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Game 136 Open Thread: 6 September, 2007

Armas, Jr.

Marky Mark

2-5, 6.75

No Record

GAME TIME 7:10 CDT

As I stated in today's morning post, I strongly believe that this team is far more dependent on Mulder to be successful than it was when it traded for him in 2005. If this team is going to stay in the tick of things, and especially if it hopes to compete during the postseason, it needs Mulder to step up and to compete. That makes this game more exciting than any September pairing against the Pirates deserve to be. There's nothing too interesting in the batter vs. pitcher matchups, other than the fact that Marky has just absolutely owned Jason Bay in a pretty signifcant sample size of 20 AB.

I won't get a chance to watch this one, but here's helping to a nice outing by Mulder that gives us a nice excuse to send the Baron Von Kippington on a one way trip to the bullpen.

STL PIT
Eck, SS Izturis 3B
Natural, RF Bautista, CF
Albert, 1B Sanchez 2B
Jimmy E, CF LaRoche 1B
Dunc, LF Bay, LF
Molina, C Pearce, RF
Branyan, 3B Paulino, C
Swamp Gas, P Wilson, SS
Miles, 2B Armas, Jr., P

0 recs  |  Comment 320 comments

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I don't know what to think about Mulder
This whole season is upside down anyway.

Playball!

by Schnake on Sep 5, 2007 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This feels as exciting
as Ankiel's first game after his call-up.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Will they get it in?
I see a lot of rain on the radar.  'Course, if they don't, that just adds to the Cardinals' schedule woes, so I'm sure they'll wait as long as possible.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 5, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they need to get it in
but that radar makes it look like it's going to be raining until I take my lunch  break tomorrow.

by jeff abs on Sep 5, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dunno...
... the KMOV stadium cam doesn't look like it's too bad, but it's certainly not perfect either.

http://www.kmov.com/stadiumcam/

by kindred on Sep 5, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ugh...
... nevermind. just got really ugly. looks bad on FSN pre-game show too.

by kindred on Sep 5, 2007 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

KSDK
KSDK lost their network feed for awhile to the storm.  Also just now in my car listening to Bernie he said that there is a horizontal like rain hitting outside TGI Fridays near the stadium.

by StLHugo on Sep 5, 2007 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was also a commentary on how
he succeeded in 2005 with shaky peripherals, uniting the two things nicely.  I'm having trouble googling the original Get Up Baby post, however.  It must be from longer ago than I remember.

by Valatan on Sep 5, 2007 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for the reply
and effort to try and dig that up.

by Schnake on Sep 5, 2007 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No problem
it's the least I could have done after dumping today's dummy text on everyone.

by Valatan on Sep 5, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think
this is the one; my archives are a mess, so it was easier to just google through the old GreyMatter archives.

Note the ridiculous comment spamming that eventually got my database temporarily shut down by my host, and also the John Gall fandom.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 5, 2007 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why Branyan again?
Why is he starting over Ryan again at 3B?  Everything I read when the trade went down was that Ryan was still the starter and with Branyan being a utitility guy (ala Abe Nunez a couple seasons back).  
I know TLR loves veterans, but how can you knock Ryan out when he has done everything and more asked of him this year...
"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Sep 5, 2007 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

last night
home run = another start

by Schnake on Sep 5, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not sure what you read, but
and i'm not saying that in a snarky way, i seriously don't know - i didn't see anything that said that, but i could have missed it.

from what i've seen, ryan is much better defensively at ss or 2b than he is at 3b. and offensively, both branyan and ryan are better than either eck or miles. i'd rather have branyan in as the full time 3b with ryan starting 5-6 days a week split between the two mi spots.

The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 5, 2007 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm actually quite relieved
at seeing "miles" instead of "cairo" in the lineup...  
"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 5, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is it
that it's even something we have to look for?

It's true the downer that Ryan wasn't in the lineup was nothing compaired to not seeing Cairo.

Ryan was reported as having a hurt heel so that might explain why he's not there...as for why we even have to think about Cairo.

Hell I'd say ask Tony but I'm afraid he might tell you.

by Harknights on Sep 5, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like it...
lineup looks too punchless to me when the infield consists of Eckstein, Miles, and Ryan (or Cairo)...  Branyan adds a little bit more pop.  I'd have him in there unless a LHP is going.

by AndyB83 on Sep 5, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Punchless?
For the record:

Ryan 2007:
 AB   AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
121  .331 .386 .479 .865

Branyan 2007:
 AB   AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
137  .204 .317 .474 .791

Ryan is actually slugging HIGHER than Branyan this year in about the same # of ABs.  And Ryan's OPS is 74 pts higher.  Ryan's got a MUCH higher AVG, MUCH higher OBP, and better speed.

Branyan may be better defensively at 3B, but Ryan is the better hitter so far this year...by a lot.

I agree with those who say Branyan is fine slotted at 3B, but Ryan needs to be in the damn lineup...either at SS or 2B.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Sep 5, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small sample size?
Branyan's been having this season for what, ten years? Brendan Ryan had a .670 OPS in 300 AAA at-bats this year; he might be for real, but I have to imagine he'll be giving a fair amount of that OPS back eventually.  

by DanUpBaby on Sep 5, 2007 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would not argue...
that Brendan Ryan should not be in the lineup.  I like him in there but at the expense of Eckstein, Miles, or Cairo... not Branyan.

.004 points is insignificant... especially with a small sample size.  Branyan might hit the ball out of the park in any given at-bat and that's an attractive feature when you've already got singles hitters like Miles and Eckstein taking at-bats... not to mention Edmonds' diminished power.

by AndyB83 on Sep 5, 2007 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not convinced Ryan can really hit.
There's a good chance that he is another Bo Hart.
Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Sep 5, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not leave him in there
until he proves he can't?  He's been hitting well so far, why assume he won't?  You will not know until you get a lot of at bats....

by jillsinmo on Sep 5, 2007 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they were really convinced he has the
talent to start, they never would have signed Kennedy. Offensively,his minor league track record blows. Unless his skills have truly changed, they should only spot start him (as they've been doing) otherwise he's going to get overexposed.

Plus Branyan has been successful as a guy you can spot start and get some walks & power from. i don't see how mixing the two in could hurt us at this point.

Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Sep 5, 2007 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Kennedy is kind of a poor example.......
he hit a lot WORSE than his previous stats.  I don't know if he's going to be good enough in the long run, but they don't really know that either.  He hasn't had enough bats at to make a sound judgement.  I say give him the at bats.....so you can make a sound judgement.

by jillsinmo on Sep 5, 2007 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder is a key
He absolutely has to pitch well.  Considering all the debates w/ the pitching staff re:  Wells, Reyes, Wellemeyer, Thompson, Maroth -- there has to be some half-ass starting pitching from someone other than Wainwright and (gasp!) Looper.  What if we do win the division?  Can anyone imagine going w/ Looper in game 2 or twice in a five game series?  

Even if the team isn't able to pass the Cubs and Brewers, I'm excited about seeing the new and improved Mark Mulder.  We won't see it tonight, or likely, the rest of the regular season but I'm glad to see him back on the mound in a Cardinal uni.  Down the stretch, if he just gives us reason to hope he might be good next year, he will have accomplished something!

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 5:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

seriously
it's been so long that seeing his mug in a cards cap feels strange.
The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 5, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true
And probably how we'll feel about Carpenter (with even more joy and excitement) come this time next year.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 5, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we see
Carp on the mound this time next year, I'll be friggin' ecstatic.  Not that he shouldn't be, but w/ elbow injuries, you never know.  Carp, Mulder, Wainer on the mound in a pennant race -- well, let's just say it'll look a lot different than Wainwright, Looper, and Maroth.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My expectations are ratcheted DOWN -
since Mulder asked the radar gun be turned off in recent starts (wasn't digging the 84-87 readings?).

The man has to learn how to pitch all over again.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 5, 2007 5:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His comment
Was that he didn't want to focus on velocity but on pitching.  There have been some comments around that make it sound like he could get the velocity back, at least next year.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 5, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This might as well...
be Mulder's big league debut. What he did before against certain guys is irrelevant.

If he can go 5 with 4ks and <3 ERs I'll be thrilled.

Ease LaDunketty out gently, thank him profusely, and... Hire Antonetti!!!

by guayzimi on Sep 5, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This game
is like a friend saying

"Hey come and see my one man play. It's Pulp Fiction. My take is that it takes place in this guys mind."

So you're like "Well I liked Pulp Fiction."

and you're thinking the whole time your driving to the Theatre. "Man I don't even know what to hope for."

You're hoping that it's good but at the same time you just don't want anyone to be embarrased.

This game has every possible emotion. Hope, fear, excitement, caring and much more.

by Harknights on Sep 5, 2007 6:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha, weird analogy, but i guess it works
i would have gone with "men in black," personally.
The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 5, 2007 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damnit
MLB.tv blackouts strike again. I'd watch this on my laptop in my class tonight from 6:30-9...but I can't. Frustrating. Oh well, I'll be following on Gameday.

by mojowo11 on Sep 5, 2007 6:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My Lord,
He's handsome.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 6:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dreamy
You think Armas Jr. is dreamy too?
Cheering on the Cardinals, one pitch at a time.

by ColinMacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
that's what I assume Mulder says every time he looks in the mirror.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he and Wainwright have a
competition on who has the best looking 'Georgia Peach' wife.  Both are amazing southern beauties.

Atleast, I think.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Photos
We need evidence to debate this topic.
Postseason odds as of 9/4/2007: Central - 21.39937, Wild Card - .10163, Total - 21.50100

by ColinMacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

{tips Bud can}
... and a good evening to you, sir.

by kindred on Sep 5, 2007 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This Sh1t is for real
I mean, no more thinking about what ifs and just misses.  Of all the crap we've been through this year, we are a Mark Mulder victory and Ted Lilly implosion away from being the bonafide frontrunner in the NL Central (Beermakers be damned).

I mean, I don't think it really hit me until about 20 minutes ago but if everything breaks our way tonight, you could wake up being the fan of a 1st place ballclub, something that hasn't happened in over 157+ days.

I'll drink to that!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 6:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like the heavy stuff...
is moving past - we might just get this game in.  Damnit I wish the trading deadline hadn't passed and I didn't just have to drop the Lilly off of my fantasy team.

What do people think?  Can I morally afford the points I could get from his start tonight?  I think I have about 10-15 minutes to bench him before my roster locks.

by LilEck on Sep 5, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

screw it...
I've already made the fantasy playoffs - Lilly's on the bench.  Go Cards and go Dodgers!

by LilEck on Sep 5, 2007 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah hope, ah hope, ah hope...
Mulder gives us a good outing tonight... six innings with a total of 3 runs or less would be wonderful!

Youneverknow, but I'm rooting for all I'm worth!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Sep 5, 2007 7:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

we WILL get the game in tonight
we should at least have a two hour window to play at least five innings. there will be a delay but i'm looking for the game to start about an hour late.

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 5, 2007 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
I feel as tho i've been waiting the entire season for this one game.  Honestly, I dont even care what Mulder does tonight.  Sure id like to still be in the pennant race, but thats gravy for me.

by brindled on Sep 5, 2007 7:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rooney just said something about starting
the game between 8:00 and 9:00 (pretty vague, I know...).

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 5, 2007 8:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe...
I'm rooting for the Astros.

In a matter of a few months, they've gone from most reviled team since the '85-'87 Mets to eliciting something close to sympathy.

Ease LaDunketty out gently, thank him profusely, and... Hire Antonetti!!!

by guayzimi on Sep 5, 2007 8:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hold it there
I may root for them, but I can never (ever!) be sympathetic toward them.  

Even when the Brew-Crew or Cubbies beat them, I can't help but smiling at the sadness felt by Berkman or Lidge or Oswalt....or Burke!

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Claibes just claimed
the tarp is off - 8CT start time...

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 8:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fielder hits a 3 run bomb...
Astros stink.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 8:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that went off of Hunter Pence's glove
He was there, he should have made the play.  Stupid 'stros
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert

by BigMOman on Sep 5, 2007 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just read a study...
on teams that gave up the most leads of 3 runs or more in history. The '07 Brewers are climbing that list.
Ease LaDunketty out gently, thank him profusely, and... Hire Antonetti!!!

by guayzimi on Sep 5, 2007 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And struts like a prick
after doing it.  I'd drill him in the arse next time up after that strut and dance he did.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do we...
...have an idea as to how long we're delayed yet?

by mynameistyler on Sep 5, 2007 8:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's almost game time
handing out the line up cards now.

come on Marky Mark. just go 5 or 6 innings of 2 run ball and the O should take care of the rest.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 8:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gameday says warmup...
so they'll probably start in the next 20 minutes
23 homers 71 rbis, yeah, albert's having an off year

by PujolsFan4Life5 on Sep 5, 2007 9:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

already got one out in the top of the 1st
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A groundball out at that!
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by birds 4 life on Sep 5, 2007 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

here they go
and game day shows the first three pitches above 90.
Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

great start
let's hit around.
Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 9:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looking good
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

low 90s fastball
and a great curve, looked good that first inning
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Sep 5, 2007 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

9 pitch first inning. . . SWEET!
Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 5, 2007 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
Mulder's throwing heat, relatively speaking. Even the pseudo-eephus hit 74, according to gameday.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 5, 2007 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wasnt sure you could speak relative anymore
glad to see you recovered
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Sep 5, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 ground ball outs
with a GB DP to end the inning. so far so good Marky Mark. the gun showed almost everything in the high 80's, and hit 90 a couple times.

keep your fingers crossed every one.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the marky mark
I love.  Remember when double plays only happened to other teams?
Curse you Endy!!!!!

by boisebird on Sep 5, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

gonna need to win tonight...
... Cubs already up 3-0; Brewers up 7-0.

by kindred on Sep 5, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MLBtv feed
asleep at the wheel
Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Sep 5, 2007 9:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Once again great pickups Walt
Mulder
Pinero
Branyon
Ryan
Ankiel

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

pointing out the obvious here
but that last hit, and the one in the first is why i dont like miles at 2nd. dude has almost no range. not trying to extend an argument here from a couple days ago, but man he should have had both of those balls.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind miles
as long as he is coming off the bench. I was sitting here asking myself how he DIDN'T get that first groundball. It isn't like he had to cover second on the steal, no one was on base.
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder needs
another best friend
the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon

by tori akai on Sep 5, 2007 9:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looking bad.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well crap
marky Mark didnt get that ball inside nearly far enough.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

of course
that double sucks

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mulder hasn't been awful...
but he hasn't been good. Most of these singles are bloop jobs and jack wilson owns us.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mulder
is having trouble keeping the ball down.  He won't last long unless he can pitch down.  Otherwise he is imminently hittable.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's his first major league start
in over a year. cut him some slack.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder admits
he can't locate his fastball.

What's he pitching in a game for then?

Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least he isn't a righthander
with 21 on his back. I am thinking Mulder is gonna be just fine.
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Sep 5, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the same guys who started "Retire 51"
should start Burn 21. no Cardinal should ever wear that # ever again.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pity the person who does
after these last 2
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Sep 5, 2007 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jack Wilson
I don't like the guy.  He eats us up.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here we go
UGH!  Hope we can start hitting against Tony Jr.  

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 5, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, at least the bleeding stopped
and that WAS mostly weak singles.  But still, the only batter that Mulder really seemed to have control over was Armas.

by Valatan on Sep 5, 2007 9:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Velocity
dropped 3 mph according to gameday.

Looks like the surgery worked but Mulder is not quite conditioned enough.

by enoscountry on Sep 5, 2007 9:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stretch vs Windup
could have done it.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it seems to be location
which would just be b/c he hasn't been on the mound that much.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still encouraged
he looks like he's just in the need of some games under his belt and he really hasn't thrown many other pitches than fastballs and cut fastballs

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What the heck is Duncan doing out there?
He should have caught Laroche's routine flyball and Jack Wilson has done nothing but DEAD PULL the ball against the Cardinals the last 9 games.

Ugh.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

being a below average baseball player...
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan
is a huge liability in the field.  I worry every time I see him out there that some ball is going to bounce off of his head into the stands ala Canseco.  He has a great future as a DH.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's at least
the 3rd time recently I knew that the ball would be caught and Duncan's nowhere near it.  It's b/c he plays back on the warning track.  I guess he has to -- I guess we'd rather give up singles than doubles, but those fly ball hits are really frustrating b/c they really should be caught.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ludwick or Schumaker
would have caught them.  I am not sure the offensive payoff (especially lately) is worth the defensive cost.  Of course, another 3 run double from the guy would help compensate.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers up 10-0 bottom of 4th`
Good Grief!!!!
Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 5, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if we cant hit tony armas jr AGAIN
we have much bigger concerns than Mulder.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

super unlucky, Yadi
good play, Armas.

I'm beginning to say that name with the same tone that Jerry Seinfeld uses for 'Newman'

by Valatan on Sep 5, 2007 9:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha
I'm watching Seinfeld* while reading this!

*The one where Newman steals a sample of Jerry's hair, thus getting Jerry busted by his barber.  In fact, he was saying "Newman," as I read this.

by spants on Sep 6, 2007 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Armas
is exactly the kind of rag arm that can shut us down.  Sometimes we seem to do better against the stars (Oswalt excepted) than we do against the scrubbeanies.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OK Marky Mark
we all know you can swing a good stick. so why not get 2 of those runs back righ here dude?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

man
you weren't kidding - he ripped that ball foul

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice rip on that single too
come on Mini Me
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In play, no outs
Looks like Mulder has been studying at the Ankiel school of hitting.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 5, 2007 9:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Miles since the Juan accident...
it'll be interesting to chart what Miles does after that foul ball to Juan. That may ruin his career as well.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have to believe
we'd have a better chance with Brendan Ryan at 2B
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll do you one better
put Ryan at SS and have ECK as 2nd. ECK has way more range than Miles, and Ryan is the natural and far superior SS between the three of them.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Why isn't there talk about moving Eck to 2B?  Wasn't that his natural position?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think it was but i'm not sure
he deffinatly has the arm of a 2nd baseman that for sure.

make the switch Tony. make the switch.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need Matty Mo!
Then we can pitch

Mark Mudler
Mike Maroth
and
Matt Morris!
maybe Mike Mussina?  Could we turn Mike MacDougal into a starter?

Our rotation would be MMMMMMMMMM good!

by redbird2006in on Sep 5, 2007 9:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or..........
 Marcus McBeth CIN P
 Macay McBride DET P
 Mark McLemore HOU P
 Michael Megrew LAD P
 Matt Miller CLE P
 Mike Myers CWS P
 Michael McNutt FLA P (there is a joke there I am sure)

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too
much spare time haha.

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or
somebody started on the beers at the regular start time. ;o)

by cardsgirlinAR on Sep 5, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I
have no comment on that ;-)

Well done sir!

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking good.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not a bad inning there
the velocity is troublesome but either the Pirates are really bad at hitting mistakes or he's doing a good job.

Now Pujols needs to get off the stick and hit one over the wall.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 9:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if it wasn't for a few bloop ass hits...
mulder would be having a good outing.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice.
I'm comfortable with Mulder pitching against the Cubs.  I like what I've seen out of him.  He looks rusty but he'll come around.

by champion on Sep 5, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mulder is doing fine
It's his first start in a year.  Decent outfield play would help.  Even the great Edmonds let a catchable ball fall in front of him because he was playing deeper than usual.  Duncan?  Well we know what we have there defensively.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't
See my signature :)
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards
can't get runs on Matt Albers, But the Brewers sure can.  Three innings, 6 hits, 7 runs!

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 5, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ank! My man crush continues!
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Will Clark!!!
er... RICK ANKIEL!!!!
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ankiel is great
but should we start to worry about Albert?  He is really really overdue.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This poses the question:
Do I have a bigger man crush on Adam Wainwright or Rick Ankiel?

And that question poses this question:

What does it say about me if I have two man crushes?

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At least
you have good taste. An Aaron Miles/Andy Cavasos man-crush and I'd be worried.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love
me some Slick Rick!

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 5, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what a terrible time for a bathroom break
i guess i missed another Rick Ankiel home run? details please.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ripped an 0-2 pitch
Armas got the ball in on him and Ankiel turned on it.  It was a line drive about 12 rows up in Right.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

saweeeet
thanks.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder showed a good curve in the third
too bad he didn't get any of the fastballs south of the zone until he took care of Armis.

He looks smooth and the velocity may well be there.

If a few more bats than Hobbs can pick it up, we're in this thing.

Meanwhile the stros and the dodgers are just packing it in, no help there.

Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 9:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me...
or does the better Rick looks, the worse Dunc looks?
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the APu magic
that's what Ankiel has
From Curaçao, the friendly island in the Caribbean

by Johnny64 on Sep 5, 2007 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last night
I said that I thought that his emergence may make Duncan expendable this offseason b/c basically, I've had the same thought -- especially when I watch another fly ball fall for a single into medium left field.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I DO BELIEVE
that it might be time to move Rick into the cleanup spot w/eck leading off & ryan hitting in the 2 hole. That way APU might see a few more pitches. TLR has to @ least give it a thought, but im sure he wouldnt even consider it.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rick Ankiel is the anti-Cardinal
instead of sucking against crappy starting pitchers, he..ya know, mashes 'em.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Mulder gets through the 4th
it has been a successful start.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Mulder
is better than Wells or Reyes at this point.  A few seeing eye singles and some misplayed basehits/double in left and we're still in this before Ricky

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm losing faith in Duncans ability
to be a good major league baseball player.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 5, 2007 9:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure
lboros or one of the sabrmetrician brainiacs can calculate how many runs Duncan costs us on defense versus how many he creates on offense.  I think he costs us a lot out there but I could be wrong.  Empirical evidence would be welcome.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

interestingly
Baseball Prospectus has him for 19 batting runs above average and 1 fielding run above average -- meaning, of course, that he doesn't really cost us anything defensively, anecdotal evidence notwithstanding.  There are those who don't like the BP defensive metrics so take that for what you will.

The hardball times has him for 16.4 win shares batting and 1.5 win shares fielding.  So there's little evidence I can find to suggest that he actually hurts the team defensively.  Let's face it, it was just a single he allowed to fall earlier.

Even if those metrics are poor, I'm sure he adds more offensively than he hurts defensively, probably a lot more.  Still, if Ankiel and Duncan add the same offensively, Ankiel will be better overall b/c of his defense.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking bad.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 5, 2007 9:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ronnie Paulino
the new Michael Barrett.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 9:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I still think
Mulder just needs some more innings.

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

F%&K
that sure sucked all the excitement out of the place. that ball was a foot outside too.

Tony get Welley warming up now. no use to let Marky Mark take a drilling on his first start back.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well
every time we see to get back in it....

by tnek5 on Sep 5, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, crap
At least we have Mike Maroth going tomorrow...
"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 5, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Quick
If the entire Cardinal Nation did a Rain Dance right now...
Release Kip Wells!

by Big Mike on Sep 5, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Duncan!
that was really badly played again!

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought he had improved early in the year
but when you see genuine big league outfielders like Ludwick you suddenly realize that going from ridiculous to very bad doesn't cut it.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not good
How can we expect to score 5 runs on a guy with a 6.75 ERA?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mulder is just not able to get it down
too bad, but he can't just stay out there setting them up.
Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yes almost every pitch is up
he's gotten a few down, but he just can't get the ball low in the zone. Mulder can't survive up in the zone.

wheather he needs more innings or something else, i think this was a crap shoot to begin with. they had to see what they had. and now they know. Marky Mark needs more work.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet ballplaying, gentlemen!!!!
Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 5, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Obviously we are all a little disappointed
by Muldar's performance.

Watching on gameday and listening to the radio broadcast it sounds as if Muldar has not been able to throw a pitch in the strike zone past the batters.  Sometimes he gets an out on a pitch belt high and over the plate, but all too often those pitches get hammered.  I haven't seen many pitches that are either on the corners or aparently have such wicked motion that they are unhittable over the middle of the plate.  Comments from those watching on TV?

Nice play by Yaddie to save a run.

by thomaslj on Sep 5, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He is having a hard time keeping the ball down
and he doesn't appear to have any confidence in his breaking balls.  After not pitching at this level for a year, it isn't surprising that he has struggled with his mechanics. Even when he was healthy, he got killed when he couldn't keep the ball down.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HOW WAS THAT A STRIKE?
for the love of crap it almost hit YADDA's arm!
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

??Question
if we were an AL team and had a DH spot, do you think Wainy would be our starting DH?
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Sep 5, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh God no
It'd have to be Duncan, right?  Maybe Wainwright in LF, heh.

by yorktro on Sep 5, 2007 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm beginning to plot games
by Ankiel at bats...miles walks, Eck gets a hit and Ricky homers or doubles and we're back in this

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That would be the only scenario
where Albert wouldn't hit into an inning ending double play.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

son of a B%$@H
adam freakin laroach

when did the Cards lose the ability to beat the pirates? didnt they use to be our bitch?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At this point
in the season the Cards just cannot afford to have Duncan in LF. This is the 2nd start by a pitcher in the last 2 weeks that he has been responsible for most of the opponents offense. I dont know about TLR, but logically thinking, with this being Mulders 1st start in over a year, coming off of surgury, to give him a little more NEEDED confidence, why on the face of this frickin planet would you NOT try to put the BEST defense behind him. This argument includes not having Ryan in the lineup either. I like baby Dunc, but now he needs to be relegated to PHing OR to give APU some much needed rest, he could spell him @ 1st for a couple of games. It KILLS me how TLR can give Chris every chance in the world & other more talented players get in his doghouse & theyre screwed.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ehhh
you know, I kinda agree with you, but I just hope everyone remembers how many times people screamed and hollered earlier in the season when dunc didn't start every game, defense be damned.  Dunc is getting his shot now.  Maybe TLR figured we needed the extra offense, anticipating that Mulder wasnt going to shut anyone down totally.  how quickly we forget about base clearing doubles....(and this not necisarily directed at you buzz)

by mcurryatl on Sep 5, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better options now than then?
Could the hooting and hollering for LilDunc to play everyday be due to the other options of Wilson, JuanE, Gooch, and Skip at the time? Now we have our "youngsters" of Ludwick and Ankiel that we'd rather see play.
Postseason odds as of 9/4/2007: Central - 21.39937, Wild Card - .10163, Total - 21.50100

by ColinMacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ive supported
Chris all season until 2 weeks ago when he muffed up that fly ball for ARey. IMHO when youre in a pennent race & EVERY run counts when youre running out of season, they just cant afford his suspect defense down the stretch.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not playing much is what hurt Dunc....
Playing him even less isn't going to help.  For much of August and Sept, Duncan has been platooning or worse with Ludwick.  When he has appeared in a game, it was often as a pinch hitter.

A guy still learning to be an OFer does not benefit by that sort of treatment.

by DiscoJer on Sep 5, 2007 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Duncan isn't the reason we are losing this game.  Not saying anyone said it was however.  It's Mulder's iffy start (but what can say about it, it's start #1) and the offense making 6 + era pitchers like Armas look 100 times better than they are that frustrates me.

And just now Edmonds does nothing to help us.  Man it's sad how bad he has gotten in the last 2 years at the plate.  

Tonight is pretty frustrating.

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even when he costs you runs?
If his D had gotten better thru the year but it hasnt, theres a reason hes been platooning. Granted you learn on the job, but is it worth training a guy to be CEO when hes clearly a 9 to fiver. I DO love his lumber, though.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Little slow there
i was replying to disco

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I gotcha....
are you referring to giving up runs this evening?  I'm not convinced his play has.  Granted maybe the bloop LaRoche single could have been caught we will never know.  

And trust me, when a fly ball goes to left I immediatly hear the Benny Hill theme song in my head when Duncan is out there.  So I'm more with you on this topic than 100% disagreeing with you. :-)

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HA, Nice Benny Reference!
I do know that it probably wouldnt have made a dfference tonight but, like you my heart skips a beat every time a ball goes to LF. Maybe the pitchers could shave Duncs head & before every start sit him down & slap it repeatidly for good luck!

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes!
Throw in some fast walking and girls, with the random goofy cop and we're set!

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank You
PU, for making me forget about why i was aggravated in the 1st place. This thread made my whole night...its just one loss.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Likewise
my friend.  I am as frustrated as you are if not more.  But we are still going to be 2 games out.  It just baffles me on how we can make less than mediocre pitchers look so good.

We are counting on Maroth to SPLIT a home series with the damn Pirates.  Unacceptable really.  The Bucs have a new pitcher going tomorrow. I am fairly sure our boys will make him look outstanding and like a potential 20 game winner.

With that said...

I am positive we will win the Central.  

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said
and I second every one of those sentiments. You do have to hand it to Armas, though, hes been nearly unhittable all season, his ERA coming in was ONLY around 7.00 coming into tonight...mood lightened.

by buzzburton33 on Sep 5, 2007 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was said a few post before
but Ankiel's emergence has shown how limited Duncan is.  He is one dimensional - hits for power and that's it.  Ankiel has all the tools - the bat, the arm, speed and a good glove.  It puts Duncan's limitations in perspective.

And don't forget Ludwick. A powerhitter with above average defensive skills.  Another strike against Chris.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He only hits for power?
he has his problems defensively but let's not forget --

he's 2nd on the team in WPA, Win shares, VORP, and 3rd in WARP1 (among hitters).  His OPS is almost 70 pts. higher than Ludwick's.  There's something to be said for people who hit for a lot of power, defensive shortcomings notwithstanding.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was Oquendo thinking there?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Should have sent him
But we'd be just as irritated had he made the third out at home there.

by liam on Sep 5, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like a vintage wine
we should put him on the shelf, in the basement.

He's 11 for his last 50.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this would be funny
if it wasn't so sad.

i miss vintage jimmy ballgame.

by acham8206 on Sep 6, 2007 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm afraid Jimmy is done
He isn't going to get any better.  He great but age even caught up with Gibson, Lou and Ozzie.  We are seeing a sad end to a great career.  And we have a whole season left.  By the end of next year, Jimmy may take So Taguchi's place as a late inning defensive replacement.  Most of you are too young to remember but his decline reminds me of two other great defensive centerfielders:  Jim Landis and Jimmy Piersall.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd sure like to see
ankiel crack a little smile out there.  he brings smiles to everyone else, but doesn't afford one for himself.
That's a winner!

by saveferris on Sep 5, 2007 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He'll smile after his teamates pick it up
start matching his contributions.  until then it maintains the spell.
Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to smile
with a jaw full of tobacco or gum, seemingly.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jimmy just is awful this year
It's about time to admit it....he's not going to get hot...ever...

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

18th on the team in VORP -- offensively
his VORP is 0.1 runs above Ryan Franklin -- on offense.  Again, that doesn't count Franklin's contributions on the mound, only his 1 for 2 w/ 1 RBI performance at the plate.  Edmonds is less than 1 run better than a replacement player -- for the entire year.  Skip Schumaker is at 6.4.

According to fangraphs, he is 10.25 runs BELOW average for the year and has a -0.96 WPA.  In other words, he's hurt us more than helped us this year.  He is clearly one of the biggest disappointments of the season.  He probably shouldn't be starting and, almost certainly, shouldn't be hitting 4th.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent analysis!
Now tell us how badly Duncan hurts us on defense.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
You are a gentleman.  In this case, the stats are hard to believe (especially after seeing him klutz around tonight) but I appreciate the analysis.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I'm not sure I'm on board either, but that's what they say.

Still, good offense will beat bad defense (at least in LF) every time.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i guarantee you if DUNK wasn't in a slump
no one would care how bad his D is.

not sure what's going on with the dude. but he's deffinalty struggling on both sides of the ball.

we really need DUNK to produce.

desperately.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a case of the new toy outshining the old...
Duncan basically won the game for the Cardinals last night, yet no one commented on it at all.

Right now, all anyone can talk about is Ankiel, Ankiel, Ankiel. Whenever Duncan does something good, it's ignored. When he does something bad, they pile on him.

by DiscoJer on Sep 5, 2007 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

outside of
Eck and miles, Jimmy is t h e WORST person to put in the 4th spot

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Pirates
if they had better pitching would be a contender in this division, no doubt, they are just getting hits/runs from all over the park tonight and have this whole series.

Not looking forward to see how many hits/runs they can get off Maroth.

by KYCards on Sep 5, 2007 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can people PLEEEAASE stop!
referring to VORP---IT IS THE STUPIDEST REFERENCE ON THE PLANET EARTH FOR BASEBALL PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like VORP
and I agree that MaskedMan's post was infantile and poorly informed...

but I would like to imagine that the regular contributors would patiently educate someone like MaskedMan (and he sorely needs it) rather than just flipping him off.

by thomaslj on Sep 5, 2007 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's doesn't want to be educated
he wants to stomp his feet, have a temper tantrum and get attention -- it worked.

by azruavatar on Sep 6, 2007 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which reference
is better? Or what would you prefer be used to show the value of a player's worth?
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks...
for screwing up the page!  ;-)

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

After reading such a rational
critique, how can I not stop using it?  Maybe we can all go back to stuff like RBI for hitters and wins for pitchers!

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

VORP is a valid and learned concept
Screaming and blasting is not.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Morgan,
masked man.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 6, 2007 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disappointing
We needed to take 3 out of 4 or sweep the f'in Pirates.  Instead we're looking a 1-for-4 series straight in the face (barring an incredible comeback).
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The good thing is
The Cubs face the Pirates several more times, lets hope they hammer the Cubs pitching like they have ours. I know our pitching has been not real great in game 1 and this game, but the Pirates are proving to me to be a heck of an offensive club.  They are going to be spoilers in this September stretch in the Central, hoepfully for the Cubs.

by KYCards on Sep 5, 2007 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

vALUE oVER rEPLACEMENT lEVEL
is relevant to what???

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

don't disregard VORP
just because you don't have the mental capacity to fathom it.

by _pistol_ on Sep 5, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are clearly at the wrong site
If you haven't noticed, these modern statistics and "references" are all over the site.
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's relevant
to comparing player's production to replacement level players, thus the term.  In doing so, you can also compare players to one another.  Someone with a VORP of 30 has been 10 runs better than someone with a VORP of 20.  It's really not that difficult a concept to understand once you do a little reading about it.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How does McRae manage
to have our hitters completely unprepared to hit against terrible pitchers?

Hell, I think even Odalis Perez shut us down once.

McRae should be the pitching coach, cause he seems to have a knack of creating a gameplan to turn terrible pitchers into Cy Young.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 10:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wellenmeyer is looking good in his audition
to be the replacment for
Pick 1
Wells/Maroth/Mulder
The 2007 St. Louis Multiple Personality Disorders...Alternately;(Punchless) Judies; (Pitchless) Lounge singers; & sometimes...World Champions

by Podlol on Sep 5, 2007 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
I think it's safe to say he's a shoo-in for "Player Most Likely to Have His Last Name Misspelled by Viva El Birdos Users."

That wasn't meant to be a shot at you or your spelling ability, just a joke.  I swear, I read incorrect spellings more often than correct spellings on this blog!

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

shots fired at GDM!
HA!

dead on Mr. Redbird.

i cant spell to save my life.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry you can't understand
anything that has value other than a strat-o-matic value for your fantasy team that is VORP

It is the single STUPIDIST stat you can value, which is as hollow as the BA of Molina and Miles.

I ain't on that bandwagon, sorry for you.

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the tone of your post
suggests that a more confrontational, less collegial site may be just what the dr. ordered. May I suggest the post dispatch forums?

by yorktro on Sep 5, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

please explain
i'm ready for a dose of your wisdom

by _pistol_ on Sep 5, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

one other pet peeve
...Assailing something as the "stupidist (sic)" without knowing how to spell it is really choice.

by yorktro on Sep 5, 2007 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps if you're going
to criticize stats as being the "stupidist", you might want to explain your criticism in something that approaches a coherent thought.

If you have a well-reasoned critique of VORP as to why it's not a great measure of a player's offensive ability, that might make for a decent argument.  But simply calling it the "stupidist" w/o explaining why it's the "stupidist" doesn't add a lot to your critique.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least
Welle looked good. Two Ks and a groundout.

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 5, 2007 10:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

true about Wellemeyer
He is my choice for the 5th or 6th starter

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

guys, you have YOUR opinions
I have mine.  I have no problem with how you want to delude yourself with what you are seeing, IMO

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How about we start
with you using the reply to this link.

by azruavatar on Sep 5, 2007 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was prepared to be patient
But MaskedMan has now proven that he is more interested in flame-wars than informed discussion

by thomaslj on Sep 5, 2007 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
i have a sneaking suspicion he's a cubs fan

by _pistol_ on Sep 5, 2007 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we should
have a new definition for VORP:

Value Over Replacement Poster

Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 11:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's time to let the flame wars die!
He could've expressed it better, but he doesn't have to be on board w/ VORP.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...WORD
Value Over Repudiated Punk

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

who F'ed up the page?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 guesses
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another reason to run FireFox over IE
When I read the "who F'ed up the page?" comment last night at home on my PC, I was rather puzzled since the frame looked perfectly normal to me.

I chuckled, shrugged, and then moved on.

This afternoon at work, while rereading yesterday's gameday post for the new comments, I noticed the width of the frame was completely FUBAR thanks to the long string of "!!!!11!1oneonesix" from our newest VORP fan.

I use Mozilla FireFox at home.  At work we have to use Internet Explorer.

So there you have it, kids.  As if there weren't enough already, here's yet another good reason to use the FireFox browser.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Sep 6, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why are my comments flames?
I'm joking and having fun...is that not the purpose?

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 11:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Learn from me Grasshopper
As one who embarassed himself a few days ago with an intemperate and unwise post about wishing ill for Kip Wells, you must realize that this is mostly a very civil site. This is where the baseball intellectuals dwell and the other forum is for the national pasttime's trailer trash.

Honestly, this is a very forgiving forum with lots of thoughtful posters.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards vs Pirates, Last 8 Seasons
Breaking up the monotony of juvenile posts (I'm willing to hear rational arguments for any statistic and metric), someone earlier asked about the Cards owning the Pirates at some point. Here's the win-loss records for our Redbirds versus the Buccos (cribbed from retrosheet.org) Year W-L (H, A) 2007 8-5 (4-3,4-2) through Tuesday night 2006 9-6 (5-1,4-5) 2005 12-4 (7-3,5-1) 2004 12-5 (5-2,7-3) 2003 10-7 (5-5,5-2) 2002 11-6 (4-3,7-3) 2001 14-3 (8-2,6-1) 2000 8-4 (3-3,5-1) 1999 5-7 (2-4,3-3) 1999 was the last time we finished behind them in the standings. 2007 is jaded by recency (our road trip through Pittsburgh and Washington and this home series). Except for last season, we were rocking in PNC Park.
Postseason odds as of 9/4/2007: Central - 21.39937, Wild Card - .10163, Total - 21.50100

by ColinMacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 11:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Take 2 (reformatted)
What we have here is a failure to preview...

Someone earlier asked about the Cards owning the Pirates at some point. Here's the win-loss records for our Redbirds versus the Buccos (cribbed from retrosheet.org)


Year    W-L (H, A)
2007    8-5 (4-3,4-2) through Tuesday night
2006    9-6 (5-1,4-5)
2005    12-4 (7-3,5-1)
2004    12-5 (5-2,7-3)
2003    10-7 (5-5,5-2)
2002    11-6 (4-3,7-3)
2001    14-3 (8-2,6-1)
2000    8-4 (3-3,5-1)
1999    5-7 (2-4,3-3)

1999 was the last time we finished behind them in the standings. 2007 is jaded by recency (our road trip through Pittsburgh and Washington and this home series). Except for last season, we were rocking in PNC Park.

Postseason odds as of 9/4/2007: Central - 21.39937, Wild Card - .10163, Total - 21.50100

by ColinMacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks dude
i knew for a few years we owned them.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would any opposing manager
start a pitcher with an ERA less than 6.00 against us.  I would like to see an analysis of how we fare against such opposition as compared to say, average or above average pitchers.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 5, 2007 11:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's nice to see a Shortstop that doesn't
let a ball to his left go into CF for a slowly hit single.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

let it go!
everybody else should, too.  This isn't the p-d boards.

Next time I would just suggest explaining why you don't like VORP or whatever rather than just blasting BUT

it's ridiculous to suggest that you're a Cubs fan or anything else just b/c you don't like it.

It's time for everyone to LET IT GO!

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you want to reply to a comment....
you can use the "reply to this" function/button.  Then your comment will sort of attach to the one you are responding to.

Give it a try tomorrow.

It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 5, 2007 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ryan
undoubtedly has more range, arm than Eck.

by _pistol_ on Sep 5, 2007 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If we lose this game
which is looking likely, how short of a leash is Maroth going to be on tomorrow night?

We really can't afford to lose 3-4 from the Pirates.

I think Tony should strongly consider having Wellemeyer start tomorrow or at least be ready to pitch if Maroth gives up 3 runs early in the game.

by KYCards on Sep 5, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

considering
Wellemeyer pitched tonight, not really an option.  I'd be okay with Thompson, though.

by _pistol_ on Sep 5, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wellemeyer
only pitched one inning and I don't think he threw too many pitches. I think he would be available tomorrow for at least a few innings.  But I bet we will see Thompson at some point.  

by KYCards on Sep 5, 2007 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wellemeyer for 3 innings
Thompson for 4, and bullpen for 2.

I'm all for a Wellemeyer/Thompson tag-team from here on out.

Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the way we are hitting
the leash would have to be used at only one run, or we're done.

through 8 and we haven't even picked up the three runs we dropped in the second.  at this rate maroth could throw a 2 hitter, and we could lose.

meanwhile the brewers trashed a pitcher that blanked us last week, and the cubs are crushing the dodgers.  close, but no cigar.

Play Roy Hobbs Everyday!

by Birds on the Bat on Sep 5, 2007 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brutal.....!
Sorry guys not sure if this link will show up.  I'm not all that computer savvy, but you have to listen to this heckler in Philly to the backup catcher from the Rockies awhile ago.

Some good lines, even though the guy is pretty annoying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvTI6rcov2g

by Pujols for MVP on Sep 5, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice
You can never go wrong with a well-placed "You Suck"

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2662083

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 5, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

VORP is a statistic
that is used in evaluating players based on how you will use them in a draft.  My spelling sucks and is anathema to my horrible crediblity problms with my views on baseball...lol

by MaskedMan on Sep 5, 2007 11:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i know you're trolling
but that is quite possibly the worst definition of VORP I've ever heard.  Unless by draft you mean "expansion draft", in which case it would be a very good idea indeed to use VORP (if you actually want your expansion team to win...)
"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 5, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?
so are home runs.  I don't know of many fantasy leagues that use VORP as a stat, though they probably should.  I really suggest you read up on it some.  Read "Baseball Between the Numbers".  It's a great book.  You may not agree with it but it really provides valuable insight.

by chuckb on Sep 5, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad night
The Cubs are now whipping the Dodgers 8-2 in the bottom of the 8th and still batting.

Looks like we will be back to 2 games out here soon.

by KYCards on Sep 5, 2007 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Flores
wasn't bad either.  At least TLR has a chance to get some guys a little work on the mound tonight.  Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just trying to find any silver lining I can here.  

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 5, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought the game was over
there in the bottom of the 8th.  I was about to flip the TV off.

I gotta watch another half inning of this crap?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 5, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

full inning
if you stick around.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we don't make the playoffs
that 1-4 (possibly 1-5 after Mikey Maroth) record vs. the Pirates in a month span is going to spur many 'what if' moments across cardinal nation....

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

crap - 2-4 or 2-5
whatever - it sucks is what I'm trying to say

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 5, 2007 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, as dreadful as the starting pitching has
been, we have not had a productive offense consistently.  I say go for A-Rod in the off season-we need dependable run production and a short stop.  Problem solved.  Of course, he's going to get the gross national product for 5 years or whatever, but wouldn't you love it if ARod, Cardinal, broke Barry Bonds homer record---you'd be buying that too.
I think they should at least pick up the phone and ask him what he wants.......  

by jillsinmo on Sep 5, 2007 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I forget to hit the reply to this button and
I don't even know who I was responding to anymore.  I think I'm up past my bedtime....sorry folks, I'm not even drinking.

by jillsinmo on Sep 5, 2007 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To paraphrase Fred from 'Dirt Cheap' Liquors
The more you drink, the better tonight's game looks.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 5, 2007 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the more she drinks the better you look
"size does matter! carry a big wad of cash with all the money you save!"

CHEAP! CHEAP! FUN! FUN!

"and remember, be safe out there."

ah its games like this that make me wish i still drank.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 6, 2007 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have a better chance of winning the lottery...
Really, that's what it's like. I know it can be fun to speculate on what you'd do with the money if you won the lottery. But realistically, you aren't going to win, nor will the Cardinals sign A-rod.

I do agree he would be perfect. He would solve most of their problems. But it's just never going to happen.

by DiscoJer on Sep 5, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok ok ok
rally squirrel thing-a-ma-jigger time

also i feel sorry for some father trying to teach his child how to fill out a scorecard with tonights line-up changes

. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Sep 5, 2007 11:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re:ok ok ok
or not
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Sep 5, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well that game sucked.
Marky Mark looked very rusty. but no one really expected him to have great control and sharp command of all his pitches did the?

gotta do what ever it takes to get the split tomorrow. Cards can not lose a series to the effing pirates. they just cant.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 5, 2007 11:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this time of year
i think i'd rather face the cubs, brewers, mets, arizona, or any other team in contention because i feel like we really play harder against them and have a better chance of winning. it could just be my memory, but in the past when we need to win against terrible teams we just cant.
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Sep 5, 2007 11:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs