Game 146 Open Thread: September 15, 2007

Credit given freely here.

You're right, Lb. The Drew trade was a brilliant move; it was also sort of a watershed or turning point for the team. The first few years of the decade, it seemed as if all the moves made were to bring in more bats, add veteran leadership, and add payroll. That deal really set in motion the new direction that worked so beautifully for the next couple seasons.

Now we have a young stud pitcher ready to anchor a great Cardinal team. I just hope the front office figures out a way to provide it to him this offseason.

If you don't ask me to dinner, I don't eat.

by the red baron on Sep 15, 2007 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're absolutely right, credit should be given

The refusal to go forward with the trade without Wainwright is going to be key to our future success.

by nycardfan on Sep 15, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is, what it is.

It was a nice effort, but the plain facts are, that the Cubs are a better team than we are right now. I can't tell you how much it pains me to say this, as I live in the Chicago area, and I am so not looking forward to going to work on Monday. But we have to face facts: Their starting pitching is vastly better. They put a better team offensively on the field. They have a good manager now. Our only advantage is the bullpen.

Unless the Cards can reenact 1964, our opportunity for 2007 is gone. I just hope they can hang in there and not get embarrassed the rest of the season.

Now, how do we get better next year?

by Anteus on Sep 15, 2007 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Salary differential and offseason spending

I'm going to try to stay away from all of the injuries to our team. I'll just look at the team payroll (w/differential) and what the teams spent in the offseason.

For now, both teams are close in the total payroll area; Cubs (8) and Cards (12)

Chicago Cubs 99,936,999
St. Louis 90,286,823

Thats a difference of 9,650,176. Before you say, "well the Cards didnt do anything in the offseason to get better.", I'll tend to agree. Though, who couldve forseen what this season would hold?

Offseason spending. I'm pretty sure this is where the disparities start. The Cubs spent an astronomical amount (to me, anyway) of money in the offseason, to play at or around .500 ball. I, for one, wouldnt be too excited about that, considering we spent markedly less and are still within striking distance of them. Though, I too am starting to lean toward the negative side of the, "it aint over yet" statement.

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On Ankiel

Not sure that if this has been said or not. Wouldn't it be more realistic to assume that his skid is more of a transgression to his career averages than because of the HGH story? I mean I loved the "Natural" story as much as anyone and the timing I guess can not be ignored, but we are talking about a guy that hit .267/.314/.568 in AAA. Now after this stretch he is at .284/.331/.587 at the MLB level. Too me it seems more like Rick is coming back to reality after a very hot start rather than imploding as he did in '00/'01.

by jgist on Sep 15, 2007 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're absolutely correct....

...he was playing way over his head. I will concede that the "story" might have burst the bubble, but that bubble was going to pop anyway.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

was just gonna say the same thing

he is not as good as his early numbers, nor is he as bad as his recent slump would indicate. i'm not naive enough to think the hgh thing hasn't proven to be a distraction, but he also is what he is...which is pretty much all or nothing hacker type. he could come around to be about his mean expectation type of line...or he'll just end up a tragic figure. again.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Sep 15, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he was due to regress, obviously

he wasn't / isn't a .350 hitter or an .800 slugger.

but there seems to be a clear relationship between the hgh disclosure and his subsequent slump. was he gonna regress anyway? yeah. but the hgh thing probably hastened / sharpened that regression.

sometimes a change in performance simply represents random variation, and sometimes it's caused by something else. i think this falls into the latter category.

by lboros on Sep 15, 2007 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

the timing between the two is too exact. The quetion in my miind is how will he recover, now that he has been thrown off stride at a key time in his development (and given his past experiences in the big leagues).

by nycardfan on Sep 15, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too.

The birds went from being a confident club on the rise led by a young slugger who was hitting lights-out, and after THE STORY broke, everything went down the toilet for the hitter and the team. A little too much of a coincidence, methinks.

"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 15, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate being this guy

28 ABs - 9 Ks = 19 BIP

2 Hits / 19 BIP = .105

That's his BABIP. I don't know the composition of the outs -- GB vs LD vs FB -- or anything else (and I personally agree that the HGH thing probably has messed with him) but this could be the most ordinary of luck induced slumps as well.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 15, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Duncan has been given enormous

latitude on this site during his various extended slumps. It seems that Ankiel should be supported, or at least given some slack, in a similar way.

He's new to the big leagues, he did not have as many at-bats in the minors as is normal, he's a lot like Duncan in that he strikes out quite a bit and needs to learn more plate discipline. In Ankiel's favor, he looks like he has been making adjustments better at the plate than Duncan has (or least he was until the story broke). And his potential in the outfield far surpasses anything Duncan is capable of (he has The Arm).

I'm sure the story knocked him and the team off their stride. But I also think he has a good chance of coming back. He looks relaxed in the field again and at least he's beginning to make contact again with his bat.

Remember that there were arguments not that long ago about Wainwright's fixed "ceiling" and that, supposedly according to his statistics, he could never be a front of rotation guy or that he could drop his ERA below 4.25. And of course there's the glaring disconnect between Reyes' minor league stats versus his major league performance (I guess that would be a fixed "floor").

Given that, I'm uncomfortable slotting players too early in their careers and setting an artificially low "ceiling" or "floor". Baseball involves so much physical and psychological maturation that it takes more time than their minor league experience affords to gauge someone's real capacities.

I don't think we have a good idea yet which direction Ankiel will go--he's given different glimpses of his talent, just like Duncan has and just as Wainwright did early on in his minor major league career.

by nycardfan on Sep 15, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think both are probably true

he was due to regress; the league would start to adjust to him and he's going to have to adjust to it as well. But the timing of his slump is eerily coincidental.

The good news is that the season's about over. This could be a lot worse had it occurred in May. He should be able to start fresh next spring -- w/o all the distractions from the HGH, w/o feeling like he has to carry the offense to the title, and just play ball. He won't be a superstar but I do believe he can be a solid contributor to the offense, once this distraction is past him.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IZZY

I was busy last night and was not near a computer to post anything. I was reading some peoples post's about Izzy walking Kendall.

That was an outstanding move. You have no shot a scoring a run against Big Z if he pitches the 9th inning. You walk Kendall so Pinella has to decide if he wants Big Z hitting with the bases loaded or a pinch hitter. Larussa/Dunc knew that if Z comes out Demp closes. Demp is very shaky especially with a 1 run lead. Ward just came up with a big and put the Cubs up enough that the lead held.

Anyone think Edmonds could have caught that ball had he been playing deeper? It seems like he was playing shallow. I have voiced my opinion a lot about Edmonds poor positioning. He is playing too shallow, as he just cant go back on balls anymore. That ball hung up forever and it barley made it to the warning track. That ball should have been caught.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2007 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was at the game

I only questioned the walk to JJ not to Kendall, I knew why that happened but I was pissed to see Ward as the pinch hitter given that Ward has killed us all year long. Great game and WONDERFUL bottom of the 9th, not enough but man the energy in the stadium was awesome. First time I have seen Pujols hit a homer in recent memory and I got the double treat of Edmonds and Ludwick too, man that was a great game too bad Izzy gave up that double.

by StLHugo on Sep 15, 2007 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Jimmy

knew it should've been caught, too.

We had good opportunities to go .500 over the last 8. Knowing that makes the losing streak that much more painful.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

more on Haren

I always liked Danny and hated to see him go but I chuckle at those who now criticize that trade. If you recall, the Cardinals were a near juggernaut at the time....seeking what seemed to be the final piece to a Championship puzzle, a top shelf number 2 starter to pair with Carp in the playoffs.

Mulder was clearly that guy given his stats over the previous five years. One would expect to pay dearly for him and we did.

The "He was hurt and on the way down" argument is mere hindsight. Yeah, his previous six months weren't great but all the docs gave him a passing grade. (and I cringe when bloggers critize MDs, especially our own)

Yeah, Danny's been better and we'd rather have him. But at the time, I would have made that trade with my eyes closed. To conclude anything else is simply 20/20 hindsight.

by Hinkster on Sep 15, 2007 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Except

some of us actually thought it was a bad idea at the time. I have witnesses.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 15, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not entirely hindsight

many, many people criticized that trade at the time it went down. i did not ---- i thought it was a reasonable risk to take, and i didn't anticipate haren being this good or mulder being this bad.

but there were plenty of voices (esp within the stathead community) who predicted, correctly, that the cardinals would regret the trade.

by lboros on Sep 15, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again.

I'd make the trade again. Mulder helped get the team over the hump and he helped get the team to the postseason last year. I'd do the trade over again and wouldn't think twice about it.

by champion on Sep 15, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way

In 2005, Haren and Mulder at the very least were equal pitchers. Haren, however, cost about $7 million less. We all know how 2006 turned out.

I didn't like the trade then, and I absolutely loathe it now.

by 26thMan on Sep 15, 2007 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Most likely, without Mulder, the Cardinals do not make the playoffs last year. I'll trade Dan Haren for a World Series victory five ways till Sunday.

by champion on Sep 15, 2007 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?!

Mulder was terrible last year! We almost missed the playoffs because TLR kept running him out there.

I hope you mean 2005...

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 15, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last Year.

Nope, last year before he was in injured. Haren didn't come into his breakout season until 2007 so pining over wanting him in the team in 2006 is a poor exercise, in my opinion. Mulder has a chip on his shoulder so I expect him to have a monster 2008 as long as his rehab comes along as scheduled.

by champion on Sep 15, 2007 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just because your claim is THAT silly:

Better marks are in italics.

Danny Haren

2005: 14-12, 217 IP, 3.73 ERA, 120 ERA+, 1.221 WHIP
2006: 14-13, 223 IP, 4.12 ERA, 108 ERA+, 1.206 WHIP
2007 (so far): 14-7, 202 IP, 3.11 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.209 WHIP

Mark Mulder

16-8, 205 IP, 3.64 ERA, 117 ERA+, 1.376 WHIP
6-7, 93.3 IP, 7.14 ERA, 62 ERA+, 1.704 WHIP

2007 (so far): 0-2, 8 IP, 12.38 ERA, 35 ERA+, 2.375 WHIP

Granted, 2007 Mulder is recovering from a surgery. I think his mechanics are whack and if he doesn't return to 2004/2005 form in the physical act of pitching, he's never going to be better than Haren again.

Still think Mulder helped us in 2006? More than Haren would've? Remember: W-L record isn't always indicative of the quality of pitching. I'm sure Haren lost some games when he probably shouldn't have, and Mulder probably won some games he shouldn't have. If you want, we can call 2005 a push, but in 2006, Haren is CLEARLY the better pitcher.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 15, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

Did you factor into account the games in 2006 when Mulder was pitching while he was injured? Those last few starts were out of line, to me, because something was seriously wrong with him. Then again, data doesn't lie...right?

by champion on Sep 16, 2007 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

None of that

made any sense. You didn't respond to anything I said. Technically, he was pitching injures in 2005, too. Look at the ERA+. Haren is now, and has been for three seasons, the better pitcher than Mark Mulder. I like Mulder; I hope he regains his As form because even in 2005, he was already flawed and not the dominant Mark Mulder we were expecting to see.

Basically, you're just saying that Mulder helped us more in his 93 innnings of 7 ERA ball than Haren would've helped us in his 200+ innings of 4 ERA ball. It's ludicrous and you've said absolutely nothing to back up your claims.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 16, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You

can't compare start-by-start with the pitchers. The circumstances were totally different. What I'm trying to impart to you is that a) Mulder wasn't a very good pitcher last year, injury or no, and that he'd already started going downhill in 2005, and b) a healthy Danny Haren definitely would've contributed to more wins than Mulder did. The Cards only won 83 games last year; Haren's 8 more wins would've put us at 91 wins on the season. Not too shabby.

Haren's peripherals are better than Mulder's. It's just that Haren isn't a groundball pitcher, so he didn't fit into the Cards' pitching philosophy.

Check out Hardball Times. Learn about the different ways of judging a pitcher's performance. Then we can have an enlightened discussion. Until then, you're just making statements with no weight.

Player Stat pages at Hardball Times
Haren
Mulder

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 16, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some reason my post didn't show up

But bullet points:

Cardinals trade a pitcher who could be good over 10 years for a polished guy they hoped for 2.
As you said, they needed that final piece. Their Pettite to their Clemens, their Schilling to their Pedro.
They also needed an insurance policy for Chris Carpenter should he get injured for another postseason.
The Godfather of Seoul, Hee Sop Choi is the reason, in my mind the Cardinals weren't NL Champs again in 2005. Scott Rolen doesn't make that ridiculous throw Hector Luna did in Game 3 of the NLCS.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Letter Writing/Media Relations Campaign

Has a letter writing/media relations campaign done purely by the fanbase ever persuaded ownership to sign a player? Why don't we use this site as a springboard to force ownership's hand to do everything in their power sign A-Rod?

Daily Kos and other grassroots/netroots type websites have done well in pushing their agenda on the powers that be. I'm sure we can muster enough publicity around the country to make a stand. I want ownership to sign the best hitter in baseball to hit behind the best hitter in the National League. We deserve only the best. No more league average filler types on the roster. Sign the best.

How do we make this happen? I'm totally serious. If we want A-Rod to come to St. Louis we need to be proactive NOW.

by champion on Sep 15, 2007 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Future

I wouldnt want us to mortgage our future just to "win now". It doesnt make sense to me. Were not the Yanks, Sox or any other high-falooting team w/bucketloads of cash. I agree, it would be nice to have A-Rod, but I dont see it happening (esp. if it hurts the future of talent). A hitter isnt the only thing we need right now anyway. I believe that the starting rotation is a bit of a shambles right now. Wouldnt it be smart to invest some of the $30 mil that A-Rod is going to want/year, into some good SP (i.e. AJ Burnett, Johan, some other upper tier FA SP)?

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Answer.

Wouldnt it be smart to invest some of the $30 mil that A-Rod is going to want/year, into some good SP (i.e. AJ Burnett, Johan, some other upper tier FA SP)?

No.

A-Rod fills so many holes on the team with one signing. Plus, the merchandise sales and the exposure he'd bring to the franchise and the city of St. Louis is worth it - in my opinion. Aim high. Settle for nothing but the best.

So, where should we begin the Sign A-Rod Movement? Bernie's Pressbox? Constant call-ins to every sports radio show in the area? Letter writing campaigns to DeWitt and each of the managing partners?

Let's move!

by champion on Sep 15, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Linuep from Yahoo!

Game 1
A. Miles 2b
S. Taguchi lf
A. Pujols 1b
R. Ludwick rf
J. Edmonds cf
Y. Molina c
M. Cairo 3b
B. Looper p
B. Ryan ss

No Ankiel against LHP. Not that it really matters. He couldn't hit a Jugs machine right now.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I highly reccommend reading

the link that FJM posted today (for a laugh). It references this post by a former major leaguer about prospect evaluation -- the comments are priceless.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 15, 2007 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this and the trade a-rod link

are two of the funniest sites on the internet.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

link

http://tradearod.com/

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess everyone is still in bed.

Looper gets out of trouble.

In New York, Pedro is getting pounded by the Phillies.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ok

how he got out of that, I don't know. 1 run against Pedro. Should have been worse.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you agree that Lilley's performance...

...this year is the biggest surprise in the NL Central?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Without a doubt

Lilly is the difference between the Cards and the Cubs right now. Even with all of our injuries, we sign Lilly, we are in 1st place.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that called igh strike is the biggest

surprise in the NL central..

by outraged on Sep 15, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If not him...

I'm floored at how well Marquis has pitched. I figured he'd get shelled at Wrigley.

Jason Bay's subpar season was a surprise to me.

I'm surprised that neither Harangatan nor Cornroyo have spent significant time on the DL after the abuse they've taken for their third consecutive season.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honorable mentions

Braden Looper being an effective starter.
Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols getting off to terrible starts.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed re: marquis.

who can say they saw that coming from our beloved betty?

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure that was a strike even under....

...the old definition.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not even sure it was a strike

in beer league softball.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HP ump wants this game over....

...thus using an expanded strike zone.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What were Mike and John talking about

Colby Rasmus coming up?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JIMMY!!!!

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jimm-ah!

Dude is heating up. Maybe Ken Boyer is coming through that door.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hmm...so who

is gibson?

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kip Wells

HA!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for your sake,

i hope gibson doesn't read VEB. ;)

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you could only find Gibby now

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2 out Redbird rally plates two

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OK, since there is only the three or four of us...

...which comes through today:

Michigan's inept defense or
ND's inept offense?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

When was the last time the two teams

tied?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sean astin

will lead notre dame to victory.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

26 pitch 1st inning

for Lilly. Let's get to that bullpen early and often and drain them for Game 2.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like this plan

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My gosh, I want a sweep so badly.....

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looper, Looper, Looper

you're better than this.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The key to the bottom of the 2nd

is for Braden Looper to take the 1st to pitches. I'd rather get the pitch count up next inning than try to get that run back.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How did I not notice until right now

that Miguel Cairo was in this game?

Ugh.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you've heard of selective hearing?

methinks you have a case of selective vision.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why did Lee call off Fontenot?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless we totally blow this

Lilly should be at 50 pitches through 2 IP.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On the dot.

Nice job.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow, good call

shame miles couldn't do anything.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This next inning is key

we need to get that run back now and tack on another 20 pitches.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course So swings at the 1st pitch

and makes this much more difficult.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Friggin Taguchi

His 1 pitch, 1 out hurt that inning. 63 pitches through 3 IP. I'd say unless we have a bunch of So's come up to bat, he won't make it out of the 5th.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice job, carnac.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big reason we are in a loosing streak

is that the Cards are having a hell of a time manufacturing a runs like in the bottom of the 2nd. Just like in Cincy. The bottom of our line-up in a black hole right now with runners in scoring position.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hector Luna now batting for Toronto

against Baltimore.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fielder's choice.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly didn't think Mark DeRosa would

be THAT much better than Adam Kennedy this year.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought 2006 was a fluke

For DeRosa. He's been a pretty good, although expensive, bench player.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ECHO

ECHo
ECho
Echo
echo
echo

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fine pitching by Looper

If we can get Lilly to 90 pitches in the fourth, I'll be tickled pink.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Need to score here

if we can get 2-3 more runs I think we can get a win here. The bottom of the order needs to start producing if runners get on. Albert & Jimmy can't do all the work.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just missed that one--warning track power

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds was all over that

Juuuuuuust missed it.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

72 pitches through Yadi...

...Hardcore, you've got us all focused just like Pavlov's dogs.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Miguel Cairo, please go away

you are terrible.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No doubt

If Tony has to keep playing Cairo then Tony needs to start hitting the pitcher 9th again, because with him and Looper hitting back to back in the 7th & 8th spot, it's going to be tough to get anything production in the bottom of the order.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's amazing that TLR can't see

how bad he is. A .450 OPS and only 3 hits as a cardinal (22 PA), one of which was an easy fly ball that should have been caught?

If Upton does his job as a right fielder in AZ, Cairo's line looks like this:

.095/.136/.095

That's almost reyes-bad.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Taguchi's 1 pitch at-bat really hurts

right now. 82 pitches through 4. If Gooch had even just struck out swinging, Lilly would be CERTAIN to be done in the 5th.

Gotta make sure we throw a big inning up next inning. Even if we get 1 run, 20+ pitches is crucial.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bottom of the order

fails again. And Ryan is really struggling lately.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Braden Looper vs Cubs

April 20: W 2-1
July 26: W 11-1
Aug 17: L 1-2

Wow.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

is loop

available tonight or tomorrow?

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Were those all day games?

by hannah_in_va on Sep 15, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats So

it took you 2 pitches to make an out this time.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That'd be pitch 100

if Gooch had struck out in the last 2 abs.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugghhhh

Just realized the game is on WGN, could've been watching the whole time.

by OCCardsFan on Sep 15, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bunch of people signing on for the other games

so the ChannelSurfing feed is cutting in and out.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How do you switch...

...from the 16 panel to single game?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't

but if you double click on the window, it fills out the screen with all the panes.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, I need a 23" screen

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If a runner get on this inning

Tony HAS to ph Speezio for Cairo.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd let Red PH

for Cairo.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly, does TLR want to win?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only Jimmy had played against lefties

All year, what would his numbers look like?

by OCCardsFan on Sep 15, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If Cairo stays in

can we please suicide squeeze?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I am a better baseball player

than Miguel Cairo.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah

how about a foul pop out?

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

4 things pissed me off about that inning

edmonds wasn't hustling out of the box, so he has to hold at second when Soriano drops the ball
yadi bunts with a man on second
cairo was allowed to hit
braden Looper was allowed to hit (he's at 98 pitches!!!!)

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't mind looper hitting

we'd missed our chance by then -- plus, he has one of the team's four hits. here is what bothered me:

(1) bunting with cairo and looper coming up

(2) letting cairo hit

(3) the piss-poor quality of cairo's at bat, which underlined the egregiousness of (2)

here's hoping spiezio starts the next game and cairo is nowhere to be found.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

tony opts

for suicide without the squeeze.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is some piss poor managing!

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How is Brian Barden

NOT better than Miguel Cairo?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brian Barden's grandmother

is a better hitter than Cairo.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She's a better manager than ...

..."The Genius" too

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd REALLY like to get a look at Barden

I've heard great things about his glovework, but haven't had a chance to see it for myself.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why bunt?

when the next two hitters are cairo and looper? why does cairo have to play at all? this is the kind of thing that makes me sympathize with the anti-tony (or at least anti-crazy tony) camp. that was just plain bad. i can almost guarantee the cubs score in this next half inning. i have been sucked in YET AGAIN.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Without a doubt

there will probably be 3 HRs this inning.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could it be possible?

that we might lose this game b/c LaRussa let Cairo hit there? Probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but he may as well have pinch-hit himself!

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we lost last nights game

because Cairo got to hit last night as well.

The point of the expanded roster is that if Cairo's spot comes up in the 8th inning, PH for him and let a backup IF player play defense in the 9th.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is setting up for another

heartbreaker of a loss.

How in the hell can Tony let Cario bat there?
This team is going to be in 5th place in the Central by the end of next week, maybe sooner.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

With a 40 man roster...

Is there any reason we can't put together a lineup that doesn't include Russel Branyan or Miguel Cairo? Thats more depressing than the losses honestly.

by Quel on Sep 15, 2007 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

2 runs won't win this game!

Tony should've known that. I hope I'm wrong and maybe we'll still get another. Up 2 or 3, you can let Cairo hit there. Up 1 -- no way in hell!

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How about Looper?

Really well pitched game today. I can't watch this game due to blackout but, when I can, I can't wait to chart Looper's start. I think we can say that this experiment has worked.

Kip Wells...not so much.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

indeed

he's had his rough games, but he's been a trooper for the most part. i would welcome him back into next year's rotation, but would prefer is he were the team's #4 or #5 starter.

i don't think anyone could have foreseen looper being so much more dependable and effective than either wells or reyes, myself included.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The incredibly shrinking Wood on the rubber

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Channel Surfing

anyone with Internet Explorer.

Take the link to channel mix and put it into the address bar on a normal window.

Allow it to load.

then take increase your zoom on the browser to 600%, scroll over to the Cards game.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and a tip of the fedora to you, sir

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would really be nice if we

can actually get some runners on for Albert/Ludwick/Jimmy. We have not put any pressure on the Cubs pitchers since the 1st inning.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

one reason i go easy on miles

is because he is better (at least this year) than many of the alternatives, e.g., royce clayton, migeul cairo, etc. it seems like every team has one of these players. when i defend miles, it's keeping in mind that the points of comparison are dregs like cairo. cairo's presence defeats the purpose of having a miles, or at least nullifies whatever value he provides.

cairo = not a true cardinal.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cairo

How has this guy managed to stay in the majors for so long? I know Tony loves him and will probably always have a job with Tony, but i'm shocked the Yankees kept him for a couple of years.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

gawd, i love our offense.

<sigh>

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heckuva start by Looper

Applause...

by OCCardsFan on Sep 15, 2007 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Can I make a suggestion to Tony?

If we take a lead into the 9th inning, can we please let Troy Percival attempt the save?

Not that I don't trust Izzy but I'd rather have him fresh for the 2nd game instead of this one.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Leadoff walks suck

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Franklin ain't got it today

get the hook, hurry!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Told ya

Does Tony watch the same game we do?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

apparently not

if we hadn't taken an early lead, i wouldn't have watched this game, and i would not have experienced what will prove to be yet another heartbreaking loss. i really should know better by now. what's the definition of insanity again?

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know franklin has been good all year

but he has struggled lately. i would rather see springer (who did not pitch last night) this inning.

this is not crazy tony, but it is stubborn, set-in-his-ways tony.

i have a bad feeling about this inning. that was before he just walked the leadoff batter. bracing myself...

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

there should at least be someone warming in the pe

a righty and a lefty -- maybe springer and johnson. i don't get leaving in franklin without a net given his recent struggles and a one-run lead.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but

Franklin is the "8th inning guy". The index cards say so.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope Izzy's up

in the pen!

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Too late

Boom!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Franklin has turned back into a pumpkin

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 15, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How am I not surprised...

by hannah_in_va on Sep 15, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you can't say it was hindsight

i saw that coming a mile away.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We suck!

Thank you Tony " I'm a f***ing genius, just ask me" Larusso

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

tony is one of those guinness guys

from the commercials: "brilliant!" "brilliant!"

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

odd, I just popped open a guinness draft

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

only one?

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marmol will abuse the next 3 hitters

hopefully they give us Dempster again in the 9th.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pujols leads off

so there's a prayer.

I'd much rather have Pujols up in the 9th, though.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it possible

to be 0 for September?

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh well...

I may not have a team to root FOR in this playoffs, but atleast i'll have a team to root against.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 15, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i'll be rooting for the diamonbacks in the NL

and the angels and indians in the AL. against the cubs, mets and yankees. i could possibly pull for the phillies, brewers, or padres in the NL. the diamondbacks have a had a pretty remarkable year, even if they did send us off on our current slide into oblivion.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tie it up

Pujols.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

who wants to bet the cards

make their famous last stand...and leave the tying run stranded at third in the bottom of the ninth

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I told ya' 2 runs wouldn't be enough

I know you all knew it but TONY ---- ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION?

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How many of these games during the losing streak

have we had tons of opportunities to push across some insurance runs but TLR made some horrible calls and then we end up coughing the lead in the late innings.... It makes me sick

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry...

Cairo will save us.

by outraged on Sep 15, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bring Gallego back

Tony loves his old worn out veteran utility men so much maybe he can bring Gallego back. He's probably only about 50 now.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this pathetic streak may really be the end for ton

i've been a supporter of him despite the season's struggles, but this recent stretch has seen a lot of bad, bordering on indefensible managing. granted, there's not a lot of talent to work with, and some reliable players have let him down ... but how many times have we all been screaming for him not to make some move, yet he makes it anyway, only to have disaster strike, almost perfectly on cue.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"tony", not "ton"

although "tony" has made a "ton" of perplexing decisions lately.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade Tony for the ND fat boy...

...neither can put together an offense.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

unbelievable

of all the people in this lineup to pinch hit for, TLR is using Ankiel to pinch hit for LUDWICK. IE the second best power hitter in the lineup.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AP

All that warning track power. Man I miss a healthy Albert...

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cubs are going to sweep

this series now I'm afraid. With the hard hitting Phillies on deck for early in the week, I really don't see us geting a win for quite some time. It is starting to become embarring now. This team will be in 5th place by the end of the week.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't it be better

to hit w/ Ludwick and use Ankiel in the 9th vs. Dempster?

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well hell yes that makes sense, which is....

...exactly why tlr didn't do it!

Tony must owe Lou a big favor.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah

cairo-branyan-ryan will be a fitting end to this miserable game.

Actually, I'm hoping he pinch hits spezio for ryan just so he can truly say he's trying to hit bottom...

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Franklin's ERA

the last 14 days (not counting today) is 8.44.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Flo-mo

is warming up in the pen.

Thanks for taking a couple pitches Yadi! Way to make em work!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dang

I was looking forward to throwing my seat cushion on the field.

http://www.youatube.com/watch?v=JHZ-TnxcDN4

.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 15, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It honestly looks like Tony is trying to lose

why the hell would you pinch-hit for Ludwick?

That was as bad as pinch-hitting for Ryan last night.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

...it takes a concerted effort to manage this poorly.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, I get it

see, Ludwick is an outfielder. So is Ankiel. If he pinch hits one for the other he can leave Ankiel in the game in case we need a hit in the 11th inning.

that crazy TLR, always thinking 3 innings ahead, even in the 8th inning...

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's brilliant logic

it is why you PH Chris Duncan for Albert Pujols. Both have power, but Chris is LH against a RHP. He can also play 1st base.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a september to remember

and/or forget. it's safe to say that this september will go down as one of the worst collapses in modern-day cardinals memory. granted, they were never in first place, but for an hour or so, they were only a half-game back. i really thought LAST year was going to end up as a monumental collapse. there was less to lose this year, but whatever there WAS to lose, they have lost every bit of it ... and then some.

sorry if this sounds like the ravings of a mad man. it probably is.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Will Bill DeWitt

ever get upset with the way the team AND TONY is performing??

Just about any other owner other than maybe David Glass and whoever owns the Devil Rays & Marlins would HAVE to be thinking about making some MAJOR changes to the club for the next year.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice job

that lefty-lefty matchup sure worked well!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Derosa

needs to GIDP.....NOW!

C'MON YOU CARDINALS!

Lets go Russ!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

once again, the inconsistent hook

pulls flores after one batter (probably not a bad idea), but fails to do anything about franklin, who clearly didn't have it.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nothing strikes fear into Dempster's heart

than:
Cairo
Branyan
Ryan

good thing we used our best power threat from the bench last inning.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it strikes fear into my heart

does that count?

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wouldn't mind seeing branyan

just because he's due for a homer, and he can occasionally walk. as long as he doesn't come up with a runner in scoring position -- that would be a waste.

there's also spiezio and skip.

i'm not sure ankiel counts as a power threat at the moment, but hopefully he will re-emerge as one sometime soon.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Power threat

Ankiel > Cairo.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's true

but we can also say

cairo < wells

cairo < wainwright

cairo < miles

etc.

regardless of the many disagreements here, i imagine we are all united in our recent suffering and our dislike of cairo.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a few more

cairo < angela lansbury

cairo < ryan seacrest

cairo < nicole richie

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, thank the Lord the Cubs are still

the Cubs.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pitch out!

YEAH! Nice throw YADI!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Molina

Nice throw. Get 'im, Russ.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This team may have some dogs, but Yadi....

...ain't one of them.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 15, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

here's springer

one inning too late. he has been under-utilized this year in high-leverage situations, i would say, as has percival. flores (and recently franklin) have been over-utilized.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here is how the 9th will go

Cairo will get a single that is bobbled by the RF. Cairo goes to 2nd.
Branyan will hit a long fly ball to dead CF. Pie will catch it against the wall, Cairo will advance to 3rd. 1 out.
Ryan will hit a groundball to the right side. Cairo will fail to score on it. 2 outs.
Aaron Miles will pop up to the SS. 2 outs.

Runner stranded at 3rd.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

2 outs =3 outs.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would prefer

schumaker, branyan, ryan, spiezio, taguchi. still no recipe for success there.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if we are this disgusted with tony's

decision-making, what must the mood in the clubhouse be? how do the players get up for a game knowing their own manager is going to do everything in his power to screw them?

i've liked larussa, but like many on VEB, i hold him solely responsible for at least half of this losing streak.

and yet i'll watch again tonight.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We are going boom-stick

1st batter. Interesting decision.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why is Cairo being talked about

by the WGN announcers, that he will hit this inning?

My head is exploding!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nice pitches

makes swing look ugly!

wow, S.O. on three consecutive breaking balls! good waste of an at bat there!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this will be the fifth loss

of two runs or less on this 9-game losing streak.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If we lose 11 in a row

and the Cubs sweep us, I get a feeling that Tony will either announce this is his last year with the Cards or he resigns and Oquendo or Petini takes over for the rest of the season.

Just have that feeling.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's easy

to see where hole is in Branyan's swing. Three low pitches and swung over the top and missed by half a foot on each one. Not a keeper.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dempster ain't sucking

today.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Way to make Dumpster work Skippy

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dunc!?

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 15, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Duncan with a hernia over Ryan?

the decision to PH Ankiel earlier makes even LESS sense.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

you are correct, sir

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i had double hernia once

and its hard to walk without pain letalone take a good at bat against a MLB closer..

Crazy tony.. his treatment of dunc this yr..DET and here makes me ready for a change

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 15, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey this is a good spot for Ankiel!

and that way we wouldn't have to use the guy who's hurt and shouldn't be playing!

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

tlr's decision on next year

has to be getting easier by the day.

"and that's a loser..."

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

your manager of the year,

ladies and gents: tony larussa.

by acham8206 on Sep 15, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Can't be mad any more

this is just way too sad.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well I'm glad

he didn't have to run!

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why the hell would we use Duncan?

Tony should tender his resignation. Not only is he making poor decisions but he is sending out a guy that is in extreme pain. This is 10 times worse than Rolen.

Fire this prick.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Like I posted above

I think Tony is gone. It's just a matter of time on when and how it's announced in my opinion, I could be wrong. It will be Tony's decision though since DeWitt will probably have him back even if we lose every game the rest of the season.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TRL has lost at least 50%

of the games on this losing streak from bad managing.

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, please

this team's pitching is horrible! He's made some mistakes but the poor pitching and inconsistent offense is largely responsible for the slump we're in.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

regardless,

how many times have we had a one run lead and TLR has made some really questionable substitutions as far as manufacturing some needed runs

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You put the players in the position

to win or lose these games. They ultimately play the games.

However, putting Miguel Cairo and Russell Branyan in crucial situations, hanging pitchers who are struggling out to dry, etc is on LaRussa.

If we don't win tonight, it'll be a 4 game sweep. Maybe that'll be best. I'd love to see Oquendo manage the final 15 games or so.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Oquendo is heir apparent

however, TLR has too much pride to pack it in with only 15 games left, bc that makes him look like he is quiting on the team. But I think it is obvious that this team needs a change at the helm as the team is also going through a transition

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then fire him

he's earned it.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think that is the right message

to send. TRL has had an amazing run here and STL and has done a lot for Cards baseball... but its apparent that his message/passion have grown stale. He has lost the respect of many of his key players. Plus having Oquendo for the last 15 games of this year isnt going to do anything. We need to just let TLR head off into the sunset.

by KOA Cards on Sep 15, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunally our owner

seems to not have much of a breaking point and he won't fire Tony. Tony is going to quit or not come back.

I know Tony has had a great run, but a change is needed badly and you would think DeWitt would realize this after our 9th loss in a row.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not on the bandwagon, but...

The last season we had a nine-game losing streak, 1980, Ken Boyer was fired as manager between games of a double-header.

I don't blame all this on Tony, but this week has been the most depressing for me in recent memory—if not ever&151;sports-wise.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Per Bernie

before today's AB:

11 for 30 (.367), 4 homers... also, Floyd .333 vs. Franklin...

That is unacceptable.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree

That's the kind of situation Troy Percival came out of retirement for. Instead, he's relegated to mop-up duty.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

jeez

I'm a little more hesitant than many here to call for TLR's head, especially given the players he has to run out there every day. The fact is that no manager trying to make a playoff run should even have to think about Cairo or Branyan -- and it's the injuries that have brought those guys into the clubhouse.

But with regard to relievers, TLR always seems to be the last to get the memo. Franklin isn't a special player; the world won't end if Percival or Springer get the ball in the 8th. But TLR seems unable to change his perception that those two guys are contractually prohibited from pitching past the 7th in a close game . . .

by tdawg on Sep 15, 2007 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he DOESN'T have to think about them

that's what is so damned frustrating. There is no reason for Cairo to ever get an at bat for this team, yet he's gotten 20 or so during this losing streak. If we're gonna throw someone up there to get overmatched, let's bring up hoffpauir and at least get some value out of it.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're probably right

it's a combination of bad starting pitching, bad relief pitching, bad defense, and bad managing. what makes it more frustrating is that in the three quality starts we've gotten, the starters allowed a total of 6 runs, but ... the bullpen has also given up a total of 6 runs, and the team has only scored a total of 7 runs.

season officially over, with nails currently being hammered into casket. go brewers.

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be careful what you ask for

A management change makes no sense without different players. If Rolen can't come back and be Rolen, you still have Branyan/Cairo at 3rd base with a worse manager making the decision.

by Anteus on Sep 15, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe that

I believe with a different manager, Brian Barden and The Hauf get shots at either 2nd or 3rd base.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about if we were stuck w/ Garner?

A friend of mine from Houston emailed me that he had heard the Astros announcers say that Phil Garner may have an interview set with the Cards front office in October.

YUK

by nycardfan on Sep 15, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dunno

with the players we've got, we've lost between 5 and 15 games because of plain old bad decision making on how to use them (continuing to start Wells, waiting until august to replace Kennedy, giving Wilson and Encarnacion at bats over Ludwick, Miguel Cairo playing ball above AA, using Flores against righties and taguchi as a defensive replacement, playing Edmonds while hurt, burning TJ's arm out and then still using him, etc).

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

by willievinceterry on Sep 15, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well that was fun

Last year, during those 8 game losing streaks, it usually felt like incredibly bad luck at least half the time. This year it feels like we're getting beaten, soundly, even when we lose a 1-run game.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope Ned Yost

put a flaming pile of dog poo on Tony's front door on Monday morning.

Seriously we are basically giving the Cubs the division this series.
Now watch we will sweep the Brewers when we play them and make it complete.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

we handed the brewers a couple of free games when hancock died as well.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If TLR leaves...

he better do it pretty soon after the season ends. A lot of personnel moves will need to be made after it happens, and they'll need as much time as they can get.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 15, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How about my fantasy team?

the last two days I've had:
Wainwright
Snell
Oswalt
Halladay
Blanton

pitch for me. With Blanton going this afternoon, I've logged this line over the last 2 days:

1-1
31 IP
23 Ks
.87 ERA

Blanton is still pitching.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2007 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tough choice

We must either retool with younger players or commit to acquiring highly paid veterans in free agency. TLR cannot handle a young team. He is not built that way. If the team is really going to retool with youngsters (and that appears to be their direction), TLR isn't the right skipper. That is not to say that he hasn't done a great job in his 12 years here. He has. But his ownership and management equipped him with highly paid veterans who fit his temperament well. The new philosophy doesn't.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Isn't this team due for a big scoring game

Seems like all season we have had one of those a week. (Mostly on Sundays)
I think our only chance of a win in the next 5 games is to score 10 runs or more and hope the other team only score 9.

Of course as long as we have Cairo & Taguchi in a line-up the chances become slimmer that we score big.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2007 5:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sean Marshall

Is pitching this second game.

I aim to go to sleep tonight feeling a whole lot better than I feel now, be it by victory or booze.

by liam on Sep 15, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My advice to you...

is to start drinking heavily.

Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 15, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TLR sets a new standard for the team

"Every one but one of the games in this streak has been competitive. I don't think we're a nine-in-a-row kind of team. We've got more talent than that."

Sadly, I think we may be an eleven-in-a-row kind of team by this time tomorrow . . .

by tdawg on Sep 15, 2007 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So if it is not a lack of talent

what is it? Poor managerial decisions and decimated morale perhaps.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 15, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be foolish...

TLR is a great coach. Blame the players for not executing when the game is on the line. Tony can't pitch or swing a bat. The Tony does his job of putting players in position to win. If they don't execute it is not his fault.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Sep 15, 2007 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs


lilly	looper
15-7, 3.85	12-10, 4.70

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Game 146 Open Thread: September 15, 2007

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