community projection results: matt clement
before we get to the clement numbers, a bit of news; the cards hired gary larocque as special ass't to the GM. larocque spent the last decade in the mets' organization, running the draft and farm system for most of that tenure. he got busted down a rank in september 2005 season amid a big front-office shakeup caused by the owners' dissatisfaction over the farm system's performance --- odd timing, in that homegrown products jose reyes, david wright, and aaron heilman all stepped forward as big-league contributors that year. there's a bit of discussion about his role with the mets over at Metsblog; check the comments thread.
other items:
- the cubs' ZIPS projections are up; in szymborski's view the cubs "aren't an elite organization, but I think they're still the best in the Central and don't have any gaping holes. . . . When I look at the roster, I feel like there are only a few players that Ed Wade would sign for the Astros, which is a Very Good Thing."
- idle speculation: according to the sf chronicle, the giants' negotiations with pedro feliz have run aground, which might cause them to "intensify trade talks for Scott Rolen, Joe Crede or any other third baseman who might be available."
- el alberto has an award named after him.
- dave cameron of USS Mariner breaks down the proposed adam jones for erik bedard trade and concludes: bad move for the mariners. jones is seattle's version of colby rasmus, so mentally substitute his name into the article in place of jones' and you have a cogent case for why the cards ought not to consider a trade of that type.
| GS | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | W | L | ERA | WHIP | |||
| b james | 15 | 95 | 89 | 43 | 82 | 10 | 6 | 5 | 4.17 | 1.389 | ||
| CHONE | 13 | 74 | 76 | 31 | 55 | 8 | -- | -- | 4.38 | 1.446 | ||
| VEB | 24 | 142 | 141 | 60 | 112 | 17 | 9 | 9 | 4.48 | 1.421 | ||
| PECOTA | 14 | 92 | 98 | 39 | 65 | 10 | 5 | 5 | 4.91 | 1.489 | ||
| marcels | n/a | 67 | 72 | 29 | 49 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 4.97 | 1.507 |
i can't find a ZIPS forecast for this player; i've got an e-mail in to dan szymborski and will add that to the table when he responds. the PECOTA forecast comes from last year's set of projections (the new ones aren't out yet) and i believe is indexed to fenway park; take it with a grain of salt. i include it only because clement hasn't pitched at all since that projection appeared; the numbers might not change all that much when PECOTA is updated for 2008. one final PECOTA caveat --- that projection assumes 11 relief appearances in addition to the 14 starts.
the comparison shows our projection to be wildly optimistic re the quantity of clement's pitching, if not the quality. i went back and compared our projection to my year-old review of rotator-cuff returnees; that, too, shows that we're counting on a lot from clement. very few pitchers returning from this surgery have ever posted a line like the one we're projecting for clement. it's not unprecedented, but it's uncommon.
however accurate our projection turns out to be, it as at the very least an internally consistent one. i plugged our numbers in to tangotiger's generic FIP formula; for those not familiar with the concept, FIP yields an estimate of a pitcher's era based on nothing more than homers, walks, strikeouts, and innings pitched. clement's FIP, based on our projected component numbers, is . . . . 4.48, identical to our projected era. right on the button. ah, the wisdom of crowds.
finally, the quintessential projector for matt clement was one of VEB's oldest posters, glennrwordman:
| GS | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | W | L | ERA | WHIP | |||
| VEB | 24 | 142 | 141 | 60 | 112 | 17 | 9 | 9 | 4.48 | 1.421 | ||
| wordman | 28 | 143 | 153 | 60 | 98 | 17 | 9 | 9 | 4.54 | 1.492 |
0 recs |
37 comments
Comments
Interesting debate on LaRocque
By the way, did anyone else who checked out that MetsBlog site find the nesting format less than friendly to the eye? I didn't care for it. Maybe it's just different from what I'm used to.
by the red baron on Jan 10, 2008 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree
by cardsgirl95 on Jan 10, 2008 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If nothing else
Agree on the Mets blog syle, hard to follow. Makes me once again thank the baseball gods for VEB.
by That's a Winner on Jan 10, 2008 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that IP projection is
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 10, 2008 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the labrum
by silent_bob on Jan 10, 2008 9:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Clement had the double-whammy
Many pitchers recover fine from labrum tears (see Carp, Izzy). Others don't do as well (see Morris). Rotator cuff tears are much, much more threatening to a pitcher's career. A full tear means you are almost certainly done.
The two together? I honestly cannot imagine that Clement will ever be effective again. That said, he'd still likely be an improvement over Kip Wells.
by Hungry Jack on Jan 10, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries
by Elvis on Jan 10, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who you callin' old?
I think he's going to last longer than most people think (fear).
I am guessing that he will become more of a pitch-to-contact guy, urged on by Dunc, and helped by the Birds' IF D. Sometimes, when his stuff eludes him, the contact will wind up over the fence. I also figured on a little less than an average of 5 1/3 per start. Which I think is reasonable.
I also think, despite the injury, there's still ~talent~ there, which is not necessarily the case with a lot of #4/5 guys, which is all he's expected to be.
And since I'm here, I can't tell you all how much I've learned from being here from nearly the beginning. I don't post a lot, primarily because my time to crunch numbers is limited, (and I don't wanna sound like a damn fool) but my understanding of the team I like has been immensely enriched by being on here since Eden.
by glennrwordman on Jan 10, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
quintessential
quin· tes· sence [kwin-tes-uhns]
-noun
- the pure and concentrated essence of a substance.
- the most perfect embodiment of something
and did i say you were one of the "oldest" posters? stupid grammar checker; that was supposed to be "one of the first posters" . . . . .
by lboros on Jan 10, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken
Albert Pujols is the Quintessential 1st baseman. (the most perfect embodiment of something). Ben Broussard is average. Got it!
As far as the old thing...not necessarily old, but, not young anymore, either!
Cheers...
by glennrwordman on Jan 10, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
quintessential
Bill: 'He was just being the quintessential Gambini!'
Stan: 'There goes the quintessential Norton.'
by _pistol_ on Jan 10, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moz
If we can't improve our 2008 big league roster, I hope he goes out and finds the best minor league coaches and instructors money can buy and spends some there. And then takes the BEST players available in the draft.
by Elvis on Jan 10, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I'm encouraged, much more so than the day that Antonetti decided to re-up with the Indians.
by airhad on Jan 10, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
9 - 9
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 10, 2008 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Crazy?
by gonzostl on Jan 10, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To quote FARK.com...
by cardsrul on Jan 10, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another great line...
by indakind on Jan 10, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be thrilled
The only game I've ever been to at Wrigley was a game he pitched against the Reds in early April, 2002. Though I was much younger and less knowledgeable than I am now, I remember being impressed with his stuff (kip w311z alertz!!11!) and thinking he would turn into a fine MLB pitcher. Maybe getting into STL is just what he needs??
by Mr Redbird on Jan 10, 2008 12:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Heck
by maddash1946 on Jan 10, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the cards signed a new player
here's his page at B-R
by lboros on Jan 10, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
by bukowski on Jan 10, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AAA
by dmb60614 on Jan 10, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's exactly what i was thinking...
by RosevilleRedbird on Jan 10, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Speez...
by cardzfanbub on Jan 10, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think this signing was meant
by showmejoe on Jan 10, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's a limited sample size
Don't see him finding playing time in St. Louis, but it isn't bad to stock talent at AAA either.
He must be really terrible defensively at 1B to get replaced by the human-out-creator Doug Mientkiewitz.
by fourstick on Jan 10, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could easily find playing time
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 10, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
phelps fielding
Unfortunately I'm not sure if that tells us anything other than that RZR is a poor tool for measuring small-sample-size 1B performance, though the fact that he played on the same team as Delgado in '03 and '04 and Phelps was used as a DH instead of Delgado might tell us something. Delgado is a poor 1B defender IIRC.
by SleepyCA on Jan 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they could spend the year converting him
by Red Blazer on Jan 10, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
by Mr Redbird on Jan 10, 2008 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols vs. ARod Chat on ESPN Right now
by bukowski on Jan 10, 2008 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That Roto bar on the side
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 10, 2008 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i totally forgot to put in my projections
i have no faith in matt doing any thing positive for the Cards. it's going to get ugly. early & often.
by gdm426 on Jan 10, 2008 4:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
By the way
by joker24 on Jan 10, 2008 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Clement 2007
I haven't done a 2008 projection for Clement yet (still running behind from holidays). But I just ran it and I get for 2008:
6-6, 4.63, 103 IP, 105 H, 12 HR, 48 BB, 76 K
by DSzymborski on Jan 11, 2008 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs


















