Gold Gloves are out (No Cardinals
Dear Diary,
Can you please tell me how to pick the wrong people for Gold Gloves?
C: Ivan Rodriguez, DET
1B: Kevin Youkilis, BOS
2B: Placido Polanco, DET
3B: Adrian Beltre, SEA
SS: Orlando Cabrera, LAA
OF: Torii Hunter, MIN
OF: Grady Sizemore, CLE
OF: Ichiro Suzuki, SEA
P: Johan Santana, MIN
NL
C: Russell Martin, LA
1B: Derrek Lee, CHC
2B: Orlando Hudson, ARI
3B: David Wright, NYM
SS: Jimmy Rollins, PHI >
OF: Aaron Rowand, PHI
OF: Andruw Jones, ATL >
OF: Carlos Beltran, NYM >
OF: Jeff Francoeur, ATL
P: Greg Maddux, SD
Derrek Lee? Jimmy Rollins? Why even have defensive metrics?
0 recs |
50 comments
Comments
Martin isn't a bad defensive catcher
by Alxfritz on Nov 6, 2007 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the eyes
by erik on Nov 6, 2007 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i believe you mean morans
by nycbirdo on Nov 6, 2007 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wha?
1usually offensive : a mildly mentally retarded person2: a very stupid person
by erik on Nov 6, 2007 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Leave me out of it.
Any team in arbitration with a player whose agent points to a former gold glove and says: "See! He's great!" can now make talky-mouths with the hand and ask why Yadier can make talky-mouths without a gold glove getting in the way.
I'd make a better joke, but Yadier losing out on the GG really makes it pointless.
by liam on Nov 7, 2007 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What a rip off...
by Red Blazer on Nov 6, 2007 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Russell Martin
What a Joke!
by whatapartier on Nov 6, 2007 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DLEE
When Lobros did his post for today and showed the defensive rankings DLEE was not in the top ten.
How did he win the GG?
by ICbirdfan on Nov 6, 2007 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Awful
D. Lee
FPct .994
RZR .724
OOZ 24
Helton
FPct .999
RZR .808
OOZ 42
Pujols
FPct .995
RZR .843
OOZ 51
Helton and Pujols also both have considerably more putouts and assists than Lee. Helton had a grand total of 2(!) errors this season. Lee had 7, though Albert had 8. Adam LaRoche and Conor Jackson were also better than Lee in most defensive categories. In fact, Lee runs neck in neck with Ryan Howard in most categories, who is considered by most to be a butcher in the field.
I don't get it. Martin isn't a great defensive catcher either, he's not even in the same league as Yadi in that respect. And through for some reason people still think Wright is a premier defensive third baseman, his numbers really slipped this year, a number of NL third basemen performed much better defensively.
These awards are a joke.
by stl tyler on Nov 6, 2007 5:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Covering my own back
by stl tyler on Nov 6, 2007 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And for SS
This must be because his zone is smaller than those of Edgar Renteria, Jack Wilson, Rafael Furcal, Khalil Greene, Troy Tulowitski, Alex Gonzales, Jose Reyes, and Omar Vizquel.
Should have gone to Troy or Omar.
by stl tyler on Nov 6, 2007 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Rollins
Albert probably cost himself the GG because he is so aggressive. Albert made a few stupid throwing erros this year. He seems to like to throw more than most 1B and he tends to have a couple throwing errors each year.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 6, 2007 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His RZR
by stl tyler on Nov 6, 2007 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is No Secret that this is one of the worst
Even the fans (including ballot stuffers) could do a better job. It is just a shame that such a historical award is rendered virtually meaningless because of how poorly it is administered.
Could we ever have a Sabermetricians Gold Glove Award based purely upon an agreed upon statistical method, just like a batting title so the race can be charted during the season?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 6, 2007 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
GG criteria
- Be a household name
- Be good offensively
- Just be in the top 8 fielding at your position.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 6, 2007 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't they already have one?
(and it's probably just as useful as batting average for calculating who the gold glove winner is...)
Sarcasm off, I'm actually more upset over martin robbing Yadi than I was about Howard robbing Albert for the MVP last year.
by SleepyCA on Nov 6, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on Sleepy, I know you can do better
FP is certainly not good enough since it leaves to judgement the "official scorer" that nobody ever sees. And there does seem to be a correlation that players with the least range make the fewest errors (although I can't prove that). There are too many park, pitcher, team mate effects to make a simple formula. Maybe Sig Mejdal has one.
One would think that at least one of these website stathead outfits could try to adopt some formula and test it against the annual award voting. I would love to see it.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 6, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tough
We know the guys who are awful defenders: Ryan Braun, Pete Incaviglia, Todd Hundley....
When it comes to ranking the best it is really tough. What is the real difference between Troy Tulo, Omar Vizquel, Yadi, Pujols, DLee..
All these guys are very good and it is really hard to say who is better.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 6, 2007 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you missed my sarcasm tag ;)
Anyway I think the problem with sabermetric fielding tools (not that I have any kind of actual expertise or insight, lol) is that there really isn't one that has achieved widespread acceptance. Fwiw the blog "on baseball and the reds" has a good series of articles about some of the different statistical tools in development. One will probably eventualy be developed that "works" better than the others, and it will achieve widespread acceptance, and there will be great joy.
Fun discussion here: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/mlbc25/
Also sponsoring Famous Warrior, btw.
by SleepyCA on Nov 6, 2007 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the link to baseball on the reds
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 6, 2007 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a shame, though
To be fair, Yadier probably missed too much time. Still, how many millions of dollars did Yadier lose the past 2 seasons because the Gold Glove voters knew Russell Martin's name better?
by sjoshi on Nov 6, 2007 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to be blunt
by El Capitan on Nov 6, 2007 5:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I swear
I know we had a pretty bad year, but man you would think the Cardinals were playing in Iceland with no media coverage what so ever when it comes to stuff like this.
by KYCards on Nov 6, 2007 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Insane!
I was sitting right behind home plate, and this was the third steal attempt by Harris in the series. Yadi nailed him all three times, with this one being the third. I had to go home after the game and check the highlights to make sure I really saw what I thought I did. Amazing play - best I have ever seen live from a catcher.
by wildman on Nov 6, 2007 6:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What a butcher job
by joker24 on Nov 6, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the people who deny the big city bias
all you have to do is point to the fact yadi has zero gold gloves
its pathetic and cheapens the award
and albert makes plays no other first baseman does
he plays more aggressive and turns the double play like no one else ive seen at first in a long time
by benstl on Nov 6, 2007 6:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brad Ausmus
First it was an east-coast bias and now it's a major city bias? OK.
by chuckb on Nov 6, 2007 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it when
Really?!?
That gets you a GG?
It's not the least days missed award.
by Harknights on Nov 6, 2007 7:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Attendance is Mandatory! I keed.
by Red Blazer on Nov 6, 2007 7:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
From the LA Times
I believe a catcher gets credited with a putout for a strikeout. The Dodgers had 1184 strikouts this year, the Cards had 945. So two of those stats are meaningless. And Yadi had 8 DPs, or 1 every 106 innings, where Martin had 1 every 114. The other comments have been debunked above. It's very hard to justify this award except by Martin's offense, which admitedly looks great for his position.
by Secret Weapon on Nov 6, 2007 7:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
145 games is legitimate
Yadi's the best defensive C in baseball; most everyone knows that. But those who pretend that Martin stinks and didn't earn consideration for the award are silly. Martin's CS% was the highest in the NL (tied) among C w/ 900 + innings.
by chuckb on Nov 6, 2007 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by cardsgirl95 on Nov 6, 2007 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who votes for them?
Why do we expect them to get it right? They don't do a very good job (along w/ the players) in the All-Star game.
People are calling this a "disgrace" and "an absolute joke" that Martin won it. He's not the best but he's not completely undeserving either. Maybe if Yadi plays 125 games or 130 next year, he'll win it. I just don't see the point in getting all worked up about it. It doesn't really change anything.
by chuckb on Nov 6, 2007 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
And I do think there is a point "in getting all worked up about it". The Cardinals (like most teams) give their players bonuses for major awards. Yadi has been cheated out of that bonus two years in a row now. And Gold Gloves are the type of awards that look good on a player's resume.
by cardsgirl95 on Nov 7, 2007 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again...
by Mrthe2th on Nov 7, 2007 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what a joke
by gdm426 on Nov 6, 2007 10:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
As long as Martin stays healthy
Especially now with Torre in LA the media will be covering the Dodgers alot more. And Martin will be in the spotlight.
So I would say Yadi is out of luck of winning a gold glove anytime soon.
Face it Martin is the up and coming star and is the "sexy" pick for alot of the voters. So as much as I hate it, Yadi is probably shut out of this award for a few years at least.
by KYCards on Nov 6, 2007 10:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well,
by dunc4life on Nov 6, 2007 11:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
...And Fielder hit 50
by joker24 on Nov 7, 2007 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I may sound like a teenager right now
Rawlings HQ is located less than a mile from me. I say we fucking write a presentation and I'll personally print it and hand deliver it.
by rocKStark5 on Nov 7, 2007 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
awards
In 06 I could care less about all the awards as the Cards got the best award in MLB.
Wait till next year! maybe??
by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
GG's
surprised though that martin won and not ausmus again..
by punchinjudy on Nov 7, 2007 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
a couple things
in my opinion, that shows how incompetent they are when voting
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 7, 2007 1:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dear Voters
But Jeter didn't win the AL...About damn time. Its a joke when the player who wins the GG for shortstop has less range than the base to his immediate left...not the player, the fucking base. I bet the left field foul pole had a higher range factor than Jeter did this year.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 7, 2007 3:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Question of the hour
That should make a pretty clear determination of how bad the voters are. My guess is Braun finished 2rd or 3rd for NL first basemen.
by JMedwick on Nov 7, 2007 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs




















