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25-year roster

ah, blessed off-day. the sunday bats did their work, and the cards won a series from the cubs. hallelujah, amen.

i don't know about you, but i could use a break. so rather than dissect a game that truly speaks for itself --- the wind blew out, a buncha runs scored, our team scored more --- i'm gonna just goof around with this exercise somebody unveiled at the new MLB Trade Rumors Reader Blog. i'll let the author speak for himself:

I went through the last 25 years of Mets history - 1983 through 2006, inclusive -- and put together a team. A starter at each position. A backup catcher, middle infielder, and outfielder. An extra bat off the bench. A defensive replacement-type. Five starters, 1 closer, and five relievers.

Easy? Sure, except:

  • I took only one player per year.
  • Once I used a player, he couldn't be used again (e.g. only one Dwight Gooden)
  • The player really needed to have the position he's in -- so I couldn't put Todd Hundley as a backup catcher or use John Olerud off the bench.
  • Your rotation's order has to be reasonable. That's not really hard, but whatever.
i'm really not sure what that last guideline means, so i'm just gonna ignore it. i'll also correct this person's math: a 25-year inclusive team would stretch back to 1982, not 1983; his roster only has 24 players on it. and since a 1982 through 2006 stretch is bracketed by st louis world series winners, that's the span i'm going to use. i'll add an extra hitter for the bench, because my starting rotation will be so strong a 12th reliever would never get into the game.

before i dive in, let me note that a VEB community member already has posted his own 25-year cardinal team over at MLBTRRB, which you'll find here. lotta overlap between his roster and mine; some of these calls are no-brainers. i started building my team with the two no-brainiest seasons of all, the cardinals' single best pitching and hitting seasons of the period:

  • tudor 1985. the 6th-best single-season era in franchise history --- and one of only two sub-2.00 marks (along with gibson's 1.12 in 1968) since world war II. since you can only take one player from each year, tudor knocks an mvp (willie mcgee) out of the running.
  • mcgwire 1998. maybe he cheated a little, but you could disqualify a quarter of his homers and he'd still hold the franchise single-season record for home runs. since you can only have one 1st baseman, mcgwire's selection at 1st base removes from contention the only other cardinal mvp of the last 25 years: pujols 2005. after just two choices, both mvps are out.
with half of pujols' career wiped out, we'd better get him onto the team now, before other selections bump him entirely off the roster:
  • pujols 2003. arguably his best season anyway: career highs in batting average, on-base percentage, doubles, runs scored, and ops+. he played left field --- adios lonnie smith, vince coleman, ron gant, and latter-day ray lankford. this choice also bumps out edgar renteria's 2003 campaign, the best season by any cardinal shortstop of this era: 100 rbis, gold glove, averages of .330 / .394 / .480.
now let's head back to the rotation, where outstanding years are more rare than outstanding offensive seasons. aside from tudor, here are the obvious candidates for inclusion in the rotation:
  • carpenter 2005. the only cy young season of the entire 25-year span. he's in.
  • morris 2001. franchise's highest win total of the last 25 years, finished 3d in the cy young, and had two memorable duels with curt schilling in the nlds. that was the postseason that made schilling a star; if morris had just made a better pitch to reggie sanders in game 5, we might have been spared the whole cult of curt. . . . . by the way, morris's rookie season (1997) is nearly identical to '01 in every respect except the win total. this selection trumps one of our best available 2b seasons, fernando vina's .303 / .357 / .418 line (plus gold glove). other worthy 2001 seasons lost are steve kline's extraordinary LOOGY year (240 era+), darryl kile's last season, and jd drew's 1.027 OPS, the best in franchise history for any right fielder not named musial.
  • tewksbury 1992. fourth-best era since WWII, second-best of the last 25 years; also the 2d-best strikeout/walk ratio of the period (tewksie trumped himself the following year). this pick knocks out a pretty good candidate for the bench, geronimo pena (.305 / .386 / .478 in part-time duty) and two phenomenal setup-man seasons, mike perez (9-3, 1.84 era in 93 innings) and todd worrell (2.11 era, .198 opponent avg).
there are a lot of ways we could go with that last rotation slot; let's hold off on it and return now to the lineup. both edmonds and rolen gotta be on this team, and there aren't many years left to choose from for these guys. so let's go with:
  • rolen 2004. both rolen and edmonds had their best year in 2004, so this is quite the tug of war. edmonds had more homers and far better rate-stat figures, and he played a more demanding defensive position, but rolen wins in a backhanded way: the dropoff to his 2d-best season is much steeper than the dropoff to edmonds' 2d best. he's a worthy selection: this is the only 1.000+ OPS season in franchise history by anybody who didn't play outfield or first base.
  • edmonds 2000. he had a higher OPS+ in 2002, but i chose this year for a few reasons: 1) it's one of the two best single-season hr totals by a left-handed hitter in franchise history (edmonds tied his own record in 2004); 2) jim's 129 runs rank as the franchise's 5th-highest total since world war II; and 3) there's another guy from 2002 who i want on the team.
and no, it's not edgar renteria --- although that is mighty tempting. edgar's 2002 has got to be the 2d-best offensive year of any cardinal shortstop in history --- only his 2003 season was better, unless i'm missing somebody. and he won a gold glove that year; how can you leave this guy off the team? and you know the answer:
  • ozzie 1987. you can't have two starting shortstops; it's either edgar or ozzie. smith never had a year as good as renteria's 2002, but his 1987 is arguably the best hitting season in franchise history by any non-renteria shortstop. his OPS that year (.775) is one that we'd kill to have out of our right-fielder in 2007. ozzie finished 2d in the mvp polling and won the gold glove (of course). i'll freely admit that this is not the best shortstop season available, but i don't care; you can't have an all-cardinal team of the last 25 years that doesn't include ozzie smith.
ok, so we're still looking for a right-fielder, a 2bman, and a catcher. click "read more" to see the rest of the team . . . . .

Star-divide

very quickly:

  • jordan 1996. there aren't many good right-field seasons to choose from, and i've already disqualified the best ones (most notably jd drew's 2001 season). george hendrick had a year similar to this one for the 1982 world titlists, but jordan had more power, better speed, and a better glove.
  • porter 1983. cards haven't had a good-hitting catcher since simmons.
  • delino deshields 1997. not so hot with the glove, but the guy could hit --- 51 extra-base hits and 55 steals. how on earth did he fail to score 100 runs?
that takes care of my 8 regulars. i'd line 'em up this way:
  1. deshields 2b: .295 / .357 / .448, 55 sb
  2. pujols lf: .359 / .439 / .667
  3. edmonds cf: .295 / .411 / .583, 129 runs
  4. mcgwire 1b: .299 / .470 / .752
  5. rolen 3b: .314 / .409 / .598
  6. jordan rf: .310 / .349 / .483, 104 rbi
  7. porter c: .262 / .363 / .431, 15 hr
  8. ozzie ss: .303 / .392 / .383, 43 sb
a lot of people would take edmonds' 2002 season, leaving 2000 open for j.d. drew in right field (.295 / .401 / .479); or they'd leave morris off the team, replace him with joe magrane or somebody, and put drew 2001 in right field; that would make sense if you only look at rate stats. but i think counting stats matter --- even in discredited categories such as wins. since morris '01 and edmonds '00 both represent significant counting-stat achievements, they're on my team.

let me quickly fill out the rest of the team. my fifth starter is

  • andujar 1982. since gibson, only 1 pitcher has thrown more innings than whacky jack's 268.2 in '82 (tudor threw 275 in '85). andujar's 2.47 era is the 4th-lowest post-gibson figure (bested by tudor, tewksbury, and joe magrane in 1988), and his adjusted era+ (147) was nearly as good as carpenter's in his cy young year (151). plus, he went 3-0 in the postseason, including a victory in the championship-clinching game.
now here's my bullpen, beginning with the closer:
  • sutter 1984. he threw 122.2 innings --- about twice what a modern-day closer throws, and three-fourths of the way to qualifying for the era title --- with a 1.54 era. plus 45 saves.
  • horton 1986. 2.24 era in 100+ innings.
  • perez 1993. he was better in 1992, but tewksbury's got that year; '93 will do (7-2, 2.48 era, 7 svs).
  • fossas 1995. gotta have someone from '95.
  • dayley 1989. not necessarily his best season, but the '89 team had no standouts; he'll serve.
  • terry 1991. subtract out his ibb's (14 of them !) and he had a 3:1 k/w ratio.
i'll admit it, beyond sutter that ain't much of a pen. but when your starting pitchers are gonna throw more than 1000 innings, and your closer is gonna throw 125, there aren't many innings left for the setup men. these guys are mostly just filler, but that's all they have to be.

finally, here's my bench:

  • oquendo 1988. not really a bench player --- he got over 500 plate appearances --- so i'm probably breaking the rules. but oquendo was the ultimate utility player that year. he didn't play more than 69 games at any one position but appeared at all 9 positions, even pitched 4 innings in a marathon game and should have become the first position player to earn a win since . . . . i don't know the hell who. he took the loss instead.
  • marrero 2002. 18 homers and a .778 ops --- can't do much better than this for a backup catcher. eli started 15 games behind the plate and appeared in 44 games there, caught over 10 percent of the cardinals' innings.
  • spiezio 2006. clutch player; unique season. best facial hair since hrabosky.
  • lankford 1990. came up for the last month and a half, hit .286 / .353 / .452.
  • dunston 1999. played everywhere on the diamond, put up nearly .800 ops in 150+ plate appearances.
  • perry 1994. never liked him, but he hit .325 / .435 / .532 in nearly 100 plate appearances.
if you made it to the end of this post, congratulations; i almost didn't make it, and i wrote the damn thing. feel free to edit my roster or construct your own . . . . above all, enjoy a day away from the nutty 2007 team.

0 recs | Comment 74 comments

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Great post
Here's a 26th-man question: which managerial year would you take to lead this bunch into the simulation wars?

by jfs on Apr 23, 2007 9:04 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

larussa '02
gets my vote. keeping the team together and going strong amidst all that happened that year was a real feat.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 10:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well
It'd have to be TLR 06....he did a hell of a lot with not much....banishing Marquis, promoting Reyes and Wainwright, demoting Looper and letting the kids do all the pitching out of the bullpen (which they did a remarkable job at), dealing with injuries to Izzy, Eck, Jed, managing the egos of Encarnacion and Rolen....

Plus he managed to navigate the Kenny Rogers Freakshow. I never in hell would have done what he did, but we got the ring so I guess it doesn't really matter.

TLR has a reputation for being unpredictable in-game, but there are certain tendencies he has that are observable over a month or a full season....he typically distrusts young players and favors the veterans, playing percentages and matchups, etc. I can't recall the exact moment when Tony pretty much just trashed the whole script and started managing by the seat of his pants, but it was beautiful to watch.

There's probably a Whitey season in there (obviously 82 would be a candidate) but I'm too young to remember much detail from the early 80s.

by nota bene on Apr 23, 2007 3:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yesterday's game...
looking at all of the card's homers from yesterday's game I have to say that I think they all go yard w/out the wind.  Especially Pujols and Rolen who hit their's to the back row of the bleachers.  Duncan's was hit to right and kinda on a line.  Edmond's might not have left the yard as it was a high-riser and only went about six rows deep, but he still made good-very hard contact.  

I missed the whole freakin game, but I was sure happy to peruse the box score afterwards.

You can view all the homers from the main website by clicking one of the media links towards the bottom of the page.

by cardzfanbub on Apr 23, 2007 9:36 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pujols HR was not to the back row of the bleachers
It was out of the park.   They replayed it 5 times on TV here in Chicagoland.

by sdrone on Apr 23, 2007 10:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thinking only about the lineup
I would rather throw Jordan or Edmonds into the second hold. Jordans speed in particular would make that attractive.

by JMedwick on Apr 23, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey lboros -
why didn't you like Gerald Perry?

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 23, 2007 10:23 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just not my type of hitter
undisciplined, and with no power ---- although he displayed both discipline and power in this particular season.

by lboros on Apr 23, 2007 10:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

his '93 was pretty good too -
.337 with .950 ops in 98 ab

We'd take that now off the bench, eh?

(he's the hitting coach for the Cubs now)

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 23, 2007 12:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing to do with
getting his ass kicked by Dave Duncan a couple of years ago, huh?

by chuckb on Apr 23, 2007 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rotation moves
According to the P-D

Kip Wells and Braden Looper are being bumped up due to the off-day.  That means the rotation will go:

Tues - Cincy - Wells
Wed - Cincy - Looper
Thurs - Cincy - Keisler
Fri - Cubs - Reyes
Sat - Cubs - Wainwright
Sun - Cubs - Wells
Mon - Brew - Looper
Tues - Brew - Keisler
Wed - Brew - Reyes
Offday

That sets up the rotation, if Carp isn't back by then for Wainwright, Wells and Looper to face off against Houston at home May 4-6.

Cards need to go 8-4 over these next 12 games and really make hay against the divisional teams ahead of them.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2007 10:33 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like using Keisler vs the Reds...
They have as much trouble with soft tossing lefties as we do.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 23, 2007 11:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm
I don't like that. Throwing Wainwright and Reyes again against the Cubs?

by JMedwick on Apr 23, 2007 4:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carpenter upday
Per the AP 'notes':

"Cardinals ace Chris Carpenter, placed on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to April 2 with persistent swelling in his right elbow, has been increasing his rehab work and has reported no problems. "He's been working every day," manager Tony La Russa said. "So far, no setbacks. He's starting to amp things up little by little.""

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2007 10:41 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp to begin interval throwing program Tuesday...
That's the true test.  He'll start soft tossing first.  Long tossing comes next.  Off the mound probably won't happen this week (maybe the weekend, but I think they'll be VERY conservative with his throwing program).

by silent_bob on Apr 23, 2007 11:06 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't go celebrating yet
Quote from John Perrotto at Baseball Prospectus:

"Though St. Louis right-hander Chris Carpenter will begin playing catch this week, there is still a strong suspicion among the Cardinals that he will need elbow surgery, which would likely sideline him until at least the All-Star break."

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6133

by chuckb on Apr 23, 2007 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gone for the year, promise.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Apr 23, 2007 10:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mike Perez
Wow, Mike Perez's 1992 and 1993 seasons were unbelievable.  That was in my dark period where I didn't follow the Cards too much (after I moved out of town and before Internet access).  If the Cards had done anything those years, he'd be revered in St. Louis.  

by raisin on Apr 23, 2007 10:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dunston?
I'd have gone with Willie McGee from 1999. Sure, he only hit .251, but it's Willie McGee-you gotta put him somewhere.

by matt reeder on Apr 23, 2007 10:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

random thoughts on the 25 yr. team
  1.  i'm impressed at the effort.
  2.  it seems like you made it harder on yourself by tying yourself to the player's stats from that year.  i didn't so much see that in the rules.  maybe it was understood.
  3.  i'm pretty sure that oquendo is not a cheating response in reality although perhaps in spirit.  i'd argue that he was the ultimate utility player, a term that is frequently used interchangably with bench.  however, the originator of the activity did indicate the bench player should be a "defensive replacement type." and oquendo certainly primarily started that year.  although, if we take into account my earlier thought about tying yourself to the year or not, oquendo's career was largely "bench player"...
  4.  if i were going to engage in this exercise, it'd have to be after the school year is out when i have the hours that you put in.

by sdesserman on Apr 23, 2007 11:16 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We did something like this...
to kill time one offseason.  We used all of major league baseball though.

One player picked per week, per team.  Once a man was off the board, he was gone forever.  You could pick any one of his years.

The team had to be made up of the standard positions you'd find on the team, and you had to take a player from each 5 year period starting in 1901.

Babe Ruth, of course, was the most popular player taken in the first round, but it was the team that nabbed Teddy Ballgame's 1941 campaign that won it all.  That line is just SO FAR superior to anything that was put up 1941-1945 that it made the difference.  

LOTS of good output from 1921-1930 to make up for whatever Babe year you wanted (1920, 1921, and 1927 all superior)

The other thing this little exercise did for us was to intimately familiarize ourselves with the greats of the game from the past.  Well worth doing if you've got a group of guys and an offseason to kill.

by tinstl on Apr 23, 2007 11:48 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looking ahead
Cardinals will face 6 RHP this week:

Harang (4.37)
Arroyo (3.25)
Lohse (1.91)
Marquis (1.88)
Miller (10.54)
Zambrano (7.77)

Hopefully the bats can stay hot.  A lot of decieving ERAs in there, a lot of good pitchers struggling, bad pitchers pitching over their heads and Wade Miller.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2007 12:15 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I read somewhere this morning
that Wade Miller will probably be skipped and we'll face Rich Hill instead.  Makes sense to me.

by chuckb on Apr 23, 2007 12:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup
they've been talking about it on the radio here and Miller has probably pitched his last game.  They've got some off days and can go with a 4 man rotation.  They're bringing up some relief pitcher named Rocky Cherry and will most likely send down Pie since they've got an absolute log jam in the outfield.

Anyway, they're saying the next time they need a 5th starter it will probably be Angel Guzman...who's not that good either.

by Big Red on Apr 23, 2007 6:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a matter of fact...
The Cubs have just placed Miller on the DL (back spasms....yeah right!) to make room for Cherry.

Also, Prior to have a scope performed on his elbow.

by Big Red on Apr 23, 2007 6:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aaron Harang gets my vote for the dude -
I'd least like to see peepin in my window after dark.

Brrrrrrrrr - he UGLY!

(attach favorite AH photo here)

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 23, 2007 12:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can we trade an entire farm team?
Because if we could trade Quad Cities for Miguel Cabrera that would be awesome.  I know, I know.. Rediculous thoughts.  But when I saw that Cabrera said this I couldn't help but dream;

"Pujols is the best. He is my hero.. If I were traded, I'd like to play with him in St. Louis.."

Combine that statement with the Marlin's issues with paying a guy more than 10 dollars an hour, and it's at least intriguing.. You'd have to lock him into a huge deal though..

Just imagine having Pujols and Cabrera for the next decade or so... Even if the rest of the team went to hell they'd make for entertaining baseball.  Don't get me wrong, I love Rolen at the hot corner, but Miggy is only 24 and kicks serious ass.

by CardinalFanatic on Apr 23, 2007 12:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just because
a player says he wants to play in a certain city doesn't mean he's serious.

by cardsrul on Apr 23, 2007 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

perhaps...
but it equally doesn't mean he's not.

by Timbo02 on Apr 23, 2007 1:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would
be so awesome if we got Cabrera.  I know it's a pipe dream, but I would be so happy.  One of the few guys I would move Reyes or Wainwright for, either one.  Because he's an everyday player and he's a stud.

by Toddius396 on Apr 23, 2007 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also..
I liked that he said he wouldn't want to play for the Yankees....

by CardinalFanatic on Apr 23, 2007 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That said..
He'll probably just hire scott boras and become a yankee or red sox at some point anyway..

by CardinalFanatic on Apr 23, 2007 1:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know it's not going to happen
but it's fun to think about Cabrera wearing the Birds on the Bat.

Nobody thought we were going to come up with McGwire either....Jocketty is a magician sometimes....

by nota bene on Apr 23, 2007 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can we trade an entire farm team?
He also continued on to say that it would be better if Pujols played for the Marlins, though.

stlfan

by stlfan on Apr 23, 2007 4:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

quote
can you put up al ink to the story where you got his quote?

by tainter on Apr 23, 2007 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Considering it takes
more effort to ask for a link then it does to find it in todays interwebs society...

Anyway, here ye be:

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 23, 2007 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Was it SI 2005 or 2006 that had Albert and Cabrera
pictured together in a preseason prediction issue? Anyway, the subject came up with Albert afterwards in an interview in the Post, as I recall, and Albert said he'd like to see Miguel in a Cardinal uniform.

Is Cabrera's free-agency year this year; is his deal up? We can dream, can't we?

A couple of other items, not necessarily on this thread.

Braden Looper has allowed runs in only three of his 26 IP (ran out of gas vs. NY in the sixth; first inning runs against Milwaukee (2) and Chicago (1). Let's hope he keeps using that little tailing sinker and getting a few cheap outs with it. And let's hope his arm doesn't fall off in, say, mid-June.

When was the last time St. Louis had TWO lefties throwing the way Flores and Johnson are right now? Wow.

Okay, this is my very first post; I'll quit now. Great board here, Larry, and the others make it even better.

by kwhiteside on Apr 23, 2007 8:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

comparing
lboros when comparing your team to the other guys cards team, i think yours is a bit better, mainly because of the addition of 1984 sutter, that was a monster season, and u have to wonder if the numbers would have been better if that team had been better, the only guy i wish could of somehow gotten on your roster was kile, but i really dont see any way of doing that, because it would mean making kile your 2000 guy, and would change the edmonds dynamic greatly, all in all, great effort, and if nothing else u showed how bad 1990-1995 was
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Apr 23, 2007 1:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Choice.
Tommy Herr 2B in 1985.  

The guy hit something like .302/8/110 which we would all love to have on the team these days at 2B.

DFA Juan Encarnacion!

by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 23, 2007 1:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you still
want to DFA Encarnacion?

by Toddius396 on Apr 23, 2007 3:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes.
Yes.
DFA Juan Encarnacion!

by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 23, 2007 6:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Herr
Herr hit .302 / .379 / .416 in 1985 with 49 XBH, 180 hits along with 31 SBs, 248 TB, 124 OPS+, and 80 BB.  

I'd venture to say DeShields and Herr have similar numbers in their given years (1985 and 1997) so either guy is acceptable to me.

DFA Juan Encarnacion!

by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 23, 2007 11:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, here's my 25 year roster:
C - Darrell Porter (1983)
1B - Mark McGwire (1998)
2B - Delino DeShields (1997)
3B - Fernando Tatis (1999)
SS - Ozzie Smith (1987)
LF - Albert Pujols (2003)
CF - Jim Edmonds (2004)
RF - Brian Jordan (1996)

BN - Dane Iorg (1982)
BN - Rex Hudler (1990)
BN - Chris Duncan (2006)
BN - Eli Marrero (2002)
BN - Gerald Perry (1993)

SP - John Tudor (1985)
SP - Bob Tewksbury (1992)
SP - Chris Carpenter (2005)
SP - Matt Morris (2001)
SP - Darryl Kile (2000)

CL - Bruce Sutter (1984)
RP - Ricky Horton (1986)
RP - John Costello (1988)
RP - Tony Fossas (1995)
RP - John Habyan (1994)
RP - Scott Terry (1991)
RP - Frank DiPino (1989)

by MarTeezy on Apr 23, 2007 2:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK
1983    Darrell Porter     c  7
1998    Mark McGwire     1B 4
1997    Delino DeShields2B 1
1999    Fernando Tatis  3B 6
1987    Ozzie Smith      SS 8
2003    Albert Pujols     LF 3
2002    Jim Edmonds     CF 5
2001    J.D. Drew     RF 2

1990    Ray Lankford     ut
1992    Geronimo Pena     ut
1993    Brian Jordan      ut
1994    Gerald Perry      ut
2004    John Mabry      ut

1982    Joaquin Andujar sp
1985    John Tudor      sp
1988    Joe Magrane     sp
2000    Rick Ankiel      sp
2005    Chris Carpenter sp

1984    Bruce Sutter     cl
1986    Ricky Horton      rp
1989    Frank DiPino       rp
1991    Scott Terry     rp
1995    Tony Fossas      rp
1996    Rick Honeycutt  rp
2006    Adam Wainwright rp

After all of this I have to say...man our Catchers can not hit...at all!!! The new curse is the curse of Simba.

by Harknights on Apr 23, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weava and Church
I wonder right now if weava is thinking man I hate boras..obviously whatever he learned fron Duncan is gone..well its only 3 starts i guess but he may not make it to 10 his neck is gonna hurt.

By the way someone posted that Ryan church was lifted for non injury reasons and hoped it was a trade..it was for not hustling per their website

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on Apr 23, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lboros' 25-man roster
So, I put those numbers into a whatifsports team...

The pitching has a combined 1700+ IP, 122-55 record, 68 saves, 1.09 WHIP, 2.41 ERA, .237 BAA, 5.8:1.9 K:BB, over 1100 Ks, and under 375 BB.

The hitting has a combined 281 HR, 1041 RBI, 179 SB (53 caught), over 1000 Ks, but over 800 BB, a .300 avg .388 OBP, and .513 SLG for an OPS of .901 - as a team!

Yeah, I'm a big dork...but so are you because you are here anyway and just read all that.

stlfan

by stlfan on Apr 23, 2007 4:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha
thats awesome

thats like a season when i play mvp 05 on my gamecube

by Jocephus on Apr 23, 2007 11:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AMAZING manny being manny quote
this is from bp's weekly list of quotes - duquette is talking about manny, obviously.

"I said, 'Manny, let me ask you something. I was just wondering why you get back in the batter's box after ball four.' He said, 'I don't keep track of the balls.' He said, 'I don't keep track of the strikes, either, until I got two.' Then he said, 'Duke, I'm up there looking for a pitch I can hit. If I don't get it, I wait for the umpire to tell me to go to first. Isn't that what you're paying me to do?'"
--Dan Duquette, former Red Sox GM.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 5:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The amazing thing is...
...I really don't think he's joking.

He's the proof that just because you're good at baseball doesn't mean you know anything about baseball. Can you imagine him as a coach?

Well what should we do skip? Skip??

Oh sorry I had my ipod on...umm...hit the ball???

We are in the field skip.

Ohhhh. Then turn you're ipod up. That's what I would do.

Manny is like the Leroy Jenkins of baseball.

by Harknights on Apr 23, 2007 6:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LEEEEEEROYYYY JENKINS!!!!!
Folks, we have a Leroy Jenkins sighting here at VEB!!!

by Big Red on Apr 23, 2007 7:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't look now
but the Cards are 7-4 on the road....

The 1-6 record at home isn't going to stay that way, methinks....here's to a sweep of Cincy.

by nota bene on Apr 23, 2007 7:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe Mather
A non-prospect prospect 2001 3rd rounder, 24 year old OF'er has started the year off at AA hitting .380 with 7 bombs for a nice little .380/.446/.880/1.326 line through 50 AB's.  Struck out only 5 times, walked 5 times.  I wouldn't get your hopes up though considering his career line of .249 .320 .423 .743 but who knows, Terry Evans was a total noboby and he's started out well again.
Pujols you alive??

by joker24 on Apr 23, 2007 7:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A 1480 OPS
for A-Rod.  Think the boos made him mad at the end of last season?

by jfs on Apr 23, 2007 9:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He likes hitting 50+ HRs for sub .500 teams
and that exactly what he is going to do.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2007 9:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

god their pitching is awful
they better hope phil hughes > matsuzaka, or they're going to be fighting for the wild card spot.

if you're roger clemens and looking at what's going on in houston and the boogiedown, don't you just put your feet up and crack open a(nother) tall frosty one?

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 10:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You say to Big George
I like the sound of 'Roger Clemens Stadium' located in the Bronx.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2007 10:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A-rod
tied AP
now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on Apr 23, 2007 10:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep
two HRs and they still lost to tampa bay
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 10:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

god i love BCB
when the cubs are losing.

i saw the 4-1 cubs lead and zambrano's pitch count and knew he wouldn't be in much longer, and that the cubs bullpen would blow the lead.

it's 4-4 and bcb posters have cursed out every relief pitcher, possibly including those who a) have not pitched in the game, b) are not and have never been cubs, c) do not exist.

they're just beside themselves at this point.

except mr. durden. he's giddy. he is also by far my favorite poster over there. fantastic work all around.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 10:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree
mr. durden is just sitting around laughing at all the cub fans who refuse to believe what he has to say. we should invite him over here.

by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 23, 2007 11:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i have never been to their site
but went to see what you meant. He is funny cause he is a cub fan, but some cards fans post that way...

I personally love buck mulligans siganture " i don't care about a world series just stay competitive through September" now thats acompromise for your team..ouch Im glad my parents werent Cub fans cause then i would have been

now not only a clever saying, but a team that plays in STL

by punchinjudy on Apr 23, 2007 11:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you have to give them credit though
over 700 posts on a monday night. they are dedicated to suckiness.
satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 23, 2007 11:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, but
that site averages about a 75% of the posts laced with "YOU F'N SUCK 'fill in name'", which is actually pretty par for the course if you've ever been to Wrigley.

Actually, it's not that bad if you're not in the bleachers, but yesterday there were two drunk asses sitting behind me whose vocabulary consisted of like 7 words each.  With extra emphasis on two beauties, "SUCK" and something that starts with "F".  

Classy, especially since right in front of me (two rows in front of them) was 3 kids ages 4 to 7.

by Big Red on Apr 24, 2007 12:09 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doesn't look like that to me
looks like major lamenting, a thousand prometheuses over there.
satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 24, 2007 12:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Their behavior is inexcusable
But if you take young kids to the Wrigley Bleachers especially when the Birds are in town you are either a bad parent or want to teach them some hard knocks real fast.
Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Apr 24, 2007 12:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You misunderstood
I was sitting behind home plate.

Hell, I won't even go into the bleachers.  Too old for that crap and I'm not even that old.

And as far as the F BOMB comment I made might have been a bit of an exageration.  Although I was mostly referencing the Friday game against the Cards when Wilson hit the 2 run homer.  It got ugly in there.

by Big Red on Apr 24, 2007 12:20 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thank god
if marquis had gotten the game-winning RBI as a pinch hitter, i think i might have put a hole in the wall with my head.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 23, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Team... No coke, no 'roids, lots of bling.

C Tom Pagnozzi, 1994... Gold glove D easily compensates for a 94 OPS.
1B Pujols, 2006... A should-have been MVP with gold glove D.  Take that Mark McGwire!
2B Ferando Vina,2001 another Gold Glove...
SS Ozzie, 1987, his best year
3B Rolen, 2004, easy pick
LF Edmonds, 2003, Can I do this?  I assume the OF spots are fungible?
CF McGee, 1985
RF Ray Lankford, 1997, Again I assume OFers can play any spot within reason.  This is my only non-GG

Pitchers...  Well Considering who is behind them, I really only need 5 Jeff Suppans, but lets take a shot anyway...

SP1 Chris Carpenter, 2005.
SP2 Juaquin Andujar, 1982.
SP3 Joe Magrane, 1989.
SP4 Bob Tewksbury, 1992.
SP5 John Tudor, 1990.

CL Bruce Sutter, 1984

Bench
C/OF Eli Marreo, 2002
IF/OF/C Jose Oquendo, 1988
IF/OF Shawn Dunston, 1999
OF Brian Jordan, 1993
1B/PH Will Clark, 2000 (168 ops+ filling in for Mac!)

RHP Jeff Lahti, 1983
LHP Rick Horton, 1986 (A Met killer... loved him!)
RHP Scott Terry, 1991
LHP Tony Fossas, 1995
RHP T.J. Mathews,  1996
RHP Curtis King, 1998  (Need someone not named McGwire from that year)

by Zubin on Apr 24, 2007 12:24 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Batting Order
*Fernando
#Willie
Albett
*Jimmy
Scotty
*Ray
Tom
#Ozzie

by Zubin on Apr 24, 2007 12:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

David Halberstam Dies in a Car Accident
I didn't see anyone else mentioning it, so I thought it might be under everybody's radar. I regret I have never read "October 1964", but I know it has been mentioned fondly on VeB, so I thought I would pass the sad news along. I'm link-challenged, but I saw it on cnn.com. I'm sure it's on all the news sites.
"Players like Pujols don't come along once in a lifetime. They never come along." -Buzz Bissinger

by PujolsFor President on Apr 24, 2007 2:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Roster...
I picked a lineup (didn't distinguish between OF positions), 5 SPs, a closer, 5 other RPs, a backup catcher, backup middle infielder, backup corner infielder, 2 backup outfielders, and a utility guy... so maybe slightly different.

Rotation....

1982 Andujar
1990 Tudor
1992 Tewksbury
2001 Morris
2005 Carpenter

Closer...

1984 Sutter

Lineup...

1985 McGee OF
1991 Ozzie SS
2003 Pujols OF
1998 McGwire 1B
2004 Rolen 3B
2002 Edmonds OF
1983 Herr 2B
1996 Pagnozzi C

Bullpen...

1986 Horton
1987 Dayley
1989 Dipino
1995 Fossas
1997 Frascatore

Bench....

1999 Castillo C
1994 Alicea MI
2000 W. Clark CI (I know he was a replacement more than a back-up, but still, great year)
1993 Perry OF
2006 Duncan OF
1988 Oquendo U/Secret Weapon

by The Nose on Apr 24, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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