20-20 hindsight

by lboros on Feb 19, 2008 10:08 AM EST in News

no tournament update today; off-day for both series. we resume tomorrow.

here's an exercise in second-guessing: knowing what we now know about the prices that various free agents went for, which ones would you have signed for the cardinals this off-season?

the cards spent a total of $24.3m in guaranteed money this winter on free agents and option-year players:

picked up izzy's option for $8m
signed pineiro to a two-year deal that pays $5m this year
re-signed springer for $3.5m
signed cesar izturis for $2.9
signed matt clement for $1.8m, with up to $5.2m in performance bonuses and an optional 2d yr
re-signed miles for $1.4m
signed larue for $850K

so here is the challenge: if you were starting the off-season over again, and you had $24.3m to spend to fill the holes on the st louis roster that existed when the off-season began, and you could get any free agent for the same money that he signed for elsewhere --- how would you have spent the money?

before we go on, some qualifications and clarifications &c &c. in addition to the above-named moves, the cardinals also tendered contracts to wellemeyer and ankiel (and signed them for $1m each), and they extended molina for four years, paying him $1.2m this season. these could all be considered discretionary expenditures --- the team had the option of nontendering any of these players and spending the money elsewhere --- but i'm leaving those out of this little game. they needlessly complicate the issue; those were no-brainer moves with low dollar amounts. so those signings are assumed; you don't get to change them.

you also don't get to make make-believe trades --- you're not allowed to stick erik bedard or miguel cabrera or dan haren on your roster and subtract colby rasmus. nor do you get to undo the deals that were actually made --- ie rolen, edmonds. you do, however, get to promote players from within the organization. if you want to name brendan ryan as your starting shortstop, colby rasmus as your starting centerfielder, and mitchell boggs as your number 5 starter, be my guest. for the sake of simplicity, i'm also going to assume the rule V pickup of brian barton for this exercise; consider him an "internal resource."

i should add that i consider this a value-neutral exercise. i'm not intending to criticize the moves the front office actually made, nor am i suggesting they should have foreseen the rather low prices that a lot of players went for. this is just a way to pass the time, ok? if you want a complete list of all the available free agents, go here. (that list does include traded players, by the way, but you still don't get to use them.) if you know where a guy signed but you don't know what he signed for, you can look him up by his team at Cot's Contracts. here's one way to spend the $22.5m:

1 yr / $8m for izzy
1 yr / $5m for milton bradley
1 yr / $3.5m for jon lieber
1 yr / $1.8m for josh towers
1 yr / $1.8m for matt clement (with optional 2d year)
1 yr / $850K for jason la rue

my everyday lineup is

bradley
duncan
pujols
glaus
ankiel
molina
ryan
pitcher
kennedy

the rotation's wainwright, lieber, looper, towers, and reyes, with mulder clement and carpenter on rehab and thompson / wellemeyer plus the minor-leaguers for depth. the use of bradley in the leadoff position might be considered a bit novel, but he's a logical fit --- good on-base skills, good speed. he has 300 or so plate appearances in that slot over his career; gotta be creative. to me, that's a competitive team (in the nl central) for 2008, and it affords plenty of opportunity for young players to establish themselves for 2009 and beyond. there are no backup infielders on my team; i'm assuming those would come from the d'angelo jimenez / royce clayton talent pool.

i was tempted to bring back eckstein at $4.5m for one last year as the leadoff man, but the defense killed it for me. i also think pineiro is a good deal for 2008 only, but i never liked the 2d year on his deal --- and i like it less now that we see what the market for pitchers has been.

have at it, ladies and gents.

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Comments

Izturis

You forgot about Izturis in your list of who they signed.

by StLHugo on Feb 19, 2008 10:12 AM EST 0 recs

you're right

my bad --- i better correct that.

by lboros on Feb 19, 2008 10:41 AM EST up 0 recs

Can I save

some cash and spend it in the draft. Or better yet, can we go back to the last draft?

OK, I would sign Bradley if I could pretend like I traded Duncan, but I guess that's against the rules. So the first signing is Everett. Then Josh Towers. Izzy can come back. So, there's $11.2 million spent.

Maybe Mark Hendrickson and call it a day. Oh, yeah. LaRue too. Why not.

$13.5 million. I'd just pocket the rest.

by plh903 on Feb 19, 2008 10:31 AM EST 0 recs

I had a dream

where the site had gone through the updates like the A's site. I guess that hasn't happened yet.

by saladdays on Feb 19, 2008 10:33 AM EST 0 recs

If I eliminate

Springer and Miles can I replace them with Livan Hernandez? I go .1 over what they spent?

On a side note, where is Joe Strauss? Canceled last Wednesday's chat and I haven't seen his name since- no longer on the P-D's website. Anyone have any info.?

by vinniefromjersey on Feb 19, 2008 11:04 AM EST 0 recs

A death in the family

I believe his father passed away.

by boredatwork on Feb 19, 2008 11:06 AM EST up 0 recs

I have been looking at it

And for the most part, I think I would stick with what you did lboros. I might be interested in Durbin who signed with Philly for 900,000 instead of Clement. Especially since we have seen that Clement isn't healthy.

by JBagKY on Feb 19, 2008 11:10 AM EST 0 recs

How would I do it?

1 yr / $8m for izzy
1 yr / $4m for kenny lofton
1 yr / $5m for livan hernandez
1 yr / $2.8m for adam everett
1 yr / $1.25m for johnny estrada
1 yr / $4m for jeff weaver

$25.05m

Lineup
Lofton
Ankiel
Pujols
Glaus
Duncan
Molina
Everett
Pitcher
Kennedy

Bench
Speezer
Estrada
Barton
Ryan
Ludwick

Opening Day Rotation
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
Livan
Weaver

With Reyes replacing Looper if you can find someone to trade with you.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 19, 2008 11:17 AM EST 0 recs

Ok I have to ask

Kenny Lofton? Seriously? And $4m for him?

by sdrone on Feb 19, 2008 11:35 AM EST up 0 recs

Yes

I'd rather have Lofton than Bradley. Bradley got $5 M, Lofton got $6 M last year, $3.875 in 2006. $4M seems reasonable.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 19, 2008 11:46 AM EST up 0 recs

+1

Does everyone really think Bradley is going to be ready for opening day? I'm in pretty good shape and had ACL surgery in October, about 3 weeks after Bradley did. My expected 100% date is sometime in May or June, and that's if things go perfectly and there aren't any setbacks. I don't think I'd be in MLB shape at that point either, so figure Bradley to be at 100% sometime in June - 2 full weeks into the season. Kenny Lofton leading off on opening day and manning CF? I'd take that for a $1 million less too...

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 19, 2008 6:16 PM EST up 0 recs

Lofton

I'd rather have Lofton than Bradley too. Plus, we could probably get him cheaper than $4mil.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 19, 2008 11:38 AM EST up 0 recs

Well.......

I would pretty much stick with what you did Lb those are some solid moves.
Though I am iffy on Bradley leading off....
I would have Ryan leadoff and put Bradley in the 5-spot he is a good hitter to have in the middle of the lineup.

By the way I just checked out Athletics Nations new site IT ROCKS I cant wait until we get a new one!!!!!!

by Calhoun on Feb 19, 2008 11:41 AM EST 0 recs

Sing A-rod and call it a day.

Just kidding

heres what id do

pick up izzy's option= 8m

sign livan ,jennings and lieber = 12.5m

sign eckstein = 4.5m

sign la rue= 850k

$25.850M

opening day line up

eckstein
rasmus
pujols
duncan
glaus
ankiel
molina
pitcher/kennedy
kennedy/pitcher

----------

rotation:

wainright
livan
lieber
jennings
reyes

----------
bullpen: bench:
izzy ludwick
franklin ryan
tyler barton
randy spiezio
looper larue
wellemeyer
thompson
----------------------------------------
looks like a solid team to me

by samael88 on Feb 19, 2008 11:42 AM EST 0 recs

Why "Just kidding"?

I'm not saying it would really have been a good idea to pursue A-Rod -- for one thing, it would have been impossible to sign him without overpaying ridiculously for his decline phase five years from now -- but still, just suppose you snag him for almost all that $24+M, keeping just enough to sign LaRue as a backup, and then take your chances on what's in the system plus some dumpster diving. Assume furthermore that he can still play short, which I think is reasonable; to this day, many observers think he'd be a better defensive shortstop than the guy the Yankees actually have there. Then you get something that looks like:

CF: Barton
LF: Duncan
1B: El Hombre
SS: A-Rod
3B: Glaus
RF: Ankiel
C: Molina
P: whoever
2B: Kennedy

That is a scary starting lineup, even with Kennedy at the bottom. As for the rest:

SP: WW, Looper, Wellemeyer, Reyes, and either Boggs or Parisi until Mulder is healthy again (if ever), or just scavenge the waiver bin -- heck, even Steve Trachsel recently signed a minor-league contract...
RP: Franklin (closer to start with), Perez (closer by mid-season), Johnson, Flores, Thompson, Worrell, Hawksworth (or Villone or some other nonentity from the waiver pile)
Bench: LaRue, Hoffpauir, Spiezio, Ludwick, Ryan

-- And that's without even starting the clock on the Rasmus-o-meter. It is also not looking too carefully at what's available from waivers. There would have been plenty of cheap talent via that route to fill out the bullpen; there always is.

The Baseball Prospectus guys point out that the Cardinals dominated the first part of this decade with a studs-and-scrubs approach to roster construction. It would still work today (in principle, again, I don't really advocate paying the GNP for A-Rod except as a paper exercise), and more convincingly, since there is starting to be enough talent in the minors to fill the scrubs roles cheaply and painlessly.

by StanTheManFan on Feb 20, 2008 12:01 AM EST up 0 recs

But samael.....

Its your imaginary team but dont you think that would be rushing Rasmus? I think he needs half the season or a full season at triple-A dont you?

by Calhoun on Feb 19, 2008 11:52 AM EST 0 recs

yeah that was the only thing

i was having trouble with

i guess id put ankiel in center let ludwick and barton split the at bats, maybe call up cody heather?

by samael88 on Feb 19, 2008 11:55 AM EST 0 recs

now...

thats an idea...

by Calhoun on Feb 19, 2008 12:08 PM EST 0 recs

"reply to this"

please, learn to use it!

by silent_bob on Feb 19, 2008 12:12 PM EST up 0 recs

happy!?

;)

by samael88 on Feb 19, 2008 12:21 PM EST up 0 recs

Question

Would someone like Fukudome be allowed? He only gets paid $6m next year but the total contract value is $48 mile.

by sdangler on Feb 19, 2008 12:23 PM EST 0 recs

I don't know the answer to your question but

the thought of Harry Carey still being around and BRUTALLY mispronouncing his name brings me great joy! Can't you just hear him now???!!!

mattnj

by mattnj on Feb 19, 2008 1:39 PM EST up 0 recs

Two words for you

Ron

Santo.

I'll be listening to more Cubs broadcasts this year. No doubt about it.

by sdrone on Feb 19, 2008 2:42 PM EST up 0 recs

Fukudome

He got a $4 million signing bonus as well, so I think using him as a $10 million player for this year would be fair for this little reindeer game.

by mikedallas23 on Feb 19, 2008 2:50 PM EST up 0 recs

Cubs lawsuit

I thought this was interesting -- the Cubs are suing the owner of two Sheffield Ave. rooftop clubs because he hasn't abided by the revenue sharing agreement he had with the club. Here's a link to the Post Dispatch:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/E662A6760B2DB732862573F40046160 5?OpenDocument

I thought it was interesting that the Cubs say they'll block his view of the field if he does not comply. My thought: how? Build a wall or curtain above the outer stadium wall? Won't that look weird?

by Ray Lankford on Feb 19, 2008 12:49 PM EST 0 recs

They could...

Juan Gonzalez actually doesn't know the meaning of the word "retirement."

by Alxfritz on Feb 19, 2008 1:04 PM EST up 0 recs

They'll use ivy

Construct a giant latticework and get lots and lots of ivy. Either that or a really big FOR SALE sign.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Feb 19, 2008 1:06 PM EST up 0 recs

They've had this issue before

I believe one of the things they considered before the rooftop owners gave in were large billboards.

by sdrone on Feb 19, 2008 1:10 PM EST up 0 recs

HA

Wouldnt it be great if the bar owners just built larger seating platforms or bleachers or something?

by jealousblues on Feb 19, 2008 7:49 PM EST up 0 recs

Please enter a subject for your comment.

1 yr / $10m for Bonds
1 yr / $5m for Milton Bradley
1 yr / $3.5m for jon lieber
1 yr / $500K for Jack Cassell
1 yr / $1.8m for matt clement (with optional 2d year)
1 yr / $850K for jason la rue

=~ $22M

I'm probably the only one that would want Cassell but I like his sinkerball repertoire and his price. Bonds would actually make the lineup respectable and add a dangerous bat off the bench in Duncan. I'm not enamored with the idea of Hoffpauir as the backup SS although he's likely no worse than Miles. Worst case if Ryan goes down, you call up someone from AAA. The rotation is still suspect but not anyworse, imo, than what we're facing now.

RF - Bradley
SS - Ryan
1b - Pujols
LF - Bonds
3B - Glaus
CF - Ankiel
C - Molina
2b - Kennedy/Hoffpauir

S - Wainwright
S - Looper
S - Cassell
S - Reyes
S - Lieber

DL - Carpenter, Mulder, Clement

Bench - Duncan, Barton, La Rue, Hoffpauir, Spiezio

CL - Perez
Relief - Some mish-mash of prospects (Worrell, Motte, Castellanos, etc.)

by azruavatar on Feb 19, 2008 1:13 PM EST 0 recs

How the hell did I forget Everett

Ditch Clement and sign Everett instead. As much as I b###hed about the Cardinals missing that signing and then I go and miss it.

by azruavatar on Feb 19, 2008 2:46 PM EST up 0 recs

Bonds

You really think Barry and Barry's ego are going to accept a paltry $10 million? Add another $5 to that and then we can begin talking -- he made $15 million last year to put up ok numbers, shitty defense, and play in 111 games. Then add another $5 million for pain and suffering of everyone else in the clubhouse having to deal with his sullen attitude and constant media circus. Would he pull a Karl Malone and show up in St. Louis knowing he's not the alpha dog on the team (that's Albert) and just do what was asked of him, get along with teammates, and just do his job, which is to hit behind Pujols? Nice to imagine, but I totally doubt it, so why trade one soap opera (Rolen) for another one that already has two years worth of legs behind it? I'd rather see what Duncan can do over a full year that see him coming off the bench. I don't think it's out of hat to think that Duncan could match Barry's HR, RBI, and R production over a full season. Couple that with the combustible Milton Bradley and you have a potential steel-cage death match on your hands by the middle of June.

Other than those two guys, I like your other moves. Lieber is solid; I, too, like Jack Cassell, and his repertoire seems to fit the Duncan mold of successful pitchers. I'd have probably skipped on Clement and ponied up for Piniero simply because he could jump into the rotation instead of Reyes, and you have a decent idea of what you'll get from him while you have no idea what you'll get out of Clement.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 19, 2008 6:33 PM EST up 0 recs

I think you could sign Bonds for

chump change right now. There's no other team that's shown an inkling of interest. I could be off-base there but that's my impression. While I don't know what the clubhouse situation would be like, I don't think it would be a media circus since STL generally has a docile media.

Still for the chance to inject an OBP north of .400 with decent power, I'd risk all that. He's a better offensive player than Duncan and no worse defensively. If the Cardinals wanted to win, Bonds would be a significant upgrade for the outfield. I don't know what makes you think Duncan could even approach Bonds' line. ZiPS projects a .256/.456/.518 for Barry and a .262/.346/.472 for Duncan. Duncan would need to make huge strides forward and Bonds would have to literally collapse as a hitter. While the latter isn't out of the question, I don't think it's the most likely scenario.

by azruavatar on Feb 19, 2008 7:07 PM EST up 0 recs

I think...

He'd rather stay home than play for a team that won't be picked to win anything for $10 million a year. He's going to be fighting to stay out of jail over the next 18 months and has nothing left to prove in a city that doesn't adore him like the Bay Area. The Cardinals aren't projected to win a World Series, and likely won't with the pitching they have. A ring is literally the only thing Barry is missing on his resume.

I didn't say that Duncan could approach his rate stats, although I believe that PECOTA has them rated much closer than ZIPS. Although when looking at he ZIPS projections, if Barry hits .256 I don't see his OBP maintaining that .456 clip. He's simply not going to be walked that much if he was hitting in the Cardinal lineup. One reason he posted a .480 last year is that there wasn't any reason to pitch to him in the middle of that Giant lineup, and you probably wouldn't have to face him in the late innings as he was pulled quite a bit for a defensive replacement.

I did say that with a full healthy season under his belt, Duncan could probably match Barry in HR, RBI, and R at a fraction of the cost. He'll never match Bonds in OBP, but I think Duncan could post a number around .360 which would look pretty good with a .275 average and 30+ taters. Lets assume Duncan is bullish on his ZIPS projection this year and posts a .275/.360/.500 line -- which considering his healthy splits the last couple of years isn't totally out of the question. Would you then still spend the money on Barry even though he's only play 120 games or so, cost 10X as much, and bring a media circus to St. Louis? You also then wouldn't know what kind of player you have in Duncan if you want to move him, and for what, one late career sub-par season from Barry Bonds? It just doesn't seem worth it, IMO.

BTW...I'm making an ultimatum:

If they sign Bonds they must trade for Bradley...has anyone ever been killed or decapitated in a locker-room confrontation before?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 20, 2008 1:26 AM EST up 0 recs

I do not know exactly

what I would have done differently (Lieber instead of.. or in addition to Clement maybe) but I know what I wouldn't have done and that is sign no Loftons, Bradleys, no Ecksteins. As much as I liked Eckstein for what he did for the Cards, his defense is gone..shot.

by ridgesee on Feb 19, 2008 1:45 PM EST 0 recs

PS

sign nobody named Bonds..unless it's James Bonds for the Security Dept.

by ridgesee on Feb 19, 2008 10:39 PM EST up 0 recs

Speaking of the Cubs

as good as their pitching was last year, it's interesting to think that it WON'T be near as good this year. Unless of course, Lilly has another career year and one of the 4 competing for the final 2 spots are anything more than laughable.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 19, 2008 2:05 PM EST 0 recs

New Lineup

Buyout Izzy
Sign Larue
Sign Pineiro
Sign Clement
Sign Andruw Jones (9 million this year)
Sign Towers
Sign Eckstein

Lineup
Eckstein
Ankiel
Pujols
Jones
Duncan
Glaus
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher

Rotation
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
Clement/Towers
Reyes

Bullpen
Johnson
Flores
Franklin
Wellemeyer
Thompson
Perez Closing

Bench
Larue
2 of following 3
Schumaker/Ludwick/Barton
Ryan
Spiezio/Phelps

I hate Andruw Jones, but for 9 million, he adds a lot to the lineup and defense. It also allows Rasmus to develop as needed, and when he is ready, allows us to have a surplus that could be potential trade bait.

by Jumsy on Feb 19, 2008 2:13 PM EST 0 recs

All right, let's see...

I'll sign:

Jack Cassel- 500k
Mark Prior- 1.5m
Jon Lieber- 3.5
Pick up Izzy- 8m

13.5m

Adam Everett- 2.8
Johnny Estrada- 1.25

Total-17.5m

Everett starts at short, Kennedy at second, Ryan is my backup MI; substitute Jimenez/ Hoffpauir/ whoever if you like. Estrada backs up Yadi and gives AP the occasional day off.

I throw all the pitchers into a big bowl and see what happens. My bullpen will be suitably filled out by the emerging talent pool. God knows the pen is one place there's some depth.

The rest of the money, some seven million dollars, I earmark for the 2008 draft. I take a home run swing in each of the first three rounds, and several more on the second day, buying out college commitments left and right.

Before anyone even says that's not the way teams budget for the draft, save your breath. One, there's absolutely no reaon why it can't be done that way, and two, I have an example of a team doing exactly that, and it's actually one we know pretty well.

In 2004, the Colorado Rockies used 900k dollars that they were able to free up by dealing Larry Walker to the Cardinals to sign Dexter Fowler, a high school outfielder, to a contract. A canny use of financial resources, in my book.

Source: Baseball America Prospect Handbook, 2006. I would post a link, but I have no idea where it would be on their website, and I honestly don't have the time at the moment to track it down.

And that's how I would have spent my winter vacation.

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Feb 19, 2008 2:16 PM EST 0 recs

Here we go...

Here how I would spend 23 mil.

Guardado 2 mil
Pineiro - 5 mil
Affeldt - 3.5 mil
LaRue -850k
Izturis -2.9 mil
Glavine-8 mil

Lineup

RF-Barton/Schumacher
CF-Ankiel
1B Pujols
LF-Duncan
3B-Glaus
C-Molina
2B-Kennedy
Pitcher
SS-Izturis/Ryan

Rotation

Wainwright
Glavine
Looper
Pineiro
Reyes

Closer Guardado/Affeldt

by cardzfan52 on Feb 19, 2008 2:43 PM EST 0 recs

affeldt???

I think 3.5 is WAYYYYY too much for affeldt. Got to see him a good deal last year living in CO and was less than impressed.....

by cdb on Feb 19, 2008 3:32 PM EST up 0 recs

Subject!

1 yr / $8m for Tom Glavine
1 yr / $5m for Livan Hernadez
1 yr / $850K for Jason La Rue
1 yr / $8m for Izzy

Lineup

1. Rasmus
2. Ankiel
3. Pujols
4. Duncan
5. Glaus
6. Molina
7. Kennedy
8. pitcher
9. Ryan

Bench: La Rue, Spiezio, Hoffpauir, Barton, Schumaker

Rotation:
Wainwright
Glavine
Hernandez
Looper
Pinerio

Same bullpen

Juan Gonzalez actually doesn't know the meaning of the word "retirement."

by Alxfritz on Feb 19, 2008 3:07 PM EST 0 recs

kevin mench!

i would have signed kevin mench. he got a minor league deal from the rangers and gets $600k if he makes the team. he would be a platoon player vs. lefties.

i would have gone with everett over izturis. neither one can hit but everett is the better glove man.

good bye aaron miles. i like the guy but his usefulness has come to an end.

in lieu of russ springer i would go with either jeremy affeldt or jon lieber. affeldt is a swingman that could start or relieve. lieber is more proven as a starter. i kind of like the idea of affeldt because with clement, mulder and carp hurting and reyes being uncertain i think it is nice to have a guy that you can put into the rotation or pull out without much notice. i think affeldt could handle that role. lieber, livan and those types seem like permanent rotation guys. i cant imagine them being too useful out of the pen.

i would probably stick with pineiro, even though i would much rather the second year be an option. i would also stick with clement even knowing he isnt quite ready.

keep izzy.

larue or whoever at $850M.

other minor league deals: chin-hui tsao, jorge julio

reyes, thompson, wellemeyer and affeldt/lieber are in a battle royale for rotation spots. losers go the pen or AAA if they have options.

leadoff is going to be ugly. there really arent any 'traditional' options with my roster configuration. it would just come down to who is playing well. maybe it is kennedy vs. righties. maybe it is brendan ryan or d'angelo jiminez after they beat out kennedy for a starting job. maybe barton finds his way into the mix. maybe you just go with some 'danger' and put kevin mench and his .305/.361/.563 line vs. lefties in the leadoff spot.

by dmb60614 on Feb 19, 2008 3:27 PM EST 0 recs

My lineup

1-Ryan SS
2-Ludwick RF
3-Pujols 1B
4-Duncan LF
5-Glauss 3B
6-Ankiel CF
7-Iguchi* 2B 1yr. $3.85M
8-Molina C
9-Pitcher

C    Larue
OF    Barton
IF    Everett*1yr. $2.8M Brendan Ryan Insurance
IF    Hoff/Kennedy
IF/OF    Speezio

SP    Wainwright
SP    Looper
SP    Towers*    1yr. $1.8M
SP    Reyes
SP    Garcia/Boggs/Weaver* 1yr. $2.0M

CL    Isringhausen
SU    Perez
LHP    Johnson
LHP    Flores
MR    Franklin
MR    Thompson
Swing    Wellemeyer

**No Springer
**Include whoever is needed more at the time, Skip or Thomspon.
**If Kennedy does not come back to form during ST, cut bait. If not, he is a serviceable backup. His salary should be viewed as a sunk cost.
**Sign Weaver to battle it out with Garcia and Boggs for #5 spot. If he doesn't have it out of ST, either have him take Thompson's spot long enough for Duncan to work with him or DFA.
**Tad Iguchi at 2b. We don't need an offensive black hole there again this year.

by omreb on Feb 19, 2008 3:52 PM EST 0 recs

All over 40 yrs. old

Lofton - $3 mil
Alou - $7.5 mil
Gonzo - $2 mil
Rogers - $8 mil
Wakefield - $4 mil

$24.5 but I think Lofton and Gonzo will come cheaper.

Lofton
Duncan
Pujols
Alou
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher

Gonzo filling in for Lofton and Alou
Wainright, Rogers, Wakefield, Looper, Reyes
No established closer

Mulder and Carpenter on rehab.

by lerwin1 on Feb 19, 2008 4:03 PM EST 0 recs

From what I've seen...

Everyone seems to like the Larue signing... and everyone is done with Miles.

by Jumsy on Feb 19, 2008 4:19 PM EST 0 recs

Hardcore Legend

not sure if you seen it or not but THe series 5 Eck Chase is in a Red Sox uni

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2008 4:22 PM EST 0 recs

I would pick up Izzy & Clement...

But spent the rest of the money on signing Hiroki Kuroda.

Better to take a gamble on a pitcher who might be really good for $13 million a year or so, than spend it on replacement level players (or below replacement level players, as in Miles and Izturis's case)

by DiscoJer on Feb 19, 2008 5:29 PM EST 0 recs

I would have

spent 23 mil this way:
-Pick up Izzy's option for 8.
-Bradley for 5m
-Towers for 1.5m
-Everett for 2m
-Pinero for 1.5m
-Lieber for 3m
-Larue for 1m

Lineup:
Bradley - CF
Kennedy - 2B (at least to start, if he fails DFA the bastard and put Dunc in the 2hole)
Pujols - 1B
Glaus - 3B
Ankiel- RF
Duncan - LF
Molina - C
Everett - SS
Pitcher

Bench would be Ryan, Rasmus, Spiezio, Barten,Larue
Starters (in no particular order)
Wagonmaker, Reyes, Towers, Lieber, and Pinero
Pen: Looper, Franklin, Izzy, Pinero, Thompson, TJ, Flores/Wellemeyer

I like Everett's glove much more than Izturis. My problem is that there is only one really good hitter in this lineup (AP) and the 2hole needs to be a high contact guy. I think Kennedy, if he's ready, could be that guy. I also like the power farther down the lineup - I played with Molina batting 6th, but he's better protection for Dunc than vice versa.

That's why I was against the Rolen trade - he fit that 2hole so well.

The staff is weak, but gives options with Loop back in the pen and Mulder and Carp nursing injuries.

The glaring weakness of this lineup, and the current Cards lineup is that they are lacking the pure hitter who, when in front of Albert or even behind him, gives you two potential innings out of three. An inning of Glaus, Ank and Dunc is ok - but not like the Brewers or the Cubs.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Feb 19, 2008 6:35 PM EST 0 recs

on your bench

Having Rasmus on your bench is not an option. He will play wherever he is. If you don't start him on the big club, send him to AAA to continue progress.

by Jumsy on Feb 20, 2008 9:05 AM EST up 0 recs

Mo did a pretty good job

I love this sort of GM exercise. I went over the list of signed FA's and really can't smash any of Mo's moves. He added some potential (Clement & Glaus), cut some dead weight and did nothing to harm the future. I would love an impact player, but none were available. I would still like to see the team explore the idea of dealing for a plus bat at SS or OF. Perhaps not signing Izturis (sp?) and replacing him with Uribe would have added enough O to offset the difference in D.

by fip24 on Feb 19, 2008 11:24 PM EST 0 recs

how i would spend the money

How about using the money and buying the Marlins outright?
I mean didn't Baseball Prospectus predict them to win more games?

by kodiakduncs on Feb 20, 2008 12:44 AM EST 0 recs

adam everett?? gimme a break

so people complain about the cards signing cesar izturis for 1.8 million, and alot of you answer that by signing adam everett, who is worse with the stick than izturis, 3 years older, and for more money?? most other moves you all suggest i'm fine with, but i'm completely baffled w/ giving everett 2.8 mil and bitching about izturis getting 1.8 mil.

by bigJOE1 on Feb 20, 2008 1:43 AM EST 0 recs

Everett can field, though...

Izturis is a horrible hitter and mediocre fielder. Everett is just as bad as Izturis as a hitter, but is an excellent fielder.

I don't think he's worth the money either, but he's better than Izturis, IMHO.

by DiscoJer on Feb 20, 2008 5:54 AM EST up 0 recs

Gold Glove = Mediocre now

So I guess being a Gold Glove winner in the same league as Everett doesn't make any difference then?

So I agree the only reason to sign Everett over Izturis is that Everett has been playing as a starter the last few years while Izturis has been used in a utility role. Why sign either of them though? That is my question.

by StLHugo on Feb 20, 2008 7:50 AM EST up 0 recs

izturis/everett

not a great hitter, yes, but better than everett. and izturis isn't mediocre w/ the glove. his fielding percentage is about the same as everett's, and he's 3 years younger.

i think izturis, after getting regular playing time, will be adequate at SS this year. he's been traded to teams the past couple of seasons that already had a starter in place (cubs w/ cedeno, and pirates w/ wilson). he's not gonna be on anyone's MVP ballot or anything, but i think he'll hit .270-.280 to go along w/ the solid defense he has always provided.

by bigJOE1 on Feb 21, 2008 2:40 AM EST up 0 recs

no offense intended

but you don't understand defense if you think izturis will approach everett. (BTW, fielding percentage is a worthless stat.)

Everett is worth upwards of 30-40 runs with the glove. Assuming that Izturis is worth about 10 and is 10 runs better with the bat (both somewhat generous predictions) Everett is still 10-20 runs better.

by azruavatar on Feb 21, 2008 1:06 PM EST up 0 recs

no offense taken

i don't know you and you don't know me. but i do understand the importance of defense. being in STL and not having Extra Innings, i don't get to watch Everett except when he plays us. I've always thought izturis was pretty dependable w/ the glove and have a hard time believing anyone would be 30 runs better than him w/ the glove, much less everett. that's a LOT of runs.

i don't think fielding percentage is useless. Range is important, too....it's great and all if you're able to cover more ground, but it's not helpful if you can't field the ball. a good fielding percentage needs to go hand in hand with how much range you have.

back when izturis started everyday, he and everett had similar range factors. i know that was 3 years ago, but i'm thinking him starting every day will get him comfortable and loose, and get him more towards his 2004/2005 numbers. just a hunch, of course. only the games will determine what happens.

by bigJOE1 on Feb 22, 2008 2:21 AM EST up 0 recs

My turn....

Everett - $2 million
Cassell - $500k
Izzy - $8 million
Andruw Jones - $9 million
LaRue - $850k
Towers - $1.8 million
Clement - $1.8 million + incentives

Total: $25.3 million

Assuming the Jones would have taken a 1 year deal in St. Louis that's a huge steal in a number of ways that I've outlined before. If he has a huge 1st half you can dump him for prospects. If he sucks, he's gone at the end of the year, so no blocking of Colby. This is only $1 million more than the club spent and a lot better bang for the buck, IMO. The only thing that hurts is that they don't have a legit leadoff hitter, so Barton would have to win the job and play left field and Duncan might have to be moved for pitching...just a thought. Otherwise:

Lineup:
Hoffpauir 2B
Duncan LF
Pujols 1B
Jones CF
Glaus 3B
Ankiel RF
Molina C
Everett SS
Pitcher

Bench:
Kennedy IF
Spiezio IF
Barton OF
Ludwick OF
Larue C

Rotation:
Wainwright
Looper
Cassel
Towers
Mulder/Clement

Bullpen:
Johnson
Flores
Wellemeyer
Franklin
Thompson
Worrell/Boggs
Izzy

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 20, 2008 1:53 AM EST 0 recs