Now we have three-six years of painful rebuilding to go through.  Hopefully for the better.

People I'd fire in order of culpability if I were Bill DeWitt:

George Paletta
Tony LaRussa
Myself
Dave Duncan
Walt Jocketty

Looks like he went right to the bottom.

Hell, he's the one who signed Franklin and Springer last offseason...

agents like him; Tony likes him.

--B

What is sad about this is that Jocketty is one of the premiere GM's in the league.  I'd say there is a 5% chance that we'll get someone better than him as a replacement, which is crazy.  Why terminate Jocketty if you've got him under contract through '08 if you don't even have a replacement?

I hope Dewitt's got a better plan in mind than what I'm imagining.  

I don't know much about Mozeliak... Give me Antonetti or DePodesta.

I just turned to KTRS right now and their saying nothing.

Has anybody tried KMOX or anything else?

"...tension got to the point is was counter-productive..."

"...division in the organization is well documented in the press....

"lunow is not a candidate for the gm position"

"tony and walt are close.  had a good conversation with tony.  wants dewitt to consider someone with alot of walt's characteristics.  we want tony and his staff back and told him as much."

but okay....you want to get rid of him, you want to change the philosophy and walt's not on board...okay.  fine.  

but i want a plan.  it's one thing to fire someone but something completely different to HIRE someone.  

who are we going to get that is an UPGRADE from walt?  fire walt?  fine.  but who are we going to get that's better.  

i want to see a plan.  and right soon, mr. dewitt.

The  new ownership group is equally as responsible for our success as Tony and Walt, and I thank them, but after listening to that I'm scared.

It's odd.  As I was just driving home, I was thinking to myself, that maybe all along I've been wrong and that LaDuncetty wasn't right to lead this team anymore.  All along I've been saying that if TLR goes (I guess this could signal the start) we will suck for a few years.  But I guess I finally realized that although having TLR around the next 3 or so years will guarantee us maybe an 80-win season as opposed to a 70-win season, we will probably be in better shape after 3 years to move forward.

I'm still pretty shocked/pissed.  I'd much rather Jocketty have left on his own terms.  This is the guy who brought McGwire, Renteria, Walker, Rolen, Edmonds, Clark, Woody Williams, Steve Finley, etc. over to this organization when we needed those parts.  I salute you, Walt Jocketty, and best of luck in whatever you decide to do from here.

that goes for every one who wanted tony&dave gone as well, because they aint coming back now. looks like the reds are going to swoop in and pick up walt tony&dave. good luck with all that guys.

ok, so now what dewitt? whats the plan? we need a GM, Manager & a whole new coaching staff. plus a bunch of new players. whats the plan dewitt? whats the freakin plan?

I do not like this move at all, and its gotta mean that TLR and possibly Duncan are next to head out the door.

Even though DeWitt helped us win a title, he's always making decisions with nothing but $$$ in mind. KMOX, and holding salary despite absolutely raking in the money the past few years are the two primary examples.

Now he forces out one of the best GM's in the game and the architect of that championship team.

No matter how bad this season got, I always felt optimistic bc Jocketty was in charge and had confidence he'd get us back on top in 08....now I fear we are teetering on the edge of falling into a stretch like the early 90's. That is, with an owner who is more concerned with his check book than the product on the field.

At least we have Pujols....right?

Ack. This is bad.

Perhaps a little time to think about it would help. We didn't fire the captain of the Titanic nor did we fire George Washington at Valley Forge.

It will never be as bad as you fear and it was never as good as you remember.

Now - How could we just let Walt walk?  Couldn't we let him go off to other clubs and auction him to the highest bidder (ala Leo Mazonne) along with Dave Duncan (with LaRussa obviously included).  

I know it doesn't happen often, but my read is that we have given up a top 5 GM for nothing.  Not the smartest move in the world if it is avoidable (and I believe Walt's salary is in the $1M range which in itself is below market)...

Anyway - maybe I am just on the crack rock, but in running a business I am not sure why you give up an asset for nothing.

As an aside, if we are going to get rid of Jock why would we replace him with someone who was a virtual clone (which is what Tony has requested).  

Also, everyone is talking organizational shakeup, but of our top 5 or so contracts only Pujols is tradable....  I'm not ready to go there...

This whole thing reeks of an owner ready to fill his pockets while playing the fans as fools.

DeWitt knows he has a good thing going in St. Louis.  There isn't a whole lot of media pressure, the fans of the team are very faithful and will spend tons of cash to see the Cards even if there isn't a good team on the field. Hell just the new stadium alone is enough to bring millions of fans in for the next 2-3 years.

I think DeWitt is going to keep bringing in some "yes men" until he decides to sell the team in 4-5 years, while taking the fans who buy tickets and food at the stadium for all their worth in the mean time.

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't count on the Cards doing a whole lot this off season. Unless DeWitt has a plan (which I don't think he really does) we are in for some pretty bad years ahead.
Cubs/Reds/Brewers fans can rejoice because I don't think the Cards are going to be in the hunt for awhile now.

Fast forward to today.  The O's have just completed their 10th straight losing season, going through GMs with no authority and managers with limited skills.  The minor league system continues to be two years away.  A once proud franchise opens each year with no hope of a winning record, let alone competing for the playoffs.

Hopefully, DeWitt's move fosters an operation that builds talent from within and supplements the team with key acquisitions through free agency or trade & sign.

hate to see walt go, but, if this does really end the divisiveness in the front office, it needed to be done

i wonder if there is any chance of tony staying, just to see what could be done with this team, and get back to the playoffs with pujols?

Dewitt looked at the direction his industry was taking and realized that Walts philosophy didn't jive.

"Was the disagreement about the minors?
A: Yeah, that was pretty much it. I thought we needed to develop more from within, and Jock's approach was different. That led to divisiveness in the org, and wasn't productive."

Basically Dewitt is saying the same things Larry, I and others have been saying: with the sabermetric kitty out of the sack, Walt is having a hard time fleecing other teams:

"Q: Should we do the Cleveland thing, and get young next year, let guys get healthy, and gear up for 2009?
A: Good point, it's hard to make those trades we used to. We could do sneaky things before there was revenue sharing/new CBA, and it's harder to make those deals now. We want to be competitive next year, but we also want to keep developing the youngsters."

It is entirly possible Dewitt goes '98 Marlins on us, but I doubt it.  I think he want a winner and realizes we need to develop talent, not just acquire it.

stlfan

Oquendo is apparently a very good teacher as a coach, which might be a good way to bring in the rebuilding era.  DePodesta seems to know how to get good bargains, much like Jocketty, and might be good to fill some gaps while we work on bringing in the youth.  The guy from the Indians (mentioned above) seems like quite the analytical guy, but I think we have that in Lunhow...but the combo of them might just be even better...who knows.  I have no clue for pitching coach because Cox and his aren't splitting up in ATL any time soon.

I am in shock...but I don't know yet if that is bad.

stlfan

So the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the Rockies (who have the added statistical advantage of taking game 1 on the road) and the Red Sox, and, if things hold, a certain team that's not the Cubs.

Yes, the Mulder trade has looked like crap in retrospect, but I really don't remember ANYONE being mad about that at the time.  Its amazing how things like that happen isn't it?  

No, Kennedy, Wells, Carp's extension, and Edmonds's extension were probably not the best decisions, but once again that is in retrospect.  

I'm really nervous about this upcoming season.  If Tony LaDuncan is gone for an Oquendo/Mason, Miller, whatever group and its a youth movement, we're flat screwed next year.  It will be Albert, Duncan, Waino, and then a rotating crew of AAAAers and bench players.  That is ALL we have MLB ready right now.  Hoffpauir looks decent, Ryan looks to be a solid defensive player, Ludwick has some pop (but isn't exactly a hot stud prospect, he's in his late20s)...but I don't see a Stephen Drew/Mark Reynolds/Hanley Ramirez/Justin Upton/Matt Kemp/James Loney/(insert favorite young stud) in that group.  I see solid players, but All Stars?  Not a one!  I love Rasmus, I think Anderson is intriguing, Garcia will be solid probably, Mortenson is also interesting...but none of them are close yet IMO.  

The only way I see this team being competitive with a new staff in youth movement mode is if Duncan, Reyes, Molina are all shipped out of Dodge for talent, young or otherwise.  We shall see...But point is, I'm nervous, and its 2 am so I have no idea how logical anything here sounded, and don't care...

Good luck Walt Jocketty, I have a good feeling you're going to be getting a call or two not so long after the World Series.

After the firing of Jocketty and the possible departure of La Russa, Pujols isn't likely to be pleased with what he's going to see.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=285393

Unless there is some certified talent spotting genius out there or within the organization, I greatly despair for the near to mid term future of the organization.

While the veteran/free agent approach is expensive, it seems somewhat less foolproof in that major leaguers are more of a known quantity, while even the most highly regarded minor league prospects are still severe gambles.