Morning post: it was just one game; just one game...
Update [2007-4-4 16:21:1 by lboros]: it's 2:15 p.m.; i'd like to propose that we just cede the argument to Danny1986. it's not that we all haven't been edified by that exchange, but you can have too much of a good thing. . . . i for one --- and i'm sure i speak for many --- think it's time to just congratulate danny and the mets on their two wins to open the season, and move on to more interesting subjects of conversation . . . . .[end update]
Well, this is hardly something that you want to start the season out seeing. I know that it's tough starting out the season worrying about the team's makeup and character while suffering through these losses after being so excited regarding the beginning of the season.
There were a few bright spots, however--
- Kip Wells pitched better than the four runs he allowed. If he keeps up a decent performance, then he'll turn out to be a pretty solid pickup.
- Chris Duncan seems to be learning the outfield pretty well. I only started watching partway through the fifth, but in that time, Duncan made two solid plays, including throwing a runner out at home. I didn't see any clear miscues
- Rolen hit a home run. This team is going to need Scottie to stay at the very top of his game this season--backsliding by him would be disastrous to the offense, built as it is upon 'studs and scrubs.' Him hitting that homer is more of an indication that he's truly back and himself.
- Also, maybe it is still just early season optimism, but it never seemed that the team was wholly out of the game last night. When Albert came to bat in the eighth, I was internally pretty confident that he could come up with something. It wasn't the feeling one had during the 2004 world series. That mini-rally in the eighth certainly felt like one that was going to erase that three point differential.
It is frustrating to watch your team come up short against the cream of the NL, however. It is specially hard to see this if one remembers how nailbiting the 2006 NLCS ended up being. But we really do need to remind ourselves that this is just two games. Most of us picked the Cards to be more than three games up by the end of the season Lboros pointing out below that the 2004 and 1985 clubs both started 0-2 should be a little indication to everyone involved that very little is settled in this first series. That's it for now, more fun with my evening/game thread to come...
Update [2007-4-4 8:54:55 by lboros]: not to intrude on your post, val, but i just read the p-d's article about carp's elbow and thought i would share an excerpt or two:
Though the club did not discuss the probability of Carpenter landing on the disabled list for a third time in four seasons, a club source said such a move becomes likely if there is no significant improvement in the next three days.
The Cardinals declined to make medical supervisor Dr. George Paletta available for comment.
"Any time something is going on with your arm, it's one: frustrating, two: a disappointment; and three: I don't know if it's alarming or not," Carpenter said about 90 minutes before Tuesday night's game against the Mets. "I want to make sure it's OK. That said, everyone I've talked to — doctors and trainers — is not alarmed. They don't think it's anything serious. They're trying to make sure that I know that everything will be OK." . . .
Carpenter said he first noticed the problem Tuesday morning when he could not touch his right hand to his right shoulder as he attempted to adjust his shirt while speaking on the phone with his parents.
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Morning, Valatan!
I think this club needs an actual right fielder. The lineup is definitly missing one or more bats right now. Just seems punchless.
I agree about the bats
No Way.
I don't see who we have to sell
Maybe...
Walt buys a small island with the money, like ... Australia, and we all move there.
Cards become cursed for 80 years?
by redbird2006in on Apr 4, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That '85 team,
Larussa's teams always playing slightly better after the break is often brought up to praise him. I wonder how his first halves measure up to the league average.
Natural for baseball imho
The teams out of contention trade their stars and play their AAA players for the rest of the year.
"Playing better" after the all-star break usually depends on what you do at the all-star break. We're usuaaly buyers...
by redbird2006in on Apr 4, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
2004, but...
Emerging Ace
by bgh on Apr 4, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole Carp thing is out of our hands
hmm...
I'm more worried about our offense and the fact that our best available (or only available) pinch hitter late in games is Gary Bennett.
Where's J-Rod when you need him? Well, he was actually on our bench (getting his ring) watching the whole ordeal with wanting eyes.
Yeah
You didn't see Bennet pitch hit
Wells looked awesome
In three years with the Birds Suppan never struck out more than the 7 batters Wells fanned last night.
His pitches had great movement, and he threw his curve ball with confidence in "non-curveball counts," and seemed to keep hitters off balance all night.
The only extra-base hit off him was El Duque's ground double down the line.
If he throws all year the way he did tonight, against a tough lefty-strong lineup, then Wells's signing will be one of Walt's masterstrokes.
Agreed
Isn't it amazing how the mood has changed from our starters to our hitters throughout the offseason? And now that mood might switch to both sides if Carp gets shelfed for some time. Being the optimist that I am, I'm wondering should we at least consider a major letdown season?
by 636thestruggle on Apr 4, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm excited about Wells too
He's a work in progress. But he does have phenomenal "stuff."
Too bad he might end up being our #1 starter for a while.
optimist
of course, i think it should be pointed out that wells was behind on a lot of the batters. this lead to those 4 walks. if kip is going to turn the corner he needs to cut down on the free passes. its been a big problem for him in the past.
Nothing can bring me down
if it hurts
Agree with all comments about Carp's elbow being a minor issue. Agree with all comments about 0-2 not being a big deal. Am concerned with the lack of offense so far, but in Glavine and El Duque, you've got two top-tier SPs who are well rested and prepared. Let's see how April progresses before pushing the panic button.
TSF
How much pain do pitchers put up with?
I had rotator cuff problems
I'm worried
I think it's too early to panic
This mood is nothing that can't be cured by a couple of good games from Wainer and Reyes, however.
Elbowgate: my two cents
Obviously Carp's elbow swelled up quite a bit for him to lose that much range of motion. From what I have read, sounds like Paletta and Weinberg checked it out, did some clinical tests on the ligaments, and Carp had no complaints of pain - so he's in a holding pattern.
With these tests, you basically stress the ligaments by manually bending the elbow the two ways that it does not normally bend, and see if there is any pain or "laxity," or stretching of the ligament (UCL or Tommy John ligament). These tests were negative. No MRI has been performed, and they say that they do not plan on taking one at this time. I hope they end up doing the MRI anyways, and they probably will if Carp has no significant improvement.
My gut tells me he'll end up on the 15 day DL. There has been no talk of a "forearm strain," which does quell my fears a bit - forearm strains are pretty strong indicators that the UCL is damaged.
We'll all know more in a few days.
Memo to Barry/Paletta: Shut 'er down, do an MRI, and figure this thing out. I've defended you on many times regarding your handling of Rolen. Don't mess this one up.
MRI
correction
MRI
Hard to tell what went in to the decision to avoid the MRI, but perhaps this contributes to the discussion as to what is could possibly hurt to have an MRI.
I doubt
what about his nerve irritation in 2005
You mean during 2004 playoffs?
I believe
Again - thats in the shoulder, not the elbow.
Radio frequencies permeate our body
I don't understand how they can justify not doing an MRI even with PNS. I'd rather have him miss a start due to minor MRI after effects than have him go back out on the mound when he's hurt.
This also validates my reaction toward Carpenter's extension -- even if he does come back and only misses one start...should have waited.
MRI
I'm trying to imagine the trainers / doctors talking about this in the clubhouse: "Well, Chris, we really don't know what's going on with your elbow, but we aren't going to do an MRI . . . we'll just wait and see what happens."
I dunno -- maybe its not that big of a deal, but it just seems weird to me.
by Ray Lankford on Apr 4, 2007 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Ray Ray!
My only explanation for the no MRI thing is that it may just show a bunch of swelling around the joint at this time since the elbow had so much edema in it. Chances are an MRI will be performed before Carp throws off a mound again.
Sure
by Ray Lankford on Apr 4, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Man, I hope
by rockin redbird on Apr 4, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
first off
Positive=Wells looked good, didn't deserve the loss...agree with the need for outfield bat. Go CARDS!
So we're down to...
I wonder if Keisler regrets shooting his mouth off when he was sent down...
It'd be nice
Brad Thompson
Mike Smith
Randy Keisler
Troy Cate
Ryan Franklin
Chris Narveson
Josh Hancock
Braden Looper throwing with his left hand
It'll be Hawksworth.....
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 4, 2007 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
"I feel like it's a little better.
No kidding, silly. If they did ligament tests, the stretched out your elbow and broke up some of the swelling. That is going to give you more range of motion.
Carpenter, when struggling on Sunday, appeared to be 'overthrowing' his curveball. I wonder if perhaps he was throwing harder than usual or than he was ready, and the reaction was swelling.
I'm not particularly worried yet, even if Carp goes to the DL for 2 weeks. We have yet to see Wainwright or Reyes yet this season, either of which could have breakout years that out perform Carpenter this season.
I'm especially keen on Wainer. He may end up being the Ace of this staff by midseason.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
So how does the rotation shake-down?
MON - Offday
TUE - NYM -Wells
WED - NYM -Looper
THUR - Offday
FRI - HOU -Wainer
SAT - HOU -Reyes
SUN - HOU -Wells
MON - PIT -Looper
TUE - PIT -?
If it isn't Carp, Wainwright and Reyes would have to go on 4 days rest:
To setup,
SUN - NYM -Carpenter
MON - Offday
TUE - NYM -Wells
WED - NYM -Looper
THUR - Dayoff
FRI - HOU -Wainer
SAT - HOU -Reyes
SUN - HOU -Wells (5th day)
MON - PIT -Looper 5th day)
TUE - PIT - Wainer (4th day)
WED - PIT - Reyes (4th day)
THUR - Off-day
FRI - MIL - Wells (5th day)
SAT - MIL - Looper (5th day)
SUN - MIL - Carpenter on 14th day.
If they decide to let Hancock spot start in PIT on Tuesday,
SUN - NYM -Carpenter
MON - Offday
TUE - NYM -Wells
WED - NYM -Looper
THUR - Offday
FRI - HOU -Wainer
SAT - HOU -Reyes
SUN - HOU -Wells (5th day)
MON - PIT -Looper (5th day)
TUE - PIT - Hancock
WED - PIT - Wainer (5th day)
THUR - Offday
FRI - MIL - Reyes (6th day)
SAT - MIL - Wells (6th day)
SUN - MIL - Looper (6th day)
MON - PIT - Carpenter on 15th day
Hmm....I like throwing Hancock) or someone in there and letting Carp have 2 weeks off, no matter what they say in the next few days.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions
If there's a spot start
Wells
First, the walks, though one was intentional. Maybe in the 3rd or 4th he let the first two get on, one via walk and the other b/c he was behind in the count. Then he got behind Alou and eventually was able to wriggle out of it. A second -- the pickoff throw to 1st. Maybe he just tried to throw it too hard b/c he was close to picking off Reyes on the previous attempt. But he can't give up that base. And finally, the backup slider (cutter?) that stayed up for El Duque and pushed us behind by 4. Maybe it was a tired slider he threw but there's probably an equal chance that, after striking out Green on a fantastic pitch, and walking Valentin intentionally to bring up the pitcher, he thought he was out of it and just flung one up there. He has a chance, I think, to be really good for us if he can maintain his concentration. When he really needed to make a good pitch, he was able to make it.
Brooms
But I do want to alert you Cardinal loyalists to something that is very evident at this moment to everyone outside the 314 area code: Your team is not very good.
This is clear to those outside cardinal nation who are not blinded by the excessive celebration your organization and city feels is necessary on this opening series against your hated rivals. You celebrate how you want, but there's a clear indication that perhaps you just don't know how to win with class.
- You don't extend your opening day celebration over 2 days in front of ANY team. Banners are raised and rings are to be handed out on opening day and always before the first pitch of the season. You then move on with the NEW season. Not even the RedSox took their ceremony to these levels. And that was in front of the Yankees in April 2005.
- You don't put championship patches on your gold trimmed jerseys and caps that are actually bigger than your team emblem. Trust me; everyone already knows you guys are the 2006 champs. No reminder is necessary. Please tell me you are wearing those things ALL season? You may as well just put on bulls-eyes.
- You don't celebrate a game 7 victory in the visitor's clubhouse by mocking the opposing team's fans and players. The "Jose Jose Jose" chant last October led by tonight's STL starting pitcher was classless. And I assure you, it was not forgotten.
- Like you did with your team, you also introduce all 25 players from the other team on opening day. You introduced only the starting 9 for the Mets on Sunday. This was on National TV and an event representing not just STL, but MLB as a whole. You dropped the ball and managed it as if it was a local KPLR broadcast. It was disrespectful and, even more so unprofessional.
- Your manager should not throw out critiques of the opposing team's CF after an opening day loss. I don't know what LaRussa was drinking this time, but calling Beltran's 250 foot strike that pegged Eck at the plate 'foolish' is ridiculous. What is foolish is sending home a guy who runs like my 10year old niece, against a notorious CF cannon, down by 4 with only 1 out and the best hitter in baseball due up next. Seriously, I hope Tony didn't drive home Sunday night. If he doesn't find help for his little problem, his next book may be titled "3 Nights in Jail".
Listen, I lived in STL. I like your city most of the time. You are a good baseball town even though McCarver, Costas, and the Buck media mafia tend to give you far more credit on the National stage than what is necessary. So I mean this when I say that you guys cannot fall for this celebratory BS your city and org is feeding you and expect it to sustain your happiness all season long. Your mgmt let you down by not reloading a team that is clearly on the downfall after posting only 83 wins last year. Comparing you to the elite class of the NL (Mets), you have the edge at only one position (Pujols over Delgado). You have a reliever starting tonight. You have Muhammed Ali in CF. You have an OFer who plays b/c his dad is the pitching coach, when you should have grabbed Carlos Lee. Your pitching staff is in shambles. I can go on.....
It is undeniable that your team has guts and replaces the lack of talent and increase in age with a 110% effort mentality. This mentality displayed by guys like Eckstein, Edmonds, Speizo, and Rolen is commendable and helped you strike gold in the 2006 playoffs. But in a 162 game season, your lack of talent and athleticism displayed so effortlessly by guys like Beltran, Wright, and Reyes will catch up to you.
This is why the Mets are a 95 win team now and for the next decade with a minor league system stocked with absolute studs; and the Cardinals are what they are....an 83 win team. A team that is the first defending WS winners in 64 years to start a season by losing their first two games and scoring a total of two or fewer runs in those games (to add...against 2 starters that are a combined 98 years old). An old team that is one year older and currently 2 games behind the Pirates in the standings.
I really hope you guys enjoy your 2006 trophy and rings. Now excuse me why I go get my broom.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
I hate to break it to you
But if you want to take it personally that the team is, you know, proud of winning a championship, then go for it.
Thank you for the celebration etiquette lessons
I'll second that yawn, but I did get a kick out of
Workin' pretty hard for those "significant" stats there, eh? Reminds me of a funny scene from an otherwise pretty bad Tom Selleck movie, "Mr. Baseball." He was trying to convince his manager not to bench him, and he said, "But I led the team in 8th inning home runs in the month of August!" or something to that effect. Good stuff. Cheesy movie.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 4, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You're kind of a jerk
Good luck in '07, and if the things you are so excited about really bother you as much as they seem to, you might consider seeking professional help.
you know, Danny
perhaps
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee?
He's a Mets fan
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting point
As for the money...absolutely spend it. You gave Edmonds far more than he is worth. Regardless of that, you also have a new stadium and tons of revenue coming in...you can afford Carlos Lee. You have to put fresh talent in that new ballpark.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
you do realize
I don't know why we're even talking about this; Lee was never going to go to STL. I doubt if WJ even talked to him. He's a decent hitter but not a great ballplayer and will be lucky if he ever puts up 30HR or .900 ops again, even playing in minute maid.
Thank You, Bill James
You can use all the historical stats you want on Edmonds to prove your point, but sooner or later common sense will have to prevail, my friend.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
"sooner or later common sense will
it will, but I don't think you'll be giving in too soon.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
IQ Test
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I'd rather have
Jermaine Dye
Adam Dunn
Bobby Abreu
None of which would be possible by signing Carlos Lee. During the time Jim Edmonds will be on the Cardinals, Lee will make $11m and $12m. He will then balloon out to 18.5 m for the next 4 seasons.
Jim Edmonds will cost $11m this year and 8m next.
That's called good baseball sense. I'd rather pay $18.5m in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 to Andruw Jones or Adam Dunn.
Based on your 'Baseball IQ', Carlos Lee is worth just as much as Carlos Beltran in the years 2009 thru 2011, as both are being paid the same.
Tsk.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
more to the point
by Birds on the Matt on Apr 4, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
common sense?
But hey, lets give him $100M and a no trade clause to play for an NL team!
Well, a few things:
- Mets minor league system in 2006 was ranked #28 of 30 teams by Baseball America. Lastings Milledge will never be a Top 50 player in this league, yet is considered to be the end-all-be-all for players in the minor league system.
- It's a baseball game, not a soccer match, so the 'Jose, Jose, Jose' chant should be mocked as often as possible and with fervor. Mets fans gathered in Game 5 of the NLCS last year behind the Mets dugout and chanted it from innings 6 through 9, loud enough that it could be heard on the national broadcast. This was in Busch Stadium. I'm sure the Cardinals players were none to pleased.
+Beltran throwing home was indeed 'foolish'. If he had not gotten Eckstein out, it would have allowed Preston to go to 2nd base, with the score 5-2 with the best hitter in baseball coming up and subsequently the heart of the order. Up 4 runs, you keep the doubleplay intact, don't let more runners get into scoring position.
+To critique the Cardinals pitching staff as 'in shambles' when, as you said, your front two starters are 98 years old is a riot. The Mets have no pitching in the minor leagues, and they have two ancient corner OF. So, where are they going to come up with the money to go out and get 3 starting pitchers and two impact corner OF? Not to mention a future 2B? The Mets are a team built to win now and be sold off soon. In 3 years, Beltran, Reyes and Wright will be almost all that is left of the 2006 team.
+As for the celebration, I believe the ring ceremony was not done on opening night because it was indeed a nationally televised game.
+The Mets closer makes Izzy look like a still lake on a cool summer evening. Brad Lidge, I imagine goes through life thinking, "Wheew, I'm glad I'm not Billy Wagner".
+Finally, the Mets lost. You can disparge the Cardinals all you want if it helps take away the sting, but frankly, the team you saw in the playoffs of the Mets is what they are should any of their ancient pitching go down. They are literally putting a bandaid on their starting rotation hoping they can use the fountain of youth for the next 160 games.
So, I hope you feel better.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't take someone seriously
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
alright....I'll give it a try.
Reyes - Wright - Heilman - Joe Smith - Mike Pelfrey - Milledge - Humber - Hernandez
That is Major League talent that the Mets farm system has produced in just under 3 years.
And I appreciate the BaseballAmerica plug and see that you are a loyal subscriber. So then you would know that those rankings fluctuate from year to year as drastically as a South American Currencies exchange.
Your ranking is based on 2006. Likley analysis that was performed in 2005 and published in March of 2006. So ranking is based on information from a Mets farm system that was largely representative of the pre-Minaya (he's the GM of the Mets ;)) era, and certainly before the Mets had established their Baseball Academy in the Carib.
Since then, the system has established highly coveted players like Carlos Gomez (actually faster than Reyes) and Fernando Martinez. Good arms like Pelfrey, Humber, and Smith. And other prospects that allowed us to pull of the Delgado and LoDuca trades. We've also acquired live arms like Borgos, Vargas, and Carvajal and another high potential OF in Ben Johnson. The team in Port St. Lucie, managed by Gary Carter, won the Single A Championship last year.
So please do your own research when you start claiming expertise about another team's farm system, as opposed to throwing me outdated analysis published by someone else. That's lazy. I expect far more from the 'greatest and most knowledgable fans in baseball'. I do not make assumptions about the Cards farm system, b/c I simply don't know or care. All I do know is that your current Major League team is .500 caliber and lacks talent and athleticism beyond 1B.
Now seriously...the motto. It's got to go, Chaci. I know too many Cardinal Fans that are pissed to no end when you raise that sign on National TV and embarrass your fine city.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So you did your own analysis of the
Baseball Prospectus gave the Mets farm system higher ranks in 2007 (based on 2006) but still echos the sentiment of Baseball America in 2006:
Few teams in baseball have two outfielders to match Fernando Martinez and Carlos Gomez or two righthanders to match the duo of Philip Humber and Mike Pelfrey. So they get huge points for top-level talent, but there is little to talk about after that.
As far as 'talent and athleticism beyond 1B.' is beyond misguided. The Cardinals have a superior 1B, 3B and catcher defensively, and superior 3B offensively. The 'athleticism' you speak of I hope doesn't apply to Carlos Delgado, Shawn Green, PeesOnHisHands Alou, Paul 'I couldn't throw my own grandma out' Lo Duca and your starting rotation features three rickety bags of bones in Glavine, El Duque and Pedro's big toe.
'Chaci'? Don't be a condescending prick. You've embarassed yourself with some of the ludcrious statements you throw around as 'fact', but I'm willing to pass it off as simply being a 'homer'. This new development to the schtick is sad.
Maybe the sign is a bit old. Would you prefer this one?

I'm sure you'll be happy to come back and post if Braden Looper beats the Mets tonight. The scary Mets lineup that has produced 2 XBH, 1 of which by a pitcher is surely going to give him a roughing up.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU SEE!!!!
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And
by sherwood on Apr 4, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Classic
Wow. Gary Carter. Single A Championship. Really. You convinced me now that I know that. Seriously.
Yes...that clearly was my only point
typical myopic answer coming from your kind.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice spray pattern
Danny
Two games?
By the way, no, I don't want Carlos Lee, and I don't regret Houston overpaying him. I'd rather have Jimmy Baseball, thanks.
OTOH, I don't think Beltran's throw was foolish -I understand the percentages favor holding the runner, but once in a while a super play like Beltran's throw is a joy to watch, and can make a difference in the game. If Jimmy had done it, we'd have gone wild.
Yeah But...
:)
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
To be clear, I was not trying to incite a riot here. Nor should what I said be taken as whining or crying. I honestly don't care how your franchise celebrates. I actually want you to continue with the over-the-top ceremonious BS to make my team more angry. I wasn't crying....it was a warning that more teams are now gunning for you, and they happen to have bigger guns. The winter is for celebrating, and you had better start thinking forward or else your 83 win team will find itself in a huge hole in 2007. All the 2006 Championship patches you wear can't help you then. For that, I do believe you guys have a gripe with mgmt for not re-loading. Carlos Lee was just one example i was using. They could have done something on a lesser caliber. Point is...they could have done SOMETHING.
As for the mets...yes the rotation is shaky. We are relying on the young arms in back-end to come through. But we did have 8 different starting pitchers before May 15 last year, and that formula worked well with the solid Bullpen and stellar offense. I prefer a team centered around starting pitching, but that is a rarity nowadays.
NL East is stacked. I fully agree with you on the Marlins. They appear to be coming around on their 5-7 year cycle formula. Braves improved the pen. Phillies have better starting pitching, but they are still the Phillies.
Please don't bring up Kazmir. Though I do think his arm will fall off (happens to most smaller left-handed power pitchers), I would love to have him right now.
Zito was way to expensive and overrated. Plus he's a California guy and would have been eaten up my the NY media. You'll be pressed to find any baseball expert or even a Mets Fan that is upset at Mets mgmt over that one.
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You see
If you want to come here and engage in well-intentioned conversation, you're more than welcome. You can even perform your bashing with an obvious light-hearted, snarky demeanor and you'll find plenty of people willing to take it as well as they give it. That's the way it should be.
Invite Accepted
In the end...as you point out, this is all supposed to be fun. It makes it even more fun when the banter actually has some intelligence to it. Which I see is highly possible on this blog as long as it doesn't involve Hardcore Legend. ;).
Good Luck tonight (and 2007). You are going to need it (again).
by Danny1986 on Apr 4, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW....
How can you call our organization classless while coming over here and posting that cowardly bit? Hypocrites are not credible fans.
Not the place for trolls.
by deanj on Apr 4, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank You Danny
According to this logic
I think
by Toddius396 on Apr 4, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It's too bad
One point I have to make. I hope you're listening. The Mets are an OLD TEAM as well. Older than the Cards. And the Mets broke down last year at the end and it cost them, while the Cards got healthy at the end of a brutal, injury marred season and proceeded to win the whole damn thing.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I would not be so sold on your team making it through the season without some major injuries. O
Oh and you better do something about your starting pitching. The Cardinals can't hit soft tossers. But the rest of the league can.
Wow, you must really hate us
Now let's go through your verbose display and find what's worth keeping and what's not.
- You are correct about winning a WS after a barely above-.500 season being impressive, very correct indeed. I would certainly agree that it is impressive, right everybody!?! It is also correct that is was an anomaly, as any knowledgeable Mets fan would know, considering the '73 Mets were an even worse team than our edition last year, yet they still made the playoffs. That year, they defeated a vastly superior Reds team (just like we did to you), but they just didn't play good enough to beat the Athletics (or, how did you put it, didn't take advantage of their opportunities).
- I knew well before your insightful commentary that the Cardinals were limited in minor league talent and were not a great team at the major league level like your Mets. But, you see, one of the major ways that franchises get "stocked with absolute studs" is that you have to receive one of the top picks in the draft. Unfortunately for the Cardinals, we've made the playoffs every year but one since 2000 (and missed it by a couple games that year), so we don't get the benefit of yearly handouts.
- The New York Mets are no longer a "rival" of the St. Louis Cardinals, haven't been for a long time. We already have plenty of rivals, teams that we care whether or not we beat them during a regular season series, because there are actual bragging rights on the line. The Mets - who gives a damn? Maybe the Mets are looking for a rival because they think that one down year from the Braves after 14 consecutive division titles (IOW, them kicking your butt) means they aren't worthy anymore. Be careful with accusations of misguided arrogance. (Wait, wait, the Mets do have a rival - the Yankees. That's worked out real well in the last 11 years, huh?)
- Seeing as the Mets haven't won a World Series in twenty years, who knows what manner of celebration they would impose on the team that lost in the League Championship series? Really - who knows? They could be just as gaudy as us. But we won't know that until they are actually good enough to win three series in October. Or, how did you put it again, take advantage of their opportunities.
YOU CAN'T ADD
I hate to point this out but...
Not that I am defending the guy but those who live in glass houses...
I'll stop disliking Jose Reyes
Also, dunno about other regions
Enjoy your REGULAR SEASON success
But thanks for explaining why the Mets woun't get out of the first round of the playoff this year! Your quote "(to add...against 2 starters that are a combined 98 years old)"
Yeah you said it- your "aces" are a combined 98 years old and you have ZERO pitching behind them and washed up Pedro. Have fun winning the NL East then getting beat by better starting pitching in the playoffs.
P.S.- You'll be singing a different tune after you get beat by Braden Looper tonight.
by Born in 82 on Apr 4, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions
lboros speaks the truth
Well...
I was bored at work and it has certainly helped me kill the last 2 hours.
I shouldn't have fed the troll, though.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
feeding the troll
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 4, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather
I understand why you wouldn't respond to such a person, as it only feeds his need for attention and/or his perverse pleasure in watching other people get worked up. But I find that it goes against my personality to leave undefended something I cherish.
Sometimes my old signature is too true.
True enough
but what's to defend against?
"i hate the cardinals and their fans with a passion because they took something that i really wanted --- a win in the nlcs."
if i were him, i'd be frustrated too. i probably wouldn't proclaim my frustrations to met fans, but that's just me.
i'll also allow that his critique of the cardinals is not without substance --- our team has its flaws, and maybe it's not a playoff team. we've all been discussing those very issues this winter --- and we know the cardinals a lot better than he does.
let him go on his way. i hope he feels better for having come in here.
Actually, it was kind of fun
well said, Larry
off topic
Rings
Technically, anyone who helped generate revenue for the team did help win the World Series. Granted, the guy who mowed the grass had a millionth of a percent as much of an impact as Chris Carpenter, but still....they helped.
Does anyeone have a bp.com subscription?
by Jonathan23 on Apr 4, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions
it's definitely worth the money
As far as the article, he doesn't say anything that we haven't already heard; IE elbow is swollen, carp had bone chips previously so it could be worse than they're saying, we'll know more next week.
The BP guys are very set against signing pitchers to long-term contracts, so they go on to use this as an example of why it's not wise.
The BP guys
AJ Burnett
Available?
Belliard for the Nats today
on the topic...
by longhornscardinals on Apr 4, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh.
by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 4, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The Nats...
They've got Belliard, former Card Jack Wilson, Felipe Lopez, and Christian Guzman.
I feel bad for Belly. Poor guy took about an 80% pay cut and now has to watch Guzman, the $16 million man, play in front of him.
Former Card Jack Wilson
Hey, after 2 games
Gotta look for the positives.
Hardcore...
i just got that idea, for some reason, whenever you posted that pic to Danny1986.
(it doesn't seem like you could be he, because you post during games. but maybe you've got a PDA or something with you.)
Ha, no
He was ranting and I remembered I had that AP photo saved of that sign during the World Series.
It's nice to see he called me an idiot as a parting shot. Classy.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Valatan
did you see the entire first game? you throw out stats and quips but if you arent watching the games how can you comment on the "feel" of watching them?
all the stats and boxscores in the world arent a substitute for actually watching the games.
not trying to be confrontational or holier than thou, but i watched every pitch but a handful of games last year, and plan to do the same this year. just a bit confusing to be told by someone who missed half the game how i "feel" watching every pitch, isn't correct.
by Rentboy on Apr 4, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions
the 8th inning is after the fifth...
and it wasn't. for one thing, this is April. it's not the World Series. for another thing, it didn't feel that way. because it wasn't nearly as high-leverage of an AB. it was one game, which the Cards were probably going to lose no matter what Pujols did in that AB.
Valatan could've watched nothing but that single AB, and his statement would absolutely be correct.
Nice...
I have no idea...
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 4, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions
Here is Hummel's quote:
Also in the article TLR promised that Izzy will pitch tonight come hell or high water...
Some weird stuff so far this season. Game 3 and Miles is already getting starts to relieve our new 2b? This is going to be a long season.
rings
lineups
reyes ss
loduca c
beltran cf
delgado 1b
wright 3b
alou lf
green rf
valetin 2b
maine p
cards
eck ss
dunc lf
AP 1b
rolen 3b
edmonds cf
wilson rf
molina c
miles 2b
looper p
...kennedy?? i'd still much rather see spezio than wilson. though i still think he'll get a homer before it's all set and done.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 4, 2007 7:10 PM EDT reply actions
That's ok, Molina
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 4, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions

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