Tejada to Handle
Piggybacking on AZ's Friday thread a little here - it's like everyone in the NL Central has asked Santa for relievers this Christmas and Santa has obliged, stuffing everyone's stocking w/ as many older relievers as possible. The latest is the Brew Crew's signing of Eric Gagne yesterday. Gagne may be receiving as much as $10 M for his 1 year contract. Yikes!
So, for the record, the Brewers have added 4 relievers now (Gagne, Solomon Torres, David Riske and Guillermo Mota), the Astros - 3 (Geoff Geary, Doug Brocail, Oscar Villareal) and are still looking for a closer, the Reds gave 32 year old Francisco Cordero a 4 year/$46 M contract, and the Cubs have re-signed Kerry Wood. The Cubs, unless they intend to make Wood their closer, will hope that Santa fills their stocking with one in the next month or so. That brings the total reliever acquisitions in the NL Central this offseason to 9 (counting Wood) with at least 1 and maybe 2 left. Only Villareal is under 30 and Doug Brocail is (gulp!) 40. Ed Wade gave him 1 year + an option and $2.5 M to suck. Yes, I know he was decent last year but he was also in San Diego. Refer once again to AZ's Friday thread. If there's one thing the Cards have done fairly well in recent years it's been in finding pretty decent relief help w/o spending a ton of money - the exception being the awful Braden Looper contract that the Cards will finally escape at the end of the season - and he didn't really become worth his contract until Tony and Duncan stuck him in the rotation and he became a tolerable 4th or 5th starter.
On to the main topic, in the last few days there have been whispers from the Cards' organization that it is in the market for a hitter - someone who can contribute, significantly, to the Cards' lineup. It's been kind of overshadowed by the interminable soap opera that is the feud between Rolen and LaRussa but it's been there nonetheless. Additionally, somewhere - and forgive me, for the life of me I can't find the quote - Mozeliak mentioned that the acquisition of Izturis didn't necessarily mean that he would be the starting SS. According to Mo, it might free up Ryan to be traded. Setting aside the notion that Brendan Ryan has a ton of trade value at this point, to me this sends the message that the Cards plan to make a run at Miguel Tejada. Tuesday, in fact, Strauss mentioned that the Cards had discussed Tejada with the O's .
Tejada presently has a lot of warts - he has 2 years and $26 M left on his contract (not that bad, really, by present standards), he'll be 32 next year, he missed 29 games due to a broken wrist last year after not missing more than 3 in a season since 1998, a drop of 78 pts. of OPS from 2006, and the concern about the possibility of his name being mentioned in the Mitchell investigation. Importantly, if the Cards' major problem the last few years has been that they are aging, prone to injury, and in the decline phase of their careers, Tejada does nothing to reverse that trend. If the Cards are playing for 2009 and later, does Tejada do a lot to improve the Cards' chances when he's 34?
He is interesting, however. Broken wrists happen and aren't necessarily a prophecy of future injury problems. Even in a down year last year he was 9th among shortstops in VORP and 10th in RC/27. Bill James has him at .301/.359/.479 which would have put him tied for 6th in OPS among shortstops last year. The ZIPS projections for the O's haven't come out yet. There's no reason to think that Tejada can't be a solid middle of the order hitter for the Cards for 2 years. He's not the Tejada of old (wonder what the Mitchell investigation has to say about that) but he'd still be, sadly, the 2nd or 3rd best hitter in the Cards' lineup.
The other interesting thing about a potential Tejada acquisition is that the O's have already discussed moving him to 3B to better deal with his decreasing range at SS. Defensively, BP had him at -15 FRAA and a Rate of 88. According to PBR, Tejada was also below average last year w/ a predicted outs/actual outs ratio of 97.20 - about 3% below average. Because the defensive metrics are rarely unanimous about a player, THT actually had him as an above-average SS for '07 w/ a RZR of .830 - 7th among all shortstops and 2nd in the AL. Still, the O's plan to move him to 3B and many others who've discussed trading for him (Angels in particular) have talked of moving him to 3B.
The point is, however, that trading for Tejada would give the Cards some flexibility vis-à-vis the Rolen situation. If the Cards are able to trade Rolen, Tejada slides over to 3B and Izturis becomes the SS. If not, Tejada could play SS next to Rolen. Tejada's decreasing range becomes less important being flanked by Rolen, who is still a very good defensive 3B.
There's been talk of the Angels, Giants, and Astros being interested in Tejada this offseason. In fact, there were rumors at one time that a deal w/ the Astros was very close to being done - Tejada for Chris Burke, Adam Everett, and a top prospect. I never bought it as Burke and Everett don't have a ton of value and the Astros' farm system is one of the worst in baseball. Even if Troy Patton was the prospect, I don't think that's enough for Tejada. So what would it cost the Cards?
Well, Mo intimated that Ryan might be involved. If they do plan to move Tejada to 3B if he stays, they have no natural replacement at SS. They're going to need one. I doubt that Ryan has a ton of value but he is cost-controlled for 6 years - that gives him a leg up over Everett. It makes sense to think they might be interested in Reyes - a young pitcher with some upside who would be under the team's control for 5 years. Would they have interest in Bryan Anderson? Questionable at best. They're talking of trading Ramon Hernandez but their top prospect, Matt Wieters, is a C and is one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He should be ready by '09 - about Anderson's time frame.
Rasmus would be off-limits, of course. Rasmus is better than Tejada straight-up. Jaime Garcia's coming off arm surgery and I doubt the O's are very confident in him right now. Chris Perez is a possibility, as is Adam Ottavino. What about Chris Duncan? There's little doubt that the O's could find a spot for Duncan and they'd have him for 5 years. Duncan, Reyes, and Ryan sounds like an awful lot, to me, though. Does Tejada give the Cards that much more of a shot to win the NL in the next 2 years to justify giving up 5 years of Duncan, 5 years of Reyes, and 6 years of Ryan? Not to me. The Cards just aren't that close.
Doesn't taking on the $26 M still owed to Tejada also make it more difficult to swallow some of Rolen's contract in a trade? The Cards' payroll is already at $100 M; Tejada adds $13 in '08 and the Cards still have to add a pitcher or 2. It seems to me that ownership might be more apt to pay Rolen to go away if the payroll is lower than if it's already over $100 M. Maybe I've got it backwards; maybe they'll eat some to keep from swallowing it all but I tend to think it's more likely the reverse. Trading Duncan for Tejada may be more palatable if the team can trade Rolen for a young pitcher. The Catch-22 is that trading Duncan for Tejada makes it more necessary to trade Rolen but probably also less likely.
The O's won't be interested in Rolen - it's an extra year on the contract and he's a year older. The O's need to get younger also and Rolen offers them nothing. If we're going to trade Duncan, I'd much rather see him traded for someone 8-9 years younger than Tejada - either a SP or a SS. Tejada's contract is better than Rolen's to us in that it has 1 less year on it and, IMO, he's more likely to play 280 games over the next 2 years than Rolen is. While he wouldn't be as productive defensively, he should be more productive offensively but it seems the only real value in trading for Tejada is predicated on also trading Rolen. Now, I do think Rolen will be traded - too many bridges have been burned; it's just a matter of what the Cards will receive in the end.
The problem here is the cost of Tejada - Duncan's probably as good a hitter as Tejada is right now and he has 5 more seasons w/ the Cards, as opposed to Tejada's 2. Unless we can package Ottavino (as I'd prefer not to trade Perez) w/ Reyes and Ryan, I'm not sure we have the players to get him. Would they take Ankiel in place of Duncan? That may be something to consider. Even so, it doesn't solve the Cards' biggest problem - too many older players. It's, at best, a band-aid and, at worst, an omen that the talk of an emphasis on player development is just that - talk.
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I really don't know what to think
I'd rather see us trade Duncan for Tejada than Ankiel, simply because I think that Ankiel is a better player than Duncan. However, the intrigue of sending a player linked to HGH (Ankiel) to a team for a player with 'roid whispers of his own (Tejada) can't be missed. I'd probably rather have Ankiel than Tejada even. That could just be the man crush talking, though.
I think I'd like to see us trade for Tejada, but not at any of the costs you've listed. He's just not good enough to warrant sending three players, one of which is major-league tested. And no, I don't know what I would offer to get him, since my knowledge of the minors is lacking.
by Mr Redbird on Dec 9, 2007 1:57 AM EST 0 recs
There is no solution for the biggest problem...
Reyes is never going to be an effective major league pitcher in St. Louis. Period. He has to be moved. (Ottavino, too, probably).
Duncan can hit, but only righties. And most defensive metrics agree he's pretty bad. I like Duncan, but he could probably be replaced by Ludwick playing most of the time without too much of a loss.
Ryan was in Tony's doghouse pretty deep last year, and history shows players rarely get out of there. Whatever Mo might have said, they didn't spend $3 million on Izturis to be a utility infielder. I think it's entirely possible Ryan doesn't even make the team out of spring training.
Yes, they need pitching, so his contract hurts that - but at the same time, I don't think there's much available that would be worth that money. Maybe the Japanese pitcher, whose name I forget, but you never know what you get from over there , and the Cardinals apparently aren't interested.
The only way they are going to get good starting pitching is to develop it themselves. And since they are unwilling to pay for over the slot guys like Porcello, it's going to take a lot of skill and not a little luck in drafting. And a lot of patience, because a lot of those kids are going to struggle when they come up. Fans and management don't seem to be willing to give pitchers much in the way of growing pains..
by DiscoJer on Dec 9, 2007 2:17 AM EST 0 recs
Duncan, Ryan and Reyes
Maybe they toss Daniel Cabrera back also. Two "change of scenery" pitchers?
I agree that acquiring Tejada probably has to be followed shortyl by shipping out Rolen.
Hmmm...wouldn't be alot easier if the Angels would just send us Wood and Santana for Rolen, Duncan and cash?
by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 9, 2007 2:29 AM EST 0 recs
We could hope
I definitely don't think Tejada is injury prone. The injury last year would've happened to a player at any age. If anything, I think he might be some stability that we need in our line-up.
I would be in favor of a trade for Tejada if we can somehow avoid dealing Duncan. Maybe another young pitcher? The O's need pitching -- we all know that. A deal like Reyes, Ryan, and bullpen pitching might be something they'd take. Or we could somehow manage to work Looper into the deal and that would take off a chunk of money.
I have no idea, but I feel like we could work around Duncan.
by aet15 on Dec 9, 2007 3:41 AM EST 0 recs
Rolen - Tejada
There is no answer. Openly feuding with a manager would get a player traded automatically. Sadly, who would take on this huge liability?
Therefore, it is very unlikely Tejada is bird bound.
He just is too old and not worth taking the risk.
On the other hand, I do think a team like the Angels would assume Rolens' contract and offer a draft pick or a token thus freeing up a slot for Tejada.
However, the chances of this happening are extremely speculative.
Have a nice year!
by GoHalos on Dec 9, 2007 5:08 AM EST 0 recs
I thought
by RedbirdRay on
Dec 9, 2007 11:18 AM EST
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I might be off on this
by stl tyler on
Dec 9, 2007 8:44 PM EST
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Positive that's wrong
It wouldn't work under the current CBA for a few reasons, too. The obvious scenario is one in which a team trades their next first-round pick for some player that helps them finish in the top half of MLB. Then they sign a Type A FA in the offseason and lose their first rounder to his former team. Two teams can't have the same pick, obviously, so to avoid that situation, you'd need to either bar teams from signing certain types of free agents if they trade certain picks (very unfair) or you'd have to do away with FA compensation (very unfair).
by liam on
Dec 9, 2007 10:21 PM EST
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yes that's too much H-Town
its also something Walt would have done & not given it a second thought. like you said, those days are behind us.
supposedly.
i would have no problem with having both tejada & scotty on the team for 08. and honestly if the Cards did get tejada, why wouldn't then keep him? if scotty's as healthy as they say he is, they'd have the best 3,4,5 hitters in the division. why wouldnt they want that?
also you almost have to expect that a change of scenery would do wonders for tejada. going from the cellar dwelling O's, to the (supposedly) contending Cards. i think he'd have a great year, maybe even a career year hitting behind Albert & in from of scotty every day.
his addition would also take pressure off of scotty to be THE GUY that protects Albert, when probably he's not that guy any more.
so i say do it. go get tejada, dont give up DUNK or Rick. keep scotty & see what Albert, Tejada, & a "healthy" Rolen could do in the middle of the line up. damn the money Dewitt. you can't take it with you when you die. might as well enjoy it while you still can.
right?
by gdm426 on Dec 9, 2007 7:07 AM EST 0 recs
Not Mo's MO
by Zubin on Dec 9, 2007 8:21 AM EST 0 recs
What about Bedard?
by GhostofJimLinderman on
Dec 9, 2007 8:25 AM EST
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What about Bedard?
by GhostofJimLinderman on
Dec 9, 2007 8:26 AM EST
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and not much pop in his bat.
by Zubin on
Dec 9, 2007 9:13 AM EST
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Lindy
by flynn on
Dec 9, 2007 9:06 PM EST
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I hear this Manny Aybar guy
by Valatan on
Dec 9, 2007 9:43 PM EST
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To be fair,
by Valatan on
Dec 9, 2007 9:43 PM EST
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Great Post - Please No!!!
One caveat is that if Rolen was traded without more than say $9M in salary eaten in total, it may make sense to pick up Tejada. He would be another RH balancing bat and is said to be a great locker room guy.
The real dillema is that Angelos is involved. I think the max the Cards would give up is a Reyes plus pick a #2-#5 prospect package, while that likely wouldn't be enough for the Os. On the other hand, if I were the Os I'd jump at Reyes + Garcia + Ankiel. If I were the Cards I just don't think I'd do it...
Anyhow, interesting post, here's hoping Reyes remains with the Cards....
by Lawless on Dec 9, 2007 8:31 AM EST 0 recs
I can see Tejada ending up in LA....
by jillsinmo on
Dec 9, 2007 10:56 AM EST
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I think you are right
by the Tewk on
Dec 9, 2007 8:59 PM EST
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no tejada for me
the p-d is also talking bedard for rasmus, anderson, perez and maybe more. hasn't bedard been on the dl for like half of his career, minors/majors. i mean, he's got great stuff obviously but if they do this i may revolt.
by erik on Dec 9, 2007 9:50 AM EST 0 recs
Rasmus/Bedard
by GhostofJimLinderman on
Dec 9, 2007 11:04 AM EST
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I was thinking the same thing...
Bedard and Tejada
for
Rasmus and Reyes
I don't know if I like it necessarily, but if we would have to give up Rasmus, and Reyes isn't going to play well here anyway, then why not get both.
That would give the Cardinals a lineup looking something like this:
Ankiel RF
Duncan LF
Pujols 1B
Tejada SS
Edmonds CF
Rolen 3B
Molina C
Pitcher
Kennedy 2B
I'd have to say that if Rolen and Tejada are healthy, then our top 6 guys have 20 HR potential. Ludwick on the bench gives us a 7th with the potential.
That would be nice to see after this past season. Of course, it would be nice to see IF everyone is healthy. It could turn out to look much like last year's end of the season lineup if we have 20+ injuries to the starting day 25-man roster again...but that would be the same for every team.
stlfan
by stlfan on
Dec 9, 2007 11:25 AM EST
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heart skipped a beat
forgive the exaggeration (because this is a big one) but it's hard for me to justify giving up what could be a bernie williams, jorge posada and rivera (ok, maybe wetteland, ok even keith foulke) combo for a chris carpenter.
it just seems like a lot to give up, especially when it's a centerfielder (premium position) and a good hitting catcher. and we'll have to pay bedard a lot and soon.
by birdsonthebat on
Dec 9, 2007 11:36 AM EST
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Me, too
The Cards would likely be outbid and we will have traded 6 years of Rasmus, 6 years of Anderson, 6 years of Perez and others for 2 years of Bedard. This trade would end up making the Mulder trade appear to be Walt's stroke of genius.
by houstoncardinal on
Dec 9, 2007 12:55 PM EST
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We do NOT have to trade...
Yes, the Cardinals want to trade Rolen because he's become a huge pain in the kiester. Yes they want to trade Reyes b/c Tony/Dunc don't think he's their kind of pitcher.
But neither of those are good enough reasons to accept a bad trade. We don't have to make a bad trade. I don't care how many media 'experts' say that the Cardinals "have" to trade X player and they "have" to lower their expectations to do it. The hell we do. Rolen's value is never going to be lower, IMO. And the same goes for Reyes. You don't sell low and buy high...which is exactly what these morons are insisting that the Cardinals do.
We don't have to. We shouldn't. Tell Rolen to suck it up and go play. Reyes already will. It's as simple as that. D.GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Dec 9, 2007 11:42 AM EST 0 recs
I'm with you, too
Yes, I would love for us to somehow add a reliable starting pitcher, but (silly me) MY # 1 concern right now is the prospect of having Adam Kennedy at 2b. I just don't trust him anymore.
It's one of the few distempers I have re. Cardinal management philosophy... that they treat second base as the step-child position. {I moaned for weeks after we let Grudz go, over a few measly million dollars.}
But mostly, I still have five reasons to be optimistic: the Cubs, Astros, Brewers, Reds and Pirates.
by the Tewk on
Dec 9, 2007 9:13 PM EST
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If anything happens
Depending on how many names are on there, Rolen's trade value may go up if he's clean.
by SoffTosser on Dec 9, 2007 11:42 AM EST 0 recs
I don't know if anyone in baseball
By the way, Milton Bradley just signed with Texas for $5mil plus incentives. Damn....
by jillsinmo on
Dec 9, 2007 11:48 AM EST
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I don't care
by houstoncardinal on
Dec 9, 2007 12:56 PM EST
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Perhaps I should amend that to say most in
by jillsinmo on
Dec 9, 2007 1:06 PM EST
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Bradley Signing
by Elvis on
Dec 9, 2007 1:20 PM EST
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Jaime Garcia
As for Reyes, the Philadelphia Inquirer reports this morning that the Phillies retain interest in him and have recently discussed a trade with the Cardinals, but that the Cardinals are asking too much--no specifics provided. If this is true, it appears that the Cardinals are not eager to give Reyes away, despite his abysmal season. To the contrary, they may be overrating him!
by MikeG on Dec 9, 2007 12:34 PM EST 0 recs
you are correct
by azruavatar on
Dec 9, 2007 1:28 PM EST
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rest is the cure?
by jjray on
Dec 9, 2007 2:23 PM EST
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Mo's interview...
I'm glad to hear that the Cardinals are asking for "too much" for Reyes. That says to me that they are valuing him correctly (i.e. discounting his fluky 2007 season characterized by a distorted win/loss record, a fairly bad BABIP, and an extreme luck factor with men on base). Good. I'd much rather see Reyes and Rolen start 08 with the Cards than watch them walk for nothing in return.
This team NEEDS starting pitching. This team NEEDS superior defense. This team NEEDS right-handed power. Why trade Reyes and Rolen when those players have the potential to fill those needs and we have to do NOTHING to see it happen. D.GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Dec 9, 2007 12:43 PM EST 0 recs
You make sense
by Elvis on
Dec 9, 2007 3:38 PM EST
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swap
by sportsman on
Dec 9, 2007 4:32 PM EST
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tejada's wrist
by willievinceterry on Dec 9, 2007 1:39 PM EST 0 recs
Wrist
by ICbirdfan on
Dec 9, 2007 2:28 PM EST
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my boy ludwick as well
by SleepyCA on
Dec 9, 2007 2:45 PM EST
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maybe i am missing something...
by nomar34 on
Dec 9, 2007 2:42 PM EST
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Roger Maris
by Hardcore Legend on
Dec 9, 2007 3:54 PM EST
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a statistical oddity
BUT... he defensive "line" for 1999 lists him as "starting" ONE game at 3b... but... with zero innings or fielding chances.
I wonder what happened there?
Only think I can figure is that it was a road game and he hurt himself somehow batting in the top of the 1st... and thus could not take the field, but was, technically, the starting 3b for the game.
by the Tewk on
Dec 9, 2007 9:26 PM EST
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I would love to see us land Bedard
The funny thing about trades is that sometimes they work out wonderfully and sometimes they come back to haunt you.
by Ghost on Dec 9, 2007 3:24 PM EST 0 recs
problem is if
by cm1000 on Dec 9, 2007 7:51 PM EST 0 recs
it could be worse...
by punchinjudy on Dec 9, 2007 8:15 PM EST 0 recs
"the cardinals biggest problem"
I would argue that the cardinals biggest problem is too many bad pitchers. Mo is doing a pretty good job of eliminating the old folks:
So far Mo has gotten rid of (2008 ages) bennett (36), Stinnett (38), Taguchi (38), percival (38), Wells (31), Wilson (33), Cairo (32) and Eckstein (33). Maybe miles (31) and Rolen (33).
After this year, Edmonds (38), Encarnacion (32), Looper (33) and Springer (39) will probably be gone, and kennedy (32), Spezio (35), and Franklin (36) will likely be gone after '09. By the '10 season, the ony guys over 30 on our team will be Carpenter, Rolen and Ludwick (31), unless they resign someone or add someone in trade. Of course pujols, ankiel, and schumaker will turn 30 in 2010.
by SleepyCA on Dec 9, 2007 10:44 PM EST 0 recs
mo's timetable
by sportsman on
Dec 9, 2007 10:49 PM EST
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Wait until he adds more players
by DiscoJer on
Dec 10, 2007 2:53 AM EST
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eh?
Taguchi (38) - barton (27) = 11
bennett (36) - LaRue (34) = 2
Eckstein (33) - Iz2 (28) = 5
So that is a total of 18 man-years younger by swapping out 3 players. Obviously the goal is to get better, not younger, but he seems to be accomplishing at least the younger part...
by SleepyCA on
Dec 10, 2007 3:18 AM EST
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I'd take Tejada
by JI on Dec 10, 2007 12:29 AM EST 0 recs
That is to say
by JI on
Dec 10, 2007 12:32 AM EST
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Youth Movement
by GhostofJimLinderman on Dec 10, 2007 7:59 AM EST 0 recs
I'll take the-rapist for 300 Alex.
Either way the best we can hope for is that Rasmus is called up by all star break next year and turns out to be great, Carp and Mulder come back strong, and we capture lightning in a bottle so to speak. And there is no R in Lindeman you are correct sir I am an ignoramus?
by GhostofJimLinderman on
Dec 10, 2007 3:30 PM EST
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