Bernie, on Reyes

by chuckb on Jun 13, 2007 10:47 AM EDT

here's the link to Bernie's new blog entry on Anthony Reyes. His point is the same that's been made on here any number of times -- he's better than what we run out there most nights, he's better w/ the 4 seamer than the 2 seamer and should be allowed to throw it, it's not the 4 seamer that gets him hurt but, rather, it's missing location that gets him hurt.

I've been a big supporter of LaRussa over the years. When fans were beating him up for 1 thing or another, I've usually agreed with him or, at least, seen his side. But as I watched the 1st 2 innings of that game last night, that's all I could stomach, I really started getting upset about this whole deal. LaRussa's profound stubbornness and spite is what is keeping Reyes in the minors -- and the team is weaker for it! Can you imagine what the players must be thinking as Thompson, Wells, and Wellemeyer run out there 60% of the time and give us 5 IP and 3-4 ER, at best? Wells would call mom and dad with an outing like that!

Reyes pitched another gem last night -- beating Milwaukee's stud pitching prospect, Yovani Gallardo, 2-1 by pitching 8 innings w/ 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 HR, and 6 K. He belongs in St. Louis, pitching to his capability. He deserves it but, more importantly, the team deserves it and the other players deserve it. LaRussa's (and Duncan's) stubbornness and spite in this matter are HURTING THE TEAM. They're smart enough to know it, too.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bernies-extra-points/2007/06/free-anthony-reyes/

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reyes did what he needed to do...

so let's get him back to stl. he didn't pout or whine, he just went out and dominated the pcl. tlr and dunc need to let the kid pitch the way he knows how to pitch.

by duckymedwick7 on Jun 13, 2007 10:48 AM EDT reply actions

Actually,

I'm impressed with the way Anthony handled his demotion. You are right-he didn't pout or whine-he pitched a gem and lost 1-0, pitched another gem that he left with an 8-2 lead that the relief pitchers coughed up and he ended with no decision, and then last night, against the other teams' ace, 8 great innings and finally a win. He let his pitching do the talking. For all the talk about 4-seamer vs. 2-seamer and what LaDunc would or would not let him throw, Anthony's only comment was, "I have nothing to say." Other people spoke on his behalf; detractors spoke up, too. Bernie M. over at the PD pretty much called him stupid. He used other words, but that was the implication. If there is a problem with situational recognition, well, isn't that where your catcher, pitching coach, manager come in? I work in education, and I'll tell you, having a sit down with someone who made a mistake is part of the learning/teaching process-if Anthony doesn't get it, I'm sorry, but you should take a look in the mirror, see if there's a way you can explain it. Anthony certainly has situation recognition of his plight right now--he certainly proved he can master AAA time and again. His minor league record from the beginning looks good-I think he knows EXACTLY what he needs to do to be a good pitcher. He's been doing it all along. Why they can stick with Adam Wainwright and his ups and downs (and I think they should) and not Anthony Reyes ups and downs just makes no sense. Most young pitchers not named Verlander need a year or two to settle in. Give Anthony his year-see if he can't translate that wonderful minor league pitching into major league success.

by jillsinmo on Jun 13, 2007 11:09 AM EDT reply actions

Amen!

by rockin redbird on Jun 13, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Thanks, bro....

I want Anthony up here to prove he's either got it or he doesn't. I'll say again, he's shown his character by doing what he needs to do-now are they going to give him the shot he's earned?

by jillsinmo on Jun 13, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

LaRussa's biggest weakness...

as a manager seems to be bringing along young pitching....
Thinking of Ankiel, Haren (who was not this good here), and Reyes...
Though I guess there is Wainwright...but still...

by joeyart on Jun 13, 2007 11:43 AM EDT reply actions

How is Haren Larussa's fault?

Haren wasn't 'THIS GOOD' in 2005 or 2006, either. His ERA went down in 2005, but then shot back up in 2006.

Haren spent much of 2004 in the bullpen, partly because the Cardinals had a pretty good starting rotation that year.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

and Haren wasn't bad at all

for a young guy. Not sure what expectations were, but he did a pretty good job. fewer H than IP, 32 K in 46 IP. If we got that out of Wainwright or Reyes we, and Tony/Dunc, would be pretty happy.

by chuckb on Jun 13, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Not to mention that

world series game 1 relief appearance. Perhaps the only bright spot of that series.

by Valatan on Jun 13, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

The thing that pisses me off...

...about Haren is that he was almost the perfect stat/scout mix for a young major league pitcher. His K rates in the minors were very good; his stuff was improving; and body was filling out to its projection. He was totally on the upswing of his career. It wasn't much of a stretch to see him developing into the pitcher he was today. Mulder on the other hand was falling apart before we even traded for him.

by BigJawnMize on Jun 13, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

he's not his fault...

But it was clear he wasn't gonna grow here...When Haren did start, LaRussa was constantly pulling him out after 80 pitches and never giving him the chance to go deep in games or be competitive...
LaRussa puts a ceiling on young pitchers...
btw by LaRussa, I mean Duncan/LaRussa...

by joeyart on Jun 13, 2007 11:55 AM EDT reply actions

Or maybe use LaDunc....

I don't know where I came across the info, I believe it was on the PD boards, but Haren's first half year in the rotation while he was in St. Louis compares almost exactly with where Adam Wainwright is right now. Except they are showing patience with Adam Wainwright; they gave up on Reyes. They really have a terrible track record with young pitchers, and really young players not named Albert. I know I sound like a broken record, because I say it almost everyday, but management that sees more upside in Wells and Wellemeyer than Reyes has a problem evaluating talent.

by jillsinmo on Jun 13, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I seriously doubt

that the management sees more upside in Wells or Wellemeyer. However, those guys are not our problems to fix. After this year they'll move on. Maybe even sooner. Reyes is ours for 3+ years and I believe there has to be more to "LaDunc's" decisions than winning a game against the royals in an off year.

the problem with reyes is (probably) mental, and they (probably) believed that leaving him in the majors to lose 20 games (or even one more game) would damage him further. Adam's problems have been physical- curve ball not curving, missing, etc. Reyes loses his confidence with men on base and that isn't going to get better by throwing him to the wolves week after week.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 13, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, but as long as Wellemeyer and Wells are

part of this team, they are our problem to fix! Reyes is not their kind of guy, and their letting that judgement hurt the team and hurt Reyes development as a major league pitcher.

by jillsinmo on Jun 13, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions

For the Reyes conspiracy theorists

I watched the Memphis game this morning and Reyes was using the 2-seam fastball alot in the game. Either that, or he was throwing knee high 4-seamers!

Anyways, the key was that he had CONTROL over the pitch down in the zone and was able to hit spots with it. Also, I don't know what the data says as far as his STL starts, but he was getting 1st pitch, knee high strikes with the 2-seamer last night, something LaDunc has to love.

So, anyways, I don't think there is any sense of 'rebellion' on Anthony's part down in Memphis. He's just getting better at doing what they want him to do.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

That came out wrong

he WAS able to strike hitters out by throwing the 4-seamer up in the zone when he got ahead, but everything was setup by the 2-seamer down.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

shhh...

... you've broken the mantra!

by kindred on Jun 13, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

R U sure it was the 2-seamer

and not the 4-seamer down in the zone?

I'm skeptical. Show me proof!

by silent_bob on Jun 13, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It is hard to show proof

as the CSS broadcast has no radar gun. He threw a pitch in the second inning that was low and away (still in the zone) with downward movement on it and one of the Brewers farmhands drilled it into the RF stands. It was one of the more impressive 'doing something with nothing' hits I've seen in awhile.

Perhaps it was the 4-seamer down in the zone, but from everything the CSS guys were saying, he was working on control on the 2-seamer and working on keeping it down in the zone. If he wasn't using that pitch, then the conspiracy grows thicker as he now has even the minor league announcers leading the cover-up!

I hope all see that this is all in good fun. Different opinions don't mean one side is 'nutjobs'.

Anyways, the most impressive thing was Reyes ability to 'pitch' and not just throw. He was setting hitters up with the low fastball. He threw quite a few 2 strike low fastballs that should have been called strikeouts, but didn't get the call. He'd then blow a 4-seamer by the guy around the letters. On of the more impressive sequences saw him show a sharp biting curveball that he couldn't keep in the zone. The next pitch, he followed it up by taking some speed and spin off of it, yet still keeping it low to freeze the hitter.

If Reyes has gotten his head right, then he should be seeing a callup very soon. Outdueling one of the Top 3 prospects in the country should be taken notice of.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

He was throwing

92-94 most of the game. The radar gun even showed 96 once, but that was probably not right, he doesn't normally throw that hard.

He got several K's with the high heat, but he did get more grounders than he normally does.

by whopperman on Jun 13, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Thats not his sinker

Which also explains why he was getting people out. His problems with runners on might simply be going to the sinker to try to get a DP and instead getting rocked on his worst pitch.

by DriverZn on Jun 13, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

If that is the case then

a) Reyes has refound his velocity

or, the more likely

b) the radar gun at Autozone was about 2 to 3 mph 'hot'.

That would put him in the usually seen 89-91 mph area, but able to dial up the 4-seamer on occasion to 93.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions

AZP Gun

Is usually 2-3 mph slow.

Yovani Gallardo, who normally throws 91-93, never got over 90 on the same gun.

by whopperman on Jun 13, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

So Reyes was throwing 95-97 mph

for most of the game? I call 'shenanigans'. 2 weeks in Memphis wouldn't add 6 mph to your fastball.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Undoing "Duncan" mechanics can

There is a reason he always pitches well in his first couble games in the majors AFTER being in the minors. Its not that he cannot get hitters out for more than one start. Its that he hasn't been "Fixed" by duncan yet.

by DriverZn on Jun 13, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Strauss discussed this today

there is nothing in his mechanics that are changed by throwing the 2-seamer.

His inability to keep the ball down is his downfall.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 13, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions

In a week?

I find that hard to believe. Mechanical problems usually take a while for a pitcher to fix.

by Valatan on Jun 13, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Nah

I think it was a little bit of an off night on Gallardo's velocity, where he threw mainly 91 that showed up as 89...and Reyes threw mainly 93 that showed up as 91.

I think the 96 was an aberration, but the gun at AutoZone is definitely a slow gun by nature, not a fast one.

Percival, FWIW, was at 88-91 on his fastball.

by whopperman on Jun 14, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

If that's the case...

then he was throwing the 4 seamer. That's the thing about the 4 seamer - it's generally 3-5 mph faster than the 2 seamer thrown by the same pitcher.

by DiscoJer on Jun 13, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Reyes

I love the guy. I think Tony and Dave have opinions about him and how he should pitch. But I really, really do not agree with the accepted belief he was sent down because he was stubborn or couldn't throw the two seam fastball. This is a business not high school, if he can help the team more in the long run by going down and learning how to pitch with runners on he will be better for it. The 2-seam debate isn't what it's about. Look at his splits with runners on. It's amazing. Nobody on, .200 BA, RISP, .347, Bases Loaded, .600, 2nd and 3rd, .667, 2 outs RISP is the most telling, .400. He's dominating in AAA, because he is always dominating with nobody on. If he could be twice the pitcher he is now wouldn't you prefer to wait, instead of having him come up and just stink a little less than Wells, Welly and BT?

"The good Lord was good to me. He gave me a strong body, a good right arm, and a weak mind." -Dizzy Dean

by vince eating tarp on Jun 13, 2007 1:37 PM EDT reply actions