Game 141 Open Thread: September 10, 2007
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5-3, 4.28 |
14-7, 3.85 |
i'd like to add my thanks and good wishes to erik, who yesterday wrote his final regular sunday post. he's added a ton of insight to VEB and contributed in many other ways besides the sunday posting. as he noted in his farewell, he'll still be lurking about in the comments and diaries and maybe on the front page in a pinch; he'll also be ever-present at Future Redbirds. so it's really not farewell at all; just farewell to sundays. great job erik, and thanks again.
i asked houstoncardinal if he wanted to take over on sundays, and he has agreed to do it. you guys all know him as the resident braden looper watcher (he charts loop's starts for the pitch-by-pitch project). i'm really looking forward to having him in the front-page mix. . . . . and as long as i'm on the subject of sundays, i've neglected to promote SB Nation's stl rams blog, Turf Show Times. it's written by ryan van bibber of Cardinals Diaspora; the blog launched in the midst of last season and is growing. so if you're looking for some views / conversation about the rams' loss yesterday, start w/ TST.
here's something else y'all may care about: daric barton's getting called up to The Show.
that takes care of the preliminaries. to the baseball: the weekend showcased all the reasons why the cardinals trail by 3 games in this lousy division. it was all there: the defensive lapses, the uneven pitching, the one-hit-shy rallies, the questionable managing, the off-field turmoil, the players lost to injury (the latest is duncan, who might need surgery for a sports hernia). all the missteps and mishaps outweighed --- not by much, but by just enough --- the many good things the cardinals did over the weekend: another solid start by wainwright, a solid bullpen appearance from wells, a lotta production from pujols, two big-inning outbursts. all three losses could, and probably should, have been wins, but i can't argue that the outcomes were unjust. the cardinals earned all three defeats.
by the way, "questionable managing" does not include the decision to lift wells for ryan franklin in the 7th inning yesterday. that was an obvious thing to do; franklin just had an off-day. later in that inning, another question came up in the game thread: why was franklin allowed to pitch to tony clark with the score tied, two outs, and the lead runs on base? why not tyler johnson there, to gain the platoon advantage? a legitimate question, and it wasn't a second-guess; the poster made that suggestion before clark's at-bat started. but if tony had gone to johnson there, bob melvin would have countered with the right-handed conor jackson, who has been hot lately --- 4 hr in his last 32 at-bats, including a 3-run shot off looper on saturday night --- and has pounded left-handers throughout his brief big-league career. melvin also could have gone to jeff cirillo, who doesn't have much left but can still punish a lefty. so there was no platoon advantage to be gained; a move would have needlessly burned a key reliever in a tie game that still had, at a minimum, 7 outs to go. give clark credit; he fell behind in the count, fought off some good pitches, and kept himself up there until franklin made a mistake.
the entire series thumbed its nose at the concept of pythagorean records (and i'm a subscriber to the concept, by the way). arizona has been outscored by 29 runs this season and "should" be carrying a record of 69-75; they're 12 games better than that. the cardinals have been beaten by 62 runs this year and ought to be 12 games under, per pythagorus; they've topped their hypothetical win total by 10. . . . . a more outliery pair of september contenders you'll never find. a few weeks ago, chris jaffe of Hardball Times explained that the dbacks' ugly run differential is a mirage produced lagely by what he terms a "bipolar bullpen." when they're ahead or the games are close, the dbacks use their go-to relievers, who are all above league average for their respective roles; but when they fall behind, they go to a mop-up corps that is awful even by mop-up standards. hence the disparity between arizona's pythagorean w-l and their real-life one: "they can dependably win an awful lot of close ones," jaffe writes, "but when they fall behind badly they have virtually no chance of recovery."
the same thing applies to st louis, whose bullpen is as dichotomous as arizona's. the teams have some other key attributes in common, including below-average offense (the cards are 10th in the league in runs/game, the dbacks 13th) and error-prone defense (the cards are 3d in the league in errors, the dbacks 4th). the only meaningful difference between them is that arizona has gotten 30 starts out of its cy young pitcher, while st louis has gotten 1. otherwise, they're pretty much the same team. the dbacks look like they won't get blown out in october --- not with a stopper in the rotation, an airtight bullpen, a deep and versatile bench. you stick a healthy carpenter in there alongside wainwright, and wouldn't the cardinals --- despite everything else that has gone wrong for them --- have at least as good a chance in this year's postseason as they did last year?
ah, well --- they don't have carp. it was a discouraging weekend near the end of a discouraging season, and it's tempting to count the cards out. hell, i counted them out almost two months ago. but even now, it ain't quite over; not yet. they've got a game on the schedule today, and they'll show up and try to win; the outcome will have a lot to say about how much the games that come after matter. the cubs' starter has been struggling of late; 10 homers in his last 47 innings and an era of 4.94.
suck his brains out, you zombies.
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367 comments
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I just want to beat the hell out of the Cubs...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 9:15 AM EDT
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good to see you around
Yesterday you were talking crazy talk of giving up on this team....At least you'll have something to root for today and through this weekend, eh?
:-)
by cardsfaninmass on
Sep 10, 2007 11:26 AM EDT
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I've given up on the team.....
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 11:56 AM EDT
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ABC
especially since they only have a couple of years to try - those contracts are going to kill them by 2010 or so.
by nycbirdo on
Sep 10, 2007 11:28 AM EDT
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Is today
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 9:35 AM EDT
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Absolute must win
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 9:56 AM EDT
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Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory
Sure it is easy to say they still have a shot with 5 games against the Cubs and 3 against the Brewers left on the schedule.
But with that said, I wonder how many more opportunities to move closer or take the lead can a poor team throw away and still have a realistic hope of winning the division. Such a team has a small margin of victory, even when completing against the like of the Brewers and Cubs. Can the Card:
Loose 5 out of 6 on the road against the Pirates and Nationals.
Split a 4 game set at home against the Pirates.
Have the likes of Matt Albers and Jojo Reyes dominate you.
Get swept in the desert with the teams top 2 starters going in the series.
Get swept in the desert after holding a lead in all 3 games.
Go 5-12 in road games in August.
The fact is that the Cards could suffer a few of these things and still win the NL Central.
But all of them? No.
by JMedwick on
Sep 10, 2007 9:42 AM EDT
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That series
I sure hope that handsome devil Joel has some sort of trick up his sleeve; I don't think I can stand to watch the Cards lose a fourth in a row. If I were a southern woman, I would fan myself and collapse onto a nearby Davenport when confronted with watching this team any more. However, given my sex and background, I'll stick with excessive game time drinking and occasional couch cushion directed tirades. Huh. What an odd tangent.
by the red baron on
Sep 10, 2007 9:42 AM EDT
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Any one think the unfotunately timed.....
by Red Blazer on
Sep 10, 2007 9:45 AM EDT
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NY Daily News did it's job...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 9:59 AM EDT
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It seems likely. When the author of
by MdRedbirdFreak on
Sep 10, 2007 10:01 AM EDT
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New Goal - finishing .500
You see, it's a joke! Revised a lyric from a song by THE Zombies and related it to OUR Zombies. Ok, I'm sorry.
Moving on...I am trying to make some sort of point about how I think we are pretty lucky to be in the position we're in, and it might be time to revise our goals for the season (one of many revisions throughout the year for sure). I also agree that our Pythagorean record is likely to catch up with us, so I've decided that I'm rooting for .500. That would put us as of now at +8 better than our Pythagorean record, which would be quite a feat.
I'll take 81-81. Secondary goal would be having a better record than the Cubs; maybe 81-81 will do that, who knows.
by lightbulb on
Sep 10, 2007 10:05 AM EDT
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Zombies
by brindled on
Sep 10, 2007 10:24 AM EDT
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Mine too
by cardsgirl95 on
Sep 10, 2007 10:36 AM EDT
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brains. BRAINS!
by sdrone on
Sep 10, 2007 11:05 AM EDT
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That would be...
by dralexp on
Sep 10, 2007 11:41 AM EDT
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Get the Cubs this weekend
by kingalbert on
Sep 10, 2007 10:31 AM EDT
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I predict 1-4
by Zubin on
Sep 10, 2007 10:40 AM EDT
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Duncan
by brindled on
Sep 10, 2007 10:41 AM EDT
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Per about.com
http://orthopedics.about.com/od/sportsinjuries/a/hernia.htm
What are the symptoms of a sports hernia?
A sports hernia typically begins with a slow onset of aching pain in the lower abdominal region. Symptoms may include:
o Pain in the lower abdomen
o Pain in the groin
o Pain in the testicle (in males)
Typically the symptoms are exacerbated with activities such as running, cutting, and bending forward. Patients may also have increased symptoms when coughing or sneezing. Sports hernias are most common in athletes that have to maintain a bent forward position, such as hockey players. However, sports hernias are also found in many other types of athletes such as football and soccer players.
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 11:02 AM EDT
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i agree
by CarolinaCardinal on
Sep 10, 2007 11:03 AM EDT
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Run Differential
I don't subscribe all to well to that theory and heres why:
Blow outs/Mop ups. When the white flag is raised on either side you rest your banged up vets, put in your experiments and just take her nice and easy at the ball park. You leave your starters out there to get roasted to save the bullpen, when that fails you put in Aarron Miles and Scott Spiezio on the mound, thus tacking more worthless runs on the the differential (I know they both have a 0.00 era but still). You don't put in Franklin/Izzy after Wells & Co just gave up 7 runs. You put in Jiminez and Dove to add even more runs to the down side of the run differential.
Even if you leave your starters in tact they're not going to be playing 100% or close to it.
Runs simply change value and in the cardinals case it's extreme. 5 more runs when you're already down by 6 doesn't mean anything except a distorted pythagorean.
I just did a quick and dirty re-adjustment. I simply erased all the blowouts (win or loss of 6 runs or more) and came up with a closer to record W/L.
523 Runs Scored vs 540 Runs Allowed which is a 68-72 record.
I've been meaning to do a Blowout-Free Pythagorean but been procrastinating, I'll do it tomorrow ;)
It'd be something where you only get credited/debited runs past a certain point in a game (i.e. if you lose 12 - 0 then it should only count as a 5 - 0 loss or such)
You could even make it more personal by team and game. I.E. After Maroth gave up 4 runs in the first 1/3 inning. The bullpen was fried so he left Maroth in there to give up 4 more then normally he'd be pulled. Tony then threw in all his bullpen experiments. they also got blown out giving up 5 more runs, thus a white flag total of say X. If the game was "ran" at 100% the entire way Maroth would have been pulled earlier, more reliable Relievers would have been put in, their average would be Y.
Adjusted Run Differential would now be X - Y.
Same can be applied for hitting too. Take your average runs generated prorated for the rest of the game and compare that with the scrubs you replaced them with.
by rocKStark5 on
Sep 10, 2007 12:08 PM EDT
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The issue being
by joker24 on
Sep 10, 2007 1:26 PM EDT
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This is getting insane
Kinney
Hancock
Carp
Rolen
Spezio
Encarnacion
Duncan
Mulder we already knew about. We knew Edmonds was gonna happen.
by sdrone on
Sep 10, 2007 12:10 PM EDT
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I keep forgetting about kinney...
by SleepyCA on
Sep 10, 2007 12:24 PM EDT
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Wow
2nd (Kennedy)
3rd (Rolen)
Left (Duncan)
Right (Wilson)
Starting Pitcher (Carpenter)
Have all been lost for the year?
by Robb on
Sep 10, 2007 12:31 PM EDT
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Taguchi
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2007_lu.shtml
104 different lineups, and a 127 different orders. The only consistent thing this season was inconsistency.
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 1:27 PM EDT
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Other DL participants
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 1:09 PM EDT
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Pujols and Edmonds
We've got a 6 man rotation and only 2 pitchers who seem to be able to pitch: Wainwright and Suppan 2.0
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 1:16 PM EDT
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have to agree
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 1:41 PM EDT
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rotation question
by CarolinaCardinal on
Sep 10, 2007 1:34 PM EDT
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Think he might
Pineiro, Mulder, Bullpen (probably Maroth), Wainwright, Looper is our current announced order. It is easy to just start that over again especially if Maroth is effective, that would give us Looper, Pineiro, Mulder and Maroth against Chicago this weekend. Though the way Wells pitched yesterday he may have earned his spot back again at least for the next "bullpen" start.
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 1:42 PM EDT
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i think
http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html
by Supergus on
Sep 10, 2007 1:42 PM EDT
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Ok, just stop teasing us on that idea
by sdrone on
Sep 10, 2007 2:02 PM EDT
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the worry
- we make the play-offs
- suffer more injuries getting there
- showcase our AAA roster in prime-time
by Hinkster on
Sep 10, 2007 1:51 PM EDT
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Question
I havent seen any of these guys pitch expect for Looper who seems to dominate the cubs, but for the next 2-3 years i see Wainwright, Carpenter, Mulder (maybe not?), i dont know your farm system too well so maybe one of your prospects is near major league ready.
by dylanj on
Sep 10, 2007 2:06 PM EDT
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Lets see
Mulder
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
FA
I assume we pick up Pineiro's option because if he can pitch even half way as decently has he has so far then he is worth the 8M in this market, and unless we get a steller deal for Loop then he is a steal for next year as well. Franklin could replace Looper if he is dealt though.
Carp will come back and possibly replace one of them but you have to plan on not having carp at all or you won't need him when he does come back.
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:09 PM EDT
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i hate to say this...
http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html
by Supergus on
Sep 10, 2007 2:14 PM EDT
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If so
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:22 PM EDT
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Cubs Rotation
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:14 PM EDT
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pitchers
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 2:17 PM EDT
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They were down on him
At this point, the Sox will trade anyone. But their asking prices are high. I doubt we have anything they'd want. Rasmus, maybe.
by sdrone on
Sep 10, 2007 2:19 PM EDT
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speaking of,
http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html
by Supergus on
Sep 10, 2007 2:21 PM EDT
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Hopefully not
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:23 PM EDT
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Vazquez
I guess it is all about preception for each fan base. With his stats he would be our #2 pitcher for sure.
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 2:25 PM EDT
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i'd love Vasquez
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 2:31 PM EDT
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hah...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 2:32 PM EDT
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TRUE
We need a solid pitcher for next year.
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 2:27 PM EDT
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Keep in mind
by Big Red on
Sep 10, 2007 4:39 PM EDT
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AWESOME LINEUPS!
Taguchi 7
Pujols 3
Ankiel 9
Molina 2
Edmonds 8
Miles 4
Pineiro 1
Eckstein 6
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:25 PM EDT
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gameday
Cubs:
Soriano 7
Theriot 6
Lee 3
Floyd 9
ARam 5
DeRosa 4
Jones 8
Kendall 2
Lilly 1
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:28 PM EDT
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Lineup/Ludwick
Does So hit Lilly well?
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT
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Thank the maker
I love Yadi but why is he patting 5th and Edmonds 6th? I know Lilly is a lefty and all but Molina is a DP waiting to happen.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 2:38 PM EDT
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Luckily I missed this nightmarish weekend...
This has to be the worst lineup in baseball this year.
by guayzimi on
Sep 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT
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TV
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:36 PM EDT
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That answers my question below
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 2:39 PM EDT
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Weird
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 2:42 PM EDT
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for whatever reason it's not listed on the
but according to the broadcast yesterday, and this, the game will be on FSN.
good thing. i didn't want to have to listen to the shit heap that is WGN.
by stlcardinalsfang on
Sep 10, 2007 3:25 PM EDT
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It will be on Extra Innings
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 2:39 PM EDT
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Wow, it sure is dead in here
Just to bring this up: In 1973 on this date, the St. Louis Cardinals stood atop the NL East with a 72-71 record. The New York Mets, in 4th place, were 69-74 (3 games back).
The Mets finished the season at 82-79, a 13-5 record to finish out the string. The Cardinals came in at 81-81 (9-10) to finish 1.5 games back.
Here's to the Cardinals avenging that letdown!
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:24 PM EDT
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Bah
by mojowo11 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:28 PM EDT
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Did Ankiel get booed?
Also, I hate the NY Daily News. They've completely effed him over. I just hope he can come back okay next season.
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT
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How many times
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT
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He has hit 4 balls in the last 4 games
Those 4 balls get over the wall and we are going for our 5th win in a row.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:33 PM EDT
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H-G-H
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:32 PM EDT
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They seriously chanted that?
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 3:35 PM EDT
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Yup
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 3:36 PM EDT
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First televised game that I've seen,
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 3:34 PM EDT
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Balls jumping
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 3:38 PM EDT
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I think that bat was corked!
j/k
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 3:38 PM EDT
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Nice hitting by Floyd
by mojowo11 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT
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Molina has changed his gear
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:43 PM EDT
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Yes
by cardsgirlinAR on
Sep 10, 2007 4:13 PM EDT
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Yay
by mojowo11 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:45 PM EDT
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Gameday....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT
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GameDay
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT
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Atta Boy Jimmy!
Looks like the ball is carrying out to left. We need to get our boys to start pulling the ball for righties, and pushing the ball for lefties.
C'mon you Redbirds!
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT
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All right, Jimmy!
by liam on
Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT
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MILES
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT
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Floyd bobbled the ball and it got away from him
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT
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He got stuck sliding
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:50 PM EDT
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very forgivable
by _pistol_ on
Sep 10, 2007 3:53 PM EDT
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I will not cry
by RedbirdRay on
Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT
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i'd take him as a bench player...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT
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Someone explain what happened on Miles play?
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT
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Throw up a zero Joel
As I say this, he gets squeezed.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:51 PM EDT
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Edmonds screws with the Wrigley drunks
Love it.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 3:55 PM EDT
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Argh
by hannah_in_va on
Sep 10, 2007 3:56 PM EDT
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Gameday showed that over the wall
by effin fisk on
Sep 10, 2007 3:57 PM EDT
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bad placement
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:04 PM EDT
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Again...gameday...
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 3:57 PM EDT
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Broken bats
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:00 PM EDT
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Maple
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT
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The Hungarian was talking...
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT
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Taguchi
by mojowo11 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:01 PM EDT
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What is with Soriano's little skip on fly balls?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT
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It's nice
by _pistol_ on
Sep 10, 2007 4:05 PM EDT
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3 steps shy
Why can't Piniero get a call on the corner?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT
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At Wrigley
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:08 PM EDT
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Soriano
by saladdays on
Sep 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT
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He wants to lead off
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:07 PM EDT
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Stick him anywhere else in the lineup ...
Plus, he doesn't want to.
by Urban Pawnee on
Sep 10, 2007 4:07 PM EDT
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If there was ever a guy who was a candidate
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT
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What a baby
by saladdays on
Sep 10, 2007 4:10 PM EDT
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soriano
in 8 PA in 5th .000/.000/.000
in 1 PA in 8th he has a double
in 487 PA leading off .306/.341/.550
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:12 PM EDT
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Not a huge sample size
by saladdays on
Sep 10, 2007 4:18 PM EDT
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The last time he batted in someplace
by Big Red on
Sep 10, 2007 4:44 PM EDT
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Same reason Duncan batted 2nd
Manager=nuts.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:07 PM EDT
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Manager = Nuts
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT
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Pitchers
2SO 3H Lilly
0 BB both
1HR Lilly
Pitches-strikes: Pineiro 40-26, Lilly 41-29.
Ground outs-fly outs: Pineiro 1-5, Lilly 2-4.
Batters faced: Pineiro 11, Lilly 11.
Pretty even game.
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT
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I despise you New York Daily News
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:14 PM EDT
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Blame the media.
by Urban Pawnee on
Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT
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StL sports cursed?
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:16 PM EDT
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Not to be negative...
I hope Ankiel proves us wrong. Go get 'em Roy Hobbs!
by BigMOman on
Sep 10, 2007 4:17 PM EDT
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Uh....
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:19 PM EDT
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Derrek Lee...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:20 PM EDT
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cmon dude
by longhornscardinals on
Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT
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Damn
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT
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Game Over.
Pineiro is done, not fooling anyone anymore.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT
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lol.........
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT
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Still think it's funny?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:26 PM EDT
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4 runs in
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT
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Yep...
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT
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This coming from a guy who blames a
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT
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No
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:35 PM EDT
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Rick was the one who took the stuff
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:37 PM EDT
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Yes I do
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT
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were they to left field as well?
by BigMOman on
Sep 10, 2007 4:23 PM EDT
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Just a FYI
by cardsfaninmass on
Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT
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thank god Carpenter has never given up 2 hr's
by TriplePlay on
Sep 10, 2007 4:23 PM EDT
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You know we're playing in Wrigley, right?
by saladdays on
Sep 10, 2007 4:25 PM EDT
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Is this some sort of defense of Pineiro?
Anyone who has watched Pineiro's starts has noticed that he allows a lot of hard hit balls...and for some reasons, those balls were finding gloves, which I thought was making it seem like he was 'really effective', when he was actually really shaky.
by cardsfaninmass on
Sep 10, 2007 4:32 PM EDT
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Come on Cards
Three loses to the Dbacks and losing to the Cubs. Ya gotta help my Rocks.
BTW: There is no misery that is too bad for a Cub fan.
by PinchHitLancePainter on
Sep 10, 2007 4:25 PM EDT
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Tack on another
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT
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Cavazos
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT
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Lilly with a double
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT
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WTF is going on?
by jeff abs on
Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT
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he was DFAd in the middle of the season
by stlcardinalsfang on
Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT
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Threw it right down the middle
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT
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this may do it.
and the cardinals season is slipping away. . .
by stlcardinalsfang on
Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT
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What happened?
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT
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Pitching
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT
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Can Cavazos
by saladdays on
Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT
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I hate the Cubs and Chicago
-their dump of a city
-their lousy weather
Boston, Chicago and Philly are the worst places in america.
by PinchHitLancePainter on
Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT
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That is one bad Gameday picture
by hannah_in_va on
Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT
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Silver linings
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT
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Piniero is beginning to look
Now if we can have a season without everyone getting hurt next year, that's be fun.
by lawman3842 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:32 PM EDT
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comebacks
by BigMOman on
Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT
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when will they cancel the makup game
by hex706f726368 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:37 PM EDT
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They are just taking huge rips now
Cavazos doesn't belong on the roster but what else are you going to do? Tony used Thompson for only 2 innings yesterday and fried the pen.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:39 PM EDT
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As tough
Sure, I second guess and question his moves sometimes, too. Show me a knowledgable fan of any club who never has occasion to do the same.
But I defy anyone to show me a manager who has been able to pull off this much with this little. Injuries to Rolen, Eckstein, Pujols, Edmonds, Duncan, Molina, Encarnacion, Wilson, Spezio, Carpenter, and the death of Hancock. That's pretty ridiculous.
I'd wager that the Cubs would be smelling the Pirates' asses if Ramirez was ineffective due to shoulder problems and eventually shut down, Zambrano was on the DL for the whole year, Howry'd been killed in an accident, and Kendall, Lee, DeRosa, Jones, and Floyd had all been injured.
Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is that the boys have done well to get this far this year, with all of the problems they've had.
by lawman3842 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:38 PM EDT
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Pitchers
- Wainwright
- Looper
5.
I think of Looper as a 4th or 5th starter. If he is a 5th starter next year our team looks good. Other wise the Cardinals need a lot of starting pitching help.
I have about a 15% faith in Mulder at this point.
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 4:41 PM EDT
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Nice Job AP
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:41 PM EDT
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Got to
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:42 PM EDT
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Idiot
by Cardinal70 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
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Why pinch hit for Cav?
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:43 PM EDT
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How much has TLR done?
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:42 PM EDT
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He's done a lot...
I know he is easy to dislike and question...but he's brought pretty damn good baseball to St.Louis in the time he's been running things..
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
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In that case...
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:49 PM EDT
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wow...
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:52 PM EDT
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admittedly...
But man, he pisses me off with about 2 goofy decisions per series.
Anyways, hopefully he can prove me wrong and get the Birds into the post-season.
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT
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In some talking head circles ...
There's something to that, but it's all turning to ashes on a gray afternoon at Wrigley.
by Urban Pawnee on
Sep 10, 2007 5:08 PM EDT
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This season?
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:46 PM EDT
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I would argue that the pitching
On offense TLRs insistenct on having Vets mean we have a team filled with older and injury prone players. Miles, Kennedy, and Cairo are replacement level at best. Yet they got lots of playing time.
Would we still be in 3rd if we had reconized that Kennedy didn't still have it and started playing Ryan a lot earlier? Every game that Miles or Cairo starts is a game TLR has put us at a disadvantage.
by DriverZn on
Sep 10, 2007 4:57 PM EDT
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kennedy not historically replacement level
cairo has not had "a lot" of playing time.
by willievinceterry on
Sep 10, 2007 5:30 PM EDT
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also
Probably, yes. Miles has not put the team at a disadvantage. His hitting numbers are actually better than plenty of other middle infielders. Cairo -- he's there out of dire necessity. Kennedy had a track record of success; Ryan's success was fairly unexpected. It was not up to TLR to "DFA" Kennedy just so he could play Miles. The guy has a 3-year deal and was an unexpected major bust -- NOT TLR's fault.
by willievinceterry on
Sep 10, 2007 5:34 PM EDT
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also
Probably, yes. Miles has not put the team at a disadvantage. His hitting numbers are actually better than plenty of other middle infielders. Cairo -- he's there out of dire necessity. Kennedy had a track record of success; Ryan's success was fairly unexpected. It was not up to TLR to "DFA" Kennedy just so he could play Ryan. The guy has a 3-year deal and was an unexpected major bust -- NOT TLR's fault.
by willievinceterry on
Sep 10, 2007 5:35 PM EDT
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below .500
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
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TLR
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 10, 2007 4:47 PM EDT
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Nice way to make up those runs guys
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
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Good lord...
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:52 PM EDT
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walks.....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:53 PM EDT
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What is DeRosa crying about?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT
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No one warming up
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT
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The only bright side...
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 4:55 PM EDT
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Can we activate Spezio to close out this game?
by Valatan on
Sep 10, 2007 4:59 PM EDT
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Why bother?
by chuckb on
Sep 10, 2007 5:02 PM EDT
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Sick feeling
by riescher on
Sep 10, 2007 5:04 PM EDT
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I hadn't thought of it...
by bdub78 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:06 PM EDT
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Another Drubbing.....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT
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Gotta get 4 runs this inning
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT
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So's about to get the rally going
by effin fisk on
Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT
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Booya!
In all fairness, Eck started the rally. But So drove it home.
by effin fisk on
Sep 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT
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Classy Cub fans
Wow, class just oozes from the bleachers.
Way to make him pay So!
by yer dog first on
Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT
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Fuck you Ted Lilly
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT
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the so man!
http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html
by Supergus on
Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT
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oh my
2 run homer!!
by brindled on
Sep 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT
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poor albert's
by SleepyCA on
Sep 10, 2007 5:11 PM EDT
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3 strikeouts for Rick.......
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:15 PM EDT
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The only time I've seen him play in person
by effin fisk on
Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT
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Rain is coming
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT
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Ryan out
by StLHugo on
Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT
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Are we stalling?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:19 PM EDT
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It ain't gonna rain
by Big Red on
Sep 10, 2007 5:31 PM EDT
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What's the "Injury delay"
by effin fisk on
Sep 10, 2007 5:22 PM EDT
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The Riot fouled one off his back foot
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:23 PM EDT
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Jimenez and Cavazos
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:24 PM EDT
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Lou Pinella Manager of the Year?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:24 PM EDT
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when did jiminez become a viable bullpen
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:25 PM EDT
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Perhaps he just needed some seasoning
by Valatan on
Sep 10, 2007 5:29 PM EDT
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We need atleast 1 run this inning
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:28 PM EDT
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Aaron Miles with 2 outs
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:30 PM EDT
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This isn't the end of the world
Perhaps the Cardinals can pull some magic out of their arses but if they are going to do it, the 8th would be the time with Pujols potentially up with RBI opportunities.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:34 PM EDT
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Need to.....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:36 PM EDT
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Nothing spells 'rally' like
Eckstein
Branyan
Pujols
Ankiel
Molina
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:39 PM EDT
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Hardcore is hittin on all 8.....
....and damn I hate Chit-caw-go. Can you imagine any one of the Cubs players ever coming out and saying they dont condone or agree with the Chi-fans behavior?
by cardschinmusic on
Sep 11, 2007 4:35 AM EDT
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Man, if you're intentionally walking Jacque Jones
by sdrone on
Sep 10, 2007 5:41 PM EDT
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his line against us this year:
.368/.454/.590
By not allowing Hendry to trade Jones to FLA, Selig probably won the NL central for the Cubs...
by SleepyCA on
Sep 10, 2007 5:45 PM EDT
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Lilly done
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:42 PM EDT
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Umm...
by champion on
Sep 10, 2007 5:43 PM EDT
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Yay!
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:44 PM EDT
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HOW MUCH do we pay these guys????
by faninexile on
Sep 10, 2007 5:44 PM EDT
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Since most of them started in Memphis
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:45 PM EDT
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They are just imploding.....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:45 PM EDT
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Tony has thrown his hands up in the air
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:46 PM EDT
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oh hell yeah.....
by Timbo02 on
Sep 10, 2007 5:46 PM EDT
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Maroth throwing in the pen now???
by faninexile on
Sep 10, 2007 5:47 PM EDT
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Yulp
Or something like that.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:48 PM EDT
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You know, with all of these maple bats
MLB players and umpires are soon going to be wearing NHL Goalie equipment!!!!
by faninexile on
Sep 10, 2007 5:49 PM EDT
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They should just ban them
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:50 PM EDT
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Lamentation
Ha, when I first read this, I read it as "lamentation", which is highly appropriate for today and perhaps the season.
by dralexp on
Sep 10, 2007 5:52 PM EDT
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Well, that disaster is over.
by Valatan on
Sep 10, 2007 5:50 PM EDT
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Alright, here comes the 5 run inning!
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 10, 2007 5:51 PM EDT
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