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how to play for next year, part I

for the 2d time in 4 days, a cardinal farm team was no-hit --- this time short-season A batavia. a perfect game, no less. the previous no-hitter, you'll recall, wasn't technically a no-hitter --- after 14 hitless innings in a scoreless tie, the GCL cardinals ended up getting a few hits and winning the game 1-0 in the 17th.

nice win yesterday, but in spite of it i've finally decided to face facts: i think the cardinals are through for 2007. i'm hardly the first person to reach this conclusion; many of you got here weeks (or even months) ago. i've been holding out hope for a late-season rally, but my wishful thinking was predicated largely on carpenter's return to the rotation for the final 2 months. that won't be happening now, and as a result i can no longer convince myself that a resurgence --- a longshot even with carp back in the rotation --- is a realistic possibility. the cards have never have been all that far off the pace, and even now a single red-hot homestand could vault them back to within striking distance. but without carpenter, i just don't believe they can close the deal. in a best-case scenario (and i wouldn't bet on it happening), carp might get back onto a major-league mound for the last month ---- but if that happens, how well can he be expected to pitch?

i'm like any fan ---- i always hope for the best. it's what we fans are really good at. but it will take more than hope for the cardinals to get out of the decline that has gripped them for the last full calendar year (october excepted). it will take smart decisions by the front office. with the trade deadline looming, the cardinals have to be ready to seize any opportunity that presents itself to start restructuring this team. the discussion is already underway in this diary; i'm gonna add to it over the next couple of days. today i'll focus on position players only; i'll look at the pitchers tomorrow.

before i dive into this, a disclaimer: this is not a "blow up the team" discussion. admittedly, the notion of blowing it all up might lower the collective blood pressure of greater st louis --- dump this bum and that bum and that piece of crap, they all SUCK!!! --- but that's useless talk. the cardinals aren't going to go this route, and they'd be stupid to. it's not constructive; ya gotta look for solutions. as i wrote in the comment thread yesterday, the process has to begin with a discussion of what type of players the cardinals need to add, not which disappointments they should punish with a pink slip. that means taking stock of the organization's assets (current and future), identifying the holes, and then evaluating which ones can be filled from within the system and which ones will have to be filled from without. regarding the latter, the question then becomes: who's available via free agency or trade to fill those holes --- and can be acquired at a reasonable cost in money and/or talent.

we might as well begin this exercise with more bad news: the cardinals have left themselves very little room to maneuver. 11 players on the current roster are owed a total of $69 million in guaranteed money next season:

pujols $13m
carpenter $10.5m
rolen $10m
edmonds $8m
encarnacion $6.5m
mulder $6.5m
looper $5.5m
kennedy $3.5m
spiezio $2.3m
franklin $2.3m
flores $1m

these figures do not include deferred money, which the club counts (illogically) as current-year payroll --- that boosts the above figure by $5m (albert has $3m deferred from next year's salary, rolen $2m). so by the team's lights, $74m of next year's payroll is already committed; if the cardinals exercise their $8m option on isringhausen (likely), that pushes the total to $82m, and the hefty raises that will be owed to three arb-eligible players (molina, maroth, and miles) push the total to nearly $90m. by the time you add in the salaries of pre-arb returnees like wainwright and duncan, next year's payroll is almost entirely spoken for --- before the cards have signed a single free agent or added a single impact player via trade. let me put this in roster-matrix form:

2008 ROSTER MATRIX
DEADLINE DUMP SPECIAL

STARTING 8 BENCH ROTATION PEN
molina c
$1m
schumaker of
$400K
carpenter rhp
$10.5m
is'hausen rhp
$8m
pujols 1b
$16m
spiezio ut
$2.3m
mulder lhp
$6.5m
franklin rhp
$2.3m
kennedy 2b
$3.5m
taguchi of
$1m
looper rhp
$5.5m
flores lhp
$1m
rolen 3b
$12m
ryan if
$400K
maroth lhp
$5m
johnson lhp
$400K
miles ss
$1.5m
VACANT c
---
wainwright rhp
$450K
thompson rhp
$600k
duncan lf
$500K
ankiel of
memphis
reyes rhp
memphis
kinney rhp
$400k
edmonds cf
$8m
ludwick of
memphis
hawksworth rhp
memphis
cate lhp
$400k
en'cion rf
$6.5m
hoffpauir if
memphis
garcia rhp
memphis
cavazos rhp
memphis
---
---
j-rod of
memphis
boggs rhp
memphis
worrell rhp
memphis
TOTAL
$49.0m
TOTAL
$4.5m
TOTAL
$28.5m
TOTAL
$13.1m
OVERALL PAYROLL: $94.5

very obviously, they need to get rid of some payroll; either that, or raise the ceiling into the $110m range or so. they can make some easy trims by nontendering some of their arb-eligible players (maroth and miles come quickly to mind) and/or by declining isringhausen's $8m option. (they also hold a $1.1m option on taguchi, which they probably will exercise if he continues to swing the bat well.) i doubt they're gonna cut izzy, and miles will always have a place here as long as mr la russa is the manager; maroth is the most likely of the three to get dumped. aside from that, clearing payroll won't be easy. the cardinals are pretty much stuck with their two overpriced ex-sluggers, edmonds and rolen, who both have negative value on the trade market; the cardinals would have to give up large amounts of cash and/or some good talent to get rid of either contract. and even if the cards could move one of them, the organization doesn't have replacements who can step in and play 3b or cf next year (unless you think ankiel is ready, which i don't).

there probably is a trade market for encarnacion, albeit a weak one, and probably a better one for isringhausen --- but the cards might need to strike quickly to exploit it. there also is said to be interest in anthony reyes, who is the type of player (ie young and cheap) who the cardinals probably should not be trading --- but under the circumstances, i think they'd be well advised to convert him into some other form of talent. the only other guy who they might realistically move is braden looper, but i kinda doubt the market for him is all that great either; the innings are catching up to him, witness his recent trip to the disabled list and his record since may 1 (3 wins, 6 losses, 6.21 era). if they're lucky they might be able to get a platoon player or class A prospect for him, and that might be worth it, just for payroll savings. . . . .

but wait ---- as i said above, this is the wrong way to begin the discussion. while it's true that the cardinals will have to move some payroll off the books, the focus still needs to be on the talent coming in, not the talent going out. so --- again, looking only at the position-player side --- these are the organization's biggest needs, according to me:

  1. youth.
    2008 assets: albert pujols (28 years old in 2008), chris duncan (27), yadi molina (25) on the big-league roster; rick ankiel (28), skip schumaker (28), brendan ryan (26), nick stavinoha (26), jarrett hoffpaiur (25), and joe mather (25) at triple A.
    beyond 2008: colby rasmus (21), bryan anderson (21), mark shorey (23), cody haerther (24), john jay (23), mark hamilton (23).
    players under the age of 30 have taken only a third of the the cardinals' non-pitcher at-bats this season, and a big chunk of that total has come from replacement-type players (ryan ludwick, skip schumaker, brendan ryan) whose major-league future, if any, probably lies in utility duty; they're not likely solutions to the cardinals' lineup problems. the crop of position-player prospects currently at triple A --- ankiel, ryan, stavinoha, mather, and hoffpauir --- might produce one big-league regular, if the cardinals are lucky; the double A crop is far more promising, but it's not likely to help in 2008. moreover, the best prospects are outfielders and first basemen; the cardinals need to get younger all over the diamond. the cardinals already have youth at first base, behind the plate, and at one outfield position, and rasmus will probably be ready by 2009 (maybe sooner) to add youth in center. a youngish middle infielder would really help.
  2. speed.
    2008 assets: none to speak of, really. the only players who could be described as fast are schumaker, taguchi, and ryan; ankiel reportedly runs pretty well when he's healthy, and both rolen and pujols are excellent baserunners despite a lack of great footspeed.
    beyond 2008: rasmus, jay, daryl jones.
    old and slow usually go together; kind of like beans and cornbread (or like dumb and dumber). the cardinals are dead last in the big leagues in stolen bases this season, and dead last in triples; nothing more to say about that.
  3. on-base ability.
    2008 assets: pujols (.412 obp this year), duncan (.385), spiezio (.364), and rolen (.341 in an off year) on the big-league roster; john rodriguez (.378 career big-league obp) and hoffpaiur (.360something career minor-league obp) at triple A.
    beyond 2008: rasmus (.359 current-year obp), anderson (.372).
    the cards rank 15th in the league in walks and 7th in on-base percentage. they never have been an extremely patient hitting team --- even in their offensive heyday they never ranked higher than 5th in the league in walks --- but they haven't finished this low in obp since 1999, when they ranked 10th in the league in scoring. one of their key on-base players, edmonds, can't stay on the field, and another (rolen) appears to be in decline. the cardinals' leadoff hitters have a collective .309 on-base percentage this year, which is 14th in the nl (houston and washington are worse). while the cardinals' farm system is definitely improving, plate discipline remains in alarmingly short supply throughout the ranks; the cardinals need to address that in their future drafts, and/or they need to work with their minor-league hitters to be more patient.
  4. middle infielders.
    2008 assets: kennedy, miles, ryan, hoffpaiur.
    beyond 2008: tyler greene, the former #1 who's currently playing ss at double A, probably won't stay at short. the cardinals drafted two shortstops in the first 10 rounds of this year's draft, pete kozma and oliver marmol; the latter won't be ready for 3 years at the earliest (assuming he signs), and marmol is off to a slow start in short-season A (.173 average, although he does have some speed and a good batting eye).
there are other weaknesses at the big-league level, no doubt --- extra-base power being one, outfield defense being another. but the cards have both of those bases covered within the organization, imho. there's ample power within the organization, beginning with pujols and duncan on the big league roster; the cards' triple A and high A teams both feature league-leading home-run hitters, and their double A and low-A teams used to have league leaders before those players were promoted to the next level. as for outfield defense, schumaker is a solid (if not spectacular) defender, ludwick is very good, ankiel and rasmus are both said to be above average. they'll need plus defenders in center and right to compensate for duncan, but that objective would seem to lie within reach.

so --- to wrap this up --- if the cardinals can swing one trade at the deadline to start restructuring this team, the ideal acquisition would be a 20something shortstop who can bat leadoff, draw a walk, and steal a base. somebody like rafael furcal, in whom the cards showed no interest when he was a free agent 2 off-seasons ago . . . . .

anybody know of such a player who might be available from a contending team that needs jason isringhausen for the stretch run? or maybe one on a rebuilding team that could find a place for a young starting pitcher like reyes? the comments are open.

i'll look at the pitching side of things tomorrow.

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Aside from the under 30 part
it sounds like you're describing A-Rod.  If only we could dump Enc from the roster five times...

by Valatan on Jul 16, 2007 9:52 AM EDT   0 recs

good lord that would be awesome
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 9:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The only name that I thought of right away
was "NEIFI!" Luckily he got busted for steroids.

What contenders (besides the Tigers who may be shored up just by Zumaya coming back to back up Jones) need closer types?

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 16, 2007 10:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the braves do
the phillies, if'n they're still in the race; the dbacks; the tigers; the indians. those would seem to be the 5 prime candidates.

by lboros on Jul 16, 2007 10:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jesus Merchan
Can someone with an eye on the minors explain whether the Phils' Merchan is worth considering?

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 10:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

doesn't look like a prospect to me
it took him 6 years to get out of class A; he had a breakout year this year at double A but he is extremely old for that league (26 --- as old as chris duncan) and repeating the level. last year he had a .676 ops at that level, as a 25-year-old.

his career minor league stats: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Jesus-Merchan.shtml

maybe he's a late bloomer, but it seems at least as likely that he's just having an aberrantly good half-season.

keep the suggestions coming, though. i never heard of this guy before; at least he's now on my radar.

by lboros on Jul 16, 2007 11:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 11:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Braves fans
recently debated Pete Orr's trade value here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/braves-want-imp.html

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 10:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought of the D-Backs
but aren't they happy w/ Valverde?

(Of course, too many good bullpen arms is never a bad thing.)

Braves and Indians would both be good fits for Izzy, if'n he allows himself to be dealt.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 16, 2007 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i only included the dbacks
because they're supposed to be hot n heavy after octavio dotel. maybe they just want to beef up the back end of the pen, or maybe they don't trust valverde.

by lboros on Jul 16, 2007 12:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the Braves have
3 young SS's -- Yunel Escobar, Brent Lillibridge, and Elvis Andrus -- and they're all blocked for next year anyway by one Edgar Renteria.  Lillibridge is having a down year at AA, though I think he was recently moved to AAA.  

I'm not sure that any of them translate necessarily into a leadoff hitter, but I don't feel that we can be so choosy as to turn down a solid young SS b/c he projects as a #2 or #7 hitter rather than a leadoff hitter.

I'm sure Schuerholz would be interested in Reyes for the future and might be interested in Looper for the stretch run.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

first glance, off-the-cuff
you think boston would give dustin pedroia for izzy?

2B; turns 24 next month; .309/.392/.434.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 9:58 AM EDT   0 recs

they would not
give up pedroia for izzy, they already have papelbon as closer, and that japanese set up man, and another good right hander who is young in the bullpen.  

by PGeorge on Jul 16, 2007 12:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure that
Hoffpauir can't be the 2B we'll need, not next year but we'll still have Kennedy and Miles next year.  Maybe the year after.

SS should be our #1 concern, beginning today.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

why not next year?
The guy is 24; he's not getting any younger, and if he keeps hitting in AAA I see no reason not to give him a shot at the job.
Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jul 16, 2007 4:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Shortstop Conundrum
I look around the league, and there aren't too very many options of the sort you describe that present themselves.  The only real guy like that that I see currently is Brent Lillibridge, in the Braves organisation.  I haven't looked at his numbers or anything, but I know he's supremely athletic, the Braves have a need for a back end reliever; the Cards might have to pick up some salary to make the deal palatable for the payroll conscious Braves.  

The Angels and the Diamondbacks are the only two other franchises I can think of that seem to have real surpluses at middle infield spots.  The Angels obviously don't need a closer.  I don't really know that much about what the DBacks are trying to do currently.  I know they're contending, but their payroll situation, what they need to add, all that stuff is a mystery to me.  I don't like the Diamondbacks enough to really pay attention to them, other than what Baseball America and the other publications have to say about their prospects.  

I don't need no instructions to know how to rock.

by the red baron on Jul 16, 2007 9:58 AM EDT   0 recs

The D-backs
are not getting much in the way of production from their young outfielders. Maybe an inexpensive vet could help pull the outfield together. The pitching seams pretty solid. So maybe JuanE could fetch one of there infield prospects.

by nybirdfan on Jul 16, 2007 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Quinten
Carlos Quinten just got sent down.  Wouldn't he look good in a Cardinal uniform?

by RAholt on Jul 16, 2007 11:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Love to get Quentin
His home/road split this season is bizarre.

by liam on Jul 16, 2007 11:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

it would take
Some one like Reyes to get Quentin. Would you do that? I would have to think about that along time.

by nybirdfan on Jul 16, 2007 10:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

UUM, No. Don't they have the most
wonderful Jonathan Papelbon in that spot?

by jillsinmo on Jul 16, 2007 10:00 AM EDT   0 recs

yes, but
i'm not sure how sold they are on the rest of their pen.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 10:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, I'll play
How about DET? Todd Jones is nothing great, Zumaya and Rodney are currently both injured, looks like they are both due back sometime in August though. As far as who to ask for, this Michael Hollimon guy looks interesting:

http://firstinning.com/players/Michael-Hollimon-a/

by mikedallas23 on Jul 16, 2007 10:00 AM EDT   0 recs

cleveland
the indians' closer is currently joe borowski. that is not a typo. 5.30 era. 1.43 whip.

i guess jhonny peralta is probably too much, though.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 10:03 AM EDT   0 recs

re: cleveland
i suppose we wouldn't be able to get Asdrubal Cabrera either?

by lindqja on Jul 16, 2007 11:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why?
he's blocked, unless the Tribe plans to trade Peralta for some other pieces in the offseason.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is my band wagon
Watched this kid play a couple of times. He reminds me a lot of Orlando Cabrera.   A hard nosed smooth fielding shortstop that can swipe a bag and has pretty good plate discipline.

by Hammondsbird on Jul 16, 2007 6:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The move I'd make right now is...
...to sign Todd Walker for the minimum, bat the lefty second ahead of Albert and let him play 2nd base. It would bring in some hitting and cost nothing.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 16, 2007 10:06 AM EDT   0 recs

....except a few runs
THen again, if Kennedy is making multiple errors/game....

by sdrone on Jul 16, 2007 11:04 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Except that Walker
said on The Baseball Show yesterday that he's retired...
"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 16, 2007 12:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, even if they're out of reach,
and their clubs aren't contending any more than the Cards are, Troy Tulowitzki and Hanley Ramirez would present ideal targets, wouldn't they?

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 10:13 AM EDT   0 recs

Hanley
Ain't going anywhere, unless you want to give them maybe the top 3 prospects in our system. The time to get young players is before they prove themselves at the major league level, once they have proven that they can stick teams just don't get rid of them while they are making $500K, unless they are in a race and desperately need to fill a hole.

by mikedallas23 on Jul 16, 2007 10:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

trouble is,
florida doesn't take on salary, and they don't trade cheap players. so we'd have to give them someone cheap and good in return.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 10:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Could we trade one of our players for
one of the Marlin's executives?  One that runs that farm system?  They draft well, they develop position players and pitchers, and then they can't afford to keep them. Only we could afford to keep the players......

by jillsinmo on Jul 16, 2007 10:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tulowitzki
I live in Denver - I can say with close to 100% certainty that Tulowitzki is not going anywhere. The Rockies have looked for a good SS for their entire existence and finally have one.
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.

by cardsfanindenver on Jul 16, 2007 2:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My family went to a game in Tulsa
last year-Troy was at shortstop and the other team was the Angels.  Brandon Wood was still playing shortstop at the time.  They are both going to be something special--they clearly stood out from the other players.

by jillsinmo on Jul 18, 2007 9:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Slightly off topic (Izzy wouldn't be in trade)
But Felipe Lopez seems to fit the bill. You might sacrifice a little OBP for some pop, but I think many people would. His OBP has still been over .350 for the last few years.

He's having a down year this year, which could mean he'd be ripe for the picking.

Still arbitration eligible as well I believe.

by KoryWiu14 on Jul 16, 2007 10:37 AM EDT   0 recs

but he's terrible defensively
like, so bad he really shouldn't be playing shortstop at all. one of the worst defenders in mlb at the position.

by lboros on Jul 16, 2007 10:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He was moved to 2B
this season so the Nats could play Cristian Guzman every day.  That should tell you everything you need to know about his defense.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Julio Lugo
The Red Sox would pay some of Lugo's salary if they could get Izzy.  That being said I dont want to trade away Izzy.  We need a closer for next year.

However, If the Red Sox make a run at Arod the Cards could find that Lugo would be a solution at SS.  Orlando Cabrera could also shake loose via trade.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Jul 16, 2007 10:54 AM EDT   0 recs

would definitely take cabrera
but julio lugo is: not good. and: not young.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 16, 2007 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lboros' analysis above
tells me the '08 Cardinals aren't likely to be a good team.  So why on earth do we "need" Izzy to be our closer next year?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2007 12:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This team could/should contend
next year.  Why not?  The rotation has a chance to be much improved w/ Carp, Mulder, Maroth further from surgery, Wainer w/ a year as a starter under his belt.  

This team will need a closer for next year.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wish I had your
faith that Carp and Mulder will be their old selves again next year.  Of our high-priced players--AP, Rolen, Edmonds, Izzy, Carp--Izzy is the only one that might bring us back some value in a trade this year (obviously AP would bring back HUGE value, but we all know he's not on the block), I don't get this refusal to consider trading him. Are we just gonna cross our fingers for 2008 and hope for a miracle?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2007 2:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We DON'T need Izzy
I'm with you - we don't need Izzy, even if we were to make a run next year.  Look at all the contending teams mentioned in this thread that don't have top level closers.  Heck, look at the '06 Cardinals, who did just fine with a rookie from within their own system.

All things being equal, everybody would love to have a K-Rod.  But many, many teams have succeeded by just giving the ball to the best arm in their bullpen.

And we're not talking about this resurgent '07 Izzy here, we're talking about the '08 model.  Maybe he'll be just as good next year, but as he'll be turning 36 during next season, I think we'd be very wise to trade him now if we can recoup some value from this late career surge.

I'm not arguing Izzy isn't a valuable player - he is.  That's why he makes a good trading chip right now.

by bgodar on Jul 16, 2007 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember Ricky Bottallico?
Heck, remember Dave Veres?  I don't really want to go back to those days.  Having the ninth be an adventure every time out isn't so great.

by Valatan on Jul 16, 2007 3:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember Jason Isringhausen?
I seem to recall the ninth inning being an adventure just last year.  Yes, he was injured.  But at his age we shouldn't expect that to be uncommon.

I guess my point is that I don't see Troy Percival, Ryan Franklin and eventually maybe Chris Perez as being SO MUCH WORSE than Isringhausen '08 that it wouldn't be worth exploring a trade.

We have several players right now who are better than Bottallico or Veres.  Saying "we can afford to trade our closer" isn't the same thing as saying "we can afford to have a lousy bullpen."

by bgodar on Jul 16, 2007 4:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cabrera could shake loose
this offseason, not before then b/c the Angels are a definite WS contender.  But they do have young SS's and, though they've moved Brandon Wood to 3B, they could always move him back if Cabrera brought something in return.  

He wouldn't solve the youth problem, but he would give us 1 more year to find the SS.  It's important to remember that other teams are always trying to get younger as well, so Cabrera may be the one the Angels look to trade.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Arroyo is a trade possibility for this year
...we could pick up the remainder of his salary (4.3 M for this season) and see how he does.  He did not pitch well for the first part of the year but he's had quality starts in the last 5 out of 6 games (after the Reds rested him).  It was reported this morning that the Reds are thinking of trading him before the deadline (MLB Trade Rumors).

It's being reported that Contreras may also be available.

It's always fun to bet on the future but I'm still focused on supporting the current team.  I don't care if they win the division but I'd like to see them play well and get back to enjoying the game--like they clearly did last night.  It was great to see them laughing together again in the dugout.  THEY look like they feel as though they still have a chance and they are fighting hard so I'm staying with them.  Plus, because of the adversity they've faced with JH's death and all the injuries this year, I think they deserve extra support even if its betting against the odds.

The offense may be catching fire.  Wainwright certainly proved himself again as a worthy starter, even a potential ace.  Thompson and Looper can be solid ground ball pitchers.   TLR and Dunc both think Wellemeyer has enormous physicial and mental talents that could be refined.  We obviously need another pitcher (at least).  And for all the love Reyes has been shown on this site, I think his four seamer would have been batted out of the park repeatedly and he would have been chased from the game like our first two starters were.  Unless he can figure out location, movement, or increase his velocity, I don't think he's an option (regardless of his relationship with Duncan).  

So maybe we still have some options from the outside to pick up one or two more pitchers before the deadline and just try to do as well as we can.  

by nycardfan on Jul 16, 2007 10:55 AM EDT   0 recs

Chin Lung Hu
The futures game MVP might be available.  I have seen this guy play and he is electric in the field.  This year at Double he hit .329/.380/.508.  So far at Triple A he is hitting .444/.444/1.000 in a limited sample size, 18 ABs.  The Dodgers need offensive help more than anything, but could use another arm out in the bullpen.  They have a Joe Beimel from the left side but probably could use another, say a Randy Flores or maybe Tyler Johnson.

Who manages this team?  Pop Warner?  Seems he is being groomed for the job.  Kind of like Eric Wedge when he took over in Cleveland.

www.whiteyball.com

by whiteyball on Jul 16, 2007 11:02 AM EDT   0 recs

Don't the Braves have too many shortstops?
Edgar Renteria
Yunel Escobar
Pete Orr
Brent Lillibridge

I imagine that Escobar's out of the question; and that Orr's older than we want.

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 11:08 AM EDT   0 recs

a year ago
lillibridge would've fit the bill perfectly...near .900 OPS, 50 steals. now he hasn't hit a lick this season between aa and aaa for the braves. his pop and discipline have severely eroded.

by erik on Jul 16, 2007 11:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks, Erik
Orr's drop from the majors seems to disqualify him as well. Plus the Braves gave up only a very green catcher for Wickman last year (Max Ramirez).

by Don Zero on Jul 16, 2007 11:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lillibridge
was moved up to AAA after posting a .355 OBP at AA.  While he was better last year in A ball, he wasn't having a bad season.  He is struggling a little at AAA (.291 OBP) so far, it's important to remember that he's played just 4 months above A ball.  He probably does need a full season at AAA, but there's a reason the Braves (a team who really knows how to use its farm system) moved him to AAA.

by houstoncardinal on Jul 16, 2007 1:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Boston...
as someone said above, Dustin Pedroia fits the criteria needed.  They do have Papelbon, but if memory serves me right they want to move him into the rotation.  It is kind of a Wainwright last year situation.  They want him in the rotation, but he is doing well in the closer spot and don't have a great alternative (I think Joel Pineiro is their next option).  Izzy is low risk for them, they aren't afraid to take on salary, especially with club option for next year.  
I believe Izzy has a no trade clause in his contract though or he automatically gets no trade because of the 10/5 clause.  If the club is serious about trading him, first step is find out where he would want to go.  I think he would be fine with Boston.  He is in the sundown of his career and Boston is in good shape to be serious contenders for the next 3 or 4 years, whereas the Cards are probably going to be doing rebuilding in those years.
If Boston wanted more (which they could), I have also read they would like to move Coco Crisp.  If we threw Reyes in (which I would only do if we got something back), we could get that and help with the speed issue.  He's still young and fairly cheap (07:$3.5M, 08:$4.75M, 09:$5.75M, 10:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout).  
"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Jul 16, 2007 11:08 AM EDT   0 recs

I don't think they want to move Papelbon anymore
They considered moving him into the rotation in the offseason b/c of health issues, but then changed their minds. Wainwright was way more of a temporary fix, whereas Papelbon has been one of the best closers in baseball with ridiculous numbers since the beginning of 2006.

by willievinceterry on Jul 16, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Boston....
As someone who lives in Red Sox City State, there is no frickin' way that the Red Sox trade Pedroia.  First, with his plate discipline, pitch taking, and OBP, I think Theo is in love with Dustin.  Hell, I think I'm in love with Pedroia.  

Lugo, that's an interesting one.  The fans are calling for Alex Gonzalez to get starts.  However, I have to wonder if Theo will give up so quickly on Lugo, who he's been universally raked over the coals for acquiring.  Lugo's been absolutely dreadful this year, both hitting and in the field.

Side note, going to the Red Sox vs. Royals game tonight at Fenway Pahk.  Currently arbitrating a dispute between my mom, who wants to root for the Royals because of Mid-West loyalty and my wife who just might put a size six tennis shoe up her ass if she does.  

Thanks, Larry, by the way for the link back.  I honestly cannot think of any team on the short list of buyers for bullpen help that has a MAJOR league ready SS to fit the bill.  

You're out in Colorado though. What would take to get Barmes?  He's had a horrible year and Tulo has cemented his position.  Why not take a flier on Barmes and see if he can reproduce the pre-deer meat numbers?

by Brock20 on Jul 16, 2007 11:10 AM EDT   0 recs

nothing more relaxing than refereeing fights
between the wife and the mom. i gotta side with mom here --- she gets to root for whoever she wants.

barmes is worth bringing into the discussion, but i'm not a fan. his pre-deer-meat stats were just a fluke, i think --- he was never as good as all that, just got hot at the right time. sort of like bo hart with more power. his career minor-league OPS is only .752, and he doesn't draw walks --- this year only 17 in ~350 plate appearances. he's no longer even that young --- turned 28 this spring.

i'd just as soon have ryan out there. at least he's got superior skills in one aspect of the game (defense), and he's 3 yrs younger than barmes.

by lboros on Jul 16, 2007 12:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But Alex Gonzalez...
...plays for the Reds. Alex Cora?

by willievinceterry on Jul 16, 2007 12:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the speculation on '08 and beyond
must also include who the GM and manager of this team is going to be.  Someone in the front office is going to have to get some solid answers from Walt and Tony on their 08-09 plans.  If Tony is sticking around, why would you acquire any young, unproven players?  If Tony is moving on, then we could save a little money by losing guys like Taguchi, Miles, Maroth and Izzy. Younger, cheaper players could definitely fill their roles (except Izzy) without any drop in performance. Given the current payroll situation and team standing, a premium closer is a luxury we can't afford.

by lefty fan on Jul 16, 2007 11:29 AM EDT   0 recs

That is true. If LaDunc is coming back it will
make no sense to trade for anything but a veteran. I wish Mr. DeWitt would force their hand....at least Jocketty would have to emerge from the witness protection program......

by jillsinmo on Jul 16, 2007 11:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Buster Olney
made an off-hand remark yesterday about keeping an eye on the Cincinnati front office/managerial situation(something's brewing, he says). The names he mentioned as strong candidates: Jocketty and TLR; evidently because they're friends with the owner Robert Castellini, who used to be part of the Cardinals' ownership group.
"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 16, 2007 12:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe it will take them getting TLR and Walt...
..."traded" for some people to appreciate them. I, for one, don't want to see them go to Cincinnati or anywhere else within the division.

by willievinceterry on Jul 16, 2007 12:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There you go!
That's a trade chip.  Remember when the D-Rays traded Randy Winn away to get Sweet Lou?

What do you think we could get for Tony?

by Valatan on Jul 16, 2007 12:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs