Game 119 Open Thread: August 17, 2007
by lboros on Aug 17, 2007 8:32 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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10-9, 5.08 |
6-7, 3.85 |
good stuff from scott rolen in bernie's column today. he nakedly admits that the cards' morale stunk after the 1-5 trip to pittsburgh and washington, and that the people who wrote the team off at that point had every reason to do so. and then he adds:
Don't try to figure this game out.
and where the cubs are concerned? they gave up trying to figure the game out decades ago. their 2007 campaign has been at least as illogical as the cardinals' --- indeed, at a superficial level the two teams' seasons have a lot in common. chicago reached the same low point as st louis --- 9 games under --- and were left for dead by many of their fans. then they made a few lineup changes --- dumped some unproductive veterans (mike barrett and jacque jones), called up the centerfield phenom from triple A (felix pie), and started giving lots of at-bats to no-great-shakes prospects like mike fontenot and ryan theriot and angel pagan. above all, they shoved aside the washed-up veteran relievers who were costing them games --- guys like eyre and ohman --- and assigned their roles to youngsters like carlos marmol. they went with the kids, is the point i'm trying to make --- and, like the cardinals, they started getting better results.
the major difference here --- and it pretty much wrecks the whole analogy --- is that the cubs were never as bad as their record suggested. even when they were 9 games under they had scored more runs than they'd allowed; they simply had lost a lot of close games due to inept bullpenning. all the stat geeks predicted the cubs would bounce back from the slow start and get themselves into the race (something nobody predicted for the cardinals), and they were right. chicago's offense, while never great, has been solidly average all year, and its rotation has been healthy and consistent. after the zambrano-barrett dugout bout on june 1 and piniella's subsequent tantrum, the cubs played outstanding baseball for two months --- a 35-18 record (.660) between june 3 and august 1. the last win of that stretch pulled the cubs into a tie for first place --- whereupon they proceeded to go 4-10 and get outscored 69-87, bringing us right up to the present. their pitching staff, among the top 3 in the league all season, has hit its raggedest patch in the last two weeks, posting a 6.09 era. while the cardinal rotation has been reeling off all those quality starts --- 9 in a row and counting --- the cubs have received just 4 q.s. all month (two from lilly, one from hill, one from marquis). in two starts since leaving his august 3 start vs the mets with heat cramps, zambrano has been pummeled for 21 hits and 13 runs in 12+ innings. sean marshall, the cubs' scheduled starting pitcher tomorrow, has a 10.38 era in 3 august starts.
like rolen says, don't try to figure this game out.
the cubs will throw three left-handed pitchers at st louis this weekend, including two (hill and marshall) the cardinals have not faced this year. here's how the cardinal outfielders perform vs left-handers:
2007
| ab | avg | obp | slg | ops | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| taguchi | 120 | .325 | .382 | .392 | .773 |
| encarnacion | 92 | .304 | .343 | .391 | .735 |
| ludwick | 86 | .221 | .295 | .419 | .713 |
| duncan | 71 | .225 | .309 | .338 | .647 |
| edmonds | 92 | .196 | .286 | .268 | .554 |
in the big leagues, ankiel has 2 hits and 3 strikeouts in 7 at-bats vs left-handers. in the minors, his line vs them this year was .278 / .313 / .602.
CAREER
| ab | avg | obp | slg | ops | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| edmonds | 1670 | .256 | .337 | .439 | .776 |
| encarnacion | 1118 | .275 | .326 | .430 | .756 |
| taguchi | 564 | .289 | .338 | .399 | .737 |
| ludwick | 220 | .209 | .278 | .441 | .719 |
| duncan | 120 | .217 | .286 | .375 | .661 |
encarnacion says he is good to go; he's ready to play. how does it make sense to keep him on the bench? which three outfielders ought to be starting ahead of him? there's no case at all for edmonds, who simply can't hit lefties anymore --- his cumulative line vs them over the last two seasons is .171 / .231 / .276. nor can you make a good case for duncan, who a) has never established that he can hit left-handers consistently, and b) is having a tough 2d half (.232 / .333 / .439 since the all-star break). if encarnacion sits again, that leaves an outfield of ludwick / taguchi / ankiel . . . . i realize that encarnacion is no hall-of-famer, but he's good enough to crack that outfield. he's one of the best three. la russa has made his point --- if encarnacion does get in there, he's going to play hard. he knows his job is on the line.
be interesting to see how tony plays it.
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Comments
OFers
Speaking of whom, any word on Jimmy's nerve/back condition today?
Ludwick, Juan, Slick Rick
Unfortunately, Guch will be in center and Rick will be in right. You can put it in the bank.
Leach on O,YNaG
by Just Rope Ball on Aug 17, 2007 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure...
I hope we smash the two youngsters, because Vs the Cubs for sure our starters will have much more trouble than Vs Padres/Dodgers/Brewers.
GO CARDS!!!
Hill
by paCardsFan on Aug 17, 2007 9:05 AM EDT reply actions
lefties .193 righties .247
L .219
R .239
There's no doubt in my mind that Encarnacion
How can you be so sure - did you see Tony's
"I really liked the way he swung (Wednesday) in batting practice, but I know his comment is that he's still limited," he said. "When you've got healthy guys available ... that's what the bus ride's for."
What the hell - "his comment is that he's still limited" - what??! He says he's OK, ready to go!? Jimmy has made comments that he's 'limited' too; claiming he felt dead
Dead, I tell you! Juan's comments have never approximated that level...
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone knows this isn't a matter of health
But you're assuming
I think there is so much going on that we don't know about, that anything can happen.
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Juan is 3-6 vs. Hill lifetime
In addition...
Juan has simply GOT to start today against the lefty.
Mind games
by googs77 on Aug 17, 2007 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
A few thoughts
Not so sure what to think about the Cards play over the past two weeks. I have/ had left them for dead and now they are at least making the race close again. With this in mind, they face off against the Cubs in a huge series. Given that I think the Cubs are the better team on paper (better than either the Cards or the Brewers), I think a series split would be a fine outcome. Sure 3 out of 4 would be better ( and a sign that the Cards might sustain their current level of play), but a split would be fine with me too.
I swear to God if he gives up a triple
telling my cubs friends the same thing.
Good
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
funny
Record vs. LH starters is 21-20
Its too bad we don't have Mulder healthy and pitching well, since the Cubs are 11-19 vs. LH starters and 50-40 vs. RH starters.
Nice Quote
I'm glad I'm going to the beach on Saturday. Waiting around for Fox to break into the Yankees-Tigers game with a Cards-Cubs update would drive me crazy.
by nybirdgirl on Aug 17, 2007 10:52 AM EDT reply actions
Gotta agree
Baseball is somewhat predictable over the long haul (season-to-season), but it's played in Extremely Small Sample Sizes... one pitch at a time!
I think Tony will make out his lineup card based on what Edmonds tells TLR about his back, and based on what "vibes" Tony gets from Juancion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lud, Ankiel, and Encarnacion from LF to RF today.
Go get 'em, (Gashouse) Gang! [big grin]
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 17, 2007 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Jacque Jones?
They dumped him to Florida
Without him, they'd probably be 5 games out right now.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
they also stopped playing him
I noticed that too.
I always felt good...
Now Jones is the only one left of that core, and my smiles have greatly waned. About the only thing I have left is Aramis' defense.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey gang
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/16/AR2007081601687.html
You may need a free subscription. I can post the text of the article if people are interested and that's within the rules and regulations here.
On another note: I signed up a few days ago to respond to someone's post talking about being at a game in Pittsburgh and watching the Cardinals on the scoreboard... I was at a Blues playoff game as they swept the Hawks in 2002 (I think), and I watched the tiny Cardinals score in the upper corner of the arena as they played an early season game in New York at least as much as I watched the hockey game in front of me... some of us are just obsessed, I guess. We lost a lead in the 8th that night... must have brought in Veres :)
by ahunter on Aug 17, 2007 11:07 AM EDT reply actions
That was me
They had the Giants/Atlanta game underneath the Cardinals/Brewers game on the scoreboard and sometimes I'd look at the wrong one.
Atleast 3 times I said "4 to 2 now? Damnit Wells, way to give one back!"
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
my two favorite parts of bernie's column
1) his authentically humble eating of crow for his suggestion to shut rolen down.
and
2) this exhange with rolen in reference to his revival with the bat:
Interestingly enough, when I joked with Rolen, I expected him to tease me back -- give me some good-natured grief. Instead he surprised me with his response.
He told me not to feel bad. Why? "Because I don't understand this," he said.
What do you mean?
"I don't know what's happening. I can't explain it."
in my mind, it just expemplifies the unpredictability of this game.
It didn't particularly seem like he was eating
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
We see it differently then
"Hey I was right, he is hurting and would be better if he got cleaned up, but he has helped fuel this resurgence so in that essence I was also very wrong, maybe giving up in this unpredictable game isn't such a good idea after all"
That is what I took from Bernie which seemed very humble to me.
I appreciated Bernie's commentary at first too
Also, Scott didn't clear Bernie of all the insults he has flung at the team this season. Bernie didn't just speak of Scott's injury and concern for his wellbeing. He called him old (at 32) and lacking passion (a "stale" player); he dangled suspicions about the team having widespread drug and/or alcohol problems; he used "Vince" to spread rumors about a dead teammate who was not yet in the ground. If anyone disagreed with his opinions or his journalistic timing, they were "mental" or "idiots" or "fools' who were simply blinded by an ujusifiable love for the team.
I think Bernie is reading too much into this whole "forgiveness" thing. Since Josh Hancock's death he's frequently exaggerated, sensationalized, and rumor-mongered--all with a sanctimonious and, on occasion, vicious tone. This does seem like a really cagey way to simply say "see I was right Tony to be on my crusade all season; Scott's with me".
by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying Hancock wasn't drunk?
by Dexter Westbrook on Aug 17, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
At that point it was a rumor
I believe the police reported that they could not find "Vince" to confirm his report--he must have been a really solid lead to disappear so quickly! And many witnesses later contradicted "Vince's" observations.
Having some basic journalistic standards concerning evidence and confirmation is the point, not being sanctimonious. Doesn't your profession have rules of conduct your supposed to follow?
by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Your post is a crock
You don't have any notion of journalistic standards, or any other kind of standards, as far as I can tell. The rest of your post is what is known as making shit up.
by Dexter Westbrook on Aug 18, 2007 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
There were also a few handful of witnesses
And Bernie, everyone can see through the name. Just kidding :D
Anyways, it's nice to see that 1 game has Bernie back off the bandwagon. Today's article is nice. Apparently he believe Lou Pinella willed the Cubs into winning on Friday and that has shut down the Cardinals hot streak. You know, just like losing 2-1 to Brad Penny did.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
D.W. see this post
Maybe you haven't kept up on the news on the incident. If there were lots of witnesses who said the contrary that should be reported and if "Vince" refused to come forward in the investigation, it makes his statements and motivation seem fishy (the P-D also knew Campbell refuted "Vince" the following day).
Man, you sound a lot like Bernie--lashing out with a "you have no standards at all" comment when we are disagreeing about something many fans have legitimately disagreed about.
One more thing. Bernie also spread rumors about Speezio before he had adequate confirmation.
He later erased the whole thread, (whether that was because of pressure from the paper or Speezio's agent or lawyer is unknown). It was a bogus thing to do though--put all sorts of unsubstaniated trash out there for an entire day and then delete it after it had been read so that he couldn't be held respsonsible.
by nycardfan on Aug 18, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys
Well he seems to have become
by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be good for me to look at that
by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Here
"Shut Rolen Down? No, Just Shut Bernie Up"
"I told Rolen he was making me look bad. A while back, I wrote a blog in which I suggested it was time to shut Rolen down for the season, and let him have surgery on his problematic left shoulder. This would give him the best chance to be at full strength by the start of the 2008 season. It seemed like a wise idea at the time.... well, of course, nothing of the sort happened, and Rolen played very well in the Cardinals' three-game series sweep of the Brewers.
Score another one for my expertise."
Read the rest of the link for more of it, but he does take a lot of crow in it.
That was what I was commenting on
And I still agree with Hardcore Legend's main point above.
by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't Explain It
On the other hand, so many things just cannot be predicted or explained.
Must be why Jack used to say, "Every time I come to the ballpark I see something I haven't seen before."
true
One very minor point
Weirdly, however, he may have looked at that soft spot in their schedule (vs. the Pirates and Nats) as a reason. No one (at least not I) thought they'd be winning so handily against a string of +.500 teams.
thanks brian, i missed that
and i'm still not totally sold that they're gonna finish at .500; might be we're not seeing anything more than a crazy blip in the standings. but i'm definitely open to persuasion.
EY on Baseball Tonight
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Obvious keys to the Cubs series
1.Keep the Cubs hrs to only solo shots. Don't give up the 3-run bombs.
- We need to score many runs early and often. Duh! Pujols & Rolen need to really step it up this series. Pujols especially needs to be more patient at the plate and turn it up a notch, his HR at Milwaukee is a good sign that he is ready to go on one of his HR sprees.
- Don't give up walks or put a lot of men on in front of Ramirez, he has been hot coming off his injury. To me he is the most dangerous hitter on their team right now.
- Try to get to the Cubs bullpen quickly, after their series against the Reds, their bullpen has to be worn out.
I also think for the first time in awhile we are going to get blown out in a game like with a 12-2 score.
Enc Plays
How does Edmonds get a start against LHP
I'd rather Edmonds take the day off, rest those legs and let Ankiel patrol CF.
Oh well, I guess Tony is just saying 'we are going with our horses'.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Edmonds
But...I am also starting to wonder if Tony is maybe starting to protect Ankiel a little. Maybe trying to keep him as our "NEW secret weapon" for a little while longer. As in not letting the Cubs see his weakness spots in his hitting for a little bit longer. Though I bet Rick will start at least 2 or 3 games this series, unless Juan has a big game today which could change things a bit.
lineup
David Eckstein, SS
Ryan Ludwick, LF
Albert Pujols, 1B
Juan Encarnacion, RF
Scott Rolen, 3B
Jim Edmonds, CF
Yadier Molina, C
Braden Looper, P
Brendan Ryan, 2B
I don't mind that lineup one bit
by Keep your hands off on Aug 17, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Juan
Tony's mind games are amusing, if nothing else
by Keep your hands off on Aug 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
LaRussa told KTRS
I understand his point, but I think he is only partly right; in my opinion we don't have 4-hole Albert protection even when Juan IS in there.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather see Taguchi or Ankiel in for Ludwick
Ludwick's the right guy
I'll take Ludwick over Gooch as well. His power threat will loom large in windy Wrigley.
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Inter-blog questions...
Not telling you how to do your job, but...well, okay. Maybe I am a little bit.
3 out of 4 vs the Cubs
We would be tied with the Cubs and have a .500 record heading into the last 6 weeks of the season.
I have WGN on mute, and Shannon and Rooney on the radio. Beer in hand. Afternoon off. Life is good.
by Keep your hands off on Aug 17, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
couple of good at bats so far...
we goto the bottom of the first
What did
Angel Hernandez
Odd really
listening to the radio
by Handsome B Wonderful on Aug 17, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
I'm just glad
Ditto
holy cow
Thank you, WGN guys,
All the insight that's really needed should be
LOL
Gotta know...
With the air show in Chicago, this game sounds more like Shea than Wrigley.
Yes
9th is 9th
I agree that B Ryan probably isn't giving it a single thought.
In my opinion, there is not only no 'crying' in baseball, there is no "disrespect" either. I dislike the fact that that term has gained so much parlance.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Dinosaurs!
I buy more into the latter and think the same issue's at play here. If the manager chooses to implement a strategy that'll help your team win (and I buy into the pitcher-bats-8th theory) the ninth-hitting batter ought to end up feeling honored that he was a part of a minor revolution. If the strategy works to score more runs per game, the guy you ask to bat behind the pitcher ought to be proud that he made a contribution to the team's success; if it fails (and I don't expect it would) he might get sick of being the guy out on a limb of sorts.
Like others have said, Ryan's the perfect guy for the job. He's doing EXACTLY what he ought to be doing, taking good at-bats and getting on base and being happy just to be batting ninth for St. Louis instead of eighth for Memphis. And credit due to Kennedy, who didn't bitch about it before going down with the knee injury. It'd be great to see him bounce back next year after all the crap he's taken this one.
hitters are doing a great job
hill is pitching well, only faced 2 more than the minimum thus far, and he's already up to 57 pitches through 3. that's more than 5 p/pa. keep it going boys.
looper's season era under 5!
Pagnozzi
I had the pleasure
Currently Tommy Herr's son is playing infield (mostly 3rd base) for Louisville.. now the AAA team of Cincinnati.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Pitcher status through 3
Ground outs-fly outs: Looper 5-1, Hill, R 2-4.
Batters faced: Looper 9, Hill, R 11.
Pags II
by BluesDrummer85 on Aug 17, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
yeah.. foolish
Kind of pisses on the whole team strategy...
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupid call
Looked even worse on the replay
Rolen Struck Out
Angel Hernandez ruled interference and called it a double play.
batter interference
Angel strikes again
from that last replay
Of course not
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Angel Hernandez's strikezone is getting worse by
And nice hustle on that flyball to right, Juan. Welcome back!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
On gameday,
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Angel Hernandez
I'm more
Fuck you Angel Hernandez
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions
Tony?
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Good on Tony
He had to get a few words in with Angel and has a legitimate opportunity here.
this is BULLSHIT
also, despite the interference, yadi would have absolutely NAILED him if eck could have held on to the ball.
It was Ryan
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to argue interference
It really is just too bad that Ryan couldn't hold onto the ball.
At least we got out of the inning unscathed.
by dontEATnachos on Aug 17, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't a perfect throw
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish
just for fun
(fyi...googling "worst umpire" also brings up angel hernandez in less than .0001 seconds)
so we're penalized
Good Job by Loop
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions
To the Guy from BCB that is reading us
Fortunately...
Supposedly
In the argument
by dontEATnachos on Aug 17, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Nonsense
Nice AB by Yadi...
These are the rules I found.
A batter is out for illegal action when --
(c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher's play at home base. EXCEPTION: Batter is not out if any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if runner trying to score is called out for batter's interference.
Rule 6.06(c) Comment: If the batter interferes with the catcher, the plate umpire shall call "interference." The batter is out and the ball dead. No player may advance on such interference (offensive interference) and all runners must return to the last base that was, in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference.
If, however, the catcher makes a play and the runner attempting to advance is put out, it is to be assumed there was no actual interference and that runner is out--not the batter. Any other runners on the base at the time may advance as the ruling is that there is no actual interference if a runner is retired. In that case play proceeds just as if no violation had been called.
If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire's judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing before the catcher has securely held the ball, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play.
7.09
It is interference by a batter or a runner when --
(a) After a third strike he hinders the catcher in his attempt to field the ball;
Hmm
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 17, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Oh man...
Nice catch Jones
BTW I know that what Pujols was doing has no affect on the throw and that Ryan not holding on was the main problem, it is just annoying that Cubs get one way and the Cards get the other on the same call regardless of what else was happening.
Dang it
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 17, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions
Molina
by paCardsFan on Aug 17, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think the expression goes...
This Inning
Wow
Pitcher status through 5
Pitches-strikes: Looper 78-42, Hill, R 88-56.
Ground outs-fly outs: Looper 7-4, Hill, R 2-7.
Batters faced: Looper 17, Hill, R 18.
Last three hitters
I don't know how much longer we want to keep him in there (besides trying to keep our quality start streak running).
Pitch count low though
by dontEATnachos on Aug 17, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
OK...
Urk.
wow, hill's stuff is really, really good
Looper hit hard last inning
Pitches 76-90:
BAA:.371
OBP: .408
SLG: .629
PUJOLS!!!!!!
Pujols!
YARD
But Loop is almost certain to stay out there....
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I must admit
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Great work, Juan
If he never starts again for us
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I would
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
OK Loop
Drag bunt
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Short leash!
Lee and Ramirez against a tiring looper is scary.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
Nope
Let the implosion begin.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Jacque Jones is a lowball hitter
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions
Crap
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 17, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a curve
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ballgame.
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:09 PM EDT reply actions
eh?
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
They'll throw Marmol, Ohman and Dempster
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Between those three
If you take 19/36 as the probability we don't score a run in a given inning, the chance of us not scoring in three innings is like 14%....
Lots of time boys, lots of time...
by duncansarmy on Aug 17, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Doh
I knew Loop would give up a HR
Looper hasn't be able to find the strikezone
And there is the walk to Lee.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
C'mon, Tony
Still pitching...
Whew.
I can still hear Looper saying...
by LilEck on Aug 17, 2007 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
I take it back
by LilEck on Aug 17, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Tony's been reading veb...
and
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
GRRRRRRR
Jones=Encarnacion?
If Juan could ever get hot like Jones it
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones n' Enc
Then two or three days later, the Cards signed Encarnacion to virtually the same contract and I stopped grinning.
Murton's going to crush one
Ugh.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
Wheew
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
grr...
Lets see if Looper can get out of this. But we all know that Looper should be out of the game in short order...
well
by dontEATnachos on Aug 17, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's hear it...
by LilEck on Aug 17, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that I've ever been this disappointed
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
Ladies and Gentlemen...
Go get 'em Redbirds!
<starts breathing again>
Alright
Bad news is
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
this sucks....
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
Is there any chance, Loop is out there for the 7th
who cares
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wonderful attitude
Flores is in
Um guys...
Well I thought
but maybe he is still in the Cubs Dugout in Wriggly, cutting Lou's phone line to the pen.
a pujols homerun....
Hill out...
Nice work, Randy
Nice quote from BCB
you know if he ever starts with Z or Marquis it would be the time for the La Russa lineup"
True enough too, Z and Marquis are good hitters, kinda like Wells and Waino (though he has looked bad lately)
C'mon Dunc...
I think it's time
Man
Feh.
Genius move there Brendan
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:34 PM EDT reply actions
Yaay, Eck!
Interesting move...
i'm thinking
by Birds on the Matt on Aug 17, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
by Birds on the Matt on Aug 17, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
everything is away to Rick
OK that pitch was inside...he just missed that one.
Holy crap
Albert....
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions
You mean
He should've waited for a pitch he could hit then.
by TriplePlay on Aug 17, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Make up your mind
If you're gonna make goofy statements, at least COMMIT to them. We'll respect that a little more...
Dammit.
not at all
No
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tip of the cap
you just can't put the go ahead run on second...
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't let AP beat you
Well, that's the game
1 pitch popup
Lazy flyball to left
Strikeout swinging
Good night everybody.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
Or
line out to second
2-R HR.
by glennrwordman on Aug 17, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
H-Core
Faith-Based, I know, I know!!
by glennrwordman on Aug 17, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd have faith
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just means
Every at bat
by glennrwordman on Aug 17, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Good job, Russ!
Let's go, Clutchy McClutchenheimer!
When
by glennrwordman on Aug 17, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Juan "Mr. Clutch" Encarnacion
At least Ankiel saw plenty of pitches and took a walk. <sigh>
Glad
Head to head:
Encarneasada: 1-10 (He's Due!)
Edwards: 7-21, 2 2b, HR (Hits him pretty hard!)
ScoRo: 6-26, 2 2b, HR (Hits him pretty hard!)
here goes dempster....
Dempster's in
I'll take...
ohhhh....
please
Hardcore
I'm not happy about it
Just have to win the next 3 (which won't be easy).
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally
This was the one I was really concerned about.
Yeah, I know.
by glennrwordman on Aug 17, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
that sucks. hard.
Good game, Little Bears
Let's hope we have 3 more just like it (but with the scoring reversed, naturally).
You've got to hand it to 'em...
LaRussa should implement...
Or how about eliminating his starts alltogether
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno...
As for Looper, he's really good early on, then he falls off a cliff. If you have the stones to bat the pitcher 8th, why not combine Looper-Wellemeyer to the benefit of both?
not looper's fault
How funny is it...
Thanks a lot, Bud! <grumble>
Bright side
Seriously, though. That was a great game, well pitched. No more Angel Hernandez behind the plate.
Like the matchup tomorrow. Hopefully Big Z will rest on his laurels now that he's gotten his big contract on Sunday and we'll be looking at the chance for 3-4 on Monday, which would make for a damned good road trip.
per earlier discussion re: which outfielders
Indeed.
But when you only get 4 hits all game, that 0-11 really isn't very surprising.
I say play the Gooch tomorrow
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Well if the team doesn't hit
better hope for better from our outfielders offensively tomorrow.
More Good News
Out of spite
Good question
But I really hope we can come back and win at least 2 games this series, if not we sure did the Cubs a HUGE favor this week and that would be sickening.
Tough call
but won't it be much more fun
A very good point
not really
Brewers lose = we're 3.0 back
For me, that's an easy call. Go Reds!
Games like this are why Tony drives me crazy...
I guess I can understand playing Ludwick, he's been on something of a hot streak lately. But why bat him 2nd? He rarely walks. Especially against lefties.
Why not go with Ryan 2nd? Or Rolen? Or even Juan? He normally doesn't walk much, but has done so pretty good vs Lefties this. And it probably would make more sense than batting him 4th after his layoff, where he would be under more pressure.
I realize hindsite is 20/20, but in low scoring games, even a 5% chance (the difference between a .300 OBP and .350) can be big.
aye
here's an exciting bit of info about Brendan Ryan: he's currently #14 in MLB for VORP out of rookies (in only 83 at bats). I know he can't be as good as he's looked so far, but it's awesome seeing his name on a list above guys like Saltalamacchia, alex gordon, etc...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=205449
New ESPN Power Rankings
Cardinals 12th up from 23rd
Cubs 13th down from 12th
Brewers stay at 18th
Nice jump up on the rankings but I think they may be off a bit too much I would say we rank around 18th or so.
Rankings this month
2nd to Washington in ERA 3.79 (San Diego is 3rd)
14th in SOs with 89
5th in BAA .260
1st in BBs with 33 (Cubs last with 72)
4th in OPS against with .741
1st in WHIP with 1.24
1st in SB allowed with 4
tied for 8th in HR with 17
tied for 8th with the Cubs in RBIs with 72
9th in OPS with .782 (Cubs 10th with .780)
9th in Ks with 106 and only 10th in BBs with 52
Also I checked season fielding percentage stats, we are first in 3B, worst in RF and second worst in SS and 7th for LF,CF 6th for 1B and lastly 11th for C,P.
I think SS and RF
Tony needs to memorize writing R Y A N and A N K I E L on the line-up card.
When Dunc is in left, you just sigh and say he is in there for his bat. I can't say that anymore about either Eck or Enc.
With our pitching staff, defense is elevated in importance. Ryan MUST play, and at SS, no less. If Tony insists on starting Eck, put the little squirt on 2b.
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Gorram FOX Saturday baseball
Cards-Cubs to a mere 26% of the country. This is one of those times I hate living in an AL city.
Let me guess
I had to laugh last weekend when Baseball tonight had like 10 minutes focused on the Yankees and about 45 seconds for the Cards when they whipped the Dodgers.
It was a little unnerving last night
Last week I had to deal with the insolence of FOX when my dad in Atlanta getting Dodgers-Cards while I was faced with Red Sox-Orioles (Orioles!!) here in Seattle.
by ColinMacLeod on Aug 17, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't able to watch most of this game
I've never really been for or against the guy, to me he's about as average as average comes. We could do worse with someone else, but he could certainly be improved upon.
If he was being given a final audition for his job today, I would have to think he lost it.
May I say only this?
I'll try not to mess up the place here.
You guys offered much-needed perspective and even a little hope that not only was the season not lost in the single afternoon, but hey, after all, after the past eight days, this game even mattered!
My only weakness as an otherwise level-headed forum poster is that I think Jim Hayes is creepy. And I happen to like Dan McLaughlin as a broadcaster.
by LTSmash on Aug 17, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions
i wholeheartedly agree.
and after checking out bleed cubbies bleed, i am even more appreciative of the quality of this site's posts and the stringent enforcement of community guidelines.
thanks to all!
So true
by cardsgirl95 on Aug 17, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Suppan's downfall
Anyway, besides defense, what has made him seem less effective this year than last? Maybe it is an outside perspective or maybe I am just imagining it but he seems to get beat up on more often nowadays then he did with us, I miss Sup though he was always fun to watch in an interview.
Having just watched the series against the
Sounds reasonable
Just watch an awesome Brandon Phillips AB against Supp, ended in a 10 pitch walk.
Soup should sue his defense
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Cardnilly Standard
Suppan's value is that he can give you those kinds of starts once every five days, all season long, then turn it up a notch in late September and October.
Looper did better than that today and there's nobody around here complaining that he didn't give us a chance to win. The lineup didn't score enough runs and perhaps you could fault Tony with leaving Looper in a batter too long, but Looper did more than enough to help the team today.
Soup did enough to help his team win. Cornroyo-yo is just having one of his good games and the bullpen isn't keeping it close (aside from that strikeout of Hamilton.)
Arroyo, though, has only needed 68 pitches to get through 6 innings. That's insane. It looks like the Cubs are gonna be in sole possession at the top tomorrow morning. Good thing we have something to say about that tomorrow afternoon.
One more thing about Suppan... The Brewers better hope he has a great season next year. His contract goes bananas in 2009 and a no-trade clause goes into effect. Signing him would look good if they could move him after next year.
More weird stuff
With Estrada at the plate
gross's throw
Wow
Was there a play at the plate, even?
they would have if
and since the shift was on (braun fielded the grounder in shortstop territory), jenkins couldn't get over there to retrieve it to even make an attempt to get griffey at the plate. what a mess!
Two errors, two runs.....is Soup still on the
Brewers (back) to AL
I wish the Royals would have switched to the NL instead.
Something I'll be rooting for tonight:
That the White Sox get a lead against Seattle so that Bobby Jenks has a chance to break Jim Barr's consecutive batters retired streak.
Not that I have anything against the Mariners... Just want to see a record get broken and be happy about it.
gotta love solo home runs
89 pitches for 29 batters
Am I the only one that completely missed this?
I've been pretty busy with a move and work stuff, but I'm surprised I had absolutely no idea this streak was going on.
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 17, 2007 10:50 PM EDT reply actions
The Last NL Pitcher
Brandon Webb's one of my favorite pitchers to watch (especially in the game earlier this season that I was in the stands for when Looper beat 'im)—he's deserving of winning it again, I'd say. Even though a part of me thinks Carp should have gotten it last year.
I thought Oswalt should have won it last year,
But 42 innings is pretty amazing, as is 3 straight complete game shutouts. I'll be rooting for him to keep both streaks going on his next start, especially since it looks like it'll be against Milwaukee on Wednesday....
by BTown Birds fan on Aug 17, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I love watching Oswalt.......
I like the way Webb's nose slopes
by CurtFlood on Aug 18, 2007 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Webb's next start
by LTSmash on Aug 18, 2007 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
not sure what hardcore predicted
hopefully tommorrow starts a new streak
brewers freefall continues,
Your PJ Walters update
August 17, 2007 - The Springfield Cardinals and San Antonio Missions split a double-header on Friday night in San Antonio, as Springfield took the first game 2-1, then got blanked 1-0 in game two.
P.J. Walters tossed five scoreless innings of two-hit baseball in game one, as he won for the second time in five Double-A starts. Walters (2-3), who didn't allow a hit until Will Venable singled to open the fourth, struck out three and walked just one man.
He didn't get a ton of run support, but Colby Rasmus did give him the lead just one batter into the game. Rasmus homered to right field to lead off the game, tying Aaron Herr's single-season record of 21 home runs to give the Cards a 1-0 lead.
Go get 'em, kid.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 2:06 AM EDT reply actions
5 wins in a row... streak broken
The curse of the left-handed pitching? The curse of breaking up the team line-up (Mr. No-hustle Encarnacion... for all his production, does the team not like the guy?)
Is anyone keeping track of the two-leader-off-hitter "expirement?" How many extra runs has this scored us?
by redbird2006in on Aug 18, 2007 2:24 AM EDT reply actions
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