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Let them have Miggy...

Groat_tiny by Red Blazer on

I know you all want him so why do we say we can't get him? Miguel Cabrera is the right handed hitter we need. Also he plays third base. Convenient considering Rolen is being run out of here on rails. Deservedly so considering his attitude towards Tony. But apparently Mo the Muddy is going after Cabrera. I'm all for it and you know this. If Rasmus must be dealt then there is no other player I would want back other than Miggy. Santana cost money and prospects. We would have a one two punch that would rival Bostons' Big Pappi and Manny. We all saw what they did in the playoffs. If they were not in that line-up Boston would have flopped. I don't care how hard Ellsbury played or how scrappy and selfless Pedroia was or how money Lowell appeared to be without the meat of that line-up they would have sucked. Players Like Manny, Pappi, El Hombre, & Cabrera elvevate the play of others. Get Miggy now. He is a once in a lifetime chance. Ankiel can handle Cf and if not him then Schumie. We can work on pitching over the course of the year.

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who would we trade for them?
has there been any interest in some sort of miggy for ptbnl on florida's side?
get up, baby!

by willess on Dec 3, 2007 10:18 PM EST   0 recs

really?
This goes against every move we've made all season. I obviously, and foolishly am getting my hopes because I know Luhnow and DeWitt want to build a deep farm system. apparently it would take 4 prospects or "the right three". Rasmus, Anderson, Perez and Reyes?

and I was just buying into the idea of sacrificing a couple of years to build a sturdy farm system.

I cannot stand being a fanatical for an egregiously average team. I am giving a two year grace period before we break up.

by stlknows on Dec 3, 2007 10:22 PM EST   0 recs

Ellsbury
is the centerpiece of a deal for Santana the best pitcher in the game. wouldn't a package around Rasmus be able to get us Miggy? Is Rasmus rated higher than Ellsbury? I know he's not ready to be inserted into the opening day lineup but still...
I cannot stand being a fanatical for an egregiously average team. I am giving a two year grace period before we break up.

by stlknows on Dec 3, 2007 10:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Sox/Twins
That trade is some combination of Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Coco Crisp, and Dustin Pedroia.  Its not just Ellsbury, its a pretty solid left handed pitcher, a decent centerfielder, and the Rookie of the Year for one player.  The Sox can afford to trade away their better prospects because they have a better farm system than the BOB.  That deal will hurt, but they'll also be able to resign too, and Ellsbury and Pedroia will be replaced in time.  

We don't have the horses for that kind of deal for Cabrera.  It would probably take a mix of Duncan, Wainwright, Anderson, Perez, and Rasmus, and almost certainly would include Rasmus, a prospect who is irreplaceable in the Cards system.  The Cardinals also will have no shot at resigning Cabrera, considering he'll probably command between 20-25 million per season.  Eventually the BOB is going to have to resign Pujols, and if they're on the hook for Cabrera they won't be able to.  Yeah he can hit, but this would be a two-year rental that would gut the top of the Cardinals farm system, something that took several years to even make respectable.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 3, 2007 10:36 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I disagree..
Mo says there are no budget constraints and we all no they said they will spend cash/prospects for the right player. If Miggy isn't the right player then tell me who is...
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:09 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

pedroia
I have not heard his name mentioned once in trades for Santana. I feel like people are looking for excuses to not get top talent on this team.
I cannot stand being a fanatical for an egregiously average team. I am giving a two year grace period before we break up.

by stlknows on Dec 4, 2007 12:16 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

no way
i wouldnt want cabrera either. his weight really is going to be a problem in a little while. and with albert and carp do we really have the money to sign him long term and still have decent players at other positions? dewitt would have the raise the cap by quite a bit and i can't see him doing that.
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Dec 3, 2007 10:28 PM EST   0 recs

Your wrong and stlknws is right...
You get Miggy if you can and let Rasmus develop somewhere else. If we can get Miggy without trading Rasmus we need to build a bronze statue outside of Busch III in tribute of Mo.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 3, 2007 10:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I Wouldn't Want Cabrera
Is the wrong answer.  I don't care how big the guy is (and all reports seem to indicate he's on a very strict workout regimen this offseason) his closest comparable player by age per BP is Hank Aaron.  Putting Pujols and Cabrera in the same lineup would essentially be like backing up Joe DiMaggio with Hammerin' Hank.  If you can find a way to make that happen, you make it happen, Rasmus be damned.

That being said, I don't think we have the pieces to make it happen.  About the best we could do is drive up the asking price, the Angels and Dodgers have much deeper farm systems than we do.  Our farm system would be downright crippled if we had to give up four of our top prospects.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 3, 2007 10:35 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Problem
Except that it isn't just Cabrera for Rasmus.  Its two years of Cabrera for several years of Rasmus, and probably several years of the team's #1 starter, future closer, possibly future catcher, and the 2nd best hitter on the 07 squad.  If the Cards get in a bidding war with the Yankees, Mets, and Sawx for Cabrera, they lose every single time.  The 08 Cardinals would have basically 2-3 good hitters, a poor starting staff, a lousy IF defense, PLUS just about the almost-ready MLB talent in the system is GONE...But gosh golly Albert and Miggy would hit good.  It may be enough to win 78 games again.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 3, 2007 10:41 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

re....
honestly we don't have the money to sign him long-term and keep the team competitive. there is really no other way around it. what is carp is never quite the same and we need another #1 pitcher? no money. if ankiel sucks then we need to get someone, but if he keeps it up his agent is the bore man. meaning he would want an outrageous amount of money.  
i assume he's going to ask for an a-rod like extension of 8-220mil range. and lets just make a pessimistic assumption and say miguel's weight does become a problem; we have no DH spot to put him in 8-10 years from now.
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Dec 3, 2007 10:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

correct me if I am wrong
but it's not just the "weight," is it?  It's what the weight associates itself with.
He's not really a 'hustle' type guy ... border line immature punk attitude?
Am I wrong?

by the Tewk on Dec 3, 2007 11:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

that's all right...
We could always trade him for prospects if he didn't work out next year.  The way the market keeps exponentially escalating we might make out like bandits on the deal.

by abothebear on Dec 3, 2007 11:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

We can resign him...
He has a mab crush on El Hombre...
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:11 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

As for the 07 Sox...
You're conveniently forgetting the fact that Mike Lowell was WS MVP and they had a starting rotation that included a couple of guys named Josh and Curt who are mildly ok at throwing baseballs towards their catcher.  They also had these other guys named Youkilis, Pedroia, Varitek, and Drew (who actually hit ok in the playoffs).  Yeah, that 3-4 was fearsome, but it was surrounded by a ton of other great hitters and a devastating pitching staff.  That was why that team was outstanding, instead of just a team with two scary hitters.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 3, 2007 10:47 PM EST   0 recs

Nope
If we were one player away then you do the deal, but we aren't.  There are far too many holes on this team to trade away so much for a single player.  We'd have the best two hitters in the NL, but what else?

Rasmus, Wainwright and Duncan?  Are you willing to do that for a guy that can't play defense?

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 3, 2007 11:02 PM EST   0 recs

Well, two of the best hitters in baseball
  Cabrera and Ramirez currently reside next to each other in Florida.  It sure hasn't done that team much good....the Cardinals have too many offensive holes to fill along with their pitching needs.  There's not much to outright buy; there's not enough to trade, and the moves they have made so far haven't improved the team much.  They're in a difficult spot. I expect the Brewers young players to improve upon last year, the Cubs pitching staff to hold up, and I see the Reds as the team with the chance to be the most improved.

Let's hope there's some deals to be had out there that can help us without hurting player development too much.  Maybe they should call the Nationals.  They are picking up everyone's unwanted players--get them to give you something for Rolen and Reyes.  They are paying about 50 cents on the dollar, but they'll take em.....

by jillsinmo on Dec 3, 2007 11:45 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Rameriz is no Manny/Pappi or El Hombre...
He had a good year for a leadoff hitter. We are talking premo 3 and 4 hitters that anchor your line-up. The kind you build a line-up around. The 2 hitter gets better at bats and the 5 hitter if he can hit for contact gets bonus RBIs. Just get somebody that can get on base for the 1 spot and everything else is icing on the cake.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:13 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ramirez...
I'll take him anyday over Cabrera.
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:17 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Why?
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:19 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

OK
  1. He's nearly as good of a hitter.  150OPS+ to 145OPS+ last year.
  2. He's still 4 years from Free Agency.
  3. He's a much better fielder.
  4. He's a much better athlete, and more of an all around player.
Also there have been no mentions of poor attitude, poor work ethic, or weight issues with Ramirez.

I'd rather have Ramirez, no doubt about it.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:29 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Cabrera
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:38 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Cabrera
Is the only one of the two who plays for the Marlins, so I doubt they've ever even considered what the could get for ManRam b/c, well, he doesn't play for them.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 4, 2007 1:04 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hanley
Not Manny.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 4, 2007 1:38 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Holy freaking crap
I'm a fucking moron...I guess since ManRam and Cabrera are so often compared I thought this was a talk about that very talented hitter w/ the last name Ramirez...What the hell, me?

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 4, 2007 4:15 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I was going to let you go
It was getting pretty damn funny!
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 1:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

well,
agree with all of this except the "much better fielder" part.

the stats i've seen show that hanley ramirez is ungodly terrible at short. like, should-have-won-the-mvp-but-no-way-because-he's-that-bad-a-fielder bad.

does this mean boras is human?

by nycbirdo on Dec 4, 2007 5:16 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Cementglove
"should-have-won-the-mvp-but-no-way-because-he's-that-bad-a-fielder bad"

You mean like Ryan Howard?  Wait, what?

by flynn on Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Different positions...
I understand most fielding stats don't like Ramirez, but my point(that I didn't make very well) was that Cabrera is already at the end of the defensive spectrum.  He's terrible at 3B.  He's so big, slow and lackadasical I can't see him making much of an OFer either.  He needs to be at 1B or DH.  We already have a 1B and they don't let us use a DH.

If Ramirez doesn't improve at the hardest position on the field then you have to believe that his athleticism would allow him to hold down a less demanding position.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 1:03 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Rumors are he already dropped 15 pounds
working out this winter..
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 4:17 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

So...
that puts him at 240.

didn't he come into hte league under 200?

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 6:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

You're not making much sense
Ramirez had a 126 OPS+ this year, and that's the worst year he's had since about 94.  Yeah, a totally wasted season.

That would be an awesome 3-4, no doubt.  Too bad there wouldn't be anything left to put around it after that trade.  

The Cardinals don't really have anyone who can get on base in the one hole anymore.  

No one is doubting that Cabrera would look awfully good in the BOB, but he would cost too damn much and would probably put the Cardinals further away from being good in 08.  Two really good players can't carry the other 23 for a whole season.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Note to RNB8206
When things don't make sense....re-read.

by siddfynch on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, yeah
I know...I know...Man that was a dumb moment for me.  I should be banned for stupidity!

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 4, 2007 4:16 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

sorry
and I meant to sound a lighter than i did.

by siddfynch on Dec 4, 2007 3:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

miggy
i agree, we simply can't afford him and that includes what it will cost the franchise for the next 5 years.  we need to concentrate on progressive improvement with a focus on youth.  it's not that i don't like winning the nl central, but we need to get on track to fry bigger fish and we will have to do that with albert and a well-rounded supporting cast, offensively and defensively,  miggy or albert, they still only hit every ninth time.

by sportsman on Dec 3, 2007 11:47 PM EST   0 recs

I disagree....
You play to when not to plan to win. Go for it now and always. I don't champion cleaning out the cupboard. 4 players for Miggy is not a bad deal. If they want Wainright I would insist on Willis.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:15 AM EST   0 recs

What position does he play?
He's a great, great, great hitter.  No doubt about it.

He's just not worth cleaning house for.  We aren't going to win now or later if we've only got two good players.

Look at some of the negatives here as well.  He's a very bad fielder at 3B.  For all the runs he creates with the bat, he's giving some of those back with the glove too.  He's not going to stick at 3B.  He's a professional athlete who is overweight at the age of 24.  His work ethic and attitude have been questioned on numerous occasions.

Look the guy can rake with the best of em, but he's not worth Rasmus AND Wainwright plus.  It would be a terrible move given the situation the Cardinals are in now.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:23 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I agree, and disagree
As much as I don't want to, I agree with Bobbyballgame1 that Wainwright and Rasmus is too much.  But I don't have a problem trading Rasmus or any other un-proven minor leaguer for him.  I would trade all our minor leaguers away for young, proven, mlb talent. I'd divide Memphis into three parts and send them off for Santana, Bedard, and Cabrera right now, throwing in Duncan, Reyes, Ryan, and Thompson right along with them.  I wouldn't even care if we didn't bring back Santana  in '09, heck, trade him at the deadline and you'd have a new and improved Memphis right there.

And as far as Cabrera's defense and work ethic go, he is still very young and it is quite reasonable that getting away from Florida, going to a serious club like the Cardinals, having a mentor like Pujols, and having coaching from Oquendo could do wonders for the guy.  I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he turned out to be a plus 3b if he came here.  And again, flip him to an american league team at the deadline if he doesn't show improvement.  The beauty of the Cabrera situation is that, barring injury, he will be just as valuable next year as he is this year.  Its almost a no risk deal.  So what if you trade Rasmus?  If you end up having trader's remorse you can get a different Rasmus next year.

by abothebear on Dec 4, 2007 1:13 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

sacrificing your only
blue chip prospect who plays above average up the middle defense for a player without a defensive position is not a good idea.

by azruavatar on Dec 4, 2007 12:25 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Moz
As long as he has at least kicked the tires on miggy I will be happy. If they ask for too much then no, but there must be some sort of reasonable deal people here would be happy with.
I cannot stand being a fanatical for an egregiously average team. I am giving a two year grace period before we break up.

by stlknows on Dec 4, 2007 12:20 AM EST   0 recs

Unless Mo has a really good poker face it
looks like my dream will be crushed. Apparently we asked about Miggy and they wanted Rasmus. So unless Mo pulls a Jedi mind trick I just wasted a lot of typing.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:25 AM EST   0 recs

Of course they wanted Rasmus
Look what they've been asking the Angels for.

by willievinceterry on Dec 4, 2007 1:58 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

given
I still think its reasonable to offer Rasmus. What are your expectations for Rasmus in the bigs? 30 homers 130 rbis and a .300 ba? sounds familiar. wait thats what miggy is doing every year, and he's only like 4 years older!
I cannot stand being a fanatical for an egregiously average team. I am giving a two year grace period before we break up.

by stlknows on Dec 4, 2007 2:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

The Trade
It wouldn't be straight up.

Rasmus may never be the hitter he is, but that isn't the point.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 2:39 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

It's not his hitting, so much as his position...
Rasmus will probably never hit as well as Cabrera. But he's a center fielder. Centerfielders who hit well are something of a rarity.

by DiscoJer on Dec 4, 2007 5:03 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Dewitt has the money
to sign BOTH Miggy & Albert to long deals if he wanted to.

Signing both would not put ol' Bill in the wellfare line.

I'm not sure why some think the Cardinals couldn't afford it. Bill has plenty of money to spend if he chooses, this whole team spending cap is not something that is unbendable.

by KYCards on Dec 4, 2007 12:25 AM EST   0 recs

wel....
we know he can sign both of them, but its pitching quality that i am worried about. trading a few of our better pitching prospects away leaves us with an old carp and i'm sure wainny will want a raise at some point. if you haven't noticed good starting pitchers require a dump truck full of money or half of the farm; after getting miggy we won't have either.
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Dec 4, 2007 12:31 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Certainly...
They could certainly afford it money-wise, but then they wouldn't have the cheap productive talent to put around those two necessary to win.

Money's not the problem, the talent you have to give up is.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:35 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

if he's got the money
then let's wait a couple years til miggy hits free agency and bid for him then.  we'll have saved our prospects and should (hopefully) have filled some of those holes (with spared prospects) and then the huge acquisition could put us over the edge.

 

by birdsonthebat on Dec 4, 2007 12:44 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

wainny....
while he's a great guy, i don't see him being more than a #3, maybe a #2 at his very best. The marlins think willis is a #1. i dont think the marlins would do that trade straight up.
In regards to the miggy trade....we can wait for our young guys to develop and then have a longer run of being competitive. Miggy might make us better in 08', but in 09' with no rasmus and others we will be worse.
. . .I'm your huckleberry. . .

by joshbdork on Dec 4, 2007 12:28 AM EST   0 recs

I don't think it would take Wainright.
I think we underestimate our pitching prospects. Otto or Boggs or both if that's what it takes along with Reyes wouldn't break my heart. But I really want to see what Walters can do. Hands off him. Maybe he can be the next Greg Maddux.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:40 AM EST   0 recs

Red Blazer
Why is everyone ganging up on Red Blazer because he says we should trade for one the top 5 hitters in baseball?
I mean come on if you get the opportunity to aquire Cabrera YOU DO IT! Who cares who you give up? I think people overvalue prospects they are called prospects for a reason they may never do anything......... When we know what Cabrera will do.....
Our lineup would be awesome.....#2.Ankiel #3.Albert #4.Cabrera #5.Duncan pretty scary middle of the lineup.....
Then imagine the Rotation with Carp, Wainwright, Pineiro then the rest can be filled in.
With that team we could be real contenders.......
So stop picking on Red Blazer he speaks the truth!!!!

by Calhoun on Dec 4, 2007 11:01 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Missing the point
"I mean come on if you get the opportunity to aquire Cabrera YOU DO IT!"

These things don't occur in a vacuum.  You can't just lay a blanket statement out there without mentioning what it cost to get him.

Rasmus AND Wainwright plus!  Are you willing to do that?

Then where does he play?  What happens if he keep gaining weight?  How do you get pitching after blowing your whole wad on one player?

It's not as simple as..."If you can get him, you do, period."

Analyze the situation.  It's not feasable to acquire Cabrera, and still have enough resources to fill the many other holes on this team.

If you are one player away from being elite...you probably have to do it.  However, we aren't on player away.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 4, 2007 1:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Bobby...
"Rasmus AND Wainwright plus!  Are you willing to do that?"

I dont think we would have to give up Wainwright to aquire Cabrera. I`m willing to give up any prospects to get Cabrera but not Wainwright...

"Then where does he play?  What happens if he keep gaining weight?  How do you get pitching after blowing your whole wad on one player?"

Play him at third give him a chance to help turn this team around... If he keeps gaining weight it would be pretty easy to trade him away and maybe gain more then we gave away. We might actually help our farm system by acquiring him and then trading him away. You gain pitching when Carpenter comes back thats what this Cardinal team depends on.

"If you are one player away from being elite...you probably have to do it.  However, we aren't on player away."

I think there is no way to know if we are one player away... I think that if Carp comes back healthy and we acquired Cabrera we would be pretty good...

by Calhoun on Dec 4, 2007 2:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

It would take Wainwright..
The Marlins are looking for a package of young players; in their talks with the Angels, sources say they're asking for 2B Howie Kendrick, C Jeff Mathis, prospect pitcher Nick Adenhart, and pitcher Ervin Santana; the Angels are trying to substitute somebody else for Santana. To even compete with that deal with their weak farm system, the Cardinals most likely would have to include both Rasmus and Wainwright--they're about the only two young players the Cardinals would have to offer (blue chip prospect and promising future ace).

The Marlins have all the leverage, which would make any deal for him expensive and in their favor. If Rolan goes, I say find a placeholder for a couple of seasons, hope that Mulder and Kennedy return to something resembling form, and then use both to make a deadline trade for a 3B prospect who's close to the majors (like, say, Brian Buscher from the Twins system).

by Forsch31 on Dec 4, 2007 12:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

No
I didn't read all the comments, so I'm sure this has been said multiple times already, but I just want to throw that out there.

It would be incredibly, inexcusably stupid to trade Rasmus for ANYBODY. This team has got to get younger. Rasmus is the star of a very weak farm system. Trading him for Santana or Cabrera or Mickey Mantle would do huge damage to this entire organization.

by Jhusk on Dec 4, 2007 1:54 AM EST   0 recs

why?
Why does this team have to get younger?  

And is Cabrera so ancient that it would make a difference?

by abothebear on Dec 4, 2007 1:59 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Youth
The team needs to get younger because the Cards simply can't afford to out-bid everybody for free agent veterans.  We need to have spots on the roster filled by guys who are under the club's control for several years at a cheap price.  Having young talent also enables you to trade for guys like Miggy; if Rasmus wasn't the ONLY good prospect lurking in our farm system, I'm sure we'd make a run at Miggy.  As it is, however, trading Rasmus means we have to go dumpster diving for several years to come to fill the other 7 fielding positions not occupied by Albert and Miguel.  Do you really want to see guys like Preston Wilson, So Taguchi, and Aaron Miles comprise the better part of our lineup?  Besides, the "sell everything to get Cabrera" mentality that is thrown around this diary so flippantly only makes sense if the Cards were 1 or 2 pieces away from being World Series Champs again.  They aren't, and no one can pretend they are with a straight face.  

To become a serious contender, our three most serious needs are: much better starting pitching (as in, a legit #1 and #2), another power-hitting right hand outfielder, and a middle infield with a respectable on base percentage.  Miguel can't fill any of these needs, except to become a power hitting right handed third baseman, which adds another "need" to our list: a better diet and glove for our third  baseman.

by Ray Lankford on Dec 4, 2007 7:55 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Because
This organization has allowed its farm system to decline for about five years, at least, and now finds itself in the position of few trade assets, a big payroll with declining veterans, and lots of holes to fill. If the Cardinals had a healthy farm system, they wouldn't be in this position--they would have low-cost, talented replacements to step in when a veteran stumbled or cashed in on free agency. It's the reason why teams with a much smaller budget still seem to compete every year, despite not throwing around funny money. It's also a reason why a team like the Yankees were dominating in the late 1990s--that started with an excellent system. It gave them a solid team core, around which they plugged holes in free agency and smart trades.

That' the importance of younger players--they allow a team to use free agency and the trade market to solve manageable problems rather than restock the roster, and avoid the major marquee trades that could possibly hurt a team more than help. They also give a team more leverage and more assets in trade talks.

by Forsch31 on Dec 4, 2007 12:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

good lord
miggie ain't worth the Cards 4 best prospects.

1? yes

2? OK

3? only if one of them ain't colby (they wouldnt even talk to Torii Hunter because of that kid so they better not trade him. and for the Cards sake he better be a much better player than advertised)

4? hell to the no.

miggie is a fat, unmotivated player. he's david ortiz jr, only ortiz is not unmotivated. seriously people, they are almost the same players. only ortiz is 8 years older & left handed. look the contract ortiz got, and thats exactly what miggie is worth. 4 years, $50+ million.

the only reason this is an issue is flordia is jerking around the LA teams by demanding more players at the last second. thats not a good way to do business. i seriously would not be surprised if miggie is still in south beach come april. florida screwed up big time & all the teams know it.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Dec 4, 2007 4:02 AM EST   0 recs

good comparison
cabrera is just like ortiz, except that ortiz is "motivated," nearly a decade older and hits from the opposite side of the plate. they're just the same. and by "just the same," i mean they're both fat. also, chris carpenter and richie sexson are the same.

by baw on Dec 4, 2007 1:36 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

i bow
before your brilliance.

if you people can't see they aren't the same player then i cant help any of you.  

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Dec 4, 2007 5:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

so
we agree, then. they aren't the same player.

by baw on Dec 5, 2007 12:20 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Diaries like this
are killing the site

by SpringfieldDude on Dec 4, 2007 4:50 AM EST   0 recs

What?
I agree the diaries get crazy and have even posted a diary about diaries.

But, this is not just some silly suggestion.  It's discussion of a rumor.

Additionally, it has garnered 54 comments so far...not just one or two.

How can you say anything that generates that much traffic is bad for a site?  Maybe not your choice of reading, but definitely not bad for a site.

by RedbirdRay on Dec 4, 2007 10:22 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: comments
it's quality, not quantity.

This diary is just running in circles of futility.

I will be brief.

by Alxfritz on Dec 4, 2007 10:44 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Very true.
The subject itself is worth dicussing.  Whether certain posters spew crap from thier keybords like vomit is another issue.

by RedbirdRay on Dec 4, 2007 11:01 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

You have to be kidding...
This is the stuff we should be talking about. Winter meeting activity. I love this time of year almost as much as the season itself.What do you propose would be a good topic? I would like to see it...
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Dec 4, 2007 12:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

What a dream
Rolen/Reyes for Hall/Cap

Hall plays center right?

Wainwrigh/Rasmus+ for Miggy.

Duncan for a pre arb pitcher.

Hall plays left in '08 and moves to center in '09

Rotation 08

pineiero
loop
duncan trade
Cap
Welley/Mulder
Carp returns

starting 8

hall
ankiel/ludwick
pujols
miggy
edmonds
molina
kennedy
izturis

I'll take that

by nybirdfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:15 AM EST   0 recs

wow...ok...dreaming
I'm not going to comment on the Miggy trade you propose, it's prepostrous anyway...

So Hall would lead-off?  Did you look at the fact that he averages about 130 K's a year and had a .315 OBP last season?  If he's in St. Louis he hits 2nd (because TLR loves power hitter in the 2 hole), 4th or 5th.  He's certainly not leading off.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Dec 4, 2007 10:38 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Dude
He didnt have them in a specific order... he was just naming the starting 8...

by Calhoun on Dec 4, 2007 11:06 AM EST