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Game 120 Open Thread: August 18, 2007

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in News Comment 371 comments

reyes

marshall

2-11, 5.48

5-6, 4.25

excluding their head-to-head games, the cubs and cardinals are both .500 teams --- cubs 56-56, cards 55-55. the cubs lead the head-to-head series by 3 games, 6 wins to 3, and that advantage accounts for their entire margin in the standings over st louis --- as well as their margin over .500 and, correspondingly, the cards' margin under. the teams play each other 6 more times; st louis needs to win 5 of them to take the season series. the way things are going, those outcomes may be decisive.

or maybe not.

no complaint about yesterday's game --- both teams played good defense, and both pitching staffs managed to locate most of their pitches within angel hernandez's fitful strike zone. the cardinal hitters were inordinately impatient --- didn't take a single called strike in the 1st inning, and only 2 in the 2d; in the 8th and 9th innings, they didn't take a single one --- saw 14 strikes in those two innings and swung at every one of'm. even david eckstein went up there hacking yesterday; he only took one called strike all day. saw 13 strikes in his 4 at-bats; swung at 12.

of interest elsewhere:

  • if you were wondering how the flight path of rich hill's fastball differs from that of his curve, read this; highly technical, but the graphs are easy to read.
  • coming soon to the wrigley field outfield: eddie van halen?
  • the guy who filed this lawsuit definitely needs a blog. i'd read it. . . . . .

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Mr. Riches
That's not even his funniest lawsuit, Larry. My favorite one was the one in which he alleged that George W. Bush was a time traveler and that Condi Rice was a "NASA-created experiment."

He doesn't have a blog, but more of his work can be found here:

http://dreadnaught.wordpress.com/

by birdjam on Aug 18, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh yeah...
Go Cards! Beat the Cubs!

by birdjam on Aug 18, 2007 9:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is it me
Or does angel Hernandez randomly pick a rule out of the book before each game and try to call it at some point that day?

It doesn't matter if the cards are playing so it's not that he hates the Cards. As soon as I hear his name I know that at some point he will be in an arguement with one of the managers before the game is over explaining some odd view of some odd rule.

Just the fact he is the only ump that I know not only by site but also by name. He's the Kelly Frazer (sic) of MLB.

by Harknights on Aug 18, 2007 9:53 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only thing
that annoyed me about yesterday was that Jacque Freakin' Jones... a poor man's Juan Encarnacion... beat the Cardinals with his catch of "Boog" Ryan's extra-base bid, and with his two-run dinger!

I would assume that all teams are bedeviled by individual players who aren't all that good against the rest of the league, but turn into Roy Hobbs/Joe Hardy against their squad. Had it been Derrick Lee or Aramis Ramirez on the other end of that homer, I'da accepted the result with more equanimity.

But getting beat by Jacque Freakin' Jones(!!!) is like being suffocated by a swarm of gnats... AAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!

Ah, well... go get 'em today, guys!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Aug 18, 2007 10:02 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Cubs fan in my office...
... refers to those types of guys as "Cubs Killers." And I'm pretty sure his list includes every player in the National League. And a lot of the American League as well.

by birdjam on Aug 18, 2007 10:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

7 more times Larry
You said they play 6 more times, in fact they play 7 more, the last 3 this weekend and a 4 game set (doubleheader to make up for the postponed April game) in StL as well.

by StLHugo on Aug 18, 2007 10:20 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Juan starts today
I may boycott the game.  I just can't watch him waste space out in RF anymore.

He's 0 for 5 against Marshall, while Taguchi and Edmonds each have atleast gotten a hit against him.

Give me an outfield that consists of 3 of these 4: Gooch, Ankiel, Ludwick, Edmonds and I'll be happy.

Speaking of which, I'd love the Cardinals to take the next 3, tie the Cubs in the standings and have Ron Santo openly weep on the radio come Monday afternoon.

If the Brewers don't win today, it could be a sweep by the Reds..giving the Cardinals the chance to make this a 3 way tie in the NL Central by Tuesday.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 10:47 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disturbring Trend
What I'm concerned about is something that has happened twice this year and would not shock me if it happened again. This streaky and wildy inconsistant Cardinal team has had three different four-game win streaks this year, and haven't faired well for the next week's worth of games following each one. Below are the dates of each win streak and how the team did immediately after...

April 8-11 --- then lost 5 of 6
July 27-31 --- lost next 5
Aug 12-16 --- lost to Cubs

If they are going to prove that they are in this thing, they gotta avoid the huge letdown from their most recent surge and put a few W's on the board at Wrigley.

It starts today.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Aug 18, 2007 10:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A hearty middle finger...
to the Fox Saturday afternoon blackout on mlb.tv, thanks a lot guys. I'll be sure to (not) enjoy the Yankees game you're force-feeding me.

by mikedallas23 on Aug 18, 2007 12:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right with ya
I, shockingly, got the Cards-Dodgers at my S.C. home last week. No such luck today. My TV will be on and defiantly tuned to a non-FOX network while I monitor on Gameday. I have XM, but there's no way I can stomach Santo unless the Cards take a big lead.

by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 12:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

never tried xm
for that reason.  My understanding is you only get the home team announcers.
I recommend the MLB radio package; only 15 bucks a season and you get ALL the games, both home and away... with archiving... and a lot of pre and post game stuff.
-- I don't work for them, but I find the package essential, and have had no problems with it --
*the 20 second delay is annoying if the game is also on TV. but if it avoids Joe Morgan, it is endurable.

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Audio
Yeah, that is a big drawback to XM. I used MLB Audio a few years back. Listening to the home team announcers is only annoying when it's the Cubs. I can tolerate the other ones, for some reason. Guess that means the Cubs are truly a rival. In the postseason, both the home and road feeds are available for those times when away from a TV.

by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same here...
What is the point of me not being able to watch Cards-Cubs in East Tennessee? I would imagine the game is a sellout, first of all, so I'm clearly not being punished for not buying a ticket to the game (despite living about ten hours away from the stadium) the way the NFL punishes its home market fans when games don't sell out. And I know there are more Cubs/Cards fans in this part of the country than Tigers/Yankees fans - our local minor league team is a Cubs affiliate, too.

So why have Fox and MLB decided that I can't watch the Cards-Cubs game?

by birdjam on Aug 18, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Try Fox Sports International
I heard that Fox Sports International is showing the game (I got this from the BCB thread, thanks Cubs fans good idea!) and then you can use MLB Gameday Audio (which I think is included with the mlb.tv package) for your sound.  That is if you get FSI (this is a Spanish broadcast btw)

by StLHugo on Aug 18, 2007 12:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hardcore legend
usually posts this.  You might be able to watch it free here:

http://channelsurfing.net/

I owe hl a debt of gratitude since I got to see Ankiel hit 2 hrs last Saturday since I had to watch the Pirates-Giants on local tv.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 1:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've never heard of this link
....fascinating - though highly illegal it seems :-)

For some reason there is a Cards-Cubs link up for today that says "(Audio)", then there is a Yanks-Det link, and a "TBA" link....I'm hoping this "TBA" link is video to the cards game...that would be amazing!

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

channelsurfing
I fear this site will be shut down soon. It has to be illegal. Until then, I'm using it and telling very few people about it.

by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the only option is the...
mlb "gamemix" link....You get the cards-cub feed on a minuscule screen amidst 16. Better then nothing, I suppose....

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 4:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Swingin' Early Yesterday
Maybe the Cards were swinging away to avoid getting hosed by Angel Hernandez at some point in the count?  I would wonder if all teams take fewer strikes with him behind the plate; he is if I'm not mistaken voted the worst umpire every year by the players.

by stash3630 on Aug 18, 2007 12:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weather in Chi-town
looks rather ominous

Could be the makings of a day-nighter tomorrow - at least we'd all get to watch those two games!

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It doesn't
look like Chicago's forecast for Sunday is any better - 70's, cloudy/rainy all day.  

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 18, 2007 1:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I live in the Western Suburbs
(about 40 miles or so west of the city/Wrigley) and it just rained here.  Granted I didn't even realize it, but enough to possibly push the game back.

Radar says there's a couple of storms between here and Iowa.  It's a pretty dark sky with a heavy, low cloud cover, although it was much darker about 30 minutes ago..  Luckily, its a fairly early start with a late game tomorrow.  Should give them plenty of time to get the game in.

And they better play tomorrow, I have tix and am looking forward to seeing Kip out-pitch the newly, obscenely rich Carlos Zambrano.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cubs vs. Cards
This thing that has always bothered me about these series is that it seems like the Cubs ALWAYS pull out a win from a magic hat against the Cards--even when the Cubs are a fielding a terrible team and the Cards are winning 105 games that year, the Cubs seem to have the upper hand.  I'd like to see Iboros break down the series wins/loses vs. the Cubs over the 2000-2006 run where the Cardinals have always had a superior team (with the exception of 2003 of course).

It stinks that the Cubs are in first place right now because the Cards sweept the Brewers scoring 10+ runs each game, but couldn't get more than 3 hits against 7 innings of a tired Rich Hill.

I'm not a Juan hater, but I say play Ankiel in his place today, lefty vs. lefty matchups be damned.  If Ankiel goes 0-5 on the day, it will at least be more fun to watch than Juan going 0-5.  Plus, I say Ricky gets a hit or two and keeps the streak alive.  And if you bat him second, he might even draw another free pass in front of the 3-5 guys.

Please beat the Cubs.  At least make the season interesting.

by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 1:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so sick of all
the juan bashing....the dude had a week off - let him get back into the swing of things! No one complains when he's gotten clutch hit after clutch hit this season, while Rolen and Jimmy languished away.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just to restate
That I am NOT a Juan hater.  I just think that Ankiel has a better chance of getting some hits because he HASN"T been sitting on the bench for a week + and needs time to warm up.

I'd even start Bennet instead of Yadier today, even though Molina has been hot as of late.  You know it would drive the Cubs fans crazy.. He's our version of Barrett.

What can you do about Rolen and Jimmy though?  Rolen pretty much NEEDS to start at 3rd now that Speez is gone--his defense is why he's there.  And Jimmy seems to be making plays like his '04 self again, so I don't see who else you start in his place.  Maybe Ankiel in right and Juan in left?

by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 1:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if this team is going to suceed
It needs to get contributions from Juan. Your argument basically states that your not willing to give Juan the ABs to get back into the groove. When else will he get these ABs? What a better time than with a lefty on the mound??!

I'm not in favor of playing Ankiel against lefties yet. he needs to be in a position to succeed and get his confidence up. That is why he is batting second (in front of Pujols) despite his K rate.

I know you state you're not a Juan hater, but then you go off and say it would be "more fun" to watch him go 0-5. Ouch! I can say that while Juan could use an 0-5 game to get his swing back, Rick def. does not need that type of game to shake his confidence (no matter how much it gives you goose bumps to see our one and only 'natural' come to the plate)

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 1:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why does it need contribution from Juan?
Against RHP, he shouldn't see the field.
Against LHP, an argument could be made that Ankiel, Ludwick and Taguchi should all get to start before he does.

He should have been traded.  Had he been, Skip Shumaker would be up here..a better defender with more speed and from his minor league and major league stats, not completely inept at hitting LHP.

I feel bad for Juan, but when it comes to the pennant race, I'd prefer he spend his days eating seeds on the bench.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really, really don't get this
Did anyone notice when he was one of our most productive run producers in June and July? He was not only consistent, but also came through in key rbi situations....and your alternative? Skippy???? B/c he's  'better defender'...wow

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Juan vs Skip
Juan's peak trade value was right before the trade deadline.  He was hot and that contract should have been moved.

You want to bolster Juan's case because of his July, then let's compare:


Player  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB SO  GDP  BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  
Juan E  81  73  11  26  4  0  2  19   6 14   3  .356  .400  .493  .893
Skip S  51  46  11  20  5  1  2   8   3  5   2  .435  .460  .717 1.177

The team has shown over the last 2 weeks that they can score, they can win without Juan Encarnacion.  They have replacements for him, ones who aren't feuding with the manager over missing groundballs in the outfield and not running out groundballs hit.

Bottom line: Juan should have been traded.  I was against it at the time, thinking they needed a hot hitter like he was in order to compete.  I was wrong.  They can do it without him and his contract.

Tony's line about without Juan, we don't have a true cleanup hitter is hogwash.  Juan has 1 HR batting in the 4th spot.  Sure, he has a high average, but he has 10 XBH as the #4 hitter in 120 ABs.  Chris has 8 XBH in the cleanup spot in only 73 ABs.  He just doesn't give anyone else a legit chance to be the cleanup hitter, just like he doesn't give Brendan Ryan a legit chance to be the leadoff hitter.

Juan being on the team allows LaRussa to stay stubborn and doesn't force his hand to make changes.

Maybe I'm confused about what a cleanup hitters is supposed to do, but I'd prefer one that doesn't dink and dunk his way around the bases.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he also has a .332 BABIP
despite his LD% declining 5% between last year and this year.  IE his high batting average is not sustainable.

check out his recent historical LD% vs BABIP:

Year    team    LD%      BABIP        BABIP-LD%
2004    LAN    14.30%    0.2450        0.10
2004    FLA    18.90%    0.2850        0.10
2005    FLA    23.70%    0.3370        0.10
2006    STL    20.00%    0.3050        0.11
2007    STL    17.70%    0.3220        0.15

Which one of these is not like the other?

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 2:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

errata
  • .322 BABIP
  • LD% declined 5% between 2005 and this year, not last year and this year.
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could make an argument for Ludwick and Ankiel
but you'd lose that argement.  

So, on the other hand, is actually better across the board against lefties and has actually hit for more power (although not that much).

Ludwick absolutely struggles against lefties and Rick only has 1 hit (in only 7 ABs), a double, so it kinda inflates his slugging %.

But we are fogetting about Edmonds' and Duncan's struggles agains lefties.  Although, Duncan is still better than Ludwick against south paws.

If you wanted the absolute best outfield today agains Marshall, it would be Duncan in left, So in center, and Juan in right.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ludwick vs lefties...
in may:   .130/.130/.174  23 PA
in june:  .167/.167/.292  24 PA
in july:  .259/.375/.481  31 PA
in august .333/.474/.800  17 PA    

So you can say he was awful in May/June, but he adjusted and been quite good the last two months.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 2:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So we throw Rick's MiLB numbers out
because he has only 1 hit in 7 ABs in the majors?  

Juan has a high average against LHP, but he has 6 XBH against lefties in almost 100 ABs.  This is the guy we bat cleanup against LHP.  Conversly, Ryan Ludwick's low average against LHP has produced 11 XBHs in just 90 ABs.

You put Duncan in but leave Ankiel out?  Why?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have you watched Rick bat against lefties?
I assume you haven't, because they've been eating him alive.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha!
I love that the kid doesn't even get 10 ABs against LHP and he's apparently not good enough to hit against lefties, something he was able to do while in Memphis.

Thanks for clearing it up, Tony.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I assumed you wanted to win TODAY
Earlier, you didn't want Juan to get at bats to shake off the rust from his 9 day punishment, but now you WANT to give at bats to a guy who hasn't come close to hitting anything thrown by a left hander (sans 1 pitch) so he can get better.

Which is it?

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That doesn't make sense
I want to win today and having Juan in the lineup gives them really no better chance than having Ankiel in the lineup.

You used 7 at-bats to declare Ankiel a failure against LHP.  Juan is 2 for 7, with 2 singles against LHP in his most recent ABs.  He clearly deserves to start.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First hand experience
I saw him in his last game with Redbirds 2 weeks ago.  They had runners at 2nd & 3rd with 2 out.  The other team brought in a LEFT HANDED SPECIALIST just to get Ankiel out.  The first pitch he saw he crushed about 450 feet to right field for a 3 run shot to put the Redbirds ahead for good.

I don't want to hear about him not having good at bats against lefties, because I've seen otherwise first hand.

by cloistermaximus on Aug 18, 2007 3:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice.
He hit a AAA left handed "specialist".  He must be awesome since there's no room for such guys in the major leagues.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Against LHB
in both AAA and AA, it was only the 2nd XHB Will Startup had given to a left handed batter.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the past 2 years,
he's only given up 6.  Darn that 23 year old LOOGY not being able to crack the Padres bullpen!
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

most of us
have also been complaining about Rolen and Edmonds.  That's a silly argument to make.

as far as Juan's "clutchness" goes, he just seems "clutch" because he has had so many opportunities.  According to THT stats his clutch rating is (-2.9) -- his batting average goes down almost 20 points with RISP.  (Skip, whom you mocked, is a +2.5).  Combine that with his .759 overall OPS, his propensity to kill rallies by GIDP, and his awful defense, and there is no reason he should be a starter on this team except against very tough lefties and probably not even then, as Ludwick's numbers vs lefties continue to improve.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 2:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wasn't it Skip?
Who just a month and a half ago swung at every first pitch and popped it up the the ss?  

You guys are hilarious, there wasn't one person on here 2 months ago who thought that Skip belonged in the major leagues let alone the starting lineup.  Now, we have people clammoring for him to start because he got hot for a month.

And to make the agrument that LaRussa plays favorites with Juan in the 4 hole is funny.  Does LaRussa like Juan or not?  I'm starting to get confused.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your point?
You guys are hilarious, there wasn't one person on here 2 months ago who thought that Skip belonged in the major leagues let alone the starting lineup.

What has Juan done in his entire career to show that he deserves the number of ABs he gets, the position in the lineup he holds or the contract he is being paid?

No one thinks Skip should be the starting RF for the Cardinals, this year or next.  However, if put into the outfield platoon with Duncan, Ankiel, Ludwick, Taguchi, Edmonds he could be extremely valuable as a defensive replacement, a starter against LHP and a baserunner.

How many of those things is Juan, ever?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see anyone
making the "playing favorites" argument.  And 2 months ago, I didn't think skip should be a starter. He took bad at bats, looked decent but not exceptional in the outfield, and wasn't anything special.  If anything I was frustrated to see a roster spot and valuable at bats being wasted on a guy I thought was awful.  It looked like TLR was playing favorites with Skip, actually.  But then at some point Skip made an adjustment, started taking better at bats (and had better luck during the bad at bats) and now appears to be a legitimate ballplayer.  

We are allowed to change how we expect a player to perform based off of his actual performance, aren't we?  

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't disagree that Skip has produced
better lately.  And I've always like the guy (if for no other reason than he "looks" like a ball player).

And I appoligize about the "Juan being a TLR fave" since it wasn't you who made the comment.  It was Hardcore who said, "Juan being on the team allows LaRussa to stay stubborn and doesn't force his hand to make changes."

But since you guys are on the same side of this argument/discussion, I lumped you together.  As for HL's quote above, I guess you can interpret that a couple of ways, but I see it as TLR being stubborn = favortism.

Anyway, back to Skip.  He hasn't really improved his at bats that much.  He's just getting luckier.  That hr he hit against ATL was atrocious.  He hit it off the ground, pracitally between his feet.

Since that at bat, he's gone 3 for 13 with 1 double (mostly pinch hitting).  Once again, I like Skip, but he's been streaky and unreliable.

And, finally, lets all be realistic here.  Juan isn't going anywhere.  People can yell and scream all they want, but he's staying put.  Save for a trade, but that seems unlikely.  

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Has nothing to do with favoritism other than
his being a veteran.

Skip doesn't have to replace Juan, other than as a roster spot.  The removal of Juan allows for what we have seen over the last 2 weeks: better lineups created by Tony.

As for Juan being traded, he will be.  It just won't be until the offseason.  Unlike Rolen and Edmonds, who have had scruffs with Tony, Juan doesn't have a) the support of the fanbase or b) the contract prohibiting a trade.  

Someone out there will be looking for a lackluster, yet steady RF bat for a moderate contract.  Atleast, we can only hope.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Empty promises
I thought you were off to check tonights boxscores.

Anyway, so now LaRussa is favoring Juan because he's a vet?  Well, either way, he's still apparantly favoring him.

Because LaRussa only plays vets.  Like Molina, Duncan, Wainwright and ANKIEL.  Yup.  I'm sure Mike Matheney and Ozzie Smith would agree 100% with you.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 3:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Game hasn't started
still in rain delay, as per the Tigers/Yankees broadcast.

Have you run out of straw yet?  These arguments are getting thinner and thinner.

It's pretty clear that no amount of statistics or comparisions will make you believe anything other than that Juan somehow deserves to be in RF today.

Good luck with that.  I'm sure he'll have a fantastic day of doing nothing.  Maybe he'll get an RBI single and really show us!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right
my point gets thinner since I referenced 6 instances (4 of which are on this year's team) that prove your little theory about TLR favoring Juan on the sole basis that he's a vet to be rubbish.

And I didn't realize you storming off was dependant upon the actual start of the game since you made the proclimation an hour before the game.

As far as statistics?  Sure I pay attention to them, but I don't feel they're the end all be all like this is some sort of video game.  I look with my eyes as well.  I see things like when Ankiel swings at every slider a foot outside thrown by a lefty, and then strikes out looking on the next pitch on a strike on the inner half of the plate.

Rick's gonna be a fine ballplayer.  Hell, he'd be fortunate to put up Juan's career numbers.  But, he needs work on hitting and, more importantly, identifying pitches thrown by major league lefties.  

And your right, Startup's a good pitcher.  But he's a long way from Billy Wagner.  He's still in AAA facing AAA hitters....big difference.

As for today, I hope I am right and Juan's the better play today.  Although, unlike you, I'm not going to make predictions on a cold, rainy day in Chicago a day after Juan played for the first time in a week and a half.

Also, I'm not going to throw a fit and refuse to watch a game because I don't like a right fielder.  So, go on with your day once the game starts and we'll be watching to see if you stay away from the board.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RE:
my point gets thinner since I referenced 6 instances (4 of which are on this year's team) that prove your little theory about TLR favoring Juan on the sole basis that he's a vet to be rubbish.
Like Molina - He's been the starter for 2 years now
Duncan - Doesn't get to play against LHP and was sent back to Memphis last year despite showing power
Wainwright - spent last year in the bullpen while Sidney Ponson and Jason Marquis started games.  Spent most of the year in the 7th inning until Izzy finally cried "Uncle" and forced Tony's hand
ANKIEL - It's August.  It's not like he SUDDENLY started hitting HRs.  He and Ludwick were going toe-to-toe, yet Ludwick has been here for 3 months.

And I didn't realize you storming off was dependant upon the actual start of the game since you made the proclimation an hour before the game.
No one is 'storming off'.  I just refuse to follow today's game with Juan in the lineup again, today.  I said this a 10 am today and I'm sticking to it.

As far as statistics?  Sure I pay attention to them, but I don't feel they're the end all be all like this is some sort of video game.  I look with my eyes as well.  I see things like when Ankiel swings at every slider a foot outside thrown by a lefty, and then strikes out looking on the next pitch on a strike on the inner half of the plate.
Every slider?  In SEVEN AT BATS. How can you possibly say that with such a small sample size?  You 'see' Juan because he gets to play. And then he puts up the 'statistics' that show he doesn't really need to be in there.

As for today, I hope I am right and Juan's the better play today.  Although, unlike you, I'm not going to make predictions on a cold, rainy day in Chicago a day after Juan played for the first time in a week and a half.
No one is basing Juan not playing on just yesterday.  

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Italics are fun
Never thought of using them...

Like Molina - He's been the starter for 2 years now

Yes.  But he was cristened the starting catcher the year before, even while Matheney (a gold glove vet) was on the team.  Plus, Tony said over and over during Molina's rookie year, that he didn't care if Molina batted .000, his defense made up for it.

Duncan - Doesn't get to play against LHP and was sent back to Memphis last year despite showing power

But got every opportunity to play with hand grenades in the playoffs.

Wainwright

But was on the roster all season and worked his way into an important role (but that's the old school approach, so it probably doesn't count)

ANKIEL

Did you forget that Juan (the vet) was benched immediately in favor of Rick?

No one is 'storming off'.  I just refuse to follow today's game with Juan in the lineup again, today.  I said this a 10 am today and I'm sticking to it.

Yes you are.  What's next?  Are you going to hold your breath and refuse to eat your dinner?

Every slider?  In SEVEN AT BATS. How can you possibly say that with such a small sample size?

Um, I can say it because I've seen it.  

No one is basing Juan not playing on just yesterday.

Really?

Cloistermaximus did when he said "If Ankiel goes 0-5 on the day, it will at least be more fun to watch than Juan going 0-5."

And again with "I just think that Ankiel has a better chance of getting some hits because he HASN"T been sitting on the bench for a week + and needs time to warm up."

I'll grant you that YOU did not make the comments.  But, it's within the confines of the the argument/discussion so its out there.  But, I know you wouldn't make those statements because you like CurtFlood.  It doesn't matter what Juan does, you hate him.

Anyway, Game On!!!

No more comments from you!

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know what a "clutch rating is"
But I do know that if you project his season totals this year over the course of 162 games (he's played 70), he would have 100 Rbis. Also, he has more "opportunities" because he bats in an rbi position in the lineup....because he's a good producer.

Call me "old fashioned", but to me, 100 RBIs is a mark of a pretty good player in terms of driving runs in. To think that Skip Schumacher could equal that level of production is just ludicrous.  

And btw, his average is up 10 points (.295) with runners on and two out.  

Regardless of all of these stats and numbers, I can count on two hands a number of GAME-CHANGING hits he has had this season. And THT stats can't measure that.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you should learn
what it is.  You might be able to make a better argument.  I'll make it easy for you.

Anyway if you put a better hitter in the same position, he's going to have at least as many RBI's, so RBI's is a silly way to look at a players performance.  Had Ludwick or Skip had the opportunities that Juan has had, our team's record would be at least as good and probably 1-2 games better.  I'll let you google WARP3 to figure out why on your own.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, dude
I guess the numbers don't lie. A Ludwick-Skip platoon IS clearly better than Juan Encarnacion. How could I have not realized this??? Thank you for crunching the numbers and enlightening me.  

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 3:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nah
Skip isn't as good as Ludwick against righties.  Encarnacion isn't much better against lefties, either.  There's no reason for a platoon.  

As far as the numbers go, they just happen to help to quantify what I see when I watch the guy play.  It doesn't always work that way; there have been many times a guy is much better or much worse than I think he is from watching- like Juan last year (see my posts from the off-season about him, in which I played the same role you are playing now) or Aaron Miles, whom I over-appreciated last year.

Look, if it helps your "old school" way of thinking, Ludwick was leading the PCL in RBI's when we brought him up in May. When he was coming up as a prospect in the Indians organization at the same time as Travis Hafner, he was rated more highly by scouts who watched them play side by side.  His career was derailed by being brought up to the major leagues too soon and then by a series of freak injuries (HPB led to broken wrist, fat first baseman falling on him, breaking his leg, etc). He's not just some random AAAA player who caught lightning in a bottle when we decided to give him 200 AB's.  

Anyway now that I've thoroughly jinxed him, I guess we can watch play.  (If it stops raining...) Sorry, Ryan.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ahh, reason
Thank you for it.

Juan isn't a bad player, just not worth his contract to us.

by DriverZn on Aug 18, 2007 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lineup
  1. David Eckstein, SS
  2. So Taguchi, CF
  3. Albert Pujols, 1B
  4. Juan Encarnacion, RF
  5. Scott Rolen, 3B
  6. Ryan Ludwick, LF
  7. Yadier Molina, C
  8. Anthony Reyes, RHP
  9. Brendan Ryan, 2B

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ugh
I'm tuning out.  I'll check the boxscore tonight.

Good luck Cards!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You show 'em Lenny!
that'll teach me to say bad things about Juan Encarnacion!
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude, what is your deal?
I'm excited about watching this game, and I'm sure most are. If you're just gonna down this team and tune out because the freaking LINEUP isn't to your liking, just keep your opinions to yourself.

by Jhusk on Aug 18, 2007 4:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can't watch Juan hit cleanup anymore
he face a LHP yesterday and in 3 at-bats, saw a grand total of 6 pitches!  Six of them.  

I'm excited this team has gotten back into contention.  I'm excited they've let younger guys (Ankiel, Ryan, Ludwick, Reyes) prove themselves and give this team a spark.  I want the Cardinals to win.

I just can't stand to see Juan go another 0 for 4 hitting in the 2nd more important spot in the lineup.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's been off for a week
Gotta give him some time to get his timing back down. Granted, his lack of patience at the plate drives me nuts too, but still. I think he fares better today, only to give way to Ank to PH in the 8th.

by Jhusk on Aug 18, 2007 4:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in defense of hardcore (and some others)
what is missing in the UNDERSTANDING of the Juan defenders (( who always, and only, bring up "numbers" )) towards we Juan ranters and venters... is the emotional part.

Call me deranged, or less of a fan all you want, but I will tell you this:  if the Cards win a close and exciting game, by 5-4 say, and Encarnacion had a lot to do with it, maybe three RBIs and a good catch or two in the outfield... MY joy in that victory is significantly diminished from what it would otherwise be.

It is visceral, emotional, and subjective, yes; but I for one can't help it.  My heart has long ago decided that I can't stand even seeing him wear the sacred birds on the bat.

I have to go back to Gregg Jefferies to find a 'Cardinal' I disliked more -- and HE hit .335 over the two years I suffered him wearing the uniform.

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm gonna take a stab and say
that you didn't help hardcore or sleepy's agrument by solely basing your points on hatred.

You do realize that cardfaninmass and I are not the "numbers" guys, right?  We're not the ones using sabermetrics.  Not that they're wrong to use those, there's a ton of useful information in there, but you might want to figure out who you're "defending".

And second.  The birds on the bat logo is not "sacred".  Its a logo.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you're not a SABR guy
why would you visit a SABR heavy site like VEB?

If you go more off of anecdotal information, how can that possibly help Juan Encarnacion?  He is the king of 'bad images'.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you miss the part about
how there's lots of useful information in sabermetrics?

And did you not realize that there are interviews and other discussions on here as well?  

If I enjoy the site, and get a DIFFERENT perspectvie than my own, what's it to ya?

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sigh
I understand what YOU are saying; again you don't understand what I am saying.
What I was trying to defend (and if I misread and attached it to hardcore, then give me an E-8) was a feeling a Cardinal fan might have such that he would ignore a game he would otherwise be dying to pay attention to because of a fly in the ointment HE (personally, viscerally, subjectively) perceived.

I also think it is an amazing leap to label what I posted as "hatred," but if that is your analysis, so be it.
And the lawyeristic trick of saying the 'birds on the bat' is just a logo.  Carumba!  You know very well what I meant by that phrase and how I was using it.

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it's not hatred
that would cause you such displeasure in seeing him do well, then what is it?

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

new here and love it
and I didn't think my first post would be in the middle of this, but there are those of us who do think the BOB is scared. Ok, now carry on.

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 4:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the BOB ain't scared
of anyone!!!  Booo!

welcome to VEB ;)

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 4:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

great
my first post and I screw it up. I will blame it on my keyboard.

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off topic
but is anybody ticked that MLB didn't put Edmonds' game 7 NLCS catch in the top defensive plays category.

http://www.actober.com/Moments.aspx

New York-associated teams make up 6 of the 10 available videos for defensive plays.  Edmonds tops most if not all of these.  I have it on DVD and could rip it but would like their download instead.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting
that the outcome of the game doesn't factor into whether or not a play is featured.  Jimmy's 2004 NLCS game 7 catch contributed (directly, I'd say) to a Cardinals victory, yet is not featured.  Endy Chavez's catch of Scotty's home run, while amazing, took place in a game the Mets ultimately lost, but is one of the top defensive plays.  Go figure.  

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 18, 2007 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rain delay
looks like it could be a while before we start this one!

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just ran out to get beer
When i got back they were showing Yankees Tigers pregame.  For a second I thought that Fox had actually put U City out of the Cards telecast.
Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Aug 18, 2007 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't put it past them
to do such a thing. After all, it IS the yankees.

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 4:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the word
on Chi-town weather? When's this thing gonna start?

by Jhusk on Aug 18, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I live in Chicago
and it's just been consistently light raining. There's really been no storms or anything, but the rain isn't stopping.

I dunno, we used to play little league games in this weather.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 18, 2007 4:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

playing in the rain
was always a lot of fun... unless it was April or May and also COLD.

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rain delay still in effect
first pitch moved back to 4:00 CDT (best case) - for those of you understandably not watching FOX
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Aug 18, 2007 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll second that
living in the western suburbs and the two "storms" were almost nothing.  

Looks much worse than it is.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

unless that was a 'still' picture
Fox just showed... the outfield bleachers in Wrigley was packed.  If it is raining why are so many people out there?

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

concession stands are open
beer is being served.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Aug 18, 2007 4:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure it has something to do with some
Old Style commercial.

Something about peeing in a fountain cause you are a true Chicagoian.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't forget
that the bleachers are general admission at wrigley.

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 4:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They are Cubs fans...
so it's not clear if they have the sense to come in out of the rain. Or if they are sober enough to.

by DiscoJer on Aug 18, 2007 4:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They're idiots.
Plus, once you're out there, there's really no where else to go for that many people.  Granted, they could have stayed over at Murphy's or The Sports Corner or Cubby Bear and stayed dry, but that would be a reasonable conclusion to be made by trash throwing idiots.

Btw, did anyone here hear about the Mets fan who got thrown out of the stadium a couple of weeks ago?  He was sitting in the bleachers and caugt a Cub homerun.  Keeping with tradition.....he threw it back.

Stadium security threw him out!!

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did hear about that...
....supposedly he was using a lot of profanity directed towards cubs fans and players (as opposed to cub fans who do the same directed towards the opposition), but cub fans actually booed security for taking him out and said he was doing nothing wrong.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
he apparantly went over to the Sports Corner after getting kicked out and had drinks bought for him all night.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 5:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

an exercise in meanness, maybe...
but the rain delay gets me waxing about an All-Venom team.
The no-brainers, for me, would be Bonds in LF, Clemens pitching, and Juan E in RF.
Then Barrett catching, possibly Aramis R at 3b.
After that I have to start thinking.

by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 4:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

where would you put
Alex Cintron?
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Aug 18, 2007 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd have
Jacque Jones (always kills us) and Gary Sheffield & Shawn Estes (can't stand them).

stlfan

by stlfan on Aug 18, 2007 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from the era of your name....
...I'd pick Rose 2B and Bench C. I still think the greatest play in world series history was when Bench struck out against Oakland during an "intentional" walk.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, this could be an ugly game...
Reyes' stats vs. the Cubs' lineup:

Theriot 0-3, 2k
Jones 1-6
Lee 2-6, 1 2b, 1r, 1bb, 1k
Ramirez 1-6, 1hr, 2rbi, 3bb, 1k
Ward 0 pa
DeRosa 2-3, 2 2b, 1bb, 1k
Murton 2-6, 1hr, 1rbi, 1bb
Kendall 1-3, 1r, 1rbi
Marshall 0 pa

Total: 9-33 (.273), 3 2b, 2hr, 6bb, 5k

The Cards vs. Marshall:

Eck 2-5
Gooch 3-5, 1 2b, 1rbi
Albert 1-4, 1bb, 1k
Enc 0-5, 1k
Rolen 3-4, 1hr, 2rbi, 1bb
Ludwick 0 pa
Yadi 1-5
Reyes 0 pa
Ryan 0 pa

Total: 9-28 (.321), 1 2b, 1 hr, 2bb, 2k

BTW, Edmonds is 1-2 against him.

All this happening in crappy conditions...

stlfan

by stlfan on Aug 18, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a player's statistics
against a single pitcher have no predictive value.  
Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 18, 2007 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tell that to Odalis Perez...
against Albert....   :-)

Or for that matter, Chris Capuano vs. Albert.

I'd predict this. Both those pitchers know he's got an OPS of about 9.367 against them, and it sure as heaven affects how they pitch.

by kwhiteside on Aug 19, 2007 1:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That Clemens double play was nice
cuts off the throw down to 2nd on a strike 'em out, throw 'em out and then tags Inge out caught in a rundown between 3rd and home.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 4:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then patted Inge on the back....
...Inge should have knocked him into the middle of next week.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 4:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would
pay to have seen that!  LOL!

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 18, 2007 4:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he patted him on the back..
..because he ran him over.  It was a sportsmanship thing.  Inge, at 5'11", 185 pounds, would be better off not fighting Roger Clemens.  

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 7:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gibson
and Mccarver once turned a play like that against hall of famer Frank Robinson I believe.

by Hammondsbird on Aug 18, 2007 4:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Watch the game!
http://channelsurfing.net/

Click the "mlb gamemix" at the bottom and you get a feed featuring 16 separate screens...one of them is the cards-cubs game....get those squinting eyes ready...

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 4:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Enc
Way to kill that rally

by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Taking Nerdy Up a Notch
Made this real quick to give myself something to laugh about every time Juan screws the pooch.

by liam on Aug 18, 2007 5:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speechless
now that moves this place up a bit on my bookmarks page

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's amazing
for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee, Juan

by hannah_in_va on Aug 18, 2007 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

over/under
on how many times will we see this the rest of the season?

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 5:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That can be figured by...
determining how many of our remaining games Juanie will play.

by mynameistyler on Aug 18, 2007 8:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

enc sees two pitches
then makes 2 outs.  Awesome.
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for people who can watch the game
how is Reyes's velocity?  Mike Shannon seems impressed.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Aug 18, 2007 5:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's hit 93 a couple of times
but he has also laid a couple of 90 mphers right down central.

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 5:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh no
If anyone gets bored, and happens to be from Fairbury Nebraska, check this out...
www.royalsreview.com

by royalsreview on Aug 18, 2007 5:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reyes
Nice job ending that inning with the K. High heat up in the zone

by 10worldchamps on Aug 18, 2007 5:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And now he is probably being told how bad that
pitch was.

If our offsense can get it together I'll take my chances with Reyes.

by DriverZn on Aug 18, 2007 5:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Runners LOB...
...will that be the downfall of the Cards today or will we get some RISP hits?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

homework
it seems Girardi at least does his, unlike some other analysts I don't have to name

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed
At least he has something of consequence to say.

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 18, 2007 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

during the Yanks/Tigers game...
Tim McCarver, on the Yankees' rough start to the season: "they were very un-Yankee like...heck, they were un-Major League-team-like."  So yeah, I don't mind Girardi.

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 5:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gibson
i might have missed his name , but McCarver didnt seem to mention Gibson in the list of pitchers who could get a strikeout when they needed one. You would think having caught him, Tim might have thought of Bob first.

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rick woulda
Been under it and used 2 hands.

by TICY on Aug 18, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well in Juan's defense
anecdotally he seems to often come back and hit well after making an error, and this one didn't actually cost us anything other than adding one pitch to Reyes' pitch count...
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why is Juan still around?
I'm glad Tony has already dubbed Ankiel a platooner.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 5:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Way to work the count guys...
...I expect someday an opposing pitcher will throw a 40 pitch complete game against the Cards.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This game...
is starting to seem hopeless, and it's only the third inning.  At least Reyes is doing ok.

Work the count dammit!

by hannah_in_va on Aug 18, 2007 5:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

psoitive thinking
at least these aren't the first half birds anymore, I have faith....so far

by mattyfrommo on Aug 18, 2007 5:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ryan
I like Ryan's range on that one, even though he bobbled it.  Miles probably doesn't get a glove on that one.

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 5:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow
Why did I say "on that one" twice?  My poor syntax jinxed us, as Lee gets an RBI single.  

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 5:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not promising
Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Aug 18, 2007 5:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cue the guy
who says "game over.  season over." anytime the Cards trail by more than 2 runs.

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 5:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can't blame Juan for that one
Another Reyes 5-run inning.

For some reason, something gets into that guy's head and he strings together the screw ups.

I thought he was getting better too.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 5:47 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure
that whatever that pitch to Ward just was, 2 seam, 4 seam, underhanded euphus, Anthony will be told it was not a very good one.
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 5:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fastball?
Is it just me or did he not throw a fastball for a strike the whole inning?

by jim of beam on Aug 18, 2007 5:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

marshall's august ERA
says we should get those back and more. Let's go, men!

and juan obliges before i can post!

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 5:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Way to go Juan
Someone tell the FOX camerman to reduce aperture.

by liam on Aug 18, 2007 5:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

woo!
Juan just made a lot of people here squirm.

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 5:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One AB too
late.

I'd call that a rally killer but I remember too many multiple home run comebacks in this park.  

Let's hope the rain holds off.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 5:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice Juan...............
Now if we could only convince the rest of the guys that it's Sunday.

by fuegophil on Aug 18, 2007 5:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well now we have to hope
we don't get swept. Today was the day the Cards needed to make the Series even, it's going to be a tough one tomorrow night against Big Z with the Cardinals offense going back into hibernation.

It's looking like all we did this week is was just helping the Cubs get in 1st, by sweeping the Brewers and then letting them run over us. UUGh.

by KYCards on Aug 18, 2007 5:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this game's not over,
tomorrow's game's not over, the season isn't over. maybe you'll be right and we lose 3 of 4 or get swept, and this series v. the cubs will be the difference between us or the cubs taking the division. but take heart! we've been left for dead at least a dozen times this season, and we are still in this thing into mid-august.

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone know if MLB.TV
will let us watch the fox feed after 6 CT?

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 5:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you're asking
if the game feed will click on...the answer is no.

Fox has exclusive rights to the entire game and any game that STARTS before 7 eastern time.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...
my rule is there's hope when you're behind by fewer runs than outs left.  Hope springs eternal?

by hannah_in_va on Aug 18, 2007 6:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The comeback
Will be all the more demoralizing!

Nice swing, there, kid!

by liam on Aug 18, 2007 6:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With this feller struggling to find the zone
like this guy is against Reyes, I sure would like to see our guys look at a few pitches........Impatience seems quite unbecoming today.

by fuegophil on Aug 18, 2007 6:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yikes
rains coming down...they could call it an 'official game' at this point...we already got screwed in new york by a game being cut short.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am sure glad we keep throwing low strikes
Thats working out great.  I would hate to make them think about the other half of the strike zone.

by DriverZn on Aug 18, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so tired of watching the cards lose to the cubs
Anyone know what LaRussa's W-L record vs the cubs is compared to Herzog?

If you can tell me where I could go to find out for myself, I don't mind doing the research.

by hex706f726368 on Aug 18, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yesterday
they had larussa's record v the cubs at 95-80 (or something like that, I'm pretty sure he was 15 over)

by jeff abs on Aug 18, 2007 6:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cardsfaninmass
who put that "channelsurfing" link here...thank you.
"Don't try to figure this game out"--S. Rolen

by glennrwordman on Aug 18, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hereby
pass along the appropriate share of credit to Mr. H.C. Legend.
"Don't try to figure this game out"--S. Rolen

by glennrwordman on Aug 18, 2007 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow
Pulling Marshall with 70 pitches.  

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Should we be able to tag Marmol with a few?
Or would it have been better for us if Marshall stayed in a bit longer?

by fuegophil on Aug 18, 2007 6:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marmol...
...is a big reason for the surge of the flubs, I'd rather Marshall stay in the game.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 6:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not even close
Marmol has STUFF.  But as we see with Juan's AB, he's had a history of control issus that show up from time to time.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the rest does,
and marmol can't take the last 4 innings.

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marmol or bust
he's close to being overused by lou.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 6:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its not even close
His arm slot has been falling the past couple of weeks which has made his slider flatten out.  Typically of a tired pitcher.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really since they
benched Eyre and banished Ohman.

Plus, Lou finally figured out that Marmol can't start but when he can go to 2 pitches he's really tough to hit...that is if he can find the k-zone.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Herzog v. Larussa
I am so sick of people remembering the Herzog era as being better then it actually was.

Herzog with St. Louis - .530 winning percentage
LaRussa with St. Louis - .545 winning percentage

I will do some more research on cubs v. cards.

by mcurryatl on Aug 18, 2007 6:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rolen the pop-up machine
has returned...according to Shannon he swung at ball 4 twice.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

safe

by Hammondsbird on Aug 18, 2007 6:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duncan swung at a ball that hit him in the leg
the ball went into or near the cards dugout.

However, you cannot advance to first on a dropped thrid strike that hits you.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speechless
They just made two outs on wild pitches.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently they're saying
Duncnan fouled the pitch and it hit him out of the batters box....

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They're wrong
He half swung and missed it by 2 feet.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought
he swung and missed at a pitch that hit him. strike three, and he can't take first since it hit him. but i'm not sure.

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What the Hell
Happened?
"Don't try to figure this game out"--S. Rolen

by glennrwordman on Aug 18, 2007 6:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

unless ludwick was hurt
pinch hitting for him with Duncan really, really makes me mad.
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 6:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but that catch
was so much more exciting as executed by duncan! ;)

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

absolutely robbed
you'd think being tagged on the butt on a head first slide is enough of a hint that the player got to the plate far before being tagged.
On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The fix is in
I wish our team had a larger media market.

by enoscountry on Aug 18, 2007 6:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that was
a frustrating inning, to say the least

by Hammondsbird on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That sounded like one of the more bizarre
couple of plays I've heard in a long time. And I haven't heard Shannon that agitated in a long time either.

Also, I'm still not sure what the hell happened.

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe
this is what it takes to fire us up again? please?

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

send duncan down to AAA
he is flat out awful right now
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i have no idea what he was swinging at
the pitch was a slider that NEVER was in the strike zone and then hit him in the knee.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's terrible...
and playing like he was back in the minor leagues when he really wasn't any good.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lboros thought
he would never amount to much as of about a year ago...maybe he was right all along.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lets wait until
his career OPS falls below .900 to pronounce him dead, k?
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 6:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess we just got lucky
last October, because when it comes to big series it seems like the umps stick it to the Cards so many times.

by KYCards on Aug 18, 2007 6:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right
there's a conspiracy.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

on a happier note
Reyes has quietly not sucked since giving up the bomb to Ward.  

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 6:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

too bad he already sucked enough
to lose the game for us.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah,
but he gave up the bomb, which happened to be Ward's first hr of the season.  So, you know it was a special pitch.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate...
this umpiring crew.  Every single time we run into a crew with Angel Hernandez, there's call after call after call that are just god awful.  He's worthless and this crew is worthless.  How do they still have a job with the MLB?  I've seen better officiating at the Little League World Series from Volunteers than these blind morons have been able to muster.

by mynameistyler on Aug 18, 2007 6:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speaking of which...
...the Lubbock, Tx pitcher has struck out the first six Minnesotians to start the game.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2007 6:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

still so upset....
...runners on first and second, nobody out, heart of the order, and it's still 5-2...

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 18, 2007 6:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We've had some seriously bad mojo with Cubs
the past three or four years. Dusty snookered Tony real good. Now Lou is doing it.

by Urban Pawnee on Aug 18, 2007 6:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least at Wrigely
it's like the house of phantoms when we play there.

Plus the Cubs seem to play their best games of the season against us at Wrigley.  Got to give them that though, they step it up against us.

by KYCards on Aug 18, 2007 6:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it just seems like in
every game against the cubs, something bush league happens.  It's like watching a completely different kind of baseball.  I'm always left shaking my head afterwards.
"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 18, 2007 6:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whatever Jim
Still a real good move to get Marmol out of there and now, So can play left and put the dancing bear back in the dugout.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 6:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm so sick of this
This team just has not done anything with a runner on third and 1 out.  They just can't put the ball in play.

by hannah_in_va on Aug 18, 2007 6:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ah, the beauty
that is jason kendall's D.

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 6:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Solo home runs and stranded runners
this is feeling more and more like the Washington series a couple of weeks ago.

by KYCards on Aug 18, 2007 6:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rooney and the understatement of the year?
"Encarnacion gives up the right field line."

by fuegophil on Aug 18, 2007 6:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yadier
He could have thrown that underhanded, and the result would have been the same.

by jdub176 on Aug 18, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ohhhhhhhh
yadi, yadi, yadi!  better than 50% this year!

by sdesserman on Aug 18, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gone
another solo!!

Two more.

by Big Red on Aug 18, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

going to be bitter
it should be 4-5
On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 18, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let me guess
juan's fault that was a solo homer too? ;)

by acham8206 on Aug 18, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs