Game 120 Open Thread: August 18, 2007
by lboros on Aug 18, 2007 9:30 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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2-11, 5.48 |
5-6, 4.25 |
excluding their head-to-head games, the cubs and cardinals are both .500 teams --- cubs 56-56, cards 55-55. the cubs lead the head-to-head series by 3 games, 6 wins to 3, and that advantage accounts for their entire margin in the standings over st louis --- as well as their margin over .500 and, correspondingly, the cards' margin under. the teams play each other 6 more times; st louis needs to win 5 of them to take the season series. the way things are going, those outcomes may be decisive.
or maybe not.
no complaint about yesterday's game --- both teams played good defense, and both pitching staffs managed to locate most of their pitches within angel hernandez's fitful strike zone. the cardinal hitters were inordinately impatient --- didn't take a single called strike in the 1st inning, and only 2 in the 2d; in the 8th and 9th innings, they didn't take a single one --- saw 14 strikes in those two innings and swung at every one of'm. even david eckstein went up there hacking yesterday; he only took one called strike all day. saw 13 strikes in his 4 at-bats; swung at 12.
of interest elsewhere:
- if you were wondering how the flight path of rich hill's fastball differs from that of his curve, read this; highly technical, but the graphs are easy to read.
- coming soon to the wrigley field outfield: eddie van halen?
- the guy who filed this lawsuit definitely needs a blog. i'd read it. . . . . .
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Mr. Riches
He doesn't have a blog, but more of his work can be found here:
is it me
It doesn't matter if the cards are playing so it's not that he hates the Cards. As soon as I hear his name I know that at some point he will be in an arguement with one of the managers before the game is over explaining some odd view of some odd rule.
Just the fact he is the only ump that I know not only by site but also by name. He's the Kelly Frazer (sic) of MLB.
The only thing
I would assume that all teams are bedeviled by individual players who aren't all that good against the rest of the league, but turn into Roy Hobbs/Joe Hardy against their squad. Had it been Derrick Lee or Aramis Ramirez on the other end of that homer, I'da accepted the result with more equanimity.
But getting beat by Jacque Freakin' Jones(!!!) is like being suffocated by a swarm of gnats... AAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!
Ah, well... go get 'em today, guys!
The Cubs fan in my office...
7 more times Larry
If Juan starts today
He's 0 for 5 against Marshall, while Taguchi and Edmonds each have atleast gotten a hit against him.
Give me an outfield that consists of 3 of these 4: Gooch, Ankiel, Ludwick, Edmonds and I'll be happy.
Speaking of which, I'd love the Cardinals to take the next 3, tie the Cubs in the standings and have Ron Santo openly weep on the radio come Monday afternoon.
If the Brewers don't win today, it could be a sweep by the Reds..giving the Cardinals the chance to make this a 3 way tie in the NL Central by Tuesday.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
Disturbring Trend
April 8-11 --- then lost 5 of 6
July 27-31 --- lost next 5
Aug 12-16 --- lost to Cubs
If they are going to prove that they are in this thing, they gotta avoid the huge letdown from their most recent surge and put a few W's on the board at Wrigley.
It starts today.
A hearty middle finger...
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2007 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
Right with ya
by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
never tried xm
I recommend the MLB radio package; only 15 bucks a season and you get ALL the games, both home and away... with archiving... and a lot of pre and post game stuff.
-- I don't work for them, but I find the package essential, and have had no problems with it --
*the 20 second delay is annoying if the game is also on TV. but if it avoids Joe Morgan, it is endurable.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Audio
by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here...
So why have Fox and MLB decided that I can't watch the Cards-Cubs game?
Try Fox Sports International
hardcore legend
I owe hl a debt of gratitude since I got to see Ankiel hit 2 hrs last Saturday since I had to watch the Pirates-Giants on local tv.
I've never heard of this link
For some reason there is a Cards-Cubs link up for today that says "(Audio)", then there is a Yanks-Det link, and a "TBA" link....I'm hoping this "TBA" link is video to the cards game...that would be amazing!
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
channelsurfing
by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
the only option is the...
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Swingin' Early Yesterday
Weather in Chi-town
Could be the makings of a day-nighter tomorrow - at least we'd all get to watch those two games!
It doesn't
I live in the Western Suburbs
Radar says there's a couple of storms between here and Iowa. It's a pretty dark sky with a heavy, low cloud cover, although it was much darker about 30 minutes ago.. Luckily, its a fairly early start with a late game tomorrow. Should give them plenty of time to get the game in.
And they better play tomorrow, I have tix and am looking forward to seeing Kip out-pitch the newly, obscenely rich Carlos Zambrano.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Cubs vs. Cards
It stinks that the Cubs are in first place right now because the Cards sweept the Brewers scoring 10+ runs each game, but couldn't get more than 3 hits against 7 innings of a tired Rich Hill.
I'm not a Juan hater, but I say play Ankiel in his place today, lefty vs. lefty matchups be damned. If Ankiel goes 0-5 on the day, it will at least be more fun to watch than Juan going 0-5. Plus, I say Ricky gets a hit or two and keeps the streak alive. And if you bat him second, he might even draw another free pass in front of the 3-5 guys.
Please beat the Cubs. At least make the season interesting.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
so sick of all
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to restate
I'd even start Bennet instead of Yadier today, even though Molina has been hot as of late. You know it would drive the Cubs fans crazy.. He's our version of Barrett.
What can you do about Rolen and Jimmy though? Rolen pretty much NEEDS to start at 3rd now that Speez is gone--his defense is why he's there. And Jimmy seems to be making plays like his '04 self again, so I don't see who else you start in his place. Maybe Ankiel in right and Juan in left?
by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
if this team is going to suceed
I'm not in favor of playing Ankiel against lefties yet. he needs to be in a position to succeed and get his confidence up. That is why he is batting second (in front of Pujols) despite his K rate.
I know you state you're not a Juan hater, but then you go off and say it would be "more fun" to watch him go 0-5. Ouch! I can say that while Juan could use an 0-5 game to get his swing back, Rick def. does not need that type of game to shake his confidence (no matter how much it gives you goose bumps to see our one and only 'natural' come to the plate)
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does it need contribution from Juan?
Against LHP, an argument could be made that Ankiel, Ludwick and Taguchi should all get to start before he does.
He should have been traded. Had he been, Skip Shumaker would be up here..a better defender with more speed and from his minor league and major league stats, not completely inept at hitting LHP.
I feel bad for Juan, but when it comes to the pennant race, I'd prefer he spend his days eating seeds on the bench.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I really, really don't get this
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Juan vs Skip
You want to bolster Juan's case because of his July, then let's compare:
Player PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO GDP BA OBP SLG OPS
Juan E 81 73 11 26 4 0 2 19 6 14 3 .356 .400 .493 .893
Skip S 51 46 11 20 5 1 2 8 3 5 2 .435 .460 .717 1.177
The team has shown over the last 2 weeks that they can score, they can win without Juan Encarnacion. They have replacements for him, ones who aren't feuding with the manager over missing groundballs in the outfield and not running out groundballs hit.
Bottom line: Juan should have been traded. I was against it at the time, thinking they needed a hot hitter like he was in order to compete. I was wrong. They can do it without him and his contract.
Tony's line about without Juan, we don't have a true cleanup hitter is hogwash. Juan has 1 HR batting in the 4th spot. Sure, he has a high average, but he has 10 XBH as the #4 hitter in 120 ABs. Chris has 8 XBH in the cleanup spot in only 73 ABs. He just doesn't give anyone else a legit chance to be the cleanup hitter, just like he doesn't give Brendan Ryan a legit chance to be the leadoff hitter.
Juan being on the team allows LaRussa to stay stubborn and doesn't force his hand to make changes.
Maybe I'm confused about what a cleanup hitters is supposed to do, but I'd prefer one that doesn't dink and dunk his way around the bases.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
he also has a .332 BABIP
check out his recent historical LD% vs BABIP:
Year team LD% BABIP BABIP-LD%
2004 LAN 14.30% 0.2450 0.10
2004 FLA 18.90% 0.2850 0.10
2005 FLA 23.70% 0.3370 0.10
2006 STL 20.00% 0.3050 0.11
2007 STL 17.70% 0.3220 0.15
Which one of these is not like the other?
You could make an argument for Ludwick and Ankiel
So, on the other hand, is actually better across the board against lefties and has actually hit for more power (although not that much).
Ludwick absolutely struggles against lefties and Rick only has 1 hit (in only 7 ABs), a double, so it kinda inflates his slugging %.
But we are fogetting about Edmonds' and Duncan's struggles agains lefties. Although, Duncan is still better than Ludwick against south paws.
If you wanted the absolute best outfield today agains Marshall, it would be Duncan in left, So in center, and Juan in right.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
ludwick vs lefties...
in june: .167/.167/.292 24 PA
in july: .259/.375/.481 31 PA
in august .333/.474/.800 17 PA
So you can say he was awful in May/June, but he adjusted and been quite good the last two months.
So we throw Rick's MiLB numbers out
Juan has a high average against LHP, but he has 6 XBH against lefties in almost 100 ABs. This is the guy we bat cleanup against LHP. Conversly, Ryan Ludwick's low average against LHP has produced 11 XBHs in just 90 ABs.
You put Duncan in but leave Ankiel out? Why?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you watched Rick bat against lefties?
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
Thanks for clearing it up, Tony.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I assumed you wanted to win TODAY
Which is it?
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't make sense
You used 7 at-bats to declare Ankiel a failure against LHP. Juan is 2 for 7, with 2 singles against LHP in his most recent ABs. He clearly deserves to start.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
First hand experience
I don't want to hear about him not having good at bats against lefties, because I've seen otherwise first hand.
by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Against LHB
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
In the past 2 years,
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
most of us
as far as Juan's "clutchness" goes, he just seems "clutch" because he has had so many opportunities. According to THT stats his clutch rating is (-2.9) -- his batting average goes down almost 20 points with RISP. (Skip, whom you mocked, is a +2.5). Combine that with his .759 overall OPS, his propensity to kill rallies by GIDP, and his awful defense, and there is no reason he should be a starter on this team except against very tough lefties and probably not even then, as Ludwick's numbers vs lefties continue to improve.
Wasn't it Skip?
You guys are hilarious, there wasn't one person on here 2 months ago who thought that Skip belonged in the major leagues let alone the starting lineup. Now, we have people clammoring for him to start because he got hot for a month.
And to make the agrument that LaRussa plays favorites with Juan in the 4 hole is funny. Does LaRussa like Juan or not? I'm starting to get confused.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Your point?
What has Juan done in his entire career to show that he deserves the number of ABs he gets, the position in the lineup he holds or the contract he is being paid?
No one thinks Skip should be the starting RF for the Cardinals, this year or next. However, if put into the outfield platoon with Duncan, Ankiel, Ludwick, Taguchi, Edmonds he could be extremely valuable as a defensive replacement, a starter against LHP and a baserunner.
How many of those things is Juan, ever?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see anyone
We are allowed to change how we expect a player to perform based off of his actual performance, aren't we?
I don't disagree that Skip has produced
And I appoligize about the "Juan being a TLR fave" since it wasn't you who made the comment. It was Hardcore who said, "Juan being on the team allows LaRussa to stay stubborn and doesn't force his hand to make changes."
But since you guys are on the same side of this argument/discussion, I lumped you together. As for HL's quote above, I guess you can interpret that a couple of ways, but I see it as TLR being stubborn = favortism.
Anyway, back to Skip. He hasn't really improved his at bats that much. He's just getting luckier. That hr he hit against ATL was atrocious. He hit it off the ground, pracitally between his feet.
Since that at bat, he's gone 3 for 13 with 1 double (mostly pinch hitting). Once again, I like Skip, but he's been streaky and unreliable.
And, finally, lets all be realistic here. Juan isn't going anywhere. People can yell and scream all they want, but he's staying put. Save for a trade, but that seems unlikely.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Has nothing to do with favoritism other than
Skip doesn't have to replace Juan, other than as a roster spot. The removal of Juan allows for what we have seen over the last 2 weeks: better lineups created by Tony.
As for Juan being traded, he will be. It just won't be until the offseason. Unlike Rolen and Edmonds, who have had scruffs with Tony, Juan doesn't have a) the support of the fanbase or b) the contract prohibiting a trade.
Someone out there will be looking for a lackluster, yet steady RF bat for a moderate contract. Atleast, we can only hope.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Empty promises
Anyway, so now LaRussa is favoring Juan because he's a vet? Well, either way, he's still apparantly favoring him.
Because LaRussa only plays vets. Like Molina, Duncan, Wainwright and ANKIEL. Yup. I'm sure Mike Matheney and Ozzie Smith would agree 100% with you.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Game hasn't started
Have you run out of straw yet? These arguments are getting thinner and thinner.
It's pretty clear that no amount of statistics or comparisions will make you believe anything other than that Juan somehow deserves to be in RF today.
Good luck with that. I'm sure he'll have a fantastic day of doing nothing. Maybe he'll get an RBI single and really show us!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
And I didn't realize you storming off was dependant upon the actual start of the game since you made the proclimation an hour before the game.
As far as statistics? Sure I pay attention to them, but I don't feel they're the end all be all like this is some sort of video game. I look with my eyes as well. I see things like when Ankiel swings at every slider a foot outside thrown by a lefty, and then strikes out looking on the next pitch on a strike on the inner half of the plate.
Rick's gonna be a fine ballplayer. Hell, he'd be fortunate to put up Juan's career numbers. But, he needs work on hitting and, more importantly, identifying pitches thrown by major league lefties.
And your right, Startup's a good pitcher. But he's a long way from Billy Wagner. He's still in AAA facing AAA hitters....big difference.
As for today, I hope I am right and Juan's the better play today. Although, unlike you, I'm not going to make predictions on a cold, rainy day in Chicago a day after Juan played for the first time in a week and a half.
Also, I'm not going to throw a fit and refuse to watch a game because I don't like a right fielder. So, go on with your day once the game starts and we'll be watching to see if you stay away from the board.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
RE:
Like Molina - He's been the starter for 2 years now
Duncan - Doesn't get to play against LHP and was sent back to Memphis last year despite showing power
Wainwright - spent last year in the bullpen while Sidney Ponson and Jason Marquis started games. Spent most of the year in the 7th inning until Izzy finally cried "Uncle" and forced Tony's hand
ANKIEL - It's August. It's not like he SUDDENLY started hitting HRs. He and Ludwick were going toe-to-toe, yet Ludwick has been here for 3 months.
And I didn't realize you storming off was dependant upon the actual start of the game since you made the proclimation an hour before the game.
No one is 'storming off'. I just refuse to follow today's game with Juan in the lineup again, today. I said this a 10 am today and I'm sticking to it.
As far as statistics? Sure I pay attention to them, but I don't feel they're the end all be all like this is some sort of video game. I look with my eyes as well. I see things like when Ankiel swings at every slider a foot outside thrown by a lefty, and then strikes out looking on the next pitch on a strike on the inner half of the plate.
Every slider? In SEVEN AT BATS. How can you possibly say that with such a small sample size? You 'see' Juan because he gets to play. And then he puts up the 'statistics' that show he doesn't really need to be in there.
As for today, I hope I am right and Juan's the better play today. Although, unlike you, I'm not going to make predictions on a cold, rainy day in Chicago a day after Juan played for the first time in a week and a half.
No one is basing Juan not playing on just yesterday.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Italics are fun
Like Molina - He's been the starter for 2 years now
Yes. But he was cristened the starting catcher the year before, even while Matheney (a gold glove vet) was on the team. Plus, Tony said over and over during Molina's rookie year, that he didn't care if Molina batted .000, his defense made up for it.
Duncan - Doesn't get to play against LHP and was sent back to Memphis last year despite showing power
But got every opportunity to play with hand grenades in the playoffs.
Wainwright
But was on the roster all season and worked his way into an important role (but that's the old school approach, so it probably doesn't count)
ANKIEL
Did you forget that Juan (the vet) was benched immediately in favor of Rick?
No one is 'storming off'. I just refuse to follow today's game with Juan in the lineup again, today. I said this a 10 am today and I'm sticking to it.
Yes you are. What's next? Are you going to hold your breath and refuse to eat your dinner?
Every slider? In SEVEN AT BATS. How can you possibly say that with such a small sample size?
Um, I can say it because I've seen it.
No one is basing Juan not playing on just yesterday.
Really?
Cloistermaximus did when he said "If Ankiel goes 0-5 on the day, it will at least be more fun to watch than Juan going 0-5."
And again with "I just think that Ankiel has a better chance of getting some hits because he HASN"T been sitting on the bench for a week + and needs time to warm up."
I'll grant you that YOU did not make the comments. But, it's within the confines of the the argument/discussion so its out there. But, I know you wouldn't make those statements because you like CurtFlood. It doesn't matter what Juan does, you hate him.
Anyway, Game On!!!
No more comments from you!
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what a "clutch rating is"
Call me "old fashioned", but to me, 100 RBIs is a mark of a pretty good player in terms of driving runs in. To think that Skip Schumacher could equal that level of production is just ludicrous.
And btw, his average is up 10 points (.295) with runners on and two out.
Regardless of all of these stats and numbers, I can count on two hands a number of GAME-CHANGING hits he has had this season. And THT stats can't measure that.
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
you should learn
Anyway if you put a better hitter in the same position, he's going to have at least as many RBI's, so RBI's is a silly way to look at a players performance. Had Ludwick or Skip had the opportunities that Juan has had, our team's record would be at least as good and probably 1-2 games better. I'll let you google WARP3 to figure out why on your own.
Ok, dude
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
nah
As far as the numbers go, they just happen to help to quantify what I see when I watch the guy play. It doesn't always work that way; there have been many times a guy is much better or much worse than I think he is from watching- like Juan last year (see my posts from the off-season about him, in which I played the same role you are playing now) or Aaron Miles, whom I over-appreciated last year.
Look, if it helps your "old school" way of thinking, Ludwick was leading the PCL in RBI's when we brought him up in May. When he was coming up as a prospect in the Indians organization at the same time as Travis Hafner, he was rated more highly by scouts who watched them play side by side. His career was derailed by being brought up to the major leagues too soon and then by a series of freak injuries (HPB led to broken wrist, fat first baseman falling on him, breaking his leg, etc). He's not just some random AAAA player who caught lightning in a bottle when we decided to give him 200 AB's.
Anyway now that I've thoroughly jinxed him, I guess we can watch play. (If it stops raining...) Sorry, Ryan.
Ahh, reason
Juan isn't a bad player, just not worth his contract to us.
lineup
- David Eckstein, SS
- So Taguchi, CF
- Albert Pujols, 1B
- Juan Encarnacion, RF
- Scott Rolen, 3B
- Ryan Ludwick, LF
- Yadier Molina, C
- Anthony Reyes, RHP
- Brendan Ryan, 2B
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions
Ugh
Good luck Cards!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he's not as "hardcore" a fan
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You show 'em Lenny!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, what is your deal?
I can't watch Juan hit cleanup anymore
I'm excited this team has gotten back into contention. I'm excited they've let younger guys (Ankiel, Ryan, Ludwick, Reyes) prove themselves and give this team a spark. I want the Cardinals to win.
I just can't stand to see Juan go another 0 for 4 hitting in the 2nd more important spot in the lineup.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He's been off for a week
in defense of hardcore (and some others)
Call me deranged, or less of a fan all you want, but I will tell you this: if the Cards win a close and exciting game, by 5-4 say, and Encarnacion had a lot to do with it, maybe three RBIs and a good catch or two in the outfield... MY joy in that victory is significantly diminished from what it would otherwise be.
It is visceral, emotional, and subjective, yes; but I for one can't help it. My heart has long ago decided that I can't stand even seeing him wear the sacred birds on the bat.
I have to go back to Gregg Jefferies to find a 'Cardinal' I disliked more -- and HE hit .335 over the two years I suffered him wearing the uniform.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm gonna take a stab and say
You do realize that cardfaninmass and I are not the "numbers" guys, right? We're not the ones using sabermetrics. Not that they're wrong to use those, there's a ton of useful information in there, but you might want to figure out who you're "defending".
And second. The birds on the bat logo is not "sacred". Its a logo.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're not a SABR guy
If you go more off of anecdotal information, how can that possibly help Juan Encarnacion? He is the king of 'bad images'.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you miss the part about
And did you not realize that there are interviews and other discussions on here as well?
If I enjoy the site, and get a DIFFERENT perspectvie than my own, what's it to ya?
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
sigh
What I was trying to defend (and if I misread and attached it to hardcore, then give me an E-8) was a feeling a Cardinal fan might have such that he would ignore a game he would otherwise be dying to pay attention to because of a fly in the ointment HE (personally, viscerally, subjectively) perceived.
I also think it is an amazing leap to label what I posted as "hatred," but if that is your analysis, so be it.
And the lawyeristic trick of saying the 'birds on the bat' is just a logo. Carumba! You know very well what I meant by that phrase and how I was using it.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If it's not hatred
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
new here and love it
the BOB ain't scared
welcome to VEB ;)
Off topic
http://www.actober.com/Moments.aspx
New York-associated teams make up 6 of the 10 available videos for defensive plays. Edmonds tops most if not all of these. I have it on DVD and could rip it but would like their download instead.
Interesting
rain delay
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
I just ran out to get beer
I wouldn't put it past them
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What's the word
I live in Chicago
I dunno, we used to play little league games in this weather.
playing in the rain
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
rain delay still in effect
I'll second that
Looks much worse than it is.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
unless that was a 'still' picture
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
I'm sure it has something to do with some
Something about peeing in a fountain cause you are a true Chicagoian.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
don't forget
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
They are Cubs fans...
They're idiots.
Btw, did anyone here hear about the Mets fan who got thrown out of the stadium a couple of weeks ago? He was sitting in the bleachers and caugt a Cub homerun. Keeping with tradition.....he threw it back.
Stadium security threw him out!!
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I did hear about that...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
an exercise in meanness, maybe...
The no-brainers, for me, would be Bonds in LF, Clemens pitching, and Juan E in RF.
Then Barrett catching, possibly Aramis R at 3b.
After that I have to start thinking.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:28 PM EDT reply actions
from the era of your name....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, this could be an ugly game...
Theriot 0-3, 2k
Jones 1-6
Lee 2-6, 1 2b, 1r, 1bb, 1k
Ramirez 1-6, 1hr, 2rbi, 3bb, 1k
Ward 0 pa
DeRosa 2-3, 2 2b, 1bb, 1k
Murton 2-6, 1hr, 1rbi, 1bb
Kendall 1-3, 1r, 1rbi
Marshall 0 pa
Total: 9-33 (.273), 3 2b, 2hr, 6bb, 5k
The Cards vs. Marshall:
Eck 2-5
Gooch 3-5, 1 2b, 1rbi
Albert 1-4, 1bb, 1k
Enc 0-5, 1k
Rolen 3-4, 1hr, 2rbi, 1bb
Ludwick 0 pa
Yadi 1-5
Reyes 0 pa
Ryan 0 pa
Total: 9-28 (.321), 1 2b, 1 hr, 2bb, 2k
BTW, Edmonds is 1-2 against him.
All this happening in crappy conditions...
stlfan
Tell that to Odalis Perez...
Or for that matter, Chris Capuano vs. Albert.
I'd predict this. Both those pitchers know he's got an OPS of about 9.367 against them, and it sure as heaven affects how they pitch.
That Clemens double play was nice
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
Then patted Inge on the back....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
he patted him on the back..
Gibson
by Hammondsbird on Aug 18, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch the game!
Click the "mlb gamemix" at the bottom and you get a feed featuring 16 separate screens...one of them is the cards-cubs game....get those squinting eyes ready...
Can anyone tell me how to get..
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and now I not only....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Taking Nerdy Up a Notch
That's amazing
by hannah_in_va on Aug 18, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That can be figured by...
by mynameistyler on Aug 18, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
enc sees two pitches
Better wear a cup
by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
for people who can watch the game
he's hit 93 a couple of times
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
oh no
And now he is probably being told how bad that
If our offsense can get it together I'll take my chances with Reyes.
Runners LOB...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed
during the Yanks/Tigers game...
gibson
That's it...drag him off the field....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
well in Juan's defense
Why is Juan still around?
by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
Way to work the count guys...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply actions
This game...
Work the count dammit!
Ryan
That's not promising
Goodnight Irene...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
Can't blame Juan for that one
For some reason, something gets into that guy's head and he strings together the screw ups.
I thought he was getting better too.
I'm pretty sure
marshall's august ERA
and juan obliges before i can post!
One AB too
I'd call that a rally killer but I remember too many multiple home run comebacks in this park.
Let's hope the rain holds off.
Well now we have to hope
It's looking like all we did this week is was just helping the Cubs get in 1st, by sweeping the Brewers and then letting them run over us. UUGh.
this game's not over,
No, blackout is for the entire game....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're asking
Fox has exclusive rights to the entire game and any game that STARTS before 7 eastern time.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
With this feller struggling to find the zone
I also blame Juan for that only being a solo HR.
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 18, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions
yikes
I am sure glad we keep throwing low strikes
so tired of watching the cards lose to the cubs
If you can tell me where I could go to find out for myself, I don't mind doing the research.
yesterday
by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
cardsfaninmass
I hereby
by glennrwordman on Aug 18, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Should we be able to tag Marmol with a few?
Marmol...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not even close
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not even close
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really since they
Plus, Lou finally figured out that Marmol can't start but when he can go to 2 pitches he's really tough to hit...that is if he can find the k-zone.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Herzog v. Larussa
Herzog with St. Louis - .530 winning percentage
LaRussa with St. Louis - .545 winning percentage
I will do some more research on cubs v. cards.
Duncan swung at a ball that hit him in the leg
However, you cannot advance to first on a dropped thrid strike that hits you.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
speechless
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:33 PM EDT reply actions
Apparently they're saying
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
They're wrong
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
unless ludwick was hurt
absolutely robbed
that was
by Hammondsbird on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply actions
That sounded like one of the more bizarre
Also, I'm still not sure what the hell happened.
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply actions
send duncan down to AAA
by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply actions
i have no idea what he was swinging at
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he's terrible...
by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
lboros thought
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
lets wait until
I guess we just got lucky
making his earlier suckitude
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
too bad he already sucked enough
by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate...
Speaking of which...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
still so upset....
We've had some seriously bad mojo with Cubs
by Urban Pawnee on Aug 18, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
At least at Wrigely
Plus the Cubs seem to play their best games of the season against us at Wrigley. Got to give them that though, they step it up against us.
it just seems like in
Whatever Jim
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:45 PM EDT reply actions
I'm so sick of this
Let's cash in at least a little here....
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 18, 2007 6:51 PM EDT reply actions
Gawd, before my post even went through
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 18, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Solo home runs and stranded runners
gonna have to wait
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
ths umpire staff
let them finish the curent at-bat. it's no fair to the pitcher or hitter to come out and resume play during a 1-2 count.
Oh yeah.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if you've ever been to Seattle
Wild pitches in the bullpen intentional?
Not sure why they would
yep
If it does go back, Dunc's screwed. He's got a 2-strike count and will likely have to face a new pitcher(and a lefty at that).
so, when are the circumstances
There was a Yankee-Oriole game that got resumed in the 8th inning a month later??!??
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
that's such bs
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
right you are...
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd assume,
And, if I see another effort agaist Dempster the Cards displayed yesterday...
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Rain Delay off topic: The Diamondbacks
They will be a scary team to face in the playoffs, for whoever will face them. If the season ended today I think they are the team that will get to the WS.
This game isn't over yet?
Hope and pray for a late rally!
Go Cards!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 7:47 PM EDT reply actions
I think they'll finish it
Yeah, if you've got some
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ouch
I'm headed to the airport, but I'm calling it: Duncan takes a pitch then crushes the next one right down the middle.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell?
Must be one last little shower going over that they don't want to mess up the field.
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:03 PM EDT reply actions
haha
Where are you located?
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Its better than COPS
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
They are waiting on
this is torture.
WGN Radio
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:13 PM EDT reply actions
or thereabouts
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
can this be?
Way worst in the league, if so. Cincy and Pitt and next to the bottom with 18 each.
We are also apparently last in stolen bases. The league-leading Mets have nearly four times as many (151/40).
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 8:18 PM EDT reply actions
Speed is not our game
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, eight triples
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I rarely
These umpires have been atrocious today.
Angel Hernandez is involved
by martin on Aug 18, 2007 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not referring to that
The Angel Hernandez crew
Not saying Dunc would have crushed a homer before it was delayed but they had to make Chirs think about it for an hour.
and the lefty
What kind of name
He's a dude and his name is Carmen.
Maybe he should pitch for San Diego.
Okay, I'm lame....
by Petkovsek on Aug 18, 2007 8:23 PM EDT reply actions
Awesome
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Heidi syndrome
Jeanie LIED TO ME.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 8:31 PM EDT reply actions
Jeanie
I almost feel cheated
- Pujols being safe - 4-5 and a possible extended inning
- Duncan was robbed on having to come out and face another pitcher at 1-2 after sitting in the dugout for an hour.
yep, very frustrating.
They could
This is why
Our luck if this ever happens Angel Hernandez will be part of the up crew.
Plus,
I just can't believe
Well
I can't wait to see what Angel Hernandez's crew has in store for us tomorrow night.
Just looking at Ward's homer again
The sad thing is
it is sad,
The wind has been blowing in both days
by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Stop blaming the park
Flip Side
I'm confident with Wells going tomorrow and a bunch of "core" Cardinals looking to get a good tone set for the next five-six years.
I now know 2 things
- If Jocketty wants to get rid of Reyes, go for it. I'm off his bandwagon. You don't give up grand slams to freaking DAryl Ward in a freaking pennant "race."
- The sooner MLB gets rid of umpires, the better. Perhaps replace them with magic 8 balls. Every freaking year. The 2004 playoffs. Affecting multiple series in the 2005 playoffs. I won't bring up He Whose Name Won't Be Spoken.
yeah, Reyes can't handle the pressure
It was disconcerting, but it was one pitch. For the most part since his return from the minors he has shown increased tenacity - that is, he bears down when things go wrong. This is his Achilles Heel - I think he'll figure it out eventually.
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think his stats
How much slack does a guy get for winning one game in the world series?
Weaver won in the world series as well and I don't hear people on this site protecting him from his high ERA this year.
by nycardfan on Aug 18, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
It's not saying that he has been good this year, it's the straight bullshit answer that he doesn't handle pressure well and because of that we should dump him. How many were in favor of that before today...based off of 3-4 good starts?
He did not have a similar bases loaded
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
you can isolate that kind of
Reyes' comments in the Card's MLB story
Not the attitude I expected from him--how about admitting the extent of your mistakes and then saying that you'll learn from them for future games?
His downplaying the errors of walking guys and hitting somone with a pitch before he allowed the grand slam doesn't look good.
And it doesn't bode well for his future.
by nycardfan on Aug 18, 2007 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Reyes
But I'm not ready to throw Reyes away yet, and I hope the Cards are not etither. Yes he did have a bad inning and his mistakes bit him and his team in the ass, but other than that inning, he did pitch ok. He did only give up 3 hits, but sadly one of them lost the game.
Starting pitching isn't cheap, and since we don't really have anyone on the farm that can come up and take his spot and be just as effective, now isn't the time to get rid of him.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think they should at least give him until next year at least unitl May or June. And if he's still giving up big innings then yeah, cut him loose. But I think other than a few mistakes a game (and today's was a big one) he is an effective starter and has a good future. Also keep in mind if the Cards could have scored some runs in most of the games eariler this year Anthony has pitched in, he would not be 2-12, at worst I would say he would be 6-10. And I think I'm saying this not in a "protective" sort of way to him.
It depends on the other pitchers
If he has another couple games like this one, I'd trade him as soon as Mulder is ready to go and before he loses much more value.
Thompson pitched as well or better in his inning. He can step in if Mulder needs some back-up. At least Thompson doesn't have a history of big implosions. And we have a history of winning when he pitches.
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
To the bandwagon
Yes he had a bad day and it sucked. However, We deal with it and move on same as we would if Albert went 0 for 5 or Molina gave up multiple SB in a game.
If he picks back up on his previously
Duncan was right in the P-D this morning when he said "First of all, you don't want to get into a jam. But if you do, you've got to be able to make pitches to get out of it... That usually determines if you win the game or lose it."
With Reyes' season, it's open to question whether he has the capability to do that consistently--does he have an "out" pitch to save a game from spinning out of control? If he proves that he doesn't--whether that be for physical or mental reasons, then I'd rather have a more reliable pitcher.
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
And Reyes is not Pujols or Molina
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Molina is one of the worst
The comment I was responding to
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean Molina's defensive capabilities
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the worst?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 19, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Too harsh
Well he should be equally pissed about
If the guy won't acknowledge what went wrong to set up those five runs, how can he learn from his mistakes? It was obviously not one pitch that was a little bit off. It was a whole inning of pitches that were a lot off.
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
what i don't get is
Still, if denying that it was his fault helps him get back on the mound and strike more guys out, then I'm all for him pretending it was my fault or TLR's fault or whatever. Forget this emo crap; who gives a ^%*& whose fault it was? It's baseball, grand slams get hit every day by unlikely heroes (and Daryl ward is not that bad of a bad player, probably better than Encarnacion at this point and none of us would be surprised to see Enc hit a slam off of a fly ball pitcher).
Right, Juan is a fair target for anything
I'm not looking into his psyche, but measuring what he says in public against what other players on our team have said after they have lost games. It's not that deep of an analysis because all we have is the public record. But I don't think it's a good indicator.
If--and I say if here--he doesn't acknowledge and learn from mistakes, he's going to be in even more conflict with Duncan since he's said that is central to pitching for the Cards.
by nycardfan on Aug 19, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
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