What else can happen now?

by Valatan on May 30, 2007 11:13 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

Ok. So Yadi's hurt now. I guess it is now time for ¡Gary Bennettmania! So let's look at a brief summary of this season:

Josh Kinney's feelgood period ends with him on the DL
Carp (remember when we had one of the top three starters in the majors?) gets shelled in his first start, ends up injured
Cards get swept by the pond scum the first week of the season
Edmonds comes back looking weak
Rolen comes back poping up everything
Pujols has his slowest start ever
The team suffers painful loss after painful loss, sometimes acting like it will come back, often not
Anthony Reyes gets demoted, almost inexplicably is sent down to Memphis
Looper, one of the few bright spots of this season, all of a sudden starts looking shakier (fourteen runs in fifteen and two thirds over his last three starts)
Molina, also one of the team's few bright spots this season, gets hurt

We are getting to the point where the only hope is that this season doesn't end up being the Cubs' magical season where they finally get everything together at the all-star break. This team hasn't dug itself into a bottomless pit yet, but something has to start turning out right pretty soon. There are still a bunch of individual stories to follow, and still a lot of things that can go right for the team, and perhaps an interesting midseason trade to be made, but eh.

The Cardinals options for this season therefore seem to be:

1) Blow up the team: they stink, and even if individual players might have some value, they're never going to be able to play together. Get a bunch of prospects. Call up Ankiel and Ludwick and Bozied, and see what they can do.
2) Slog through this. The basic roster construction is good, it's just a matter of bad luck and injuries combining to disaster: even if this team doesn't recover upon the return of Mulder and Carp, the 2008 version is well assembled to compete.
3) Comb the trade market--see what's out there, and let it dictate what you decide to do--you see a hot MLB-ready prospect out there, you ship out Izzy and Edmonds. If A-Rod or Ichiro become available, you go and get them, try to salvage this season, and build around them for next season.
4) Go all Steinbrenner--trade away guys for whoever you can get. Try to stabilize the team for the rest of the season, and make up for the lost talent with offseason FA signings.
5) Tear down New Busch. Build a replica of Old Busch on the footprint. Make Bennett wear a rubber Matheny mask. Make Duncan answer to "Mr. Walker." Trade a tee and a pitching machine for Reggie Sanders. Force Wellemeyer to grow a Matt Morris-style beard. Set all of the calendars in New Old Busch to read "July 31, 2004." Start conversations about whether or not Bush is going to get re-elected.

Option 3) Probably makes the most sense. There's probably something out there that can be had for Looper or Izzy. Maybe we can get a few pieces to build around. A core of Pujols and Carp is pretty damn good. If Mulder can come back solid (and his comps by age indicate that's possible, at least), that's another piece that can help the team out for 2008. Just try to make deals that improve the team, with an eye on next year.

Ugh, this season.

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Comments

Nice litany...

but I think a guy died in there somewhere as well...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 11:19 AM EDT reply actions

Didn't really want to include that on a list of

baseball stuff. Someone dying is more important than whether or not Rolen pops up an infield fly in April

by Valatan on May 30, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry,

that came out snarkier than I intended.

by Valatan on May 30, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

That's ok...

I've never been offended by snark.

Typically when a guy on the active roster dies, it's mentioned in any recap of the season. But then again, this is your recap...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, when I read "painfull loss".....

n/t

by sdrone on May 30, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions

bad news

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2007/05/molina-out-with-fractured-wrist/

molina out

by truemun12 on May 30, 2007 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah...

It's all about '08 for me now. Though the Central is so bad that the worst Bird team is recent memory is still within striking distance--Yadi out for 6 or more weeks is the final nail in the '07 coffin. Time for the Brass to start looking ahead, way ahead.

by rockin redbird on May 30, 2007 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

Option 5

Means I'm still making out with random hot chicks I meet in Soulard! Awesome!

I'd go with 3 myself; I want them to sign a great (not good) corner OFer this offseason (even if it means overspending) and platooning Juan and Jimmy in center, keeping the seat warm for Colby in '09. Throw in a stop gap SS and a hopefully healthy rotation (Carp, Mulder, Buerhle-esque FA, Wainwright, Thompson-esque #5 starter) and I think that team would be downright sterling.

Or, as we used to say back in the glory days of '04: The cats pajamas.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 11:24 AM EDT reply actions

I'm not sure there are any great FA outfielders

who aren't CFs. I wouldn't mind shifting either jim or whoever to RF but here's who i think would be great from the list:

Adam Dunn (Reds have an option on him. Can you imagine him and Duncan in the same OF)
Jermaine Dye (He had a career 2006 but has come back down to his good not great numbers)
Bobby Abreu (if he learns how to take walks again, I'd love to have a .380 OBP at the top of the order. Could come on a short term 2-year contract)
Mike Cameron (sucked for the first month of this season)
Aaron Rowand (meh)

Outside of those guys you've got Andruw Jones, Ichiro and Torii Hunter. I just don't see a great upgrade for our outfield available -- and I think we tragically have JuanE for another year.

by azruavatar on May 30, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't mind

Juan. He is what he is: Mediocre. He'd be a great 4th outfielder, but he is the most average corner outfielder I've seen in quite some time.

I still wish we would have made an obscene amount of money to Carlos Lee for a three or four year deal -- and I mean enough money per year to lure him away from a longer term deal -- like adding Dunn, the OF would be something to watch defensively, but the offense needed another masher in the worst way.

Abreu and Ichiro are probably the best options (please dont get Dye!); but the Reds are mismanaged enough that they may let Dunn test the waters.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

What is wrong with Jermaine Dye?

Above average defensive outfielder with pop in his bat. He is struggling with his average right now, but he is still sporting a 97 OPS+. On this team, that's put him 2nd.

I mean, be reasonable with what you offer him, but I'd love to see Jermaine Dye wearing the Birds on the Bat.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Of course

It depends on the money, as always. If it's reasonable, thats fine; He's just not the guy I'd want to throw a lot of money at, downside of his career and all.

With what Gary Matthews Jr got in the offseason, Dye has to be unbelievably pissed he wasnt a free agent last winter.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

What's wrong with Dye

He's on the wrong side of 30 (33, will be 34 before the start of '08 season). You're looking at one, maybe two decent years left before he starts declining. Considering that the market is likely to yield a 4-5 year deal, it's not a great bet.

Also, he has some injury history (although he has been relatively healthy the last few seasons).

If you discount his '06 explosion, he's only hit 30+ homers twice (and one of those was waaaay back in 2000). He's a modest upgrade over Encarnacion, at what is sure to be a steep price.

by blove121 on May 30, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

His 'injury problems' are actually 2 injuries

one of which was a freak accident getting out of a taxi cab.

He's driven in 80+ runs 7 out of the last 8 years. He isn't a 'modest' upgrade over Juan. Juan's best year, he hit 24 HRs. In a season where Dye played more than 70 games, he's hit less than 24 HRs once.

Dye is a Gold Glove talent defensively with a very strong arm.

Yes, he is on the wrong side of 30, but if he could be had for a 3 or 4 year deal, I don't think the decline will be so step at 34, 35, 36 and 37 that he won't be worth what he is paid.

Dye has played in 130+ games in 7 of the last 8 years and will likely do so again this year.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

A very good player

Not denying that Dye has had a very good career. Just that his FA contract is likely to be lengthy and expensive, and that in the "out" years he is going to be vastly overpaid due to inevitable decline, a la Jim Edmonds and Scott Rolen. For the money he'll cost, he's not much of an upgrade over the inexpensive Encarnacion.

If I am Jermaine Dye's agent, I look at the Matthews ($10M/yr average value, 5 years--Mathews is in his age 32 season) and Pierre ($9M average annual value, 5 years--Pierre is in his age 29 season) contracts and think that my client is a significantly better player than either of them. Five years is a MINIMUM length, at about $12M/year. I'm not even going to return your phone calls if you start talking about a 3-year deal.

And those numbers will look like a bargain after Andruw Jones and Ichiro sign blockbuster deals.

by blove121 on May 30, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

dye is not going to get a 5 year contract

Matthews was 32 and Pierre was 29 when they signed. Dye will get 3-4 years.

by azruavatar on May 30, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

didnt see

hunter mentioned but i have a bad headache so maybe it was

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't see why

everyone is so high on Adam Dunn. He is a terrible defensive OF and strikes out more than PW. For the amount it would cost to get him, we could probably find someone cheaper who won't hit as many homeruns, but won't strikeout as much and probably will get on base better. Who? Not sure, but I would hate to see Adam Dunn in our outfield.

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

K's

If half of his ks were flyballs and lineouts would that be better?

Outs are outs are outs are outs... career 128+ OPSs are career 128+ OPSs.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

I guess at least fly balls and groundouts can move runners over and have the potential to be booted. He may get to first on a dropped 3rd strike once in the next 4 years. OPS+ stat is alot more impressive than I realized, but he still has a career season high BA of .266, and like I said, he's a defensive liability.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, Redbird....

How can i be mad at you w/ that sig?

Seriously though, striking out is often as productive as moving a runner over, as it wont lead to a dp.

Plus the guy has a .379 OBP. It does not get much better than that. Defensively, he sucks. An outfield w/ him in left and Dunc in right would be an absolute circus. But, man oh man, can he hit.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

The DP is always a concern

Especially considering Dunn's blazing speed, he probably won't beat too many out. He also hits the ball too hard to be one of those soft choppers that the IF would have to charge to get to. I know before he went down, I was hoping PW would strikeout if he came up with a runner on 1st and <2 outs. Same can be said for Kennedy most nights.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

To be fair as much crap as I give DD

for wanting groundball outs, Dunn would probably have a slightly higher average if he put more balls in play just because of the nature of batted balls. Still, what Fritz said is true. Dunn is a three true outcomes kind of player and the homeruns and walks make him an offensive asset. He is a massive liability in the field though and I don't think we could manage to have Dunn and Duncan in the same outfield so he's probably not an option.

by azruavatar on May 30, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Also

.38 career OBP percentage guys are not to be found.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

injuries

Maybe we'll be like the Braves from a couple of years ago. They had half the team injured and basically called up the entire farm system. And the kids were hot for awhile.

Now, we may not have the same raw talent (I don't know that much about it), but I think it would at least make for more interesting ballgames. So, do a version of #1...put the old guys on the DL for a time and call up the kids.

Other than that, I like #5. ;o)

by cardsgirlinAR on May 30, 2007 11:25 AM EDT reply actions

I agree

Get what you can for the Looper and Izzy. Franklin might have some trade value too, being he is a FA at the end of the year and has been solid out of the pen. I think Edmonds is unmovable. If you can move Rolen, do it. You will have to pick up salary, but if you can get a few pieces that might contribute to the future, do it.

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on May 30, 2007 11:26 AM EDT reply actions

A combination of 1 and 3

This team as constructed has some serious flaws that even a couple of intelligent changes aren't going to completely mask. I think you ship out Edmonds, Izzy and/or Rolen if you find teams willing to give you back some considerable talent, but the Cards should also take a hard look at a few of their more major league ready prospects. Sitting around and waiting for everyone to come off the DL and stop slumping is going to lead to a losing season, so you might as well take the chance and do something different.

The Falcoholic
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog

by Dave Choate on May 30, 2007 11:30 AM EDT reply actions

Marrero

I didn't realize Marrero was released. Did he get picked up by anybody?

by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on May 30, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

Was our World Series win so cosmically

wrong that all of this crap has to be happening? I mean, 1 or 2, you say 'That's baseball' but this is getting to be epically sad.

Mulder - shoulder injury
Carpenter - elbow injury
Kinney - arm injury
Eckstein - back injury
Duncan - knee injury
Hancock - dead
Juan - wrist injury taking longer
Yadi - fractured wrist
Wilson - career threatening knee injury
Wainwright - arm tendinitis

I mean, that list of injuries right there has to have cost this team, what, 7 games in the win column and counting?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:22 PM EDT reply actions

Sigh...

I think option 5 is the only legitimate solution at this time.... and we need to do something, ANYTHING, to keep Boston from winning Game 4 of the ALCS... That should re-align the Baseball stars to where they should be, thus allowing the Cardinal ship to be righted...

(we obviously screwed up the Baseball Cosmos by getting swept in the 04 series by Boston...)

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

by RosevilleRedbird on May 30, 2007 12:28 PM EDT reply actions

I'd say

We'd probably have been playing in our 3rd consecutive World Series last year had Hee-Sop Choi not destroyed Scott Rolen.

Nunez made several defensive gaffes in the 2005 NLCS. I'll never forget the ball he threw to the backstop that ended up costing us the winning run at Minute Maid.

Before Rolen ran into Hee Sop, he was sporting an .824 OPS with 5 HRs and 20 RBIs. For all intents and purposes, it was the beginning of another 2004 season for him. We all know he is still dealing with the effects of that injury as well.

Having a healthy Rolen in the 2005 lineup would have most certainly gotten that team past the Astros. I'd have liked my chances in the Series with a rotation of Carpenter, Mulder, Suppan and Morris.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions

sigh

It's sad that "the good old days" were less than 2 years ago.

(Although there was that drug induced hallucination I had last October where Jeff Weaver was one of our best pitchers and we won the World Series. That was fun.)

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually,

I prefer recent "good old days" to those that are such a distant memory no one is left alive to recall them. Imagine being a Blueboys fan right about now. They spent 300 million to park themselves 1.5 games above the worst Cardinals team in 25 years. Now THAT has got to suck.

by rockin redbird on May 30, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Wasn't that Luna?

Nunez got spiked by some 'Stro and Hector came in to replace him and the ball was hit to him on the very next play and he threw it like Yadi was 7'11" or something and it flew all the way to the backstop. Or are we thinking of different instances? I remember thinking then, "What else could go wrong? We've got replacements for our replacements." I feel that way right now.

by cardsgirl95 on May 30, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

You're right

I remember now. Man, that was a brutal series.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

For the record...

the throw was made by Luna, not Nunez.

Dave

by Sydney dave on May 30, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

How can we not try to make some deals?

Trading Looper, Izzy, and Franklin this summer would allow the team to sell high. Around the deadline, some team might even decide that an Enc, Eckstein, or Wells (if he puts a few decent starts together -- I'm not holding my breath, either) is the last piece they need for its late-season push. I think one has to be seriously deluded -- with the team 4-4 during the first phase of the "easy" part of the schedule, and the injuries continuing to mount -- to believe that there is much this team can do. They need to start thinking about what they can get to build around what should be a solid for the next few years -- Albert, Carpenter, Mulder, Duncan, and (hopefully) a resurgent Rolen.

As LB pointed out a few weeks ago, the team made a mistake in the 2005-06 offseason by not selling high with Mulder, Marquis, etc. I hope they don't make that same mistake again.

by tdawg on May 30, 2007 12:28 PM EDT reply actions

I meant a "solid core"

Although I have heard "solid" used as a noun ("you did me a solid"), that's not what I was meaning to do.

by tdawg on May 30, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Fire Larussa,

hire Joe Girardi as new manager, and make him player/manager till Yadi gets back. Seriously though, this season has been (for lack of a better term) boring. There is no fire. It's like they all are going through the motions. It's sad.

Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on May 30, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply actions

How about Oquendo

for backup catcher? He can't be worse than the options we have at AAA.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions

What?

Guys hitting .174 in AAA don't impress you?

by sgfcards on May 30, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

What does

.174 translate into at the major league level, anyway?

by sgfcards on May 30, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Nepotism

would be my only guess.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Can he

Juggle and/or name the capitals to all 50 states?

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 30, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Cody McKay

Where is Cody McKay when you need him??? Find out what bar he's tending at and get the guy under contract. With the knuckler he throws, Cody doubles as the mopup reliever. Isn't Bo Hart an emergency catcher? It's heatening to know we have options.

by jjray on May 30, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Remember when we thought this team had hit

rock bottom and things couldn't possibly get any worse?

Well, apparently they've begun drilling and are attempting to hit liquid hot magma at Earth's core. When we get to China, maybe things will turn around.

It is the year of the Pig. Maybe we need to sacrafice a live one.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions

mmmm

bacon....

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

by RosevilleRedbird on May 30, 2007 12:50 PM EDT reply actions

Wow...

I think blowing up the team is an extremely bad idea for several reasons. First, we've sustained lots of injuries in the past that most people believed we couldn't overcome but we managed against the odds--we even won the world series with such a "doomed" team.

Second, if we blew up the team now for 'future investments', we'd be selling low and buying high. Furthermore, we'd be acting out of panic and business partners on the other side would know it--never a good bargaining position.

Third, why trade Edmonds or Rolen when Edmonds just hit three home runs in four games and is obviously beginning to recover his strength and Rolen hit 3 out of 4 times last night. (Plus they are worth gold defensively). Trade them for low dollars when they are just starting to contribute? If we trade Looper and Izzy, we take two of the known certainties stabilizing the team and get uncertain talent for them.

I'm looking to the past resilience of the team and still believe that things can come together with the current team. Wainwright seems back to his normal self--his last performance was great. Wells threw a good game and demonstrated that he could control his problems with getting rattled with people on base. If he had been pulled after the sixth when he showed signs of tiring, he would have had his fourth or fifth quality game (I believe he had two or three at the beginning of the season.) Thompson has held steady. Looper was off last night but was obviously preoccupied about Yadi's condition since he's the one who called him and the trainers to the mound. I have faith he will be a stable starter in the future. And just a few days ago, before we faced an onslought of left-handers, everyone was voicing optimism about the offense.

Many will think I'm overly optimistic. But I think people are throwing out desperate ideas in a panic. When emotions change so swiftly from cautious optimism to certain fatalism, I think we should all pause and take a deep breath before making radical decisions.

One last thing. I've been surprised by the dramatic change in tone on this blog ever since Reyes was sent to Memphis. With all due respect, I wonder if lingering anger over that decision isn't influencing, at to some degree, the angry and fatalistic comments I've heard since then. Honestly, this sounds no different than CardTalk right now.

by nycardfan on May 30, 2007 1:01 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

but I don't think that trading Looper would be getting rid of a certainty. We have no idea if he can hold out for more than a season, and if that, even the rest of this one. He's already showing signs of struggling.

If a contender is offering big (like the Yankees) for Looper, we should definitely take it.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 30, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Speaking of the Yankees

They get so much pub night-in and night-out that I'm getting sick of it. They are only a 1/2 game ahead of us in the win column, but they lead off Baseball Tonight like every night, with "they are underachieving, Torre should be fired, they'll turn it around." Whereas when the Cards are mentioned, it's "they're done." I'd say we have a better chance catching the NL Central than the Yankees have catching the Wild Card (just based on where each will finish W/L wise). I just don't see why last year's World Series champs should get shat on each night by the media when a team that is struggling just as hard as them gets so much publicity and is given a shot.

</rant>

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

You might be right about Looper

but I don't see how we could trade Looper until after we have Carp and Moulder back and know that both are healthy. We simply don't have anyone to fill the spot. The coaching team doesn't think anyone else in the minors is ready. And after what happened to Ankiel in pushing him too fast, i don't want to risk one of our promising future pitchers just to make a trade for Looper.

by nycardfan on May 30, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Pipe Dreams

This is a very bad team. Get used to it and do what should have been this offseason: get a transfusion of young blood and start chopping off the dead wood. I know that's a mixed metaphor, but it applies.

by MikeG on May 30, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

i say stand pat

no need to sell the farm for pricey vets. i'd hate to lose the future in rasmus, perez and anderson for another charge at winning this crappy division. i'd sooner keep the kids for the long haul and try and go for some sustained success.

Future Redbirds

by erik on May 30, 2007 1:05 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

If this year blows, so be it. But let's hold on to our future.

by cardsgirl95 on May 30, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Standing pat

Standing pat isn't trading the farm for pricy veterans; it's trading pricy veterans for young talent if you can do it. Standing pat is worthless.

by MikeG on May 30, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Test

The market for Jimmy Izzy and Scotty. We need not pick the team apart, but bringing some new faces in wouldn't hurt

Come on You Redbirds--Mike Shannon

by BluesDrummer85 on May 30, 2007 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

Do these past series (WAS and COL)

further add to the "Cardinals are playing teams when they're hot" theory? Washington is tearing it up right now, and Colorado is on a hot streak the likes of which haven't been seen that high above sea level in quite some time. Not saying we are better than our record or that we should have lost a series to the Nationals or the first two games of a series to the Rockies, but think about it.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

Pirates

Too bad we can't play Pittsburgh more!

by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on May 30, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Buzz was on Baseball Beat

Talked about Tony and what he has gone through this year. According to him, from the general tone and attitude he has gotten from Tony:

TLR is fed up with DeWitt for assembling this team. Allowing Kip Wells to be the biggest offseason acquisition was disgraceful. TLR, in general, is tired of having to work miracles with guys on their last legs.
TLR is leaving St. Louis after the season. He feels that he's just retreading the same material to the team and that is saying something as TLR isn't a 'Rah rah' speech guy.

3)Larussa is extremely competitive and not being able to put out a competitive lineup/team on the field each night is wearing him down. More so than losing close games, getting his teeth kicked in everynight has Tony ragged.

All of this was Buzz's impressions, not anything Tony came right out and said.

Interesting stuff.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions

Tony in pinstripes

I could see him taking Torre's place this offseason. Looks on paper to be a perfect fit. One more run with an "open checkbook" owner might be of interest to him. Wouldn't be the first Cardinals manager to make the leap (Miller Huggins and Torre - maybe others?).

He's had an amazing run in St. Louis and I'll be forever appreciative. The guy knows how to win. But at some point everyone needs a change.....

by wildman on May 30, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't forget Johnny Keane

after winning the '64 Series over the Yankees, sticking it to Gussie.

It didn't turn out well for him, but it turned out okay for the Cards:

Red Schoendienst
NL Champions in 1967 and 68
WS Champions in 67

by player2bnamedl8r on May 30, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

2 kinds of fair

There are only 2 kinds of fair. The county fair & the state fair! Injuries have 'hurt' the Cards. No pun intented. We need to get healthy. In 2004 we couldn't do anything wrong, until the series. Last year we couldn't do much right until the playoffs. This year we need patience to get the patients off the DL.

CliffNotes

by CliffNotes on May 30, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions

as i have mentioned

this is similar to 2002, except they made late runs that yr..and TLR got gipped of the manager of the yr...to have so many different starting pitchers and a guy die and have them compete..it was def a heart yr even though they fell short.

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Hell, the only reason to watch now is

The "Rick Ankiel Special".

At this point, I'm waiting to read "Contract of OF Rick Ankiel purchased from AAA Memphis" on the transaction wire. Until then, I'm done watching.

by craig3410 on May 30, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions

While I think he needs more time to develop

I read the Molina story on STLCardinals with a secret hope that it said:

"...and in other moves, the Cardinals have placed Chris Duncan on the 15 day DL retroactive to May 27th and have purchased the contract of OF Rick Ankiel. Ankiel is expected to join the club tonight and start in LF."

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Giants

I posted this a week or so about the Giants...What happended there is similar to the Cards IMO. Old aging guys, some high priced deals and lots of injuries early. They have had a youth movement, but the difference is some of those guys have made em compete...

I saw that lincecum guy pitch and I'm telling you afterseeing him live and against the powerhouse mets, I think He's for real(limited sample i know)From what I can see he can handle pressure...They have so many rooks playing even if they are 28 yr old rooks.

Cards should do that as well, they have so many injuries see what they got maybe they will find a gem or two in the system.

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

meanwhile at miller park

the Brewers pen such exploded...Turnbow with one out walks 2 and gives up a infield single to Edgar..they bring in a lefty and he gives up a double..now its just a route...7-2

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 3:26 PM EDT reply actions

I wonder if it's possible

for a sub-.500 team to win the Central

Acquire some runs!

by madding on May 30, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions

right now

using modified pyth calculations (current record plus projection of future performance based on expected record so far) milwuakee is going to win 85 games. Chicago will be second with 83. However, it is entirely possible that both of those teams will tank (IE if marquis and lilly come back to earth and z doesn't get better, and if hardy and fielder fall off of their 50 HR pace).

Of course, using that same method, we're going to win 59 and lose 103, so it isn't going to matter much to us unless we improve SOMETHING and soon.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on May 30, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Yay! With our ace on the mound

tonight...err, wait.

If Pittsburgh wins tonight, they will be 4.5 games out of first place, a position they held on May 3rd of this year.

The last time St. Louis was 4.5 games out? April 29th. Over a month ago.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's the perfect OF

the Cards need. Talk about going all out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl1UgY-jr3U

And yes, it's SFW.

by cardsrul on May 30, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions

Here's another one to worry about...

Kevin (Kirksville): What happened to chris duncan, and why can't i find any info on it?

Will Carroll: He's out with a knee problem. There's info at MLB.com from FOBP Matthew Leach, but there's also an angle I hint at in today's UTK. I can't say more right now, but hope to have something soon.

I don't have a BP subscription so I haven't read the UTK, but it doesn't sound good...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions

He had a bursa sac

rupture when diving on Saturday night from all I've heard. Anything other than that would be new to me.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions

nothing to read

All he says is:

"Watch the injury to Chris Duncan. There may be more here than reported currently, and I'm working on something, hopefully for tomorrow..."

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on May 30, 2007 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions

From the Cards main site

"He made that big dive and he landed on his kneecap and aggravated that bursa sac," said manager Tony La Russa. "It got all swollen. He got checked, and he's at the hotel with treatment and antibiotics. We'll see how long it takes to respond."

Unless his leg is going to have to be removed, I'm not sure what else it could be.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

do you think a one-legged Duncan

would struggle in the outfield?

by azruavatar on May 30, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

nah

hed be better than Enc

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

it might be good

Give him a week off, and give some starts to the Famous Warrior so he can prove conclusively that he is better than Juan Encarnacion...

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on May 30, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I ruptured my bursa sac

once years ago,when I fell while walking my black lab. My knee grew to twice its normal size in just a few minutes, and the swelling didn't go down for over a week. Of course, I didn't have unlimited medical care at my beck and call...

by cardsrul on May 30, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Did you stick an enormous...

hollow needle in the joint to drain the fluid, get a cortisone shot to reduce the swelling, get an anasthetic injection, take some uppers, wash it down with some Wild Turkey... If you had done those things you'd have been able to play D like Chris Duncan that same day...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions

An outfield of amputees

would be a lot more fun to watch than the current team and would likely yield similar results.

by Handsome B Wonderful on May 30, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions

He'd be as helpless in the field...

as Schumaker is at the bat...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions

oh man....

How many stolen bases will opposing teams run up on the Cards over the next 4-6 weeks?...could be ugly...

by Timbo02 on May 30, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

Yikes!!!!

Trading Izzy is a good idea. We might be able to get a decent starting pitcher and another good catcher for him which would be a lot of help. Besides, Wainwright is better as a closer anyway.
Edmonds probably won't get traded. I've heard that he plans on retiring after his contract is up, and he and the front offices would like him to retire as a Cardinal.
I kinda like the bomb everything and start over idea. We could trade Juan E, Looper, Kip Wells, Preston Wilson, and a few of our relievers for some new starting pitching and some prospects. We just have to wait until Mulder comes back until we can trade Looper or Wells.
We have some good prospects that could be doing well in the majors, such as Ludwick, Ankiel, and Cate. I say we bring them all up and put Cate in the starting rotation.

by 2x41z2tu on May 30, 2007 5:08 PM EDT reply actions

"we're talkin' softball"...

at this rate i'm half expecting a series of wacky and unlikely accidents/circumstances to take out the rest of the team like in the softball episode of the simpsons.
at least it would be fun to try to guess what happens next.
eckstein arrested for murder?
edmonds joins bizarre cult?
rolen turned into frog by an ancient magical curse?

by mattybobo on May 30, 2007 5:16 PM EDT reply actions

Esposito / Anderson

Esposito's numbers are horrible. We might as well bring up Anderson. Maybe we'll hit some gold like the Nats did with Ryan Zimmerman.

I mean, honestly, at this point could it hurt? Worst result is that he struggles and we send him right back down. But geez, Esposito's numbers are awful.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 30, 2007 5:16 PM EDT reply actions

yeah but...

if you bring him up and send him down, you've added him to the 40-man and used up an option year... Realistically, as a 20-year-old, he's going to need years in the minors to become a polished major league catcher.

Even if he dazzles, he's still going to be the backup when Yadi returns, sitting on the bench, instead of logging time behind the plate and improving...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I think we should leave Anderson be

This season is lost anyway, might as well not make it worse by stunting the development of one of our best prospects by bringing him up before he is ready. If we want to bring up some of the Memphis guys that are marginal anyway to see if they will ever be useful that's one thing, I'm all for that.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on May 30, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

Maybe Esposito will be incredible and shock the league and then we can unload him for somebody big at the trading deadline.

I can dream, right?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 30, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd wait if only for the purpose of delaying

his service time clock

by azruavatar on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Bright Spot

Rasmus collected 7 rbi (tied for record) last night and hit a homerun in Springfield. He has been more than exciting to watch and all the media down here is speaking of him having an idling car pointing towards Memphis. Someones gotta move from Memphis but it may be Rasmus time before too long. Looking towards next year, you get Carp and Mulder, maybe sign a Buerhle type, hang on to Reyes and Wainwright, you still got Duncan and Pujols and Molina, Kinney comes back, I have already decided I don't care about this year. Watch and enjoy what you can but I think the future also looks bright for next year.

by ajo080s on May 30, 2007 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

Rasmus up to Memphis

I would think would hopefully push Ankiel to St. Louis. We don't need Skippy (see: So Taguchi) but we do need someone who can hopefully yak 6 or 7 a month.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Ankiel

If we bring him up now we should be prepared to give him plenty of AB's and let him take his lumps if necessary, since we can't send him back down and he still needs a lot of AB's to develop plate discipline.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on May 30, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm prepared for it.

He can start everyday in RF and platoon with Edmonds in CF on days off for the rest of the season for all I care.

Juan, if he wasn't last year, isn't 'giving his all' this year. Tony has come out and said as much a few times in his short span back with the club. He's misplayed balls in the OF, not hustled after balls hit in his direction and has made a number of baserunning mistakes.

If I see him swing at another 2-0 pitch and pop it up to the on-deck circle, I'm calling a witchdoctor and having his arms reversed.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly...

The concern with Ankiel is that he gets up here, struggles mightily, loses confidence, then enters a no man's land where he can't play and he can't be optioned...

by guayzimi on May 30, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions

it's 2007

and we're still waiting for Rick Ankiel to save us.

I'm rooting for the guy as hard as anyone, but that's not a good sign.

by tdawg on May 30, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

He's going to turn 28 in July

isn't it time to see if he has actually turned this thing around?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Excellent point....

He's been in the show before...we need a outfielder and a bat right now...lets find out what the guy is made of....

by Timbo02 on May 30, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Some guys

just can't make it in the bigs, for whatever reason(s) and I think Ankiel is one of them. It's time to cut bait and run.

by cardsrul on May 30, 2007 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

What the heck

shouldn't you atleast give him a look before you cut bait?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Pujols leading NL 1B All- Star vote

1st Base

Pujols, A. Cardinals 399,706
Fielder, P. Brewers 291,911
Lee, D. Cubs 224,165

Fielder and Lee have played to deserve the start at 1B, however it APu gets his act together, gets his average up to .320 or so and can get to 20 or so HRs by the All-Star Break, I don't see either of them passing him.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 5:55 PM EDT reply actions

A running argument...

This reminds me of a constant disagreement I have with a buddy of mine about the All Star game...HE believes that, for example, Albert should be the starting 1st baseman no matter if he's having a a bad year or not...he's earned it by his carreer stats so far...and that is what the the fans want to see...I happen to think that the All Star game is about who is deserving of the start for THIS year...who's playing the best so far in the season...it makes for a better game overall I think if you get players who are hot and perhaps young and enthusiastic about the game ..instead of kind of going throught the motions if there on rep alone..
Thoughts?

by Timbo02 on May 30, 2007 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Now that "IT COUNTS!"...

All bets are off. No more career achievement awards if fans care at all about getting the best shot at home field in the WS.

youneverknow

by meat on May 30, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope

Fans don't care about getting home field for the WS, they still vote the same way they always have.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on May 30, 2007 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions

irony(SP) on board

people on here get amd and want the orginization to give youngesters a shot. Right now is the opportune time for that IMO. However after what maybe a month of ludwick people are willing to ship him down already...It's different that the Skip thing we have seen him b4 this yr.

I say with all the injuries bring up those who may be ready and roll with it. Like i said b4 the giants are having some luck with it...the Twins have done well in the past with it...

I guess its hard to compare farm systems though and talent, but you have to give them a chance first.

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 5:59 PM EDT reply actions

We don't have a pitcher near as good as Lincecum

the kid never lost in the minor leagues. He dominated at every level what little time he spent there.

I do agree with bring up some youth, or marginal youth to see what they have. Bring up Ankiel for the time being, with Rasmus fast tracked to Memphis.

The problem is that the holes are at 1 outfield spot (when Duncan is healthy) and the middle infield. Our CF and 3B are getting better by the day, potentially with an 80% return to form or so.

Do we have any MIF prospects worth giving the cup of coffee to?

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on May 30, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

ya

i have no clue on those...the giants have that Lewis guy that is playing alot and he isn't all that great, but they are giving hima shot.

My thing is roll the dice, at least while incumbents are hurt...no way I go with SO more.

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on May 30, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

has the other shoe finally dropped?

only thing worse that's left to happen to the Cards is if Albert gets hurt. and the way this season is going, I half expect it to happen any day now. seriously, this is just some sick twisted joke right? how come we are being punished for FINALLY winning a WS after 24 years? we all know it's hard to repete, but this is just unreal. the baseball gods mush have us Cards confused with the red sox. that's the team that broke the curse of the babe. what'd the Cards break? the curse of hernandez? come on! this is all wrong. it's not right. it's flat not right.

I keep having to remind myself that it's just a game. that it does not really matter. that real life is more important. but when I get back to my real life, it's worse. and I want to go back to that excape the Cards have given me for so long. and it's not there. it's just not there. when I need that excape from reality most, it's no longer there.

is it really only a game? to those like me who need a break from their every day struggles, it's not.

The 2007 St.Louis Cardinals. Not Your Father's 04-05 Cardinals. And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on May 30, 2007 6:45 PM EDT reply actions

you know....

I really hope none of the items in the "fixit" column occur...dont agree with any of it, especially any talk thats theres even a REMOTE chance Alex Rod will land in St Louis...its not gonna happen. Besides it doesnt address the top of the organization and the issues there, but you did a great job listing the disasters the club is expected to ignore and go ahead and win for all of US, so we'll be happy!!;)!

Yes...They WILL slog it out to some extent, thats been the Cards way. There will be one or two trades, maybe Izzy for a bat or starter, but any and all trades will depend on where the teams sits in August and what the Division looks like. There will be another call-up or two and the injuries COULD get even worse, in a hurry.

Bennett will do a fine job, we're lucky to have'im! Anyway, Yadier will be back in no time! The bats are heating up...mental slumps can turn around, but injuries are damn hard to get past unless youre deep. We're not!

Option 5 was probably the most "realistic" :0! but I dont want any semblance of Matheny back in red, endured enough of his at-bats to last a life time those last two years when his defense was barely above average and his at-bats were just plain painful for the most part.

Pitching, base running and defense!

by cardschinmusic on May 31, 2007 7:14 AM EDT reply actions