all-time tradee team
right after the edmonds trade went down, somebody asked me if jimmy was the best player the cards had ever traded away. probably not the best, i answered (they did trade rogers hornsby, after all), but he might be in the top 3 or top 5; i really don't know. and of course, the answer would depend partly on how we define "best." do we mean the player with the best overall career stats? the one with the best current-year stats at the time of the trade? the one who played the best after being traded away?
obviously the question merited in-depth scrutiny, and a corresponding post at VEB. to help answer it, i put together an all-traded team --- the best players at each position who the cardinals dealt away. i defined "best" as, roughly speaking, "cardinalest" --- the guys most steeped in the franchise's tradition and lore. all the guys on this list were long-term redbirds (at least 5 years w/ the franchise) and, generally, contributors to championship teams. in varying degrees, they all were or are franchise icons. so let's get going:
c ted simmons
traded december 12, 1980, with rollie fingers and pete vukovich in exchange for sixto lezcano, lary sorensen, david green, and dave lapoint
talk about controversy . . . . simba was the face of the franchise in the 1970s, the team's best power hitter and a 6-time all-star. he had the bad luck to play in the era of great-hitting catchers (bench, fisk, munson, carter, etc.) and hence was somewhat overshadowed outside of stl, but he gave card fans something to cheer about during a bleak decade; at the time of his departure he ranked 5th on the franchise's all-time home run list and to this day ranks 6th in rbi. whitey herzog had only been the gm for a few months when he dealt this beloved 11-year cardinal away, in a trade that seemed mind-bogglingly lopsided: the cards gave up three all-stars --- their best hitter, best pitcher (vukovich), and a hall of fame relief pitcher they'd acquired only a few days before (fingers) --- for a bunch of players nobody ever heard of. in hindsight, the trade looks brilliant; herzog ended up flipping sorensen for lonnie smith, a crucial part of the '82 championship team; lapoint also contributed to that team, and then goto traded with green and others for jack clark; and lezcano was included in the package that brought ozzie smith to st louis. that course-changing trade put the cardinals on track to get younger, faster, and better defensively. but at the time, we all howled bloody murder --- it looked like herzog, a first-time gm, didn't know what the hell he was doing.
runner-up: tim mccarver, part of the most famous trade in baseball history (ie, the curt flood trade of october 7, 1969)
1b jim bottomley
traded december 17, 1932, to cincinnati for estel crabtree and ownie carroll
i was tempted to list another herzog head-scratcher here, the june 1983 trade that sent keith hernandez to new york, but bottomley was a more significant player to the franchise. the starting first baseman on its first four pennant-winners (1926, 28, 30, and 31), sunny jim spent 11 years in st louis and remains a prominent figure on the franchise leaderboards --- 8th in batting average and homers; 9th in slugging, runs, and hits; 7th in doubles; and 3d in rbi. it was a classic branch rickey trade --- bottomley was 32 years old, past his prime but at the height of his earning power. crabtree took only 34 at-bats for the cardinals and then got sent to the minors, not returning to big-league ball for 8 years; carroll got traded a few weeks later for dazzy vance, a 42-year-old hall of fame pitcher who hung on long enough to get a world series ring w/ the gashouse gang in 1934. . . . . . . bottomley, like many an ex-cardinal of that era, came back to st louis at the end of his career to finish up his playing days with the browns.
runners-up: hernandez and johnny mize, traded by rickey at age 29 after the 1941 season to help open a spot in the lineup for a kid named musial.
2b rogers hornsby
traded december 20, 1926 to the new york giants for frankie frisch and jimmy ring
today marks the 81st anniversary of the trade. it happened only a couple months after player-manager hornsby had led the cardinals to their first world championship; nice job, thanks a lot, now get lost. another branch rickey special --- hornsby had just turned 30 (a key treshhold in rickey's mind) and had a poor season in 1926 by his own standards --- he batted just .317 after 5 straight years at .384 or above. hornsby still had a few great years left --- he won the mvp award in 1929 and led the cubs to the nl pennant --- but frisch was 3 years younger and made less money. he played on 4 st louis pennant winners and 2 world champions, managing the gashouse gang to a world title in 1934.
runner-up: red schoendienst, dealt to the new york giants on june 14, 1956 in an 8-player deal engineered by frank "trader" lane. alvin dark and whitey lockman were the main players who came to st louis.
ss marty marion
he actually was never traded; bill walsingham released him in october 24, 1951, after marion missed the entire 1951 season. interestingly enough, noteworthy cardinal shortstops tend to leave the franchise by means other than trade; marion was released, ozzie retired, and renteria and eckstein left via free agency. the only two who were traded were dick groat and garry templeton, and neither one really seemed to fit on this list. groat did play a big role on on championship team ('64), but he only played in st louis for 3 seasons. templeton was here for 6 years but didn't play on winning teams and left with a legacy that's more negative than positive. so i bent the rules here a little bit and chose marion, who was 32 years old at the time of the release and one of several regulars (along w/ musial, slaughter, and schoendienst) still on hand from the cards' early-40s juggernaut. but that team (not unlike the current one) had been held together too long; enos and red would follow him out the door in the ensuing years, and the team would slog through the 1950s with only The Man to remind them of the glory years. marion signed with the brownies a month or so after the cards let him go.
runner-up: templeton.
3b ken boyer
traded october 20, 1965, to the new york mets for charley smith and al jackson
lotta parallels here to the edmonds trade. like edmonds, boyer was an almost hall-of-famer who ranks among the best fielders of all time at his position. although just a year removed from his mvp season, he was in obvious decline at the time of the trade --- barely a league-average hitter, and no longer a gold-glove defender. the breakup of the 1964 champs bears a lot of similarity to the abrupt breakup of the 2006 champs; the '64 cards were held together for one lackluster year (80-81) and then torn asunder, with the entire heart of the lineup (groat, boyer, and bill white) sent packing within an 8-day period after the 1965 season. it was particularly cruel to deal boyer to the pathetic mets. at the time he was dealt boyer ranked 4th all-time on the franchise list in games and at-bats; 5th in runs, hits, and rbi; and 2d in homers.
runner up: nobody of note.
lf joe medwick
traded june 12, 1940, with curt davis to the brooklyn dodgers for 4 guys and $125,000 in cash.
you wanna talk salary dumps? medwick was only 28 years old, 3 years removed from a triple crown season and riding a five-year run of consecutive all-star appearances. the cardinals got four plowhorses in exchange for him; it was virtually a straight cash sale. but cut rickey some slack; the great depression was still in force, and the cardinals were richer in prospects than dollars --- enos slaughter had arrived the previous year, and stan musial was on the horizon. besides, medwick (though still shy of the deadly age-30 mark) appeared to be slipping; he hit only 14 hrs in 1939 and just 3 in the first quarter of the 1940 schedule. at the time of the trade he was slugging only .437. he bounced back (they all do) and helped the dodgers to a pennant the following year, but it was his last great season; after age 30, medwick would never again hit more than 7 homers in a year.
runner-up: chick hafey, traded on april 11, 1932 to the reds for a coupla nobodies.
cf edmonds
traded december 15, 2007, for david freese
this is a very crowded field. the cardinals have a long tradition of outstanding centerfielders, and nearly all of them get dumped at some point. taylor douthit, the cf on the 26, 28, and 30 pennant winners, got traded to cincinnati in mid-1931 (right after he turned 30; branch rickey strikes again). curt flood, you all know about; willie mcgee got dumped in late 1990 for 3 prospects; and ray lankford was launched in august 2001 for woody williams. while the flood trade fascinates for its repercussions in the labor arena, it's a pretty interesting transaction to pick apart at a pure baseball level. the cardinals packaged up the two longest-tenured mainstays of their 1960s dynasty --- flood and mccarver, both of whom debuted in the late 1950s --- with their best relief pitcher (joe hoerner), in exchange for one very troubled superstar who couldn't play defense and couldn't stay healthy. allen got traded a year later for ted sizemore, a nice little player but a pretty scanty return on the bloc of veteran talent the cards dealt away. . . . . like the '64 team, the 67-68 team got blown apart pretty fast. within two off-seasons, the cards had parted ways with four regulars (maris, cepeda, mccarver, and flood) and a big chunk of the bench. they were back in contention from 1971-75 but always came up a pitcher or 3 short.
runner-up: flood.
rf enos slaughter
traded april 11, 1954, to the yankees for bill virdon and a coupla throw-ins
if he hadn't missed 3 years of his prime fighting in world war ii, slaughter would rank in the franchise's all-time top 3 in nearly every counting-stat category. even with the missed time he's in the top 5 on nearly every list. he was 37 years old when the dealt him, preparing for his 14th season in st louis; he sobbed at his locker when he learned of the trade, and not even the chance to play for the 5-time-defending world champ yankees could console him. the cards got a fine player in exchange, albeit one who was still a year away; virdon won the rookie of the year award in 1955. the following year trader lane, outsmarting himself as usual, flipped virdon to pittsburgh for a couple of lesser players.
runner-up: george hendrick, traded december 12, 1984, to the pirates for john tudor.
i ran out of time and won't be able to go into the pitchers; the rotation would include dizzy dean, harry brecheen, curt simmons, and mort cooper. to get back to the original question: i'd say the "best" player the cardinals have ever traded away has got to be hornsby, with boyer edmonds slaughter and medwick in the 2 through 5 slots --- arrange them however you want.
0 recs |
87 comments
Comments
Sound familiar?
Eckstein, Edmonds, Suppan, Marquis so far as regulars have parted ways, bench wise you have Miles, Bennett, Taguchi, revolving 2B door it looks like they are repeating this same strategy that they used before.
by StLHugo on Dec 20, 2007 9:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know it hurts...
... but I remind you of a certain lefty pitcher sento to the Phillies for a bag of baseballs...
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on Dec 20, 2007 9:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Steve Carlton
This has to rank as one of the best players the Cards ever traded away.
by Born in 82 on Dec 20, 2007 9:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no brainer
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rereading the rules
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
He's gotta be atleast close to Cardinalest.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 20, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, don't get me started!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 20, 2007 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad the trades
On the other end of the spectrum, the Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock trade brought a couple pennants.
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Other that Carlton
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably
Both just looked like they should knock the ball out of the park every at bat. I did not get to see Mize hit that much but from what I did he was the most fearsome looking hitter you ever saw and you never moved him off the plate. He would take a pitch up at his chin and just move his head enough for it to miss him; step out spit tobacco juice and knock the hell out off the next one.
Every time I see a post from you "Big Jawn" I think of him, you picked a great one. It took me a while to get used to Pujols but now I love to see him hit.
Now the most annoying looking hitter on my list would be Nomar Garciaparra. I have to make a trip to the refrigerator when he hits, I cant stand all those pitty pats he does with his feet and all that playing around with his batting gloves after every pitch. Drives me crazy and now Skip Shoemaker is starting the same things with the gloves. Forgive me for wasting space; I'm just a little weird I guess.
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
two guys i can't stand:
by SleepyCA on Dec 20, 2007 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have been thinking,
Gibson would have buzzed his chin about twice at 98MPH and then walked to home plate and said. "Now if you point that bat at me again, I'm going to stick the next one in your ear." I'm reasonably sure that is what would have happened.
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Wisdom of Gibson
Yes this is my favorite baseball quote.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I will put Prince Albert on the fearsome hitter list as well. The way he just settles in and then glares at the pitcher without moving at all would strike fear in my heart on the mound.
by cardsgirl95 on Dec 20, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone remember seeing
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 20, 2007 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cardgirl,
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot
by cardsgirl95 on Dec 20, 2007 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pointing the bat
And David Eckstein is the most annoying hitter of all time not named Craig Counsell.
by Alxfritz on Dec 21, 2007 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It might
(P.S. - I think Lil' Davey will be annoying now that he is not a Cardinal because I won't be viewing him through Redbird Red lens anymore.)
by cardsgirl95 on Dec 21, 2007 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only person I have ever heard
by ridgesee on Dec 21, 2007 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First Time GMs and team Styes
Mo and Lu are a little different in that there plan is currently about player development and not about a style of bseball that their team will employ. I really don't know what their vision is yet. Are they going to focus on groundball machines for pitchers and put more of an emphasis of everday players with defensive ability? Who knows. I think there are pretty defined players that a team needs to win a world series--two aces pitchers and a lights out pen (which the birds might have by 2009) are very important but the type of play that gets you through the other 162 games to the playoffs is just as important and this is the area that I want some insight on.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I remember there was a
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 20, 2007 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Already Done
by liam on Dec 20, 2007 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the nice link
in no particular order
- cf Tony Scott to Htn for Joaquin Andujar
- lhp Bob Sykes to the Yankees for AA OF Willie McGee
- the three team deal that sent P Silvio Martinez to the Tribe, someone to Philly and Lonnie Smith to the Cards
- the signings of Dane Iorg, Jim Kaat, Mark Littell and Steve Braun
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did a little surfing research
- the three team deal sent Sorenson/Martinez to Indians who sent C Bo Diaz to Phils who flipped Lonnie to Cards
- Iorg (some thought he was MVP of 82 series) was not acquired by Herzog....already hanging out since 77....Kaat also a Card prior to Whitey having been purchased in April of 80
- Whitey did pick up key relievers Doug Bair and Jeff Lahti in seprate deals with Reds - both turned out to be a great set-up guys for Sutter
while we're at it....let's not forget cameos from two of my favorites - Tito Landrum & Gene Roof
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in less than 3 years - Mo take note!
- Simmons
- Kennedy
- Durham
- Tyson
- Reitz
- Scott
- Vuckovich
- Sykes
- Fingers
- Sorenson
- Martinez
- L Smith
- O Smith
- McGee
- Porter
- Tenace
- Mura
- Andujar
- LaPoint
- Littell
- Lahti
- Bair
- Sutter
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post, LB
by rockin redbird on Dec 20, 2007 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Freaked out"...
by cardsrul on Dec 20, 2007 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Hernandez liked
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
by rockin redbird on Dec 20, 2007 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too true
by cardsgirl95 on Dec 20, 2007 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also true
by rockin redbird on Dec 21, 2007 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I had a better memory
To wit, by 1980, Simba was coming to be seen as a near liability, defensively, behind the plate. NOT to the Mike Piazza stage, but clearly his arm strength and the effect on his (already slow) running were factors... SUCH that, management (i.e. Whitey) wanted to find a new position for Teddy.
There was the idea (Whitey whispering to Simba) that the team would dump HERNANDEZ, who, --despite a legit MVP year in '79 and arguably the slickest defensive 1B in Cardinal history-- Whitey disliked intensely.
Simmons himself, however, balked at this. Not so much because he was resistent to giving up catching, but SPECIFICALLY because he did not want the onus of replacing Keith at first base -- where he would surely suffer, defensively, by comparison. I definitely remember Teddy saying (some time after the fact maybe) that he could not stomach the idea of being booed by the fans, or in any way ruining what had been a solid love affair with Cards' fans up to that point.
* In general, I do not remember any acrimony on the part of Simba, when we traded him to the Braves. Not that he wanted to go, but, a'la' Edmonds, he was ok with it.
** Ironically, a few years later Hernandez was peddled along anyway.
by the Tewk on Dec 21, 2007 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Medwick
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Joe_Medwick_1911
by Zubin on Dec 20, 2007 11:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know we all hated him
JD Drew. He was Top 20 All-time in HRs in franchise history when he was traded. We got the good end of that deal, although, it has been a revolving door in the OF since he left.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 20, 2007 11:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting stuff!
According to the late Bob Broeg's Redbirds: A Century of Cardinals Baseball (River City Publishers, 1981), Breadon saw the club's attendance INCREASE from 681,575 to 763,613 in 1927. Frisch set a record for most chances fielded by a non-1Bman (1037), struck out TEN times in 617 at-bats, stole 48 bases, got 208 hits, drove in 78 runs, and batted .337. Hornsby belted 26 homers, hit .361, and drove in 125 runs in '27 for the Giants... and was traded again before the '28 season because he couldn't get along with Giants' ownership/management!
Broeg quoted Breadon as saying, "I knew then that it was the ball club that counted. I never again feared trading a player. But of all the players I ever had, the greatest was Frank Frisch of 1927."
Frisch, of course, established himself as a Cardinals' all-timer as player/manager of the Gas House Gang... imagine trying to ride herd on "Dizzy" Dean, "Pepper" Martin, Leo Durocher, and "Ducky" Medwick, among others!
by The Ol Goaler on Dec 20, 2007 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
interesting
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great posts all around...
by cardschinmusic on Dec 21, 2007 7:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post!
I know who the 1B would be, the 2B would likely be Placido Polanco. I guess the SS would be Jack Wilson and I don't have a clue if there are any currently active 3Bs who were drafted by the Cardinals. The catcher would have to be Yadi.
The OF would be pretty thin with Duncan, Drew, and ??? I guess you could count Ankiel even though he was not drafted as an OF. Pitching would pretty much start and end with Dan Haren since Wainer doesn't count as he was a Braves signee. I guess Looper was a Cards pick.
If anyone can help fill this out I would be grateful.
by giveml on Dec 20, 2007 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Coco Crisp in the OF
by chuckb on Dec 20, 2007 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sadly, you got most of them
by SleepyCA on Dec 20, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All draft pick lineup
LF - Chris Duncan
1B - Albert Pujols
RF - JD Drew
3B - Placido Polanco
C - Yadier Molina
2B - Adam Kennedy
P - Pitcher
SS - Jack Wilson
Rotation
SP - Matt Morris
SP - Braden Looper
SP - Anthony Reyes
SP - Dan Haren
SP - Brad Thompson
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 20, 2007 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Placido Polanco
by giveml on Dec 20, 2007 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols to 3B
Ankiel to LF
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 21, 2007 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The picture....
if ever a guy should have been untradeable, it should have been him....
by siddfynch on Dec 20, 2007 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
But Slaughter did
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who did we get
I always thought it was Sal (the Barber) Maglie and Irv Noren... but those two weirdnesses (ex-Yankees)came a few years later.
Your memory gets muddled when you get old.
*by the way, is there a clean, simple web place to find historic "trade" information??
by the Tewk on Dec 21, 2007 1:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Slaughter Trade
Apr 11,1954 - Traded by Cardinals to Yankees for Emil Tellinger, Mel Wright and Bill Virdon.
Virdon went on to have a 12-year career, mostly with the Pirates. Wright made the majors in a relief capacity for two seasons with the Cardinals. Tellinger never made it to the show.
by liam on Dec 21, 2007 2:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great History Lesson
by Birds on the Bat on Dec 20, 2007 2:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Brock OF
McGwire 1B
Ozzie SS
Gibson SP
That is my quick and dirty list, still needs lost of positions but those I figured were locks.
by StLHugo on Dec 20, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here are a few
frisch 2b
pepper martin & mike shannon 3b
walker rf
tudor sp
kile sp
henke closer
by bigcardsfan5 on Dec 20, 2007 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like Red Schoendenst
by ridgesee on Dec 20, 2007 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, the Redhead
The Cards also brought Bill White and Willie McGee back as bench players... McGee turned into a heckuva pinch-hitter in his later days...
by The Ol Goaler on Dec 20, 2007 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Lankford...
Often overlooked, he is definitely an all time Cardinal great in my book.
by DiscoJer on Dec 20, 2007 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lankford tore up Cincinnati
An honest compilation, by ME, of the most productive Cardinal I ever saw (live at the park)... the winner would be Ray Lankford. Defensively, too... he made several nice catches that I have witnessed.
However, on TV he sometimes sucked (sorry).
I agree he got some raw treatment, e.g. he had a very fine over-looked season the year McGwire was bopping 70 homers.
by the Tewk on Dec 21, 2007 2:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The top of that last is obviously
by Red in Chicago on Dec 20, 2007 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The list
by cardsrul on Dec 21, 2007 2:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post and further thoughts
- yeah, Drew belongs on the list
- Carlton was traded because of Gussie's stinginess and inability to see the the inevitable.....a trait he held onto until Whitey changed his mind (a little) over cards, braunschweiger and cold Bud at the mansion....and Whitey walked away with total operational control, talk about a poker player....but, he delivered too!
- Whitey made some great trades but it's interesting to note thru lboros post that he was lucky too......several of his big players (Simmons, Templeton, Hernandez) were made not out of genius but desperation.....Whitey bet wrong that Simba would play left field, Tempy and Keith had to go
- for sentimental reasons, I would suggest that Ken Reitz (given to the Cubs) was a person of note at third base
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
more on Whitey
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trades
by BigJawnMize on Dec 20, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Drew
by sdrone on Dec 20, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Drew
by rockin redbird on Dec 20, 2007 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
couple of notes
For CF, don't forget about Willie McGee.
by juggler on Dec 20, 2007 3:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Simmons trade
by Red in Chicago on Dec 20, 2007 3:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
by Hinkster on Dec 20, 2007 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, did Ted Simmons have
by jillsinmo on Dec 20, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Read Nine Innings by Daniel Okrent
Simmons contract demands played a large part in his trade.
by flynn on Dec 20, 2007 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
top of the rotation
by vances law on Dec 20, 2007 5:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Badge of honor
by brdsnbt on Dec 20, 2007 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
These are the posts I really enjoy
Still Edmunds for Freese -- not good.
by The Duke on Dec 20, 2007 6:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Herzog 's Dealings
Look at all the guys who departed in Herzog's first month or two:
C Terry Kennedy - Thought of very highly at the time.
C Ted Simmons - Everyone knows about him.
1B Leon Durham - Also thought of very highly, and had decent career.
SP Pete Vukovich - Cy Young Award Winner after traded.
RP Rollie Fingers - Just passed thru, but HOF Reliver.
C Jody Davis and RP Roy Thomas - Lost in Rule 5 draft due to roster squeeze of trades. Davis became a good C for the Cubs, and Thomas remained a decent major league reliever for Toronto.
RP George Frazier - Had 10 year ML career.
RP Al Olmstead - Just 23 years old, coming off good rookie year.
C Steve Swisher - Major League backup C.
IF Mike Philips - Major League Utility IFer
RP John Littlefield - Decent reliever.
SP John Urrea - Had bounced back to a league average reliever after great rookie year in '77
3B Ty Waller- Thought of as a prospect
RP Kim Seaman - Thought to be potential decent lefty reliever.
and the following year he traded:
SS Gary Templeton
SP Larry Sorenson
SP Silvio Martinez
CF Tony Scott
RF Sixto Lezcano
RP Luis DeLeon
RP Jim Gott - Lost in Rule 5
RP Donnie Moore - Future Closer
RP Mike Stanton
SP Bob Shirely
I'm sorry, but "Mo" doesn't have that much talent to work with....
by KJOK on Dec 21, 2007 12:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No doubt...
by rockin redbird on Dec 21, 2007 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Donnie Moore
by Alxfritz on Dec 21, 2007 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers
by Zubin on Dec 21, 2007 2:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
one other trade
by ridgesee on Dec 21, 2007 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Addition to All-time -trade list?
by jedmoon on Dec 21, 2007 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs



















