Rasmus no longer Untouchable

...however much anybody likes Rasmus as a prospect, he's not the only prospect for centerfield. (Barton and Ankiel come to mind.)

The first guy any team will ask for in a deal is Rasmus; doesn't mean the Cards are obligated to include him.

Rasmus.  He's a great pitcher and I'd love to have him but not for one of the 5 best players in baseball under the age of 24.

bedard is a proven major league stud pitcher who wins on a VERY bad team
rasmus hasnt proven a thing yet and could be a bust

if they would make this straight up id do it now
if it were rasmus and reyes id do it in a second, and if i had to i would throw in a ottavino

hasnt anyone noticed the value of borderline major league pitchers???
if this guy goes to a good team his value might explode, he is already a top five pitcher in ALL of baseball

13-5 on a VERY BAD orioles team that went 69-93
15-11 the previous year
221 Ks last season
3.16 ERA in the American League????  The American League east no less....

i know we love our cardinals, but we think our prospects are a lot better than other people do

i wouldnt write off Mo just yet, the best thing he has done is not sign a overpriced free agent
theres just not that much there and we dont have that much to give

also the other day (I think it was a suggestion by Strauss, not something from the front office) about taking away the "untouchable" label to gauge Rasmus's value. It doesn't mean they have any intention of trading him.

Even if a marginal one.  Bedard is probably worth 3 to 5 wins over the Randy Kiesler clone that will be in the rotation instead of him, and Tejada is probably close to being worth that much over Cesar Izturis.  Both are under team control for two years, so they aren't just a one year patch.

If Bedard can get signed to an extension, it makes the team younger and better, and is a long term solution, more along the lines of the Edmonds and Rentería trades than a stopgap.  

Rasmus, Anderson, Perez might be too much to give up, but we never know until we see the actual deal.  If Eric Bedard is on the table, you at least have to talk.  And maybe the point is to say that he's not untouchable to start negotiations along a bait 'n swtich style of talking--rasmus is 'on the table' in order to start a conversation, but just in the abstract.
 

trading Rasmus for Bedard is if Bedard is signed to a long-term extension.  Bedard is a legit top of the rotation starter but trading 6 years of Rasmus, plus others, for 2 years of Bedard would be a colossal mistake. If you could trade 6 years of Rasmus, plus others, for say 7-9 years of Bedard -- that's a different story but I would doubt that the Cards would get any guarantees of re-signing Bedard.

It's also important to note that, with Pujols signed through '10 and an option for '11, w/ Rolen signed through '10, and Carp signed through '11, it may be very difficult to pay Bedard the $17-18 M he'll be worth when he becomes a free agent in 2010.  Perhaps the contract could be structured in such a manner so that he is affordable for the 1st 2 years, but the Cards will also be trying to extend Pujols at the same time as the Bedard contract would escalate.  

I'm hoping we get outbid and can hang onto Rasmus and the rest.

he will cost the Cardinals atleast $15 M per when he becomes a FA in 2010.

Bedard is good but if you are going to trade Rasmus for a starter, make it Haren or Lincecum or a player you might actually get value out of before they fly the nest.

Rasmus is a 20 year old who not only held his own at Double AA but crushed opposition that was several years older than him. I'm so tired of hearing "he's a prospect; what's his major league line look like?" because it's so patently false. If we only used veteran players we'd have to have a payroll like the Yankees and even they have seen the value in saving young talent. Rasmus is an excellent young talent.

Bedard isn't that young, missed time with injuries last year and is already in his arbitrartion years. Haven't we learned our lesson with Mark Mulder and Chris Carpenter people? Pitchers are dramatically more fragile than athletic, young centerfielders. To top it all off, this trade wouldn't be Rasmus for Bedard, it would almost certainly be Rasmus plus pitching prospects for Bedard.

why you would be worried that they said they could trade Ramsus. Mo also said in that article that he thought Rasmus plus another prospect for Cabrera was a little much. so he does value Rasmus very high.

I'll ask this.

Rasmus, Perez and Anderson for Tejada and Bedard.

Would you do that?

(I really do not know what I would say)

This hypothetical deal hinges on two things: who is included in the package on both sides, and Bedard's resignability.  

If it's a Rasmus ++ for Bedard by himself, this is a horrible deal.  But if Baltimore kicks in another guy, its better for the BOB.

If Bedard has two good years or one or whatever he has left and gets out of Dodge, then the Cardinals got burned big time.  But if he's resigned there is every reason to believe he'll be an effective starter for another 5 years at least.  The guy is only 28, so the Cards would have a tremendously talented lefty in the prime of his career.  

There are very few players that are good enough to justify giving up Grady Sizemore II, and Bedard is one of them as long as it's part of a package.  This is probably all academic though, because I still have a hard time seeing this hypothetical deal go through.

Trading Rasmus isn't a bad idea as long as Mo' gets equal or better value.  i.e. if he can come up with a young stud middle infielder or a couple of legit OFers it is a good deal.  If he gets a SP with 2 years left before FA (2 year in which we are rebuilding), it isn't.  

There is no question Bedard had a great year last season - but no one seems to be questioning whether he is likely to continue that type of production.  His K/9,WHIP, and opp avg last year were substantially out of line with the two preceding years (K/9: 10.9 vs. ~7.9, WHIP: 1.09 vs. ~1.35, AVG: .212 vs. ~.260).  If he was 25-26 years-old, I would buy the argument that he is progressing & last year represents his new level.  But as others have pointed out, he isn't that young, so I wouldn't discount the possibility that he is likely to regress to his average performance a little.  While that average performance is still pretty good (and likely to be better out of the AL east), it doesn't really strike me as dominant ace material.  Looking at it that way, I find it VERY hard to trade a prospect who is universally highly regarded (not just by us, I don't think) for a pitcher with those kind of numbers.

I think people are a little too worried.  Mo is not stupid, and any player is tradeable.  I think Mo has an idea of what package he would want for various groups of players.  I would just take it as talk, and I think a good GM talks to every team about any player on the 40 man roster or any player in the minor league system.  This is what GM's do, you must realize every single day of the year there are GM's bouncing possible trades and what not off each other.  I don't think it's new to say Rasmus is tradeable.  It's not that big of a deal.  Hell Albert Pujols is tradeable for the right package.

Let's not get all out panties in a bundle over this non news.

... remember the last time we gave up the farm for a dominant AL lefty with some question marks?

once bitten, twice shy.

i'd like the Cards to continue with the youth movement, even if dealing Rasmus would make the team competitive next year.

Tejada. If I was giving up Rasmus, Anderson, Perez and possibly Garcia. I would want Bedard and Brian Roberts. At 3 million a year Kennedy can sit on the bench.

I would rather see what kind of young starter we can come up with.  I always prefer to get pitchers who pitch in hitters parks. Some younger guy like a Brandon McCarthy, John Lester, Ian Snell, or one of the Yankees young guys.  Maybe if we have to trade Reyes we can at least get back somebody else's Reyes and not some albatross.

for everyone to ruminate on: Peter Angelos.

colby is very good, and while i do not want him to be traded, whether for bedard or pretty much anything else, i would never "swear off the cardinals"

i mean, how good of a fan are you really if ANYTHING could make you swear off of your team?