"the long-term well-being of the club" -- Q+A with jeff luhnow
so now they're buyers again?
seems to me this is the type of decision-making that got the cardinals into trouble in the first place. before the 2006 playoffs began, the cardinals were prepared to make some major off-season changes, but they changed their minds after a hot and somewhat lucky october. the front office deluded itself that 16 postseason games were a more accurate gauge of the team's ability than four months of poor play; the plans to retool were shelved, and the cardinals decided instead to reassemble the october team. another four months of poor play have ensued. . . . . and now the team is shelving plans to retool because of three games??? i guess the thinking is that if they can just shrug off one or two 5-0 deficits every week from now through the end of the year, the division is there for the taking.
bah.
Update [2007-7-31 12:21:58 by lboros]: the cardinals picked up joel piniero for a ptbnl. this guy's career era away from capacious safeco field is above 5.00. even in his good years (2002-03) his era was largely a ballpark illusion --- more than 1.50 lower at home than on the road in both seasons. i don't know why the cardinals even bother with players like this . . . . [end update]
my post today is a post-draft Q+A with jeff luhnow. not your typical deadline-day fodder, i'll grant, but the Qs have been pending for a few days and i just rec'd the As yesterday --- want to get them out there while they're still fresh. jeff wrote the answers from jupiter fla after watching pete kozma get his first professional hit. a couple of the questions are past expiration --- e.g., i wrote them before the news of tyler henley's signing had broken, and before derrick goold's profile on pj walters --- but most of them still apply. my thanks to jeff, as always, for taking the time to answer questions.
The draft pick who's getting the most attention right now is somebody no one ever heard of before, Arnoldi Cruz --- the 26th-round pick. Where'd you find this guy?
Credit goes to Charlie Gonzalez (our scout in South Florida). He was in the neighborhood of our complex at Palm Beach Community College. I first saw Cruz at a workout in our complex in Jupiter in April. We were working him out as a catcher, alongside Danny Rams, Yasmani Grandal, and Daniel Mantra (three of the top prep catchers in this year's draft). He later came to our pre-draft workout in late May and we worked him out as a third baseman and as a catcher. We had our scouting staff and player development staff on hand both times. His bat was impressive, as was his defensive skill and his attitude. I'd be remiss if I didn't give an assist to Anup Sinha, our college specialist who lives in Jupiter and pounded the table for us to draft Cruz as one of his "gut feel" players. When a prospect gets a "gut feel" tag from two of the scouts, there is usually something special there. I think Arnoldi now has become a "gut feel" player for many of our fans who follow the minor leagues. [LB: the quad city times had a feature about cruz recently, in case you missed it.]
In addition to Cruz, a few other 2007 draftees who've moved up quickly are Steve Hill, the 13th-rounder out of Stephen F. Austin; Antonio DeJesus, the 16th-round pick out of Kentucky; and Nick Derba, the 30th-rounder from Manhattan College. They're all at Quad Cities and are off to good starts there. Can you add a little backstory on them --- which scouts spotted them, and what did the organization see in those players?
Steve Hill played two years in junior college prior to settling in at Steven F Austin. Both Joe Almaraz and Mike Elias saw him and wanted to draft him, and Sig Mejdal was in full support due to Hill's performance. He plays first, outfield and can catch. His best tool is his bat and his power. He is off to a great start and I hope keeps it up. So far, we are encouraged by what we have seen behind the plate and will give him ample opportunity to get better at that position.
Antonio DeJesus was the center fielder at Kentucky ... Brian Hopkins advocated for him prior to and during the draft, and Joe Rigoli concurred that he was worth drafting and that he is a Cardinal type of player. He has speed, plays the outfield well, and takes his walks. . . . so he has a good chance to be a leadoff hitter. When we became thin at Quad Cities, we decided to promote him despite his low average since he had been taking his walks and was solid defensively. Since the promotion his bat has come alive and the feedback from Mitch (Keith Mitchell) has been very encouraging.
Nick Derba is Kobe Perez's guy. He came to our workout in New Jersey and impressed all of us with his catching skill, his ability with the bat, and his attitude. He has been one of the many pleasant surprises in this draft and as a catcher, he has become a prospect.
Another rapid riser this season has been Jose Garcia, the second baseman out of Venezuela. If I'm not mistaken he started the year at extended spring training and has since moved through Johnson City and Batavia; he's now at Quad Cities as a 19-year-old. What's the story on this kid, and what does his trajectory look like moving forward? Is he likely to be at Palm Beach next season?
Jose was signed last year prior the VSL season. He played in the VSL for the summer and then blossomed during the Liga Paralela in the fall. He was named the MVP of our team there as he did everything --- played middle infield very well, hit and ran well. We suspected he would be able to handle Johnson City instead of the GCL coming into Spring Training. He can play both SS and 2B and has both the tools and the makeup to be a big league player. If he finished the year at Quad Cities in the same manner he has played all year, and has a strong winter season, he will get a chance to play in Palm Beach next year. Javier Meza and Wilmer Becerra deserve credit for bringing Jose into our organization.
Jose Martinez seems to have improved his hitting since being promoted to Springfield --- judging by his stat line, he's showing more power and better plate discipline than he did in single A. Seems counterintuitive --- what's your explanation for it? Is it because he moved from a pitcher's park in PB to a hitter's park in Springfield? Has he made a significant adjustment at the plate? Is it a matter of maturity? Or is it just one of those things --- the kid was underachieving early, and now he's on a hot streak?
I suspected when we moved Jose up that he would return to his form from last year. He flashed it here (in Palm Beach, where I am currently) but wasn't consistent. This is a tough league for hitters as the weather is hot, the crowds are small, and the ballparks are huge. On top of that, the pitching tends to be very good. The Texas League is more of a hitter's league. The biggest contribution Martinez has made this year is he demonstrated his ability to play shortstop at a high level. Because he is not as fast as many shortstops, many people believed that he would not be able to play that position at a high level. Jose has exceptional hands, a good arm, and impressive instincts, so he makes up for his lack of speed. He has always been a productive offensive player, and despite his struggles at Palm Beach this year, I expect him to be a run producer in the future.
I have never read a scouting report on PJ Walters --- what type of pitcher is he? What does he throw, and how is he achieving such outstanding results this year? What part of his game needs the most improvement?
PJ Walters was one of the top three pitchers in college baseball going into the draft last year, behind [Tim] Lincecum and [Brad] Lincoln, according to our performance metric. He didn't have the "stuff" that those two had, which is why he was available after the tenth round. He has the full array of pitches, but more importantly he mixes them up well and he has command of all of them. His best tool is his "pitchability," and that is why he is the first starter from the 2006 draft class to make it to AA. [in case you missed it, derrick goold profiled pj walters last week.]
Ditto Tyler Herron --- what are his best pitches? What does he need to work on to get ready for the next level?
Not much. Herron has the entire package and just needs to get innings and get ready for the next level, which will more than likely be coming out of Spring Training next year. We knew he had this in him, which is why he was a first rounder (compensation pick) for us in 2005. Tyler's fastball is at least average and he has a curveball and changeup that both project to be at least average. The loss in velocity coming out of the draft was probably the best thing that could have happened to him, as he learned how to pitch without blowing people away with the fastball, and now he has matured. The sky is the limit for Tyler. On top of his golden arm, he has exceptional makeup and is a fierce competitor.
Walters, Eddie Degerman, and Brad Furnish have all shifted from the 8-man rotation at Quad Cities to the 5-man at Palm Beach. How has that transition gone for them? Any problems w/ endurance, preparation, or other issues?
I believe the piggyback system helped all of them get innings and get into their groove. None of them has had any arm problems this year, and they have all done well. By the time we switched them over to the 5-man rotation, they were ready. I can't guarantee it, but there is a chance we will start Quad Cities with an 8-man rotation next year and transition back to a 5-man after the draft again. That seemed to work well.
Some of the "tools" guys in the system are really struggling --- Edwards, Pham, and Jones, to name three. Out of that trio, which do you think has the best chance to put it all together?
I've seen all of them just recently. To be honest, I think all three have a chance to put it together. Edwards can cream the ball, as I saw him do in Johnson City last week. He also has played very well in right field, even with the difficult outfield in Johnson City, and his arm is well respected. Tommy smoked a home run for me in Batavia and he has nights where you watch him and you know he is going to play in the big leagues. Jones is one of the most, if not the most, gifted athletes we have in our system. His power and speed combination are hard to match. Yes, they have all three struggled some this year, but consistency is difficult to achieve with the younger players, and I believe it's just a matter of time. Will they all three make it? Who knows? Could they all three make it? Absolutely.
Likewise, a few of the high draft picks from this year's draft are having a rough adjustment to professional ball --- I'm thinking here of Descalso, Eager, and Marmol. It's early, but are you concerned? What specific skills are the coaches working with those players on?
No, I'm not concerned. All three of those guys can play baseball and should be fine. Our staff is working hard to ease their transition from college to pro ball. We all have to remember that after a full college season, it's tough to go out to pro ball and start playing a different game, with the best players in the world, and have immediate success. I saw Eager pitch a fantastic game when I was at Batavia, but he has not been consistent. [LB: he has a nice little run going now --- 2 er in his last 11.2 innings.] Descalso and Marmol both have the tools to play in the big leagues, and they will eventually hit better than how they started. It's very hard to judge players their first short season. I prefer to wait until after their first full season, and then you have a better feel. Look at Allen Craig last year. I suspected he was a much better hitter than what he showed, and sure enough he proved that this year. [LB: per his game log at minor league splits, craig hit just .259 / .311 / .358 in his first month of pro ball last year, with 1 home run. this season he's at .319 / .369 / .541 in the florida state league and is 2d in the loop in homers (17) despite missing 3 weeks on the dl. he returned to the lineup last night, went 1 for 4 with a double and an rbi.]
A few important draft picks remain unsigned --- Kyle Russell, Paul Henley, Mike Stutes, Adam Reifer, and Brett Zawacki. By all indications, Russell is returning to Texas . What should Cardinal fans anticipate with regard to the other four?
Adam Reifer is signed and has been for a while, he just hasn't pitched because he is here in Jupiter on rehab. Tyler Henley is signed too and should be in the Batavia games very soon. We are in discussions with the other three players and everything will become clear prior to the signing deadline of August 15th. [LB: news of the Henley signing first reported and confirmed a few days ago at Future Redbirds.]
Re the signing of picks: in the wake of this year's draft, there has been a fair amount of grumbling that the Cardinals are unwilling to spend what it takes for premium talent. A lot of fans were very frustrated that the team didn't go after Rick Porcello, for example; ditto the likely failure to sign Russell. The Cardinal organization has been signaling, in word and deed, that it's going to funnel fewer resources into the big-league free-agent market and more into player development --- a lot of fans recognize that as a wise philosophy, and they're excited about it. But for some, excitement turns to frustration when guys like Porcello and Russell are there for the taking, and the organization doesn't make the dollars available. Fans begin to think the real commitment isn't to player development, but rather to cost-cutting. What response would you make to those fans? Can you describe a type of player (or a scenario) that would motivate the Cardinals to pay a premium?
That is nonsense, but I can understand how some fans might come up with that idea. Any player that we think is worth more than we have to pay to get them is a player we go after, regardless of cost. Sometimes we go after players that may be worth slightly less than what they cost, but there are other very good reasons to get them (e.g., the alternative is far less attractive and you need to sign someone!). The organization does not have a desire or a strategy to cut costs . . . . but we do have a desire to invest wisely. Fans are always going to complain when we don't sign big-money players, but they end up complaining more if we get stuck with a big contract that isn't working out. We rarely get credit for the guys we didn't sign that ended up not being worth the cost . . . and I'm sure you know the long list of these players. No organization is perfect in this regard, but we certainly put as much effort as anybody into figuring it out and making the best choices for the long-term well-being of the club.
Does one player's performance ever affect the negotiations with another player? Just to take one example: would the Cardinals be more aggressive about signing centerfielder Paul Henley if fellow 2007 draftees (and CFers) Antonio Dejesus and Beau Riportella weren't off to such good starts in the low minors?
NA, as Henley is signed. You can never have enough good premium position players.
How did you like the new draft format introduced this year? Were the intensified coverage and the new time intervals between picks 100 percent good, 100 percent bad, or a mixed bag? Seems like the 2d day of the draft was absolutely brutal ---- nearly 50 rounds of selections, highly time-compressed. Having done it this way once, will you make any adjustments heading into next season?
It wasn't that different, and we were prepared. I loved the 2nd day, because I knew we were getting some great players late in the draft (which we did!). We will be prepared and ready next year, just like we were this year. Our scouts have already been very busy this summer getting ready for next year's draft, as have I. Next year's crop of players is looking very good at this point.
To get back to individual players: Where do things stand with Cody Haerther? When do you expect him back in the Springfield lineup, and when he does return who will he displace in the outfield? He has been at double A since mid-2005 --- two and a half years by the end of this season. Despite his limited playing time this year, will he have a chance to move to triple A next year (much as Brendan Ryan did this year after an abbreviated 2006)? Or does he still have work to do to master the double A level?
Cody is healthy now and will be playing at Springfield for the rest of the year, more than likely. He will get every chance to play in Memphis next year, but has to show us in Spring Training that he is ready. I'm optimistic he will finish the year well and get in good shape for next year. [LB: haerther spent the past week rehabbing with the GCL cardinals and has rejoined the springfield team; he's expect to start tonight vs arkansas.]
The outfield continues to be crowded at the top of the farm system. At least one or two of the incumbents (Stavinoha Mather and Ankiel) --- if not all three --- will probably be back at triple A next year. Among the double A corps, presumably Rasmus is envisioned as beginning next season at Memphis, and possibly Haerther; Mark Shorey is building a case for promotion; Sean Danielson's shelf life is nearing expiration; John Rodriguez will be holding over. . . . . at some point there's gonna have to be a trade, isn't there?
We do have many interesting outfielders, and I'd rather have too many than not enough. If that continues to be an issue during spring training next year, I'm sure we would consider making a move but I'm not worried about it at this point.
Blake Hawksworth is really struggling at Memphis; is he healthy?
Blake is healthy. He has been inconsistent, but it is his first year at AAA and he is still very young and not very experienced. He has nights when he shows us why he is there and why he will go further. AAA is a tough league for first time players, and Hawksworth was at Palm Beach to start the year in 2006. He just needs more time and for all of us to be patient.
Final question: I had a chance to talk to Adam Ottavino earlier this year, and he expressed some frustration with the "pitch-to-contact" philosophy --- he feels he's being pushed to adopt it too abruptly, rather than being allowed to develop it at a more gradual pace. He made similar remarks to Derrick Goold of the Post-Dispatch. Anthony Reyes has been grappling with this issue since at least the beginning of last season, as has been well publicized. Earlier this month, Dyar Miller said in a radio interview that the Cardinals are "a 2-seam, groundball organization." As long as that is the organization's emphasis, does it make sense to draft guys who favor the 4-seam, as Reyes and Ottavino do? If there is a change at the top of the organization --- ie, if Dave Duncan leaves after this year --- will the 2-seamer continue to be a preferred pitch throughout the farm system?
Adam is having a great year and has become more effective as the year has progressed. Pitching is a lot more complicated than the 2-seam, 4-seam debate and even the groundball vs. flyball debate. Yes we like groundball pitchers, but we aren't alone in that preference. Yes we like fastballs that move naturally, but we are not alone in that desire either. Neither of those philosophies needs to change or will change.
* * * * * * * * * *
again, my thanks to jeff. if anybody has a follow-up question, post it here and i'll pass it along. on a side note: i had a chance to meet a staffer from luhnow's wing of the operation, michael girsch, at the SABR convention in st louis last week. nice guy, and a regular reader of VEB and other card-centric blogs, chat rooms, &c. his work duties include surfing the internet in search of nuggets of information that might be useful. (ie, his job is to do what the rest of us are doing while avoiding our jobs; lucky bastard.) i told him i appreciated the fact that there are people in the front office who take fan ideas/input seriously.
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212 comments
Comments
Great stuff
The list of reasons why I come to this site continues to grow.
I appreciate the tough questions that you ask and I am impressed by how Luhnow answers these questions, knowing they're coming from such a rabid faction of the fan base.
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else
My plea to Walt:
Please trade Juan NOW!
It also sounds that Flores could bring us something significant in return. TJ is almost back; we have Cate. Dump Randy. Trade Percival to a contender.
Pretty please?
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like they would rather keep Flo
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second.
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But do you think
If Cate is seen a younger (ie more potential, cheaper), and he's able to bring in greater talent, then I'm okay with it. But if the level of talent isn't that much greater, than lets dump Flores' salary and be done with it.
How do you think GMs will be thinking? Will they want MLB experience from a mediocre/slightly struggling lefty reliever, or potential in a younger lefty reliever?
by effin fisk on Jul 31, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
addition by subtraction
by SleepyCA on Jul 31, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This morning's P-D seemed
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I felt the exact same way!
I thought after the wins that it would turn from sellers to staying put. I am truly suprised it went from sellers to buyers.
I believe lboros once compared the Cardinals last few years to racking up credit card debt. Well, instead of paying down the balance (ie, stop selling the farm kids) we are just adding more debt by trying to buy. My only hope is that we don't do anything and if it is, it is small that does not give up a decent prospect.
by WiscCard on Jul 31, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really interesting interview, LB
I don't really expect the Cards to do anything of substance before the trade deadline -- in one way that's good and in another bad. They absolutely cannot give away any young player of consequence in exchange for a 1 or 2 win (above what we already have) pitcher. I doubt there is a 2 win pitcher that is really gettable anyway. OTOH, if there's a team willing to take Juan off the Cards' hands, they MUST take advantage of it. The extra $6 M could come in very handy this offseason, besides giving younger players the opportunity to play. I don't care how many we're back in the loss column -- keeping Juan doesn't add much in terms of this team's ability to stay in the race.
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He at least seemed to be making it clear that
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's right
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Front of rotation guys, the guys who shut down the
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exceptions to the rule...
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the fact that they liked
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They
Strikeouts are great; they are the pinnacle of talent for a pitcher. When you break down pitching success to the most basic principle, it is making a batter miss your pitch. The more talented pitchers can do this at a greater frequency. However, less talented pitchers sometimes need to pitch to contact -- you can't just say "Hey Brad Thompson, Jeff Suppan, etc, go strike out 12 guys." The less talented (read: less expensive) guys have to utilize their defense to get greater results from their stuff. The more talented guys (Carp, Z, Johan, etc) don't have to. That has been the principle of the now seemingly hated "LaDunc" philosophy -- getting the most out of the least.
Obviously, this doesn't work for everyone, some are naturally fly ball tendency pitchers -- LaDunc's insane inability to adapt to Reyes' style is infuriating -- but to think that the Cards org doesn't value k's seems absurd.
by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that.......but how many
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never would have expected you to say this...
i'd love to see people give this a rest for just a little while. even a pitcher who likes to throw up in the zone can't throw it there ALL the time. no one has a vendetta against reyes. as he pitches reliably better, that will cease to be an issue.
by willievinceterry on Jul 31, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
willievinceterry.....I knew you'd be lurking !
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't
by Jhusk on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for explaining what I was trying
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my last on the "philsophy"
What I will say: I think that if Reyes was winning it wouldnt matter what pitches he threw, if he was 12-4, we're not even having this conversation....period...and he IS the focal point of this whole pitch to contact theme. He is the "poster boy."
He's not 12-4 obviously, he folds with runners on base, he gets wild and cant relocate the zone until mucho damage is done, he gives up runs in the early innings and buries the team, he MIGHT be a head case (no one really knows the answer there) and in spite of his physical talents, he would'nt be the first pitcher with "great potential" to fail in MLB. Therell be 20 or 30 of them this year alone....
I think Larussa and Duncan would LOVE to see him suceed and dont know how to say "he sucks 90% of the time and we dont know why?!" But they CAN talk about what direction they want him to go (they have been around about 30 years longer than Anthony).
In closing, EVERY TEAM in baseball is looking for groundout sinker ball pitchers, up and down and all around. They have nothing against strike-outs....hey, they KNOW winning pitchers are winning pitchers. I dont think Larussa or Duncan are excluding, mistreating, abandoning etc ANY arm that can win games.
Also dont think the organization is responsible for the failure of 2 seamers, 4 seamers, sinkers, knuckleballers, spitballers, or Black and Decker ball scuffers because they want pitchers to go down in the zone. If they get strikeouts down there, its ever the better. But very few pitchers are gonna strike out many MLB hitters UP in the zone. I agree with Laduncettyluhnow or whatever the pet phrase is these days.
I think a lack of pitching without owning part of the plate is a much bigger ptob;em for the Cards staff. Aggressiveness is definitely lacking...ie: the kind Carp and too many to mention have had. That does need to be addressed, there is NO fear going up against most of our staff.
by cardschinmusic on Jul 31, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just
My contention is that EVERYONE, including LaDuncan, understands the value of the strikeout. Their ideal pitcher is someone like Carpenter, who keeps the ball down, yet strikes out 7-8 per game. How else can you explain the professed desire for Kip Wells before the season. The guy throws a sinker but also a 4-seamer with movement. How were they to know that he had nothing between the ears?
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how many Carpenter's are
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Wainwright could do that
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wainwright's a very good example
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's what he should do. If
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter was junk when the cards signed him
by Valatan on Jul 31, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point and since we aren't
One more thing. Since I live in NY, I get tired of hearing endlessly about big money deals and what they will do for you. Lots of those deals don't pan out, this year being a great example. I think it is more fun to take someone who people don't expect much from and see them make a good run. You have to work to make that talent come out and the fact that they can win against the odds is more gratifying (at least for me).
It's like the last two games. I enjoyed coming from behind rather than winning without much battle because it showed that the team has fight and determination even when most people have written them off.
My only concern is that I don't like pushing young pitchers out of the way who were also showing a lot of fight, grit, and determination.
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
for most teams the idea starting pitcher is someone with the stuff to consistently get outs and go long in games. Someone who can get outs with out k's, but has the stuff to rear back and get a k in a tough situation.
I think this is why the team goes after the 4 seamer types. They figure that if they can get them to accept the 2 seam fastball and consistently roll through innings using fewer pitches, the starter still has the 4 seamer to mix in when times get tough and they need to get the k.
Do i know if that is the right philosophy? Don't know. Just a guess, but people who throw 4 seamer might self-select a bit and therefore the Cards like the mental makeup and tenacity of those who throw the 4 seamer as well, figuring that they can adapt that mental makeup into a ground ball and k pitcher.
by JMedwick on Jul 31, 2007 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the mental makeup seems
by nycardfan on Jul 31, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch
by john vb on Jul 31, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strictly meant
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
by john vb on Jul 31, 2007 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good stuff
by erik on Jul 31, 2007 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No surprise but...
by liam on Jul 31, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still confused about the
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No
So, the answer to your question is No.
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I offered to take up a collection......
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of the . . .
by SprfldCards on Jul 31, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone posted last week
by sdrone on Jul 31, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great read
How does he not have 'the stuff' yet he throws a screwball/changeup?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't throw very hard,
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many knucklers
Hell, I can't even think of 5 guys that incorporate a "knuckle-curve" in their stuff. Maybe it's just not that well-documented? Can anyone think of some pitchers that fit the bill?
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Izzy still throw it?
I know Mike Mussina used to throw it, with about 20 other pitches.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knucklecurve
The thing about the knucklecurve is that, really, it's no different than a normal curve. Instead of just laying the middle and forefingers flat along the seam, the forefinger is spiked. The pitch is then thrown just like a normal curve (wrist supinated into the "karate chop" position, fingers pointing at the ear).
Recently I've come across a couple people who believe that the knucklecurve is just a knuckleball with a little bit of topspin to get it to drop. They believe the little bit of topspin comes from the rapid extension of the forefinger. I really don't believe this is the case. I think the knucklecurve (or "spike" curve) is just another way to throw a curveball.
Hernandez stopped throwing it because you have to grip the ball pretty tight to throw one, and it put strain on his elbow. He went back to a normal curve grip and it took some strain off his elbow.
Just as a reference:
Normal curveball grip:

Knucklecurve:

by Jhusk on Jul 31, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You, sir are just awesome for posting a
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask VeB, and you shall receive!
Can anyone tell me where I can find a money tree? Thanks.
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Anyway, yeah, if there's one thing I know, it's how to talk about pitching...
by Jhusk on Jul 31, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record...
I very much appreciated both the illustrative list of players as well as the 6,000 words worth of photo illustrations. Danke!
by Mr Clean on Jul 31, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Currently,
Historically, there have been some really great knuckleballers. Hoyt Wilhelm, Charlie Hough, and Phil Niekro are probably the most well known, but there are many, many more of them. However, as the teaching ideas in pitching have narrowed, unusual things like the knuckler, the eephus, some of the really odd deliveries/arm angles, and other eccentricities have almost completely disappeared.
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sports Weekly
They also found that most of the guys who throw it were pitchers or even position players who, often due to injury, were on their way out of professional baseball. So out of desperation, these guys find some mysterious man in a darkened alley who teaches them the knuckler.
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes. also:
by matt reeder on Jul 31, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does Walters top out at
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then,
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I read that in Goold's piece
Noooooooooooooo!
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could always
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is.
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all honesty, though,
Walters does have better complementary pitches than Slowey, though, especially his changeup/screwball/whatever the hell it is.
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure I'm not the only one
by lordsummer on Jul 31, 2007 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couple of things...
If the Cardinals are really looking at the last three games and thinking that they really have a chance to be a big time contender, then I have to agree with your assessment: they are preparing to make at least one, and maybe a couple, of mistakes. More than anything, this club needs a serious pruning job done; eliminate some salary and prepare to restructure in the offseason. Instead, once again, the spectre of trading the future for the promise of the short term looms large. Gah! Hopefully, the words have shifted more than the ideas, and the front office doesn't mortgage the team any further. Please, guys, just try to move a little salary, give a couple of tryouts to kids, and don't let this random burst of life fool you. It's still a bad team. Accept that.
I thought it was awfully interesting, the way that Mr. Luhnow answered your question about signing bonuses, vis a vis the allocation of resources. He basically said that they only draft players they believe are worth more than what they will cost. Therefore, it stands to reason, they believe they drafted all players who will, in the end, be good values. Unfortunately, (for the Cardinals) that statement really robs them of a leg to stand on if they fail to sign their 'home run' pick guys. The player is worth more than what he costs, so what could possibly be the reason for not paying it, if not the desire to cut costs?
I have been one who has been a big proponent of the new philosophy in the organisation, as far as attempting to build more from within, and so I have stood pretty firmly behind them when they have refused to pony up for ridiculously overpriced free agents. But if you seriously want to develop the talent, you have to be willing to pay for the talent in the first place. The cost of developing a player, considering how long he remains under a team's control, compared to the cost of even a three year deal for a middle of the road free agent pickup, is almost inconsequential. C'mon, guys, just give these other kids their money. It's the right thing to do.
I also find it interesting how strong a stance baseball is attempting to take to curb bonuses, via their slotting system, while having no problem with the unsustainable explosion in FA player salaries. I understand the Player's Association, (boo short sighted unions!) has a big hand in this, but the lack of fiduciary responsibility in the FA market is a far bigger problem than worrying about teams spending extra to buy kids out of college commitments. Both MLB and the MLBPA have really missed the boat on this one.
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cost/benefit vs. Cost-Cutting
The same philosophy is behind our free agent signings, and as development is less a part of that equation, it's easier to evaluate. I posted a diary a while back about the botched second base situation - we didn't sign Grudzialanek because he was "over market value," then a year later signed the Adam Kennedy disaster to a contract comparable to what Grudz signed. To a lesser degree, Reggie Sanders became Juan Encarnacion, Suppan and Marquis became Looper and Wells, etc. Some of these are close to a wash, but it'd be hard to argue we're getting better.
We've certainly hit some jackpots in the Jocketty years with reclamation projects. But more and more I feel like this organization thinks the only way to get value is to sift through the bargain bin, and more often than not there's a good reason those DVDs are $1.
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope they realize they should have
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw this....
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/rays-willing-to.html#comments
by El Schweenador on Jul 31, 2007 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
by El Schweenador on Jul 31, 2007 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eeehhhhhh...
Gomes would be an upgrade in the lineup, but I'm not sure how well he fits for this team.
by the red baron on Jul 31, 2007 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good interview...
As for the team not making changes because of this weekend, I honestly don't think they would've been able to trade anyone anyways.
Izzy - won't waive his NTC
Springer - won't be traded due to family reasons
Franklin - was re-signed
Percival - has some value and could still be dealt
Juan - i dont think we were going to find a taker for him regardless personally.
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Phillies...
by El Schweenador on Jul 31, 2007 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given that we've got little to trade
A nice move, should the pieces come together, would be to move a prospect, preferably one of our all-hit/no glove 1B/OFers, for a #3 or #4 starter, while also flipping Percival to a contender for a prospect that better fits our needs (probably middle infield).
My bigger concern is that this un-tradable mass doesn't change much in the off season. All the more reason to give the cards at least a delicate shuffle in the right direction now.
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chin-Ling-Hu
The Dodgers seem to be floating their SS prospect out there for all kinds of late-inning relief help...Dotel, Cordero and Rauch of the Nats. This kid is supposed to be the real-deal defensively and his bat is coming along. Sounds a little like a SS prospect from the late 70's that turned out to be a pretty good major leaguer (and my favorite player of all time).
I hope Walt has been on the phone with LA. Percival is a valuable piece, but expendable for us...he may not be enough by himself I'd consider throwing in Flores.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 31, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Padres Inquire on Eck
Hmm... I'm not sure how I feel about this. I love Eck but I also love the idea of Brendan Ryan playing everyday at SS.
by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2007 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd trade Eck for whatever we could get
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given how little the Twins got
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given houstoncardinal's point
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the Cardinals need...
I dunno if Philly has any "blocked" starting pitching... if they had any MLB-ready talent, he'd be in the Phils' rotation right now! So while they might need Juancion, what would the Cards get in return? (I wouldn't mind seeing a Ludwick/Ankiel platoon in RF for the rest of this season, let alone '08!)
The Cards won't/can't trade from the bullpen (as noted above); faggedabout moving APu, JEd, Scotty, Yadi, or Young Dunc; and I doubt that there's much (if any) market for Kennedy, Miles, Speezer, So, or Sno-Cones. That leaves Juancion and Eckstein... and ya tell me you're gonna trade the WS MVP the following year, when you've got (admittedly slim) post-season hopes of your own??? I don't see it happening.
If the Birds do nothing at the deadline, I won't be surprised... and doing nothing now might set up the off-season moves for '08. The Birds' success this year and next will depend largely upon guys like Wainer, Thompson, and Reyes maturing as MLB pitchers. If Mulder can "come back" to close to pre-injury form, that's a bonus for '08. And one can always hope the Birds will get a guy named Chris Carpenter around next year's trading deadline!
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 31, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Quentin?
by MemphisIrish on Jul 31, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals acquire Joel Pineiro for PTBNL
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You win this round Hardcore!
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
I have to figure that he is coming to "replace" one of our other relievers who is leaving in a trade, but I can't imagine anyone thinks that he is better than the guys we've been shuttling back and forth to Memphis
by tdawg on Jul 31, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great - another
Meh.
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just looked him up on baseball reference
by tdawg on Jul 31, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I smell a Troy Percival trade
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joel Pineiro is on his way to St. Louis....
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pineiro
I like the move. Simply put, it's very low risk. I'm not sure what his contract situation is but it gives us another option as a starter for next season.
We've seen what a move from the AL to the NL can do for some pitchers... lets see if Joel can do the same!
by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2007 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This has to be a precusor to a Troy Percival trade
by El Schweenador on Jul 31, 2007 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I read somewhere that Falkenberg was DFAed
by cardsfaninmass on Jul 31, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's really in Falkenborg's best interest
by liam on Jul 31, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outrighted
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 31, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Answering my own question...
Each player can be outrighted once w/o consent. If he is outrighted a second time, he has the choice of refusing to report and then becomes a free agent.
So, anyone know if this is Falkenborg first time to be outrighted?
(Also, this seems to me that they were planning on adding someone to the 40-man when they sent Falk back down, thus the "outrighted" versus just "optioned".)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 31, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, though realize...
All minor league players are employees of the parent club, it just transfers which budget the player is paid from.
Some of the terminology is a relic from when this wasn't the case.
by whopperman on Jul 31, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pinero starts, Reyes down again?
I don't see why we need him for the bullpen...the only reason would be to reconvert him back to the rotation. As long as Reyes stays, I'm Ok w/ that.
by cardsfaninmass on Jul 31, 2007 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Despite the losing record, Reyes is not
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wholeheartedly agree...
by cardsfaninmass on Jul 31, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he is....it's the easy decision,
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhahahaha
thats just too funny
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you....the kick the puppy was something
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, i think this is borderline paranoia
by willievinceterry on Jul 31, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fact is
Sure, some are "borderline paranoid" that he may be bumped, but I don't think its an unreasonable fear, given their handling of the kid.
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the fact that Anthony refused to
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Jeez... the guys a 25 year old professional baseball player that makes a pretty nice living. He's gotten bounced around between AAA and the majors; it's not like he is some 22 year old making 20K a year on his 3rd deployment to Afghanistan. I certainly hope he has the mental makeup not to let a few trips to Memphis "kill" him.
by Alxfritz on Aug 1, 2007 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great interview LB ... Porcello
by jjray on Jul 31, 2007 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since the Indians have interest in Percival...
by El Schweenador on Jul 31, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh..
Just another "veteran" who can take spots away from the likes of Anthony Reyes and Brad Thompson.
I wonder...
Maybe the Cards are being smart and acquired Pinero so they can drop Maroth into the pen as a Loogy and then trade Florez...
Naw... After this weekend, don't you see it, the Cards have been winners all along, just hidden under lots of losing...
by JMedwick on Jul 31, 2007 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you always have such a rosy outlook?
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang double posts
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you always have such a rosy outlook?
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Triple posts
No, I am just realistic. I trust what this team has shown on the past 4 months more than what they have shown in the past week. I think the Cards are a .500 club with flaws that will only get worse they longer they are left unaddressed. With the teams play to date, 2007 was the perfect season to start to addressing these issues.
by JMedwick on Jul 31, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to see that happen again........
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope....it's why we didn't even have a catcher
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I meant to add a last sentence......
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Esposito
He also, apparently, hasn't watched this clip: http://youtube.com/watch?v=65zXlytv01c as evidenced by his...incident...a couple of weeks ago.
by whopperman on Jul 31, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like there is a 2008 option
Joel Pineiro p
1 year/$4M (2007), plus 2008 option
by lindqja on Jul 31, 2007 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
anyone know how much we are paying
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is the prorated amount of his 4 mil salary
by indakind on Jul 31, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
o thats right thanks
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Piniero = Kip Wells
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wellski01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pineijo01.shtml
If it were 2003 we'd have a hell of a rotation.
by boilertiger on Jul 31, 2007 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If it was 2003
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Pineiro is going to be
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the cards
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, now that sounded a little
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, I'm attempting to be cynical too,
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll hop on the cynical express
Or not.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 31, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor predictable cardinals
by googs77 on Jul 31, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millwood has been on a roller coaster this year
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
new name for the 07 cards,,,
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the move
Sorry, but does anyone know where I can find the lborors post from a few months ago about who in MLB saves or costs their team the most runs defensively? I can't seem to find it with my own searches.
/end threadjack
by stash3630 on Jul 31, 2007 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Relief help for Yankees?
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, your a number person......the Yanks
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relief Abuse Points
As for what would make a study like that viable, I think it would require a set of data (warmup pitches) that I don't believe is readily available. Assuming you can get that data, you could apply consecutive outings, multiple inning outings, leverage indexes, warmup-sitdown-warmup-sitdown-warmup-enter tendencies (a particular flaw of Davey Johnson bullpens), etc., to get some idea of pitcher abuse. All told, it's probably a lot more complicated, less consistent, and a lot less useful than the effort to put into it.
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks....doesn't sound too easy or maybe not
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's interesting
It would be interesting to see something studied about relievers who, basically, are relievers b/c they didn't have the stuff or the endurance to make it as starters. Even the best have a relatively short window in which they can be successful. He was wondering if Dan Wheeler was another who "flamed out after 150 innings."
I'm not sure if it's been studied but I'd certainly be interested in seeing more stuff like that.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6520
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"only so many pitches in them"
"Hey, don't play with the windows! They only have so many ups and downs in them before they fail!"
Hmm. After re-reading what he said about the windows, I'm now wondering if he isn't simply projecting about something else....
by Mr Clean on Jul 31, 2007 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Wouldn't they rather have Percival? Or a bag of balls?
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so
by silent_bob on Jul 31, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Proctor is a good pitcher, and it might do
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And will be
by Cardinal70 on Jul 31, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might have been nice
The Dodgers wanting Proctor made sense. The Yankees trading away Proctor DID NOT make sense.
I just figured that, if the Yankees were willing to trade themselves into a hole, the Cardinals could help them out for a nominal fee.
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand it
Torre's used Proctor a TON. He's in serious danger of flaming out. Plus they can move up Joba Chamberlain whose doing well in the minors (and has better stuff than Proctor) while at the same time getting some insurance against Rodriguez leaving town. There's some though that Proctor's one pitch away from needing surgery given Torre's usage.
by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point, azruavatar
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols Chuck E. Cheese Pics
http://www.gaslampball.com/story/2007/7/30/115627/858
I find this awesome. But the commentators there are critical of him since he didn't sign any autographs. Of course, Padres fans would be instantly critical of Pujols given their recent playoff record against us.
by enoscountry on Jul 31, 2007 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with a player not posing or
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should've been playing Whack-A-Mole
And as for not signing autographs...the dude's on his own time. If he doesn't sign your rookie card when he's at the park, that's an issue, but seriously these people do have more to their lives than writing their name on a card and posing. If they accepted every invitation to take a picture or sign something, they'd never be able to do ANYTHING.
by joker24 on Jul 31, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame Pujols
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
JuanE is drawing interest from the Angels
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Humber for Cordero Rumor
by eeyorethedog on Jul 31, 2007 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cordero is a lot younger
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently Chris Perez has been promoted
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am really high on him
by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you buy dime bags of Perez?
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I chopped up all his baseball cards real fine
(honestly, though, I think he'll be ready by next year. I love me some college closers.)
by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he comes up this year
Apparently, urban legend Marti is also going to Memphis once the Mexican League season ends.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing goes better with baseball than pot
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to get a contact high
by stl tyler on Jul 31, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should Sammy Sosa be on the Cards radar?
However, one of this teams glaring weaknesses is hitting lefties. Guess what Sammy Sosa does? Rakes lefties.
He makes $0.5 M this year, with incentives, which is less prorated out.
If the Cardinals are serious about being buyers for rentals and fixing holes for THIS year, Sammy Sosa for a PTBNL wouldn't be a bad idea.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The crazy part about this is
by saladdays on Jul 31, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sammy might be fun......I just laughed thinking of
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or his rabbit hop
by saladdays on Jul 31, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be cool
by sdrone on Jul 31, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch! Sammy will just pretend he doesn't
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Tony speak Spanish?
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers pursuing Percy
ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Dodgers are "actively exploring" a trade for Cardinals reliever Troy Percival. It would apparently require a mid-level prospect. Percy would be a consolation prize after the Dodgers missed on Octavio Dotel; really, he's not much worse.
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What would be
by Harknights on Jul 31, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be something good......they
by jillsinmo on Aug 1, 2007 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers made out like Bandits....
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Too bad we couldn't do something like that
by saladdays on Jul 31, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We didn't have the chips they did...
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Izzy was a 5/10 guy anyway.......
by jillsinmo on Jul 31, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I meant...
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just meant
by saladdays on Jul 31, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so for how long after the deadline do trades
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
within the hour if its a big trade
by all in the cards on Jul 31, 2007 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pineiro
by udcardinals on Jul 31, 2007 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how long before they get C Lee?
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time that the Cardinals
by steve in georgia on Jul 31, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
During the season?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Matt Morris just got traded to the Pirates
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For Rajai Davis, whoever that is...
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Weird thing is I just watched the
Flores sucked then, we had a ridiculous hodge podge lineup and Morris was effective but not sparkling.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where he should have been
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guess i missed the second half of that
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how much
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$ 3 M this year
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya thats too much
by punchinjudy on Jul 31, 2007 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
happy for Matty
by madding on Jul 31, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Littlefield
This guy somehow manages to make moves that help in neither the short or long-term. I'll always be a fan of Matt Morris, but 'splain to me how this move helps the Pirates?
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way
by Solanus on Jul 31, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible
by chuckb on Jul 31, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure
As in actually in the minors, not playing like they should be.
by Cardinal70 on Jul 31, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Piniero
by madding on Jul 31, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His stats are decent until 2004...
Still, I was looking at his numberts at THT, and his FIP is actually not terrible. But then again, neither is that of most of the Cardinals starters (other than Maroth). He also seems to have become more of a ground ball pitcher, too. Which in theory should help, at least it would if the Cardinals actually had a decent defensive middle infield.
by DiscoJer on Jul 31, 2007 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinero will start a game this weekend
WTF? Really?
by OCCardsFan on Jul 31, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For St. Louis or Memphis?
by bgodar on Jul 31, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the Cards
by TriplePlay on Jul 31, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes sense
by SleepyCA on Jul 31, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weekend rotation
If Pineiro is going to take on of those slots, I just can't imagine at all who it'd be. [/sarcasm]
Surely it'd make more sense to replace Maroth on Thursday?
by Cardinal70 on Jul 31, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put Reyes on Thursday
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably see this in the game thread..
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 31, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now is Thompson out because of his blister or
by jillsinmo on Aug 1, 2007 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs



















