Game 64 Open Thread: June 15, 2007, 9:05 pm CDT

by lboros on Jun 15, 2007 7:23 PM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News


looper	haren
6-5, 4.12	7-2, 1.58

GAME TIME 9:05 CDT

i understood the rationale behind the haren trade. it hasn't worked out well (to say the last), and those who panned it at the time as a disaster were 100 percent correct. but i can't condemn jocketty for making it. for one thing, i'd be a hypocrite --- i thought it was a reasonable gamble to take at that time. the cardinals were in win-now mode heading into 2005, with walker, morris, sanders, and carpenter all heading into the final year of their contract and matheny and williams already having left. at the time of the trade, the only pitchers under contract beyond '05 were suppan and marquis; it looked like '05 might be their last, best chance for a while. so the cards went for it --- consciously wagered the future hoping to cash in on the present.

moreover, at that time the rotation was thought to need a true #1. chris carpenter wasn't regarded as one yet --- he hadn't won any cy young awards as of december 2004, hadn't pitched in the playoffs, hadn't won 20 games in a season or put up a sub-3.00 era. nobody knew for sure if his 2004 numbers (15-5, 3.46 era) represented an aberration or a new level of ability. his stature was nowhere near that of mark mulder, who was brought here to give the cardinals a fighting chance in the playoffs against someone like clemens, schilling, or big unit.

the cards had a chance to win a championship, and they went for it; they had a weakness at the top of the rotation and they addressed it aggressively. it was costly, but with wainwright and reyes in the pipeline, the cardinals thought they could afford to lose haren . . . . . i'm not going to sit here and tell you it was a good trade, because it obviously set the organization back. but i also don't think jocketty was blind to that cost; he weighed the tradeoff and made the gamble, and as it turned out the cards already had an ace on the roster --- and if they hadn't, mulder wouldn't have filled the bill anyway.

whatever; you pays your money and you takes your chances.

so here's a pointless, painful exercise: suppose dan haren had stayed with the cardinals and had put up the exact same stats for st louis that he did for the athletics. where would he rank on the all-time franchise leaderboard? he would have qualified just this year for inclusion on those lists, which require a minimum of 75 career decisions; haren now has 78 (split between the a's and cards), and he passed the 500-inning minimum last season. a quick look:

K/BB ratio: haren (3.10) would rank third, behind carpenter and bob tewksbury; cy young ranks 4th, darryl kile 5th.
WHIP: haren (1.197) would rank 15th, just ahead of woody williams and two spots behind gibson
adjusted era+: haren (117) would be tied for 22d with woody williams and jumbo mcginnis, and just ahead of matt morris. bob gibson's era+ was 127; darryl kile's, 124; jeff suppan's, 109.
h/9: haren (8.61) would be tied for 33d with lynn mcglothen
winning pct: haren (.526) would be tied for 40th with john denny.

that ought to give everyone plenty to regret for the rest of the evening.

i've completed my jury service; the case ended in a conviction on all counts. i'll put the details in a diary, for any who are curious.

also, be sure to drop by Athletics Nation, the flagship blog of SB Nation and one of the best blog communmities on the web.

Tweet Comment 231 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

i have a admiration of haren

just cause he signed my ball alone at a m's game and i had a birds jersey on..it seemed he rewarded my baseball knowledge as i was the only one who knew who he was without his name showing

Kelly Stinnett the new power to the cards lineup.

by punchinjudy on Jun 15, 2007 7:29 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah I'm with you...

I liked the Mulder deal.

SF got ripped off worse with the Pierzynski deal. We still have that...

by guayzimi on Jun 15, 2007 8:04 PM EDT reply actions

I'll be there tonight

I can't really root against Haren, but maybe he can lose 2-1, or the bullpen can cough it up for him...

And Sunday shapes up to be one of those days you dream about as a Dad (and Cardinal fan). The wife and kids and I are going to the game for Father's Day.

My 4 year old has bought into my brainwashing and loves all things Cardinals. My middle one, the 3 year old, loves the A's (they wear green, his favorite color). And the young one - 6 months - will be in his Cardianl finest.

A Cards game on Father's Day in the Bay Area. Tailor-made for me...

2006 World Champs! Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 15, 2007 8:05 PM EDT reply actions

I, too, thought it was a good deal

I guess I can't speak for anyone else but I thought we were getting a top of the line starter in Mulder. It seems to me that most of the people who disagreed with the trade at the time hated giving up Barton. Not me, I didn't see where he'd play in St. Louis. He may yet become a very good player but he's far from a sure thing.

Clearly, giving up Haren was what hurt. It was certainly a gamble worth taking -- sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug. Schuerholz certainly got the better end of the Hudson deal so you never know.

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 8:12 PM EDT reply actions

speaking of athletics nation

they have the updates that were promised to this site like forever ago. what happened?

by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 15, 2007 8:29 PM EDT reply actions

Mark my words

Haren is getting LIT up tonight, 7 ERs.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 15, 2007 8:32 PM EDT reply actions

i don't think so

i think he throws a no-no. i really really do.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions

well

technically, both could happen.

by tomsteele on Jun 15, 2007 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I never liked Mulder...

He actually did better than I thought he would in St. Louis, but it seemed obvious we were getting damaged goods. Everything about Mulder's stats said "Keep away".

But that said, I really don't think Haren would have been as successful here. While I don't think he would have had Reyes-like struggles, because he simply has better stuff than Reyes, I do think he would clash somewhat with Duncan's pitching philosophy. Veterans can compromise somewhat with Duncan, but he tries to mold rookies too much.

That's even if he got a shot. I mean, he pitched more for the Cardinals in 2003 than 2004, which is just baffling. This team is just terrible at giving young pitchers a shot at starting, while running out other teams discards.

by DiscoJer on Jun 15, 2007 8:39 PM EDT reply actions

They really act like they are AFRAID of

Rookie pitchers. They have a terrible track record on guiding young pitchers through their early starts. But if you go back and look at Haren's early record with the Cards, it tracks with Reyes's early record--including good World Series appearances. Except Haren didn't lose quite as many games, and you could reasonably argue that Reyes shouldn't have lost so many either....the owners are not going to go buy any decent pitching; they HAVE to develop their own, and then be willing to stick with the ups and downs that go with it. Wainwright has had some ups and downs, and they are being patient with him and it looks like he's going to be a decent pitcher. They need to look at Reyes and what he CAN do instead of looking at him and only seeing what he CAN'T do. He should be learning his craft up here-that's the only way they'll know if he's got it.

by jillsinmo on Jun 15, 2007 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions

i need more direction

well from advice from this board i got my mulder Mcfarlane and now have all of them including Ozzie...however i do not have the maris...he played 2 yrs as a bird..do i get him or not, and does anyone maybe have an extra that i dont need to bid on?

Kelly Stinnett the new power to the cards lineup.

by punchinjudy on Jun 15, 2007 8:44 PM EDT reply actions

Re: The Mulder Trade

The cardinals were in a rut of making the playoffs and losing to a more formidable top-heavy rotation every year. They tried to match that blue print. In the '04 offseason, if someone would have approached them saying we'll give you a starter who will pitch to the tune of a 2.47 ERA in the '05 playoffs, Haren/Kiko/Barton would have just been the start.

F Roy Oswalt.

by Jonathan23 on Jun 15, 2007 8:59 PM EDT reply actions

how can we complain?

I for one was stoked about the Mulder deal. It was made with the intent of winning us a title. Maybe it didn't work that way, but we still got the title even w/o the help of the guy who was supposed to help us reach that goal. I guess it'd be nice to have the title AND Haren...but maybe if we had Haren he wouldn't have developed into what he is now...or maybe we wouldn't have had Reyes and/or Weaver pitching in the postseason. Those two played quite a part in winning us our title. I'd say it all worked out fine.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Jun 15, 2007 9:35 PM EDT reply actions

Haren

I have Haren on my Fantasy Team so a 1-0 Cardinals win with a Izzy Save (also on my team) would be nice...

GO CARDS

by BSell81 on Jun 15, 2007 9:35 PM EDT reply actions

can't tolerate this

and I am more and more irritated with each passing day that Jimenez and the guy that has 11 losses are still on the roster. I'm going to keep checking every day, but this really... for lack of a better word... sucks.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jun 15, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions

I've been checking the p-d all day

for updates. But the team is off Monday. Maybe that's the ideal day to make a move. If they call up Reyes, he can't pitch until Tuesday anyway I guess.

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I waited for the lineups to be posted

in gameday - and checked the bench and available pitchers. and sighed.

yeah, maybe Monday will bring some better news. but I was hoping moves might be made in the heat of the moment last night, but that maybe we just wouldn't hear about them until today.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jun 15, 2007 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

in the immortel words of Al Bundy,,,

this sucks,

this bites,

this blows.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions

#19

does anyone have any recent pictures, or links to said pictures, of "evil" Tyler Johnson? I want to scare my girlfriend. I looked through the Yahoo official AP photos of the past couple of games but there was nothing there.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jun 15, 2007 10:04 PM EDT reply actions

SWEET

I WAS WRONG. i'm so happy.

now please, PLEASE don't let that be tht last one.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:11 PM EDT reply actions

that was f-ugly!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions

Rolen just doesn't drive the ball anymore!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions

Guess which pitcher

has walked more batters per 9 IP than any other in baseball!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:19 PM EDT reply actions

does he pitch for the Cards?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Unfortunately, yes

but, hopefully, not anymore!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions

well that just gave the answer away

nice hustle Juan.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions

My hero!!

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 10:26 PM EDT reply actions

It's nice

to have someone other than Albert who can really drive the ball!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:26 PM EDT reply actions

man that's a big park

Dunk KILLED that ball and it only got to the warning track. juan found his way around and scored. pile on Wild Turkey. pile on.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:27 PM EDT reply actions

that's a big hit!

way to go Aaron!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:34 PM EDT reply actions

My oh Miles

I think he lost something when he shaved the goatee. Now that it's growing back he's a force to be reckoned with. A 5'6" Sampson.

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jun 15, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions

Nice hit Miles.

but you still screwed Adam the other night.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions

just what the Dr ordered Miles

two out RBIs rule.

Miles seams to always do something well when he plays. I'm telling you if he plays like this all year, AK won't be the Cards starting second baseman in 08. I want him to stay on the bench, but he's playing better than AK. you got to give Miles the nod over AK as long as he keeps hitting.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions

where the hell was miles playing?

it looked like he was out having a conversation w/ Juan!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:42 PM EDT reply actions

Loop with half as many pitches as Haren

Nice to face the minimum through to. Let's score more.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jun 15, 2007 10:44 PM EDT reply actions

nice job, Jimmy

laid off of 4 straight splitters there!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions

Jimmy baseball!!

Tony can lick me. Jimmy of all players gives everything.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 10:48 PM EDT reply actions

don't hurt yourself Jimmy

good hustle dude.

any one here if Tony talked to Jimmy today?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:48 PM EDT reply actions

Nice running Jimmy

From the looks of things he'd be even money in a foot race with the exciting Jose Reyes.

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jun 15, 2007 10:48 PM EDT reply actions

guess what, guys,

we know we're sitting under th broadcast booth!!!!

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions

careful LOOP

Be careful

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions

2 strike double.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:00 PM EDT reply actions

FRICK

Rolen looks like he can't even bend down to tie his shoes. granted it was by him, but still. ugh.

stop the bleeding right here LOOP.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:00 PM EDT reply actions

Does Oakland refuse to take you

unless you're one of the ugliest guys in the league? They need Ezekiel Astacio and their team would be complete!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:02 PM EDT reply actions

Rolen - wtf????

I saw him (in person) give up on like that on TWO balls down the line vs. the Angels last weekend. What happened to diving? Or caring?

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:02 PM EDT reply actions

my kingdom,

my kingdom for average hight middle infielders!

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:02 PM EDT reply actions

i know it's supposed to add to our enjoyment

of the game to hear the noise of the crowd, but can't we enclose the broadcast booth so that we don't have to listen to the Oakland Yahoos?

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 11:03 PM EDT reply actions

leadoff walks

come back to haunt you every time!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:03 PM EDT reply actions

the thing that

bothers me the most is that looper had the count 0-2 and shoke off bennett, four pitches later a player is standing on first

by truemun12 on Jun 15, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I think...

that he had the 1st 3 hitters 0-2...pathetic!

by buzzburton33 on Jun 15, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

When did Loopers fastball

start topping out at 89-90? I swear every pitcher that comes here losses their fastball.

by DriverZn on Jun 15, 2007 11:05 PM EDT reply actions

step right up, folks. . .

doubles for EVERYONE!!!!!!

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 11:07 PM EDT reply actions

when our starters lose it, they dont f around

they really lose it.

i knew the A's had a good line up, but I was hopeful LOOP could contain them for at least 6 innings.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:08 PM EDT reply actions

Over/under on runs allowed

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:08 PM EDT reply actions

this inning

or in the whole game?

by looper or by the team?

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

so how long does Tony stick with him?

after using the entire bullpen last night and with us using the pen for 4+ innings per night, is Looper going to have to pull a Marquis tonight?

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:10 PM EDT reply actions

Admit it.

They are a sub .500 team, playing like one. No surprises here.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:10 PM EDT reply actions

What can Bennett

POSSIBLY have to say to Looper??

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 11:10 PM EDT reply actions

Hey loop!

I just did this 24 hours ago. It ain't easy squatting for 300 pitches! Get someone out, goddammit!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Reminds me of the MCarver and Gibson story.

Tim walks out to the mound to talk to Gibby and Gibby yells at Timto go back to home plate. The quote is something like this:"The only thing you know about pitching is you can't hit it."

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions

How about...

...an out?

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

Yes, an out would be ever so nice...

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Or two is Ok too

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

what is

this out you speak of

by truemun12 on Jun 15, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

It's this thing...

..in a game....when the pitcher either gets three strikes or makes the hitter hit it to one of our fielders....It's incredible when it really happens....honest

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions

thank god for small favors

even a broken clock's right twice a day!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

has there even been a visit to the mound?

gameday shows 6 runs, 0 outs, and 0 visits to the mound. this pitching staff is atrocious.

Cardinals' record when Wells or Reyes start: 2-21. Record for all other starters: 26-14.

by willievinceterry on Jun 15, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

Now WHAT is Looper grinning about?

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

Good gum.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Have to admit

I'm quasi-rooting for Haren to take this one. I want for him to win the Cy Young over Beckett.

Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 15, 2007 11:13 PM EDT reply actions

If only we had a starter that was more effective

The 2nd time though the lineup. The 2nd and 3rd at bat numbers against Looper and Wells are nuts.

by DriverZn on Jun 15, 2007 11:13 PM EDT reply actions

Looper's

Arm must be shot. Thats what will happen when you try and turn a career reliever into a starter.

From the looks...

Wells - Done
Loop - Done
Thompson - Tossup
Wellemeyer - Tossup
Wainwright - Improving

Dump wells to the pen. Release Jiminez. Callup Reyes. Release Wells. Call up Percival.

by El Hombre on Jun 15, 2007 11:15 PM EDT reply actions

just fiddling through stats on Baseball Prospectus

while I endure this misery. On our pitching staff, 7 of the top 9 pitchers in terms of VORP are relievers. Part-time starter Brad Thompson is 10th. Ryan Franklin is #1 -- our best pitcher this year, so far. That's fucking discouraging!

Kip Wells is almost 19 runs worse than a replacement pitcher would be. IOW, we could replace him w/ Randy Keisler, Hawksworth or just about any other scrub and be better off -- by quite a bit!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:16 PM EDT reply actions

Guess who's been the worst

pitcher in the NL this year, in terms of VORP!!!

As luck would have it, Jeff Weaver's been even worse than Wells -- 2nd worst in all of baseball.

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

this rotation...

...is so unbelievably bad. duncan, jocketty, and ownership owe everyone a huge apology for subjecting us to this garbage on a nightly basis. i could see this team going 34-65 from here on out and losing 100 games.

Cardinals' record when Wells or Reyes start: 2-21. Record for all other starters: 26-14.

by willievinceterry on Jun 15, 2007 11:17 PM EDT reply actions

I for one

am highly insulted...mgmts philosophy for this season was & is "hey, we have our ring, were selling out this brand new stadium every game & most of those idiots will still come, lets just take a page out of the Cubs notebook, well except the ring part (HAHAHAHAHAH!)".

by buzzburton33 on Jun 15, 2007 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I can't believe

Kennedy is this fucking bad! Really bad!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:19 PM EDT reply actions

DAMMIT!!!

I thought we were off Monday, not Thursday. To me that means that Wells will be taking his turn on Tuesday!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:23 PM EDT reply actions

Look at the averages in the A's lineup

None over .290. Only two over .260. Four under .240. That hasn't prevented them from putting up the third six-plus-run inning against the Cardinals in the last ten innings.

Cardinals' record when Wells or Reyes start: 2-21. Record for all other starters: 26-14.

by willievinceterry on Jun 15, 2007 11:24 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah

they're not a good offensive club. I thought this meant we could keep them down and stay in the games.

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions

How the hell

is Kennedy supposed to get to that ball when he's playing the rover spot from slow-pitch softball?

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:26 PM EDT reply actions

good gawd

this game has gotten so bad that joel is now "interviewing' fans in the outfield bleachers. that was brutle.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:28 PM EDT reply actions

Again,

Kennedy could not even catch a case of the clap in a Thai whorehouse.

(I apologize to all Tai Cards fans and/or whores.)

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:29 PM EDT reply actions

Thanks Juan. Must be good gum.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:31 PM EDT reply actions

Tony GO GET JUAN's

ASS OUT OF THERE NOW!!

come on! if cox can jerk A Jones out of a game in the middle of an inning, you can too.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:31 PM EDT reply actions

i'm listening on the radio

did he just drop it?

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jun 15, 2007 11:31 PM EDT reply actions

um...yeah.

he was camped under it, was frightened by edmonds for some reason (i don't see why), and then he allowed the ball to glance off of his glove.

by ortic jones on Jun 15, 2007 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions

He kinda

gave up on it as Jinny was cutting behind him to back him up. Juan glanced toward Jimmy and then "jabbed" at the ball.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Jinny also known as Jimmy to most fans.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Jinny Edwards

Okay, quick... Everybody back on the bandwagon... Now back off!

by Alxfritz on Jun 16, 2007 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Enc was

about 1 foot from the ball & at the last second looked over at JED which was 10 feet away like he was gonna call him off and the ball fell right between them. by the way dan mclauglin's comment on FSN was "terrible,just terrible"

by buzzburton33 on Jun 15, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions

How depressing...

I was so excited as of wednesday night. I had Verlander and Wagonmaker in my fantasy league rotation on consecutive nights (17 ip, 1 hit), the Cards had a great all-around game, but then Thursday and Friday showed up.
I know this has been discussed to death this week, but take Wainer out of the picture and we have given up 34 runs in our last 21 innings pitched. I guess that A-Rey must not give us one of our best 5 chances to win.

by toris34 on Jun 15, 2007 11:31 PM EDT reply actions

this is just ugly.

and the brewers and cubs win. not good.

by ortic jones on Jun 15, 2007 11:35 PM EDT reply actions

And Edwards to others.

by toris34 on Jun 15, 2007 11:38 PM EDT reply actions

Albert caught looking. . .

isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse????

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 15, 2007 11:42 PM EDT reply actions

For those of you who still believe in pitching...

the LAA-LAD game has had a combined 1 hit through w/ 1 out in the bottom of the fifth.

by toris34 on Jun 15, 2007 11:43 PM EDT reply actions

i expect

the rotoworld bar tomorrow to say braden looper sucks

by truemun12 on Jun 15, 2007 11:46 PM EDT reply actions

i hate interleague play

and i hate this dang rotation

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jun 15, 2007 11:46 PM EDT reply actions

what was that?

did anybody see anything? strange.

by ortic jones on Jun 15, 2007 11:48 PM EDT reply actions

looper injured...

cavasos in.

by ortic jones on Jun 15, 2007 11:49 PM EDT reply actions

His Ego

has been injured!

by buzzburton33 on Jun 15, 2007 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah,

it looked like he just said 'i'm sick of this. get the trainer.' they didn't even examine anything.

by ortic jones on Jun 15, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Looks like we may have a spot for Reyes

Sadly, this would also mean wells stays. ugh

by DriverZn on Jun 15, 2007 11:49 PM EDT reply actions

never

I say we start tyler johnson before him

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions

We may truly be...

the worst team in baseball, because of this pitching staff and our middle infield.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 15, 2007 11:50 PM EDT reply actions

LOOP leaving quarantees

KIPPY will make his next start tuesday or wednesday.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 15, 2007 11:50 PM EDT reply actions

he just threw a pitch

and then Bennett called the medical staff out. Is it presumptuous to say he heard something or felt something when he threw a pitch? It's not good, whatever it is!

by chuckb on Jun 15, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions

Looper leaves game with bruised ego.

by saladdin69 on Jun 15, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions

lets bring

up reyes for looper and....someone else for wells

by tnek5 on Jun 15, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions

Can there be any way

that EVERY pitcher in ANY of the minor league classes in the Cardinals organization possibly be worse than whats out there now, time for some major changes, folks.

by buzzburton33 on Jun 15, 2007 11:54 PM EDT reply actions

Trade Bait

If someone thought Looper had some trade value a couple of weeks ago, we sure prooved that wrong. He has now given up as many runs as any full season in his career. I guess that was the plan to max out the value of his contract, to get two seasons in one. The best thing of using relievers from the start is it saves Tony a trip to the mound cause he's allready there.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jun 15, 2007 11:55 PM EDT reply actions

Boy does this team suck

by cardsfaninmass on Jun 15, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions

Roll over, roll over. .

now, Play Dead!

Good 2007 Cardinals.

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:02 AM EDT reply actions

i'm going to eat a late dinner

can any one give me a good reason to come back?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 12:03 AM EDT reply actions

Jenn Spiezo may show up.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

pujols'll probably hit a homerun.

by ortic jones on Jun 16, 2007 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

CAV makes a web gem

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions

AP is going to hit a homer...

against Kiko next inning. That should be fun to watch...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Of course...

I meant the 7th...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Anyone notice Cavazos hat bill?

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:09 AM EDT reply actions

Sometimes I swear the anouncers read

this blog

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

now that DP was SWEEEETTT!!!!

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:10 AM EDT reply actions

Correct me if I'm wrong but,

is Kennedy the second baseman or short right field????

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:11 AM EDT reply actions

Finally checked in

and what is with the new 6-run inning trend?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 16, 2007 12:19 AM EDT reply actions

It's a consequence of a team...

running Randy Keisler, Braden Looper, Brad Thompson, Todd Wellemeyer, and Kip Wells out to start games.

Remember this past offseason? Better to spend our money on arms at the deadline than in December... that was the conventional wisdom, iirc. Too bad we have to play about 100 games first.

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions

"Right shoulder tightness" for Looper

Whatever that means.

From McLaughlin on FSN.

by bailorg on Jun 16, 2007 12:22 AM EDT reply actions

Should be whiplash.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

oh, that makes sense...

loop's shoulder was tight. no wonder he gave up eight runs. get that baby loose, and he'll be ready to go.

anybody?

by ortic jones on Jun 16, 2007 12:22 AM EDT reply actions

Carp

go ahead and take you time...no need to rush back. Two out of five starters is still not enough.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:25 AM EDT reply actions

that hat might need an attitude adjustment.

by ortic jones on Jun 16, 2007 12:26 AM EDT reply actions

What we need to do is...

...walk more hitters.

Really. More walks and fewer K's because then we can pitch to contact...and that's been working well for us.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:27 AM EDT reply actions

boy, is the lead going to 10 again?

this is getting old quick.

by ortic jones on Jun 16, 2007 12:29 AM EDT reply actions

Frack

How many runs on aerage have the Cards given up on this trip?

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:29 AM EDT reply actions

23023123160669+7904849+74403165+4867897897531

Sorry...Had to.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Nice...

I can't even make it to the AP-Kiko showdown...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:30 AM EDT reply actions

Pitch to contact

It's like all the hitters just said "Oh you want us to hit the ball? Hell we can do that."

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:30 AM EDT reply actions

LOL, thats funny

The sad thing is its true.

by DriverZn on Jun 16, 2007 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions

and with those runs

i'm done for the night!

by tnek5 on Jun 16, 2007 12:32 AM EDT reply actions

Jimenez?!?

Right on. We still have a shot at giving up more runs to the A's tonight than the Royals last night. 8 more runs but with Jimenez on the mound I think we have a chance.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:32 AM EDT reply actions

Juan,

they gave you the glove so that you could CATCH the ball!@!!!!!!

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:33 AM EDT reply actions

Way to hustle Juan!

I mean you could have made the catch, but why risk it when its already 11-3!

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:33 AM EDT reply actions

And there goes

Bennett

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:34 AM EDT reply actions

You know, I wonder. . .

had we NOT won the Series last year,

would Duncan STILL be so sold on "Pitch to contact'?????????

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:35 AM EDT reply actions

Come on, Kelvin,

you can get closer to the batter than that.

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:36 AM EDT reply actions

Grad slam?

we haven't had one in a few days.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:37 AM EDT reply actions

I'm in

Softball games where we don't give up this many runs.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:37 AM EDT reply actions

Come on guys...

almost to 18

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:38 AM EDT reply actions

Cardinal pitching motto

"We cure hitting slumps"

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:39 AM EDT reply actions

Our pitchers and Duncan

Duncan: Ease up on the fastball and let them put it in play so you don't have to throw so many pitches.
Pitcher: But when I do that they hit the ball.
Duncan: Thats what I want.
Pitcher: Could we put a fielder in the stands because no one has been catching the home runs.

by DriverZn on Jun 16, 2007 12:40 AM EDT reply actions

Bobby Cox would have shot an ump by now.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:40 AM EDT reply actions

For no particular reason either...

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions

this is so sad

please get rid of this jimenez meatbag, along with wells...and about 2/3rds of this team.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jun 16, 2007 12:42 AM EDT reply actions

Speezio is warming up.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:45 AM EDT reply actions

oh my effing lord

the imperial is throwing up in the pen.

that sound from the west coast every one heard that sounded like a crash was the season just hitting rock bottom.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 12:45 AM EDT reply actions

$5 says Speezio has a lower ERA

at the end of this game than any Cardinal starter.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

no chance in hell

i'm taking that bet.

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jun 16, 2007 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Sweet...

Cardinal pitching has now given up 6 or more runs in 4 of the last 14 frames they've thrown...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

I can't wait

To hear what Tony thinks Edmonds did wrong this game.

"Tony what do you think about tonights game?"

"I think that if Edmonds didn't run so loud he wouldn't have scared Juan into dropping the ball. Other than that I think we did well."

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

Shut up Albie!

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:47 AM EDT reply actions

Please show Jenn, Please show Jenn.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:48 AM EDT reply actions

I picked a bad time

to join this blog.
But so far I like it better than the message board of the Cardinals' site.

by CurtFlood on Jun 16, 2007 12:48 AM EDT reply actions

So do you think

They ask if anyone wants to try a new spot?

Like So might ask to play SS just for shits and giggles.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:49 AM EDT reply actions

Hey...

That at least has the possibility of being entertaining.

by whopperman on Jun 16, 2007 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually So isn't a bad 2nd sacker

I never understood why he did play more there.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Okay Speezie is pitching

Will Kip Wells DH?

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:49 AM EDT reply actions

I'm calling it...

another six spot on the way.

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:50 AM EDT reply actions

No way is Speezer

as bad as Jiminez.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Strike 1!

What have those last two pitches been... screwballs?

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:52 AM EDT reply actions

The sidearm fastball

Fades like that naturally.

Maddux throws it a decent amount.

by whopperman on Jun 16, 2007 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Catcher signs

1 for fastball
2 for fastball
3 for fastball
4 for fastball
5 for wanting to see your wife naked

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:52 AM EDT reply actions

ahah

by El Hombre on Jun 16, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Well...

He's throwing a sinker and pitching to contact.

by whopperman on Jun 16, 2007 12:52 AM EDT reply actions

87 MPH. WOW

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:53 AM EDT reply actions

WHOA

every time you step onto the diamond, the BALL WILL FIND YOU.

just chuck it and duck Speezer, and for the love of god, please dont get hurt.

GOD SPEED The Imperial.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 12:53 AM EDT reply actions

Nice...

of course the A's aren't actually trying any more...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:53 AM EDT reply actions

Oh they are trying

...trying to GO DEEEEP!!!

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions

okay

Tomorrow it's time to do a minor blow up. I don't even care anymore. We need some new faces.

Get Wells out of the rotation. Bring down Jiminez.

Bring up Reyes. Hell, bring up Percival. We might as well. But some change needs to be made.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 16, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions

Nice catch by So

no wat Dunc, Lud or Speeze makes that.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions

Tony's not gong to like that...

just get it over speezer, no need to get fancy and risk the dog house...

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions

Get you some!!

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions

i'm calling it right now,

speezer will be ricky's king of the hill tonight.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions

Cust can't hit a breaking pitch...

to save his life. Does Speezer have anything to complement the heater?

by guayzimi on Jun 16, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions

Speez!!!!

Jimenez must be crying inside.

by El Hombre on Jun 16, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions

I know

I am

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Spiezio, our pitcher of the day

0 ER, 0 H

by DriverZn on Jun 16, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions

I called it!

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions

put him in the rotation

now!

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jun 16, 2007 12:56 AM EDT reply actions

Wow....

I can't believe Speez actually made Cust swing and miss twice...

by Petkovsek on Jun 16, 2007 12:57 AM EDT reply actions

You

must not have seen much of Cust then. LOL

by El Hombre on Jun 16, 2007 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Nice of the umps

To ignore the balk rule.

He never did come set with the runner on.

by whopperman on Jun 16, 2007 12:57 AM EDT reply actions

More like

how many times did he not balk?

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I personally

liked Speez throwing the ball to his glove four or five times while on the rubber.

by El Hombre on Jun 16, 2007 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions

I liked that too

I bet he was thinking. Why don't more pitchers do this? It's fun.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions

The entire, and I mean the ENTIRE

pitching staff is now required to grow red soul patches.

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:58 AM EDT reply actions

So,

does Speeze get a second inning????

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 12:59 AM EDT reply actions

not unless

we score 11 runs with two outs.

by Jhusk on Jun 16, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Headline tomorrow

"Duncan works wonders with Spiezio."

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 12:59 AM EDT reply actions

Haha

as much as I wanted to be posting through the speezer pitching experience, i couldn't help but rewind the whole thing and laugh out loud on my couch after every pitch he blew by the A's. That's priceless.

I'll go back to being a serious die-hard fan tomorrow, but that was a laugh that I desperately needed to help me remember that this is just a game.

Well done, speezer.

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jun 16, 2007 12:59 AM EDT reply actions

Does anyone know

Where I could find pics of Speezer's outing after the game?

Two-thirds of the world is covered by water, the rest is covered by Jim Edmonds

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jun 16, 2007 1:01 AM EDT reply actions

MLB.TV

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Check Kelvin Jiminez' Mailbox.

I am going to send him some so he can see what pitching looks like.

by El Hombre on Jun 16, 2007 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions

They aren't even fun to watch

This is not good baseball. It didn't have to come to this. It all starts with them letting three of their starters walk without adequate replacements. I KNOW they didn't want to spend the bucks to bring the big names in, I KNOW that in a normal workplace the kind of contract that average pitchers got were unreasonable. But that's the way the baseball world is right now. If Looper's hurt, or just needed a mental health time off the mound, I don't know. I'm not upset with him for not being a good starting pitcher, he appeared to give it his all. But I blame management for putting him in there with no back up plan. Everything is snowballing....they appear to have lost the will to even TRY to compete. I expect to either wake up and read about several roster moves or that Jocketty/LaRussa/Duncan have been relieved of their duties, because this team has quit.

by jillsinmo on Jun 16, 2007 1:01 AM EDT reply actions

Really that's what bugs me

watching some guys try some of the time.

Guys being asked to do too much.

and just bad baseball, like you said.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Just 12 runs guys

Thats only 6 per out.
Make Speezie a winner!

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:01 AM EDT reply actions

This is the biggest

joke of a game since the night Whitey had John Tudor pinch hit.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:03 AM EDT reply actions

This game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHI/PHI198708070.shtml

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions

snocones!

rally caps on, fellas!

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jun 16, 2007 1:05 AM EDT reply actions

Idiots.

So Bennett made Speez's a pitcher.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 1:05 AM EDT reply actions

Adam Kennedy

In play, (out)s.

"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Jun 16, 2007 1:06 AM EDT reply actions

and the game come to a mercyful end

speezer gets the game ball. if they give one out to the losing team.

i luv patty. can't say that enough.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 1:07 AM EDT reply actions

good night everyone

drive safe and don't forget to tip your waitress.

by Harknights on Jun 16, 2007 1:07 AM EDT reply actions

Another heartbreaker fellas

It really hurts when we come so close...

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:10 AM EDT reply actions

I'm expecting to see Speezio on top of

The Eastern Sports Programming Network's Cy Young Tracker.

Speezio for Cy Young

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jun 16, 2007 1:11 AM EDT reply actions

I feel dirty.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 1:13 AM EDT reply actions

Haiku

Cards blown out again
Our pitching is so bad that
Speezer was our best.

by Zubin on Jun 16, 2007 1:14 AM EDT reply actions

Any chance

a beat reporter smiles, and asks TLR or Dunc in postgame if Speez is a possibility for a start? I wonder if either would see the humor in it? I sure as hell do....

by stltxfan on Jun 16, 2007 1:20 AM EDT reply actions

that might drive Tony to throw a puppy

at the reporter who ask that question.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 16, 2007 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions

With the way the pitchers are throwing

Tony would miss the reporter and the puppy would hit a ceiling fan made of razor blades.

by saladdin69 on Jun 16, 2007 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

I must be fucking hammered

b/c Harens picture is really blurry and set in the past, and Spiezio apparently got to pitch. These are some really good whiskey sours!

Okay, quick... Everybody back on the bandwagon... Now back off!

by Alxfritz on Jun 16, 2007 1:27 AM EDT reply actions

I see that you're

Making up for lost time from when you didn't know about the whiskey sour, eh?

And yes. Spiezio is my hero.

by sirensofsilence on Jun 16, 2007 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh yeah.

And I've found that homemade sour mix is one million times better than the store bought stuff. Change, much like the song "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys", Pujols, and pulled pork, is good.

Okay, quick... Everybody back on the bandwagon... Now back off!

by Alxfritz on Jun 16, 2007 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I come home, dejected the Cardinals lose

as a scroll through the game thread I hear Speezer was warming up.

This can't be!

So I fastforward my recording.

SPEEZER THROWS NO-RUN INNING

I don't care that we lost after that.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 16, 2007 1:51 AM EDT reply actions

hallelujiah

can't wait to see this tomorrow. Lol.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 16, 2007 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I was there....

it was awesome.... the Oakland crowd didn't realize that, until tonight, Speez isn't a pitcher... It was great, and a good capper to a day at the ballpark (even crappy McAfee Colliseum)

Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 16, 2007 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Percival in Memphis tonight

pitched a scoreless inning allowing a hit and getting 2 strikeouts.

Gun reading had him at 88-92.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 16, 2007 2:03 AM EDT reply actions

For the love of god

Tell me that there is video or something of Spezio pitching tonight! I come home and find out I missed the greatest Cardinal moment of 2007.. Speez pitching a scoreless inning while the rest of the pitching staff lays an egg sums up 2007 Cardinals basball.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 16, 2007 2:15 AM EDT reply actions

Was at the game tonight

was really depressed about the score until spezio started pitching. that was definitely the highlight of the year for me. got to watch him from the front row right behind home plate since so many folks had left already. he really blew two of them by cust, hilarious. after each out he got the biggest shit-eating grin on his face i've seen on a cardinals player all year.

by yad on Jun 16, 2007 2:39 AM EDT reply actions

Network Bar

Viva El Birdos -

Game 64 Open Thread: June 15, 2007, 9:05 pm CDT

Do you like this story?

Comments