Cardinals Aquire Maroth

by alecoholics on Jun 22, 2007 1:42 PM EDT Comment 89 comments

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/06/cardinals-acqui.html

Just saw it break on ESPN; still unknown who was sent over to Detroit from us. He isn't a free agent until after 2008. They are guessing we sent over one of our relievers. With Rogers and Robertson coming back, they saw Maroth being the odd man out.

Update [2007-6-22 14:35:59 by lboros]: link to derrick goold's article on the deal:

The Cardinals acquired the lefty for players to be named later.

Maroth, who is 5-2 this season with a 5.06 ERA, was about to be displaced from the Tigers rotation with the return of Kenny Rogers tonight and the pending arrival of Nate Robertson. . . . Through 13 starts this season, Maroth has allowed 97 hits and 33 walks over 78 1/3 innings.

here is maroth's baseball reference page. his calling card has always been control --- career bb/9 of 2.4 coming into the season, an excellent figure --- but he hasn't been getting it over the plate this year, averaging 3.8 walks per 9, or 50 percent more than his career norm. and his control has been getting worse, not better --- 16 walks in his last 31 innings, or 4.6 bb/9.

he ain't a world-beater, but he can throw innings, and he ought to be able to survive against nl lineups: his career era vs the national league is 3.75 in 18 starts (a full run lower than his overall career era), and his career ops allowed is 40 points lower vs nl teams than vs al teams.

all in all it's a sensible pickup, adding stability and flexibilty to the rotation at what will likely be little cost to the organization.

Update [2007-6-22 15:8:52 by lboros]: i've attached a poll; click on "comments" to see the choices and cast your vote.

Update [2007-6-22 15:18:12 by lboros]: the tiger fans at Bless You Boys are sorry to see maroth go.

Poll

Which of the following do you think is most likely to be one of the PTBNLs in the deal?

Dennis Dove

58 votes

Troy Cate

46 votes

Mark Worrell

20 votes

Kelvin Jimenez

22 votes

Todd Wellemeyer

1 votes

Braden Looper

12 votes

Anthony Reyes

17 votes

Russ Springer

14 votes

Some dude in A ball

50 votes

Tyler Johnson

32 votes

272 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 89 comments

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Comments

An upgrade

He's no ace, but he's better than Wells, Wellemeyer, Ohka, or just about anyone on the staff not named Wainwright.

A couple of 200+inning seasons under his belt. Lefty. Still only 29, and signed through 2008 I believe. If the price was right, sounds good.

by blove121 on Jun 22, 2007 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Every article I've read

Listed him as 30 years old. Including I believe the PD article and mlb trade rumors article. However, they could just be rounding up.

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Jun 22, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he had a good start against MIL

a couple of weeks ago. He's gone 7-8 innings a bunch of times and pitches to contact, albeit very very hard contact. He'll be better than Wellemeyer for sure, and if Wells reverts to form, he'll be better than him too. Whether it's good or bad will mostly depend on what it cost.

At least it's a sign that WJ isn't ready to give up on our boys just yet!

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 22, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wicked retarded.

That is awesome. I was excited about the rumor in december about us getting maroth an thames for Looper and Juancion. This is freakin awesome

That's what she said

by kyle man on Jun 22, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is freaking awesome

Yeah... it's something.

This is like 1988, only without Jim Lindeman. Could we get Jim Lindeman, please?

by Alxfritz on Jun 22, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bee's Knee's

This is...making me...hyperventilate..

Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 22, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a glimmer of hope

we needed an arm desparately. the thought of whether to start ohka or wells was giving me a stomach ache

by tdub on Jun 22, 2007 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

Thompson,Juan/or springer? for Maroth,Thames?

by Calhoun on Jun 22, 2007 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rumor going around is that it is bigger

Encarnacion and Looper for Maroth and Thames.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait

are we in december again?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 22, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looper hasn't been traded....

He's injured and on the DL. So, doubt there's a lot of need for an injured pitcher....

by joeyart on Jun 22, 2007 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

actually

it'd make perfect sense if it were Looper. The bullpen is where the Tigers need help. And the fact that it's a player to be named later suggests it's someone on the DL.

by DCGreg on Jun 22, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm pretty sure its just maroth

by jojo5492 on Jun 22, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

that maroth/thames for enc/looper is just carried over from the rumor from november. it will just be maroth.

by tdub on Jun 22, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope we gave up a minor league arm

not a current reliever.
Like Ginter, Dove, Or Mike Smith.

"Left-hander, right-hander, soft thrower, power guy, fastballs away, fastballs in-- [Albert Pujols] doesn't have any holes." - Tino Martinez

by _pistol_ on Jun 22, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it is a minor league arm...

i'm pretty certain PTBNL are almost never players on the major league roster unless they are on the DL.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you look at his comparables through

age 28, it gives a reference to Jeff Weaver I think. It might be his little brother though.

Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 22, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OK, I can see how

he can be helpful. I can't get excited enough for the full WOO HOO, but I'll give it a Woo.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 22, 2007 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What is Maroth's stuff?

what velocity is his fastball?

Maroth's major problem is control. If Duncan could rectify Wellemeyer's control problems, I could see him doing the same with Maroth.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

soft tosser

I think he tops out at 90.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

then the 'just throw strikes, damnit' approach for 96 mph Hindenburg doesn't work.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is a softer tosser than that....

... but has a decent overall arsenal.

He sits 84-86 with good movement on his fastball, I dont know he touches higher than 87 or 88.

He has a good curve and good change as well. The change especially is useful for him in keeping people off his below average fastball.

He needs his control to be on to succeed. If he gets behind in counts batters can sit on his fastball and destroy it. Thats why he has had HR issues this year.

by grozzy on Jun 23, 2007 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maroth for PTBNL

According to the Post Dispatch, it is a player to be named later going to Detroit.

link to story

by 126Curve on Jun 22, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Cardinals acquired the lefty for

"players to be named later"

More than 1.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah...

that was I was trying to say in the other thread...I don't see them giving up Maroth for JUST one pitcher like a Dennis Dove...I think we had to give them a couple of players..

by Timbo02 on Jun 22, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

stlcardinals.com says "In exchange, Detroit will receive a player to be named later."

Who's got it right?

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Jun 22, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by the way

heres the article: http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=2042251&vkey=news_ stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Jun 22, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he's a better fit with StL than with Detroit

Maroth'll be pitching in the NL, and he'll be pitching with a vastly superior defense behind him.

by Valatan on Jun 22, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

he's best chance for success in the NL as a soft-tossing lefty is against the St. Louis Cardinals, which isn't going to happen. :D

Looking at the schedule, he next possible start will probably be Tuesday against the Mets. His 'day' is really Saturday, but no way they break up the Reyes-Wainwright-Wells combo against the Phillies.

So, Maroth will have to go into Shea and pitch against the Mets, a team that RAKES against LHP.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're wrong...

the Mets are notoriously TERRIBLE against LHP.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um

as far as NL teams against LHP, they are

BA - 1st
SLG - 3rd
OBP - 1st

I wish the Cardinals were that terrible against lefties.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Must've improved this year then...

because last year I remember they were nearly as poor as the Cardinals against LHP's.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is possible

in 2007, the splits go

LHP RHP Diff for RHP OBP .357 .330 -.027 SLG .436 .406 -.030 BA .258 .301 -.043

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was surprised too

pretty much typed the same post abstl did, then went to check the numbers first ;) In the off-season I was really pushing for Wolf because, as a decent lefty, I thought he'd be an important playoff piece against NYM...

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 22, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like to post first...

and research later! haha, or post first, and then be proven wrong like was the case here. :D

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well damn...

but still, having a LH Starter is nice.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is a good fit for the NL

he won't be great, but he should give us, at least, league average production from 1 spot in the rotation. He's a ground ball pitcher who's walked 2.3 batters per 9 innings throughout his career. He doesn't strike many out but he doesn't walk people, he keeps the ball in the park, and he gets ground balls. He should do just fine.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Looking at his videos on MLB.com

it seems he relies ALOT on his change/curveball as an 'out' pitch. Meaning, getting ahead and using it to get groundballs.

It's in the 71-76 mph range. Didn't see him throw a single fastball in any of that.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He would cream us

interestingly, from the p-d article on the trade, it says that Ohka gets 2 starts at AAA for the Cards to decide whether to call him up or turn him loose as a free agent. After watching him pitch the other night in Round Rock, he's going to have to improve mightily in his next start to be worthy of a call up.

I just found that clause interesting.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Percival has the same clause

if they don't call him up by Monday, he'll be let go.

I can't see them letting him go like that. My bet is Percival and Maroth will be up, Cavazos and Cate will go down and either Wellemeyer or Thompson goes back to the pen.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

Percival will be up. He also pitched on Wednesday and looked much better than Ohka (obviously) though I was surprised he wasn't throwing harder than he was. He never got it above 92 on the gun.

That said, if you apply the old adage that the hitters will tell you how the pitcher looks, they were completely overmatched. Only 1 batter, Jason Lane, even hit the ball hard against Percival and it was a hard-hit grounder to 3rd.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Percival...

never really threw all that hard.

He threw hard enough to make his changeup devastating.

by whopperman on Jun 22, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His changeup was quite good

it came in at 75-76 so it was a good 15-16 mph less than his fastball. He had no walks and 1 HBP.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can I add

that I love the Rotoworld reports on Cardinal players and farmhands on the top, right-hand side of the page. Very nice!

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I particularly like the large, readable font type.

"Left-hander, right-hander, soft thrower, power guy, fastballs away, fastballs in-- [Albert Pujols] doesn't have any holes." - Tino Martinez

by _pistol_ on Jun 22, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Maroth

has the potential to be much better than he's proven. He hasn't really come back after his shoulder injury early last season, but if you'll remember back he was pitching like an Ace before he went down. I believe Mike Maroth will provide much needed stability as a guy who will be out there for 6 innings every night.

When I heard the Tigers were shopping him, I was hoping the Cardinals might put in a bid and then I heard he was sent to Atlanta for Macay McBride later to find out that wasn't the case. So I think this is a very smart move for the Cardinals right now.

by mynameistyler on Jun 22, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ledezma was traded for McBride

not Maroth.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you would like...

to continue reading the post, you will notice the end of that sentence that goes something like "I later realized that was not the case."

A bad post from no research and a bad post from not reading all in the same thread.

by mynameistyler on Jun 22, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ease up junior...

i read the whole post, i was just pointing out who macay mcbride actually did get traded for.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think ace is stretching it

In 04-05 he was a nice mid-rotation innings eater. That's not a slam by they way, those guys go for about 8-10 million a year now on the free agent market so if we can work him back to his former averageness that would be quite valuable.

by mikedallas23 on Jun 22, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mid rotation innings eater...

i'll take that every day. especially one who throws left handed.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ace is...

stretching it, but oh well. I'm mainly referencing his performance early in 2006 before his shoulder began to bother him heavily.

If you look at his gamelog from 2006, you see where he pitched only one third of an inning on May 25th, this is when his shoulder took him out.

Prior to that date, he was 5-2 in his 8 starts, going less than six innings only twice in that span (once being the first start of the season) while carrying a 2.45 ERA by the end of that stretch. His K/BB wasn't great, still, at 22/14 but the maintain an ERA like that for the a month in the AL Central is pretty impressive to me. I simply like to think of what might have been, you know... overly optimistic for no reason.

by mynameistyler on Jun 22, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

6 innings every night ?!?

OK by me, at least until Carpenter comes back, then we should let Carp pitch every 5th night or so.

by Keep your hands off on Jun 22, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ohka and Maroth in the same rotation?

Will MLB allow that? Doesn't really seem fair to the rest of the league...

by birdjam on Jun 22, 2007 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope not

let's just go w/ Maroth and see what else we an come up with.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maroth and Mulder

The Cards now have the market cornered on average-to-above-average lefties with the initials "M.M."

by birdjam on Jun 22, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MM

We've been down in the MM department lately, which probably is a reason we made this deal. Gone are the days of Mark Mulder, Mike Matheny and Matt Morris. It's a desperate attempt to bring back the key to the 2004 season.

by Cardinal70 on Jun 22, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

it feels like we've entered the trading deadline already . . .

a possibility of 3 new aquisitions on our MLB team in one week? this is madness!

but seriously, assuming the PTBNLs are relievers we don't need, this is a great deal. If we still have Looper after this, that makes a possible rotation of Carp - Mulder - Maroth - Looper - Wainwright. How can that not excite you when the Brew Crew is the team leading our division?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 22, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Maroth

He usually is a control pitcher. So he has to get the BB's down. If he can, he can be a very solid 3-4 starter, especially in the NL central.

Problem is, until Carp gets back, he's probably our best starter. He's obviously the most experienced guy we have now.

by silent_bob on Jun 22, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sadly

The Joe Mather era may be over. Maroth is clearly a bigger acquisition than Snapper was last season when the Angels DFA'd him.

It'd be nice if we offered them one from Column A, including Mather, and one from Column B with the Lamberts of the system.

Good pickup, though. I'd like to see him going on a (circa 2001) Woody Williams-esque run the rest of the way. The 0.85 K:BB is concerning, although as someone pointed out, Wellemeyer's done a fine job limiting the free passes since joining the staff. (Who do you need to walk in the NL Central?)

by liam on Jun 22, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tigs have no use for Mather

it's going to be minor league pitchers most likely.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 22, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My guess...

with a PTBNL, it might be someone we just drafted, since they have a window in which they cannot be traded. I'd have to think one of our hard throwers will also be gone, probably Dove, Lambert, or Jimenez. This will be interesting; I like the pickup, but I hope we didn't throw away anybody too promising. I'm withholding judgment until I see who we had to give up, but on first glance it looks good for the birds.

by sdangler on Jun 22, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Cardinals MLB Site..

The Cardinals MLB site has the following: The Cardinals are expected to announce Friday afternoon that they have acquired southpaw stater Mike Maroth from the Detroit Tigers for a player to be named later. Maroth, 29, was 5-2 with a 5.06 ERA in 13 starts with the Tigers this season. I would think that would be a pretty official announcement and it states only A PLAYER to be named later not players. That makes me think it would be someone like Denis Dove since he fits right in with the gas their bullpen has.

by Mrthe2th on Jun 22, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why is TJ

on the DL? What did he hurt?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

TJ on the DL

could be the PTBNL, if I understand the rules correctly. You can't trade a guy on the DL, and the Tigers have a roster numbers crunch right now, so the Cards might be putting TJ on the DL to give the Tigers some time to sort out their roster. Does this make sense to anybody besides me?

by CardFaninVA on Jun 22, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope not

I really hope not.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It does, but

why is TJ on the DL? The Tigers have wanted a lefty reliever for some time. W/ Cate being called up, this makes a lot of sense to me. I'd rather send them Dove but you've got to give up something to get something.

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah...

I'd bet it's someone from the low minors, probably someone picked up in the 2006 draft. Maybe a Buckman, Hamilton, Norrick... That team needs a 1st sacker and we got 'em.

by guayzimi on Jun 22, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matthew Leach's Article on MLB.com about the trade

says the following: "The Tigers will scout a number of players in the Cardinals farm system from a list the teams have agreed upon. They'll then have their choice of player later in the year."So, it looks like it will be someone down on the Farm who will get picked and we will not know who for a while.

by Mrthe2th on Jun 22, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Zambrano's struck out 7 through 3 innings

w/ a perfect game thus far.

by azruavatar on Jun 22, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

damn I'm good

Iguchi singles.

Still 7K though 3 inning. . . pretty impressive.

by azruavatar on Jun 22, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

color me whelmed

maroths' periphs are rather grizzly right now, esp. considering his park and the defense he has behind him. he's trending down, not good. if they lose mather or anything somewhat considerable, then color me ticked about this deal. if they give up a c grade prospect like Jason Motte or something, then "myeh, whatever."

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jun 22, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

TJ on DL

This probably doesn't warrant an entire diary. The official press release on Maroth states that TJ was placed on the DL retroactive to June 19 for "left biceps tendinitis."

by cardsgirlinAR on Jun 22, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who does Maroth replace on the 25/40 man rosters.

Esposito on the 40 man?

TJ on the active roster?

by azruavatar on Jun 22, 2007 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Preston Wilson

can't they shift him to the 60-day DL and free up the spot?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 22, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

by chuckb on Jun 22, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is the 40-man full right now?

n/t

by saladdays on Jun 22, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wilson

Why can't (or don't) we just release Wilson outright? Isn't he out for the season on a 1 year contract?

by Fitz on Jun 22, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he's on

The DL I think the insurance pays for it.

He's on Workers Comp

by Harknights on Jun 22, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, is seems like it's worth a shot...

I know Looper is on the DL, and we have to be concerned about how serious his injury might be-because his last few starts before he went on the DL didn't look so good. I also think they just told us that Mulder isn't going to be back this season by this acquisition.

by jillsinmo on Jun 22, 2007 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tigers needed pen help = TJ?

No secret there, but this Crasnick article from espn.com streeses the Tigers need for pen help. Don't you think they would have at least wrested a ML reliever from the Cards when everyone knows how desperate we are for a SP?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2912050

I hope that this does not all add up to TJ, but I am not so confident. Him going on the DL is a little too much of a coincidence.

by pitchout487 on Jun 22, 2007 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I dunno...

now that I look at Maroth's recent history a little more closely, I don't see the Cards giving up a high-ceiling prospect, or someone off the major league roster like TJ. Maybe a Dove or Cate.

Maroth has been awful of late, as bad or worse than Weaver was last year with the Angels.

by guayzimi on Jun 22, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs