the edmonds trade

We all loved us some Jimmy Ballgame, he was a GREAT Cardinal. The game 6 walk-off was one of the best Cardinal moments ever. Good luck to 15.

But, life goes on. We'll always have the memories, won't we? And the memories with Jimmy are largely of the positive variety. Far too many to count, but despite all the defensive gems, the 2004 NLCS Game 6 HR will always be my favorite Edmonds highlight.

Good luck, Jimmy. We will miss you.

It's pretty much a given we will be sub-par in 2008.   It's doubtful we will best .500 or finish in the top half of the division.

It's also fairly likely Rolen might be moved by season's end.

Like azru and the rest of the statistically oriented crowd, I tend to think of things subjectively.   However, intangibes are a part of the game and do have a financial impact.  How much of a financial impact is the money saved?  What does it come to?  $6+ million?

So, in a subpar season, you hypothetically move two of the three franchise icons (Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen).   What does this do to ticket sales?  What does it do to merchandising sales?  Edmonds stuff was a top seller.   How much does this disenfranchise the common fan?   Is the lost revenue from these things worth the difference when subtracted from the $6+ million?   Does this curb the likelyhood Jimmy will come and wave with the rest of the folks in the convertibles?  

This move seems to save marginal dollars for no real gain to me.  

I lose confidence in Mo daily.

I Live For This

In a bit of irony, it seems like Tony's resigning partially contributed to this rebuilding trade. Regardless, I'm buying tickets for when the Padres come now.

As far as retiring as a Cardinal, Edmonds had control over that.  He waived his no-trade clause.  Seems he opted for another shot at the WS rather than a farewell tour.

As far as the 3B prospect we got back, he's hit well at all 3 levels in his year and a half of pro ball.  He likely would have spent much of last season at AA, except the Pads #1 prospect was playing 3B at AA.

Now we seem to have a log-jam at 3B in the high minors.  Craig and Freese both ought to be at AA with Rico Washington at AAA.  Is Craig available to package in trade? or have they given up on him defensively at 3B?

Arizon got Haren and pitcher Connor Robertson.

From Houston they received reliever Chad Qualls, infielder Chris Burke and right-hander Juan Gutierrez.

Anyway, I wish him the best, and will always remember running from work into a bar just in time to see him win Game 6 of the 2004 NLCS.  One of the greatest moments (and reactions - the double fist pump) in Cards history.  So long, Jimmy Ballgame!!  

I'm as big a fan of Edmonds as anyone -- I think LB's nonchalance does not do justice to the excitement JEd brought to Cards fans, not to mention the hardware.  But he was not going to be with us after 2008.  Assuming we use the money we're saving (not yet announced, but must be $5-6M) on adding to mid-term nucleus, this is a good move.  But I don't think it's Tony's move.

I am curious about the plan for the OF now:  under Tony you basically have 1.5 OFs in Ankiel and Duncan.  If Rasmus isn't ready, where's your backup?  Are we really going to platoon Spezio, Ludwick, Shu and/or Barton?  I still think pitching has to be the priority for what looks like ~$15M in payroll room, but that outfield is looking pretty suspect.

I'll preface this by saying that Jim Edmonds is my favorite current Cardinal and maybe my favorite Cardinal of All-Time so this trade is a huge emotional blow and I know I am not alone in Cardinal nation.

Yes, this trade makes room for Colby Rasmus, but the timing is horrible. Mo trades Edmonds at his lowest value and after a series of injuries.

I'll repost part of my comment from the "So Long Jimmy" and comparison with Paul Molitor.

Jim Edmonds should have been given the opportunity to bounce back after getting hit hard with injuries and resume his off season training. it was obvious that his legs were out of condition during Spring Training after having to take time off during the surgeries.

At age 37 and beyond, there are many cases of players coming back to have big years.

Age 37  .351/.422/.612
Age 38  .337/.423/.528

Who is this player?

Stan Musial.

Paul Molitor slumped to .270/.350/.423 at the age of 39 and then came back at age 40 to hit .341/.390/.468.

At age 38 Molitor hit .341/.410/.518. Edmonds and Molitor both had injury plagued careers and in the Brewers case were haunted by not re-signing Molitor.

OK, you can also make the case Edmonds won't come back and will have another mediocre year, but Edmonds has earned the chance to make a comeback. Now what the Cardinals have done is broken up the big three of Rolen, Pujols and Edmonds and have thrown in the towel for 2008.  

All this trade did was officially end the DYNASTY that began in 2004 and start a full blown rebuilding project.  Edmonds should have been allowed to retire as a Cardinal and the Cardinals DYNASTY should have been given one last chance to continue.  

Now, from a team perspective, I'm not sure how important that production would be, as I, like Larry, am fairly convinced 08 is a wash of a season.  We are very unlikely to compete for a playoff spot.

That said, I believe that it makes a whole lot more sense to keep Jimmy and allow him to re-establish some of that value.  In such a case we might have mustered a Larry Walker-like trade (3 prospects) around the trade deadline from a team looking to improve for their playoff run than we would have now.

So why did the Cardinal's trade Jimmy?  In the scenario I mention above, while the Cardinals make out better in prospects...they don't make out as well in salary relief.  As I see it, this is the same reason they passed up on Rick Porcello.  When it comes to the question of talent versus savings, this team has become increasingly cost-concsious.  And that doesn't bode well in my opinion.  D.GOOCH

The fact that the Cardinals got a decent third base prospect for him--one of the weaker positions in the system, might I add--seals the deal for me. We can argue about this if Mo goes and blows this money on Kyle Lohse, but I think this was a good move. It'll just be a huge adjustment to watch somebody else patrol center next year.

yes, he was probably the best CF in Cardinal history.

but from 8/1/06 to the present, jed has hit for a .736 OPS. and he's lost a step or five in the OF. i love jimmy ballgame...a lot. but it was either another season of him being below average in cf for about 100 games, or a chance to get a half decent prospect. that's the best they could probably get for him.

it's better then nothing, it's better then just watching the decline phase of jim run it's full course. to me that's just as sad to see. those of you calling for mo's head and whatnot are being totally unreasonable.

i hope you still have a lot of fun and great baseball in you, playing in your backyard. you deserve it.

... come back to StL as a coach or manager.

Now hitting leadoff, Skip Schumaker.

The moment he said payroll would go up to $115 M, I knew that it was the first sign of a massive salary dump.  Which is what makes the Izturis signing so incredibly stupid.  Why pay Cezar the Suck $3.5 M if you are going to sell off parts to save dollars elsewhere?

If Skip Shumaker is on the opening day roster and Colby Rasmus is not, then DeWitt isn't trying to field the best team possible..he's trying to save the most dollars possible (keeping Rasmus controlled longer).

So I can only hope that Mo has some sort of plan to make this a decent team next year. He now has the money to do it, so let's just hope he makes a move before everyone's taken. (and please don't let it be lohse).

stlfan

The whole origanzition from the front office all the way to the Quad Cities farm team is quite frankly is in a state of disarray.

A few points to back this up.

1. The front office lies to it's loyal fans about various promises from adding "impact players" to getting a top on the rotation pitcher.  Then they also have the nerve to raise the ticket prices and yet are going to field a team that will be lucky to finish 4th in what has been one of the worst divisions in baseball.
2. You have LaRussa and Rolen fighting and making headlines like baseball's version Donald Trump and Rosie O'Donnell. Instead of making good headlines at the winter meetings about the Cards improving their team somehow, we just got a bad soap opera.
3. They fire Jocketty and then go one this big search for a replacement and settle for the in-house guy in John Mozeliak mostly because the more attractive main canadates out there wanted nothing to do with the management politics going on right now.
4. They trade a huge fan favorite in Jim Edmonds for basically nothing.  Granted Jim was at the twilight of his career and probably wouldn't have put up huge numbers, but going with him to San Diego was the chance for a great farewell party and some special events in 2008 that they could have maketed similar to what the Astros did last year for Biggeo. This would have guaranteed some big crowds in late Spetember and gave the fans something to look forward to at the end of the season. Not to mention his leadership to the team and valuable mentorship that he could have given Ankeil & Rasmus.  

I hope my view changes in the coming year.

Let's say Rasmus is given the CF job.  Let's say they trade Ankiel or Duncan.  Hell, let's say they don't trade either.  The A's are out of the Bonds running.  The only other rumored team was the St. Louis Cardinals.

So, let's say Bill DeWitt takes Edmonds $7 M and gives is to Bonds.  The lineup changes over dramatically:

Ramsus CF
Bonds/Duncan LF
Pujols 1B
Ankiel RF
Rolen 3B
Molina C
Kennedy 2B
Pitcher P
Ryan/Izturis SS

With Rasmus on the team, we don't need a leadoff hitting SS..which makes Izturis even dumber of a move (if that is a word).  You could have had Everett bat 8th and play SS and save us runs on defense.

Anyways, back to Bonds.  There is an opening now in the OF where the offense can be improved.  If they are serious about giving Rasmus the CF job, then Bonds makes some sense from an offensive standpoint.

What irks me the most is this team had two strengths (a glut in the OF and a glut in the bullpen).  John Mozeliak found a way to give away one of our OF for nothing in return.  How do you give away from a strength and get nothing for it?

What if Jim Edmonds doesn't want to retire after this year? Would you advocate throwing yet another contract at him, even though Rasmus is arriving?

People talk about him retiring here as if this was definitely his last year. I'd love to see Jimmy finish here too, in a sort of vague emotional way, but the reality is that keeping him around after this year would be insanity given our current glut of younger and equally talented outfielders. So why pay him the money this year when we're not going to pay him anything the year after? He's not going to take a $1 mil contract in 2009, and the Cards giving him anything more would be stupid.

I love Edmonds. He was my favorite Cardinal. I have his jersey. But this move makes nothing but sense. It would be one thing to keep him around if he said he was going to retire after '08 -- that way he could finish here, sure. But he hasn't said that (or even begun to suggest it), and it would be impossible for them to justify keeping him beyond that from a baseball standpoint. Save the money now, bid Jimmy a fond farewell, and give the man a roaring ovation every time he comes to the plate in Busch III as a Padre.

Daric Barton
Kiko Calero
Brett Anderson
Greg Smith
Dana Eveland
Carlos Gonzalez
Aaron Cunningham
Chris Carter

TIMMMY K said that if guys take cortisone they are heroes but if they take HGH they are villians but its not that much different..ok that shocked me then he basically later said they are not like cortisone but not steroids...

OK HGH is legal through a doc right? so the question is did he get it from a doc..yes different from steroids but if he got it from a doc its somehwat different than oh say just shooting it.

the blues traded weight (again).

two of my fav stl'ers gone in one day weird, just weird

(sorry about the hockey)

Let's hope he hangs in there for 3 more seasons and builds the HOF resume and that he goes in with a Cardinals hat.

Thanks for the memories Jimmy Ballgame