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the hand that made us devine

Update [2007-1-29 17:15:49 by lboros]: preston wilson re-signs with the cards; 1-yr deal. here's the official press release. [end update]

the only real news this morning is bing devine's passing; tom wheatley wrote yesterday and again today about devine's career and his weighty impact on st louis baseball, and erik's post yesterday listed some of devine's most famous trades; i'd also recommend this old article from the Hardball Times naming the 1960s cardinals as perhaps the greatest trade-built team in history. and of course there are devine's memoirs, ghostwritten by the p-d's wheatley.

i had an opportunity to interview devine a year and a half ago, in the very early days of this blog; here are the links (part 1 and part 2) if you want to read or re-read that Q+A. i just looked back over the transcript, and a couple of his statements jumped out. first, i asked for his opinion of what qualities made walt jocketty so successful as a gm. devine's answer:

he relates well to people -- not only his own employees and associates, but other people. I think he's well liked and has good rapport with people. people trust him -- not only his own people, but the other teams trust him. they feel they will get a pretty honest opinion if they ask him about a ballplayer.
devine might as well have been talking about himself; he had a million friends and not many enemies. at the end of the interview, i asked him if he was still learning new things about baseball, even after having spent 65 years in the game. here's his answer:
i didn't realize how important it was down through the years until watching successful teams in maybe the last 15 or 20 years -- is how important it is to have a good relationship among the players. and i mean on the road and in the clubhouse, not just in the game itself. i think it's important to have some kind of a feeling of camaraderie, where each player is impressed with the others and all the players recognize the importance of all of them together as opposed to any one of them as individual. that's so important on a team, and i think it's usually what you find when you look back and think about what are the marks of a good team. and that, to me, is something i keep learning more about as time goes on. . . . . we're talking about something that comes down from the ownership, leadership, the loyalty of the fans, the general manager, the manager -- and when we mention all those things, they don't have anything to do really with what actually goes on on the playing field. not directly. but they can be a very important part of a team's success.
to me, that answer kind of sums up sports fandom in general, and cardinal fandom in particular: it's all about intimacy. i don't subscribe to the "best fans in baseball" line, but i do believe each fan base is unique and that each develops its own form of worship --- its own rituals and codes. it's like they're 30 denominations of the same religion. devine understood --- indeed, helped to create --- the sense of close identification with the team, the unconditional bond, that largely defines our sect. he helped build not only great teams but also a great culture --- one that st louisans take great pride in and have drawn great rewards from over the generations. devine inherited much of that tradition, but he was an excellent steward; he left the flock in better shape than he found it.

peace on ya, sir.

a few other small items of note:

  • los venados son muertos: troy cate's mazatlan team got swept out of the mexican pacific league finals. he never took the mound again after his rough outing in game 1 of the series (described here). overall this winter (including playoffs), cate went 3-2 in 8 starts; he threw 56.1 innings overall and had the same number of strikeouts as baserunners allowed (51). his era was 1.92. cate turned 26 in october --- he's older than wainwright and reyes --- so if he's gonna have a career he'd better get on with it. if he keeps pitching like he did over the last 12 months, the guy's still got a shot.
  • get ready for VEB fantasy baseball. the call for owners just went up on saturday, and already there's enough interest for nearly two full leagues. i'm very tempted to join, but i know myself too well --- if i own a team i won't get a lick of work done, and eventually i'll go broke and they'll cut off my internet service. however, i will see if i can come up with some worthwhile swag for the league winner(s).
  • frequent VEB commenter sjoshi hates all 30 major league teams, beginning with the cardinals.
  • miklasz adds some stray details about the weaver talks --- the cards' top one-year offer was $5m of guaranteed money, plus (unspecified) incentives. no words from weaver himself in the article, although scott boras chimes in. [shaking head] scott boras . . . . oh, by the way: i am reminded that Rev Halofan, my SB Nation brother over at Halos Heaven, called the outcome of the weaver "drama" nearly a month ago; details here.
  • just last week we had some lively discussion at VEB about lary sorensen; yesterday the detroit news wrote about his battle with alcoholism. dude has paid a high price; you gotta root for him to put things back together. as you might recall, the player for whom sorenson was once traded, lonnie smith, had some demons of his own --- chronicled just a couple months ago.
  • new york is still aching from yadi molina's homer three months ago --- but no hard feelings. the new york times writes lovingly of the molina family manse in vega alta, puerto rico.
  • mark buehrle is tired of hearing about his future with the cardinals, and tired of people talking sh*t about him on the internet.

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I'm with Buehrle
I'm tired of all the "Mark Buehrle to the Cardinals talk" also.  He will earn much more than he's worth on the free agent market at the end of the year.  If the Sox decide to trade him, the Sox will get much more than he's worth for this year.  I would not trade Rasmus, Hawksworth or Garcia for him but Ken Williams will get someone's top prospect for him.  I can't help but think that if he didn't grow up a Cards fan, very few Cards fans would be interested.  But since he's a hometown boy, everybody thinks he's the great #2 pitcher this staff is lacking.

by chuckb on Jan 29, 2007 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

I'm with you
Even if he offered the Cardinals a discount, someone will overpay so much it will still cost more than they are willing to offer in both years and dollars.  The only scenario that I see him as a Cardinal is if he is injured or awfull this year and signs a one year incetive laden deal to try and rebuild his value.

by Stanfan6 on Jan 29, 2007 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

wow, that buehrle article's actually more...
than just that he's tired of hearing about it. It's a denial.

He responds to rumors of his wife wanting him to go to the Cards by saying, "That's like the furthest thing from her mind, going to St. Louis. She doesn't want me playing there ever."

And as far as his feelings on the matter, he says, "I'm a Cardinals fan; I always will be. But people were thinking, 'Oh, he's a Cardinals fan. He's more apt to go there.' My heart's here in Chicago."

That doesn't sound like hometown-discount language to me.

by nycbirdo on Jan 29, 2007 10:14 AM EST reply actions  

There was a lot more in the Tribune article
He still likes the Cards.  The bit about his wife wasn't in hte Trib article, interestingly enough.

by sdrone on Jan 29, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Predictive GM names...
1). Bing Devine authored some of the trades that made this Cardinals franchise a great one both on the field and in myth and legend.

2). Brian Cashman, though a succcessful and shrewd General manager, has the luxury/responsibility of doling nearly $200 million in player sallaries every year.

Are general manager last names responsible for the lagacies they create?  Perhaps not.  Perhaps this is clearly an issue of small sample size.  You'll have to wonder if there's anything to it, though, if in a few years Hendry steps down/gets fired and the Cubs hold a press conference announce the appointment of either Travis Centuryoffailure or Bobby Marquisextension to fill the void.  I'm just saying.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 29, 2007 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

To continue...
Jim Hindrance
Billy Beane-counter
Walt Jockey-for-the-best-trade-ty

by cardzfanbub on Jan 29, 2007 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Just like anybody else...
I can't see the Cards trading for Buehrle unless he had a rolen-type extension in place soon after. It would be sweet in my opinion to have Carp, Reys, Wain, Mulder, Buehrle as our rotation though...
Pujols just did WHAT...

by gforce on Jan 29, 2007 11:02 AM EST reply actions  

Speaking of Jocketty
CBS Sportsline has an article rating the top GM's in the game.  Other than overlooking Dave Dombrowski, and giving a little too much credit to Cashman and Epstein and their untold millions, the list is pretty dead on in what is an absolutely subjective assessment.  

And who's name heads the list?  You all know.

<http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9952399/2>

by tinstl on Jan 29, 2007 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

I guess, but...
How is Mark Shapiro so high?  Sure, they've got Sizemore locked up, plus Hafner and Martinez.  Barfield could be a plus, but Peralta?  I'm not so sure.  Andy Marte's highly regarded but unproven  The rotation looks fairly week.  Sabathia's an ace, and I'd like to have Westbrook, and we might, as Cleveland hasn't locked him up past this season.  There aren't a lot of starters in the pipeline either, with only Adam Miller looking ready to take the next step.  Trot Nixon was a good value signing, I guess, but how does any of this add up to Shapiro being higher than Dombrowski, or Terry Ryan or Kenny Williams?  How long has it been since Cleveland's been in the playoffs?  You've got to give some credit to the teams that have actually won some games, right?

I could see ranking Shapiro 4th in the AL Central like this list does, but in all of baseball?  I'm not so sure.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 29, 2007 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

$5 million guaranteed???
Did you guys read the Miklasz article?  They might as well have just asked Weaver to line up for two years of them pissing on his face.

To me and to the average Joe on the street that sounds like a decent payday, but for a #2 starter--and that's the job the Cardinals were hiring him for--that's crap.  That's not a competitive offer.  It's downright disrespectful.  With World Series money, the Brass should be able to scratch the extra $3 million off their balls to field a competitive team.

This is just plain cheap.  

I love all this blather about Trader Walt swooping in for an arm at the deadline and saving his chips pennies for that distant moment.  It's possible, but it's unlikely.  A) We've got the same relatively barren farm system we've had for the past several years.  B) Even if we do pull of a trade, we're going to have to pay the new guy the amount he's scheduled to earn (more than we would have been willing to pay preseason).  C) #2 starters don't grow on trees.

I think this is going to be an ugly year.  Comparatively speaking, of course.  I think it's highly unlikely we'll even be able to duplicable, much less surpass, our regular season record from last year with the roster we've got at the moment.

"Enamored" takes the preposition "of," not "with."

by MKDCardinal on Jan 29, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions  

$5 million gauranteed!
1).  Weaver would be a number 2 starter by default.  Outside of Carpenter the Cardinals have a very unproven/ uncertain rotation.  It's only in this situation that Weaver begins the season as a number 2.  Its hardly the situation that Weaver's on par with the Cappuano's and Lackey's of this world.

2). Weaver posted a 5.76 ERA last year.  That's a full run/9 above league average.  Baseball Prospectus rated his season as below replacement value.  That is to say that Narveson, Reyes, Wainwright... you name him.. figured to produce better results than did Weaver over the span of last season.  Replacement value's sitting around a cool $400k.

3). You have to understand the terms of the deal.    Weaver's prefference going into the offseason was to field a 4yr/$40MM deal.  When that option (deservedly) didn't present itself he decided to try a short-term offer in an attempt to bolster his stats, reprove himself as a pitcher, and enter the free agent market next season as a more marketable product.  That is to say... its a too way street.  It's not all about what Weaver could do for the team, Weaver was considering what the team could do for him.  The Cardinals' superior bats, defense, and pitching coach figure to produce better statistics and, in turn, better money for Weaver next season.  Weaver needs his 2007 team probably more than his 2007 team needs him.  The Cardinals offer a better team than the Mariners.  That should (and will be) worth something.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 29, 2007 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

$5M + incentives
Also, it was an incentive laden deal with only $5M guaranteed.  He was going to get more than that, as the incentives were based on starts and innings, and Weaver routinely makes more than 30 starts for more than 200 innings.  Boras wanted more guaranteed up front, the Cards wouldn't budge, so sayanora.

by Phyrkrakr on Jan 30, 2007 6:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I would agree, except
he isn't a No. 2 starter. Weaver had one No. 2 year, and the rest indicate he is a No. 3/4/5--or maybe a guy who should consider another occupation.

Mulder is the putative No. 2, even if he hasn't lived up to it for a year. Reyes is the ascendant No. 2, and we'll see how he does. But it's hard to see how a Jeff Suppan who gives up more homeruns and posts a far worse record is somehow a No. 2.

That said, they obviously didn't want him that badly because $5 million, even with incentives, is pretty paltry.

by Red in Chicago on Jan 29, 2007 4:31 PM EST reply actions  

Weaver..
I'm wondering....what would you imagine it the TOTAL income that Jeff Weaver has made in MLB?  40 Million?  60 Million?...more? ..less?.  I guess my point is ..the guy should be pretty well financially set for the remainder of his life right NOW don't you think?....and not that he doesn' have the right to get as much money as he can to pursue his craft...by all means he certainly is entitled to that... but sometimes you have to make decisions about things that influence your life that are not based entirely on the money you earn. He came to the Cards and experienced a rebirth of sorts and will be wearing a WS ring now. He was accepted with open arms in the community and seemed to really enjoy being a member of the Cards... so that 3.5 million difference in the money can't really be the difference in his decision can it? ...Perhaps he just wants to go back to the AL and prove himself there again...I don't know..but
if he has another year like he did last year over there? I don't think that 3.5 is going to seem worth it.

by Timbo02 on Jan 29, 2007 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

Offseason summary
If you made 8.5 million the year before, how would you feel about a 3.5 million dollar pay cut? And you have a team offering you 8.5 million. He took the best deal in front of him. The Cards could have kept him if they didn't go cheap on him. 8.5 million for 1 year in this market for a 200 inning pitcher is cheap. It is obvious the Birds didn't want him back. Why, I don't know.

And Preston Wilson??? For 1 year at a million, it isn't a bad deal, but this probably stops them from trying to find a "good" outfielder.

Let's recap the offseason:
Signed

  1. Adam Kennedy -solid choice for a reasonable price.
  2. Kip Wells - lots of questions, but I like this guy and think he will prosper here.
  3. Russ Springer - Insurance for Izzy, Looper, Wainwright situation.
  4. Ryan Franklin - Wild card. High risk gamble.
  5. Preston Wilson - Good guy who seems to not have much left in the tank.
  6. Mark Mulder - Weird contract helps balance the risk on both sides. I fear his effective pitching days may be in the distant past.
  7. Chris Carpenter - Odd timing for an extension, but may prove to be the genius move of the offseason for all of MLB...unless, of course, he gets injured.
  8. Jim Edmonds - I love this guy and am glad to see him around for a little while longer.
  9. Gary Bennett - No comment (+ or -)
  10. So Taguchi - See Bennett, Gary
Lost
Weaver, Suppan, Marquis, Belliard
Only Weaver out of this group should have been kept.

Offseason Grade: See Bennett, Gary

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 29, 2007 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yo "King."...
I said I didn't blame him for taking the offer from Seattle, absolutely, if they are going to offer the money it is most likely the course anyone would take...of course...in my job if I have a year where my production goes DOWN...I take a pay cut. But not in baseball, I understand that. Just looking at it a different way, that's all.

by Timbo02 on Jan 29, 2007 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

i know
wilson is painful to watch at the plate in most cases, but he just seems like a good guy to have in the clubhouse...i could be way off base here, but he seemed like he was always having a good time and happy to be a cardinal.  

i really do hope he steps it up at the plate this year, i like seeing guys out there who look to be genuinely enjoying the game

by MarcGldstn on Jan 29, 2007 5:17 PM EST reply actions  

Here's a wager...
its not really based in much, but how's this...

Preston Wilson will hit more homeruns for the Cardinals in 2007 than Juan Encarnacion.

Any takers?  What's a reasonable wager?

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 29, 2007 5:22 PM EST reply actions  

It could be close!
My Guess:

Juan - 18
Preston - 16

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Jan 29, 2007 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

How's a VEB t-shirt?
who's down?
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 29, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll take Jenc
On the condition LBoros has new shirts by the end of '07. I've already got the old.

by nycbirdo on Jan 29, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

ooh
Forgot to consider the possibility of a trade. Oh well.

by nycbirdo on Jan 29, 2007 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Enc hits more
I'll take that bet too.  Wilson won't get nearly as much playing time with Duncan holding down the left field spot.  He might get some opportunities to play some CF, but with Taguchi back, that'll be limited.

by Phyrkrakr on Jan 30, 2007 6:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Wilson
I think it is going to be a plus having him on the team. If he hits well at all, we are in great shape. He still has speed and a rocket for an arm. His signing also puts some pressure on others to step up and contribute or pack your bags.
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Jan 29, 2007 5:26 PM EST reply actions  

That pressure from Wilson
is a good thing. J-Rod needs to step it up.

by Red in Chicago on Jan 29, 2007 5:44 PM EST reply actions  

Question
Does anyone else think this could lead to a Juan Encarnacion trade?
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 29, 2007 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

I hope not
I'm not a huge Encarnacion fan, but I cringe every time I see Wilson at the plate.  He is as sure a strikeout as anybody in baseball.

How bout this?

More Strikeouts-  Wilson or Ryan Franklin?

by Stanfan6 on Jan 29, 2007 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Wilson
hands down.  I'll even bet he wins by more than fifty.

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jan 29, 2007 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

*snicker*
Yeah, that wouldn't even be close assuming Preston gets at least 300 ABs.

A better bet would be:

Who do you think will strike out more in 2007?
a) Preston Wilson (w/ only platoon duties)
b) Juan Encarnacion (w/ a full year's ABs)
c) The entire Cardinals Starting Pitchers corps

That would probably be pretty close...

Btw, my money/t-shirt is on Wilson, assuming he gets the playing time...

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Jan 29, 2007 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

buerhle
will never come to st. louis. too much pressure pitching in front of the home crowd, i don't see it. and i think he's got some underlying shoulder issues with his drop in k's and sudden hittableness.. he could end up being this years mulder...

by erik on Jan 29, 2007 6:19 PM EST reply actions  

Ugh.
If true, that's very disappointing.  VERY.  If true.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Jan 29, 2007 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Doubt it
Was I the only one who witnessed the embrace that Pujols and Rolen shared on the infield after winning the World Series? I know I have a poster of it hanging in my room over here in Iraq and it looks to me like two genuine friends basking in the glory of being the Worlds Best. From everything I've heard, read and witnessed from both of them this article seems way off to me. They are both stand up guys and I just have a hard time believing it.

by CardinalsfanIraq on Jan 29, 2007 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Photo link
Sure looks like two guys that aren't the best of friends to me. I didn't get the chance to watch the game because I was on a plane from Kuwait to Iraq, but it looks to me as though after Wainwright sealed it that these to headed straight for each other, am I wrong?

http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=72287624&partner=Yahoo&epmid=2&phrase=albert%2 0pujols%20and%20scott%20rolen%20world%20series

by CardinalsfanIraq on Jan 29, 2007 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

apparently
p-dub's deal is for 1 year, $1 million with $500,000 in incentives if he learns how to hit...i think for that he is worth it, why not for 1 mil

by MarcGldstn on Jan 29, 2007 6:42 PM EST reply actions  

I'm in the minority...
... and think this is a horrible signing.

Granted, Preston is a good clubhouse guy and has some righthanded pop...but, he can't hit a lick and is a defensive liability.

The real reason I don't like the signing, however is this...

We will have our starting 8 guys...

Molina, Albert, Kennedy, Eck, Scotty, JEnc, Jimmy and Duncan...

Plus, TLR's typical 12 man pitching staff...

Which leaves us 5 bench spots for these guys...

Wilson
Spiezer
Marrero
JRod
Miles
Bennett
Taguchi

2 of them have to go. JRod should be the last to go, but I doubt he will. We kind of have to have a backup catcher and a backup middle infielder so Miles and Bennett stay...

Wilson, Spiezer, Eli, JRod, Taguchi...

Something tells me the two BEST hitters out of the five won't make the team.

Maybe Spiezer can play shortstop.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 29, 2007 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

Perhaps ...
some of this excess bench will be dealt before April.
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Jan 29, 2007 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think
Marrero could do everything that Wilson's gonna do -- except strike out as much.  Hit lefties, play LF and RF, hit a few homers, maybe even steal a few bags.  I don't think Wilson adds anything.  

by chuckb on Jan 29, 2007 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.
That's who I think will get sent down with JRod.  Our two best PH options off the bench.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 29, 2007 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

except for hitting
Eli hasn't been the same guy since he left the Braves.  The last two seasons, he's barely been above the Mendoza line, which is why he's played for four other clubs.  Their power numbers are similar (slight edge to PDub), but Eli gets less hits and strikes out just as much if not more.  38 K in 138 AB in 2005 and 31 K in 91 AB last year is much worse than Wilson has done, even allowing for the pinch hit/platoon role Eli's been playing.

He'll have the spring to show us he's back to the 2004 Eli.  If that happens, then I'd love for him to replace Wilson, but I don't think it's likely.

by Phyrkrakr on Jan 30, 2007 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

thinking this is
a horrible signing probably puts you in the majority actually...and i may not disagree with you, just trying to  find some silver lining to this signing...

i do agree with your bench worries however...spezio, bennett, miles are basically guaranteed to make the lineup, and i would bet taguchi is pretty much a shoe in as well, leaving 1 spot for p-dub, eli, jrod...

i think eli better get comfortable in memphis

by MarcGldstn on Jan 30, 2007 5:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Certainly not a bench
for the ages, I'll grant you that.  But you are WAY overvaluing Eli Marrero.  The way you feel about the Wilson signing is how I feel about Eli coming back.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 30, 2007 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

was just at
athleticsnation.com

I wish jocketty would give lboros an interview like beane gave them.  

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 29, 2007 10:30 PM EST reply actions  

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