BREAKING: Rolen for Glaus Swap Pending Physical
The Cardinals and Blue Jays are closing in on an exchange of their third basemen, major-league sources say, but both former All-Stars must pass physicals before a deal is completed.
Those physicals are no small issue since Rolen is coming off surgery on his right shoulder and Glaus surgery on his left foot.
While both players have agreed to waive their no-trade clauses, the differences in their contracts also might need to be resolved, most likely through a cash payment from the Cardinals to the Blue Jays.
Update [2008-1-12 14:31:1 by lboros]: well, here's another leg for the la-russa-runs-the-club theory to stand on . . . . glaus is clearly a better hitter than rolen at this point; he has outhomered and out-rbi'd rolen in each of the last 3 seasons, outslugged and out-OBP'd him in 2 of the last 3:| ab | hr | rbi | avg | obp | slg | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| glaus 07 | 385 | 20 | 62 | .262 | .366 | .473 |
| rolen 07 | 392 | 8 | 58 | .265 | .331 | .398 |
| glaus 06 | 540 | 38 | 104 | .252 | .355 | .513 |
| rolen 06 | 521 | 22 | 95 | .296 | .369 | .518 |
| glaus 05 | 538 | 37 | 97 | .258 | .363 | .522 |
| rolen 05 | 196 | 5 | 28 | .235 | .323 | .383 |
he'd give the cardinals a true 30-hr bat (something rolen hasn't been since 2004), plus he's younger than rolen and is on a shorter contract, which is a good thing when you're discussing over-30 players with health issues.
UZR does not like glaus's glove, but all the other systems (PMR, enhanced ZR, dewan's +/-) have him as an above-average defender --- not quite as good as rolen, but within 5 runs a year or so. not sure why the blue jays would want to make this deal --- maybe glaus' foot problems are serious enough that they expect a precipitous decline --- but it looks like an advantageous move for the cards on every front. even if rolen and la russa were bosom buddies, this would be a good trade.
although i'd rather get back a young player like adam laroche . . . . . .
Update [2008-1-12 14:54:3 by lboros]: i just took a look at glaus's game log from last year. he abruptly stopped hitting in mid-july ---- went .220 / .333 / .384 over his last 44 games and then had season-ending surgery. maybe that's why the blue jays are ready to dump him.
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Are you kidding me?
I feel sick.
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on Jan 12, 2008 1:04 PM EST 0 recs
Am I the only one who likes the deal?
by matt reeder on
Jan 12, 2008 1:12 PM EST
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Not just you
by roebirds on
Jan 12, 2008 1:14 PM EST
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no, i like it actually
by erik on
Jan 12, 2008 1:26 PM EST
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Blearghle
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on
Jan 12, 2008 1:33 PM EST
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well, glaus is
i love the way he plays, but he seems like his skin is about as thick as as a slice of carl buddig pastrami.
by erik on
Jan 12, 2008 1:49 PM EST
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preview button
i like it because the soap opera is over and pujols has some protection. i personally think rolen isn't going to ever become the hitter he was. and i like it because we don't feel like we're stuck w/him anymore.
what i don't like is how this whole thing shook out, and i'm not crazy about glaus and the whole peds thing.
hey, maybe they'll throw burnett it...now if you excuse me i'll be on the moon, eating spare ribs.
by erik on
Jan 12, 2008 1:54 PM EST
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Rolen needed to go
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on
Jan 12, 2008 1:54 PM EST
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Glaus may be aging, but
My initial reaction to this was neutral to negative, but the more I think about it, the less negative I am. There are three key points. First, going forward, Glaus is more likely to be a plus than Rolen, even though Rolen was the better player up until now. That's true simply on health and age grounds, even if you ignore the chip on Rolen's shoulder and concentrate on the damage in the shoulder. Second, whether he's got the better future or not, TLR so thoroughly poisoned the well with that press conference that I'm surprised that it's even possible to talk about this trade straight up, let alone anything better. Third, it's not like the minors contain anything likely to represent a rebuilding-oriented alternative any time soon. I don't expect Craig to be able to stick at 3B owing to his brutal defense, any projection of Freese as better than just adequate must be considered wildly optimistic, and while I've heard good things about Arnoldi Cruz, he's a long way away.
So maybe I'm "neutral to positive" rather than "neutral to negative," but much depends on the exact terms. One thing sure: De Witzliak need to tell TLR that the next time he runs down one of his players in public while the front office is trying to move said player, he should terminate the press conference with "... and I resign."
by StanTheManFan on
Jan 12, 2008 3:39 PM EST
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the low road
by sportsman on
Jan 12, 2008 4:01 PM EST
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Nope...
I don't see much cash changin hands either.
by bobbyballgame1 on
Jan 12, 2008 3:14 PM EST
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Rolen-Glaus
by akaitori on
Jan 12, 2008 7:33 PM EST
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Guess my
Makes sence, both players with ????. I don't think we should pick up a dime in the deal because Rolen is a better defender. I know I'm bias, want to see my Rolen jersey, but I think we should get a prospect or 2 back also.
New meat for VEB to rip and love all at the same time.
by That's a Winner on Jan 12, 2008 1:05 PM EST 0 recs
Rolen gone
by roebirds on Jan 12, 2008 1:13 PM EST 0 recs
I'm witholding judgement
At full health I'd take Rolen over Glaus any day of the week, but does anyone really think Rolen will ever be at full health again? Glaus has his own injury concerns, but a foot problem is less worrisome than Rolen's bum shoulder, and the move to natural grass should help him.
by stl tyler on Jan 12, 2008 1:19 PM EST 0 recs
Plus
by stl tyler on
Jan 12, 2008 1:20 PM EST
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withholding judgement as well...
On the down side, our pitching staff is still the 'pitch to contact' staff that relies heavily on oustanding defense. This worked when we had Pujols, Grudz, Renteria, Rolen, Sanders, Edmonds, Walker...but not so much when you replace those defensive studs with names like Ryan, Glaus, Duncan, Ankiel and Ludwick...
by TheFranchise9 on
Jan 12, 2008 1:39 PM EST
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speaking of my signature...
by TheFranchise9 on
Jan 12, 2008 1:41 PM EST
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Why I like it
The main reason I like it is because his deal ends one year earlier. It happens to be just the time Miguel Cabrera hits the free agent market. He has already expressed an interest in playing across the diamond from Albert. So as long as we can give him a competetive offer, I would think we have an edge there.
This may also depend on whether or not we are under new ownership at the time. Which I think we will be.
by fatbellyjefferson on Jan 12, 2008 1:40 PM EST 0 recs
2 Points
(note: I don't understand Rosenthal's article at this point. He says Glaus is GUARANTEED 24 million over the next two years and has a 11.25 million player option for 2009. I'm assuming this is a typo and should be 2010.)
2. I don't think you want to see what a "competitive" offer for Miguel Cabrera in two years is. Think Pujols money and then double it.
by Big Red on
Jan 12, 2008 1:56 PM EST
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Here's what I don't like......
by jillsinmo on Jan 12, 2008 1:43 PM EST 0 recs
Its unavoidable
by fatbellyjefferson on
Jan 12, 2008 1:46 PM EST
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Well, it bothers me immensely......
And how unfair is it to the guys who DON'T use PED's to have to compete for their jobs with those who do?
Like I said, I know I'm one of the few people who care about this issue, so this is all I'm going to say, because I know I'm almost irrational about it because it makes me so mad.
Everyone have a nice day.
by jillsinmo on
Jan 12, 2008 1:58 PM EST
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Unfortunately
by Big Red on
Jan 12, 2008 2:03 PM EST
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big mac land
I would suggest not supporting STL and the Big Mac Land if you don't like PED's.
by ICbirdfan on
Jan 12, 2008 2:10 PM EST
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I think more people care than what you think
by saladdays on
Jan 12, 2008 4:13 PM EST
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I appreciate
However, if the Cardinals were to simply say "We don't want ANY PED users on this team" then they'd have no team. That is the only way to make sure they don't have any if you follow that policy to its logical conclusion. It is a simple fact that no one has any clue who all has/will use PEDs at some point. I mean, Brian Roberts and Gary Bennett were named in the Mitchell Report for crying out loud! Those are among the most random people to be PED users I've ever seen! What happens if it comes out that Skip Schumaker(first name I could think of) used PEDs? What proof do you use to boot him off the roster? The word of some reporter with an axe to grind? A guy who worked out with him one time a few years ago in Podunkville Gym?
I'm not saying that the Cardinals or any other team needs to just throw their hands up in the air on this one. They need to do whatever they can to educate their players on the dangers of PEDs. They need to have strict penalties for anybody caught using (failed drug test). But they can't just start making decisions based on past PED use. It's the FO's responsibility to put a winning product on the field. That's it. No matter what we fans say about "class" or "professionalism" or whatever, that's just a collection of buzzwords that get in the way of objective business decisions. The Giants went to the WS with Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds on their team, and you didn't see SF fans up in arms b/c they were winning sans class.
For the record, I am a parent as well and see what you are saying about "protecting your kids" and what not. But that's our job, not the St. Louis Cardinals' job. Its frustrating knowing that our kids are so hypnotized by TV and the crap they see on it. But it's my job to explain to them why what they see in unrealistic and innapropriate for real-life behavior. I'm lucky, b/c my two oldest kids are girls who play basketball and volleyball and could give a crap about baseball. But if my son ever wants to know why he shouldn't use 'roids, the first thing I plan to do is talk about Lyle Alzado and Chris Benoit.
BTW...This post is brutal. I started about 4 sentences with "but." What is wrong with me?
by redbirdnation8206 on
Jan 12, 2008 4:58 PM EST
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jill, I know how you feel...
by tbell61 on
Jan 12, 2008 8:43 PM EST
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It's not as though
I'm sure there's several Cardinals who have used PEDs in the past, beyond Ankiel and now Glaus. Just because they weren't named in the Mitchell report doesn't mean they were innocent.
I mean, Larry Bigbie for cryin' out loud. He should have got a refund from his dealer.
by stl tyler on
Jan 12, 2008 1:48 PM EST
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I care about it Jilsinmo
by ridgesee on
Jan 12, 2008 2:15 PM EST
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Well, thanks for replying to my concerns.
by jillsinmo on
Jan 12, 2008 2:24 PM EST
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Then stop watching baseball
by Jhusk on
Jan 12, 2008 11:50 PM EST
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ped-0-philes
by sportsman on
Jan 12, 2008 4:06 PM EST
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Good deal for both teams.
by maurerdj on Jan 12, 2008 1:49 PM EST 0 recs
I like it too
by mikedallas23 on
Jan 12, 2008 2:03 PM EST
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nice work la russa
however, i like this trade, if only to be done with the entire stupid soap opera.
at least it's not russell branyon...
by age3in82 on Jan 12, 2008 1:53 PM EST 0 recs
Rolen
by ICbirdfan on
Jan 12, 2008 2:09 PM EST
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I was so excited to see that Cards and Jays
This is a sideways move. Not a bad one, not particularly a good one.
We sure do like collecting PED users, though.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 12, 2008 2:03 PM EST 0 recs
Sideways
However, if you're looking at potential to improve, power and the removal of a major sourse of drama, then it's very much a positive move IMO.
by Big Red on
Jan 12, 2008 2:06 PM EST
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Honestly
by Hardcore Legend on
Jan 12, 2008 2:09 PM EST
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Good point
by Big Red on
Jan 12, 2008 2:12 PM EST
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great comment,
by ridgesee on
Jan 12, 2008 2:32 PM EST
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Beat me to it
After all we missed out on Darren Erstad.
But Bartolo Colon is still out there if need to get our Angel fix.
by That's a Winner on
Jan 12, 2008 2:50 PM EST
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Any Angels in the Outfield?
by jillsinmo on
Jan 12, 2008 3:30 PM EST
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I'm so infuriated with the Cardinals and Larussa
Where is the loyalty now with these new owners? I think the Cards need new owners that want to spend and win.
Trading Edmonds made some sense... But he was still a fan favorite and people came to the ballpark to watch Jimmy Baseball play the outfield like no one has played since the Say Hey Kid.
Now we trade Rolen, my personal favorite cardinal since Ozzie Smith. Why??? Because he plays the game correct, he works his tail off every game. He shows up everyday to win. He plays the hot corner like no one I have ever seen. And he doesn't show boat. How can we trade a borderline Hall of Famer like this? Just because he hates the manager... BTW Larussa is the one in the wrong here. He should have apologized for treating a veteran the way that he did. He just let the problem fester.
Larussa is a great manager. He is a Hall of Fame manager. But the Cardinals can win without Larussa, they cannot win without Scottie Baseball. His defense saved are horrible pitching staff. He was invaluable during our 06 World Series. He should have been the MVP actually.
I don't see the Cardinals filling many seats next year. The only reason to go is to watch Pujols hit and Wainwright pitch. The rest is going to be to hard to watch.
by jamieoverkamp on Jan 12, 2008 2:10 PM EST 0 recs
Amen
by ridgesee on
Jan 12, 2008 2:20 PM EST
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JED and Rolen...
i don't really know what "loyalty" means in the context of a multi-billion dollar industry, but i would suggest that JED and Rolen were the ones who were disloyal, by telling the organization that they didn't want to play for their manager any longer and asking for trades.
in my opinion, there is no reason to be upset with the Cardinals organization over these trades. they have improved the long-term chances for success, and probably the short-term chances as well (remember: JED's back-ups out-performed him last season). the Cardinals are trying to do right by the fans. the fans just need to understand that it's going to take a little time.
by kindred on
Jan 12, 2008 2:30 PM EST
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agreed...
by tbell61 on
Jan 12, 2008 8:48 PM EST
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wanna take
I love how for some fans loyalty is a one way street--it's the OWNERS that have to be loyal to the players and cater to their every need. Yeah, that's fair.
by beanocook on
Jan 12, 2008 3:01 PM EST
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Agree
by saladdays on
Jan 12, 2008 4:15 PM EST
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Loyalty...
by cardsrul on
Jan 12, 2008 4:25 PM EST
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I criticize him ridgsee...
- The current Scott Rolen is not a HOFer. He's barely above replacement level with the season he put up last year. He's not one of the 5 best third baseman currently playing in the major leagues and the list of the active elite at that position is awful short. (A-Rod, Chipper, Wright, M. Cabrera, A. Ramirez, that's it). Just look at the HOF standards ranking for Rolen at baseball-reference. He isn't remotely close right now. I don't see him ever getting back to 2003 or 2004 numbers...even if he did they wouldn't be markedly better offensively than Glaus.
- Both Rolen and LaRussa are in the wrong. Fault lies on both sides of the isle on this one; LaRussa for putting it out in the open, Scott for continuing to pout about it. Rolen was upset when he got benched in the playoffs? Tough shit Scott, your backup was hitting the hide off of the ball and was a better option at the time, it was simply a "better for the team" decision. A person who "plays the right way" would recognize that and not create a distraction for the team.
- Both Edmonds and Rolen asked to be traded. The team obliged. I don't remember Ozzie ever asking to be traded to a contender in his late years, but I'm sure that the team would have been happy to oblige him for his years of service. Loyalty is such a bunch of bullshit: Fans want players to be loyal to a team that lowballs them on money, and would cut them in a second if they stop producing. Fans want teams to be loyal to players even though fans have a quicker trigger than club management about poor play. Jeff Suppan got BOOED at a regular season game I was at in 2006. Let's stop pretending that loyalty means anything. It's business, let's treat it as such.
- Why would people not show up to watch this ballclub? Are you kidding? Fans love home runs, Glaus hits a lot of those. More than Rolen has hit in his career. There are a lot of young players with good upside, a potential superstar in the minors, and a 1st ballot HOFer on the roster. Saying you aren't going to watch is one thing, saying fans won't show up to watch this club is quite another.
by fourstick on
Jan 12, 2008 4:27 PM EST
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Good to hear from you fourstick
by ridgesee on
Jan 12, 2008 6:02 PM EST
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C'mon
I have grown so tired of fans trying to take the moral high ground, claiming the Cardinals have a moral obligation to field a PED-free team. I don't think this issue is a moral or emotional one, myself, but I suppose it is for some people. However, aside from the problems of knowing who took PEDs, for how long, their legality, and weight of the evidence, these concerns are a mile wide and an inch deep. I guarantee these "morally conscious" fans you allude to were cheering just as hard as anyone else when Big Mac was hitting monster HRs, when Rick Ankiel was hitting homers last year, and will be cheering along side everyone else if the Cards and their former PED-using players make the playoffs next year (or the year after that, or the year after that). Stand on your morals if you want and don't watch the team or cheer for suspected users -- but you don't simply get the benefit of standing on a moral high ground by making a post on a blog.
You can't have it both ways -- you can't make "emotional comments" based on "moral concerns" if those comments and concerns aren't backed up by facts and at the same time complain about other posters arguing against you. Emotional comments and "moral concerns" don't get a free pass -- they get the same treatment as all other posts on this site; all are open to scrutiny and debate.
by Ray Lankford on
Jan 12, 2008 6:41 PM EST
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You're right ray langford
by ridgesee on
Jan 12, 2008 7:00 PM EST
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I'm not trying to be snobbish...
by fourstick on
Jan 13, 2008 8:43 PM EST
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Lecturing...
I have posted on this site more than one time that I have always liked Scott Rolen as a player, and I wish him the very best in Toronto, but that doesn't mean the deal is bad for the team or for the players involved. I think everyone wins in this situation, except maybe the Blue Jays unless they get some cash in the deal.
by fourstick on
Jan 13, 2008 8:47 PM EST
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excellent, excellent
jamieoverkamp: as a teenager i had a similar emotional response when willie mcgee was traded. the following year it hurt seeing him in an a giants uni. maturity and time will remedy this. it ain't easy, but you'll get over it.
by _pistol_ on
Jan 12, 2008 8:36 PM EST
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Rolen was
As for him asking to leave, that doesn't preclude the issues the original poster raised wrt LaRussa. In fact, it strengthens it, if anything. Where you lay the blame there is another matter.
I'm more interested in the fact that the Cardinals brought LaRussa back knowing it would be an issue, no matter who is "right".
by plh903 on
Jan 13, 2008 1:11 AM EST
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The stats back me up on that one....
That is the definition of barely above replacement level.
Glaus' 2007 VORP: 20.5
Keep in mind both got hurt and had relatively the same amount of healthy AB's last season.
by fourstick on
Jan 13, 2008 8:51 PM EST
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I totally disagree
Rolen is being traded b/c his shoulder was hurt, got benched, and pouted about it for a year. The dude is a grown-ass man, not some little boy. Surely he should get about half of the blame with TLR for their relationship going into the shitter. I highly doubt he's being traded b/c he "doesn't show boat" as you suggest. I agree that TLR is in the wrong here too for not handling the situation a little more privately and in a more professional manner, but a 30+ year old man pouting and holding grudges is a bit problematic, don't you think?
I don't get what you're saying here RE: Edmonds. That the FO should have held on to him so the fans could see him go off into the sunset? The guy is a baseball player, not a zoo animal that you hold on to for the amusement of the fan base. He asked to be traded b/c he didn't want to be a platoon player at this point. If they HADN'T traded him, that would have seemed awful jealous for the FO. Besides, the Cardinals have several exciting/young players who are better than him right now. The FO owes it to the fans to put a good product out there, not to put a bunch of "aw shucks" fan favorites who stink on the field.
by redbirdnation8206 on
Jan 12, 2008 4:32 PM EST
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For crying out loud
Its great that you want to see Rolen and Edmonds retire as Cardinals, but they didn't want to. You can't hold that against the organization.
You think this year will be hard to watch? Yeah, maybe it will. But no more so than last year, when we had our heros Rolen and Edmonds.
I really don't mean to be offensive. Don't want to watch the Cards next year? Cool. Don't. But I'm willing to bet that as soon as the club can cultivate another great player, you'll start watching again and all this fuss over Rolen and Edmonds will be forgotten.
by Ray Lankford on
Jan 12, 2008 4:50 PM EST
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according to Cot's...
so, basically, the Cards are saving $12mn in 2010, although it looks like they'll be sending some cash over to compensate.
Glaus' OPS+ the past three seasons: 126, 122, 120. Rolen's OPS+ the past three seasons: 84, 126, 89.
Rolen's defense is only valuable if he's on the field, and he has averaged only 104 games played the past three seasons.
i think i like this deal. it continues Mo's trend of trying to get younger, and frees up some future cash. as a bonus, the TLR/ScoRo saga will finally be over.


