troy for ROY
over the next few days we'll be announcing the results of the 2d annual SB Nation baseball awards. same rules as last year: each blogger gets one ballot and votes only for the league his/her team plays in; in addition, one non-SB Nation blogger for each team gets a ballot (erik manning of Future Redbirds, in the cards' instance). apparently not everybody exercised their right to vote, because there were only 40 ballots cast (out of a possible 60) in the rookie-of-year polling, which is posted herewith. a 1st-place vote is worth 5 points, a 2d is good for 3, and a 3d is worth 1. the tallies:
| National League | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | Points | American League | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | Points | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ryan Braun | 13 | 6 | 2 | 85 | Dustin Pedroia | 15 | 4 | - | 87 | |
| Troy Tulowitzki | 7 | 9 | 3 | 65 | Jeremy Guthrie | 1 | 6 | 2 | 25 | |
| Hunter Pence | - | 4 | 9 | 21 | Brian Bannister | 2 | 2 | 4 | 20 | |
| Kevin Kouzmanoff | 1 | - | - | 5 | Daisuke Matsuzaka | - | 3 | 5 | 14 | |
| James Loney | - | 1 | 1 | 4 | Reggie Willits | 1 | 1 | 1 | 9 | |
| Micah Owings | - | 1 | 1 | 4 | Delmon Young | - | 1 | 3 | 6 | |
| Chris Young | - | - | 2 | 2 | Hideki Okajima | - | 1 | 1 | 4 | |
| Yovani Gallardo | - | - | 2 | 2 | Rafael Perez | - | 1 | 1 | 4 | |
| Tim Lincecum | - | - | 1 | 1 | Travis Buck | - | - | 1 | 1 | |
| Rafael Perez | - | - | 1 | 1 |
my ballot went 1. tulo 2. braun 3. pence. it was hard not to list braun #1, given his pujolsian rate stats (.324 / .370 / .634), but in the end i deemed him too one-dimensional --- an elite slugger, but one of the worst fielders in the league at any position. he also spent the first two months of the year in the minors, which was largely his own fault (the brewers didn't trust his glove enough to make him their opening day 3d baseman). pence, too, had better rate stats than tulo but missed 2 months of playing time (one on the dl, one in the minors). i voted for tulo as much for his glove as his bat; he played gold-glove D at the most important position on the field while contributing well above-average offense. like most rockies, tulowitzki had a sharp home / road batting split; he was not nearly as impressive with the bat as braun or pence. but he also was the only one of the three who got better as the year went on; he raised his slugging avg 100 points in the 2d half, while the other two saw their numbers slide as the league adjusted to them. i thought tulo had the most complete year of any nl rookie, contributing at a high level from wire to wire, in both halves of the inning. according to VORP, tulo was 19 runs less valuable than braun at the plate; he almost certainly was 19 runs more valuable in the field.
i don't mean to denigrate braun; he had one of the most eye-catching rookie seasons in recent memory and is a very deserving winner. indeed, he and pence would be slam-dunk winners in nearly any other season, and chris young would have made a deserving honoree in most years. 2007 was an incredible year for rookies in the nl.
here's a numerical comparison of the top 3:
| G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | BI | BB | SB | CS | AVG | OBP | SLG | VORP | WSAB | |||
| tulowitzki | 155 | 609 | 104 | 177 | 33 | 5 | 24 | 99 | 57 | 7 | 6 | .291 | .359 | .479 | 37.8 | 12 | ||
| braun | 113 | 451 | 91 | 146 | 26 | 6 | 34 | 97 | 29 | 15 | 5 | .324 | .370 | .634 | 57.2 | 13 | ||
| pence | 108 | 456 | 57 | 147 | 30 | 9 | 17 | 69 | 26 | 11 | 5 | .322 | .360 | .539 | 40.5 | 11 |
we'll announce manager-of-year awards tomorrow, cy youngs wednesday, and the mvps on thursday and friday. a few more odds and ends:
- david pinto has begun revealing 2007 results for his fielding metric, PMR (probabilistic model of range). yesterday he posted the team-by-team results; the cardinals ranked 21st. per this model, they only made 5 plays fewer than an average fielding team would be predicted to make, which translates into 3 or 4 runs; ie, the model doesn't think the cards' lax D in 2007 was particularly costly. but it was still costly in the sense that defense has long been one of the cards' core strengths; it was a weakness last year. the cardinals ranked #1 in team PMR in 2006; in 2005 they ranked 6th, and the year pinto created this metric (2004) they ranked 1st. we don't need PMR to tell us the defense was significantly worse last season --- most of us has noticed it after a month's worth of games --- but this objective model confirms our subjective impressions and adds a sense of proportion to them. it was a serious collapse.
- sounds like the marlins are pretty serious about trading miguel cabrera. he's entering his 2d year of arb eligibility, meaning he can be a free agent after the 2009 season. any team that wants him for the next 2 years will have to be prepared to give up a package similar to what boston offered for josh beckett two years ago (hanley ramirez, anibel sanchez, and a couple of throw-ins); the cardinals would probably have to offer rasmus + anderson + mark hamilton, and even that might not be enough. if they were better positioned for a run at a championship in 2008 or 2009, i could imagine contemplating that trade, but given the team's current state it don't make no sense. no matter how many runs a cabrera+pujols-powered lineup might score (and it'd be a whole lot), they still probably wouldn't lift the team out of mediocrity this year --- not with all the other deficiencies facing the cardinals (pitching, defense, speed). and after 2009, you lose cabrera to free agency. the odds are against colby rasmus' having even one year as good as cabrera's typical season; nonetheless, rasmus is far more likely to be part of a st louis championship team between 2009 and 2014 than miggy would be in 2008 or 2009.
- yesterday at Baseball Prospectus, john perrotto offered another angle on chris antonetti's pullout: "Cleveland assistant GM Chris Antonetti pulled his name from consideration and parlayed the Cardinals' interest into a contract extension with a sizeable raise from the Indians. . . . Those who know Antonetti insist the only two GM jobs that interest him are the Indians and Washington." in other words, antonetti was never truly serious about the cardinals; he was merely using them for leverage all along. if true, that doesn't make him a bad person; he played that one well (and exhibited the skills that make him such a great gm candidate in the first place). BP has excellent access to the cleveland front office, which employs a former BP writer (keith woolner). perrotto adds, "[R]eports that he has been promised to eventually replace GM Mark Shapiro are inaccurate."
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Antonetti
BJM, I know how you feel
True but...
So presumably there's going to be
If the Cardinals had been as good defensively in 2007 as they were in 2006 this past year, it would have translated to about 40 extra outs or around 3 extra wins. (sigh). . .i miss good defense.
yeah
I voted
braun, tulo, pence. but now that all the defensive metrics are out, i'm thinking i goofed.
Miggy
Besides, with Cabrera likely hitting free agency after 2009 (unless a team like Boston, the Angels, or the Yanks trade for him and lock him up) financial discipline by the Cards in 2008 and 2009 could well pay off in available dollars to make a play for Miguel.
a little horn tooting.....
=============
visits to houses and schools....
i suspect that Antonetti had a good idea of what was going on in the cards house and it was not an ideal situation for him, and the visit to schools and houses with the wife was B) a backup plan in case he decided to take the job, and A) leverage for the Indians to step up to the plate fearing they might really lose him (and making them pay).
Kudos to Antonetti, I wish we had someone that shrewd working for us.
i voted for braun
Cabrera
Miggy
If Mo called Mike Hill and offer Rasmus, Anderson, and Hamilton he hear's 'I get back to you.' However if he offers Molina, Ankiel, and Reyes the conversation keeps on going. That is what it will take to get Miggy.
Now is he worth it? I would have to talk to Cabrera first. He must committ to getting and staying in shape, working on his defense in left field, and signing a long term back loaded deal. Maybe something like 6y 110m.
year $ in millions
'08 10
'09 10
'10 15
'11 20
'12 25
'13 25
Pujols' 16m option in 2011 would have to be declined when the time comes so he can be extended on a 4yr 100m deal. Keeping Pujols' and Cabrera's pay checks in line.
I think this is what it will take. I also think it can be done, BUT SHOULD IT?
He doesn't have to commit to anything
Umm
That's my opinion from a talent perspective but it's arguable. What isn't is that the reason the Marlins would move Cabrera (which I don't believe they will) would because he's entering arbitration -- if they dump him they'll want pre-arb players or prospects close to the majors not another three players headed to arb.
I understand your point
But Molina is just 3 years
There's no way I'd take Molina, Reyes, and Ankiel over Rasmus, Anderson, and whoever. IMO, it's not close. Rasmus and Anderson could be on the field next year if you wanted. When the Marlins trade Cabrera, it will be for the best package of players, not young players who can be on the field the fastest.
BTW, if they would take that package, I'd do it in a heartbeat -- Before they get a chance to change their minds.
Houston
Guayzimmi see how it is done. Houston put me right with solid comments. and I didn't get snippy.
Ok...
That's just silly...
Cabrera will bring a Phil Hughes-type prospect, plus more... not a mediocre, arb-eligible catcher and couple of washed out prospects.
oh
You don't have to get snippy...
when you call someone's idea "silly"
Hmmm...
by cardschinmusic on Nov 5, 2007 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Porcello
not really
Teams can't trade draftees until a year after they sign.
by birdo on Nov 5, 2007 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
SB Nation predictive?
Washington?
by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on Nov 5, 2007 10:56 AM EST reply actions
Personally,
True, Braun has a weak glove,
And, with all due respect to Larry, my vote would have gone to Braun. If he had played a full season, as Tulowitzki did, there's no telling what kind of numbers he would've put up. He and Prince are the present-day version of the Bash Brothers, IMO.
true
Tulo couldn't possibly...
Ryan Braun was ranked the WORST infielder
Think about that for a second.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
How can we figure
win shares does, VORP doesn't
the two enhanced zone rating systems (by david gassko and chris dial) yielded similar results. UZR yielded a slightly smaller gap, placing the two players about 30 runs apart defensively.
it's not often that two contenders for the same award are gonna be that far apart defensively ---- but it is the case this year.
WOW
Sold me - I vote for Troy.
Yeahbut...
Granted Braun had 190 fewer plate appearances...
braun was worth about 20 runs more than tulo
that doesn't account for the difference in playing time. but the award's not for what a guy would have done in a full season; it's about what they did do. once you apply the glove deficit to braun, he's equal to tulowitzki at best.
close call, and you can argue it either way. they're both great players. i'll take the one with the broader base of skills.
Crude math
Runs/162 games: Braun 131 Tulo 109
RBI /162 games: Braun 139 Tulo 104
Total Runs+RBI: Braun 262 Tulo 213
Difference: 49 runs.
So it looks 50/50 to me...
BP also figures FRAA
Braun
If I were the Brewers I would have Braun in winter ball learing to play LF.
He should be a good enough athlete that a bunch of reps out there should help him transition.
His stick is just sick! That guy was absolutely amazing last year.
It must be remembered as well that Tulo came up in 06 and palyed in 25 games, so he kind of got a head start on Braun. Tulo has played 67 more games than Braun. That is about 270 more plate appearances. The funny thing his Braun has more HR, and is not very far behind in all other offensive categoires.
They should move him to LF or RF
Think you are right.
I think
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 5, 2007 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
No no no no no,
great timing!!!!!
Somehow the blog will become about Aaron Miles for some reason. He is the least of the problems. For some reason he takes all the heat as well. May I say Adam Kennedy has taken very little abuse and he was way worse than Miles.
You are right, ICBirdfan, I said
Tulo & Braun
If you want to go on pure upside, Chris Young may be the best of the group.
Is this new?
Rolen has negative trade value
But
Why would people NOT trade Rasmus + for Cabrera?
Does Rasmus have potential? Yes. But Cabrera is a legitimate all star caliber (and extremely YOUNG) player. He is arguably the best hitter in baseball behind Pujols and ManRam. Assuming he gets his weight under control, he'd be an incredible asset to any team.
It's not like we'd be trading prospects for some 33 year old with only a couple good seasons left in him, you are trading them for a guy in his early 20's who has already proven to be one of the best players in the league. Count me as one who'd gladly give up Rasmus , Anderson , and whoever else to get him on this team.
That being said, we can't match the packages that teams like the Yankees could offer, so I don't see us being able to trade for him.
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 5, 2007 1:54 PM EST reply actions
Hmmm
I believe we'd resign him...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 5, 2007 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I believe both he and Pujols have
Hey now...
No, it's a fact
That they wanted to lay together?
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think you missed the point there
God damn
This whole exchange
It was a joke
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 5, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why can't we resign him?
Rolen: $12 M (2010)
Pujols: $16 M (2010-2011)
Carpenter: $14.5, $15 M (2010-2012)
Franklin: $2.75 (2010)
Plus whatever we pay Wainwright and Molina.
I would hope that we could throw $22 M at Pujols and Cabrera both to re-up them both through 2016. Pujols would be 36 years old and Miguel would be 33.
Cabrera has conditioning problems, leading to his weight gain. Remember how we used to have a pudgy superstar hitter who trimmed down and turned into a monster?
The Cardinals have just as much chance to resign Cabrera as anybody else.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I believe Pujols...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 5, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mean we couldn't re-sign him
It's two years of proven commodity...
After 2009 it's going to take 10-12 years at $25-$30 million per to sign Cabrera, which is pretty risky for a guy who is alleged to have weight and attitude problems.
Risk
1. Miguel only stays in STL 2 years.
Manny was once a chubby guy as well and all of a sudden he dropeed about 30 pounds and has been slim the past 3 years.
Miguel Cabrera is only 24 years old, which is 4 years older than Rasmus which is not much. Also Miguel has played 5 MLB seasons and 4 of them he put up all start caliber numbers. I think there is no doubt barring injury Miguel is going to produce exactly like Manny and Albert have. So the only question is will Colby Rasmus be just as good. I find it hard to say Rasmus will be better than.
.313 AVG/.388 OBP/.542 SLG/.938 OPS
Money in the bank or do you want to gamble?
I guess the better question is
There are times when that makes sense, and times when it doesn't...
abstl, i disagree w/ you on both counts
i also don't share your confidene that we'd be able to keep cabrera here beyond 2 years. he's going to command a contract package of $150m or higher; if the cards signed cabrera to one of those after the 2009 season, they'd have to let albert go after 2011. because albert's going to get a-rod money. no way this market can support 2 contracts of that magnitude. indeed, unless i'm mistaken no team in any market --- not even new york or chicago or l.a. --- has ever carried two contracts simultaneously of more than $125m or so.
you'd basically be trading 12 to 18 seasons of low-priced above-average talent for 2 years of high-priced superstar talent. not a trade i would make.
The Yankees of course
But I'm picking up what you're putting down.
ok, i reached
plus the yanks weren't on the hook
The Yankees got ARod...
Nice
If.....
- Miggy says I will stay in STL more than 3 yrs.
- Dewit says I will pay Albert & Miggy 100+ mill
But #1 & #2 are too up in the air.
and i'd modify your number 2
if alfonso soriano is worth $136 million at age 31, then cabrera at 27 will be worth at least $200m, maybe more. and pujols at 31 will be worth $250m.
10 years
31 year old Albert Pujols won't get 10 years. He'll probably get another 7 year contract. Even if he got $27 M, his contract would be $189 M.
Pujols won't be making $30 M+ annually. ARod won't be making that either. No team is going to pay ARod that much and he is in prime physical condition. Pujols has a new leg injury every season (to go with a bad back and an elbow that is about to explode).
Miggy might get a 10 year deal, based on age. He'd probably command 25 M annually. I agree with that.
However, 5 years from now, do you think the Cardinals payroll will still be hovering around the $100 M mark? I don't. Combined, Miguel and Pujols would be making $55 M of a $150 M payroll (or 36%). Pujols and Rolen next year will make up 30% of the team's opening day payroll.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Wanna bet?
He asked for $35 M a year
Who is going to give him $30 M+? Boras pissed of the New York Yankees, who are a necessity for most bidding wars. Despite Theo Epstein's best efforts to needlessly spend more money, it looks like the Red Sox are going to stick with Mike Lowell. The Cubs can't take on that kind of comittment right now as the sale of the club has hit some snags with the FCC (tribune media).
Who is going to offer Alex Rodriguez that much money? The Giants? The Dodgers? The Angels? I just don't see it.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
i didn't say pujols would get 10 years
Manny Ramirez
Carlos Beltran at the age of 27 in 2005 got 7 years/$119 M. (17 M)
Derek Jeter at the age of 27 in 2001 got 10 years/$189 M. (18.9 M).
Alfonso Soriano at the age of 31 in 2007 got 8 years/$136 M. (17 M)
I'm just not understand why you think Pujols' annual pay is going to more than double from his previous top dollar contract? Inflation is obviously a big factor but that's a hell of a lot of inflation.
Maybe Pujols does get double what he already makes and gets $30 M/8 years each. He'd make up 20% of the Cardinals payroll (which if we are counting that much inflation, it's gotta go up to $150 M). Even if Miggy gets 8 years and the $180 M you suggest, they still make up only 35% of the Cardinals payroll.
When people look back at Manny's deal and Beltran's deal, they looked to be burdensome and outlandish but if I told you I could get you Manny Ramirez and Carlos Beltran to play the OF next year for $38.5 M combined, you'd jump at it, wouldn't you?
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
just look at the top guy on your list
i can't think of a single example of a team carrying two obligations over $150m simultaneously. you may think the cards can do that, but unless i'm mistaken there's no precedent for it in a market of any size --- and certainly not in a market of stl's size.
But based on your inflation
And the point is not to pay Albert Pujols in 2012 the $30 M and then for the following 7 years. You save money by spending money. Resign him in 2010. Buyout those final 2 years that are worth $16 M each. Give him $24 M (an $8 M increase for each of those years) and then pay him $30 M for the next 5 years.
The deal works out to be $198 M for 7 years and shave 2 'decline' years off the contract.
Just like if you get Miguel Cabrera, you buy out his 2009 season. He makes $8 M next year. You give him a contract that gives him $15 M for 2009, $23 M for 2010 and structure from there.
Use instant reward as a bargaining tool.
I still think the Cardinals could carry both of the two best RH hitters for the next 7 years payroll wise. And if contracts are going to sky rocket as much as you indicate, then some team will be willing to take on Cabrera's modest $27 M in 2015 to be a DH in the AL.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
still looking for the precedent
everything you've tossed out is theoretical. but there's no real-world evidence to support or contradict the theory. nobody has ever been crazy enough to hand out two contracts like this at 1 time.
something tells me the dewitt-owned cards are not gonna be the first team to test those waters . . .
In reality
I'm headed out but I'd have to believe that the Mets are carrying two blockbuster contracts of 6+ years at some point.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
In quibbling over the
The reality is that, by trading Rasmus for Cabrera, the Cards would also have to choose Cabrera over Pujols -- a big mistake, in my view. Rasmus + Pujols for Cabrera? No way!
I was thinking about this tonight
ARod was signed by Texas in 2001 for $25.2 M annually.
Since then, who has gotten 'ARod' money?
Vladimir Guerrero in 2004 got 5 years/$70 M ($14 M)
Albert Pujols in 2004 got 7 years/$100 M ($14.3 M)
Manny Ramirez in 2001 got 8 years/$168 M ($21 M)
Alfonso Soriano in 2007 got 8 years/$136 M ($17 M).
So even if ARod sets the bar at $30 M per, the liklihood that guys like Cabrera and Pujols make that $30 M total is unlikely.
ARod's average was $25.2 M each year of the original deal. I can't think of anyone besides Manny that even got 5+ years at over $20 M. That's only 4/5ths the contract size.
I think we are vastly overstating the size of the contracts Cabrera and Pujols might get.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 6, 2007 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Not if the
If you can outfit a lineup with young cheap players like Rasmus, then the Cards can afford both Miggy and Albert.
Boras
This reminds me of people sying last year "JD Drew left 33 million dollars on the table???? He's never going to be able to get that much".
Who thought Texas was going to schill out 252 mil??
I did read on Netscape home page
I'm curious as to what teams you think
I don't think Arod wants to play in NY for any
Good points hardcore
- I don't think the Cards will make such a trade until the farm system is deeper.
- Miggy's contract will likely include an opt-out clause.
- If the Cards are really prepared to drop 150 to 200 million on Cabrera, then they needn't trade for him now because they will be competitive when he is a free agent after 2009.
- Keep Colby and the rest of the Cards top prospects.
- Let Rolen play our 2008 and 2009 and see if he gets healthy. If healthy, trade him away after 2009 for prospects.
- Depending on the development of Anderson, trading away Molina for prospects.
- Sign Cabrera in 2009 and fill out the rest of the starting 9 with young cheap talent, because that is the only way in the first 2 or 3 years of the deal the Cards could carry both Albert and Cabrera.
Plus, we can't trade Rasmus for Cabrera
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Can't we clone him?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 5, 2007 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 6, 2007 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
It's a shame
Some feel his only hope of becoming a major-leaguer is to switch positions -- that's dubious at best. In fact, his bat probably won't play well at 3b or LF. But it does play well at C. He's likely a better hitter than Molina already. He'll, of course, never be the defender Molina is but so what? Molina's not irreplaceable. I can appreciate a healthy respect for what Molina offers defensively, but I'm mystified by the fact that so few think that Anderson can be a major-league C, even for the Cards.
The bottom line is that, probably in 2009 if not before, the Cards will have the opportunity to choose from a relatively expensive, excellent defensive C, or a relatively cheap, excellent offensive C. Why we assume that Molina is automatically the better option is mystifying to me.
Untouchable
agree
Miguel Cabrera's prime > Edmonds prime
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
same page
Yeah, but he doesn't play CF...
It would be better to have a league average 3b and Rasmus, than Cabrera and a league average CF.
Well
However I would trade Miguel at this point for Jimmy at his prime any day of the week. Miguel is about 4 years away from hitting his prime. Jim Edmonds will never produce like Miguel baring some major injury to Miguel. Miguel Cabrera is very good and he is errily similar to Manny Ramirez. A guy who is kind of misunderstood at times.
Yes
Finally became a winner?
There is no correlation between # of "5 tool players" and playoff contenders.
I could put up
ok then
That should settle that argument because there isn't one:
'07 Sox - None (Unless you count Drew, and if you do, well, I feel sorry for you)
'06 Cards - I think we can agree this is true
'05 White Sox - definitely not
'04 Red Sox - Damon is the only guy who comes close.
'03 Marlins - not a chance
You are right
This year in baseball
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2007/tyib/index.jsp
3000th Hit for Biggio,
300th win for Glavine,
500th HR for Thome, Thomas and Arod
600th for Sosa
756 for Bonds
Holliday sliding home in game 163
Clemens announcing return (uh ok)
And the one I voted for:
Ankiel Smashing a HR in his return!
Me too.
We're getting gipped in those awards
Yep
Top 50 FA per MLBTradeRumors
- Jose Guillen - Cardinals. Could La Russa keep Guillen in line? He didn't cause any clubhouse problems in Seattle. The Cards could use a right fielder with 25 HR pop, and he might be the only qualifier.
- Kyle Lohse - Cardinals. I was going to put him with the Astros but then remembered Drayton McLane's strong dislike of Scott Boras. The Cardinals are seeking one solid starter. Lohse almost qualifies, in this market.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 5, 2007 2:50 PM EST reply actions
Rotoworld
Roto predicts
Jeff Weaver - Cardinals - two years, $15 million
omg
Jeff Weaver is just a bust, he is so streaky it is not even funny. The Cardinals were lucky he preformed well in the playoffs but I would honestly rather have Marquis than Weaver.
I wouldn't go that far
But predicting Weaver back in STL is not a good call, and $15M is ludicrous anywhere.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 5, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he meant
I was sure he meant $15m/2 years total also
On the other hand, if we picked up his contract and sent him to either the Cubs or the Brewers under the requirement that they have to run him out there every five starts, that could be worth something. I'll bet Boras could write a contract like that, and only the Cards would hold the opt out clause based upon the player to be named later. Who do you think they would offer by August to get out of that deal?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 5, 2007 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
My bad
I agree, $15 mill over 2 years is too much for Jeff Weaver, but I was just pointing out that it's not too terribly overpriced considering the market
Not sure how I'd feel about that one...
The Cards could do worse - but a one year deal would be best.
Weaver
If not, thanks again for '96, but pass.
Where was Weaver in 96?
That's why Fritz
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Just Say No to Weaver at any Price
I think Rotoworld just made this prognostication up for fun.
I'll accept MLDTradeRumors' pick of Lohse as plausible. I think lb thrashed this one a few weeks back. Not a front line starter to get thrilled about, but certainly far more likely to work than last year's try with Kip.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 5, 2007 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
Was it really that long ago? ;)
I distinctly remember it
Osborne was miffed and has vowed never to return to St. Louis until LaRussa leaves. He has come back from time to time for ceremonial things but refuses to be part of the organization.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 5, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
Wait...1996?
Lohse
my dreams of A-rod
so who will drive up the price on who..Boston? NY even though they said they will not enter it..bullcrap if boston enters it..
Been thinking the same
Maybe turning down the extension will end up looking as bad Nomar turning down the Sox.
We can only hope.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 5, 2007 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Boras Bailout
Wouldn't it be fun to see Boras misread this market and have the best player in baseball, his client, see the season start with him not having a job. Because I agree, the only team in baseball that could really afford $35MM/year is the Yankees.
So what would ARod do? Play in an independent league in North Dakota? Go play in Japan?
Probably won't happen as some idiot GM will bail him out again, but it sure is fun to think about.
by Anteus on Nov 6, 2007 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully no bailout
That said, the other advantage of that is the price would come down and become reasonable. He could probably still play a decent SS and could take over for Rolen if he's hurt again.
save the drama for your mamma
schilling and sox close to deal...



















