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outmakers in the outfield

it has been amusing to watch the numbers in the sidebar poll change over the last few days. i posted the poll a week ago, ie last friday; as of game time on sunday night, a solid 72 percent of the respondents had selected "close call, but they win the division again." i don't know if that particular candidate has garnered a single vote since sunday; its constituents have suddenly discovered the charm of "sorry, 83 wins doesn't cut it," and fringe-party nominees like "sub .500" are getting a second look. even the quixotic "franchise moves to buffalo" (the pat paulsen in this field) has been holding its own against "close call" since the season began. the protest candidacy of "0-162" hasn't caught fire yet, despite some promising endorsements . . . . .

i highly recommend houstoncardinal's diary about the looper start. HC is one of the volunteers charting games for the pitch-by-pitch data project, and braden looper is his designated starter; the diary breaks down the pitch selection and speeds in the fateful 6th inning wednesday night, adding some detail and hard data to the general impression we all got --- viz looper, unused to throwing 80 pitches a night, ran out of gas.

while i'm on the subject --- some sabermetric superheavyweights (tangotiger, mgl, nate silver, phil birnbaum) got into a discussion about close observation of pitchers yesterday. they were talking specifically about dice k, whose start i missed (although i did see about 8 of his pitches over and over and over and over and over again last night on espn with the sound turned down). perhaps our accumulation of pitch charts, over the course of the year, will add some useful fodder to that conversation.

apropos of nothing: my cousin mark wrote something pretty interesting at his blog, Bookfraud. it's not a very good blog; he typically writes about incredibly boring stuff like fiction, art, music --- you know, culture. hardly ever says a word about baseball, so why bother reading? but last night he put up a hilarious, seething rant about the sale of the cubs (pssst --- poor guy's a cub fan). in truth it's a rant about the current state of fandom and profiteering thereon. it's an entertaining read --- when he chooses to write about something worthwhile, the guy can turn a nice phrase.

if you head over there, go easy on him in the comments --- dude and his wife are expecting their first kid any hour now.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

given the current state of the cardinals' outfield corps, i thought it'd be interesting to look back 20 or 30 years and find the franchise's weakest-hitting outfield units. you have to go back that far to find a truly subpar group; even last year's outfield, tepid though it was, got most of its at-bats from average-or-better hitters like duncan, edmonds, spiezio, j-rod, and preston wilson. prior to that, going back all the way to the beginning of the 1990s, st louis outfields were stacked with players like edmonds, lankford, sanders, walker, drew, gant, and jordan. even nondescript regulars like mark whiten, bernard gilkey, and felix jose had batting lines that would do credit to our current lineup.

the last truly awful collection of cardinal flycatchers belonged to the 1986 roster. here it is, in its full glory:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB | AVG OBP SLG OPS+
coleman 600 94 139 13  8  0 29 60 | .232 .301 .280 63
mcgee 497 65 127 22  7  7 48 37 | .256 .306 .370 87
van slyke 418 48 113 23  7 13 61 47 | .270 .343 .452 119
ford 214 30  53 15  2  2 29 23 | .248 .318 .364 89
landrum 205 24  43  7  1  2 17 20 | .210 .279 .283 57
morris 100  8  24  0  1  1 14  7 | .240 .287 .290 61

van slyke's line doesn't count for full value, because by random chance his most productive at-bats in '86 came as a first baseman --- he hit nearly .400 at that position in 92 plate appearances. in 326 at-bats as an outfielder, slick batted .234 and slugged only .401. most of these same players were major offensive contributors to pennant-winning teams the years immediately before and after 1986, but some collective funk afflicted them for a few months. it'd be nice to blame it all on jack clark's injury, but he didn't get hurt until almost the all-star break (june 24) --- and most of the cardinal outfielders were at their worst early, while clark was still in the lineup. van slyke reached the all-star break hitting .237 with 4 homers and a .673 OPS; mcgee (who as i recall was hobbled by a bad hamstring that year) got to the break at .237 / .289 / .316; landrum was at .171 / .244 / .248. the cardinals, who led the league in scoring in 1985 and were 2d in 1987, finished dead last in runs scored in 1986.

that was a terrible year for the st louis outfield. but the worst of the last half-century, by far, was 1978. behold:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB | AVG OBP SLG OPS+
morales 457 44 109 19  8  4 46 33 | .239 .288 .341 77
mumphrey 367 41  96 13  4  2 37 30 | .262 .317 .335 84
hendrick 382 55 110 27  1 17 67 28 | .288 .337 .497 132
brock 298 31  66  9  0  0 12 17 | .221 .263 .252 46
scott 219 28  50  5  2  1 14 14 | .228 .278 .283 59

hendrick didn't join the cardinals until just before memorial day. at the time he arrived, the st louis outfield as a group had produced 4 home runs.

both the '86 and '78 teams suffered abysmally slow starts; each had a 7-game losing streak in mid-april and followed it up with a disastrous california road trip, and both found themselves more than 10 games under by the time summer started --- cautionary tales. yes it's early, but not too early to start spotting patterns. i'd like to see 'em score a few runs.

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Yikes
That '78 line for the daisypickers almost made me throw up this early in the morning.  An OPS+ of 46, Lou?

I think if they gave me nearly 300 ABs, I could get 70 hits just by accident.

I sure would be nice to see tonight Eckstein single, Duncan walk and Pujols deposit one in the Crawford Box just to get this team rolling.

We are currently the worst team in baseball, but one good game changes all of that.

I'll be in Cincy tonight, at GAB watching the Pirates take on the Reds in 25 degree weather, with a chance of snow flurries and freezing rain.  Fantastic!

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 6, 2007 9:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll be at GAB too
I will be freezing right along with you!

by JBagKY on Apr 6, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gah!!
Man, I had almost forgotten that putrid '78 OF. Those were dark days to be a Bird fan, but we all lived through it. If this team ends up a clone of some of the 70's Bird teams, it'll be really tough on the younger folks who've known mostly winning. Hopefully that won't be the case, but if so, gotta take the lumps with the gravy. At least we have still warm World Series memories to get us through what may be a long cold season. '67 seemed a lot more than a decade (+1) away in '78.

by rockin redbird on Apr 6, 2007 10:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey I'm 27 years old
and I became a huge fan after the '87 series.  It was a dark dark period of Cardinal baseball from '88 to '95.  Mediocre teams, no front office support...not fun teams to watch.  

by silent_bob on Apr 6, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

me, too
When you learn to read standings by calculating "how far behind the Pirates are we now?" and (until last year) only see the team live in years they miss the playoffs, you learn how to deal with being a fan of a not-so-great team.

Not that I'm ready to put that label on this team just yet.  There's still plenty of time for front office moves, for bats to get hot, for calling up inexplicably banished outfielders from Memphis, etc.

by nybirdgirl on Apr 6, 2007 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glad you guys/gals
made the ride through the late 80's/early 90's. I was mostly talking about those that found their way to the Birds post-95. I know a lot of those youngsters and they're already having a really hard time with this season, though it's still just a baby. Hell, I'm already having a hard time with this season, though it's still just a baby, and I've got 40 years in. My point wasn't to harp on anybody, but to note that there is certainly a segment of our fanbase that hasn't known anything but success on one level or another, and they may have to learn to toughen up a bit if things do go in the toilet this season. However, like nybirdgirl I do think it's far too soon to be calling this season a failure. There is a whole of baseball to come before that becomes evident. GO BIRDS!! Let's see Wainwright stomp Wandy into the dirt tonight.

by rockin redbird on Apr 6, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

duh
should read "a whole lot of baseball..."

by rockin redbird on Apr 6, 2007 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a way...
I kind of long for those mid-90's teams... People didn't take the game so seriously, you could walk up to the ticket window and buy a bleacher ticket five minutes before the game started... I'm sure it's nothing more than looking back on my young teen years w/ a hopeless romantacism, but times weren't that bad.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 6, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but there was the despair
factor ... i.e., we didn't know that A-B was ever going to sell the team, but we did know that Gussie's son was indifferent to baseball and that he was insisting the team be run in a penurious way.  In 1995 I was damn close to despair, I'll tell you.  (Not that the 1970s, when I first got heavily into baseball, was a walk in the park either.)

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 6, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yay
saw on here someone mention AL Reyes was in camp with tampa. i thought his career would be over with arm troubles at 36, 2 years ago.

he picked up a save in the win against the yankees! that guy was money, he filled the void of Kiko Calero for me, maybe not in name but in nasty sliderness.

good to see him make a comeback, even more remarkable, Reyes doesn't seem to have aged, he is still 36. if only he could teach Jimmy that trick.

by Rentboy on Apr 6, 2007 10:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He may be their solution at closer
Man I'd love to have him in our bullpen again.  Look up "rubber arm" in the baseball dictionary and you'd find his picture.

by silent_bob on Apr 6, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coulda had him
with any kind of offer/overture from our organization after last year.

He was a free agent who eventually re-signed with TB after almost an entire year spent rehabbing in '06.

Why we didn't pursue him---while going after guys like Russ Springer---I can't fathom.

Since being traded to the Dodgers in 2000 he's allowed 93 hits in 140 innings. He must be doing something right.

by salvomania on Apr 6, 2007 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know
He might have felt some indebtedness to Tampa for sticking with him through his rehab last year, similar to Carp re-signing with out guys after 2003.

by Speedy G on Apr 6, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reed Johnson
MLB trade rumors lists reed johnshon as a trade candidate...think the Cards would bite?  If so, what would it take?

by Toddius396 on Apr 6, 2007 10:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reed
I read the Reed Johnson article and became intrigued just as you were.  I'd love to have him...problem is, I think Walt will stick out the month, hope preston/spezio can kick it into gear, and see how Juan does coming back in May.

Unfortunately, we'll probably ride our OF out until early summer at a minimum unless a major injury comes about.

And then, hopefully we can aquire a larger prize!

by whatapartier on Apr 6, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At this point
I really feel the Cards should play it out a bit with what they have.

If worse comes to worse, the Cards do have some nice trading chips at the deadline this season: Izzy, Wells, and Eckstine. With payroll flexablity, I really see this season at the worst as a good opetunity to use the FA's to be combined with payroll space and some decent  prospects as an opertunity similar to that in 1997 (when we traded for McGwire) or 1998 (when we traded for Tatis and Oliver)to use our lack of contention, talent, and payroll to add a major offensive player who can help address the fact that from 2002 through 2005 the Cards were built around a big 3 (Edmonds, Rolen, Pujols) complimented by a number of other talented offensive players (Drew, Walker, Sander, Renteria) and that we need a third major offensive cog to replace Edmonds.

At the best, this is a team that can give us another go around in the playoffs.  There is talent in the minors, players to trade in the majors, and payroll to allocate. We will see which happens, but either way, I see these as being far from the darkest of times.

by JMedwick on Apr 6, 2007 10:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm with you jmed
with this qualification: stick with what they have, but make better use of the personnel on hand. if that means recalling j-rod / ludwick to add punch to the outfield, or if it means returning looper to the setup role and letting franklin or keisler start in the #5 slot, then do it --- and sooner rather than later. they could piss away a third of the schedule determining that taguchi's no good anymore, that edmonds is no longer a .900 OPS player, etc etc etc. they waited far too long to make those sorts of determinations last year vis-vis marquis and mulder, and it nearly (should have) cost them the division; i don't think they can afford to do the same thing this year.

play it out, gauge carpenter's health and edmonds' health and the young pitchers' effectiveness; if they're in a good spot in the standings at midseason, then look for acquisitions to fill the holes. if they're not making a strong bid, then deal a couple of vets and build up the farm system. i'd add looper and encarnacion to the list of possible trade chips if they do not contend this year.

by lboros on Apr 6, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought
about adding in Looper and Juan as trading chips, but after thinking about it I decided:

A. If Looper proves to be a decent #5 starter this season, I would rather hold on to him for next year (giving us Carp, Reyes, Wainwright, and Looper as a core). Cheap #5 starters who are league average are hard to find and a valuable comodity. Of course, that is all contingent on Looper being a decent starter and if Looper is a decent starter this year, that might be our Kent Bottenfield, meaning Loopers trade value will never be higher.

B. As for Juan, if he isn't healty then his value is as low as it can get and there is no reason to trade him. Besides, an outfield of Duncan and Juan  and the CF of the day isn't so bad if the Cards have a third top flight offensive player to add to Rolen and Pujols.

In a complete fantast, if the O's are really looking to move someone like Tejada, I could see a good offer coming from the Cardinals with the group of players we are throwing around here.

by JMedwick on Apr 6, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure
that Looper, next year, would be a cheap #5 starter.  He's due to make $5 million or so next year.  Compared to Meche, Marquis and others, it's cheap.  But if Looper pitches well enough for teams to be interested at the trade deadline, and Mulder comes back in July healthy, we should consider trading him then and selling high.

As for the OF, I think we need to play So and Wilson some early to see if they're worth salvaging, so that we can replace them earlier rather than later.  Earlier a couple of people mentioned Reed Johnson -- a possibility but he's really not an everyday player.  It seems to me that trading for him early precludes us from trading for a better OF later and I don't think he improves us that much.  I sure do hope that Duncan's in the lineup tonight vs. Wandy, a lefty, though.  Play Wilson in right if you want, but put Dunc out there and see if he can hit Wandy.  If he can't hit Wandy, he can't hit a good lefty either.

by chuckb on Apr 6, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the verdict is in...
Duncan can definitely hit Wandy.  Really, really hard.

Thank you, Tony, for letting him start against the lefty.  Please keep doing that.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 6, 2007 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Al Reyes
the cards organization probably assumed what i did, a 36/37 year old pitcher having reconstructive surgery that would take a full year to rehab/recover from, would be done. he was on pace to turn 39 in 4 days..

now he is turning 37..his birthday apparently moved from what i swear was 1968 to 1970 on the espn player card. on baseball-reference it is listed as 1971.

maybe reyes was too young to sign sometime in the past and had to adjust his age a wee bit.

if the organization would have known he was only 34 or 35 years old when he had the surgery, maybe things would be different.

at this point, i have no idea how old he is anymore. haha.. maybe he is 44.

he was kind of the invisible glue that kept our bullpen together for that year and change he was here, imo. wish him well in tampa..

if he had only gone by Rafael Reyes instead of Al, what could of been..
 

by Rentboy on Apr 6, 2007 11:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not to get off subject, but...
...you do know what a 'rentboy' is, right?

by slonim on Apr 6, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dont google it if youre at work!
I may have to explain myself...
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 6, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it seems to me that
it wouldn't have taken any sort of rocket science or impressive predictive system to have determined the putridness of the '78 outfield.  

otoh, i'm curious about which of our predictive systems would have accurately identified the precipitous drop-off from '85 to '86 with basically the same cast.  

i'm beginning to hear faint drumbeats in the distance.

lb, nice paulsen reference.

by sdesserman on Apr 6, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

paulsen would have made
a fine president of these united states.

i'm hearing the same drumbeats . . . . oh wait, that's just my Ry Cooder disc.

by lboros on Apr 6, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

franken running for senate
recalls paulsen except that he may have a chance to win.  

by sdesserman on Apr 6, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

85-86-87
Seems like a good place to cite this paragraph by Bill James, written during the 1987 preseason, that has stuck with me a long time:

"Some will argue that if the Cardinals can go from 101 wins to 79 in one season, it must be possible for them to get back to 101 in one more season. Perhaps, but if a man is thrown from a horse in a half-second, does it follow that he must be able to get back on the horse as quickly? If you wrap your car around a tree, can you put it back together as quickly as it was torn apart? It is a rule of nature that the processes of destruction, such as fire and violence, act more quickly than the processes of growth and development, and it can be shown that this rule also applies to baseball players and baseball teams."

Fun stuff. He wrote it before the Cardinals did in fact put it all back together in 1987. I just copied that graph, however, out of his collection of writings called This Time Let's Not Eat the Bones, which was published in 1989. I think he could have been gracious enough to note the irony of what he wrote. Roger Angell did that in one of his collections, in which he included a footnote that said the fact that what he predicted turned out to be exactly wrong in no way diminished the brilliance of his analysis, or words to that effect.

I love Bill James. I got onto him when he wrote for Esquire in the late '70s and have a bunch of his Abstracts. Just had to get this off my chest. Thank you for this opportunity!

by Youneverknow on Apr 6, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

moving to Buffalo
See, that's just not a realistic possibility. Everyone knows the team is much more likely to go to Portland.

by DCGreg on Apr 6, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Austin Kearns
Who else wants this guy for RF?

by silent_bob on Apr 6, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bring in Tagg!!!!!
I don't know about everybody else but I am awful high on him at the moment.  I know he has only played 1st but what are the possibilities of putting, wait a minute don't hit the fan on this one, Albert back in left, Dunc in right and playing Tagg at first.  I hate to move a glove like El Hombre's but he can play any where and has proved it.  I am not sure I even like it but really believe Tagg can be an impact bat in the line up.  This just solved our outfield dilema and gave us another big stick.  OK now go ahead and let me have it.

Duck and run cause I know it's comin

by DJ4508 on Apr 6, 2007 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Outside the box thinking...
but it's a pipe dream. Albert just won a gold glove.  He's going nowhere.

by silent_bob on Apr 6, 2007 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Bob
I really thought I'd get hammered on that one fast.  I'm guessing it hasn't been seen much yet.  I understand the resistance in moving a gold glover but I really think that it could be a quick fix to our present situation and work out well for the duration.

by DJ4508 on Apr 6, 2007 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Slonim
a favorite character of mine, Mark Renton, friends' called him rentboy in "Trainspotting." i assumed it wasn't a compliment because he didn't like it. not exactly sure what it is. hope it is not offensive, sorry.

i loved edgar renteria, so one can pretend it means, RENTeria is my BOY!!

ha

by Rentboy on Apr 6, 2007 5:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

1997
since we are talkign opening season slides i thought i'd bring this one up. I'm not one to panick after 3 games but this is a good story. Cards opened on the road and dropped em all..0-8 opening day was against the Expos...

Pre game was at hooters and our friend made the comment " I find our waitress extremly attractive" which she wasn't and we still razz himabout it.

The game was cold wet and rainy and notmuch higlights...Uptilthe bottomof the ninth our higlight was yelling at Mabry in the cards OF and FP santangelo in the Expos OF we had moved to the mid level smokign area even though we didnt smoke to watch the game...

Bottom of the 9th 0-0 I believe and most people leaving it was late and coldand rainy as I said before. So we were able to move down to field level. Willie had not been playing due to a sore hammy, and hit the walk off before it was deemed a walk off HR...still one of my fav games it was our SR yr and last time we were all together for opening day.

Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Apr 6, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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