Game 137 Open Thread: September 6, 2007
by lboros on Sep 6, 2007 7:34 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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GAME TIME 1:10 CDT
let's begin with some good news: springfield came back from 2-run deficit to beat tulsa 4-3 in game 1 of the texas league semifinals, the first playoff-game victory in franchise history. allen craig hit the game-tying homer in the 6th; the go-ahead run scored later in the inning on a wild pitch with two outs. pj walters pitches game 2 in the best-of-5 series tonight.the st louis farm system's other playoff entrant, quad cities, lost 3-0 to beloit in the opener of the best-of-3 midwest league semis. the swing struggled to score runs for the last 3 weeks of the year and dropped their last 7 regular-season games. brandon dickson is the probable starter in tonight's elimination game.
more on both games at Future Redbirds.
back in january, the day after the cardinals signed mark mulder, i surveyed the records of pitchers returning from rotator-cuff surgery. went back and looked at it after mulder's start last night; it was a sobering reminder of how difficult it is to come back from this particular injury. a couple key passages from the post:
and was roger clemens.
| date of surgery |
age at surgery |
length of rehab |
date of return |
ip | h | r | er | bb | so | hr | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| scott elarton | 9/99 | 23 | 7 mos | 4/23/00 | 6 | 10 | 7 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 0 |
| casey fossum | 9/03 | 25 | 8 mos | 5/14/04 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 1 |
| aaron sele | 9/02 | 32 | 8 mos | 5/9/03 | 5.2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 4 | 1 |
| joey hamilton | 9/99 | 28 | 11 mos | 8/19/00 | 6 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 6 | 0 |
| orel hershiser | 5/90 | 31 | 12 mos | 5/29/91 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 0 |
| mark mulder | 9/06 | 29 | 12 mos | 9/06/07 | 4 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| pedro martinez | 9/06 | 34 | 12 mos | 9/03/07 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 0 |
| tony armas jr | 5/03 | 25 | 13 mos | 6/1/04 | 5.2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 7 | 1 |
| el duque | 5/03 | 37 | 14 mos | 7/11/04 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 1 |
| ramon martinez | 6/98 | 30 | 15 mos | 9/2/99 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 1 |
| carlos hernandez | 2/03 | 23 | 18 mos | 8/14/04 | 6 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 6 | 1 |
| bret saberhagen | 10/95 | 31 | 22 mos | 8/22/97 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0 |
| justin thompson | 8/99 | 26 | 72 mos | 8/18/05 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| dave fleming | 10/95 | 25 | n/a | n/a | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
i also went back to look at some synched video that carlos gomez put together last year, comparing mulder's mechanics of 2004 to those of 2006. to my eye, his delivery last night most closely resembled his 2006 delivery, pre-disabled list; i did not see him exploding toward the plate last night as he did back in 2004. after surpassing 90 mph on most of his pitches in the first inning (both on FSN's gun, and per Gameday), mulder steadily lost velocity as the evening progressed; by the 4th his fastball was in the mid-80s. with that type of stuff, he can only survive with flawless location --- and he can't be expected to have that after a 12-month layoff.
should he be in the rotation? does he give the cardinals their best chance to salvage the 2007 division title? too soon to answer that question after only one start. while last night's results weren't very good, i think it's reasonable to give him another start or two and watch for signs of improvement --- more consistent location, better velocity. if tony/dave carry through on the 6-man rotation idea, mulder's next start would come on september 11 at cincinnati; if they back off from that idea and go w/ 5 starters, he will start september 10 vs the cubs at wrigley --- not the guy i would pick for that assignment.
mike maroth i would not pick for any assignment, or at least not one that involves throwing a baseball. but maybe i'm underestimating the guy; i hope so. losing a key early-september series at home to the pirates is no way to go about winning a division --- not even the nl central.
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As for last night
Bernie has good info on what scouts thought
I was interested tonight in the observations of neutral and unemotional observers.
Scouts from other organizations.
Talked to two.
One whom I trust completely.
Verdict from them?
Surprised that Mulder had such good velocity, early. Thought he was ahead of where they'd assumed he'd be after extensive shoulder surgery. Thought his arm angle (elevation) was good.
Completely expected him to lose mph, because he's still building arm strength back. Not surprised by his lack of command; of course he isn't going to be sharp so soon. They think he should be poised to reemerge as a top-of-rotation guy next season, after he has a normal offseason of training and throwing. That wasn't the case this past winter.
This wasn't a disaster. People (some) are freaking out. Bottom-line results were bad, so the noise is understandable. But the way he threw early in first time back - encouraging. Big picture? He's healthy again. His arm motion is nice and easy. Bodes well for 2008.
But ...
Question: this is basically spring training for Mulder. Can the Cardinals afford to give him a spring training in September when every game is so important? One more start? Two? That's why TLR is paid so much to be the boss. To make these tough calls.
-B
-------------------------------------------
by TriplePlay on Sep 6, 2007 8:24 AM EDT reply actions
Tough Call
I wonder if
Gosh I hope Mulder is better next year. I'm trying to tell myself he's only 30, he's got lots of baseball left in him...it's really not working. I have that semisick feeling about Rolen, too. If I were DeWitt, I'd probably drop by Jock's office and say, "Let's work on a new strategy, here, Walter. I call it, 'Let's not sign/extend injured players or players with extensive injury histories. Or at least not as much.'"
Who are you referring to?
If we miss the post season this year I see us doing the following: Dropping So, trading/replacing Flores with a better LOOGY, getting a reliable starter to augment Wainwright in case Mulder doesn't pan out, trading an OF bat (possibly for one of the above needs), acquiring a RH OF power bat, acquiring a new SS (I don't know if they trust Ryan to perform at this level next season, and with Atlanta looking to offload Renteria I think this could be a more fluid SS market then it looks like {I am not saying we trade for Edgar just that if he is traded that it might cause a ripple effect}), and assuming that Spiezio is back I don't think we do anything with 3B just yet.
If we make the playoffs you can kiss the impact players out of that list most likely.
Perhaps I am mistaken
Now, I obviously agree that Walt doesn't deliberately sign us injured or about to be injured players, but I'm saying I think the brain trust isn't doing a bang-up (har, har) job of taking injury probability into account in player acquisitions. The situation with Carpenter last offseason is another aspect--it is pretty bad that no one found out about that elbow beforehand. Hasn't he had a history of elbow spurs? Was that not the report in April?
It just makes my blood run cold to think about getting Chris Carpenter when we got him, injured the way he was, and expecting him to be our ace on into the indefinite future. Uh-uh. I don't have the stomach for it. I'm glad it worked out as well as it did last year, but I wouldn't roll those dice. The Cards will have paid for a lot of years of not having Chris Carpenter pitch. I just hope 2008 is the last year of it.
And
Where does this
I wasn't very clear.
I did not remember how low his original contract was, I apologize.
Rolen/Carp
Even the two years he played fewer games, he hit 26 home runs each of the two years, so when he was playing, he was very effective.
Carpenter, as Valatan said, was signed at a minimum level contract and was not expected to be an ace, but just a pretty good pitcher if he ever got his health situation in order. 500k a year for a couple years in exchange for a Cy Young season and a 2nd place is pretty good, despite his injury since being extended.
Your last question is exactly
I have no idea what's going on. Sure, I know the team is ONLY back 2 games, but we really don't have ANY games to give away. If this was June or July or even the beginning of August, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But we're giving games away to see if these guys can pitch.
by Big Red on Sep 6, 2007 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Just to let you guys know...
I agree with what you said though. But...I can see why they did it.
Anyways, i'm not all that bummed about his start, he has velocity back, he just completely lacked location and that is to be expected when you haven't pitched to major leaguers in over a year.
The outing bodes well for 08 Mulder
by TriplePlay on Sep 6, 2007 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
When Reyes and Wells are throwing up
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Maroth has had his tryout
Mark Mulder
If the Cards stand 2 games out of first and are
If the team is just going to punt their starting rotation and loose winnable games to poor teams because they are still trying in September who their best five starters are, then why has the organization wasted much time and numerous opportunities pursuing the 2007 post season when clearly they should be focusing on 2008?
Those questions should be
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the first sentence.
Well, you're right, most of the strange decisions
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
PS
Agree
Bottom line, I just glad we still have the opportunity to be playing meaningful games in September.
....07-08
An outfield and relief surplus to choose from with Springer (and most likely Izzy) wanting to return is a giant plus.
Outside of SS, the potential 3/4/5 starters will bring a lot of focus to the off season talk depending on Mulder and Carpenter, but Im ok with this team taking a shot at the playoffs. I think theres some breath left in these guys and I want to see them beat the Cubs (into the ground). After seeing Jaun go down, they all know how important every day on the field is in this life.
by cardschinmusic on Sep 7, 2007 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
PS:
by cardschinmusic on Sep 7, 2007 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
.......uhhhh......
by cardschinmusic on Sep 7, 2007 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I was shouted down yesterday
I have great tickets for today's game, and truthfully, I wince at the thought of sitting through a Maroth start. We're all pretty sure that he'll do no better than Mulder and we're also fairly certain that he'll sloooow the game down to a crawl once he walks the leadoff batter each inning.
Thought about going today
Tickets
Not exactly
http://www.stubhub.com/?event_id=350224&flash=0&flash8=1
Cheapest tickets are still $.50 both sections that have em are on the 1st base side right at the end of the IF dirt on the 4th level. But Stubhub will charge you a $15 "handling fee" (well worth it actually) to get your tickets to a pick up center no later then 2 hours before the game. so it ends up being $8 per ticket.
$8 per ticket
I would be pissed
by Handsome B Wonderful on Sep 6, 2007 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW
(Note: Real reason cardsgirl95 doesn't like 12 year-old pitchers is because fresh faced kids like that always seem to shut down the Cards' bats)
I've got to see Bullington pitch
I hope you're right
I know everyone assumes that
Run out a 5 man rotation of Wainwright, Looper, Pinero, Reyes, and the best of Wells/ Wellemeyer.
Then use Mulder out of the pen, where he might maintain his velocity better in each start and build up his arm strenght while at the same time allowing the Cards to add a valuable 1 or 2 inning reliever that could shorten games for the back of the rotation to 4 or 5 inning affairs.
not a bad suggestion
One other note
While no one understands why Maroth is back, I seriously wonder whether this whole Maroth back to the rotation thing combined with Mulder is LaRussa playing the numbers games, figuring that whether he throws Wells, Reyes, Maroth, or Mulder against the Cubs, all have a good chance of struggling because they have been (or are expected to be) inconsistent, but at least Maroth and Mulder are lefties and might have some type of advantage that Wells and Reyes do not possess.
Probably
I brought this up in a post yesterday
How can you say
Ummm
A. Leave Reyes in the rotation
B. Add someone like Thompson or Wellemeyer in place of Wells.
Then it seems to me like it is an open question why either a 5 or 6 man cardinal rotation contains Maroth.
Lineup predictions
Edmonds will sit, Dunc, Ankiel and Ludwick will start (maybe Skippy over Dunc but not sure).
Ryan will start, Eck who hasn't had a day off in awhile will sit, Branyan and Miles will start or maybe Barden.
Pujols and Molina will both start, they both got a few innings off last night already.
Ryan, Ankiel, Pujols, Duncan, Ludwick, Molina, Branyan, Maroth, Miles is what I think we go with.
You may have noticed..
How about they sign Torii Hunter
because Rasmus is a center fielder...
by TriplePlay on Sep 6, 2007 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice but unlikely
Dream bigger......ARod for shortstop......
That should help Dunc.
Useful? LF? Dunc?
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on
He has
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
On Mulder's velocity
It may not be an issue going forward, as he throws and tires, but it might be something to watch as well.
according to FSN
Early on
There may even have been what appeared to be a poorly thrown slider.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
PitchFx Data
First inning:
Fastballs: 7, 92.2 mph avg., 93.2 mph max.
Curves?: 1, 74.1 mph avg. 74.1 mph max.
Slider?: 1, 88.7 mph avg., 88.7 mph max.
Second inning:
Fastballs: 17, 89.3 mph avg., 91.7 mph max.
Curves?: 1, 72.1 mph avg. 72.1 mph max.
Slider?: 2, 84.7 mph avg., 85.3 mph max.
Third inning:
Fastballs: 6, 88.6 mph avg., 89.6 mph max.
Curves?: 2, 70.4 mph avg. 70.4 mph max.
Slider?: 2, 85.0 mph avg., 85.1 mph max.
The fastballs were pretty easy to identify. What I'm calling a slider is a pitch that drops a little more that a fastball and moves into a right-handed batter but doesn't drop or move as much as what I'm calling a curve.
You can see the drop in velocity as the game goes on.
Unless Albert breaks out of this extended funk ...
1 rbi in his last 41 ab.
1 xbh in his last 41 ab.
13 rbi going back to July 31.
Signed,
Sick-And-Tired-Of-Losing-To-Grade-Z-Starters
I guess Pujols on 1 leg
I'd love for the Cardinals to go '5 blades' on the Pirates today and throw out this lineup:
Ryan SS
Schumaker CF
Ankiel RF
Ludwick LF
Branyan 3B
Duncan 1B
Molina C
Maroth P
Miles 2B
Alittle speed, alittle power, alittle contact. Defensive upgrades in CF, RF, SS. Downgrades at 1B
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks ok.
When Pujols hit the double last night it looked like he stopped to watch it for a second. Man just run. That stuff drives me nuts. I can see why the FSN Pitt announcers (Wehner) was taking shots at him.
by paCardsFan on Sep 6, 2007 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe,
In the minors Bullington had more ER from righties but gave up almost exactly the same hits to both sides with a higher avg to lefties and MANY more walks to lefties.
I like that lineup a lot and I could see us playing small ball and long ball with it as well since Ryan, Schu, Ank all have nice speed and your 2-6 spots all have decent HR power.
That was also the lineup I wrote down last night
I don't know if he's having a problem with injury or confidence or what, but he looks terrible out there and he's costing our pitchers. We need solid defense. And all of those people above can give that, plus most will give us much better offense. Plus, Duncan has looked strong at first base. Maybe he's just not cut out to be a fielder. Or maybe right now is not the time to work on his fundamentals in the outfield.
by nycardfan on Sep 6, 2007 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Dunc to Det
Had the Cards won last night
rotation plans (mayhem)
It sounds like Kip's spot next week is still very much undecided and no one is being prepared for that start with a normally scheduled bullpen session. The starter may end up taking his bullpen session in today's game as a relief pitcher.
Adding more uncertainty into the mix, today's game could turn into a kind of "relief competition" between Thompson, Wells, and Reyes. "If one of those guys helps us win this game (today), we'll use him."
Oddly, the paper did not mention Welleymeyer as a potential candidate. If LaDunc want to determine the next starter through relief appearances, then why not choose Welleymeyer and begin preparing him properly? He has already proven in a couple of appearances that he can pitch effectively.
This seems unfair to all the pitchers mentioned and unwise in terms of carefully (not to mention calmly) preparing them for Sunday's game.
Thompson and Reyes are roughly on schedule to start tonight, but they have not had a midweek bullpen session to prepare them for this kind of "competition" for a future start. Reyes has never even worked from the bullpen and so how is that fair to him?
Wells, schedule wise, is best suited for a relief stint since this is close to his normal bullpen session and he has some experience working from the pen. But since he was booed off the field, it doesn't seem like it would be good to throw him back out there in front of the lions in order to compete for the job.
Adding to the confusion, Duncan said about Reyes, "We don't think right now it's fair to Anthony to stick him out there throwing the way he's throwing," So why did you mention him as one of the three who may be competing for that starting position in tonight's game? All these pitchers must be completely confused and unsettled.
For the pitcher's and the team's sake, I wish they would simply choose someone and prepare them in a normal way.
This uncertainty seems to be caused by the decision to use Maroth, who was rushed through rehab (having had only 2 minor league appearances, the longest being 2.2 innings).
Last night would have been the perfect time to test Maroth. Once the game was no longer on the line, we could have put him out there and seen what he was capable of. If he failed, then we would have ruined one night. But now, the saga goes on....
by nycardfan on Sep 6, 2007 10:21 AM EDT reply actions
yep, "confused and unsettled"
CA-CHING-------
Lineup
- Eckstein, SS
- Ankiel, CF
- Pujols, 1B
- Ludwick, RF
- Duncan, LF
- Molina, C
- Miles, 2B
- Maroth, P
- Ryan, 3B
In agreement...
either that or tell the opposing pitcher
does anybody know where Hobbs hit in the order for the Knights? I'm glad to see tly give him a shot at CF, but next he should go ahead an bat him clean-up.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Roy batted 4th
by Yank Robinson on Sep 6, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Pirates:
Bautista 3B (RH)
Sanchez 2B (RH)
Phelps 1B (RH)
Bay LF (RH)
Pearce RF (RH)
Wilson SS (RH)
Maldonado C (RH)
Bullington P (RH)
Looks like a full RH lineup versus Maroth save the leadoff man.
RH have a .354/.407/.627 1.034 OPS
LH have a .291/.392/.500 .892 OPS
Lets hope he can move that RH line down some.
Good
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
fickle finger of fate
so after the miraculous string of quality starts we get to september with a chance and a prayer. then Wells does his imitation of that player not-to-be-named, see Betty meet Boop. Enc gets taken down by an unjust foul off the bat of Miles, and the return of Mulder proves that september returns from tommy john are as unlikely as they are improbable. meanwhile, the bats continue to demonstrate no support for the has-beens and never-weres, by failing to produce against the least likely of the wanna-bees.
may the clouds disperse, and the sun shine on our chances today.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Mulder had rotator cuff surgery
by cardsfaninmass on Sep 6, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for clarifying
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Why??
He still has a little hitch in his giddyup though. It was much more pronounced (to me) in the later innings. His first inning was much smoother, much more fluid.
He just lost his mechanics. That'll happen less and less as he gains strength.
+1
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think...
i didn't say "failed"
and should anybody expect much better in six days, they need to lighten up. i want him to pitch, and i want him to rediscover old ways. and if he can't find it fast enough to be a positive factor for this season, too bad. the faults of this season are not on Mulder, even if we miss the pay offs by the narrowest of margins.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh...so what is the deal with Pujols' and his bats
Well, this is from Birdbats blog:
September 5, 2007. I was re-watching last night's game on the DVR and noticed at the end of the 7th inning, when the camera zoomed in on Edmonds' bat, it wasn't Jim's model. The bat was made for someone on the Washington Nationals; it looks like Robert Fick's signature. Also, it's an unusual model -- a US7, or U87 or U67 -- difficult to tell for sure... After going hitless with Max Bat last night, Albert switched back to Marucci. On the year, Albert is hitting .143 using Max Bat, .338 with Marucci...
So, what is the deal? Is it corked? Is it a mental thing? What?
We're going to see the Maroth...
I know it.
by longhornscardinals on Sep 6, 2007 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
Larry, as far as track records
Jason Schmidt
His next major league start was May 11, 2001.
His line:
IP H R ER BB SO HR Pit
5.2 3 0 0 2 5 0 94
He had a 9 month turn around, that included some setbacks in the early spring.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Mulder's surgery was to repair
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Schmidt
Schmidt has been disabled with shoulder problems six times as a Major Leaguer and underwent surgery in 2000 by Dr. James Andrews for labrum and rotator cuff damage.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting numbers by Goold over at Bird Land
Or is this a hitting coach problem? Poor preparation?
McRae should have been fired in May
Everything we hit up the middle is turned into a DP and Chris Duncan is looking at fastballs down the middle.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ricky Rick
delay
Tarp coming off
scratch that
Tarp back on
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's been partly sunny all morn
Seriously...
A Wish
Soriano lead-off homer
We used to have quite a few of those...
Not that I wish a return to 1993...
Soriano shouldn't lead off
Yeah, but...
It's hard to pay a guy $135 million without getting a $135 million ego.
Martin GG this year
I think Yadi deserves one but I think this year it will go to Martin.
38th CS for Martin
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No update on the radio
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Patience, my man
The Cubs will lose thanks to Marquis giving up 8 runs in 4 innings, the Brewers lose after Suppan gives up 9 runs in three innings, thenon his way back into the dugout he rips his Brewers jersey off to reveal he was wearing a Cards shirt underneath this whole time, and the Cards win 3-1 to take the division.
Seriously, have some patience. It'll happen.
He mispoke
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's coming down hard in Clayton now
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Radar looks good to me.
good to see you on here Hardcore
Oh yeah
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Betty with a no hitter thru three!
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
Has anybody put odds to Renteria for next year?
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You can do better than that
As for Eck, I think we've seen his down turn, have a prospect to cover, and they could let him go to keep an opening for Renteria. But, house wisdom being what it is, I'd put odds of his return close to 50%.
That said, and you're right that the odds for Renteria lie between the two, I 'd venture that they could be as high as 20%.
So does Redbird have hopes, or just a sign line?
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Where are we gonna get the money?
All those guys were here then
if they want him, they can afford him. I don't know what they want, or what the odds are of them even trying to go for it.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's 2:13
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
hows the weather looking??
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
Marquis
2004
He has done this before first year with us he was great then declined each year. If he was with us he would have been Wells like probably, good deletion regardless but great so far for Cubbies.
agree with everything you said
agree with that too
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
the joy of the jinx
He's been better than he was in 2006...
If Jason Marquis throws...
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
Jason Marquis has a perfect game.
That oughta do it...
What do you mean retroactively?
I took that as a...
maybe, but you had to write it
is there a way to delete these types of posts once they served their purpose?
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The radar shows no more rain
Just go out there and throw.
Usually bodes well
GO CARDS!
Gameday
Stupid Texas and their no Cardinal broadcasts rule!
if they don't get this in soon....
by Birds on the Matt on Sep 6, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions
Bruce Froemming
Gametime info.
Weather: 75 degrees, rain.
Wind: 8 mph, Out to LF.
first pitch to bautista
Pitch 2 was 5 ft outside and a strike!
ugh!
Saving Gas
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions
soft tosser
So far he has given up a bloop, grounder up the middle and a walk and has 2 pop up outs. Not really bad but he has to pitch inside more and not let 3 baserunners reach in the same innings.
i thought that grounder to ss was three down
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
I'm going to say this as gingerly as possible
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
but this is the same guy
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that was close
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions
LIne-up
R'ank is in center
C-dunc in left but imissed who is in right.
with bullington
i can't even watch when maroth pitches. dude throws like my grandma...
Yeah
dang
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
Maroth's velocity ...
Give 'im credit
Cards have hit the ball hard so far today... good sign
walk to albert...
How the heck did pujols go first to third?
Yadi
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
2 out rbi's are the best
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions
whoooo hoooo
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions
...and molina
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
I cant see what happened because of gameday,
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate Magloth
Also, the other night the Bob Walk said the Cardinals had Joel Panera pitching all night but I swear it looked like Joel Pineiro.
Weird.
how about...
Tide turning
Maroth gives up 3, 2 out singles and gives half the lead back.
In a matter of 5 minutes, our fortunes could change yet again. AHHHH!
C'mon Mikey
C'mon you Cardinals!
Maroth needs to get this 3rd out
Location
What do TLR and Duncan see in this guy
Soriano HR
4-2 Cubs
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The worst part is that Dempster
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
not really getting hit hard
by longhornscardinals on Sep 6, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
man
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
Tony agrees...
Come on Maroth...
changing pitchers already?
Exactly
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 6, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't count on that. Any other organization
Lemon Law
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not from Detroit.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, we all saw this coming, didn't we?
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
WTF?
bad to worse...
http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html
After Soriano's 2nd jack to give the Cubs the lead
I'm not feeling well.
I'll head out in the 3rd for the cards
by rudie on Sep 6, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
One more Job Interview
And Mulder watching that fist inning had to be thinking, geez, I could've thrown that slow.
Even McKay could've thought he could get a tryout.
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
WHEW!
Is Maroth Detroit's revenge?
LaRussa's employers are
Good Job Barden
Why is Percival warming up
My money's on Miles...
6-man rotation?
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 4:27 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah but look at the schedule
Sat - Looper
Sun - Pineiro
Who do you throw against the Cubs? Reyes or Mulder? Then, against the Reds the next day, who do you throw? Thompson or Reyes or Mulder?
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
is the gameday guy
by jeff abs on Sep 6, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply actions
Good bunt, Eck
HOLY CRAP
2nd 3rd
by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 6, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
Rick Freaking Ankiel
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
Ankiel
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions
Seems like each time I get really bummed out
The limp is back
Pujols
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm beyond excitement
Limping
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's all he hurt
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He's pissed because
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Trotting...
Dodgers just got one back...
Dunno
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd give it to Kelvin
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much
No
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.
Basically if the starter doesn't 5 innings then the most effective reliever gets the win.
Sounds like we should be looking to get him
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick's immune to the "unknown pitcher"
Its working, and working well.
Do you think
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 6, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Can anyone explain to me
Already did
Yep, but he often tries to pull
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
His very first HR
didnt yall know?
by longhornscardinals on Sep 6, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Nice catch, Rick.
Ank
no
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 6, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a fine play...
Ankiel has reached base
That includes three games in which he came in late and only got one plate appearance---he reached all three times!
The dollar signs in Scott Boras' head
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Boras
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? If so, it's music to my ears.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Percival batting
John Rooney of Molina groundball should go
"Molina hits a swinging bunt to the shortstop. It comes to a complete stop, AND NOW THE BALL HOPS UP IN THE AIR, JACK WILSON DIVES WITH HIS BAREHAND AND IT GETS AWAY. In comes Bautista, who does a standing front flip, picks it up HE SPINS THREE TIMES AND THEN DOES A LEG SWEEP. Bautista is going to take this one to 1st base for the 6-4 putout."
Loney at the plate
Loney is up
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Error by Lee on tough DP ball
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ETHIER!!!
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Did they give Lee an error?
Yes, he did get an error.
1st and 2nd, no outs.
Come on Dumpster, blow it
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 6, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
3 run jack!!!
Okay Dempster
the dempster of the days of yore
by oh quen do it on Sep 6, 2007 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
still 0 outs top 9!
GO DODGERS!
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Never thought I'd see...
How the heck was that a check swing?
albert's hammy
I hope so
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Saito has allowed 8 runs all year
5 innings
I think you can maybe have Springer go 1, Franklin 2, and Izzy 1, but that still leaves another inning. I just don't trust anyone else in the bullpen right now.
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 4:56 PM EDT reply actions
Thompson is in the pen
reply to this
by yer dog first on Sep 6, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot about Wellemeyer.
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading the live comments at times like these
Dodgers 1st and 3rd 2 out
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 6, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions
I have the radio on
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumpster hasn't blown a save in months...
Flubs fans are right there with mets, yanks and bosox fans as the least classy in all baseball
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 6, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't he blow one
Too bad I wasn't at home today watching the game. Dang.
I know a several nice ones, . . .
"Flubs fans are right there with mets, yanks and bosox fans as the least classy in all baseball"
It was almost enough to make you feel sorry for Zambrano the other day. Earlier this week I had to explain that mess to my nephew up by Chicago. I found myself not completely disagreeing with Z's initial expressions of being hurt and betrayal by the fans. I found myself completely disagreeing with the part of his next-day apology in which Z said Cubs fans were the best fans in the world.
Almost, but not quite, sorry for Zambrano.
by Nelson Brockabrella on Sep 6, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Eckstein keeps screwing Ryan
Take a pitch for pete's sake.
7-4
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 6, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions
Walking Ankiel to get to Pujols
Did the Pirates just walk Ank`
Man ... talk about respect!
by thomaslj on Sep 6, 2007 5:02 PM EDT reply actions
I think that's called...
Holy plate discipline Batman!
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 6, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel's WPA
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Cardinals&season=2007
He'll be 3rd after today if he doesn't give up too much later in the game.
Pujols finally gets an RBI
ankiel in Center
Looks pretty good
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Not good but not bad
"Limping"
This must be akin to the 'three nights in august' elbow scenario where Tony is just freaking out hoping he won't blow out his hammy....
Just went first to third and should've been out by a mile, but wasn't....as long as he knows when and how to push it, I guess it will be fine...
Just got back from class
Ankiel has been unreal on this homestand.
FSN just showed a series of up-the-middle hits, which suggests McRae's approach might not be so bad after all.
Best case scenario for today: Cards win, Cubs lose, Albert gets to rest for part of the game, and Tony/DD realize Maroth needs to stay in the pen.
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 5:08 PM EDT reply actions
Stan the Man
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I love watching the losers at BCB cry...
by TriplePlay on Sep 6, 2007 5:08 PM EDT reply actions
Other than "Cards win"
Nah, I didn't think so either.
Here's hoping the Buccos can help us say that three more times this weekend.
The Riot
1.5 games back. Let's make it one game... again!
Why would you intentionally walk..
I guess the same reason you intentionally walk Ankiel to get to Pujols?
that's why
Hey, great inning though..
game
trying to follow at work is hard.
thanks
Not sure on pen
Izzy
OK, I'll put down the tranks now...
by glennrwordman on Sep 6, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like that idea
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing works for me while I'm at work
I use mlb Gameday at home, and it works quite well. It's usually only about 15 seconds behind real-time action.
I've been disappointed ESPN and Yahoo both. Never tried CBSsportsline though.
Up 4
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
outfield
the outfield
on BCB
Sucks that both teams are losing (or may be losing) key guys down the stretch . . .
Yeah I don't relish...
I hate that...
Looks like it's a rumor
I will never, never, never, wish an injury on
Not to further stoke...
--------------
I am SO OVER the Ankiel feel-good story.
Can't we pay off his therapist to screw him up again?
by lancaster99 on Thursday, September 6, 2007 at 3:30 PM CT
---------------
Just bean him twice at the plate
Guaranteed he'll forget how to hit, just like he forgot how to pitch.
by SackMan on Thursday, September 6, 2007 at 3:35 PM CT
-----------------
At some point
There will be a book on this punk and he'll get shut down again.
by lancaster99 on Thursday, September 6, 2007 at 3:33 PM CT
------------------
Rick Ankiel? I thought he was a feel good story when he got steve blass disease....
by BigJimSlade on Thursday, September 6, 2007 at 3:33 PM CT
Things like this...
to be fair
Al is a good guy
lancaster99 is regarded by most BCB'ers as bottom rung stuff. He hates the Cardinals with a passion and often makes ridiculous statements that the other's seem to shake their heads at.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Feel-Good Overplayed
I'm cheering him on as a great young player who's playing well day-in, day-out and spuring us towards the playoffs. He's always on the good side of our future outfield discussions, not because he used to be a pitcher, but because he's contributing now (and by now, I mean his 2nd HR today).
Even I don't Believe It!!!!
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply actions
Bye Bye Soriano
usually gameday seems good
by oh quen do it on Sep 6, 2007 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
It's kind of fitting...
The Natural is on pace for a 63 HR season
9 more
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That's some pretty spread-out production
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
I'm laughing at anyone
Most hits in a game
We have 18, now? In the 5th? We need 4 of each of the next 3 innings to tie.
Ha
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe Schumaker made the third out
by thomaslj on Sep 6, 2007 5:44 PM EDT reply actions
with a nine-run lead
Reyes
he should do a bullpen session in this game
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
this would be an ideal time
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 5:49 PM EDT reply actions
i thought they just said he was warming up
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Right on cue
by redbirdnation8206 on Sep 6, 2007 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
Pujols isn't still playing, is he?
why did cairo pinch hit?
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Brendon Ryan
Haha j/k but seriously he reminds me of a mix between those two.
Hit another one Roy!
Just missed
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Developing an awesome RBI/G ratio
29 RBI / 23 G = 204 RBI / 162 G
by Nelson Brockabrella on Sep 6, 2007 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel w/ a 2 run double
Why is Albert still in the game?
Can anyone explain
this is when it would be good to have spiezio
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
i would have said...
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The weather's perfect...
(Looks at Gameday...)
Or at least it could have happened that way. I'll take a double.
I'd rather see the skies open up
Save some runs for the D'Backs, you Redbirds!
maybe branyan can play first?
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Wow
He'll bat again
We may challenge the total bases record today too.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Unlikely...
Rain is coming...
Taguchi in CF
by Nelson Brockabrella on Sep 6, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
WHY
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:12 PM EDT reply actions
Pujols has more versatility
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He needs to get a rythm going..
Reyes is in
i wish
reyes in, 7th inning, 16-3 cardinals. ill take 7 innings, 3 runs from reyes.
by longhornscardinals on Sep 6, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply actions
Rick Ankiel was 1 Run away from
Good to see him get these last 2 innings off.
Reyes's stretch recovery
by Nelson Brockabrella on Sep 6, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't 'horrible'
I'm sure that is because he can't throw inside with effectiveness but he missed more bats than Mulder did.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Sort of but not really
Jimenez deserves a lot of credit...
That was clutch...
Doubt it
No...
Maroth blew the lead, and Jimenez was the pitcher of record when the Cardinals took the lead for good.
Actually there is.
No.
Otherwise it's always pitcher of record, no discretion involved, period.
STOP WALKING PEOPLE
Get Thompson some work
by CardFaninVA on Sep 6, 2007 6:34 PM EDT reply actions
Just hit his arm with a lead pipe
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats up with you?
Wonderbrad
Brad Thompson?
That's how sinkerballers work. The more tired they get the better the sink.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 6, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's tack on a few more...
just call the freaking game
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:43 PM EDT reply actions
He hit Phelps.....it actually looked like the
am i missing something???
by willievinceterry on Sep 6, 2007 6:49 PM EDT reply actions
that can't be right
9 for 20 at the start of the day
Question.
by champion on Sep 6, 2007 6:55 PM EDT reply actions
I think
I don't get that...
Unless his walk rate improves
I like Ryan and at the least he'd make a good utility infielder but I'm still not sold on him as an everyday player. I can understand why the Cardinals would be hesitant to hand him the starting job at SS.
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood
"Justifiable's got nothin' to do with it."
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 6, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
freaky boxscore
what a game!
by Rentboy on Sep 6, 2007 7:02 PM EDT reply actions
Hey ump.....
that's a winner
by Rentboy on Sep 6, 2007 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
And That's A Winner!
great game gents. only saw from the 5th inning on, but i liked what i saw. at least from the O.
the fact that the Cards are 1 freakin game back in the central is an act of GOD. seriously after every thing they've been though, it's a miracle.
tighten those seats belts folks. the roller coaster ride contines out in the desert.
My laughing
I seriously think some of the folk in here have a bit too much time on their hands and spend entirely too much time worrying about this team. To you I say, go get some fresh air, try a date and watch the highlights. I am a hardcore fan, but there are more important things than the Birdos. We don't need to pick a part every play do we? Can't we just look at the big picture? Let's enjoy the ride and let's have fun.
And one more thing....when we don't like something Tony does we give him a lot of grief. Why can't we praise him when praise is due? He yanked Mikey at the first sign of trouble and the rest of his moves panned out. So let me say good job Tony.
If you think we've got it bad
Totally agree!!!!
I only read these dumb game posts after the game, especially bad games, to make me feel better about myself, since I can be relieved I dont think like some of the 'fans' that like to post 'thoughts' during the game, and after every out we make.
Dont get me wrong I love BCB, but these game threads are either all giddy or all suicidual, depending on whether the Cubs are winning or losing. Take a hint from me, your day will go much smoother if you dont read these threads as the game is going, it makes me sick to read the posts and follow the action on Gameday.
by BigZ 4 Cy on Thursday, September 6, 2007 at 4:40 PM CT
[ Parent ]
by Birds on the Bat on Sep 6, 2007 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Go visit the Reds site sometime too......
For the P.J. Walters fans
by Some witty name on Sep 6, 2007 8:42 PM EDT reply actions
Not a Cards fan, but.....
by the taxman on Sep 6, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the props
by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 6, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
La Russa is 7 for 11
by MDGrady314 on Sep 6, 2007 11:04 PM EDT reply actions
Now let's hope
APu
and i agree like others why was he in in a route?
oh and a rey oy vey
OH SHIT
WTF
Is it crazy that...
Besides, anyone can see that the real key to his comeback has been completely ridding himself of any facial expressions except a perpetual sneer.
Also
I wouldn't say...
so the report says
This story reeks
I bet there are probably over 100 players they could do the same story with from 2003-2004. Kind of fishy they choose Rick (the same day he hit 2 home runs and gets 7 rbi) as the Cards are getting close to another possible play-off run.
I swear there are some guys that have a heavy ax to grind with the Cards up North.
Heavy Axe
by yer dog first on Sep 7, 2007 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i know you're right--
and i kinda wonder how i would feel if the story was about soriano or fielder (okay, braun--we all know the only thing fielder's been injecting is doughnuts). i know i wouldn't be as quick to defend them as innocent until proven guilty.
anyway, sure puts a damper on what had been a banner day--slaughter win for us, come-from-ahead loss for the cubs.
ugh.
What's funny
This won't stick
The hype will be exposed; the story will be put in context. It may take a few days—hopefully Ankiel doesn't let it get to him. He's worked hard to be where he is and deserves to be there.
You're dreaming...
the worst part...
I gave up on trusting these people to inform me about the Cards a long time ago and began believing in local, loyal yet critical journalists like Bernie, Gould, Burwell, Hummel, and the like to keep me informed. Right or wrong, at least they do their due diligence.
Can that be said about an ESPN and / or NY Daily News reporter at 4am EST on a Friday? I lived in Manhattan for 2+ years, and came to loathe the lack of credible and honorable journalism in that city outside of the NYTimes.
Play on Ankiel! Those of us who wear red salute you!
by getupbaby51 on Sep 7, 2007 4:23 AM EDT reply actions
Bernie's take is pretty good on the Ankiel thing
Bernie basically says, there can be no defense now because there is no test for the stuff but regardless he did absolutely nothing wrong if he even took the stuff when he did. It is being claimed he had a prescription as well, I think his name is being drug through the mud for no reason.
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