Game 85 Open Thread: July 8, 2007
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6-8, 4.65 |
2-2, 6.37 |
GAME TIME 1:15 CDT
Thankfully, the Cardinals didn't spend $126 million on the guy starting for the Giants today. Yikes. And when will they get rid of that hideous blue background behind Wellemeyer?
According to the PECOTA version of the postseason odds at Baseball Prospectus, the Cards have less then a 2% shot at making the playoffs. While the recent mini-revival has been fun, the Brewers still look like the team to beat. Unless they suffer a pretty drastic meltdown, they should walk away with this division rather handily. Going back to BP's postseason odds, the Brew Crew has an 85% chance of doing just that. You and I may not like to hear it, and obviously computers don't hand out pennants, but the odds are pretty well stacked against the Card's favor. If things are still where they are at in the next few weeks, it's time to fold. Just for the sake speculation, here's a few goofy trade ideas I'd like to float:
- Try to trade Juan Encarnacion to the Marlins. Just weeks ago, the Fish were trying to reel in Jacque Jones from the Cubs only to watch Selig put the kabosh on the deal due to the ownership situation in Chicago. The Marlins are already familiar with JuanCar and he has to be an upgrade over Alfredo Amezaga. While he's certainly been clutch this year, the Cards should try and loose themselves from as much of that $6.5 mil owed on his contract for '08 as possible.
- Trade David Eckstein to the Cubs. The Cubs have received a total of 2 win shares out of the Cesar Izturis/Ryan Theriot duo at short. However, they also have Ronny Cedeno suddenly remembering how to hit in AAA, so they may not see the need but I wouldn't put anything past Jim Hendry. As much is it would pain me to see the World Series MVP in Cubbie blue, I just don't see a reason to bring him back next year. I'd sooner see Brendan Ryan get the opportunity and get a half decent prospect out of the deal.
- Trade Jason Isringhausen the Phillies. Izzy turns 35 this September and you wonder how long his reconstructed hip will hold up. He's certainly been one of the best stories of the season but he also should hold the most potential trade value. The Phillies are in well in the race in the NL East but are trusting Antonio Alfonseca to be their closer. Yeesh. It may be smarter to hold on to Izzy and pick up his option for '08, when the team should have a better shot at contending assuming Carpenter and Mulder will be healthy.
OK, so that probably was an exercise in futility. Jocketty has openly stated the Cards will be buyers, not a sellers come the deadline. But with all the rumors we're hearing about his departure and given the fact that the team may be too far out by the time the next three weeks transpire, a change in the usual strategy could be in order.
Oh, and for Aaron Miles...you can't possibly have a worse game then that, while his mistakes in the field are pretty defenseless, you can't help but to feel bad for the guy. They really need to put Ryan at short and Kennedy on the bench.
Don't forget, the Futures Game is on at 3. As most of you know, Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson will be involved. I believe the broadcast is free, not sure where. If you know, drop it in the comments.
Update [2007-7-8 15:58:30 by erik]: Just in case anyone is interested, I have a game thread over at future redbirds for the futures game.
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Comments
Futures Game
by ChadEliot on Jul 8, 2007 1:28 AM EDT reply actions
Miles
As far as the trades go, I wouldn't doubt that Izzy could be gone at the deadline if the Cards are out of it. Seems the Tigers would be a good fit, given the Maroth deal and Leyland's familiarity with St. Louis. Somebody like Izzy in their bullpen would solidify it come the postseason.
Juan is just Juan, and that isn't a good thing, especially for a young team like Florida. Unless some team like the Mets are struggling to stay healthy, Juan will be the starting Cardinals RF next spring. Now with all the Buerhle news, however, a possible New York/St. Louis trade could work if the Mets first trade for MB.
Package Izzy and Juan together? There has to be a few good prospects left for Walt to pick from.
Buerhle
by yer dog first on Jul 8, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
average?
Comparing average ERAs from NL to AL over the last 15 years, there's an approximate .4 difference between NL/AL, so you can roughly translate that to 3.37 if he had pitched in the NL.
He's also thrown 200+ innings every year of his career as a starter. (His rookie year he was in 28 games, only 3 starts)
His resume so far is better than Mark Mulder's was when he came to St. Louis, and we all talk about Mulder as being a potential ace if he could come back 100% healthy.
Didnt Tony...
No wonder he is messed up ;-)
Felix Hernandez and the USS Mariner
FTA: "After the game, Hernandez gave credit to the so-called "Open Letter to Rafael Chaves" that the folks at USS Mariner wrote last week as a reason he mixed his pitches up so effectively in the early innings."
Maybe Duncan will start reading VEB to learn what's wrong with Reyes...
Marlins/Jacque Jones/JuanEnc
good fit
any trade that get's Juan off the Cards roster,
and unless we can get Big Z, or the next Lou Brock from the flubs, I'd stay away from any trades involving the north side losers. it just makes sence to me.
Broadcast is free
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/gameday_audio.jsp?c_id=mlb
No login or other phishy stuff required.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 7:53 AM EDT reply actions
Coffee First
Order is important.
MLB.com will broadcast, via BaseballChannel.TV , the Futures Pregame Show at 3 p.m. ET, then stream ESPN's coverage of the game at 4 p.m. ET, with bonus and exclusive coverage during the breaks in the action.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I must be in the minority,
As for Eckstein going to the Cubs...what has he done to make you that mad at him? :)
by TedGlover on Jul 8, 2007 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
clutch
Clutch is basically luck
The reason to trade Juan is to get rid of next year's salary, or as much of it as possible, and see what we can do w/ that position -- Ankiel, Stavinoha, whatever.
So, yeah, trading him's the way to go, if possible. I'd be surprised if the Fish want him, however. They've already dumped him twice.
Juan E.
I'm not sure why everyone wants to dump Juan for $.10 on the dollar. The fact alone that he can play CF seems to make him have some value. I'd definitely keep him and assume the combination of Jim/Juan is the transition stage to Rasmus.
But I'm probably alone on that one...
by themang on Jul 8, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel's been playing center in Memphis, I think
Exactly
by themang on Jul 8, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
jeepers!
Have you SEEN him out there?
Anybody can have CF after their name in the line-up card... that doesn't mean he can "play" the position.
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Man...I just don't understand the extreme Juan hatred.
by themang on Jul 8, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And make no mistake
He's definitely got the ability to play CF. I'm not sure he's ready to hit at the major league level, but I'd be willing to bet that he'd be as good in CF as anyone we have on the roster -- Edmonds included.
Izzy
by Irishman on Jul 8, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply actions
Erik.....
I would target Marte, who has gone from uber-prospect to out of favor with the club. Blake has hit and played a passable 3B, so they may be willing to move him. They also have a glut of OFers.
The Phillies farm system is kind of thin, so I would have trouble finding something there. Unless you think they might move Pat Burrell.
Just say NO to Pat Burrell
As far as the Phillies prospects go, there aren't many and most are at A level. I can't see the Cards trading him for low level talent, and I can't see Izzy agreeing to go there. If he did not like the booing he got last year in STL, then he will hate the atmosphere in Philly.
Indians
by Hammondsbird on Jul 8, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you imagine TLR
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 8, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Izzy
Yes, hes has 10/5 no trade and yes....an interesting situation
Given Izzy's performance, the Cards likely out of contention and the closer needs of contenders like Clev and Philly, Izzy is a likely and interesting trade discussion........especially given his age, medical history and Stl need to get younger.
On the other hand,
- He has a relatively inexpensive option for 08, especially compared to other free agent options
- Cards have no ready replacement
- Izzy likely would want to finish his career in Stl
There's a lot of talk about
Carp making a rehab start today
Free audio link
Game time is 1:00 PM if you want to hear Carp before sliding over to the Futures game (at 3PM, ESPN2).
and the big team fits in there where?
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 8, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I always forget
Can you imagine how terrifying it is
wellemeyer
In that case, we may see 752,753, and 754 in the first five innings today.
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 8, 2007 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
Trades...
I like all of your trade ideas. Lets hope the Cardinals brass comes to their senses and deals in a sellers' market.
lineups
roberts cf
vizquel ss
durham 2b
incredible hulk lf
klesko 1b
lewis rf
feliz 3b
rodriguez c
zito p
cards
ryan (cool) ss
ludwick cf
21 game homerless streak 1b
hardcore's favorite cleanup hitter rf
scoro 3b
C-dunc lf
sno cones c
evil eck (i need a day off) 2b
wellemeyer p
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 8, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions
I guess
When role players have to play every day, bad things happen. It's great that they are there to fill in during an emergency, but the daily grind will expose WHY they aren't every day players.
by cloistermaximus on Jul 8, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a heads up....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 8, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions
Duncan
Time to see how good these guys are at sitting back and connecting with huge looping breaking balls.
I've liked that idea
And while Duncan is not the prototypical 3-hole hitter (too many K's) he does run better than Albert.
And -- for the 3-hole-- who else is there??
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
While it's good
I'd be very shocked
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
when I read your post, eric...
I admit that my assent to your trade ideas is more emotional than sensible, but the biggest clump in my heart re this year's Cardinal team is, from day 1, my two bete noires: Juan and Izzy.
Not a day has gone by all season that I don't pray they are gone.
It was an existential dilemma for me the other day, when we won an important game... in which Juan hit a three-run homer and Interestinghausen got the save. My joy in the victory was seriously muted.
Re. Eck, it goes the other way, for me. I'm too emotionally attached to him to bear it, especially NOT to the Cubs. BUT... I want him to start playing 2b. Moreover my 'solution' to the middle infield, for now, is to ditch Kennedy somehow and acquire Juan Castro from the Reds (as a back-up).
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
Tear enducing stat line of the series
Giants Pitching: 9 ER (2-0)
Cardinals position players: 6 ER
We'd be going for the sweep if we could get out of our own way.
Footage from 1987 NLCS: Is that a Cardinals team hitting against a lefty?
Keys to today's game:
- Catch the ball.
- Throw the ball to your team mate in such a way that 1. is possible.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
Aaron Miles
HA HA Zito sucks!
someone other than TLR
El Hombre
Ole, you're out!
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to think that next years FA pitchers are
there almost always is a
Seems to me that
High Heat
whew.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions
Bonds 0, Wellemeyer 2
Because he missed location bad
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Pujols in HR Derby?
HR Derby winner
Not being injured for 2nd half.
My vote is "skip the meaningless HR derby".
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote
The real question is
I don't think he'd know what do after getting a hit with no one to talk to.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
So do they do a standing O
and then boo extra, extra loud for the players?
Burn the philly phanatic mascot in effigy?
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank You Wellenmeyer
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
Oh heck yeah
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Giants
boo yaaa baby dunc!!
by RosevilleRedbird on Jul 8, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
Hey!
I thought Zito was a Lefty?
Zito's a different case
by JI on Jul 8, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I was there
by JI on Jul 8, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What a bargain!
126M / 84 pitches.
Ach - vee'll make it up in volume!
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions
yep, it's Sunday
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions
if anyone is interested, over at FR i have a
Freaky Sunday
Cool
Why did Wellemeyer come out?
by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
Situations
Cubs lose!
A few Zito favorites from the Giants blog
Is 12:46pm too early to start drinking?
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
i start drinking the night before zito pitches
********
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
Dear Barry Zito,
You suck.
Love, everybody.
*********
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
we could put a positive spin to this and donate a dollar to charity for every walk and hit and run zito gives up. then zito could match our donations.
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
although at this rate i dont think we paid him enough to cover all those donations
*********
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
I think it's time for Zito to skip a start. Maybe two.
Re: Open Gameday Thread 7/8/07
maybe 7 years.
by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 8, 2007 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
It seems
Indeed.
Deep and dangerous
I guess
I like Zito...
by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
Roberts' flyout got me
Roberts is
One more to go, and also not in the same inning.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
Juan legs out a double...
by willievinceterry on Jul 8, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
Juan would get
More than likely
You have to take the good with the bad with Juan.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Nats win 7-2
Still, losing 2 of 3 to the Giants is disappointing...
by Petkovsek on Jul 8, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
It is disappointing,
Most disappointing
Losing games due to bad defense is infuriating as all get out.
Very true
So Lil' Dunc is on pace for
If I owned the Cardinals I wouldn't be George Steinbrenner by any means, but I would be riding TLR's ass about this without mercy.
This is unfair
Futures game on the deuce.
Band of Brothers marathon on History Channel.
Good thing it's too hot to go outside. With I had more TV's.
That's only
Become One with your Remote Control.
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch the...
I went with
I own Band of Brothers on DVD, but I still get suckered into it every time it's on the HC. Stupid US military feeling of family of ours.
So, like
I remember Larry's post about that earlier this year. I think you can certainly add Friday and Saturday to that list.
the difference between good and bad.
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jul 8, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly Jerry Naron
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
the Yankees have
he looks a lot like Anthony Reyes, flat bill and all.
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
Steve Phillips jinx
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
i've already mentioned it up top
Take Some Pepto
by joethejedi on Jul 8, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
on the plus side
by CurtFlood on Jul 8, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Phillies
no kidding
nice win today. too bad i was up all night with dad and passed out on the couch from lack of sleep and missed it. at least they ended the first half with a win. good to see Tony started Dunk with a lefty on the mound. he better have him in the line up every day from now on. this setting him vs lefty startes, and pinch hitting him late in games vs lefty's HAS to stop.
Buerhle deal means maybe one of these gusy move?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6396
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7043/career;_ylt=AoHz0xu3dcpVrGp_Cgo_oaqFCLcF
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5947
Well Hell
Glad to hear
Wellemeyer didn't seem to mind much. He assumed he'd be back in relief eventually, with ace Chris Carpenter making his second rehab start on Sunday and Mark Mulder slowly gearing up for a return. The Cardinals had also considered moving Thompson back to the bullpen.That from the article."I knew I was going to end up in the bullpen eventually," said Wellemeyer, a waiver wire pickup from the Royals in mid-May. "I've got my confidence up and it should be an interesting second half."
Maybe I'm in the minority based on a few comments
Maybe I've just got too many bad memories of Wells' starts. He's obviously pitching different out of the bullpen, but I'm not at all convinced that will translate to his starts.
Speaking of our bullpen, did you see the ERAs we threw at SF today? 1.42, 1.59, 1.23, and 1.53 for Cate, Percival, Franklin, and Izzy. I know Cate and Percival especially are small sample sizes, but those are fun numbers to see. Throw in Spiezio's 0 ERA and BAA, and that's a pretty solid bullpen!
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 8, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

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