Jan. 4 Hot Stove --- Aaron Miles is back

Aaron Miles and Cardinals

may be getting back together.

Why can't I quit you?

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions

I almost cried

when i saw that noted on stltoday.com. I guess we'll find out if AM is in love with TLR. After all it has to be love if you let someone go only for them to come back.

http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com

by arthropodtodd on Jan 4, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions

Where?

I couldn't find it on stltoday or any other site, so I was wondering how reliable the source was but regardless it is unsettling.

by StLHugo on Jan 4, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions

The Miles reference

is in the last paragragh in the main story about the signing of Clement on STLtoday.com.

by cardsgirl95 on Jan 4, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions

Ugh.

God dammit.

What the hell can Aaron Miles do that Brendan Ryan can't do?

I realize there's always the possibility that Ryan, Jimenez, and Izturis could still get the bulk of playing time, but why even give Tony a choice? We all know how much he loves Miles. If Aaron's on the team, he's almost surely going to get 200 AB's or more (probably more).

Nothing personal against Miles, but resigning him to anything but a minor league contract is a bad move.

by arch support on Jan 4, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions

Why

Why do people seem to love getting old Cardinal players back?

Have we not learned our lesson. It seems like some people still want Matt Morris back, and I just don't get it. We need to move on as a fan base.

How would Aaron Miles make it back? I don't believe it.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 12:00 PM EST reply actions

if you are referring to me...

I didn't say I wanted Morris back, But I'd take him if it greased the wheels in getting Snell and Bay. Taking Morris wouldn't be a plus for the Cards in my proposal, it would be a plus for the Bucs.

by abothebear on Jan 4, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions

That trade

is ridiculous and the pirates wouldn't do it.

here's why:

player for player they get screwed. Bay is better historically than Duncan. Snell is better than Reyes. Anderson is a nice prospect if he sticks at catcher. I dont think they would give up two tradable commodities just to dump Morris. Adam Jones is worth a lot. He is a top CF prospect. Won't happen.

by Toddius396 on Jan 4, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions

yea, but

that's what we need, someone desperate enough to pay us to take morris, like we were with edmonds. though he was down last year, i think jason bay in left for us would make us a contender, now that we have an ace rotation!

by sportsman on Jan 4, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions

re:

I think they'd think about Duncan and Reyes for Snell. And maybe Anderson, Schumaker, and a decent minor league pitcher for Bay and Morris's contract. Yes Bay is historically better than Duncan, but he'll be more expensive too. And Snell and Reyes are almost even. We throw in some extras and take on Morris's contract I think we could work something out.

by abothebear on Jan 4, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions

Snell and Reyes are about even?

only if you're counting the number of letters in their last names. Snell is so far above Reyes its beyond serious discussion.

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions

oh yeah

How do their minor league stats compare? Has Snell even pitched a one hitter? How about a World Series win? If you play up the misuse angle a good salesman can make Reyes look so much better than Snell it would be beyond serious discussion. Granted, that sales job would be a lot easier if their old GM was still at the helm.

by abothebear on Jan 5, 2008 12:01 AM EST up reply actions

Adam Jones is comparable to

Colby Rasmus in our farm system. That's the type of bounty it would take to land Snell apparently.

by azruavatar on Jan 4, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions

az is right

adam jones is actually ranked higher than rasmus. while i wouldn't mind kicking the tires on snell and/or duke, the mariners would be nuts to give up jones for a guy who has yet to really establish himself. jones for bedard makes more sense.

by indakind on Jan 4, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions

right

Jones is too much and the Mariners probably wouldn't trade him for someone like Snell, but Duncan and Reyes would be a fair package wouldn't it? maybe toss in a middling minor leaguer?

Giving up Duncan for a still unproven pitcher is hard to do, but the reality is we have an over-crowded outfield situation and need a talented pitcher.

by abothebear on Jan 4, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions

re

"adam jones is actually ranked higher than rasmus."

Uh, no.

But yeah, it would take Rasmus to get Snell. People need to understand Duncan isn't near as valuable as they think he is.

by bigboy1234 @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 4, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

uh, yeah.

Sorry bigboy, but that statement is actually true, although barely.

Baseball America's top 100 prospects ratings from before the 2007 season puts Adam Jones one spot better than Colby Rasmus:

Adam Jones, of, Mariners
Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263445.html

Now, my bet is that won't be the case for the 2008 top 100 prospects, but at the most recent list, Jones actually does come out ahead.

by mtalken on Jan 4, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

From MiLB.com Top Ten

In order

Jay Bruce
Evan Longoria
Cameron Maybin
Clayton Kershaw
Joba Chamberlain
Clay Buchholz
Colby Rasmus
Andrew McCutchen
Homer Bailey
Adam Miller

by DJ4508 on Jan 4, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions

An updated list

but unfair to Jones because he's not a prospect anymore.

Also, for what its worth I would take Rasmus over Cameron Maybin, Clayton Kershaw, and Joba Chamberlain. And I think he's just about even with Longoria and Buchholz.

by bigboy1234 @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 4, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

that list

came out almost a full year ago. I guess you consider Reid Brignac better than Rasmus too, huh? Also, BA is also far from the end all be all, although it is the best out there.

Hell Adam Jones isn't even a prospect anymore. But if he was he would be top 10 overall. Rasmus is a top 5 prospect. At worst Rasmus is even with Jones, but theres no way Jones is better although close.

by bigboy1234 @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 4, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions

you're missing the point

I'm not really stating that Jones is or isn't better than Rasmus.

I'm backing up azru and more specifically inda, who stated, much to your chagrin, that Jones was rated higher than Rasmus.

The list may be a year old, but it's the most updated list from arguably the most respected organization as far as ranking prospects.

Although, really, whichever side you come out on whether Rasmus or Jones is better, it basically solidifies the fact that the proposed trade probably isn't plausible (at least not since the Pirates dumped their old GM--he might have traded us Jason Bay AND Snell for Aaron Miles).

It would certainly behoove the Cardinals to look into acquiring Snell, Bay or both. In fact, if taking Morris back would work as salary cap relief in order to acquire one of the guys, I'd be happy to see Matty Mo back in Cardinal red.

However, despite that almost any deal not involving Rasmus that would land us either or both of these guys would be a good one, it's REALLY a longshot.

by mtalken on Jan 4, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions

re:

It is only a long shot if you consider a Jones deal plausible. Several here have noted that the Mariners would be fools to trade Jones for Snell. Which means the market for Snell isn't Jones, and thereby isn't Rasmus either.

by abothebear on Jan 4, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions

There's no way in hell the Mariners trade

Adam Jones for Ian Snell. Adam Jones for Erik Bedard doesn't even make sense straight up, let alone for MOR guy like Snell.

by JI on Jan 4, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions

Snell

I would test the waters on Snell, just to see what the Bucs would be asking for. I wouldnt give up our top prospect for him though.

Happy New Year! Only a couple more months til' ST!

by yer dog first on Jan 4, 2008 12:42 PM EST reply actions

Maybe I'm old fashioned

but I think the trading of a player who can play everyday, contribute everyday, and give the team a chance to win everyday for a guy who pitches every 4 or 5 days is, on the surface, kind of nuts.

Now, if you're dealing from a position of strength, that will make sense. The real question is whether or not we have a position of strength and where it is.

I'm getting comfortable with our staff of 3,4, and 5 starters. Who needs a #1 or #2 when you have the indomitable Aaron Miles batting leadoff everyday :) Just kidding.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Jan 4, 2008 1:06 PM EST reply actions

Miles Resigned

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/32A6EB5DEB7AC69B862573C60063BD37 ?OpenDocument

by StLHugo on Jan 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST reply actions

i dont get it...

unless its a minor league deal? i didnt think there was room on the roster for another infielder. maybe they'd considering cutting izturis?

by dmb60614 on Jan 4, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions

well

shit and why??

by cm1000 on Jan 4, 2008 1:45 PM EST reply actions

Miles IS back!

Mo announced on KFNS that Miles was brought back because of his versatility; he specifically mentioned his ability to "play" 3rd as a contributing factor. My question... what is the value of a guy who can do many things, but none of them well; ie most rather poorly? Where does Spezio factor into this signing, if at all?

by jimmyv on Jan 4, 2008 1:45 PM EST reply actions

Miles; again

Addendum: Mo also said that Izturis is first on the depth chart and the leading candidate to be the starting shortstop. So he does not seem to be on the hot seat.

by jimmyv on Jan 4, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions

Also

Mo made it a point to emphasize the Ryan has options and can be sent back to AAA. He all but declared an Izturis, Miles, Kennedy middle infield.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 4, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions

yuck

thats awful. i am not on the brendan ryan bandwagon at all, but he's better and cheaper than izturis and miles.

by dmb60614 on Jan 4, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

Ah, crap.

.... I mean.... COME ON!!

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Jan 4, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions

Miles, Miles, Miles

Yeah, that was stupid.

Why drop the guy, then pick him back up? Well, good to know that no one in Cardinal nation is getting burned by the hot stove.

He looks like Fievel from American Tail. He and Matt "Chin Nuts" Clement can compete for cool guy goatee awards.

Eh. It's their money - they can do what they want with it.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Jan 4, 2008 1:52 PM EST reply actions

Fievel

I just cracked up laughing at work!

Is this some sort of bizzaro world? Just when I thought the Cardinals were heading in the right direction.

Ok clue me in here why do they need even more terrible middle infielders.

Ryan, Kennedy, Izturis, Miles, Barden, Hoffpauir, Jimenez. I guess STL is just trying to throw together the all utility team. My god all the guys on that list are bad.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 2:13 PM EST up reply actions

is it me....

or does it look like a "throw-a-bunch-of-sh**-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks" thing with these middle infielders? Ugh.

Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.

by Futility Infielder on Jan 4, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions

miles has been thrown

and he didn't stick, but we picked him up again anyway. Aargh...

by SleepyCA on Jan 4, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions

Why?

What possible purpose does this serve? I guess this confirms that our best middle infield will be in Memphis. Not that Hoffpauir and Ryan are world beaters - it just illustrates how bad we are up the middle with the big club.

Well we've now cornered the market on light hitting, average fielding middle infielders. The rest of the league knows where to turn when they need a replacement level infielder. They'll come crawling to us, I just know it.

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 4, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

The scary thought is that

with Kennedy, Miles and Izturis, Jimenez could wind up taking ABs away from Ryan or Hoffpauir in AAA. That would be the real tragedy.

by azruavatar on Jan 4, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

Jose Martinez...

Gotta fit in there at some point too.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

Spezio & Dough

I still wonder if the designation of Miles as a super-sub type, at an implied bargain price, figures to freeze out the Speezer? I believe his contract is guaranteed for this year, but there may be a buy-out and it would free up a roster spot. I am not advocating this but I for the life of me can;t fathom why unless the skipper just hates Ryan.

by jimmyv on Jan 4, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions

ryan

i think the answer is that ryan is headed back to memphis so he can learn how to wear sunglasses.

by dmb60614 on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

Spiezio

If they wanted to part ways with Spiezio, it would've made more sense to bring in Dallas McPherson, who can actually play third base—or, heaven forbid, let Brian Barden backup third.

Bringing Miles back on a guaranteed contract is an irritating move, to say the least. What an unimaginative, stinkin' waste.

by liam on Jan 4, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

man love

mo said miles could play 3rd does that mean a trade of rolen.. wow miles at 3rd izturis at ss kennedy at 2nd shit that looks great..

by cm1000 on Jan 4, 2008 2:18 PM EST reply actions

Mo's comments

He alluded to the fact that Miles' ability to switch-hit and play 3 positions were major factors. He also implied that this decision has no direct effect on Speizio, but strongly implied that Ryan would be sent down to AAA and that Miles would be a backup...not starter. (Which also blocks Barden and Jimenez.)

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 4, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions

Play 3 positions...

Poorly. Versatility is a myth as it pertains to Miles. Maybe not if you factor in that sweet 72 mph eiphus (sp?)pitch, though.

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 4, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

where is bobby at?

he's due to hand out a big old "I told ya so".

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply actions

I thought he was crazy once he was dfa'd

but he was right. I feel like crying!

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions

the irony is

that the ad-link at the top of the screen asks "is this your lucky day?" Apparently not!

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions

Awesome!

I was going through Aaron Miles-withdrawal! Hopefully, they'll send Ryan down for more seasoning and Miles will finally get his shot at being the everyday SS!

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply actions

aaron...miles...

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

he's like a wart you try and get rid of and just when you think it's gone, it comes back.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 4, 2008 2:51 PM EST reply actions

Before I was married

my wife, then girlfriend, had a yucca plant in her garden. We wanted to pull it up and put in some decent looking flowers. I'd pull up one set of roots and find another. And they didn't come up easily. Anybody ever try to pull up a yucca plant? You can't! It's impossible. It's roots dug into the yard. I bet I spent 6 hours trying to pull up this one stupid plant and every time I thought I had it, I found another set of roots -- strong ones that you had to fight.

Aaron Miles is a yucca plant! Every time you think you can get rid of him, he returns. Does he have compromising pictures of Mo or DeWitt? Is he banging DeWitt's daughter? Seriously!

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions

When you started by talking about your wife

...I thought you were going to continue talking about warts. Pulling up a plant seems better than having warts. Consider yourself lucky. :)

I can't think of a good offseason signature.

by effin fisk on Jan 4, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

If he was banging DeWitt's daughter

you think it'd be ground for termination.

by JI on Jan 4, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

Hardcore

I know what you mean about the Yucca plant. Just be glad it was (A) yucca plant. Try getting rid of a patch of Yucca plants..so the morale of the story is...just be glad there's just one Aaron Miles.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

Argh.

My eye just started twitching involuntarily.

by arch support on Jan 4, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions

FUCK

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Jan 4, 2008 2:51 PM EST reply actions

Disgusting...

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 2:52 PM EST reply actions

Over/Under

450 Abs?

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 3:06 PM EST reply actions

maybe

Maybe this is a Junior Spivey type signing?

Maybe Miles stinks in ST and does not make the team!!

You hear that Hoffpauir, Kennedy, Barden, Izturis, Ryan...... You better preform well so Miles is seen as expendable. I seriously doubt any of those clowns will do anything to keep Miles off the roster.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions

He'd have to REALLY stink it up

to look worse than Cezar and Kennedy in ST.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions

True

That's what is so sad. Miles is not much worse than any person I listed.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Well...

"Maybe Miles stinks in ST and does not make the team!!"

One can only hope. The only thing is....he will suck, just like he always has, but the management team won't see it.

He'll slap a few singles, play terrible defense, have no on base skills, no power and no speed.

He'll still make the team and play nearly everyday.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions

All we can hope for now

is that Jimenez comes in with a good attitude and outplays Miles in ST. The only problem is that he's Mike Gallego-ish TLR fave and Tony will find a way to get him AB's.

I just don't get why the Cards didn' like their MI depth, with Kennedy, Izturis, Jimenez, and Ryan already in the fold.

The only thing between me and you is a thin layer of gabardine...

by silent_bob on Jan 4, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

I forgot about Jimenez

and based on the Miles signing so did they.

Does anyone know where Tripp Cromer is?

What's that?

The Cardinals just signed him more more infield depth.

I sure hope Ken Oberkfell has an unlisted number.

by Harknights on Jan 4, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

And Hoffpauir

I wanted to see him get a serious opportunity. I thought that's where we were heading. Apparently not. Nonsensical move. I was ok with the direction, but this move tells volumes -there is no direction.

Good God...

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 4, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions

Runs

We do need to outscore to opponent to win games, right? That hasn't changed. Just checking. It just seems like that doesn't matter to the Cardinals anymore.

by bdief on Jan 4, 2008 3:16 PM EST reply actions

This whole hiding diary entries thing

isn't working too well for me. I can't search any of the old diaries.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 3:17 PM EST reply actions

Shit.

all I got.

The only thing between me and you is a thin layer of gabardine...

by silent_bob on Jan 4, 2008 3:26 PM EST reply actions

Somebody Get a mop...

My first thought on hearing the news was to head over hear and watch people's heads explode.

Bad signing, but at least nobody has to pick a new favorite whipping boy.

by pfrench on Jan 4, 2008 3:40 PM EST reply actions

Is Mo like Two-Face?

Just when he has a good deal where you think "Man this guys is thinking outside the box." He goes out a signs Aaron Miles.

This kind of signing says that they don't want to lose 90 games rather than trying to win 90.

Unless they are all sitting there saying "There is no way Hoff, Ryan and Barber out hit Kennedy, Izturis and Miles." If they are then god help us. If they aren't saying that then please explain why Miles is back.

by Harknights on Jan 4, 2008 3:40 PM EST reply actions

Thinking outside the box?

How is signing yet another retread pitcher coming off of injury at a lowball contract thinking outside the box? The Cardinals have been doing it (atleast) for 10 years.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions

I was trying to be nice

I like the Clement signing. Low risk high reward.

Signing Miles is like buying crap at a garage sale. Who cares how cheap it is...it's still crap.

by Harknights on Jan 4, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

This offseason...

It started off so promising. New GM, new coach, new direction for a team that badly needed one.

Now, we've hired our fired GM's cheap knockoff, the same coach, and are employing the same strategy that lead us to less than 80 wins last year.

The most backwards thinking team in baseball. It's no wonder Antonetti took an assistant's job in Cleveland over our offer to be GM.

I was really trying to be optimistic, but.....

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 3:41 PM EST reply actions

So it's fair to say

the board isn't all that enthusiastic about this move?

by Red in Chicago on Jan 4, 2008 3:44 PM EST reply actions

I don't know

Might have to put it to a vote.

I think most are taking a wait and see approach before commenting. I do feel that some may be a little unsure of it.

by Harknights on Jan 4, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions

Tragically, I can't complain about

JRod anymore either since the Rays signed him.

by azruavatar on Jan 4, 2008 3:49 PM EST reply actions

good luck, JRod

You never got the chance you deserved here; hope you get it in TB.

by SleepyCA on Jan 4, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions

J Rod

If we did not have 900 other outfielders he would have gotten a better shot I am sure.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions

Someone check this math

is our payroll now down to $96 M?

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 3:51 PM EST reply actions

I would think

you'd have to add in the $2 mln the team is paying for Edmonds' contract, no?

by DCGreg on Jan 4, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

Good point

forgot about Edmonds $2 M.

Updating...

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions

With $17m

On the DL.

this is Awsome.

Wait. Did Miles get that much?

Your numbers might be...gulp...high.

by Harknights on Jan 4, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

If we could just get rid of Looper

eating none of his contract and Kennedy (eating $2 M over next 2 season = $1 m in 2008 and 09), we could get this payroll below $90 M and DeWitt could really turn a profit.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions

FoxSports say Miles is getting $1.4 M

another bump in the payroll. DeWitt, you reckless spender. Watch out Steinbrenner!

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

Great...

So out of the 6 million the Cardinals saved by shipping off Jimmy, $3.25 million was spent on Izturis, and now $1.4 million on Miles. And I guess the rest on Clement. Way to spend that money!

by DiscoJer on Jan 4, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions

Hometown discount!

Shrewd move, Mo!

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Jan 4, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions

WTF

Good lord. Just when I thought that the Cards had enough beating hearts with a shred of MLB-level talent to push Miles out the door, they bring him back. "Improve infield depth?" What the hell? Izturis, Kennedy, Ryan, Jimenez, Hoff, w/ Spiezio and Barden (who at least have the ability to stand at either SS or 2nd and at least hit a ball PAST the outfielders once in a blue fucking moon) as emergency fill ins isn't enough depth? Does Mozeliak want to corner the market on middle infielders? Does he desire to make this a position of um, strength, or something like strength that is not really strength at all? I'm perplexed. Our middle infield went from Eck, Kennedy, and Miles to Izturis, Kennedy and Miles. I hate to say it, but the first one looks a HELL of a lot better than the second. I mean, it's pretty damn sad when the biggest offensive force is coming off of a injury-riddled season with an OPS+ of 55 or whateverthehellitwas. God dammit...

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 4, 2008 4:06 PM EST reply actions

I know....

Mo is going to package Fieval, Kennedy, Izturis, Jimenez, Hoffpauir, Ryan, Spezio, Barden and Cairo in a giant blockbuster deal for Jack Wilson and a PTBNL. (rumoured to be Matt Morris?) Rolen might be a throw-in.

The Pirates will then trade them all for the oldest guy on the San Fransico roster.

Some guys just dont look good in red.

by cardschinmusic on Jan 5, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions

Methusaleh?

Or perhaps Abraham?

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 6, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions

The 25 man roster

as it shakes down now, the 25 man roster looks like this:

Starting 8:
Molina
Pujols
Rolen
Kennedy
Izturis
Duncan
Ankiel
Barton

I put Izturis and Barton in there because both have to stay on the roster (Barton because of Rule V and Izturis because we are paying his sorry ass).

Then, we have the bench:
Speezer
LaRue
Miles
Ludwick

I didn't include Ryan or Skippy because the both have options.

So, we are up to 12 position players.

The Opening Day rotation:
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
Clement

Those are the only 4 'sure things' to get a spot in the rotation through the first turn barring trade.

The bullpen
Izzy
Franklin
Springer
Flores

Those 4 have contracts with the team and no real options to be sent down.

That's 8 pitchers to go with 12 position players.

Mulder will be on the DL to start the season.

That leaves 5 slots for:
Ryan
Skip
Rasmus (if he gets a legit look)
Reyes
Thompson
Johnson
Wellemeyer
Flores (number deux)
Kinney

9 guys. We know that LaRuss will carry ATLEAST 12 pitchers, so 6 pitchers (minimum) are competing for 4 slots.

Very interesting to see who gets sent down, released or traded.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 4:09 PM EST reply actions

Skip

You say that Skip has options, but Red Baron on Monday said he was out of options and would therefore have to clear waivers to be excluded from the 25-man roster.

Can someone please clarify this?

by k randolph on Jan 4, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

Options

There is some sort of smoke & mirrors type thing the Cardinals can do to send him to AAA without having to clear waivers.

It was discussed sometime last week I believe, I am too lazy to dig up the post on the subject.

But Skip technically can be sent down with out having to clear waivers.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 4, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions

Are you thinking of Reyes?

I wasn't around last week, so missed the discussion you're referring to.

by liam on Jan 4, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions

Skip

He is out of options—he was added to the 40-man after his big 2004 season.

by liam on Jan 4, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

I thought he could still be sent down

in the similiar way that Anthony Reyes could.

If not, Skippy will be released. Ludwick, Ankiel and Duncan are better players, Barton has much more upside and HAS to stay on the 25 man roster.

Skip will be traded or released.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

"Skip will be traded or released."

In a sane world, this is what would happen. Unfortunately we seem to have shifted back into bizarro world...

by SleepyCA on Jan 4, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

don't know if anyone mentioned I'd

but kinney willll start the season on the dl with a broken arm

by jealousblues on Jan 5, 2008 5:33 AM EST up reply actions

Prediction

Cardinals....5th place in the NL Central with a record of 71-91...20 games below .500.

Albert will lead the NL in walks and the Cards will finish dead last in the NL in runs scored and RBIs.

Stock up on the beer and whiskey.

by KYCards on Jan 4, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions

stock up?

I've already started drinking.

by azruavatar on Jan 4, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions

hell yea

great idea stay home get drunk and what them on tv and then break the t.v. I love it might as well start getting in game shape

by cm1000 on Jan 4, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions

Relax

Miles was signed for bullpen depth.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Jan 4, 2008 4:32 PM EST reply actions

this team

is beginning to make me feel like an Israelite. Eh, I'm sure we'll be out of the desert soon, right guys? Guys?

Punch. Drink. Cry.

by the red baron on Jan 4, 2008 4:52 PM EST reply actions

No. no.no.no.no. No more Miles. No...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 4, 2008 5:20 PM EST reply actions

A Theory....

Just thinking politics for a moment. Might it be that this was a guy Tony went to Mo and said - I WANT THIS GUY RYAN IS NOT READY -

If Tony asked me for Aaron Miles as the last INF on the bench and I could placate him with that move vs. signing oh say Kyle Lohse for 4/40 then what the hell. You don't lose a thing. Consider it our annual contribution to the Spivy, PDub, Encarnacion, Carpenter. Really it is a drop in the bucket. Not creative, but again, I suspect a political must for MO.

Miles isn't the biggest of our problems IMHO. By the way - GREAT deal worked out with Clement. Loved that one.

As for the Pirates trade. Sounds great. Matty Mo and Snell for A Reyes, B Looper and C Dunc would work for me... (probably light for the Padres - maybe throw in another B- or C+ prospect)...

by Lawless on Jan 4, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions

padres, pirates

what the hell they both have nice stadiums!

by Lawless on Jan 4, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

There is no way the Pirates

would give up Morris and Snell for that package. Heck, I think the Padres would have pause before pull the trigger on that deal for Pittsburgh and they aren't even their players.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions

Am I uneducated?

I swear, I sound more intelligent in my head.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions

You are a legend

in your own mind, Hardcore.....excuse me..time, time.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions

Tony....

He shouldn't be making roster choices. He's the manager not the GM.

If he's telling Mo who to sign, then he truly is the puppet that so many feared when he was hired.

Following this team makes me physically ill.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed - BUT

in the big picture do you really believe that Tony does not have significant input...especially as Mo is a newbie. Of course he does. With the A's absolutely not. With the Cards - I have little doubt in my mind that before any move is made Tony would give his two cents. What do you think? And further, if you were Mo, wouldn't you selectively take his advice, even if it meant you couldn't give Barton the super util job?

by Lawless on Jan 4, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

No

If I were the GM, Tony would be told to manage the team I put on the field.

This is precisely why I will never be GM, other than the fact I'm not qualified

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions

It just dosen't

work that way, and never has bobbyballgame.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions

Sure it does...

All over baseball, GMs are allowed to make personel deciscions.

Just because MO has to ask Tony's permission to take a shit...doesn't mean it works that way on other clubs.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions

In some cases

yes, an inactive owner does give full power to a GM but in most cases where the owner is actively involved in the running of the clubs, I don't think any one man (GM) makes a personnel move by himself without discussing it with at least the field manager and owner and I think this is the way it works with the Cards. If I were a GM, a manager or an owner, this is the way I would want it to work and no manager with a winning record over a period of time would manage under any other conditions. La Russa wouldn't, bobby Cox wouldn't, Lou Piniella wouldn,t, La Sorda, Alston, Weaver, Stengel wouldn't have and on and on.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions

Well...

Discussing it is one thing, but placating your manager is another thing entirely.

I'm not saying the manager shouldn't have input. I'm saying he shouldn't be making the final call.

If it was Mo's call...then he should'nt be the GM.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

and this was placating pure and simple. I for one never disliked Miles the way a lot of others on this site do but once he was not resigned and others signed to replace him, it seems like a silly move at this time..But really the Jemeniz and Isturis moves seemed dumb to me. I favored giving Ryan and Hofpuair a full shot. In fact I think it was La Russa not Miles that shouldn't have been resigned. With the farm system seemingly ready to produce some players in the near future, I'm really afraid that La Russa is going to screw it up. Seems like the Big Boss doesn't see it that way though.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions

You've got it

Lawless, everybody's been beating up Mo. It should be crystal clear. This is a Tony Larussa move.

by ridgesee on Jan 4, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

I don't get why

LaRussa has to be placated by Mozeliak. Why? Mo is the GM. He makes the personnel decisions. People were all over Rolen in his feud w/ LaRussa -- "if he doesn't like what he's getting paid to do his job, he should just quit." Doesn't the same hold true for Tony? Manage the damned team! Mo makes the personnel decisions and if he feels that Miles, at $1.4 fucking million is way too much money considering we can have Ryan do that job for 1/4 of the pay, then that's the way it is.

You might be right that Mo felt like he needed to placate Tony, but if he did, he's wrong. Signing Miles is the wrong thing to do even if it does put a pacifier in Tony's mouth.

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions

Yahooooooo

I don't disagree with you. Mark it

by The Butcher on Jan 4, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions

what i want to know is this

will MO have the balls to make some changes come july when a team full of Tony's guys is 20+ games out?

he clearly doesn't have them to stand up to Tony now. what glimmer of hope do we have he'll grow some in 7 months?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jan 4, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

think its

a pacifier he wanting to suck ??? man love oh hell did I just do that..yea I did damm me

by cm1000 on Jan 4, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions

discount

i wonder if we can get a mlb-tv discount if we promise to watch cards' games? more to the point, our MI now looks like our pitching staff, lots of low grade, but interchangeable parts. can we trade 3 middling middle infielders for one good one?

by sportsman on Jan 4, 2008 5:24 PM EST reply actions

Miguel Cairo

Signing in 3, 2...

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Jan 4, 2008 5:43 PM EST reply actions

cruel

by sportsman on Jan 4, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions

hehe

i like your humor

by PolancoMcEwing on Jan 5, 2008 4:47 AM EST up reply actions

I don't know if anyone else is listening to

DeWitt on 1380 but I wish we had Billy Beane for a GM. Not because of anything saber related but just because he doesn't try the smoke and mirrors bulls--t that we hear from St. Louis. How anyone can really truly talk about "competing" next year is beyond me. Let's just be honest about it -- we're in a transition year and we need to see how some players perform. Unless competing means "not coming in last", then I don't know what they're talking about.

by azruavatar on Jan 4, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply actions

Ha!

"Unless competing means "not coming in last", then I don't know what they're talking about."

That will be the stiffest competition we've seen in years. I can't wait for that late September series in Pittsburgh.

"Battle for the Cellar"!!!

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 4, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

i've been sick with the flu all week

so can some one please tell me this miles signing is a symptom of my high fever & it didnt really happen? anyone?

please????????????

MO WTF dude?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jan 4, 2008 5:58 PM EST reply actions

OMFG

Miles is back? After DFAing him? Blocking our plethora of cheaper, BETTER, truly more versatile options?

WTF, Mo?

FAIL.

I think I'm going to be sick.

I guess we all know who's really calling the shots on the roster now (hint: he wears #10). Unbe-fucking-lievable.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Jan 4, 2008 6:27 PM EST reply actions

The Marlins signed Jorge Cantu

to a $500,000 minor-league deal this evening to compete for the Fishs' 3rd base job. WHERE THE HELL WAS MO ON THIS ONE?

Cantu can play 2nd or 3rd(better than Miles), is only 26, is 2 years removed from a stand-out season with the Devil Rays, and began to show his old form last year while with the Reds. He also (unlike Miles) has the ability to hit the ball out of the infield. (You mean all the way out to the wall?!)

Miles got a deal worth 2x as much, and is probably 1/2 the ball player Cantu is...

F-in A Cotton, F-in A...

by SethWestern on Jan 4, 2008 6:37 PM EST reply actions

try almost 3 times the money

I'm no Cantu fan but still...

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 7:35 PM EST up reply actions

Cantu is pretty shitty

but still...

by JI on Jan 4, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

Hooray!

Is it offseason 2008-2009 yet?

Cardinal fan in War Eagle land

by Mr Redbird on Jan 4, 2008 6:56 PM EST reply actions

I want to say...

... that we're over-reacting to this contract. Because it's an insignificant amount of money for an insignificant length of time to an insignificant player on an insignificant team (unless everything breaks just right). But that may not be. There are implications here.

At-bats (maybe even a roster spot) will be taken away from Brendan Ryan. What if D-Angelo Jimenez surprises during spring training? His role will be limited as well with stop-gap Izturis already on board. And what about later in the year? What if Hoff continues to put up solid numbers in AAA? This makes it much more difficult for him to get a legit look.

For an organization that appeared to be turning the page and allowing younger players more opportunity, this move makes no sense. If we wanted another infielder who could questionably play three spots around the dirt, then why not take a gamble on someone with more upside? The Cantu signing is a good example. We've seen Miles' upside and it's an OBP solely dependent on batting average.

by AndyB83 on Jan 4, 2008 8:01 PM EST reply actions

I agree about overreacting

There's no way that in 21st-century baseball, a $1.4M, one-year signing can represent a big mistake. A modern team (except Tampa Bay, but I'm not sure I'd call them "modern"...) can eat a contract that size and simply flush the player, and the contract, in March without even noticing. If Miles doesn't improve on the alternatives -- as he probably won't -- there's no significant financial incentive to keep him.

Yeah, I'm not particularly happy to have him back. But it's really no big deal, and it doesn't hurt their financial flexibility. They can do another $3-4M worth of dumpster diving and still have coin left to pursue something worth pursuing. Let's see how that pursuit goes, and not fret this deal.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 4, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions

The points you make

are exactly why people aren't overreacting. It's not the $1.4 M -- that's chump change. It's a 1 year contract. The contract itself isn't horrible. The player it's given to is.

Signing Miles creates an opportunity cost -- or several that you mentioned. One is that Ryan may not even make the team, certainly won't get a chance to prove himself at SS, and may even have to split time at Memphis w/ Jimenez and Martinez. The same holds true for Hoffpauir.

The cost is the lack of playing time the young players will receive -- whether in St. Louis or Memphis. These players, all of whom have potential ceilings higher than Miles', need to be given a chance to prove themselves everyday. Giving a roster spot to Miles takes PA's away from the players who need it the most and that's the real problem w/ this signing.

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions

Good point...

Not only does this signing presumably leave one of our younger guys off of the MLB squad but it may also lead to at-bats being stolen away from them in AAA as well.

I personally was dumbfounded when Mozeliak claimed that he was still looking for a utility guy on 1380 the other day. We already had Spiezio (assuming he doesn't need more treatment), Brendan Ryan, Izturis (who's played 2B, SS, and 3B), Jimenez (who's played 2B, SS, and 3B), and now Miles (who they treat as a utility infielder but really isn't).

by AndyB83 on Jan 5, 2008 11:10 AM EST up reply actions

this is getting

worse all the damm time shit/.

by cm1000 on Jan 4, 2008 9:11 PM EST reply actions

when people are getting their

hopes up for a deal with pitt for snell and Morriss..yuck the sky has fallen

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Jan 4, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions

miles vs clement

interesting that miles and clement get basically the same base pay, as if they were the same risk. anyone know if miles is guaranteed? it is not so much the money as it is, how do you give all of these MI guys a fair shot and yourself a fair shot at evaluating them in st alone. it's like the pitchers, only so many opportunities to show your wares, and who gets those opportunities seems pretty critical to determining which 25 go north.

by sportsman on Jan 4, 2008 9:40 PM EST reply actions

your point is a good one

Miles and Clement get basically the same money and yet, the opportunity cost of playing Miles is much greater than playing Clement. The bottom line is that it's questionable whether or not we have anyone who could've filled Clement's role had we not signed him. It's possible that someone like Boggs, Parisi, or Garcia will have a tremendous spring and pitch their way into the rotation but they're, in all likelihood, not ready yet.

But in the middle infield, we have players as good as Miles or better. The opportunity cost of playing Miles is seeing whether or not Ryan's a big-league SS, or seeing whether or not Hoffpauir can hit major-league hitting. As AZ said earlier, the signing of Jimenez (D'Angelo) and now of Miles will likely reduce the number of PA's for Hoffpauir and Martinez at AAA.

The cost of going w/ Clement is extremely low, especially considering his upside. The cost of going w/ Miles is extremely high, especially considering his upside!

by chuckb on Jan 4, 2008 10:05 PM EST up reply actions

disappointing and true

it would be very interesting to know the real basis of this decision. we clearly don't need him and it is highly unlikely jimenez would have signed had this happened first. unless there is a plan in place to move one or more of these guys, don't really see the point. even if tlr wants to make sure ryan takes nothing for granted, this is a puzzler.

by sportsman on Jan 4, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions

Just wait....

My wife says we'll all be eating our words when Miles hits .390 (granted, his SLG will be .400 and his OBP will be .395) and wins the Gold Glove.

by jim of beam on Jan 4, 2008 10:13 PM EST reply actions

Maybe in a streaky year...

he could hit that. I mean, he is streak prone, if it lasted one season, who knows. But he'll never win a gold glove

by DiscoJer on Jan 5, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions

Scientist have discovered a new black hole...

it's located around the second base bag at Busch III.

This move makes no sense whatsoever. DeWitt should take the checkbook away from Mo. I'd rather DeWitt pocket the money than spend it on wretched players like Izturus and Miles.

The Cards didn't have a lot of good options at 2nd or SS this off season, but why keep throwing good money after bad. They should just have signed Bo Hart and cut Kennedy, Ryan, etc. At least some of the fans would be happy.

by lefty fan on Jan 4, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply actions

just gross

would love to get bay considering what he makes and he is signed for 2 more years..you would have to think he would bounce back hitting in front of or behind pujols..a middle lineup of

ankiel
pujols
bay
duncan
rolen

would make me feel halfway decent seeing as our 7-9 hitters are automatic outs..

im not to thrilled about miles being signed. and even less happy about morris..yeah he can eat innings but we got rid of edmonds to save salary and we are going to spend it on miles, izturis, and morris..yuck

and we can forget about snell, it will never happen..at least not until he has 2 tommy john surgerys

by willie is a stud on Jan 4, 2008 11:41 PM EST reply actions