Wily Mo Pena?

by Mountains Win Again on Jul 19, 2007 12:19 PM EDT

Anyone have any thoughts on the Cards trading for Wily Mo Pena? Apparently the Red Sox are shopping him and looking for a reliever. Taguchi, Encarnacion, or even Schumaker could be thrown in as well...Pena is 25, has not performed well recently but has been injured, and has not really been given a chance to perform since he was considered a top Reds prospect. Could still have a lot of upside, moreso at least than Taguchi, Enc, or Schu.

What do the people think?

Tweet Comment 24 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

thought the same thing

when I saw he was being shopped.

The kid's still relatively young at 25 and he's got monstrous power, especially against lefties. Someone had an article out as well that implied that the Red Sox handling of him has hurt his development quite a bit. Put in a situation where he could play everyday, he could still potentially flourish and learn to hit right-handed hitting.

Given his utter lack of ability to hit righties though, I wouldn't want to give up Izzy for him, unless we were getting another part as well.

Again, this is assuming Izzy would go to a contender, but Izzy for Pena and Jed Lowrie(AA SS with some pop) would seemingly be a very good trade for us.

Otherwise, I'd say someone like Springer could be expendable for Pena alone.

by mtalken on Jul 19, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply actions

I don't see the split

Career Splits (BA,SLG,OBP,OPS+)

Left: .269 .338 .472 110
Right:.250 .297 .466 95

with a Career OPS+ of 100. Even last year he had an OPS+ of 123 vs. RHP against 62 for LHP.

See perfectly average to me.

by Just Rope Ball on Jul 19, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry

the stats are BA, OBP, SLG, OPS+

by Just Rope Ball on Jul 19, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

well...

...he can blast the ball, longest Home Run in Boston Redsox History of 547, he can run pretty well, and he has a cannon for an arm. But can we really afford to have both corner outfielders be below average defensively? Also he strikes out far too often. But if the cardinals could get him cheap, which they probably could since he is only a spot hitter for J.D. Drew and Coco, then they should get him because he still has potential to be a big time star.

by Romo9 on Jul 19, 2007 12:33 PM EDT reply actions

the corner outfield positions

are the least important positions on the field as far as having good defense is concerned. you always should go for offense over defense at those positions.

by jojo5492 on Jul 19, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

If both your corner outfield positions

are bad than you better have a centerfielder with great range. Jimmy doesn't have the range he used to, or anywhere close.

by Romo9 on Jul 19, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions

"dongbert pujdong"????

what are you, 12 years old? change the name immediately.

by lboros on Jul 19, 2007 12:55 PM EDT reply actions

Hahahaha

Good lord i didn't even recognize the guys name until you mentioned it. Excellent!

As for Pena, if you are a fan of Adam Dunn you will LOVE you some Wily Mo Pena, because all this guy can really do is smash the ball a long way and wiff the rest of the time. I for one dislike that style of play and we already have a guy somewhat in that mold in Duncan and i don't feel like we need another.

by lopey986 on Jul 19, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Wily Mo Pena

I have always loved this guy I was calling for the Cardinals to get him when Pena played for the Reds I think acquiring Pena would be a great move by the Cardinals.

by Calhoun on Jul 19, 2007 1:00 PM EDT reply actions

wily mo

This team still can't hit lefty's at all if you could get him for springer and through in schu or some one of the cloth go for it, be some much needed pop in the line up too

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Farwell

by elirock83 on Jul 19, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions

Cash Dump

If we could trade any player with a decent contract (Izzy or Enc) for this guy, than it would be a great deal. The only thing better than dumping cash at this point is getting something potentialy valuable for it.

by tdub @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 19, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions

The Red Sox

have completely mishandled him. He gets about 2 AB per week. He takes a lot of crap from the fans, but people don't seem to realize that if he was given the chance to play every day he might figure out how to hit a breaking ball, and then - watch out.

In my opinion, he needs a full season to figure his stuff out and develop. So if the cardinals are willing to be patient with him, he'd be a good bet. But we'd have to get rid of Enc and he won't replicate Enc's production at this point. 2 years from now he may exceed it though.

by cardsfaninmass on Jul 19, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions

And when I say "full season"

I mean full season playing everyday

by cardsfaninmass on Jul 19, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

his career line is as good as enc's

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 19, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Willy Mo and Santana

I have long been a fan of Pena and would welcome a trade for him. Did anyone else notice the Angels sending down Santana...I wonder what they would want for him.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jul 19, 2007 2:56 PM EDT reply actions

Wily Mo seems like an Oakland player if that

makes any sense. Santana has had some success in the past with the Angels, he's 24, and in the middle of a horrible year. It would probably be a dumb move for them to give up on him. He was optioned-not outrighted-not DFA'D. Personally, if I held the rights to him, I'd just keep holding the rights to him......he's not a groundball pitcher, either, and we know that means he's not a good pitcher in LaDunc's eyes.

by jillsinmo on Jul 19, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

i also wondered the same thing

and was going to start a diary but was too lazy. thanks, "sorry i can't seem to find that user."

i think he'd be an upgrade in rf for less money, and wouldn't cost more than our fourth best reliever. make the deal.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 19, 2007 3:35 PM EDT reply actions

How would it be an upgrade...

... to trade for a guy with a lower BA, OBP and SLG than Encarnacion?

That's not just an anomaly of Pena having a "down year" either.

Pena's 162 game Avg: .256 AVG, 24 HR, 66 RBI.

Encarnacion: .269, 20 HR, 86 RBI

And I cringe at the thought of how many fly balls would be misplayed by an outfield of Duncan, Taguchi and Pena.

by bgodar on Jul 19, 2007 4:26 PM EDT reply actions

getting on the cheap

Yes, Pena's current #s are worse than Enc's but the thought is that Pena's numbers are depressed because he is a young guy who has had splinters coming out of his butt during his stay in Boston. If he came to STL, played every day, and took direction from Hal McRae then we have acquired a guy cheap with the potential to be a productive corner OF.

Enc is what he is. It ain't gonna change through patience. Pena though at least possesses the potential to be something more. Gambling Russ Springer (or a like player) for Pena makes sense to me. Springer is on a one year deal and Troy P. makes Springer expendable.

by jjray on Jul 19, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

upgrade

pena, career: .256/.311/.468, 25 years old.
jenc, career: .269/.317/.442, 31 years old.

so, first: pena's career ops is higher than jenc's.

second: pena's ops is awful this year, but yes, i think a lot of that can be attributed to the way he's been used. the only year in his entire career pena has played in 100 games - or had more than 311 ABs - he slugged .527, with 26 HRs in only 336 ABs. put the kid in the lineup every day and see what happens.

third: pena's contract: 1 year, less than $2m. enc's contract: $5m this year, $6.5m next year.

fourth: at 25, pena is likely (again, with the proper usage/treatment/development) to keep getting better - he's likely not yet reached his peak. at 31, jenc is almost certainly performing at the highest level he will ever perform again.

so, yes, i think pena for enc would be an upgrade - even before factoring money into it.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 19, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions

and, by the way, WHAT??

how are wily mo's 2007 stats NOT "just an anomaly of pena having a 'down year'"?

for the three seasons prior to this one, pena's AVG was at least 44 points higher, his OBP was at least 25 points higher, and his SLG was at least 124 (!!) FREAKING POINTS higher than his respective stats this year.

so i'll grant you - in 2002 and 2003, in the roughly 190 at-bats wily mo pena got in the major leagues before he turned 22, his stat line was basically the same as this year. but other than that, i'm not sure what the hell you're talking about.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 19, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions

My point

was not that Wily Mo's 2007 stats are not an anomaly of a bad season - which you're right, doesn't make any sense. My point was that the fact that Pena is failing to post better numbers than Encarnacion is not an anomaly.

The 162 game averages I posted take into account all 1200+ at-bats of Wily Mo's career.

If you compare them season-to-season, Enc generally posts slightly better AVG and OBP, while Pena posts slightly better SLG. Enc's career line is .269 / .317 / .442, while Wily Mo has gone .256 / .311 / .468 (AVG/OBP/SLG).

Those stats are extremely comparable, and one could even argue that Enc's are better, without even broaching the subject of defense.

I think there's some validity to the argument that Pena is a better option based on price and age, and maybe that alone is worth pursuing him. But I think at-best we're getting a younger, cheaper version of Juan E.

You may be right about Wily Mo still having room to develop. But when I watch him play, I see what Bill James called "old player skills." I see Daryl Ward, and I notice his #1 comp at Baseball Reference is Pete Incaviglia. Either way, I'm not excited.

by bgodar on Jul 19, 2007 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions

ah, i see

you were just extrapolating HR over 162 games or whatever. fair enough.

yeah, i agree that their lines to this point are similar. i do think age and price are keys to why i think it's an upgrade, as well as the fact (tied in with age) that i think wily mo still has some significant upside, and jenc doesn't.

i also don't agree with the "old player" characterization - wily mo, at least back when he was with cincy, looked like a freak athlete - not bo jackson freak, but a lot closer to bo jackson than daryl ward. his inability to play defense isn't because of his athletic ability, it's because he doesn't know how to play defense.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 19, 2007 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Check out the trade banter a few diary posts up...

I posted on Over the Monster to the Sox fans asking who they would like to see back for Willie Mo. I thought this would give us a realistic idea of what it would take to get him so we could decide if it would be worth it or not. Check it out. Right now the Red Sox bunch is chatting it up pretty good.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Jul 19, 2007 9:14 PM EDT reply actions