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Game 85 Open Thread: July 8, 2007

baked zito

wellemeyer

6-8, 4.65

2-2, 6.37

GAME TIME 1:15 CDT

Thankfully, the Cardinals didn't spend $126 million on the guy starting for the Giants today. Yikes. And when will they get rid of that hideous blue background behind Wellemeyer?

According to the PECOTA version of the postseason odds at Baseball Prospectus, the Cards have less then a 2% shot at making the playoffs. While the recent mini-revival has been fun, the Brewers still look like the team to beat. Unless they suffer a pretty drastic meltdown, they should walk away with this division rather handily. Going back to BP's postseason odds, the Brew Crew has an 85% chance of doing just that. You and I may not like to hear it, and obviously computers don't hand out pennants, but the odds are pretty well stacked against the Card's favor. If things are still where they are at in the next few weeks, it's time to fold. Just for the sake speculation, here's a few goofy trade ideas I'd like to float:

  • Try to trade Juan Encarnacion to the Marlins. Just weeks ago, the Fish were trying to reel in Jacque Jones from the Cubs only to watch Selig put the kabosh on the deal due to the ownership situation in Chicago. The Marlins are already familiar with JuanCar and he has to be an upgrade over Alfredo Amezaga. While he's certainly been clutch this year, the Cards should try and loose themselves from as much of that $6.5 mil owed on his contract for '08 as possible.
  • Trade David Eckstein to the Cubs. The Cubs have received a total of 2 win shares out of the Cesar Izturis/Ryan Theriot duo at short. However, they also have Ronny Cedeno suddenly remembering how to hit in AAA, so they may not see the need but I wouldn't put anything past Jim Hendry. As much is it would pain me to see the World Series MVP in Cubbie blue, I just don't see a reason to bring him back next year. I'd sooner see Brendan Ryan get the opportunity and get a half decent prospect out of the deal.
  • Trade Jason Isringhausen the Phillies. Izzy turns 35 this September and you wonder how long his reconstructed hip will hold up. He's certainly been one of the best stories of the season but he also should hold the most potential trade value. The Phillies are in well in the race in the NL East but are trusting Antonio Alfonseca to be their closer. Yeesh. It may be smarter to hold on to Izzy and pick up his option for '08, when the team should have a better shot at contending assuming Carpenter and Mulder will be healthy.

OK, so that probably was an exercise in futility. Jocketty has openly stated the Cards will be buyers, not a sellers come the deadline. But with all the rumors we're hearing about his departure and given the fact that the team may be too far out by the time the next three weeks transpire, a change in the usual strategy could be in order.

Oh, and for Aaron Miles...you can't possibly have a worse game then that, while his mistakes in the field are pretty defenseless, you can't help but to feel bad for the guy. They really need to put Ryan at short and Kennedy on the bench.

Don't forget, the Futures Game is on at 3. As most of you know, Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson will be involved. I believe the broadcast is free, not sure where. If you know, drop it in the comments.

Update [2007-7-8 15:58:30 by erik]: Just in case anyone is interested, I have a game thread over at future redbirds for the futures game.

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Futures Game
is Sunday, July 8th (today) at 3 p.m. CST on ESPN 2

by ChadEliot on Jul 8, 2007 1:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Miles
I second that. Bout time TLR realized he is playing out of position. If there wasn't anyone else to play SS, he is an adequate fill-in but that's it.

As far as the trades go, I wouldn't doubt that Izzy could be gone at  the deadline if the Cards are out of it. Seems the Tigers would be a good fit, given the Maroth deal and Leyland's familiarity with St. Louis. Somebody like Izzy in their bullpen would solidify it come the postseason.

Juan is just Juan, and that isn't a good thing, especially for a young team like Florida. Unless some team like the Mets are struggling to stay healthy, Juan will be the starting Cardinals RF next spring. Now with all the Buerhle news, however, a possible New York/St. Louis trade could work if the Mets first trade for MB.

Package Izzy and Juan together? There has to be a few good prospects left for Walt to pick from.  

When I open my eyes this whole season will be a dream...

by gforce on Jul 8, 2007 2:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Buerhle
MB signed with the southsiders for 4/56 club option for 2010.  With incentives, could be 5/75.  All that for an avg. pitcher, IMO.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Jul 8, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

average?
he's 28, left-handed, has over 100 career wins so far and has a career ERA (all of it in the AL, btw) of 3.77

Comparing average ERAs from NL to AL over the last 15 years, there's an approximate .4 difference between NL/AL, so you can roughly translate that to 3.37 if he had pitched in the NL.

He's also thrown 200+ innings every year of his career as a starter. (His rookie year he was in 28 games, only 3 starts)

His resume so far is better than Mark Mulder's was when he came to St. Louis, and we all talk about Mulder as being a potential ace if he could come back 100% healthy.

by mtalken on Jul 8, 2007 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didnt Tony...
Just say Miles will be used as a 2nd baseman like a day ago?

No wonder he is messed up ;-)

by jealousblues on Jul 8, 2007 2:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Felix Hernandez and the USS Mariner
The guys over at USS Mariner apparently received some credit for helping King Felix toss a two hit shutout against the A's.

Read it here

FTA:  "After the game, Hernandez gave credit to the so-called "Open Letter to Rafael Chaves" that the folks at USS Mariner wrote last week as a reason he mixed his pitches up so effectively in the early innings."

Maybe Duncan will start reading VEB to learn what's wrong with Reyes...

by Phyrkrakr on Jul 8, 2007 3:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Marlins/Jacque Jones/JuanEnc
The reason the Jacque Jones trade was nixed was because the Cubs were going to swallow 90% of Jones contract just to get him off the team, i'd rather just keep Juan Enc rather than swallow that much of a contract, that will save us like 600k, next to nothing in todays world of baseball.

by lopey986 on Jul 8, 2007 4:04 AM EDT reply actions  

good fit
i really think izzy to the philly is a good fit...the phils are in the race...built to win now...have been looking for bullpen help...and who knows we might just be able to pry something pretty good out of gm pat gillick considering he may be out of a job should the phils fail to make the playoffs
grow back the beard adam...it couldn't hurt

by intimidator45 on Jul 8, 2007 5:01 AM EDT reply actions  

any trade that get's Juan off the Cards roster,
I am for. I don't care what we get for him, just dump his salary and get rid of him.

and unless we can get Big Z, or the next Lou Brock from the flubs, I'd stay away from any trades involving the north side losers. it just makes sence to me.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 8, 2007 6:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Broadcast is free
From 7/1 - 7/14

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/gameday_audio.jsp?c_id=mlb

No login or other phishy stuff required.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 7:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Coffee First
Then Post

Order is important.

MLB.com will broadcast, via BaseballChannel.TV , the Futures Pregame Show at 3 p.m. ET, then stream ESPN's coverage of the game at 4 p.m. ET, with bonus and exclusive coverage during the breaks in the action.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I must be in the minority,
But JuanE is the only player that the Cards have that seems to get a clutch hit this year, with the exception of maybe Duncan.  Albert has hit into almost as many DP's this year (14) as he has homeruns (16), and we've gone over the trials and tribulations of Jimmy and Scott Rolen all season.  Unless they're going to let Ankiel audition full time in the second half (which I don't see happening), I say keep him around.  It's not a lot of salary to dump, anyways.

As for Eckstein going to the Cubs...what has he done to make you that mad at him?  :)

Is this Heaven? No, It's Iowa. I could've sworn this was Heaven.

by TedGlover on Jul 8, 2007 9:15 AM EDT reply actions  

clutch
fangraphs has a measurement, albert is 3rd in the league with a clutch score of 1.25. juan has a 1.16 clutch. dunc is 3rd on the team with .48. so actually albert has been clutch, just not yesterday. while juan has been clutch, you gotta acknowledge that that is more luck then skill. ask yourself: who would you sooner trust with the game on the line, the guy with the 1.022 OPS for his career then the .757 hitter?. and if the season is probably shot, why not trade him? just for the fun watching the cards finish 3rd? i'd sooner call up ankiel, shoddy plate discipline or no. he can hopefully learn at the big league level to take walks here about as well down there.

by erik on Jul 8, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Clutch is basically luck
especially in the relatively few ABs Juan, or anyone else, has had in them.  

The reason to trade Juan is to get rid of next year's salary, or as much of it as possible, and see what we can do w/ that position -- Ankiel, Stavinoha, whatever.  

So, yeah, trading him's the way to go, if possible.  I'd be surprised if the Fish want him, however.  They've already dumped him twice.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Juan E.
The reason I don't want Juan E traded is I have no idea who will play center next year if Edmonds totally breaks down. Rasmus won't be ready and I don't see any other options besides free agency (and so help me god if their first big FA signing in years is Torii Hunter then I'm going to be pissed).

I'm not sure why everyone wants to dump Juan for $.10 on the dollar. The fact alone that he can play CF seems to make him have some value. I'd definitely keep him and assume the combination of Jim/Juan is the transition stage to Rasmus.

But I'm probably alone on that one...

by themang on Jul 8, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel's been playing center in Memphis, I think
but yeah.  Having Enc on the roster so that we're at least guaranteed to have one decent CF for next season seems prudent.  

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly
I'm rooting for Ankiel, but there's a strong chance he'll never work out. Therefore, the Cards need Juan in that reserve CF role. If Ankiel does well, then they can try to trade Juan next year and I'd be all for it.

by themang on Jul 8, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

jeepers!
you guys blithefully say that Juan "can play CF."

Have you SEEN him out there?

Anybody can have CF after their name in the line-up card... that doesn't mean he can "play" the position.

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow
You really think he's that bad? What are the other options for next year beside Edmonds & Ankiel?

Man...I just don't understand the extreme Juan hatred.

by themang on Jul 8, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

And make no mistake
Ankiel can play CF.  I saw him play CF in a game against Round Rock.  He almost made a diving catch similar to the one Edmonds made vs. Ausmus in Game 7 of the NLCS.  The ball popped out as his glove or his elbow hit the ground.  Then, he ran down a ball that was crushed to the warning track in left-center -- caught the ball in stride as if he'd been doing it all his life.  

He's definitely got the ability to play CF.  I'm not sure he's ready to hit at the major league level, but I'd be willing to bet that he'd be as good in CF as anyone we have on the roster -- Edmonds included.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Izzy
Isn't Izzy a 10 and 5 guy?  meaning no-trade?

by Irishman on Jul 8, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Erik.....
We are on the same page, but I rather than the Phillies, I would like to see the Cards trade Izzy to the Indians.  The Indians have the same closer problem, in that Joe Bo allows a ton of base runners then seems to pitch out of the jam. Now that the White Sox and the Red Sox have their rings, the Indians are next in longest AL team without a ring.  

I would target Marte, who has gone from uber-prospect to out of favor with the club.  Blake has hit and played a passable 3B, so they may be willing to move him.  They also have a glut of OFers.  

The Phillies farm system is kind of thin, so I would have trouble finding something there.  Unless you think they might move  Pat Burrell.  

by Brock20 on Jul 8, 2007 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Just say NO to Pat Burrell
Living in the Philadelphia area, I have watched a lot of "Pat the Bat" and I want no part of him wearing the Birds on the Bat.  He makes a ton of money but the Phillies don't even play him regularly.  

As far as the Phillies prospects go, there aren't many and most are at A level.  I can't see the Cards trading him for low level talent, and I can't see Izzy agreeing to go there.  If he did not like the booing he got last year in STL, then he will hate the atmosphere in Philly.  

by stlfaninpa on Jul 8, 2007 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Indians
Asdrubal Cabrera, the young shortstop in double AA.   Seattle mishandled him horribly, but he's putting pretty good numbers up in double A.   He could be available with Peralta having a pretty good year.  He would be a great target for the cardinals to trade for with the Indians

by Hammondsbird on Jul 8, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you imagine TLR
turning over responsibility for SHORTSTOP to a rookie?  I'm having a hard time suspending disbelief about that.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 8, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Izzy

Yes, hes has 10/5 no trade and yes....an interesting situation

Given Izzy's performance, the Cards likely out of contention and the closer needs of contenders like Clev and Philly, Izzy is a likely and interesting trade discussion........especially given his age, medical history and Stl need to get younger.

On the other hand,

  • He has a relatively inexpensive option for 08, especially compared to other free agent options
  • Cards have no ready replacement
  • Izzy likely would want to finish his career in Stl
Look for number 44 to stay in Stl

by Hinkster on Jul 8, 2007 11:04 AM EDT reply actions  

There's a lot of talk about
whether the Cards' season is over already.  Perhaps Lboros could tap into the wisdom of crowds to determine when that point occurs?  I'm suggesting a weekly poll, starting this week, of VEB readers, with a threshhold TBD as to when the point of no return occurs?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 8, 2007 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Carp making a rehab start today
At Palm Beach.  
Free audio link

Game time is 1:00 PM if you want to hear Carp before sliding over to the Futures game (at 3PM, ESPN2).

by Phyrkrakr on Jul 8, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I always forget
that Sunday games are 1:00 PM.  Might be something worth listening to if Zito comes out looking like Koufax.

by Phyrkrakr on Jul 8, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carp's Line Today:
3IP, 2H, 0R, 1BB, 2K.  No word on pitch count, etc.

by Phyrkrakr on Jul 8, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you imagine how terrifying it is
to be some single A guy and have to deal with a Cy Young caliber pitcher?

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

39 Pitches
According to Rotoworld

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

wellemeyer
in today's post-dispatch, wellemeyer said this about pitching to bonds: "...I'm going to try to treat him like you would any hitter--play to my strengths, not worry about his."

In that case, we may see 752,753, and 754 in the first five innings today.

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 8, 2007 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Trades...
Erik:
I like all of your trade ideas.  Lets hope the Cardinals brass comes to their senses and deals in a sellers' market.  
The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 8, 2007 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

lineups
sf

roberts cf
vizquel ss
durham 2b
incredible hulk lf
klesko 1b
lewis rf
feliz 3b
rodriguez c
zito p

cards

ryan (cool) ss
ludwick cf
21 game homerless streak 1b
hardcore's favorite cleanup hitter rf
scoro 3b
C-dunc lf
sno cones c
evil eck (i need a day off) 2b
wellemeyer p

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 8, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Good to see
Miles back in there.  Get right back on the horse!

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess
At least he's not playing out of position today.  Dunno if that helps his 0-15 streak he's having at the plate though.

When role players have to play every day, bad things happen. It's great that they are there to fill in during an emergency, but the daily grind will expose WHY they aren't every day players.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely right
too bad Kennedy has been so unbelievably awful!

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a heads up....
3 PM on ESPN 2, the futures game is on. Rasmus and Anderson will be playing in it.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 8, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Duncan
How about Duncan in the #3 spot?  Anybody with me on this?  Maybe it shakes Pujols tree that he isn't getting the job done lately and needs to step up.  At worse, I think we'll see less double plays from the #3 spot.. Maybe some more k's, but less weak ground balls. If Duncan hits it, he generaly hits it HARD.

Time to see how good these guys are at sitting back and connecting with huge looping breaking balls.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I've liked that idea
for a while now.  It might help Pooh get off his singles-only dime.  It harkens back to when the only power we had was Jack Clark, and I'm pretty sure HE hit in the 4-hole.
And while Duncan is not the prototypical 3-hole hitter (too many K's) he does run better than Albert.
And -- for the 3-hole-- who else is there??

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

While it's good
to see the Cards fight back each of the last 2 nights, to me there's almost nothing more depressing than watching a team lose b/c of its defense.  We've done that each of the last 2 nights -- and 3 losses as Erik correctly points out.  Yuck!  1 play by Taguchi costs us the game two nights ago and Miles just completely implodes last night.  It's one thing to not hit -- and we can't -- but it's another to watch the team play like AA players.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd be very shocked
barring some major setback, if Carp doesn't start a game next weekend for the St. Louis Cardinals.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

when I read your post, eric...
I felt like I was in church, or that you had cracked my head open and read my mind.
I admit that my assent to your trade ideas is more emotional than sensible, but the biggest clump in my heart re this year's Cardinal team is, from day 1, my two bete noires: Juan and Izzy.
Not a day has gone by all season that I don't pray they are gone.

It was an existential dilemma for me the other day, when we won an important game... in which Juan hit a three-run homer and Interestinghausen got the save.  My joy in the victory was seriously muted.

Re. Eck, it goes the other way, for me.  I'm too emotionally attached to him to bear it, especially NOT to the Cubs.  BUT... I want him to start playing 2b.  Moreover my 'solution' to the middle infield, for now, is to ditch Kennedy somehow and acquire Juan Castro from the Reds (as a back-up).

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Tear enducing stat line of the series
Cardinals Pitching: 5 ER (0-2)
Giants Pitching: 9 ER (2-0)
Cardinals position players: 6 ER

We'd be going for the sweep if we could get out of our own way.

Footage from 1987 NLCS: Is that a Cardinals team hitting against a lefty?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Carp through 3
2 hits, 1 BB, 2 K, 0 runs.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Keys to today's game:
  1. Catch the ball.
  2. Throw the ball to your team mate in such a way that 1. is possible.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Aaron Miles
hey Aaron, on the force play...ya wanna get CLOSER to Ryan instead of stretching to the furthest part of the bag?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

HA HA Zito sucks!
Enjoy the rest of that contract. Only $100m more to pay off!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Jul 8, 2007 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

someone other than TLR
must have filled out the lineup card today, because Duncan is actually batting against a lefty... and no soul-sucking Kennedy.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 8, 2007 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Carp finished
He threw 3 IP, 2 H, 1 BB, 2 K, no runs

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions  

the middle infielders
are going to get him hurt one of these days.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 8, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

El Hombre
Looking like a matodor.

Ole, you're out!

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zito
must really be baked today.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 8, 2007 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I have to think that next years FA pitchers are
going to make less than this years' did, considering that every contract handed out this offseason was a fiasco.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

there almost always is a
market correction.  Not sure if it'll happen this offseason b/c there are a lot of goo free agents.  Maybe after next season.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems to me that
more free agents means more supply, and therefore lower prices across the board. I think the reason for the inflated prices in the last few off-seasons had to do with only a few guys who were any good and  desperate teams overpaying to get them.

by ZiggyG on Jul 8, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

High Heat
Gets Albert, Juan and now Barry!

whew.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Bonds 0, Wellemeyer 2
Got the K, but I think he did so because he missed location bad.  Bennet was set up middle in, and the pitch was outside and high.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Because he missed location bad
why, does Barry have Sal Yvars out in the CF clubhouse?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

despite his numbers,
Zito's curve is still a thing of beauty.
On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 8, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Pujols in HR Derby?
Sure, why not?  His HR swing can't get any worse.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

HR Derby winner
vs

Not being injured for 2nd half.

My vote is "skip the meaningless HR derby".

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I vote
with you - no derby for Albert.  He needs to rest.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The real question is
if Albert will walk over to the rest of the players after every hit to chat it up and not pay attention to what is going on.

I don't think he'd know what do after getting a hit with no one to talk to.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Giants
want the Cards to feel better about their fielding, so that's why the outfielders let that ball drop.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Zito
must want to establish his dominance in walking batters...

C'mon guys, the ducks are on the pond!

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Today
Zito ruled in the "walking batters" department.  He walked four, even Big Z (our favorite crazy pitcher) only walked three today.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here Comes Dunk
Bases juiced, 0 outs.  A grand slam sure would make it feel like Sunday.

by stl tyler on Jul 8, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

boo yaaa baby dunc!!
Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Jul 8, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey!
We are over the halfway mark to 10 runs - it's Sunday, people!

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought Zito was a Lefty?
What's up Larussa?  What will it take to convince you Duncan should be in the lineup EVERY DAY?!!?

by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Zito's a different case
lefties have always hit him better because (I think-- like Jamie Moyer) he lives and dies by his change.
Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Jul 8, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

But
Moyer soft tossed us to death.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I was there
Zito's a soft tosser too.
Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Jul 8, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a bargain!
only 1.5 M per pitch.

126M / 84 pitches.

Ach - vee'll make it up in volume!

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

yep, it's Sunday
just came in from yard work to see the Cards up 6-0

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

if anyone is interested, over at FR i have a
game thread for the futures game....http://futureredbirds.com/2007/07/08/futures-game-2007-game-thread/

by erik on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Freaky Sunday
Pirates had the EXACT same situation (Bases juiced, 0 outs), and Bay hit a double just like Duncan at about the same time.. Weird.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

bay is having a big day
it seems... as is ryan zimmerman.  Go, nats!  
Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jul 8, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cool
And now it is 6-2 Pirates and 7-2 Nats.  This is a good day to win!

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why did Wellemeyer come out?
He was only at 80 pitches and he was still pitching well.

by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Situations
like that make me glad that we have gold glovers on the corners.

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Cubs lose!
And Brewers are still down 7-2, going into the bottom of the eighth.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

A few Zito favorites from the Giants blog
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
Is 12:46pm too early to start drinking?

Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
i start drinking the night before zito pitches

********
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
Dear Barry Zito,

You suck.

Love, everybody.
*
********

Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
we could put a positive spin to this and donate a dollar to charity for every walk and hit and run zito gives up. then zito could match our donations.

Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
although at this rate i dont think we paid him enough to cover all those donations
*
********

Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
I think it's time for Zito to skip a start.  Maybe two.

Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
maybe 7 years.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 8, 2007 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

It seems
that Giants fans are not thrilled w/ the Zito deal (to say the least).  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This one made me grin
Fail

Just a strange picture. Kind of an evil grin.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NL Central
Suddenly a deep and dangerous division.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.
Houston took two of three from the Phillies and are on the verge of splitting their series w/ the Mets.  Look out for the Central!

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deep and dangerous
may be stretching it a bit. Mediocre would be a more apt description.
"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 8, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess
that we wore the D-backs down for the Reds.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Zito...
...but it has to hurt to see him outpitched by a KC Royals castoff reliever. About as much as it hurts to lose the season series to these Giants 4-1 (if this lead holds up, knock on wood).

by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Roberts' flyout got me
thinking of a useless trivia question: has anybody ever played for all five California teams in a single career?  Roberts now has all the NL ones covered...

by jfs on Jul 8, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Roberts is
competing with Miles.

One more to go, and also not in the same inning.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Juan legs out a double...
...but will get criticized for not making third.

by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Juan would get
criticized for saving someone's life....
"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 8, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

More than likely
if he is saving someone's life, he killed 2 other people earlier in the day and kicked 4 puppies.

You have to take the good with the bad with Juan.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nats win 7-2
so a game will be picked up today.

Still, losing 2 of 3 to the Giants is disappointing...

by Petkovsek on Jul 8, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

It is disappointing,
but here's to ending the first half with a win.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most disappointing
Is that we pitched and hit well enough to sweep 'em. The defense blew two games for us, So on Friday and Miles yesterday.

Losing games due to bad defense is infuriating as all get out.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true
Especially since this club is capable of so much better defensive play than they have shown at times this year.  

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Lil' Dunc is on pace for
32 HR and 90-plus RBIs, in less than 500 ABs.  Explain to me again why he isn't playing every day?

If I owned the Cardinals I wouldn't be George Steinbrenner by any means, but I would be riding TLR's ass about this without mercy.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 8, 2007 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

This is unfair
Cards game on FSMW.
Futures game on the deuce.
Band of Brothers marathon on History Channel.

Good thing it's too hot to go outside. With I had more TV's.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

That's only
three things at once.

Become One with your Remote Control.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watch the...
Cards game now.  Watch the BoB on DVD and watch the future's game in a few years..

by outraged on Jul 8, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went with
Shannon and Rooney on the porch while smoking my ribs and History Channel while cooling off in the living room.

I own Band of Brothers on DVD, but I still get suckered into it every time it's on the HC. Stupid US military feeling of family of ours.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 8, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steve Kline!
How's it been, ol' friend?

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

So, like
the Cardinals would totally be breathing down the BeerMakers necks if, we like, ya know..didn't give away like 6 games already this season.

I remember Larry's post about that earlier this year.  I think you can certainly add Friday and Saturday to that list.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

the difference between good and bad.
 
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jul 8, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that's a winner.
40-45 at the AS break.

by Petkovsek on Jul 8, 2007 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

the Yankees have
an ML pitcher named Chamberlain, native American...
he looks a lot like Anthony Reyes, flat bill and all.

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Steve Phillips jinx
he's saying good things about Bryan Anderson

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

i've already mentioned it up top
but i threw up a game thread at future redbirds for the futures game. http://futureredbirds.com/2007/07/08/futures-game-2007-game-thread/#comment-3470

by erik on Jul 8, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take Some Pepto
and hope you feel better after throwing up.

by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

on the plus side
Anderson's bio says both his parents were born and raised in St. Louis, even tho' he is a California boy.

by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phillies
Just took the lead. It'd be nice for the Cards to hand them their 10,000th loss in Phillie just after the break.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Good for him
and for us.  Now we can put to rest all the Buehrle to the Cards stuff.

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

no kidding
that talk was SO old&busted. i'm glad it's over. besides, we don't any one who choses the windy over the LOU. no real home town boy would EVER chose chi town over the STL. they can keep him. expect a back lash from the STL now that he's chosen the white sox over his "home town" Cardinals.

nice win today. too bad i was up all night with dad and passed out on the couch from lack of sleep and missed it. at least they ended the first half with a win. good to see Tony started Dunk with a lefty on the mound. he better have him in the line up every day from now on. this setting him vs lefty startes, and pinch hitting him late in games vs lefty's HAS to stop.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 8, 2007 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buerhle deal means maybe one of these gusy move?
Wouldnt mind Vasquez, his record isnt that great, but his era and walks isnt to shabby..if ya can get him cheap why not...I wouldnt mind having garland either. Not sure where theyd fit, but if ya could get one cheap then why not...I'd heard they might move graland.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6396
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7043/career;_ylt=AoHz0xu3dcpVrGp_Cgo_oaqFCLcF
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5947

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Glad to hear
That Wellemeyer is happy enough with the decision:
Wellemeyer didn't seem to mind much. He assumed he'd be back in relief eventually, with ace Chris Carpenter making his second rehab start on Sunday and Mark Mulder slowly gearing up for a return. The Cardinals had also considered moving Thompson back to the bullpen.

"I knew I was going to end up in the bullpen eventually," said Wellemeyer, a waiver wire pickup from the Royals in mid-May. "I've got my confidence up and it should be an interesting second half."

That from the article.

by liam on Jul 8, 2007 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe I'm in the minority based on a few comments
I've seen on this thread and in Hardcore's rotation diary, but I'd rather see Wellemeyer and Wells stay where they are for the immediate future. They both seem to be doing fairly well - obviously Wells has been very good since he went to the bullpen, and Wellemeyer isn't setting the world on fire but he keeps us in games and doesn't give up many big innings. It would be nice if he went a little deeper into games, but will Wells be an improvement?

Maybe I've just got too many bad memories of Wells' starts. He's obviously pitching different out of the bullpen, but I'm not at all convinced that will translate to his starts.

Speaking of our bullpen, did you see the ERAs we threw at SF today? 1.42, 1.59, 1.23, and 1.53 for Cate, Percival, Franklin, and Izzy. I know Cate and Percival especially are small sample sizes, but those are fun numbers to see. Throw in Spiezio's 0 ERA and BAA, and that's a pretty solid bullpen!

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 8, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions  

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