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team offense projection: ZIPS

in case you missed it, the much-anticipated cardinal ZIPS projections were posted on saturday. pretty lively discussion ensued in this thread, including some sharp exchanges about whether projections are or aren't a complete waste of time. i'd just as soon not rekindle that argument; it gets tiresome pretty quickly. if you think projections don't have any merit, then today's post isn't for you. just move on and come back another day. but fire away if you want to discuss the accuracy of particular projections for individual players. if you think that, say, chris duncan is more likely to slug .557 than the .457 to which ZIPS projects him, have at it --- and take a shot at explaining what factor(s) you think ZIPS is overlooking.

what i'm gonna do today is use the individual player projections as the basis for a guesstimate about where the cardinals stand as a team. pretty straightforward process: i'll make a few assumptions about roles and playing time, adjust the ZIPS figures accordingly, and crunch a few numbers. i did much the same thing last off-season using PECOTA projections and concluded that the cardinals would score about 780 runs (that's the title of the post); they actually scored 781. here's the full guesstimated line, vs the team's actual performance:

AB H 2B 3B HR BB | AVG OBP SLG
projected 5535 1480 288 26 171 548 | .267 .340 .421
actual 5522 1484 292 27 184 531 | .269 .337 .431

i may not be as lucky this time around, and ZIPS may not be as on-target this year as PECOTA was last year; that's all understood. it's also understood that many of the assumptions on which i based last year's forecast (viz. spivey, bigbie, and deivi cruz on the roster) were wildly off-base; no need to point all that out. even with all those caveats, this exercise helped us fumble toward a damn accurate forecast last year; might as well take another shot at it. in fact, i'll probably run the same test again when the PECOTA figures come out (they're due next week), and adjust assumptions as the roster changes and roles are clarified during spring training.

so let's get started. to begin with, we can safely assume (based on current information) that the following 13 players will constitute the core roster:

infielders: pujols, kennedy, eckstein, rolen, miles, spiezio
outfielders: duncan, edmonds, encarnacion, taguchi, j-rod
catchers: molina, bennett

if we take ZIPS' projections for those 13 guys, toss in 300 at-bats for the pitchers (using 2006 league averages for pitcher batting), and add it all up, here's what we get:

AB H 2B 3B HR BB | AVG OBP SLG
pujols 566 181 37  1 48 99 | .320 .423 .643
edmonds 401 105 28  1 24 71 | .262 .372 .516
rolen 481 138 37  2 22 59 | .287 .371 .509
duncan 455 121 22  1 21 55 | .266 .346 .457
encarnacion 442 117 22  2 12 28 | .265 .315 .405
kennedy 440 120 23  3  4 34 | .273 .332 .366
eckstein 514 145 20  2  3 39 | .282 .346 .346
molina 423  98 21  0  8 24 | .232 .273 .338
miles 426 117 17  3  3 26 | .275 .319 .350
rodriguez 333  90 20  3 13 35 | .270 .344 .465
taguchi 305  84 16  1  3 21 | .275 .324 .364
spiezio 277  68 13  2  8 31 | .245 .328 .394
bennett 174  39  8  0  2 16 | .224 .292 .305
pitchers 300  45  6  0  2 10 | .150 .177 .190
TOTAL 5537 1468 290 21 173 548 | .265 .338 .419
2006 5552 1484 292 27 184 531 | .269 .337 .431

per bill james' basic runs created formula (available at this link), this offense would be expected to score about 784 runs --- roughly the same number that last year's offense scored. (note: i added 60 team hbps to the formula, so if you're checking my math or playing around with these figures, include a "team hbp" line in your spreadsheet.) but how can this be? our projection calls for no change in the team's on-base pct, and a 12-point drop in slugging average; shouldn't the number of runs decrease? yes, it should --- but it doesn't because last year's cardinals undershot their runs-created target. the '06 team "should" (per runs created) have scored 804 runs but didn't, due either to random variance or to a deficiency in some offensive component that the runs-created formula doesn't measure. for whatever reason, the whole offense last season was 23 runs worse than the sum of its parts. so even though the 2007 offense does, in fact, project to be slightly less potent than the 2006 version, with a little more efficiency it might score just as many runs.

onward after the jump . . . .

Star-divide

our projected roster makes some patently unlikely assumptions. for starters, we've got a full season's complement of at-bats, but only 13 position players doing the batting; that's bogus. last year 21 (or so) different position players took at-bats for the cardinals, and in most years the number's even higher. there will be injuries, trades, callups; gotta account for that. so we'll add a generic "replacement player" line, which will represent the at-bats that will be taken by this year's iterations of timo perez, skip schumaker, and jose vizcaino. if you're feeling bitter toward the ownership, call it the "DFA line." i'll set the following wild-ass-guess parameters for this parcel of plate appearances: rate stats of .260 / .315 / .370, with one double per 25 at-bats, one triple per 200 at-bats, one homer per 50 at-bats, and one walk per 12 at-bats.

we also have to adjust some of the individual projections to reflect each player's likely role and playing-time allotment. ZIPS might think john rodriguez merits 333 at-bats, and you or i might give him that many, but he's not going to play that much. likewise, juan encarnacion's estimate of 442 at-bats is probably too low; he's been well above that in each of the last five seasons. eckstein will probably surpass his ZIPS-projected playing time, so we'll bump it up; correspondingly, miles probably won't get 425 at-bats.

with these adjustments, the projected stat sheet comes out like so:

AB H 2B 3B HR BB | AVG OBP SLG RC/27
pujols 566 181 37  1 48 99 | .320 .423 .643 10.7
edmonds 401 105 28  1 24 71 | .262 .372 .516 7.2
rolen 520 149 40  2 24 64 | .287 .371 .509 7.0
duncan 455 121 22  1 21 55 | .266 .346 .457 5.8
encarnacion 525 139 26  2 14 33 | .265 .315 .405 4.6
kennedy 440 120 23  3  4 34 | .273 .332 .366 4.4
eckstein 560 158 22  2  3 42 | .282 .346 .346 4.3
molina 423  98 21  0  8 24 | .232 .273 .338 3.2
miles 300  82 12  2  2 18 | .275 .319 .350 4.1
rodriguez 150  41  9  1  6 16 | .270 .344 .465 5.8
taguchi 305  84 16  1  3 21 | .275 .324 .364 4.4
spiezio 277  68 13  2  8 31 | .245 .328 .394 4.5
bennett 174  39  8  0  2 16 | .224 .292 .305 3.1
DFAs 144  37  6  1  3 12 | .260 .315 .370 4.2
pitchers 300  45  6  0  2 10 | .150 .177 .190 1.1
TOTAL 5540 1468 289 20 172 546 | .265 .338 .419
2006 5552 1484 292 27 184 531 | .269 .337 .431

after all that tinkering, our bottom line has hardly changed; this permuatation of the roster projects to 781 runs created, or 3 runs fewer than the unadjusted estimate. you'll note i added a column to this table, runs created per game (RC/27); it suggests that the cards have four good offensive players, one decent hitter on the bench, two terrible-hitting catchers, and about half a dozen interchangeable parts.

to check our bottom-line conclusion, let's feed some numbers into david pinto's lineup toy. it's a much simpler tool, only measuring the production of the 9 starting players. according to it, this lineup

  1. eckstein
  2. duncan
  3. pujols
  4. rolen
  5. edmonds
  6. encarnacion
  7. kennedy
  8. molina
  9. pitcher
would average 4.86 runs a game, or 787 over a full season if they played all 162 games. of course, that lineup won't play all 162; lesser hitters (e.g., taguchi and spiezio) will be taking several hundred at-bats in relief of rolen edmonds and duncan, and so we'd revise our estimate downward by 15 runs or so. but at a rough-eyeball level, the lineup toy gibes with our ZIPS guesstimate. so, too, does the Diamond Mind simulation exercise i cited last week, which employed data from another projection system (CHONE); in that set of trials, the sim-cardinals averaged 769 runs per season.

tomorrow i'll run this same exercise for the pitching staff; it's far more complicated, because there are so many more variables involved.

0 recs  |  Comment 85 comments

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Bennett has an Albert Pujols- like weekend
last year and your predicting he matches AP's stats for the season?

jk but bennett's line should be

.224  .292  .305

for the rate stats

by azruavatar on Jan 8, 2007 9:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

oops
thanks . . . i am shamed-faced

by lboros on Jan 8, 2007 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stats are wild.
I mean, come on.  1 run off for '06?  that's awesome.

by sdrone on Jan 8, 2007 9:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Pythagorean
Using last years runs allowed (762), pythagoras would put the Cards back at about .500. Go back to the 2005 pitching staff (128 runs fewer allowed) and you are back to a .600 club. Split the difference and you are a .550 club. That really makes tomorrows projections interesting. How much can the pitching staff improve from this year to next?

by bdief on Jan 8, 2007 10:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully lots
our rotation was spectacularly awful last year. This is from an interesting THT article. (which could have been a post topic here now that I think about it.)

Per our composite rotation slots:

STL ERA --  #1 - 3.09 #2 - 4.12 #3 - 5.10 #4 - 5.68 #5 - 6.59

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-good-is-your-4-starter

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

THat article
Was a good one.

While Carpenter might (might)regress slightly, I've got to feel like slot #2 will remain about the same if you count Reyes as our #2. Even if Braden Looper is our 5th starter, spots 3, 4, and 5 are almost automatic upgrades, yeah?

Also, I expect the bullpen to chew up more innings this year, as I expect LaRussa/Duncan to treat Reyes and Wainwright's arms as if they were made of porcelin.  Given the stockpile of arms we have and how particular LaRussa is in using them, I think that's an advantage, right?

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 8, 2007 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

60+ fewer runs allowed
Is all that is really needed. But even when accounting for not having Ponson, Marquis et. al. there will still be a need for improvement across the whole bullpen in order to reach that goal. Compare the '05 staff to last year's. The pitching will be better in '07, but how much should we expect?

by bdief on Jan 8, 2007 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just for fun...
Anyone think Mulder will decide today, I got the impression that a decision was coming soon.

Also, as far as free agent long-shots....

Ryan Drese
Jerome Williams

They're both young-ish groundballers.  Drese has a 200 inning season under his belt, Williams has one with and ERA under 4.

Anyone?

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 8, 2007 10:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jerome Williams couldn't
make the Cubs rotation a year or 2 ago, could he?

by sdrone on Jan 8, 2007 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They didn't have room...
with that two-headed monster that was Wood-Prior...  I'm just saying, that with Braden Looper penciled in as our #5, it isn't outside the relam of possibility.
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 8, 2007 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hahahah
Wood and Prior BOTH pitching?   I can't remember which - Wood and Prior either weren't pitching, or were doing spot starts.  

Williams seemed like he'd get a good start, then allow 4 runs in the first.

Cub fans here hated him  - I actually thought he'd do well with the change of scenery.  

by sdrone on Jan 8, 2007 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

are you proposing...
that we offer Jerome Williams 3years and $21 million?  

cuz...

"seemed like he'd get a good start, then allow 4 runs in the first.  I actually thought he'd do well with the change of scenery.."

that could be Jason Marquis.
Hendry, you're a genius!

kidding.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 8, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aren't Wood and Prior...
The career leaders in simulated wins?

by svengali on Jan 8, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

congrats!
This may be the best comment ever written on a baseball blog.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 8, 2007 8:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

williams
williams is a decent option.  i think brad thompson would be better, but it would be nice to have williams hanging around in AAA.

by dmb60614 on Jan 8, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say it again
Jerome Williams bumps our ex-Cub factor to a non-zero number.  We can't risk that.
Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerome Williams
I am a huge proponent for Jerome Williams....

....at the right price.  The latest reports referred to a guaranteed MLB contract would be enough to land him (so far he has just received spring training invites).  I'd pay him the MLB minimum for a few simple reasons:

  1.  He is has a career 4.00 ERA Starter
  2.  He will play next year at 26
  3.  He had a 4.25 ERA for the Cubs in 95 (my guesstimate is that park adjusted for STL we would be looking at a 4.00 equivalent)
  4.  He could be had at ~ $0.4M and if there was upside would be under team control for three years thereafter
Given he pitched horribly in 2006, but, his four year track record before that is 26 and if healthy he could be a heck of a find (not a #1, but I'd say #3 ceiling with a decent #4 probability much cheaper than $7-8M per going rate).  

My master plan would be to offer Jerome Williams a contract along with Kurt Ainsworth and Dewon Brazelton AAA contracts.  

Then, (as I mentioned before) I would try to pry away either Yusmerio Petit from the Marlins (who is 22 and reportedly could be had for a decent RP) and/or Juan Cruz for the Diamondbacks (who is likely an odd man out for the Dbacks).

That would leave us with the following people commpeting for the #5 spot:

  1.  Juan Cruz (electric stuff and 4.2 Coors light ERA, #2 ceiling IMO)
  2.  Jerome Williams (MLB average stuff - think Soup but much younger)
  3.  Dewon Brazelton (Top prospect as recently as 04, 25 or 26 years old with good stuff - excellent dunc project and MRP)
  4.  Brad Thompson
  5.  Kurt Ainsworth (for not particular reason I really like this guy...)
  6.  Yusmerio Petit in AAA - He'll put up the numbers
  7.  Narveson
These guys sharing innings (pitching half games and B games in the spring) would leave us with at least one and likely two average MLB pitchers IMO but would collectively cost ~ $3M.  When you are playing roulette and need to win, get more chips on the table.  

Compare these 7 to signing Trachsel at 1Y, 5M.  I would rather have these seven personally, win or lose.

We won with Chris Carpenter and lost with Brett Tomko, but this would give us a fighting chance of projects.....  

Easy to say if I'm not Dave Duncan!

by Lawless on Jan 8, 2007 7:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...
that sounds about right.  comuters are amazing.
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 8, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Those projections seem pretty on for 2007
but I have a sneaking suspicion that either Rolen or Edmonds, coming off their respective surgeries will have a resurgence in power.

For Edmonds, that projection has him mainting his current HR rate, which he had with his bad left shoulder.

If you go off his 3-year average (which does include his MVP-esque 2004) he is more likely to hit closer to 30 HRs in ~400 ABs if healthy.

Rolen really is a crap shoot.  Is he going to be able to resume weight training this off-season and build strength back in that shoulder or will he maintain his current contact over power approach.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 8, 2007 11:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

5 Runs per game
There is an outside chance that the Cards can score 5 runs per game.

Can ANYONE tell me what percentage of teams make the playoffs when they score 5 or more runs per game??????????

Thanks in advance.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Jan 8, 2007 11:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I have to think
that they will score closer to .800. A .405 SLG for Encarnacion would be a massive fall from his career averages. A .346 SLG for Eckstein may even be pessimisstic.

Ugh...they better get some good pitching.

And I would be all for Jerome Williams.

by ryanisforever on Jan 8, 2007 11:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

What is all this talk about Jerome Williams??
Good grief, people, is this what we've come to when it comes to starters?  Heaven help us.  
Cards fan in Denver

by TurdFerguson on Jan 8, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was messing around with that lineup toy
yesterday. Seeing what would happen if I used some R/L splits in place of a few of the outright ZiPS. Which is statistically dishonest in several ways, but I was bored.

The impetus was that Duncan, Edmonds, and Kennedy, to some extent, crushed right-handers last year, and were miserable against southpaws. I bumped their ZiPS by as much as their career lines differ against RHP/LHP. I sat those three guys and replaced them with the ZiPS from Miles, Gooch, and Marrero against RHP.

So with a lineup facing right-handers of: Eckstein, Duncan, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Juan, Kennedy, Molina, and P, I'll call this lineup A.

RPG vs. RHP - 5.14

with the replacements of Miles, Marrero, and Gooch against left-handers, lineup B,

RPG vs. LHP - 4.66

I gave lineup A 120 starts, and lineup B 42 starts

Lineup A - 617 runs
Lineup B - 196 runs

total - 813 runs

Then I tried replacing Taguchi with Craig Wilson (I used his career line against LHers), and Encarnacion with JRod.

Lineup A - 630 runs
Lineup B - 205 runs

total - 835

Edmonds still hit right-handers to the tune of a .947 OPS last year, Duncan, we all know, destroyed them at a rate over 1.000, in this projection I used about a .920 for Duncan, and a .930 for Edmonds. Definitely within reach. For Kennedy I only bumped his OPS by 23 pts. I would expect better from him though given his career numbers, and the league and park switch, if I'm thinking about all that correctly.

I added Wilson and JRod just for fun because those are two things that I would like to see happen. Obviously, we can't carry a gazillion outfielders unless Marrero is carried over Bennett--which I don't see happening.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 11:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Why .860?
He did this to RH in 2006:

318  .390  .644 1.034

by ryanisforever on Jan 8, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because
ZiPS projects him at about an .800 OPS next year. So, I took that and gave it the same improvement that his career OPS gets versus his righty split. (21 pts of OBP and 32 pts of SLG--.852 was the actual number I used, and I wouldn't be surprised if he outperformed that. Although conversely, I would also be mildly relieved--or just fine with it--if he held that down for 450 ABs. He's never OPS'd higher than .866 in the minors, and the only split I can find has him at .895 vs. RHP in the PCL.)

I am sure there is a better way to do it, but that was the quickest way I could think of to stay true to the ZiPS and squeeze a split out of them at the same time.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Statistics help needed
Larry, if I've understood your comments about last year correctly, the Cards SHOULD have scored 804 runs, given our hits, OBP, SLG, etc, but instead scored about 781 runs.  That's a 3% variance.  Given the sample size (5500 ABs), I have to believe that's statistically significant, but maybe someone here can confirm.

If it is st. sig, then "random variance" can be removed from the possible causes, and I think you have a very interesting inquiry: given the amount of data, and therefore the reliability of these projections, why did we underperform so badly last year.  Was it management, lack of clutch hitting, something else?  And then there's the most important question: whatever the conclusion, are we doing something to correct for it this year?

by Secret Weapon on Jan 8, 2007 12:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

it's a margin-of-error issue
the runs-created formula doesn't purport to pinpoint exactly how many runs a team will score; there's a natural range of variation, which i think is on the order of +/- 4 percent. so the cards' 23-run disparity falls within that margin.

fwiw, in 2005 they outscored their runs-created projection by 12 runs or so (or about 1.5 pct).

by lboros on Jan 8, 2007 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, projections are great,
but this game is still played by humans!  I think that +/- 4% is pretty good when trying to predict how well humans will play a game.

by silent_bob on Jan 8, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember, Secret,
that, from what I understand, basic runs created does not take into account baserunning errors, taking the extra base, base stealing (plus other factors that I cannot think of right now).  This is why Larry talks about more "offensive efficiency" giving us a better chance to meet projections of runs created.  

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, please.

by silent_bob on Jan 8, 2007 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm sure it doesn't consider...
... TLR's play-calling either, such as squeeze plays, hit-and-runs, sacrifices, etc. TLR has a higher proclivity for these sorts of high-risk plays than other managers, so it could end up costing the team runs over the course of the season. if so, the Cards' projected runs (if they played "Billy Beane ball", never intentionally giving up an out) might account for some of the variance.

then, when you consider that one of TLR's goals every Spring is never to use the same line-up twice, it gets even harder to predict perfectly. to wit, even if we knew everyone's exact ABs and exact production, it still wouldn't necessarily give us a true result, because these line-up toys assume a specific batting order, which TLR deviates from constantly. in some cases, it might not matter much, but it could have some effect.

by kindred on Jan 8, 2007 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kindred your post got me thinking
about how well documented the Moneyball A's failures in the postseason are.  I mean, in a 5- or 7-game series, an inability to create runs gets magnified.  

Like you said, it may cost some runs when averaged across a 162 game season, but it pays dividends in the playoffs.  

IMO, that's where Moneyball falls short - in the postseason.  You can rely on OBP all you want, but when your guys can't go from 1st to 3rd, you're not going to win the Series.

by silent_bob on Jan 8, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yes -
he admits that.  One of his chapters starts with something like "My shit doesn't work in the playoffs."

by sdrone on Jan 8, 2007 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If I were a manager I'd
use a moneyball philosophy as the foundation of my thinking, but I would not just abandon all the classic "run manufacturing" techniques.  I would bunt, hit/run, etc. sometimes, not because I really believe they are the best ways to score, or because I enjoy giving away outs, but to avoid being predictable to my opponents, and because I think the players ought to have some practice doing those things, since they might need them to win a playoff game.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 8, 2007 4:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2 huge misconceptions about "Moneyball"
#1.  Moneyball is NOT about maximizing OBP, college draft picks etc.  It is about exploiting market inefficiencies.  At the time it was written, the Scott Hattebergs could be had for nothing because OBP was far far far undervalued with comparison to BA/power; that is no longer the case and Moneyball is no longer about that either.  Take a look at their roster, is there really a true OBP-only guy like they picked up before?  Take a look at their drafts, lined out with HS HS HS HS (in fact before the '05 draft, I successfully bet a friend on 10:1 odds that they would, in their first 5 picks, draft 3 high school players)  The attributes outlined in "Moneyball" are no longer moneyball.

#2.  Oakland's playoff success was NOT a result of their inability to produce runs.  

Just setting some parameters: the average playoff game scores 8.57 runs, meaning that 5+ runs should be enough to win, 4 gives a good chance, 3 leaves a chance but not really, 2-1-0 is not getting it done.

In '03 they scored 5, 5, 1, 4, and 3 runs in their five playoff games.  That's not overwhelming by any means, but that is enough to win a series.  Their pitching was the bigger problem.

In '02, they scored 5, 9, 6, 2 and 4 runs.  That should've been more than enough to win a series.  Their pitching failed them.

In '01, they scored 5, 2, 0, 2, and 3 runs.  Their offense actually failed them.

In '00, they scored 5, 0, 2, 11, and 5 runs.  3 very good, 2 horrible.  Pitching was the bigger problem.

Draw from all that whatever conclusions about the A's that you want, just understand that saying "manufacturing runs is what cost the A's" isn't true.

Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't stop thinking about
that series the A's played against Boston a few years back, and the inning when both Eric Byrnes and Miguel Tejada refused to score, and the A's ended up losing the game by 1 run, and ultimately the series. It knocked the A's out of the playoffs and provided grist for the mill for the anti-Moneyballers, even though it was plain old on-field stupidity that was to blame.

It was also one of the most unforgettable innings I've ever seen.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 8, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really wish he would of slid
And I believe that 'he' was a Giambi brother not Hatteberg.

I never would've had to hear how great a play that was, how great Jeter was for making it, how great Jeter was for being on the field, how great Jeter is, how great Jeter made the flip, how great Jeter looked after he made the flip, how great Jeter was when he went back to the dugout after the flip, how great that flip by Jeter looked and the general greatness of Jeter.  Also wouldn't have to hear [as much] GroupThink garbage about "Moneyball" probably.  

Why oh why did you not slide Jeremy Giambi?

Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 8:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
We're talking about 2 different series here.  But yeah, that's another baserunning blunder what done them in.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 8, 2007 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
I read Kindred's post about the flip then had that anger in my head.
Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i never said it was...
... and i never cited Moneyball. i talked about the "Billy Beane approach", which includes not giving up outs voluntarily through sacrifices, SB attempts, "moving the runner over", hit-and-runs, etc. i never said anything about OBP or drafting college players. i wasn't talking about the markets. i was talking about Beane's generaly philosophy on how to play the game. and his philosophy, generally, is favored by sabermetricians.

not only does his "shit not work in the playoffs," i doubt it'd even work in the National League. when pitchers have to bat (or a PH who is usually not as good as a starter), you have to be able to improvise some. i think TLR usually does this pretty well. in addition, when you eliminate the DH - an XBH slugger usually - the likelihood of the proverbial "three-run homer" becomes less likely.

but TLR sometimes guesses wrong; there were a fair number of botched squeezes this season, and plenty of botched hit-and-runs also. if TLR generally took a less-aggressive strategy, the team might've scored more runs. they might've scored fewer. of course, it's impossible to know for sure.

you're right, tho: the A's failure in the playoffs really has nothing to do with Moneyball. in nearly every playoff series they've been in since Beane took over, the team has simply been out-manned. and, were it not for Jeter's nice play (and Hatteberg's inexplicable decision not to slide into home), their recent history might be pretty different.

by kindred on Jan 8, 2007 6:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The one thing I noticed
was that the actual walk number was low.  It was about the only statistic noted in Larry's table that fell below projection last year.  That could account for a few of the "missing" runs.

by ArkansasTravs on Jan 8, 2007 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow, that PECOTA projection
from last year is sick. Well done. I think you've mentioned that PECOTA in the past has been better at projecting offense than ZIPS? I'll be very interested to see your work on this using PECOTA when those numbers come out.

On the question of why the offense underperformed in terms of actual runs scored versus the runs created algorithm, this is just my impression, but it seemed like there was a significant period of time last season when the offense was being carried, to significant degree, by one person - by Pujols when he was healthy, by Rolen and others when he wasn't. Is it possible that the Cards missed a lot of run-scoring opportunities because they frequently weren't able to follow one hit with another? In other words, would insanely good production from one player, but bad performance by others that prevents capitalizing on that production, balance to what runs created would measure at a certain level but which would lead to a lower level of actual runs produced?

by nycbirdo on Jan 8, 2007 12:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I do remember...
...thinking that the 2006 team was minimizing the number of runs they could score. Just thinking of the number of times we had say bases loading and with less than 2 outs and only scored one run or maybe not scoring at all. It might just be that stuff happens. It might be that Juan only wants to keep his head in the game for 2 out of 3 games, that J-Rod is just plain bad at running the bases and Duncan keeps looking over his shoulder for the Bi-planes that were after him when he was playing defense.

by Harknights on Jan 8, 2007 12:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well
he could aways block the bullets with that particle board thingy with the strap on it that helps you learn to use two hands on ground balls. Why he takes that into the outfield with him to catch fly balls with during Major League baseball games, I'm not sure.

we had say bases loading

I just want to say, that when I read that, I heard it in the voice of some Bronson Pinchot character.

Lastly, I agree with all that other stuff you said.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

had to be
the art gallery guy he played in beverly hills cop

he couldnt say axel for any reason

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jan 8, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm begining to think
that Duncan plays the outfield much like I type. Sure we both try real hard but neither of us are that sure what it will look like when we are done. Some good. Some bad. Mostly interesting but for all the wrong reasons.

Bases loading?!? Maybe Pujols will make a Home Runs and we will score 4 points. That's good isn't it?

by Harknights on Jan 8, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Moving on...
be back another day.

by cardsrul on Jan 8, 2007 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Playing from Behind Mentality
I wonder if there are any statistics on how good/bad pitching plays a part on hitting, or vice versa. For example, a team that is always behind may be forced to be more aggressive in either swinging for power, stealing bases, etc -- which either inflates some of these statistics (i.e. more doubles, more strikeouts) or causes an offense to slump because the extra pressure takes them out of their normal game (to make a football analogy, a team with a bad defense can't play conservative offense, and may be more prone to interceptions). Just as a pitcher may try and pitch too fine if given poor run support, I wonder if there are any ways to measure this.

I say that in how Pujols expanded the strike zone to try and increase the offense due to the lack of our normal offense during points of last year, and I wonder if we anticipate a better pitching staff by addition-through-subtraction, then perhaps our offense may improve somewhat simply by having a little less pressure to perform.

by jimstllax on Jan 8, 2007 1:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

very interesting
pujols definitely expanded his zone at times last year, especially in late innings of big games, and there were times that definitely hurt him. not sure if this translates on a larger scale.

by nycbirdo on Jan 8, 2007 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pujols for 48?
wow, thats an insane prediction/projection but i guess it makes sense... so in that vein, if he out-performs his projection he ends up with 55-60 homers?

anyway, i'd take the under on that number in a heartbeat

http://www.royalsreview.com

www.royalsreview.com

by royalsreview on Jan 8, 2007 3:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yep
the optimistic projections are just flat-out gawdy.

.345/.453/.689 R:146 H:200 HR:51 RBI:153 K:50 SB:11/13  

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

49 in an injury shortened season
The guy's ceiling is nonexistant.  Every aspect of his game is trending good over his career.  On-base, power, home runs, stolen bases, defense, walks, strikeouts etc.  Scary good.  The only reason he won't hit 48 is injury in my opinion.
Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Most players
don't regress at 26.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 8, 2007 6:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hall of Fame Debate
    I admit to being repetitive on this one, and I promise to back off, but as this is the eve of the HOF selection, I want to AGAIN mention my desire for Ted Simmons to be enshrined.  There is a good statistical comparison for Jim Rice being given the nod.  So, for all of you stat guru's, just look at how Ted stacks up wth the other HOF catchers.  It seems a no brainer. It is a shame that Ted is not in.  

by Yadier on Jan 8, 2007 4:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Something I just read about Edmonds
from Tim McKernan at insidestl.com (not really defined as a great source, but McKernan and Edmonds are pretty good friends, and I believe Edmonds is part owner in the "insidestl.com" franchise) is that Edmonds just had surgery on his left foot and might not be ready for the opener. ouch.

That and Jim "The Cat" Hayes is no longer on the Morning Grind. double ouch.

by TICY on Jan 8, 2007 4:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
I haven't heard anything about the foot since the season ended; I assumed rest was supposed to fix it.

by sdrone on Jan 8, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I thought he just had turf toe
from not wearing spikes while he was injured.

So does that make a shoulder and a foot surgery?

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 8, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Great Source???
Where else can you get clubhouse access like they offer?

by liam on Jan 8, 2007 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, though
Here's the link... I consider that good news all-around. The healthier Jim Edmonds is for the season, the better. If Jimmy Ballgame's not ready to start the season, I'll be more than happy to see Skip Schumaker (who I still think will be a solid contributor) make the opening day roster or possibly even Reid Gorecki, if he has a good spring. I've heard great things about his CF defense, supported by Jeff Sackmann's play-by-play defensive stats.

The dude hit 17 home runs last season and walked as many times as he struck out vs. LHP while with Springfield.

by liam on Jan 8, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if his foot injury puts more pressure
on signing Wilson as a backup for one of the corner outfield spots.  

I don't think it should (even though I don't mind signing Wilson).   If push comes to shove, put Duncan, Enc and Spiezio from left to right out there on Opening Day.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 8, 2007 5:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't he
the dude that boycotted the media for half of 2006? I thought the team ran out of patience with him and yanked him off the 40-man last month. I'm not really sure though.

In other news, Karim Garcia is attempting a comeback.

HELLO! WALT!?!?

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reid Gorecki boycotting the media?
I hadn't heard anything about that.

Instead of signing either of the Wilsons as our right-handed fifth outfielder... How's this for a crazy idea:

2006 vs. LHP
133AB .323/.387/.549 7HR 14BB:11K

He's a switch hitter who could be had for around $2million if he decides that he'd want to play one more season for a team other than the one he'd been with his entire career. Great clubhouse guy, seasoned veteran, all the post-season experience in the world.

I don't think the idea of him playing elsewhere is considered likely by the entire baseball world, but I could see Bernie Williams playing his last season for the Cardinals.

by liam on Jan 8, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would
like for Edmonds' insurance to actually be younger than him, or even close. Also, I'd be a lot more for that if So Taguchi and his f'ing .686 OPS weren't hanging around. Lastly, Bernie isn't much of a defensive replacement or a pinch runner these days, so it would seem odd to give him that last spot.

All that said, if somehow, and I can't really imagine this happening, picked him up as the fourth outfielder, I would be fine with it. He'd be a better bet than whatever shakes out of the system, which is what we'd be relying on at this point to produce when Edmonds and Duncan aren't in the lineup.

It's not really the best idea but I would also like for the team to look at Trot Nixon, and just reserve itself to making right-handed pitchers pee their pants all year. That's not happening, I know.

Everybody loves Bernie. I'd be just fine with it.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2007 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Jimmy starts the season
on the DL, maybe JRod won't start the season in AAA afterall.  JEnc can play centerfield an JRod can finally 'prove' to TLR he should be playing

by RedbirdRay on Jan 8, 2007 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Simmons was my favorite
player growing up. But he never threw anybody out, and he wasn't the surest set of hands in front of the ump.

OTOH, he could block the plate pretty well. Maybe not as well as Johnny Bench, but that's a different standard.

Imagine how well he would have hit if he had some protection in the lineup.

by Red in Chicago on Jan 8, 2007 4:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

OK, now I'll let it rest. Smile.
Ted Simmons was such a big star for 21 seasons in the majors that it was a shock to many people when the Hall of Fame voters in 1994 gave him less than 4% of the vote and he was thereafter dropped from the ballot. His credentials, as pointed out below, exceed those of most Hall of Fame catchers.

He was often in the All Star game, being named eight times.

As a catcher, he had unusually high batting averages, hitting in the top ten in the league six times. In 1975 he was second in the league. He broke in during the second dead-ball era when averages were low, so his averages mean more than they would today. For instance, in 1972, he hit .303 when the league as a whole hit only .248.

Simmons' lifetime batting average of .285 is tied with Hall of Famer Yogi Berra, and better than Hall of Famers Johnny Bench (.267) and Carlton Fisk (.269). In fact, there is no Hall of Fame catcher who has played in major league baseball since 1950 who has a batting average as high as the .285 that Berra and Simmons share. Some of the players prior to 1950 had gaudy batting averages during the lively ball era, but consider the reality. For example, Bill Dickey, famed for his high batting average, was only in the top ten in the league 3 times (compared to 6 for Simmons), and his highest finish was 3rd (compared to 2nd for Simmons). And Mickey Cochrane has the highest batting average of any Hall of Fame catcher (.320), but was only in the top 10 five times and never finished as high as Simmons' second place finish.

Simmons has 2,472 lifetime hits, more than any catcher in the Hall of Fame. The closest is Carlton Fisk with 2,356. Yogi Berra had 2,150.

Simmons' power was excellent for a catcher. He hit 483 doubles lifetime, which is # 58 on the all-time list. There is no catcher in the history of baseball who was primarily a catcher who has as many doubles as Simmons. Carlton Fisk, in a longer career, had 421, and Bob Boone had 303, Gary Carter had 371, Yogi Berra had 321, and Johnny Bench had 381.

Simmons had 1389 RBI in his career. That total is higher than every catcher in the Hall of Fame, except for Yogi Berra, who had 1430. Yogi, like Simmons, also played several hundred games at positions other than catcher.

Simmons hit 248 home runs in his career. Only four of the fourteen Hall of Fame catchers have hit more. Gary Carter, who had 324 home runs, had a slugging percertage of .439, only two points higher than Simmons, because Simmons had so many more singles and doubles than Carter.

by Yadier on Jan 8, 2007 5:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I tried looking but I couldn't find the projection
for John Edwards and Scott Rollins?  Aren't both coming back?  Both were huge in the postseason for us last year and I hope they can continue that success.  Go Cards!
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 8, 2007 5:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I've been searching ebay
for a Jim Edwards rookie card, but I can't seem to find one. Topps is really slipping these days...

by effin fisk on Jan 8, 2007 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan
I wish I could figure out why just about everyone is so hot on getting rid of Chris.  I understand that his defense was awful but it's still a new position for him.  I'd rather have him stuck out there and get some OJT than back down in Memphis not helping the club.  OBP.363 SLG.589 AVG.293 these numbers look pretty good to me.  I am not going to argue with anyone about this next stat since it's a fact even though I don't expect it to happen again, and don't get me wrong I'm not putting these two in the same categorty but Pujols put one over the fence at a clip of one per every 10.9 AB's.  Dunc put one out every 12.7 AB's.  Maintaining that pace and getting the same AB's as Albert would have put him at 42 dingers.  I am not sayimng he had this power or productivity in Memphis but for everyone on the John Rod boat Dunc's were better down there too.  Let's cut the kid a break, put some faith in him, and see how far he goes.

by DJ4508 on Jan 8, 2007 6:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Groundball Tendencies
Rich Lederer has an essay up at Baseball Analysts that should interest most of the folks around here. He classifies starting pitchers along two dimensions: GB% and K%.

One of the surprising things was how close Jamey Wright is to Jeff Francis by that method. If he could lower his walk rate a bit and pitch with a decent defense behind him, I'm convinced Wright could be a very good pitcher.

by liam on Jan 8, 2007 6:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yeah
that was a good article. Our potential startiung pitchers for 07, using 06 numbers:

(x%, y%)

Carp (21%, 53%) NE Quad
Reyes (20%, 35%) SE Quad, but he could easily move to NE if he masters his split-finger fastball :p
Wainright (23%, 47%) I didn't expect either % to be this high.
Wells (10%, 51%) NW quad, "walking the fine line"
Weaver (14%, 39%) SW quad! run away.
Thompson (13%, 55%) NW quad, but I would have sworn his K rates were better than 13%.  HR/9 of 0.63!

"...in winter, when there's no baseball... I stare out the window and wait for spring." -Rogers Hornsby

by SleepyCA on Jan 8, 2007 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

neither has Beltran
won't he be surprised ;)
"...in winter, when there's no baseball... I stare out the window and wait for spring." -Rogers Hornsby

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2007 2:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Something I'd like to see
I'd expect GB% wouldn't be effected nearly as much as K% when transitioning a reliever to start, since striking a batter out should take more effort than it would take to induce a ground ball. I'd be interested to know whether that tendency holds true.

If so, Thompson doesn't look like a horrific fifth starter.

by liam on Jan 8, 2007 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

GB%
Based on nothing I would expect the GB% to go up as a starter.  The common theory being as pitcher wear down a bit and sort their control out early in the game they tend to get more ground balls.

But yes, run away from weaver.

by DriverZn on Jan 8, 2007 8:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comparison to legue averages
last year the NL's (average) OPS was .757... isn't that exactly where the Cardsinals project?
Given our lack of pitching depth, it looks like a long summer.  

by Zubin on Jan 8, 2007 8:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

okay, obviously I can't add...
Cardinals project slightly higher than that, but not much.

by Zubin on Jan 9, 2007 2:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Zubin, Zubin, Zubin...
Ye faint of heart...

Shouldn't you go ahead and change your signature now—I suggest "2007 Cardinals - 2006 White Sox."

I kid because I love.

by liam on Jan 9, 2007 3:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Freudian Slip
"If you could construct a home run hitter in a lab, this would be your model"
-Joe Buck, after McGwire's #62 game.
Pujols > God

by joker24 on Jan 8, 2007 11:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Larry or Plh...
are either of you Pip from Fungoes?

http://stl.sabr.org/fungoes/

A pretty cool part of Pip's take on ZiPS is a look at the run projections for the rest of the NL Central.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 8, 2007 11:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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