thursday miscellany

by lboros on Mar 6, 2008 8:17 AM EST in News Comment 115 comments

lotta little items on my docket today, so let's get right to 'em:

here is today's gameday link. i got this from liam's blog; as he did last year, he is running a weekly list of gameday links for all spring contests --- not just cardinal games, the entire grapefruit + cactus slates. awesome resource.

derrick goold put up a long post last night about my favorite under-radar farmhand, mike parisi, who started the day game yesterday and didn't pitch bad. goold hits on the two things i've been hearing about this guy that i like, but that don't always show up in the numbers: a) he's got a big-league curveball and a fastball with sink; but more important b) he makes adjustments. parisi keeps a detailed book on the league and on himself, keeps track of what works and what doesn't; he learns from his mistakes and improves his performance over time. look how his 2007 season at triple A breaks down:

	ip	era	whip	bb/k
1st 10 starts	54	6.17	1.685	21 / 25
2d 10 starts	60.1	4.92	1.541	29 / 49
last 8 starts	50.2	3.55	1.411	15 / 37

looks like he figured some stuff out. he's made a favorable impression on dave duncan so far; it'd be a nice surprise if he's able to make a modest contribution to the big-league club in the next year or two. and a modest contribution, just to be clear, is all i've ever hoped for from parisi; i've never deluded myself that he could be a star nor even a league-average player. but i do think he's got 5th-starter potential --- and a presentable 5th starter who makes the league minimum is a very useful player. even if he merely makes himself into a josh hancock, cal edred, brad thompson type --- an inning-eating reliever who can start in a pinch --- it'd be a small triumph for the farm system. keep bendin' that curve, kid.

also making a good impression yesterday: jaime garcia, who tossed 3 shutout innings in the night game. that performance came mostly against a representative big-league lineup (to the extent florida has one of those anymore) rather than farm scrubs; among others, he retired hanley ramirez, mike jacobs, josh willingham, and jorge cantu (although the latter made good contact). in two appearances this spring, garcia has thrown 5 shutout innings and recorded 11 groundouts vs 1 flyout. there had been talk of starting him at double A this year, nursing him along slowly in the wake of last year's elbow problems, but judging from the (ridiculously) early returns maybe that's too conservative. maybe he'll be deemed ready for the memphis rotation.

will carroll posted the cards' Team Health Report over at Baseball Prospectus on tuesday. the vast majority of the cards' key players are rated either yellow (elevated injury risk) or red (high risk). the reds are glaus, isringhausen, mulder, and clement; everybody else is a yellow except izturis and ryan franklin, who are both green (normal risk). a few highlights:

wainwright: "The shift from closer to starter went pretty well for Wainwright, but last year's workload remains a massive innings jump last year. If he puts up another 200 innings, put him in the "he'll do this every year" category. The best sign is that he did not fade; in fact, he was better as the season went on."
troy glaus: "The grass should help him, as should having Tony La Russa watching his back. I'd expect Glaus to miss some time, but he's the kind of player who, like Pujols, should benefit from the maintenance work this staff can handle.
albert pujols: "He's never been healthy. Never. At least not during his major league career. That's just sick . . . . "

and here's will's answer to my question about the cards' corps of sore-winged starting pitchers:

Are any of the Cards' three arm-damaged starters (Carpenter, Mulder, and Clement) likely to come close to their former effectiveness within the next two years?

The short answer? No. Longer answer: Hahahahaha; no. Non-snarky answer: There's always a chance, but you can't count on any of them to do anything. Carpenter is the best bet, coming back from Tommy John surgery and knowing that he knows how to rehab. He should be back late in the season for a cameo and we'll see what's left then. He's got a better chance in '09, but by then he's overpaid. Mulder and Clement are low-dollar upside plays that leverage Dave Duncan's skills. It's a bit of "no harm, no foul," in that the money spent isn't stopping other spending or blocking anyone from taking a rotation slot.

can this really be true --- the phillies think 1 year / $4m is too much for kyle lohse? good god, if that's all it takes, where do i sign up? insofar as every st louis starter has either a red or yellow health rating (and / or is not a good pitcher), and durability is perhaps lohse's greatest asset . . . . long discussion at MLB Trade Rumors.

finally, the fine writer josh wilker has a nice remembrance of reggie smith.

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Barton's arm

One of the posts observing a spring training game mentioned it, and now I see it in Birdland. Barton's arm is gonna limit him to left field.

Damn.

by sdrone on Mar 6, 2008 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it

Is his arm worse than Pierre's? Damon's? Range is much more important than arm for a CF.

by mikedallas23 on Mar 6, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Today

And now, today, he's pencilled for RF...where it matters most?

I don't know why I try to make reason out of spring training. It just gives me a headache.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who knows

At least he is getting AB's, that's all that matters!

I don't get the whole is arm makes him a LF, in that I thought Barton was fast and could cover enough ground to play CF. Maybe he is not as good in center as we thought? I have not seen a live game to have any idea what type of ground Barton covers. Juan Piere can't throw and he plays CF. Juan P can definitely go get it though.

Barton is not going to beat out Duncan in LF, we need more pop than Barton can produce in LF.

by ICbirdfan on Mar 6, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

John Hadley and Mike Clairborne

on KTRS sports tonight were discussing the outfielders the Cards would go with in 08 and Barton wasn't even mentioned. Of course they are not the decision makers but they are in Jupiter looking on.
Also the general consensus among sportswriters in ST is that Barton is not major league ready as an outfielder. Hadley and Clairborne agree that Mather is ready or close to ready.

by ridgesee on Mar 6, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was one who said he had a bad arm

but I paid extra attention to him warming up today, watching him throw long toss, and I don't think that is true. His arm is at least "ok"- it's not Ankiel or even Schumaker* but imho people aren't going to be taking extra bases on barton once he settles down a bit, if he ever gets the chance to settle down. His problem so far has been that he's simply missed the cutoff man on almost every throw.

I think he's just pressing right now, hurrying and trying to do too much, then getting off balance and not putting enough on it. IMHO his range makes up for a lot, and his bat and speed is very promising. He'll catch a lot of hard-to-catch balls in CF.

* schu had a great in-game throw from LF today that would have gotten yadi killed in the regular season, but got the "out" at home...

by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

need to add

the throw from schu was high, and the runner slid and missed home plate. The catcher (think it was still yadi) just had to reach down and tag him as he tried to get back to the plate. The throw never would have got him if the runner had touched the plate the first time he tried. Not because the throw was bad (though it was a bit high), but skip just didn't get the ball in time to throw someone out from second base.

Anyway, in the regular season, that runner would have had his shoulder down and yadi would have been seeing little yellow birdies, and the ball would have been bouncing around the backstop.

by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If 1 yr./4m. is too much for Lohse,

I wonder what "offers" Weaver is staring at. Time to come in from the cold, Jeff. They should offer him the same deal as Clement and hope that one of them earns some extra money.

by vinniefromjersey on Mar 6, 2008 9:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Minor league with big incentives?

If the offers those guys are getting are under $4 million...

I wonder if they would sign a minor league contract heavily laden with incentives?

Like one of those Cardinal specials where they could make up to 6 or 8 if they get a full season of starts or something?

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 9:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Lohse on any 1 year deal

less than 10M. He's a league average pitcher and you'd have a short term commitment. I don't understand why teams aren't jumping at that.

Also as Hardcore noted in yesterday's thread, Tyler Johnson to start the season on the DL and it's being blamed on his conditioning. Ron Villone seems like a lock to make the team at this point. It'll just be a question of who gets released when Johnson is ready again (unless he has options. . .which I can't recall off the top of my head).

by azruavatar on Mar 6, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

No brainer

If the going rate for Lohse is 1/4, then sign him. It does nothing to jeopardize our 2009 FA spending binge when some bigger numbers come off the books, and it's crazy to think that Clement can give us 150 IP in 2008.

by Hungry Jack on Mar 6, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wainwright's health risks

All this talk about Wainwright's jump in innings from '06 to '07 seems to ignore the fact he started 29 games and pitched 182 innings at Memphis in 2005, leading the PCL in both categories.

His 75 innings in 2006 (not counting playoffs) was a huge drop, but he appeared in 61 games. It's not the same type of stress as starting 29, but it's still stress.

And he survived both workloads well enough to throw 202 innings in 2007 as a starter, which is only 20 more than he threw in Memphis in '05.

He's 26, turning 27 late this summer. I'm not really sure what the perceived risk is, beyond the risk to any pitcher at any level.

by Lou Schuler on Mar 6, 2008 9:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

On Mulder

Before the last game that KTRS aired, Shannon and Rooney were commenting that Mulder had a throwing session that they saw and said was an amazing difference, that he was finally throwing the way he was before his decline in Oakland and had returned to his previous ace form. I know we've heard this kind of junk before, but for some reason hearing Shannon talk about it had me convinced it might be legit. Maybe this last round of surgery did the trick?

by cloistermaximus on Mar 6, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Shannon

Well, I really really really really hope Shannon is right........ It would be a huge plus to this team to have Mulder healthy and throwing like he did in Oakland.
I would love to have Wainwright and a healthy Mulder as our #1 and #2 then add Carp midseason we would have a dangerous rotation. I dont think Mulder pitching that good is likely but I can always dream........

by Calhoun on Mar 6, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Curse of Billy Beane

Personally, I'm starting to believe that Mulder will never pitch effectively again. My belief is not based upon the severity of his injuries or any other sophisticated analysis. I just can't help noticing that none of the old Oakland A's triumverate--Mulder, Hudson or Zito--has pitched that well since leaving Oakland.

Maybe Billy Beane practices voodoo?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you had to bet

You'd go short on Mulder for one simple reason: the track record of pitchers coming off surgery for a torn cuff is dismal. A full tear means you are done. A partial tear (which I happen to have, and am facing surgery) means that you might pitch from a major league mound again, but the results are anybody's guess.

That said, I am hoping for a miracle from Mulder. It sounds like he feels very good after that second procedure.

by Hungry Jack on Mar 6, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Carpenter have two

shoulder surgeries? I think the techniques are always getting better. Still prefer a rehabbing elbow over a rehabbing shoulder, though.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Mar 6, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hudson?

Hudson might have broke that "curse" last year: 224 IP, 3.33 ERA, 16-10, 1.22 WHIP...

"It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable". Joe Garagiola

by MRCARD on Mar 6, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, and Hudson hasn't been exactly bad

before 2007 either-he just hasn't been as good as they expected. But Billy Beane has some sort of crystal ball on players he gets rid of-he seems to get out when the getting is good. Having said that, Atlanta fleeced him on the Hudson deal-none of the players the A's received have worked out.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 6, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't Oakland's park

about the most pitcher friendly in baseball? I always say trade for pitchers who pitch in hitters parks and hitters who hit in pitchers parks.

Daryl Kile and John Tudor come to mind....

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Mar 6, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

depends

It depends on where the cards are in contention for the postseason. When mulder comes back from pitching in rehab/minor league starts he should go straight to the rotation. But if the cards are out of contention by the time carp gets back, have him pitch in the bullpen and save his arm, like we did when morris came back from tommy john back in 2000.

Cardwash - Cardinal, Washington fan (Washington???? Yeah, I know)

by cardwash on Mar 7, 2008 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

staying in the race

Mulder may hold the key to the entire season. If he can pitch well enough to at least hold the fort until Carpenter comes back the Cards can at least stay in the race. If Mulder pitches poorly you have to think the Cards will be out of the race by June.

The Brewers are so much better than the Cardinals right now that it just seems so difficult for the Cardinals to compete in the NL Central without Carpenter and Mulder being at the top of their game right from the start of the season.

DYNASTY League Baseball - the leader in realism in Baseball simulation games from the designer of Pursue the Pennant.

by DYNASTYLeagueBaseballMike on Mar 9, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why has Hofpaiur

not had a start yet. Usually comes in as a late inning replacement with one at bat. I'd like to see a little more of him.

by ridgesee on Mar 6, 2008 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Because

We need to get Miles as many ABs as possible. ;)

by Ray Lankford on Mar 6, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

AB for Miles are good...

... so that there will be no doubts that he sucks, and no one will complain when he'll be DFA.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Mar 6, 2008 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Strauss Live

Had this as one of it's questions.

El Duderino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing: What's the best Cards blog out there?

Joe Strauss: Derrick Goold recommends El Vivo Birdos. Matthew League recommends "Obviously, you're not a golfer" at MLB.com. I personally don't read blogs. Goold is being falsely modest. He'd be enraged if I didn't pimp for BirdCage, er, BirdLand. Sorry, fans, there are no plans for a Joe Strauss Blog!!! We will reconsider for more Benjamins, however.

El Vivi Birdos!?! Tried to find the site, no luck. I don't think he's making to many fans here.

Saw this in the P-D story yesterday on Tyler Johnson.

"The strain, technically a slight tear, is not believed significant enough to jeopardize his season. The club will forward the MRI results to Los Angeles Angels orthopedic Lewis Yocum for a second opinion, according to general manager John Mozeliak"

Now the GM doesn't even trust his own medical staff. I'm starting to like Mo more and more. He just needs to close the deal by signing Lohse. For gods sake 4 mil is only 500k more than we are paying Izturis.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"-George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Mar 6, 2008 10:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

second opinions happen all the time

you're reading too much into that.

by azruavatar on Mar 6, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's true

but I can't remember anytime our GM made a point of making it public. I didn't hear about a second opinion on Mulder last spring. I just wonder if he is trying to reasure the public it's not just our doctors taking a look.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"-George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Mar 6, 2008 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget...

We have a different GM than last spring. Probably just a slightly different way of doing things...

by Forsch31 on Mar 6, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The second opinion is probably a way

to take some heat off of Paletta. The more times you can cite another respected physician agreeing with the team physician, the less people will resort to the ridiculous Paletta bashing.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Mar 6, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Second opinion is back

From Leach's article last night (link below):

When the initial diagnosis was reached on Tuesday, Johnson expressed great relief that he would not require surgery. Paletta emphatically reinforced that notion.

"We sent his MRIs out to Dr. [Lewis] Yocum, who reviewed them," he said. "Yocum called me this morning, and his quote was, 'What's the big deal? He's got a throwing shoulder with a little bit of a strain in the rotator cuff. His labrum looks absolutely perfect.' And Yocum said, 'I wouldn't operate on him unless you want to be the one to end his career.' "

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080305&content_id=2408095&vkey=spt20 08news&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

youneverknow

by meat on Mar 6, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

bothersome

to me that Strauss said he doesn't read blogs and said "blogs? read at your own risk." Is he so much better than, for example, Peter Gammons, who lists several blogs as "daily reads, that he can know everything about Cardinals baseball without anyone else? Or was he being sarcastic? Hard to think so if he listed El Vivo Birdos [sic] and cited Matthew League's [sic] You're not a golfer.

"There's a good possibility we may not be as bad as people think we're going to be."-- La Russa

by birdsonthebat on Mar 6, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

eh.

Don't think too much of it. Strauss just happens to be a jerk.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

I needed a new signature.

El Vivo Birdos is my favorite sports weblog.

by effin fisk on Mar 6, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have nothing against Carroll...

...but to me his assessment of the 3 rehabbing pitchers is too much based on rumors to be of any value. I say this not because I think that everything will be ok, but simply because shoulder issues are so complicate that even with examinations at hand, it can be very difficult to say anything (and vice-versa).

I really liked a lot the article on Parisi; maybe if he guy is smart and learn to use his pitches effectively, he can be more than a 5th starter type.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Mar 6, 2008 10:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

As for gameday...

Bookmark this link:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/#20080306

Hopefully Liam sees this, as it may save him some time.

by El Hombre on Mar 6, 2008 10:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Anybody notice this Duncan quote:

"He goes out there to beat you," Duncan said. "He don't[sic] go out there to pitch and have fun. He goes out there to beat you." It was in Goold's blog about Parisi. Anybody else see it as a knock against Reyes's quotes after being hit around?

by vinniefromjersey on Mar 6, 2008 11:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nah, I think

it's a boost to Parisi; Dunc's quote is a variation of Leo Durocher's old mantra, "He don't just come to play... He comes to stuff the (expletive) bat up your (expletive/anatomical reference)!"

Dunc's said some good things about Reyes this spring, too...

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Mar 6, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that was my first thought

otherwise, it's an odd choice of words

by DCGreg on Mar 6, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Carroll

While I don't disagree with his stance on the BOB's MASH unit aka pitching staff, I'd still take just about anything Carroll says with a grain of salt. I watched him talking about "injurious flaws" in the mechanics of several damaged pitchers, and I disagreed with nearly everything he said. Here is said video, and here are some of my favorites:

Rich Harden is a short-armer b/c he has an abrupt finish with his arm. That isn't even close to the definition of a short-armer. This is short-arming. It has NOTHING to do with the follow through...That's a separate issue altogether.
Liriano hurt his arm on one pitch...Never mind that pitching injuries are generally a cumulative process...And he hurt it b/c of "too much whip." Uh, hello...That is part of how velocity is generated, and its not really something the pitcher controls with his arm anyway.
Colon hurt himself b/c his elbow was too low. I mean, a hair below shoulder level is SSSOOOO low! Also, in my experience working with pitchers a long time ago as a complete amateur, it seems that if in the unlikely event you throw w/ a low elbow, it damages your elbow, not shoulder.

In this video, in five minutes he shows a misunderstanding of how a person throws a baseball, an utter lack of proper terminology, and apparent inability to see something that is plain as day. As for his analysis of the Cards, he seems to forget the fact that Wainwright's closing is a much more recent role than him starting, which he did, oh I dunno...HIS WHOLE CAREER!

I'm not some expert on injuries, not by any stretch of the imagination. But when he starts talking/writing, my B.S. detector fires up so quickly that I don't even know what to do.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Mar 6, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Will Carroll is one of the

preeminent writers on the health of baseball players in the game. He has respect from around baseball for the work that he does. Ignore him if you wish, but he's not out there just making it up.

by chuckb on Mar 6, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand that

However, this man claims to be an expert on predicting and discussing baseball injuries, and yet in a five minute video clip says about 6 different things that are wrong. I realize the kind of respect he has within the baseball community, and that I'm just some nobody who used to work with a few 10 year olds. I'm sure he could care less what rbn8206 thinks of him, and he's probably not sitting at his computer crying over what I've said about him. All that I'm saying is that I think his knowledge isn't where people think it is, at least in regard to predicting injuries and what not. Being listened to within the community isn't the same thing as being right.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Mar 6, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree

"While I don't disagree with his stance on the BOB's MASH unit aka pitching staff, I'd still take just about anything Carroll says with a grain of salt. I watched him talking about "injurious flaws" in the mechanics of several damaged pitchers, and I disagreed with nearly everything he said. Here is said video, and here are some of my favorites...I'm not some expert on injuries, not by any stretch of the imagination. But when he starts talking/writing, my B.S. detector fires up so quickly that I don't even know what to do."

I agree.

The piece you are referring to is riddled with errors.

by thepainguy on Mar 6, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Carroll

I'm not real big on Carroll either, to be honest. My real problem with his analysis in this case, though, was really his comment toward Carpenter, about him being overpaid by 2009. What the hell does that mean? How can you determine if a player is overpaid before they actually play a single game?

Let me get this straight. You think he has a good chance to be healthy and pitch effectively in 2009, yet you think he'll be overpaid, regardless of his performance? Are pitcher's salaries going to fall off of a cliff between now and then? I don't understand. Even under the structure of the extension the Cards gave Carpenter, if he pitches like Chris Carpenter, he is by no means overpaid.

Help me out here; I'm a little confused.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon RB

people predict players salaries based on aging curves and predictive statistics all the time. Tango has a thread with over 500 comments on his blog about predicting salaries. It's not hard to imagine a situation where Carroll thought Carpenter was being overpaid prior to the season.

Carpenter pitching effectively doesn't equate to dominance. And we're paying Carpenter to be dominant.

by azruavatar on Mar 6, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, fair enough.

I suppose I can understand the logic a little bit. I guess I just find it ridiculous and wrongheaded. So there.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To say nothing of the fact

that Joe Sheehan said he thought he was overpaid from the beginning (and I believe Carroll did as well). It's not too much of a stretch to say that Carp's going to be receiving much more than he's worth as soon as that extension kicks in. Add to that the fact that he'll barely have pitched in 2 years, and it's a reasonable statement to make. In fact, I'd be pretty happy if he earned 75% of his salary.

by chuckb on Mar 7, 2008 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not that I don't agree

Not that I don't agree with them, but as a long-time BP subscriber...what major top-echelon free agent and/or extension signing have they ever called a decent contract? I sometimes see they will call something decent in retrospect (like Pujols), but otherwise they pretty much bash every new one.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 7, 2008 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FSMW

The Yankees, Phillies, Mets, Indians and Dodgers have had virtually every ST game so far televised.

We have yet to have a single one.

FSMW really sucks.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 1:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agree

I have watched Cubs and Sox games, it's nice that FSN will re-air games at night since these games are played at 2 and 3 in the afternoon.

For the Cardinals "fan support" you think that a few more games would be on TV.

I checked the spring training scedule and the Cards only have about 3 on television.

by ICbirdfan on Mar 6, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Next Monday at Noon

You get your wish. Check your cable/dish guide. Then, not again until the 22nd.

youneverknow

by meat on Mar 6, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Parisi

I've been unimpressed with Parisi up til this point in his career, but I'm starting to warm up to him a little. I also couldn't agree more with you, Lb, that it would be a triumph for the system to produce a viable 5th starter type. Producing stars is what you always hope for, yes, but producing those complementary players to fill out a roster at an affordable price is just as important.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

admittedly,

i haven't thought much of parisi either. 6.03 FIP in AA, 5.17 last year. But I have seen him pitch on TV (memphis redbirds is replaying all their games for free at their site) and I think he does have big league stuff, his curve ball is very good. i think he could be at least a decent reliever. i too like that he's so eager to learn and adjust. another good article from d goold.

Amaury's birthday is uncertain because Marti does not age. Every birthday, it's just another year added to his existence, which sucks for opposing pitchers.

by erik on Mar 6, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skippy

picks up his 2nd hit and scores from 1st on a double by Mather.

2-0 Cards.

Skippy has a stolen base too (his 3rd of the spring)

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 6, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see him having a good day

Both of our runs scored at this point were scored because of his speed. He stole a base in the first to put himself in scoring position and scored from home in this one.

Nice to see.

by liam on Mar 6, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

did they give him a SB on that?

it was on a ball in the dirt that took a short hop; the catcher blocked it but it bounced away. Skip didn't start to run until the ball got away from the catcher, but it only bounced a couple of feet and the throw was awesome. Skip barely got in there, but it was a real heads up play on his part to take the base.

Anyway I would have called it a wild pitch, but it was awesome hustle on skip's part. He was really on his game today.

by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2008 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skip keeps getting on base

If he this keeps up, I think he'll land in the lead off role, thereby making him somehow indispensable to the team. (?)(!)

Meanwhile, Kennedy is heading straight into DFA land.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Anything new on Kennedy from TLR

since his comments at the winter warmup?

by sdrone on Mar 6, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If we're gonna do that

Then we need to start getting the Hoff some ABs in spring training, unless he doesn't wear his cap right or something.

by mikedallas23 on Mar 6, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoff doesn't factor in . . .

unless at least two of the group consisting of Kennedy, Izturis, and Miles get cut, right?

With TLR at the helm, I wouldn't bet against Miles. Also, I think Izturis will make the team, his limp bat notwithstanding.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Noodle arm cost a run?

Anyone listening to the game? It appears that Barton's arm could have cost us a run, a soft fly to RF scored two runners from 1st and 2nd, unless he threw to 3rd instead of home only 1 run should have scored on that.

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And now he's been pulled from the game

The noodle-arm definitely has been implicated.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That is what it makes me think too. Just doesn't seem routine for a "soft fly ball to RF" to be able to score someone from 1B, heck even if it was shallow RF Kennedy or Pujols should be able to get to it and get it to Molina before the guy on first gets all the way around.

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Set up to fail?

Just seems wierd...his arm woes have been noted, then placed in a position to fail by throwing him in RF...then penalizing him for it when his arm strength shows?

Of course, I have no idea what actually happened on the field.

The circumstances just seem a little wierd.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Test

Maybe TLR wanted to test his arm by having him in RF, not entirely sure. Since Goold is in Cards Talk I am tempted to ask him there about the play.

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ankiel in

I wonder if there was some fundamental mistake of the type that irks TLR? Ankiel is now in for Barton. Probably reading too much into gameday as Barton did hit fo himself after he came off the field.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it was a short fly ball

One run was going to score no matter what. There were men on 1st and 2nd and Barton came charging in from RF and tried to make a sliding catch. he almost had it, but the ball popped out of his glove (i think his glove hit his knee, because the ball bounced pretty far in a weird direction). FWIW it was the kind of attempt at a play that I was mad at colby for not trying to make the other day.

Anyway, because he dove and missed, two runs scored instead of one, but he put a ton of effort into it and almost got wellemeyer out of the inning unscathed. I felt bad for wellemeyer because TLR pulled him and he didn't get a chance for a win, which he deserved.

by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Schumaker can do no wrong right now

Schumaker has scored 3 runs today, 1HR, 1SB, 2 singles, man, he is having a good game.

Add to that back to back from Mather.

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Back to back to back

Schumaker, Mather, Pujols

WoW

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

back to back to back hr's

Skip, Mather, Hombre

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Mar 6, 2008 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Closer

Goold just posted on Cards Talk that Gregg (the pitcher) is potentially the Fla closer for this year and that Mather and Schumaker's were on back to back pitches.

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who's the Mather kid anway?

And what's his grudge against defenseless little baseballs?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

pronunciation question

MAY-ther or with a short A? I've heard it both ways this spring.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Mar 6, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My advice...

DON'T ask Mike Shannon. ;-)

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Mar 6, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Spiezio replacement?

Mather seems to have infield experience, and Tony just plugged him into 1B. Any chance he could be Spiezio's replacement?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

With a short A

n/t

by saladdays on Mar 6, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skip

is making a pretty good case for himself today.

by hit and run on Mar 6, 2008 2:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

just gunned out

Bozied @ the plate to end the inning.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Mar 6, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty good competition

Going on for spots in the outfield. Skip, Juan, Barton, Ludwig, Rasmus, and now Mather all are making good first impressions.

This should be interesting.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

SKIPPY!

And now he throws a runner out at home!

Sign him up!!

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 6, 2008 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Holy Crap...

and now Skippy throws out Bozied at home plate trying to score on a single.

Skip Schumaker is ON FIRE.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Mar 6, 2008 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Can we say

EN FUEGO

or does the player himself have to speak Spanish for that to apply?

"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill

by lordsummer on Mar 7, 2008 8:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rooting against Skip?

It's hard to be against a guy doing so well in trying to win a spot. Still I think we would be better without him starting for sure.

Great throw though, Mike Shannon just called Skip "the new mayor."

by enoscountry on Mar 6, 2008 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If Skip can put up a .350 obp

Then he'll deliver value to the team.

Admittedly, I'd feel better about it if we don't have offensive black holes in the middle infield.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any word on Wellemeyer?

Sucks? Doesn't suck?

by sdrone on Mar 6, 2008 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Something exciting

Some sort of runs scoring must be happening. Gameday is all sorts of confused. Must be the AA prospect game scorer in right now.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Or

...not.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eck with a GS

just saw on the ticker on ESPN under the Sox/Dodgers game that Eck hit a grand slam today.

Brings back a pretty unique memory.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 3:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Do you mean

this?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That game winning GS against the Braves?

I was at that game. That was awesome. Clinched the weekend series for us, as well.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Mar 6, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skip

Will not be denied.

Also, on the Barton play:
The impression I got from listening to the play was that it was a bloop fly ball he came in on, slid trying to catch it, and it hit his glove and bounced away from him.

I'm sure his arm didn't help matters, but it didn't sound to me like that was a real big reason. It seemed more to be just a well placed bloop hit. Especially with him sliding, I don't think he had a shot to try and hold anyone.

Just the impression that I got.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great day for Skip

On the flipside, rough outing for Brendan Ryan so far. Hope he can turn it around.

by paCardsFan on Mar 6, 2008 3:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Go away Skippy

you are playing over your head.

Ugh.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 6, 2008 3:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Curmudgeon

n/t

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skip

Either he's been playing over his head for 2 years or you can't recognize a talented player when you see one.

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 6, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 years?

Which Skip Schumaker have you been watching?

He's going to take a roster spot away from Barton and we will lose him because of it.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 6, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Skip Schumaker

that his 400 his final year of college, a 316 average in 2004, 396 last spring, and 333 last season.

The kid can hit.

I'm also a fan of Barton but there's no sense in cheering for one many to fail. May the best man win.

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 6, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus

who's to say him AND Barton can't make the team?? Ankiel and Duncan are the only locks.

Unless Rasmus starts hitting, he'll start the year in AAA.

I'd rather have Schumaker over Ludwick. He's just another power bat with no speed and too many K's. We have enough of that already in Duncan, Ankiel, and Glaus.

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 6, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Gone too

If Juan Gonzalez makes the team, Barton will be hosed, or, rather, he'll be an Indian again, which I suppose is different.

On the other hand, LaRussa could take only 11 pitchers to Opening Day in order to avoid having to lose someone. But that would just be a stalling tactic.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Mar 6, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just another power bat?

You can never have too many power bats. Ever. Ever.

by VORP is too nerdy on Mar 6, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know you are right Stltrav

Ludwick is a streak hitter that strikes out two much and I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather have Schumaker.
Besides to pull against somebody is pure "bush league" and I don't care who it offends.

by ridgesee on Mar 6, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skippy has alot of things going for him

no options - meaning Tony is will keep him rather than cut him.
club veteran - he's been around long enough that he'll be guaranteed playing time whether he has earned it or not.
the perception he can play good defense - see: Taguchi, So

Honestly, does anyone really believe this 28 year old 'scrappy' career AAAA OF is finally blossoming into that 3rd OF we need? I don't think he's even blossomed into that 4th OF we need and he's going to end up kicking one or two of these 3 off the club (Rasmus, Gonzalez, Barton).

I don't dislike Skip Schmuker but I certainly would like to see Rasmus or Barton get his playing time, that's for sure.

I thought the whole point of calling him up last summer was to increase his potential trade value?

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 6, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Skip is a good defensive OF

i don't think it's fair to downplay his skills by saying he's "perceived" to be. he is quite good. Not great, by any means, but he's quite good.

His big problem is that he doesn't hit for power, and won't hit for power, and as you've said, his batting is highly BABIP dependent and is unlikely to continue. When his BABIP falls to earth he'll hit 280ish at best with few home runs and few walks, which is just not that valuable.

by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hardcore

"I thought the whole point of calling him up last summer was to increase his potential trade value." I never heard that. Where you get all this valuable inside information? Quote you source for our benefit.

by ridgesee on Mar 7, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Go back and search when he was called up

last year when Edmonds hit the DL. It was implied.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 7, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks,

that makes it clear as mud.

by ridgesee on Mar 7, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can never have enough power...

On the other hand, Skippy is basically Aaron Miles of the Outfield. Hits for average, but has no power and doesn't walk much and has no speed (Ludwick actually stole 4 bases last year, compared to Skippy's 1, and both had the same lousy SB% percentage).

All things equal, I'd go with Ludwick, if only because he has power and takes a walk. His plate discipline got better the more he played, too.

by DiscoJer on Mar 7, 2008 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sample size

The point is that in his ML career, he hasn't put up the numbers to start. He's been serviceable as a fifth outfielder.

I don't think anyone's rooting against him, it's just unfortunate timing considering Barton's upside and the fact that Skip could make us lose that. A handful of early spring games is no reason to give Skippy a spot over a talented player like Barton.

That said, if Barton plays his way off the team, you can't really blame Skip.

The only thing that worries me is that Barton may not get a fair shake with Tony at the helm.

by arch support on Mar 6, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just dont get it either.

Why in the world would ANY Cards fan root against any player with the BOB? What's the point? We are Cardinals fans, aren't we? It seems like we are becoming a bit snooty with our roster preferences and our prospect addiction.

Hey, if Juangone can hit this year, why not play him? If Skippy proves to be the obp guy we lack at the top of the order, great! He playes excellent outfield defense, and I echo stltrav on this one. We really don't need any more strikeout-prone power hitters in our lineup.

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Mar 6, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Your logic

is a little bit off there.

We all love the team, and want to see the team succeed.

We love the players on the team. By rooting for them to succeed, we see the team succeed.

However, we also want what's going to be best for the team overall. That means occasionally taking a longer look at things, rather than just, "hey, the guy's hitting right now, who cares what happens down the road?"

Thus, you occasionally find yourself rooting against a player or players when you think that their success is not what's best for the team.

If one of your teenage children is dating a person you consider to be terrible for them, you could very well find yourself hoping that this person cheats on your son or daughter, or otherwise treats them poorly enough that you child will wise up and dump them.

Now, if that happens, your child will be unhappy, perhaps extremely so, in the short run, and you would never hope for that, would you? Yet, in the long run, they will be much better off without this other individual in their life. Thus, hoping for something that hurts you son or daughter in the short term is still hoping for the best for them in his or her life.

I don't have to root for every player who puts on the uniform if I don't think that player is good for the team.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not rooting against anyone, BUT...

I am far more invested in making the correct long term decisions compared to practically irrelevant 1 choices.

Personally, I think Hardcore's animosity may be a little misplaced. The real "villian" here (if there is such a thing) is Juan Gonzalez.

Skippy has value as a 4th or 5th outfielder (depending upon whether you put more credence in his MiLB stats or his smaller MLB dataset). Similarly, Barton clearly has several tools (OBP, speed, good average, decent power), and could realistically provide a similar important team role as the 3rd-5th outfielder, depending upon how he performs when given his first crack at major league pitchers.

JuanGone, on the other hand, is an old, more expensive, 1-year veteran who may indeed hit well this year, but offers nothing for the club down the road and is a huge defensive liability. Meanwhile, both Skippy AND Barton are superior defenders and could offer several years of very useful and potentially more valuable service at or near league minimums.

Which set of outfielders would you rather have this season when considering the LONG TERM benefit of your team:

Rasmus, Duncan, Ankiel, Barton, Schumaker/Ludwick
Rasmus, Duncan, Ankiel, Gonzalez, Schumaker/Ludwick

Personally, I'd prefer to see this on opening day:

3) Duncan/Barton (almost an ideal LF platoon), Ankiel (CF), Ludwick (RF), Schumaker (reserve)

Then, when one of those 5 inevitably gets injured at some point during the season, you bring up Rasmus.

If we keep Juan, we (by definition) lose one of the more promising/inexpensive younger players for a pointless 1 year gig with Gonzo that does NOT suddenly make us a contender this year, does NOT increase our ability to develop/evaluate younger talent this year, and does NOT help us at all in 2009+. In fact, it HURTS us long term.

So I have no problem rooting for Skippy. And Barton. And Luddy. But I'm definitely not rooting FOR Juan. He's quite simply a terrible fit for the ballclub if we really are rebuilding.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Mar 6, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"if we really are rebuilding."

Does anyone know if we're rebuilding yet? This limbo / purgatory thing is making my tummy hurt.

by azruavatar on Mar 6, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

recollection

sorry i can't recall when, but seems luhnow or mo commented on veb last year that parisi was one to watch in terms of coming in under the radar. hope he keeps coming.

by sportsman on Mar 6, 2008 6:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

noah lowry

surprised the cards didnt get him since he's due to have wrist surgery now. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3280522

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Mar 6, 2008 9:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If Schumaker has a hot spring

Does he turn into intriguing trade bait? Maybe send him to a team who needs outfield help for a young pitcher?

I guess I'm saying his value is only going up right now, but based on past performance, it might be a good idea to cash in when his value is highest. What do you guys think?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country

by Mr Redbird on Mar 6, 2008 10:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs