foe scores
if you haven't had a chance to read Cardboard Gods yet, here's the perfect starter post: a meditation on pot-smoking, baseball cards, and hal mcrae, the cards' batting coach. could this explain why the hitters aren't seeing the ball so well?
i've been looking into another possible explanation, which came to me after i saw that ian snell followed up his strong outing vs st louis with an almost equally strong game vs the dodgers, who are 3d in the league in scoring. then i remembered that last week john maine, who held the cards to 1 hit in 7 innings during the season-opening series, took a no-hitter into the 7th inning vs the marlins, the league's 2d-best offense. so i asked: have the cardinals simply run into a bunch of hot starting pitchers in the early going?
30 minutes' worth of homework provided the answer: yeah, they kind of have. not lights-out, ball-a-fire hot, but well above average. before i go on, let me issue a loud disclaimer: i don't believe this factor alone explains the cardinals' slow-hitting start. i think it's one of a range of factors, which include the cold weather and the team's spotty health. when you throw bad weather, bad health, and good starting pitching at a team that only has four above-average hitters, the result is bound to be an alarmingly bad batting line.
here's the composite line of all starting pitchers the cardinals have faced, minus their stats against the cardinals --- in other words, this line represents what those guys have done vs teams other than the cardinals. the second line in the table shows what they've done vs the cards, and the bottom line is the nl average for all starting pitchers:
| W-L | ERA | WHIP | OPP AVG |
BB/9 | HR/9 | |||
| vs other nl teams | 14-11 | 3.80 | 1.29 | .243 | 3.5 | 0.94 | ||
| vs cards | 6-5 | 2.64 | 1.04 | .216 | 2.3 | 0.83 | ||
| nl avg | 12-14 | 4.19 | 1.38 | .261 | 3.5 | 0.93 |
compare the first and third lines: the cards' average opposing starter so far in 2007 is nearly half a run per game better than league average. what does a starter with a 3.80 era look like? the three starters closest to that mark are all #1 / #2 types: chris capuano (3.68), barry zito (3.70), and livan hernandez (3.96). suppan is at 3.91, but that includes his game vs the cardinals (he's at 4.26 against the rest of the league).
likewise, the st louis' opposing starters so far in 2007 are nearly 20 points better than the norm in batting avg allowed. now remember, i've subtracted out the pitchers' stats vs the cards; this is what they're doing to hitters on other teams. the list of nl starters with opponent averages in the vicinity of .243 includes a bunch more #1 / #2 types: livan, jamie moyer, brad penny, chris young, and tom glavine, to name a few. ben sheets is also on this list, at .250; take away his game vs the cards and he's holding the league to a .220 average --- yet that's only the 7th-best mark among the pitchers st louis has faced. in one-third of their games, the cardinals have faced a starting pitcher who is holding other nl teams to a .206 average or lower. against a number of these guys, the cardinals actually fared better than the rest of the league --- or at least fared no worse:
| vs others | vs cards | |
|---|---|---|
| lilly | .164 | .167 |
| marquis | .180 | .241 |
| snell | .182 | .180 |
| el duque | .206 | .227 |
| sheets | .220 | .364 |
| glavine | .244 | .286 |
here's another way to break this down: only 5 nl teams have gotten a better era out of their starters than the 3.80 era averaged by the cardinals' opponents; only 3 rotations have held batters to an average below .243. so it's as if the cards have faced one of the league's 4 best pitching staffs every series. when you go against teams like that night after night, you have to earn every run. unfortunately, it doesn't get any easier this week; they'll see rich hill (0.41 era), kyle lohse (1.91), jason marquis (2.65 vs non-cardinal opponents), and bronson arroyo (3.25), plus carlos zambrano and aaron harang.
let me reiterate: i'm not trying to explain away the cardinals' offensive problems. their woes are very real; the offense is truly bad. i know that; we all know that. but the weakness has been exaggerated by a variety of factors, particularly a) small sample size, and b) disproportionately good opposing pitchers.
the most telling thing about this whole exercise lies in the bb/9 column of the first table. go back up and look. the cards' opponents have walked 3.5 men per 9 innings vs other nl teams, which is right at league average ---- but the cards are only drawing 2.3 walks per 9 innings off these guys. there's a whole lot of anxious, undisciplined hitting --- and outmaking --- encapsulated in that little statistical comparison.
Update [2007-4-24 10:41:42 by lboros]: juan encarnacion watch: he made his rehab debut last night by going 0 for 3 with a walk.
0 recs |
59 comments
Comments
Very Interesting
I find that walk rate really illuminating. Too many free swinging, I-refuse-to-simply-look-at-pitches type hitters right now. (PDub and Skippy the Wonder Squirrel, I'm looking in your direction.) Even Eck, who has been a very good taker of pitches the past couple of years, seems to be swinging at nearly anything. Here's to hoping the O improves, and the team makes some moves to improve as well.
by the red baron on Apr 24, 2007 9:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did we
by lordsummer on Apr 24, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
I know lb did a post about the whole swinging at the first strike thing, and there was some discussion of it last year....seems to me when the 06 offense was really struggling, they were hacking at everything, and when they were being patient, working counts, taking walks, and working on getting the starter out early, they were able to beat up on tired bullpens and win games.
by nota bene on Apr 24, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pot smoking, eh?
by effin fisk on Apr 24, 2007 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Slow moving
Anyone else see Rich Harden is on the DL again? He was described in the mlbcom article as Oakland's "co-ace". My heart broke all over again just reading that.
by the red baron on Apr 24, 2007 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very Interesting, LB...
by rockin redbird on Apr 24, 2007 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
David Halberstam
The most notable thing about the book was its depiction of the Yankees as a conservative, largely white, dying dynasty, and the Cardinals, with their black stars Gibson, White, Flood, and Brock, as the symbol of a new era in baseball. I didn't think he captured the drama of the 1964 World Series, so the book tailed off for me at the end, but it's certainly of considerable interest to any Cardinals fan.
His baseball book Summer of '49, about an epic Yankees-Red Sox pennant race, is pretty good. I enjoyed it quite a bit because I knew nothing about that season and found the discussions of DiMaggio and Williams interesting. (That was before I developed Yankees-Red Sox fatigue.)
Halberstam was not a great writer, but he was a very, very good journalist.
by Youneverknow on Apr 24, 2007 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two things:
- there's a diary on the topic by RosevilleRedbird.
- The Yankee/Sox fatigue is shared by many, including me, thanks to ESPN. I did, however, find it shocking that Joe Torre would allow ARod and Jeter to get plunked in the shoulder and elbow, respectively, without retaliating in any way.
by silent_bob on Apr 24, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
by Youneverknow on Apr 24, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thoughtful insight
The lack of discipline is definitely the most troublesome part, but also the most fixable. With the exception of Wilson and maybe Edmonds, a change in anxiety could do the trick.
This weekend could help. I see we face Marquis and Zambrano. Both have had issues with pitch counts. Zambrano threw 103 pitches in 5+ inning last night.
by _pistol_ on Apr 24, 2007 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Opponent Pitching
But I was more interested in the difference between lines one and two. Measuring these pitchers against the rest of the league is interesting to consider strength of schedule, but whether you meant to or not, you also measured our offense against the rest of the league! Lines one and two show that these pitchers pitched even better against us, than they pitched against the rest of the league.
Your numbers suggested that those pitchers are doing better than average, but they also suggested that our hitters are doing worse against the same pitchers than everyone else is.
by skmsw on Apr 24, 2007 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's correct
that's why i'm not making the claim that strong pitching alone explains the cardinals' slow start. i'm claiming it's strong pitching combined with bad hitting ---- and these figures illustrate the point.
by lboros on Apr 24, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed;
Just like, to your point, some days with the pitching performances we've seen, it hasn't mattered who the hitters were, no one was gonna hit them the way they were throwing.
But probably more the former than the latter.
by skmsw on Apr 24, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, sorry, I'm still happy about this weekend
- Took series from the Cubs
- Signs of life from MV3, including 2 comebacks on Sunday
- 7 strong from Looper. LOOPER!!!?!
by sdrone on Apr 24, 2007 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
for those who don't follow closely,
by longhornscardinals on Apr 24, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh,
by longhornscardinals on Apr 24, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence
by jeff abs on Apr 24, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those who want to follow more closely
by liam on Apr 24, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gosh, thanks
by redbird2006in on Apr 24, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Go Cards!
by liam on Apr 24, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really good stuff as usual
The biggest problem I've seen so far is not so much the poor average, but rather the lack of extra base hits. Our slugging has just been atrocious and I wonder how that compares w/ the other teams those pitchers have faced.
At the plate, they've clearly been anxious and have seemed to have absolutely no good-pitch recognition. They're taking good pitches to hit and swinging at pitchers' pitches or balls. It's been awful. I hope that Sunday broke them out of it but Aaron Harang is, after all, no Matt Belisle.
by chuckb on Apr 24, 2007 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great breakdown
I haven't followed rotation juggling for other teams, but I know Tony's taken the opportunity to line up good pitchers in more important games using the off days to juggle starting assignments around (see, Keisler not pitching against Chicago this weekend, Reyes/Wainwright not pitching against the Mets, etc).
I'm assuming other clubs have had the same opportunities, so are they moving starters around to line up their better pitchers against the Cards?
by Phyrkrakr on Apr 24, 2007 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Encarnacion
Narveson -- also threw nearly 120 pitches.
Especially note-worthy is that he struck out Billy Butler, one of the hottest hitters in the minors, in the 9th. Butler had hit a solo homer off Narvy earlier in the game.
Narveson's value probably has taken a good step up after that performance.
by ArRedbird on Apr 24, 2007 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Link to the Cardboard Gods Blog
The analysis of the pitching matchups the Birds have faced reminds me of a baseball philosophy a former minor league pitcher friend of mine used to always say... "Great arms will always beat great sticks." To take that a step further, great arms will beat great sticks and make mediocre sticks look downright awful. We have been facing alot of good to great arms and throw in the mix that our great sticks (MV3) have been cold to begin with... Well, it sounds like it isn't out of line to be 8-10 right now.
Anyone have any thoughts on why we have been so stinkin bad at home so far this year? That is one thing I can't figure out.
by Mrthe2th on Apr 24, 2007 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
luck/SSS? or park effect on SLG?
then i googled "park effects 2006 busch" and got an SNY article; it says last year busch increased lefty power by eight percent, decreased righty power by 16 percent.
edmonds' slg at busch this season is a whopping .227; away, it's .400. but duncan's slg is much better at home - .682 to .525.
pujols' slg is much better on the road so far this year, .523 to .385, as is rolen's, .484 to .360.
so it may be that the MV3's slugging percentages at home and away thus far in 2007 have been significant in the disparity between their home and away records. one would hope edmonds's starts to even out (as well as improve overall), preferably in FAVOR of busch III, and that pujols's and rolen's also are less disparate over the course of the season (as well as improve overall).
that's, of course, assuming that we think the park factors measured at busch in 2006 will remain true in the future.
by nycbirdo on Apr 24, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of mcrae
"What did he get today? Three hits?" McRae said.
Told that it was two more than that, McRae exclaimed, "Five? Oh, goodness, I missed a couple of those. Keep me informed. When you're rooting real hard, you don't remember a lot of stuff."
Just what we need, a batting coach who "roots real hard" and somehow misses half of his offensively struggling all-star third baseman's at-bats.
by SleepyCA on Apr 24, 2007 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: McRae missing stuff
by 26thMan on Apr 24, 2007 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice pull
What we didn't see in that video was him sparking an L, then telling those reporters "Sorry for yelling."
by 26thMan on Apr 24, 2007 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it
by Mrthe2th on Apr 24, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised...
Given: Anybody who becomes a manager in MLB has an extremely "competitive" personality; the "teacher" types tend to be coaches, minor-league managers, or "roving" instructors. Watching their team play incompetent baseball (missing the cutoff man, making baserunning mistakes, not hustling) is a particular irritant, increasing that manager's stress level;
Given: There is a certain percentage of media types who aren't very good at asking questions! (As a lifelong reporter myself, I've seen examples of same everywhere... guys who are fine writers, but are clumsy interviewers. There is also a smaller percentage of media types who intentionally try to provoke emotional outbursts from those they interview, looking for the splashy sound bite/quote. Journalists also tend to be "competitive" personalities; trying to produce a "better" story than their opposite numbers who work for a different newspaper/TV station/radio station!
Combine clumsy or "baiting" questions in the (ahem) "gang-bang" setting of most post-game Q&A's with said manager (multiple questioners surrounding a lone source), and one has cooked up a perfect setting for an emotional outburst from said source!
Obviously, the stresses of the post-game interview are harsher in locales where there is also more intense journalistic competition (New York, Boston, Chicago, etc.) So, I'm surprised there aren't more "explosions"...
by The Ol Goaler on Apr 24, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmmmmm
Mindblowing. WTF was he doing all game? I mean, can you imagine La Russa not knowing how many hits anybody on the team had?
And this was interesting....
Rolen smiled when he heard this. "He's my man," Rolen said. "He made some excuse? That's perfect.
"He's an approach guy, let's put it that way. He's so concerned with process and approach that results don't matter as much."
That's a not-very-subtle way to criticize somebody for not paying attention....
by nota bene on Apr 24, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
by Birds on the Matt on Apr 24, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BABIP
It all tends to regress to a mean, which would be worth looking at in a while, but not after three weeks.
LD/FB/GB analysis is a good idea though....
by Jonathan23 on Apr 24, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miguel Cabrera fuel for our fantasies
"Pujols is the best. He is my hero," says Cabrera. "If I were traded, I'd like to play with him in St. Louis, though I'd rather have Pujols playing for the Marlins. But I'd really like to play with him. He is a player who has consistently achieved exceptional production every year, and even won a Gold Glove."
It may not ever be feasible, but itś nice to know he would like to play for the Cards.
by mdarshan on Apr 24, 2007 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bizarro home/road splits
home records for NL central teams:
7-4, 3-5, 6-7, 1-6, 0-4, 3-8
road records:
5-3, 6-4, 3-3, 7-4, 7-6, 4-4
by redbird2006in on Apr 24, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just to show how awesome APu is
(2004-2007)
Albert Pujols
141 HRs
514 RBIs
177 Ks
.327 BA
1.004 OPS
3 All-Star, 1 MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 1 World Series, 2 Pennants
Alex Rodriguez
133 HRs
391 RBIs
428 Ks
.303 BA
1.008 OPS
3 All-Star, 1 MVP, 0 Gold Glove, 0 World Series, 0 Pennants
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The RBI #
by gonzostl on Apr 24, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only that
by nota bene on Apr 24, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also given the difference in K's
by OCCardsFan on Apr 24, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is currently carrying a
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Furthermore
(2001-2007)
Albert Pujols
255 HRs
770 RBIs
404 Ks
.330 BA
1.042 OPS
5 All-Star, 1 MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 1 World Series, 2 Pennants
Alex Rodriguez
289 HRs
786 RBIs
807 Ks
.304 BA
1.053 OPS
6 All-Star, 2 MVP, 2 Gold Glove, 0 World Series, 0 Pennants
Coming into this season?
Albert Pujols
250 HRs
758 RBIs
394 Ks
.332 BA
1.047 OPS
Alex Rodriguez
275 HRs
752 RBIs
788 Ks
.302 BA
.977 OPS
This early season burst really helped ARod open up a lead on Pujols for best player this decade, ( I have yet to look at Barry Bonds stats since 2001).
Pardon any math errors, please point them out.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pinto's day by day database
It's surprising how many people have more HR's than albert since the 2000 season...
It's a little different when you just consider 2001-2007.
by SleepyCA on Apr 24, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols 2004 to 2007 OPS
Did you take the sum of of the four season's OPS's and divide by 4? :(
by Jonathan23 on Apr 24, 2007 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have Arods OPS at ~ .970
by Jonathan23 on Apr 24, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2004-2007
Pujols OPS 1.059
Arod OPS .968
ortiz ops 1.010
by SleepyCA on Apr 24, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is Hanfer would be second
"Me hit ball"
by Jonathan23 on Apr 24, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but it certainly appears that way
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's clean this up
I'm not sure what the hell happened to my totals. A spreadsheet gone mad, apparently.
(2004-2007)
Albert Pujols
141 HRs
389 RBIs
177 Ks
.327 BA
1.059 OPS
3 All-Star, 1 MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 1 World Series, 2 Pennants
Alex Rodriguez
133 HRs
391 RBIs
428 Ks
.303 BA
.968 OPS
3 All-Star, 1 MVP, 0 Gold Glove, 0 World Series, 0 Pennants
Compare the two since Albert came into the league:
(2001-2007)
Albert Pujols
255 HRs
770 RBIs
404 Ks
.330 BA
1.042 OPS
5 All-Star, 1 MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 1 World Series, 2 Pennants
Alex Rodriguez
289 HRs
786 RBIs
807 Ks
.304 BA
.989 OPS
6 All-Star, 2 MVP, 2 Gold Glove, 0 World Series, 0 Pennants
Coming into this season?
Albert Pujols
250 HRs
758 RBIs
394 Ks
.332 BA
1.048 OPS
Alex Rodriguez
275 HRs
752 RBIs
788 Ks
.302 BA
.979 OPS
That should be all squared away now.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel...
by lastplacecubs on Apr 24, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and despite hitting .235
also, i didn't realize the extent to which ludwick is just on fire. his ops so far this season is 1.022, including .919 against lefties.
i realize these sample sizes are tiny, but is there a reason skip schumaker is still ahead of these guys? ludwick's ops in a full season last year (not at aaa, mind you) was .848, which i would gladly take from cf or rf right about now.
by nycbirdo on Apr 24, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick obviously
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 24, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
call em up
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 24, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
J-Rod is sick + hurt?
Injury Update
John Rodriguez has been the designated hitter now for the better part of two weeks thanks to allergies that have him dizzy when running too much. He also has left shoulder and left knee ailments.
ack.
by SleepyCA on Apr 24, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, he's in LF today
by nycbirdo on Apr 24, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone have the 1984 and 1983 payrolls
I know Sporting News used to report them way back when.
Any help would be appreciated.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2007 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wilco
by Jonathan23 on Apr 24, 2007 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Those with a time machine
by player2bnamedl8r on Apr 24, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs



















