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watersheds

it was exactly 3 months ago that the cardinals started to hit --- on may 14. the previous day, padres rookie justin germano had shut the cardinals out on 3 hits, the team's second shutout in 3 days. the feeble effort prompted the following comments from jim edmonds:

we're not doing our job. we need to make a better effort, have a little more energy, and do a better job of scoring runs. it's pretty sickening what's going on out there. . . . it's getting a little old, and we're all to blame.
la russa was similarly disgusted after the game, refusing to answer questions about the offense. "ask the hitters," he said; "ask them how they feel about how we hit." at the time, the cardinals ranked dead last in the major leagues in scoring, with a pathetic 3.1 runs/game average. the very next night, they pounded brett tomko for 8 runs; the night after that, they hung 7 on derek lowe. it was a true watershed: the bats returned to active duty after edmonds' comments, and they have remained there. here's the team's batting line before and after:
G AVG OBP SLG R/G HR/G
through april 13 35 .234 .303 .323  3.1  0.5
since april 13 80 .286 .349 .434  4.9  1.0

over that 80-game period --- half a season --- the cardinals rank 4th in the national league in scoring, behind the phillies rockies and braves; they've outscored the cubs and brewers by a quarter-run a game over that span. if you doubled that 80-game batting line to get a season-length sample, here's how it would compare to the numbers posted by cardinal teams of recent vintage:

AB   R   H 2B 3B HR BB AVG OBP SLG
2007 5502 790 1574 294 10 166 524 .286 .349 .434
2006 5522 781 1484 292 27 184 531 .269 .337 .431
2005 5538 805 1494 287 26 170 534 .270 .339 .423

all this because of a few harsh words by jim edmonds? well, not exactly --- but i do think his statements were significant. if that's what he was saying in public, i have to believe that he (and probably others) were speaking just as bluntly in the privacy of the clubhouse. there seems to have been a change in the team's dynamic after that, a conscious stiffening of resolve. recall for a moment that may 13 was only two weeks after josh hancock's death, and less than a week after it was announced that carpenter would need an operation to clean out his elbow --- the bone-chip thing --- and would be sidelined for 10 weeks or so. i think those two blows left the cardinals shell-shocked and unfocused, perhaps feeling a little sorry for themselves; maybe some of them had already begun to play out the string on the season, just going through the motions.

a few other things also changed after may 13. one is that juan encarnacion rejoined the team; actually, may 13 was his first game back. he replaced the schumaker / preston wilson platoon in right field and brought some desperately needed production to what had been a vacant hole in the lineup. another addition to the outfield, ryan ludwick, started getting regular playing time; he had been recalled on may 6 and made a few token starts, but since may 13 he has appeared in 69 of 80 games (starting 33) and contributed 10 homers and an .837 ops. all the smurfs got hot at the same time --- eckstein's hitting .350 (.815 ops) since may 13, brendan ryan .343 (.904), schumaker .356 (.967). above all, albert pujols returned to form. he batted .248 / .347 / .426 through may 13; since then, his line reads .339 / .443 / .595. when he hits like that, the cardinals score runs no matter what anyone else does. indeed, the cardinals have carried plenty of dead weight through that 80-game stretch --- a .705 ops from aaron miles in 230 at-bats, 4th-highest at-bat total on the team; a .659 ops from molina, .572 from adam kennedy. they're still playing with 2 or 3 automatic outs in the lineup on most nights. here are the cardinals' full batting stats since may 13, courtesy of pinto's day-by-day database.

can they keep this up? let's begin with the obvious: brendan ryan ain't no .343 hitter. i like the kid and i'm glad he's getting his shot --- maybe he's the everyday shortstop next year --- but he's bound to cool down. even if he drops off, however, he's surely going to outhit adam kennedy --- i think we can just call that a wash. eckstein is also due to slack off, but as long as he can keep his obp at or above .340 --- and that's a reasonable hope --- he's doing his job. rolen's sprinkling of magical cortisone dust seems to be wearing off; i wouldn't expect a sustained surge from him. edmonds? he hasn't homered in over two months (his last one was june 9); since his return from the dl four weeks ago, he has a .701 ops with 4 runs scored and 5 rbi. . . . . but in the last week he's hit the ball harder, and he's such a streak hitter that he's liable to go on a tear at any time.

much depends on how things shake out in right field. if ankiel can sustain his hot start, he'll represent an upgrade over encarnacion; if the league adjusts to him, the gamble might backfire in the short term. i'm not opposed to the gamble --- the long term matters more than the short term to me at this point in the cardinals' journey, and from a long-term perspective it makes sense for the organization to prioritize high-risk, high-reward guys like ankiel over known but limited quantities like juan encarnacion. so i'm down with the experiment. but, to the extent that we're still hoping to close out 2007 with a run at the playoffs, we should acknowledge the stakes. the cards are removing a reliable bat, one that helped solidify a floundering offense, in favor of a guy who really could go either way. ankiel might slug .700 over the last third of the season and help carry the team over the top; he also might post a .270 on-base percentage and make lots of outs to go along with the occasional homer.

but there's also the potential --- one the cardinals considered, you can be sure --- that ankiel's callup might effect a change similar to the one that happened after may 13 --- a change in the dynamic. just 4 games into the ankiel era, a team that seemed stale appears fresh; a team i characterized (rather aptly, if i do say so myself) as zombies on the very day ankiel was recalled has suddenly begun to exhibit life-like attributes. maybe ankiel is the re-animator? when the last 47 games are in the books, i'll take a look back (won't be the only one, i'm sure) to see what kind of watershed august 9 proves to be.

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Wrong date
You have April 13th in your stat line

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Well watershed is right
Because staring down a 7 game road swing against the two teams the Cards  must pass to get into the playoffs is about as watershed as it is going to come this late in the season.

One other point about the offense, I still fail to understand why Juan E gets benched. Looking over that offensive group, the best outfield the Cards can field is Duncan, Juan E. and Ankiel, with Edmonds and Ludwick filling in as well.  Edmonds should not/ would not be one of the top 3.

Maybe the key decision is not and should not be between the limited and known quantity of Juan E vs. the upside of Ankiel, but instead between the known quantity of Juan E. and the seemingly punchless Edmonds?

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Intagibles maybe?
Juan doesn't bring the same clubhouse presence that Edmonds does.  If it was Jim's comments and not Juan's return that triggered the offensive surge then having a happy Edmonds may actually be more valuable to the production of the rest of the team then having a healthy Juan performing like Juan can perform.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well
I feel pretty confidant saying that Edmonds would never be benched by TLR in favor of Juan E. because of Edmonds "veteran presence."

Not to say that such a presence does not have value. 2006 clearly showed that such a presence can have value. That said, Edmonds is clearly in decline. A vet willing to do what it takes to win might recognize that Edmonds is  more valuable to the team as an outfield supper sub, allowing Edmonds to rest more, than playing everyday and generating lower offensive output than Juan E.

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok.. small sample size I know.. but look at August
Edmonds OPS .962
Encarancion OPS .629

Sometimes you just have to go with the current hot bat.

by outraged on Aug 14, 2007 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

This may be true
But also consider the reaction  by Juan E. to Ankiel eating up his playing time. Would Juan be hitting better if he weren't sulking?

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uhh
Juan hasn't played once since Ankiel was called up. So that hasn't affected his production at all.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly his point
Why won't Juan get off his high horse and play!  What a lazy slacker.  He has plenty of time to make comments in the paper but no time to actually play in the outfield.

We need to DFA/RFK/MSG Juan Encarnacion!

by dontEATnachos on Aug 14, 2007 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again Uhh?
So Juan chose to be benched?  Maybe on Sunday but come on he was at the games every day (I was there on Friday and he was twitching in his seat on the bench and I think he wanted to be out there).  I may knock on Juan and I may want him traded but I won't say he doesn't want to play, he wants to play but I just don't like what it appears his motivations are for playing.  Maybe you were being sarcastic and I missed it though.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who would play center?
Can Ankiel play center? I certainly wouldn't want Juan E or Duncan out there.

by googs77 on Aug 14, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Duncan in center.
Just sit back and think about that for a minute.

by sdrone on Aug 14, 2007 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sunday's original lineup
if I recall correctly, had Ankiel in center, Juan in right.

I think the point made above is valid regarding our best outfield not necessarily being a choice between Juan and Ankiel.  In fact, although I'd hate to see it, replacing Duncan with Ankiel would make more sense right now as Duncan seems to be in a major funk lately.

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 14, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watershed?
You know, I have no real idea how this week is going to go for this team, and as much as I'll continue to follow, it's not going to break my heart either way.  I changed my frame of mind around quite a while back, to watch this year, but really pay attention for next.  Given that frame of mind, I have to say that those numbers actually make me fairly optimistic for next season's offense.  They haven't been fantastic this season, but there's a little more there than I thought.  Just a couple of minor upgrades, (at least one new middle infielder with a legitimate bat, mostly) and the 2008 offense could compare pretty favorably to some of the really great Cards teams of the past few years.  
To hell with your spoiled baby! I need those shoes!

by the red baron on Aug 14, 2007 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

In all fairness to Edmonds....
he homered on Saturday.....it was just Matt Kemp decided to be a jerk and bring it back.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 14, 2007 9:23 AM EDT reply actions  

great point
. . . and that's just the kind of event that does one of two things to JEd:
  • starts him on a huge hitting tear
  • sends him into an exaggerated upper-cutting tailspin
Here's hoping for the former.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Aug 14, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

It goes w/o saying
that we'll find out if the Cards have a chance this week.  On the road at Milwaukee and Chicago for 7 -- this is an opportunity to make up some ground, as is necessary.  Losing ground, especially by going 2-5 would probably end it.

Pitching probables:
Wells vs. Capuano
Pineiro vs. Gallardo
Wainwright vs. Bush

Looper vs. Hill
Reyes vs. Marshall
Wells vs. Zambrano
Pineiro vs. Lilly

It's too bad we only have Wainwright going once -- he's become the de facto starter.  I sure would like to see Marquis but, what can you do?  A 4-3 road trip is definitely a possibility and, while it wouldn't make up much ground, it would keep us w/i striking distance as we come home to play 12 out of 15 at Busch.  

by chuckb on Aug 14, 2007 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Do you mean
"de facto ace", not "de facto starter"?  Wainer has been a starter all season.  

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 14, 2007 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, yeah
of course, de facto ace -- Thanks.

by chuckb on Aug 14, 2007 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would have agreed a couple of weeks ago
but the last week after the previous disaster of a week on the road makes me think that the coming week isn't a watershed week.  Going 2-5 will certainily hurt this team, but there is still time for the Brewers and the Cubs to continue to fall apart and for the Cards to come back.  Precious little time but still time.  Certainly, the week gives the Cards a better shot at controlling their own destiny.  The problem is that these games are on the road, and it will be tough for the Cards to come out of this road trip with a winning record.  If they end up 3-4, I still think they have a decent shot, providing their starting pitching holds up and of course the Cubs and Brewers continue their swoons.

by Wahoo on Aug 14, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

4-3
To me, all 4-3 does is cut games off the schedule.  After that, we'd have 4 with the Cubs and three with the Brewers in September.  So 4-3 is better than some alternatives, of course, but to really make a move, I think they need to go at least 5-2.

by Cardinal70 on Aug 14, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed--
But the schedule shows only 3 and 3 with CHI and MIL in september.

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago
I've got on my calendar a double header on the 15 to make up for the game postponed for Hancock's death.  Maybe I wrote it down wrong.

by Cardinal70 on Aug 14, 2007 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

You might be rgiht
I haven't seen an official announcement about that yet but I have heard it other places.  ...Just checked the schedule on stlcardinals.com and it does have a doubleheader that day....wtf our team is going to be run ragged, that is going to give us 21 games in 20 days without a break (make of NYM rain out is scheduled for our off day between Mil and Pit now too).  So 10th of Sep is our last off day of the season with a double header, who scheduled that junk?

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

stlcardinals.com
agrees that the game cancelled after Josh Hancock's death is rescheduled for Sept. 15.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Aug 14, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

God scheduled that junk
Rainout and player's death.  He's the only one to blame.
"The Phillies honored PR man Larry Shenk for 44 years of service. Shenk told the crowd he had one request: 'Don't boo so much.' The crowd promptly booed."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 14, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not exactly
that "rainout" was no real rainout, it was the Mets wanting to get to a doubleheader without playing us the last game.

Also the schedulers could have placed us in a DH against Chi in July but I guess since we already had one with Mil and Chi had a tough schedule (I think they did anyway) or since mid week is a bad time for a DH they chose not too.  Anyway it still plain sucks.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Expanded Rosters
With the expanded rosters in September, it is a much better time for the schedule to be packed.  A lot more options so you don't burn out your pitching staff.

by tjgila on Aug 14, 2007 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That means
There are only two days left this season (August 27 and September 10) that the Cards don't play.

It may be rough for them, but it's good for the fans.  I hate off days!

by Cardinal70 on Aug 14, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your line,
"all the smurfs got hot at the same time", made me laugh out loud.  Smurfs - ha!

by cardsgirl95 on Aug 14, 2007 9:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Say what you want about the hitting
We will live and die with the starting pitching.  If it comes through down the stretch as it has for the past two weeks or so, then we have a shot.  I don't see this team outscoring the opposition in games 10-8 very often.  The offense is certainly better but not overwhelming.  We just don't have the MV3 anymore for production and must manufacture more runs, and that is fine as long as the starting pitching holds up.

by Wahoo on Aug 14, 2007 9:55 AM EDT reply actions  

on Rolen
Bernie had something in the PD the other day making the argument for shutting Rolen down and doing exploratory surgery to remove possible scar tissue.  does that make sense to you all?  you could argue "No!  we've still got a chance for October!"  well, I guess Rolen at third does give you the best shot to win the division, especially now that Spezio's lost to rehab.  but, I've got to ask, does that really matter?  I mean, you're gonna win the pennant with this rotation?  come on.  might it better, all things considered, with that longterm in mind, to maximize whatever shot you've got at getting the old Rolen back.  I mean, THAT could really make a difference.  thoughts?

by perrone on Aug 14, 2007 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

I have been
making this argument since mid July. If the season is over, then we should shut Rolen down.

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

The tough part of this summer has been
determining when/if the season is really over.  I was ready to call it after losing 5 straight to Pittsburgh/Washington, but the Cubs and Brewers won't run away and hide, so the Cardinals owe it to the fans to keep Scotty on the field until it's really over.

That's it!  It's an insidious plot by the Cubs and Brewers to keep Rolen from being fully healed at the start of 2008!

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Aug 14, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's Brilliant
How did I miss that conspiracy....

by gonzostl on Aug 14, 2007 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

All too often
a team looks like 'we will be there again next year' only to find things just fall apart.  Pujols could blow out his hamstring in the 2nd week of ST next year and not be heard from until 2009.  Wainwright could need shoulder surgery.

So, we'd have a health Scott Rolen and a team without it's best hitter and pitcher.

When you have the chance to win (make the playoffs), you have to try and do it.  You never know if you'll ever be in that situation again.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 14, 2007 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree
that you go for it if you have the chance, but if the Cards stumble this week (fall back to 7 or 8 back again) then I say that the Cards don't really have a chance and that Rolen should be shut down.

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, the Cardinals' and
Rolen's history suggest that the team and player will do the right thing ... but only after exhausting every ridiculous, risky strategy they can think of to keep Scotty on the field.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 14, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

On Rolen.
I think that the next 7 days determine what we do w/ the rest of the season.  We can not afford to do any worse than 4-3.  It is getting late enough in the season that "staying within striking distance" is starting lose importance.  I'm sorry if some of you folks who are much smarter than I, have already answered this, but is there any chance of giving ScoRo another cortisone shot, giving him a couple days off, and hoping for the boost of a few weeks ago?  I wasn't sure if that would be a realistic option or not.

by toris34 on Aug 14, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rolen's Shoulder
If his inflammation has returned and he is in pain, another shot would help, but I doubt they would do it until right before the playoffs as these shots aren't without risks (weakening and softening cartilage/ligaments) and he has already had several within the past year.

But I agree. This week may determine where we stand and a decision on Rolen should probably wait until we are clearly out of the race, which is not the case right now.

by googs77 on Aug 14, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know
how much Edmonds' comments had to do with a turnaround. Regression is a crazy thing.

Honestly, with that trio in the outfield, Juan should get significant playing time anyway. Hopefully the trickle down effect of a stronger bench makes this team even better down the stretch. I'd like it if he would just shut up and realize that he's basically a fourth outfielder regardless.

by plh903 on Aug 14, 2007 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

but regression doesn't happen
in a vaccuum. guys make physical adjustments --- they watch video, they figure out how pitchers are getting them out (or how batters are hitting them), and that's a large part of how regression takes place.

there are passive (ie, luck-related) factors involved in regression too --- but it is in part a dynamic process. it wouldn't happen if players just kept doing the same thing and waited for their luck to turn around.

i think some mental adjustments took place after may 13, along with some physical ones --- and that helped lead to better at-bats and better results. maybe there's been a similar attitude adjustment with the arrival of ankiel.

by lboros on Aug 14, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And here's to hoping that
we never figure out how to quantify those dynamic mental and physical adjustments the way we have quantified outcomes.  The day we do, we take all the emotion and, therefore, fun out of baseball.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 14, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that upwards regression
can come from players working to correct whatever it is they are doing. But, many times, luck is a serious factor that does just turn things around.

These guys also have the mentality of big leaguers (I think, anyway) and have all the self-interest in the world to try and turn things around. There is no such thing as a selfish higher OPS.

There was also the weather or something, IIRC, and the entire league hitting like shit. Pujols was hitting like Tino Martinez, etc.

Regression happens the other way too. I'm sure there are mechanisms for that, but for ever hitter that gets legitimately beat there's a pitcher who gets an out. Those pitchers regress, hitters regress.

A speech by Edmonds is not the obvious mechanism to me. (And I'm not saying that you are making it out to be the sole factor or anything either. Just sayin'.)

by plh903 on Aug 14, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

New outfield ideas.
How about this for our 2008 team?  What if we signed Zambrano and put him at first base when he isn't pitching?  We could move Pujols to left.  Then, we could trade Edmonds and Duncan to the small bruins for Marquis and put him in right field.  This would allow us to DFA En'cion.  Move Ankiel to center.  Wainright can play 3rd on HIS off days.  Maybe we could talk Maddux into coming over.  I think he could turn a great double play at 2nd base.  

Any ideas on who to put at shortstop?  I think Percival could catch.  He's definitely got the build for it.  I dunno if he can hit worth a s***, but since when did Tony want a catcher that could hit?

1b-Zambrano
2b-Maddux
3b-Wainer
ss-?
LF-Pujols (can't get rid of him.  maybe he can learn how to pitch)
CF-Ankiel
RF-Marquis
C- Percival

Hey, all these guys can hit, and if it worked for Ankiel........

The only problem may be that in a stroke of TOTAL lunacy (lauded by the press as a stroke of further LaRussa genius), Dave Duncan forces all of them to throw a 2-seam fastball even when they are on the field!

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Aug 14, 2007 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Thompson
Of course, WonderBrad the puppykicker will have to be the utility infielder/relief pitcher/spot starting replacement for Aaron Miles.
I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Aug 14, 2007 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

DUDE
If Thompson made an error the scoreboard could make barking sounds.   Or let puppies onto the field for him to chase.

But I digress.

by sdrone on Aug 14, 2007 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why didn't the Bears win the Super Bowl??
Because they used to be Cubs!

Heard that on the radio this morning and decided to share.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice one!
I'm pretty much a baseball-only sports fan, but I gotta say--I LOVED seeing the dejection on all the Bears/Cubs fans' faces last winter. It warmed the cockles of my heart.

Wow. Did I just write "cockles"? Yes, I did. Um, just go with it...y'all know what I mean ;-)

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a Bears fan ...
Moved to Chicago while STL had no team and adopted the crappy Bears as my team.  I was really hoping I could be in sports heaven and have both my teams win championships the same year.

Sadly it didn't happen but when the Cardinals won the WS, I told myself I wouldn't get worked up over sports for at least a year.  So I'm still just enjoying last year and hoping the Bears will have a good season again this year.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 14, 2007 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not trying to knock the Bears
I hope you realize this wasn't a knock on the Bears at all.  I am a Redskins fan since my dad is from DC and StL had no team at the time but my wife's family is from mid IL and Cards/Bears fans so I have sort of adopted them as well since I care very little for the NFL anyway.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah--
I only care about football in how upset it makes my Cubfan friends when the Bears lose. Sorry you're in that line of fire. I have heard tell, though, that St. Louis has a pretty decent football team--maybe you should look into that ;-)

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all know ...
that sports team allegiances don't work like that.  I haven't lived in Chicago for probably 4 years now and I'm still a Bears fan.

The only other option is to change sports fandom willy nilly and that's clearly not a sane option.  Once you've got a team you have to stick with them, those are the rules!

by dontEATnachos on Aug 14, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do
understand what you're getting at--I was just joshing. But y'know--if that were true--there wouldn't be any St.Louis Rams fans, only those left over from LA (who really would be all from Cleveland, since that's where the Rams started). Anyway, a good portion of the present-day Rams' fans had to have jumped ship from somewhere. Why not Chicago? My football knowledge is limited, but I do know that the St.Louis version of the Rams has won the same number of Superbowls as the Bears. It's not like you'd be switching sides to a worse franchise--in fact, since the St.Louis Rams did that in a mere 4 years of existence, I'd have to judge them as better. Again, I keed. Good luck to your Bears (at least they're not nicknamed the "Bearies").

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah but new fans are born
Some people in StL had no allegiances or like myself have only small ties to a team and for kids born in the 80s their high school days were when the Rams were at their best.  The problem is the Rams haven't really sucked too bad since then so some fans may turn out to be very fair weathered (as was seen last season).

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
I'm not saying you should keep rooting for a team if THEY move from your city.  And I'm not saying that if you are geographically distant from a city and a new team starts up closer to you that you shouldn't consider changing your affiliation to them.  Those, I would think, would be in the rules.

The thing I can't do is stop being a fan of a team because I move.  Plus, I always prefer to start rooting for a team when they aren't particularly good (see why I liked the Bears in the late 90's or the Nats the past 3 years) so that way you can watch their transformation.  And obviously there's nothing wrong with rooting for a local team when they aren't in conflict with your number 1.

This is all getting very complicated.  I suppose at some point I need to detail my rules of fandom somewhere since otherwise I might get confused.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 14, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

A ruling, please..
So, did I break the rules when I quit liking the Colts when they moved to Indy, starting rooting for their old-time rivals the Packers, then switched back to the Colts later?  I'm confused (obviously).

Geography and fandom are funny things.  Growing up in Arkansas during the 60's/70's meant two things... no "home" NFL team (when they were still in StL I rooted for the Cardinals), and you HAVE to root against any team from Texas.  Even to this day, although they are now owned by an Arkie, I can't stand the Cowboys.  (Conversely, the Oilers were OK,  at least as long a Bum was the coach.)

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 14, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting
Colts to Packers to Colts?  Weird enough as that is I can see why you would have been mad at the Colts and finally come back around for them.  So what do you think of the Oilers...err Titans now?

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are OK
Overall my NFL interest level has really dropped off over the last several years.  I usually don't pay much attention until the playoffs, then, if one of my perennial favorites is there (Colts, Packers, Broncos, Bills (ha,ha)) I'll pull for them, if not, I pick a deserving underdog, compelling story, etc.

My attraction to the Oilers was more the coach (and that neato song) than the team.  I always liked Bum because he didn't wear his hat inside the Astrodome. (Mama taught me you don't wear a hat inside the house.)

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 14, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep
This is make-or-break week for me, and probably for the team. If they emerge 4-3 or better, my hopes will be higher than they've been all season. If they come back 3-4 or worse, I'll be disappointed but not heartbroken. What would leave me really depressed is if they return home 5-2 or better and then proceed to give it all back during the FLA and ATL series'. That would be so 07 Birds-like. Whatever. The future is now. I love what I'm seeing lately, and best of all, their stock for 08 is rising. GO BIRDS!! At least put a tangible fear of failure in both the Crew and Cubs' heads and make them respect the BOB. That alone will make this season..., well, if not a success, at least worthy of our faith. That's all I ever ask for anyway. Back in June, I'd have laughed in your face if you'd told me they'd still be in the race come august.

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

I wanted to point out that
we all said this a few weeks ago when the Cubs/Brewers came to town (I'm not pointing fingers at you, just didn't want to make a top level item since a couple of people mentioned this).  

Can someone check the schedule to be sure there's nto some point 2 weeks from now when we'll be saying this?

by sdrone on Aug 14, 2007 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

True is true...
And there are 6 games with CHI and MIL in september. So yeah. It wouldn't surprise me if there's another round of this. The difference from the July series, I guess, is that the positioning in the standings regarding games left to play is so much more important with each passing week. By the september series, it'll either be a REALLY close race, we'll have a decent lead, or we'll be completely done. Hmmm. Guess you're right--it's a vicious cycle. Ah well, another round of this at least means another month of decent-enough baseball to have hope. That's saying something for this team.

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Possibly
If we keep our current pace of cutting a game or two off the pace then September 14th could mark the beginning of our last "this week means all" games.  Chicago for 3 at home, Philly for 3 at home, Houston for 4 at home then Mil for 3 in Mil followed by the end of the season with 3 at Pit.  If we are within 3-4 by that time it could be the make or break games again.  But this week could do one of three things 5-2 or better and we will close to the lead or in the lead, 3-4 or 4-3 and we stay about the same most likely and 2-5 or worse and we are as far out as the Stros are now so this week means a lot.  As for next series this is how the season pans out:

Road 3 Mil, 4 ChiC
Home 3 Fla, 3 Atl
Road 3 Hou
Home 3 Cin, 4 Pit
Road 3 Ari, 3 Cin
Home 3 ChiC, 3 Phi, 4 Hou
Road 3 Mil, 3 Pit

This road trip is the launching pad I think for a good home stand Fla is always tough but not doing hot and Atl is in a tight race, Ari may be our toughest competition left but we have to win every series from here on out or have the other two keep playing as bad as they have been which is unlikely to continue.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Numbers Game:
Doh, accidentally hit enter when not in text box,

If we assume that the Card's need to finish at ~.525, then that says that they need to go 31-16 for the remaining 47 games. That is a blistering .660 winning pct.
If everything comes together at the same time, well sure it's possible, but that necessary record leaves little room for error. It means that we can lose at most one or two series (which is scary with ATL, and PHI, not to mention MIL and CHC), it also means that we have to do some sweeping of our own, something we really haven't done all year (twice by my count...).
I'd love for the Card's to go on a tear, and become "that team" going to the playoffs, but 31-16... I don't know if the Cards have had 50 games that good in the last ten years, let alone this year...

by duncansarmy on Aug 14, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're
right, of course. BUT never forget the Cubs' propensity for failure--especially in september (Completely Useless By September didn't become an acronym by accident). We've all seen this movie before, and it always ends the same way (almost always, anyway). And the Crew is a young team that is cracking and may snap. Depending on those two, we may not have to play quite that well to sneak in and snag the title. I pretty much agree with you, but the tenacity of this team to avoid drowning and the inability of the other two to race off with a real lead leaves hope that even mediocrity, as long as it's consistent, could still win the day. Probably not, but this is still the most fun I've had all season. Here's to it continuing--if not to playoff victory, then at least to some exciting ballgames that matter.

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

UPDATE
quick update to my schedule above, the Saturday the 15th game is now a double header with the Cubs so that is now a 4 game set, also the off day between Mil and Pit is now a game against the Mets.  Make up for #32 and the "Rainout".

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah--
the "Josh" game. Forgot about that one. Thanks for the reminder.

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

not like I wanted too
It isn't that I really want to remember that day, he may not have been an "integral" part of the team, and he may have made a lot of mistakes but I still felt a huge punch in the gut that day.  I don't want to have to remember that game and I hope the Cards do recognize him during the makeup though I could see a reason to just leave it alone since the players are as over it as they will get this season and bringing it back up might not be the best thing for them emotionally.  Anyway you put it though there is only one thing to say RIP #32.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

That
--and "May they be victorious in memory of their fallen comrade."

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols attitude change
before the week of July 24-29 (Cubs and Brewers series:

Albert Pujols may have significant influence. He hit six home runs and had 10 RBIs on the trip. After hitting a game-changing home run in Sunday night's 10-inning victory, Pujols offered a less urgent perspective.

"I'll take (Monday) off and then I'll worry about it when I get to the ballpark" today, he said.

and he put up

.286 AVG
.823 OPS
3 2B
1 HR
11 RBI

a majority of which came in a breakout game against the Cubs (Jason Marquis).

I gave him crap for making that statement and subsequently struggling, especially in the game we lost 4-3 with Kippers on the mound.

Well, this week, a different attitude:

Cardinals manager Tony La Russa drafted a plan for days off for his regulars. One of them avoided any breather because he read something different in the schedule than an opportunity for a break.

Albert Pujols saw these 14 games as make-or-break.

"We're surprised that we are 5½ games (out). It could be worse," Pujols said.
[...]
Look at our record. It's not the best, but we're still in the mix and we haven't played the best baseball."

Well, atleast he seems a tad more focused on the importance of these games.  Maybe that will result in some better showing, offensivel.  If The Pu gets hot this week, who knows what kind of damage the Cardinals can do to 2 seriously struggling teams.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 14, 2007 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Albert is one guy who
really CAN just "turn it on" when he needs to.

His history shows that he is certainly capable of putting a huge one-man hurt on both Mil and Chi this week.  If Ank keeps up with the good karma and Little Dunc can dig out of his hole we can do some damage.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 14, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

vs. Capuano
He's hitting .560 with 3 HR.  Which would seem to indicate that he's got a good chance of heating up tonight.

Since Tony's pitcher-hitting-8th started (theoretically to get more people on for him), AP only has 3 RBI.  But the team is winning and the overall hitting hasn't been affected apparently, so let's keep it up!

by Cardinal70 on Aug 14, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i pointed out a few days ago
AP did two things in the highlights hes been critisized for...ran hard to first on a ball furcal bobbled...it payed off he made it...

waited at home for ludwick...

Hardcore i thought you were reading way to much into the comment but his lack of appearence in that series made ya wonder...

I agree with your main point he is a leader on this team and they need him to step up and do it..whatever facet(sp) that is.

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Aug 14, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Playing .660 ball
Granted (to steal a sig line from earlier this season) these aren't your 2004-2006 Cardinals, but in 2004 the played at .648 over the entire season.  http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp

Something else I noticed, this makes 5 of the last 6 seasons that we've exceded our expected   w-l record.  Not sure if it says that we've been clutch, if TlR has been better than we think, or if we just get killed in our losses.

by toris34 on Aug 14, 2007 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Jebus!!
Yeah I guess I kind of forgot how ridiculously good they did that season, I'm sure they played .660 ball for at least 50 games at some stretch. Ahh fond memories...

by duncansarmy on Aug 14, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

2004 Win Pattern
First 45 games - 23 W, 22 L (.511)
Next 91 games - 69 W, 22 L (.758)
Final 26 games - 13 W, 13 L (.500)
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Aug 14, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel as Re-Animator
I don't know how much to credit this to Ankiel or to the improved starting pitching, but I was at Saturday's game and the atmosphere was completely different from the last game I'd been to at the stadium.

The crowd was fired up on Saturday. Good to see curtain calls again. And it warmed my heart to see Ankiel tip his hat to the fans after we gave him a standing ovation for the rolling against the wall catch he made.

by liam on Aug 14, 2007 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

En'cion
MikeJ over at Future Redbirds made an interesting comment.  

The consensus for us as amateur GM's seems to be that we should drop/trade En'cion and let Eckstein walk as a FA.  That would open holes up for Ryan and Ankiel to prove themselves as major-league ready players.  That move should save us about $11 million next year.  

What should we do with the money, assuming Mr. DeWitt doesn't cry poor and pocket the money to make a profit?

Where are our holes?  SP, obviously.  Depending on Mulder's performance post-surgery, we will have a full stable of average to below-average starters.  So, the only help we need is at the front of the rotation.  Will $11 million get Zambrano?  I doubt it.  Do we look for a replacement for Kennedy?  Do we look for a CF and move Edmonds to the super-sub role mentioned earlier.  

IMO, I like the last option.  We could move Ank to center, keep Schumaker up for insurance purposes, and look for a corner outfielder.  Edmonds would be assured to get 350-400 PA's in Tony's outfield rotation anyway.  Plus, outfield help (especially at the corner) is usually easier to find than a good, durable starting pitcher or a middle-infielder that can rake.

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Aug 14, 2007 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Roto world
is repoting that Enc is "cleared to play." Wonder if Tony gives a damn?

by rockin redbird on Aug 14, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

2008 Free Agents
MLB Trade rumors has a list of 2008 free agents.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/03/2008_mlb_free_a.html

Sorry, but I suck at hyperlinks.

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Aug 14, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not
a 1 year comeback contract for the struggling Andruw  Jones?

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If
we could get a 1 year contract for an OF I might be alright with a signing like that, but look at the market. Jones will get at least 3 years for way too much money; he's been one of the most overrated players for a few years now.

Why overpay for something that might not pan out and might not even be better than what we have.. Rasmus is due 2009. Lets go after something that is worth the money... Get Albert in a room and let him know we're upping the payroll and throwing $27 mil at Alex Rodriguez.

Zambrano is the only pitcher I could get excited about, and he'll be overpaid too (unless he returns to the Cubs for a discount).

I don't want a Carlos Lee/Alfonso Soriano/Jason Schmidt/Barry Zito contract. Please. Not on my team.

by TICY on Aug 14, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boras
client is all the more reason to believe that Jones might be open to a one year deal.

Does it make sense to lock himself into a 3 or 4 year deal coming off of this season? No.

It makes far more sense to sign a 1 year deal and play 2008 for a big long term (6 year?) extension based on a solid 30 to 40 hr season. The only reason to think that the Cards don't have a shot is that if I were Boras, I would steer Jones to some offensive haven like Texas for a 1 year deal.

by JMedwick on Aug 14, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh.......
this year won't effect Andruw's contract too much. He has Boras as his agent after all. Andruw will get 5-6 years for 15 per.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 14, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't be so sure ...
Andruw is in serious decline, and free agent CFs include:

Andruw Jones (31)
Torii Hunter (32)
Corey Patterson (28)
Milton Bradley (30)
Aaron Rowand (30)
Mike Cameron (35)
Kenny Lofton (41)

Boras got Weaver a big contract, but folks may have noticed what a bargain that wasn't.

by madridbend on Aug 14, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

because the team already has...
...an expensive, declining CF and an excess of OFs.

by willievinceterry on Aug 14, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

<shaking his head>
It's amazing how much money aces cost these days.  You have to grow your own, or at any rate you do if you spend money in DeWitt/Jocketty-type quantities.  Will it be Wainwright, Reyes, or one of the sprouts down on the farm?

by lordsummer on Aug 14, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Matt Clement
Why not take a look at him for next year?  Surely he has to be ready to start throwing soon.  He did dominate most of the National League not so long ago and he is relatively young. Or are we done with reclamation projects?

by boredatwork on Aug 14, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cardinals vs Madden 08......
Quite the conundrum tonight. I can watch the Cardinals play the first game of the most important road trip of the season, or I can play the greatness that will be Madden 08 all night. Woe is me.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 14, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

2 tvs?
You don't have two TVs?  Or put the game on the radio with a computer updating gameday?

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have two TV's but not in the same room...
But the radio is a good idea, I didnt think of that.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 14, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh
The best nights of my life were spent playing Madden while listening to the Cardinals on the radio.

Don't tell my wife.

"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Aug 14, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lineup Already Up - No Enc
Per Yahoo:

D. Eckstein ss  
R. Ankiel rf  
A. Pujols 1b  
R. Ludwick lf  
S. Rolen 3b  
J. Edmonds cf  
Y. Molina c  
K. Wells p  
B. Ryan 2b

by OCCardsFan on Aug 14, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Not playing him against the lefty 2 games in a row
Enc is seriously in the doghouse.  He may even be in some sort of dirty, smelly annex to the doghouse.

Comparing his numbers vs. left-handed pitching to those of Edmonds and Ludwick, and considering what Enc has done since July 1, it doesn't make any rational sense -- but I'll accept that the best lineups are not necessarily based on reason . . .

by tdawg on Aug 14, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enc
When was the last time TLR started a lefty (especially Edmonds) against a lefty?  Encarnacion is farther in the doghouse than anyone in a long while, I believe.

by Cardinal70 on Aug 14, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kind of interesting...
considering his numbers against Capuano:

Player    AB    H    HR    BB    SO    AVG
Pujols    25    14    3    5    3    .560
Eckstein    19    7    0    3    2    .368
Encarnacion    20    7    2    2    4    .350

by silent_bob on Aug 14, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols First to Third
Nice Albert.  Been seeing that Albert's been getting something resembling a mild ribbing for not running every ball out.  True, he doesn't run out ground balls on the infield.  But...he is truly great at going first to third. More generally, he knows when to hustle and get the extra base.
"Well, no one's perfect. Only one guy was ever perfect, Jack, and they nailed him to a tree!"

by lightbulb on Aug 14, 2007 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

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