team projections: PECOTA
last week we aggregated the cardinals' ZIPS projections to derive team projections for the hitters and the pitchers. today we'll do the same thing with the PECOTA projections. as i mentioned on tuesday, PECOTAs are proprietary, so it's not cool to publish a full team's worth of them; accordingly i will be publishing the cumulative numbers only today, without the accompanying player-by-player breakdowns.
before i get to those team projections, here's some cool but useless PECOTA trivia:
- how highly does PECOTA think of albert pujols? he ranks first in all of baseball in projected batting average, slugging, runs scored, equivalent average, VORP (or value over replacement player), and WARP (wins over replacement). he ranks 2d in on-base percentage, behind barry bonds; he's 3d in rbi.
- carpenter's four top comparables are 1 gaylord perry, 2 roger clemens, 3 rick reuschel, and 4 orel hershiser. reuschel seems like the odd man out here; he had a good career, won 200+ games, but was less special than the other three.
- among pitchers who are projected to make 20 or more starts, st louis has 3 of the 11 lowest projected eras in the national league: carpenter, reyes, and wainwright. the top 15 are: 1 sheets, 2 peavy, 3 carpenter, 4 oswalt, 5 webb, 6 smoltz, 7 zambrano, 8 hamels, 9 maddux, 10 an reyes, 11 wainwright, 12 glavine, 13 chr young, 14 dontrelle, 15 schmidt. observations: the padres have 3 of the top 13 (peavey, maddux, and young); also, per this list all three anchors of the late great atlanta braves' rotation remain among the nl's best starters; the trio were last teammates in 2002, and haven't been together in the same rotation since 1999, yet if you got them together today they'd still constitute a formidable staff.
- continuing to look at rotations: the cards' top three starters project to rack up a total of 13.2 wins over replacement, which ranks 4th in the league and second in the nl central; the brewers' top 3 starters (sheets, capuano, and bush) have the highest combined WARP in the nl, at 13.6. given the card threesome's low eras, why don't they rank first? simple answer: reyes and wainwright only project to throw about 160 innings apiece, which reduces their projected impact on the win column. the top 4 are milwaukee, the dbacks (with webb and big unit), philadelphia, and st louis.
| AB | H | 2B | 3B | HR | BB | | | AVG | OBP | SLG | | | runs created |
||||
| PECOTA | 5540 | 1464 | 284 | 31 | 172 | 564 | | | .264 | .338 | .420 | | | 788 | |||
| ZIPS | 5540 | 1468 | 289 | 20 | 172 | 551 | | | .265 | .338 | .419 | | | 780 | |||
| 2006 | 5552 | 1484 | 292 | 27 | 184 | 531 | | | .269 | .337 | .431 | | | 804 |
remember, last year's actual runs-scored total was 781, not 804; the latter is merely the number of runs we would have predicted based on the cards' distribution of hits, walks, and extra bases. so PECOTA projects the team to stay at about the same level offensively, and it's ever so slightly more bullish than ZIPS on the st louis offense -- by roughly one win. the distribution of at-bats i used in this exercise is essentially the same as the one used in the ZIPS team projection; refer back to that table if you want to see the breakdown. the only real difference between ZIPS and PECOTA is in the triples category; PECOTA, for some reason, has the cards hitting 11 three-baggers more, a totally meaningless blip. in the important categories --- homers, avg, obp, slg --- these two systems are almost entirely in synch.
i'll look at the pitching staff after the jump.
things have changed rather dramatically since we ran the ZIPS-based projection last week. the cardinals signed two starting pitchers, mulder and franklin; accordingly, we'll need to adjust our assumptions about playing time. because ZIPS figures are freely distributed, i can use them to illustrate how i see things breaking down now. in the original exercise, i had brad thompson as the 5th starter, making 28 starts. let's move him back to the `pen, and assign some starts to the two new signees:
| GS | IP | H | ER | BB | SO | HR | | | ERA | WHIP | | | total runs |
|||
| carpenter | 30 | 209 | 187 | 71 | 42 | 170 | 21 | | | 3.06 | 1.096 | ||||
| reyes | 28 | 166 | 158 | 71 | 42 | 140 | 26 | | | 3.85 | 1.208 | ||||
| wainwright | 28 | 165 | 174 | 71 | 53 | 102 | 22 | | | 3.87 | 1.378 | ||||
| wells | 28 | 154 | 154 | 85 | 85 | 116 | 23 | | | 4.97 | 1.554 | ||||
| franklin | 22 | 131 | 144 | 73 | 38 | 60 | 20 | | | 5.02 | 1.389 | ||||
| mulder | 14 | 80 | 85 | 41 | 30 | 46 | 9 | | | 4.61 | 1.438 | ||||
| repl starter | 12 | 60 | 70 | 38 | 30 | 33 | 12 | | | 5.70 | 1.667 | ||||
| is'hausen | 0 | 61 | 50 | 24 | 30 | 56 | 6 | | | 3.54 | 1.311 | ||||
| looper | 0 | 60 | 61 | 24 | 19 | 35 | 4 | | | 3.60 | 1.333 | ||||
| thompson | 0 | 62 | 62 | 25 | 17 | 38 | 7 | | | 3.63 | 1.274 | ||||
| springer | 0 | 50 | 46 | 23 | 18 | 40 | 7 | | | 4.14 | 1.280 | ||||
| kinney | 0 | 60 | 55 | 27 | 29 | 47 | 6 | | | 4.05 | 1.400 | ||||
| hancock | 0 | 60 | 58 | 27 | 18 | 38 | 7 | | | 4.05 | 1.267 | ||||
| flores | 0 | 42 | 43 | 21 | 18 | 35 | 4 | | | 4.50 | 1.452 | ||||
| t johnson | 0 | 45 | 40 | 26 | 35 | 47 | 6 | | | 5.20 | 1.667 | ||||
| repl relievrs | 0 | 35 | 41 | 20 | 18 | 25 | 7 | | | 5.14 | 1.686 | ||||
| new ZIPS | 162 | 1440 | 1428 | 666 | 521 | 1028 | 184 | | | 4.16 | 1.354 | | | 722 | ||
| old ZIPS | 162 | 1441 | 1431 | 667 | 546 | 1054 | 190 | | | 4.17 | 1.371 | | | 723 | ||
| 2006 | 161 | 1430 | 1475 | 721 | 504 | 970 | 193 | | | 4.54 | 1.383 | | | 762 |
mulder's raw ZIPS projection calls for 27 starts; i simply cut that in half. originally i also put franklin at 14 starts, with the remaining 20 starts on the schedule assigned to a generic replacement starter. but then i decided franklin is a generic replacement starter --- if the cardinals need an emergency fill-in, he'll be the first guy they go to --- so i shifted some of those assignments onto his line. his unadjusted ZIPS projection calls for 22 starts; that's just what i gave him. then i stuck thompson back in the bullpen and pro-rated the other relievers' innings . . . . and ended up about back where i started. the new ZIPS projection is almost identical to the old; mulder/franklin is more or less a wash with brad thompson.
i applied the same distribution of starts to the team PECOTA projection. here's how it came out:
| GS | IP | H | ER | BB | SO | HR | | | ERA | WHIP | | | total runs |
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| PECOTA | 162 | 1440 | 1460 | 681 | 534 | 1049 | 178 | | | 4.26 | 1.385 | | | 737 | ||
| new ZIPS | 162 | 1440 | 1428 | 666 | 521 | 1028 | 184 | | | 4.16 | 1.354 | | | 722 | ||
| 2006 | 161 | 1430 | 1475 | 721 | 504 | 970 | 193 | | | 4.54 | 1.383 | | | 762 |
yeesh. . . . not encouraging. but what happened? PECOTA loves the top of the st louis rotation --- 3 of the best 11 eras in the league, remember? so why is the overall team projection so much worse per PECOTA than per ZIPS? surprisingly enough, it's the bullpen. here's how the units compare:
| GS | IP | H | ER | BB | SO | HR | | | ERA | WHIP | | | total runs |
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| PECOTA rotation | 162 | 940 | 961 | 446 | 325 | 667 | 118 | | | 4.27 | 1.368 | | | 482 | ||
| ZIPS rotation | 162 | 965 | 972 | 450 | 320 | 667 | 129 | | | 4.20 | 1.340 | | | 487 | ||
| PECOTA pen | 0 | 500 | 499 | 235 | 209 | 372 | 60 | | | 4.23 | 1.416 | | | 254 | ||
| ZIPS pen | 0 | 475 | 456 | 217 | 202 | 361 | 54 | | | 4.11 | 1.385 | | | 235 |
like ZIPS, PECOTA projects the cardinal rotation as considerably better than league average; only 3 nl starting corps had eras lower than 4.27 last season. but the projected 4.30 bullpen era would have ranked 9th in the league last year. . . . . and PECOTA is assigning the 'pen a larger number of innings than ZIPS.
i'm thinking right along with some of you: if the pen's in that bad of shape, suppose the cards could get jeff weaver on their terms (ie, a two-year deal) and sent wainwright back to shore up the relief staff? here's that projection:
| GS | IP | H | ER | BB | SO | HR | | | ERA | WHIP | | | total runs |
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| OVERALL | 162 | 1440 | 1463 | 679 | 524 | 1047 | 181 | | | 4.24 | 1.381 | | | 735 | ||
| rotation | 162 | 941 | 975 | 454 | 319 | 653 | 122 | | | 4.34 | 1.376 | | | 490 | ||
| bullpen | 0 | 499 | 488 | 225 | 205 | 394 | 59 | | | 4.23 | 1.416 | | | 244 |
PECOTA doesn't project wainwright as a reliever, but we do have a ZIPS projection for him in that role, so i used it; that lowers his era by two-thirds of a run. to fit adam into the bullpen, i simply kicked braden looper off the team; he has the worst PECOTA projection among the relievers. these two maneuvers optimized the marginal gain in the bullpen --- a 9-run improvement, or one win in the standings. and it's canceled out by the 8-run hit the rotation takes with the addition of weaver, whose PECOTA era is nearly half a run higher than wainwright's. so if a weaver signing precipitates the return of wagonmaker to the bullpen, it's a useless idea --- per these assumptions, anyway. worse than useless, since it interferes with the organizational imperative to develop young starting pitchers.
but suppose they signed weaver and bumped franklin from the rotation, while wagonmaker stayed there? different story:
| GS | IP | H | ER | BB | SO | HR | | | ERA | WHIP | | | total runs |
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| PECOTA 1 | 162 | 1440 | 1460 | 681 | 534 | 1049 | 178 | | | 4.26 | 1.385 | | | 737 | ||
| PECOTA 2 | 162 | 1440 | 1463 | 679 | 524 | 1047 | 181 | | | 4.24 | 1.381 | | | 735 | ||
| PECOTA 3 | 162 | 1440 | 1440 | 669 | 514 | 1061 | 171 | | | 4.18 | 1.356 | | | 725 |
just to refresh your memory here, "PECOTA 1" is the weaverless projection; franklin takes 22 starts, mulder 14, etc etc. in "PECOTA 2," weaver replaces wainwright in the rotation, and wainwright replaces looper in the bullpen. under "PECOTA 3," weaver signs and ryan franklin doesn't make the team. the great improvement under this scenario lies in the rotation's stability; in PECOTA 3, carpenter takes 30 starts, reyes wainwright wells and weaver get 28 apiece, and mulder gets 14, which means we only have to assign 6 to our generic replacement starter --- the stiff with the 5.75 era. the rotation's collective era drops to 4.16, and the bullpen gets assigned a smaller number of innings; both of those things drive the overall team era downward.
it's still only a 1-game improvement, though; nothing to break the bank over. jocketty should continue to hold the line with boras and offer weaver two years, take it or leave it; maybe add an optional 3d year. if jeff agrees to those terms --- and the manager optimizes the use of the roster resources --- a weaver signing might be worth the trouble.
if anybody's still reading, it's time to add this all up. we run the pythagorean formula on totals of 788 runs scored and 737 runs allowed (ie, the PECOTA 1 projection) to arrive at a projected won-loss record of (drum rollllllllllll. . . . . . . . ) 86-76. if we take the PECOTA 3 projection (weaver's back!), the projected record is 88-74. in truth, the difference is only 1.28 wins; we get 86.41 wins under the first scenario, and 87.73 wins under the second, so rounding off creates the illusion of a 2-win spread. the upshot: PECOTA has the cardinals right where ZIPS did, with a win total in the mid/high 80s.
i feel like i can trust those projections, as they're based on some rather conservative assumptions re playing time. the biggest "if" is the one we've been debating back and forth since november: how reliable are those young starting pitchers? if reyes and wainwright hit their projections, the team's going to contend; if they don't, the team is in trouble. it's almost that simple.
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50 comments
Comments
I feel like I just crammed for a final.
I really think that if the Cards wouldn't have signed Frankiln and just made a run at Weaves, things (in theory) would be looking a little more stable. Of course, I'm not even sure Franklin will make the team, and Weaver may remain teamless and desperate, so it may end up that way in the end anyways.
by Alxfritz on Jan 18, 2007 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
reyes and wainwright are.....
by cards4life on Jan 18, 2007 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like this pretty well
This also makes it clear that the Cardinals are actually a little below where they need to be offensively. I guess we all saw it coming, but it really is still surprising somehow to see it in print. I think, in order to be an elite team going forward, the Cards need to start looking for possible offensive upgrades. All the more reason, in my opinion, to start shopping some relievers on the market; beginning to look for a new long term shortstop, rather than just re-upping with Eckstein for emotional reasons, should also be on the radar, I think.
by the red baron on Jan 18, 2007 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, some of these projections
by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
To me, it seems as though upgrading the outfield would be the key to moving this team to the next plane, but I don't think that is realistic - imho we're stuck with Juan. Additionally, it seems that Tony could break STL's back by keeping both Reyes and Wainwright out of the rotation.
by sdelek on Jan 18, 2007 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
in my mind
i think mid/high 80s is ok for this time of year
by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
upgrades?
by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
by TurdFerguson on Jan 18, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
derrick goold had a list
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2007/01/summer-stock-the-future-market/
by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about Mo-Town?
by wwbd on Jan 18, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whew! Exhausting read...
Truthfully, even without all the ZIPS and PECOTAs
and pacing back and forth in front of my monitor and TV, I was thinking all along that the team is about a mid 80's win total. Matter of fact, if I could get an offer of, say, 88 wins this season, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Book em'Danno.
The last sentence of the final paragraph of your post tells the entire story of the 07 season. Reyes and Wainwright meeting the projections means a fun baseball season. If the two guys do not meet projections, well, we will all be in for a long spring and summer.
by Handsome Jimmy on Jan 18, 2007 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, true
by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Expect the unexpected
As 2007 unfolds, this team will turn on the surprises - injuries, etc. on the downside and unexpected pleasures on the upside. What will those be this year? Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I have a good feeling. We could get a lift from a lot of sources: youngsters stepping up, Rolen/Edmonds health allowing a return to higher offensive production, Duncan blossoming into a consistent offensive threat, Yadi producing at the plate, shrewd spring training/trading deadline deal from Walt, etc.
As much as I love basking in the glow of our WS victory, I am anxious to get going and see how the season unfolds. Tony/Dave will have a lot of options to work through with the pitching staff and it will be interesting to watch them work - here's to them making wise choices. I hope they continue the post-season reliance on the young guys and don't take a step backwards with over-using average veterans, or counting on much from Mulder in 2007.
Interesting how projections are always weighted by recent performance, for obvious reasons. No one saw us coming in 2004 and we blew the doors off the NL. Everyone wants to talk about our 83-win team not being that great last year, but the Cards began and finished strong (they were cruising through May and obviously ended on the highest note!). As the team showed during those times, if we stay on the good side of the injury issue this could easily turn into a 95-win team. Projections won't show that because we didn't make a lot of major moves - hence the high-80's projection.
by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the bullpen will be better than
It's the bench that worries me this year...if Taguchi and Miles each get 300+ ABs and Spiezio returns to his Seattle form we could be in serious trouble.
by azruavatar on Jan 18, 2007 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll second that
by Phyrkrakr on Jan 18, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, on Pujols RBIs.....
Man. I like Eck. But sometimes I wonder about having some awesome leadoff guy, then Duncan then Pujols......
by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great Post, LB
by rockin redbird on Jan 18, 2007 10:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
LB, thanks as always
by nycbirdo on Jan 18, 2007 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
it's likely that at least one of them
i'm trying to account for that by projecting all 3 of them to only 28 starts. if all 3 were to stay healthy, they'd make 32 starts apiece, or about 96 total. but they're only projected to make 84 starts as a group, with a total of 12 missed starts --- the equivalent of about four 15-day disablements, or one 2-month disablement.
i'm simply distributing the injury time equally among the group.
by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching Projections...
by MRCARD on Jan 18, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we surmise 3 starts
that's also roughly how it breaks down w/respect to runs. 3 starts is ~ 20 innings. in that number of innings, carp would average, say, 6 runs, while a replacement pitcher would average 13 runs. that's a 7-run difference --- one win (again, in very rough terms).
don't forget, carpenter has spent time on the DL in 2 of his 3 years with the cards; and he nearly went on the DL in september 2005, when his back flared up and he posted a 9.00-something era in his last 4 or 5 starts. projecting him to 30 starts seems like a realistic thing to do; if we makes 33 starts instead, maybe that's worth a win.
by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well-rested Carp
by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really think
by chuckb on Jan 18, 2007 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
marginal managerial wins...
That pushes us to 90.
by RedbirdRay on Jan 19, 2007 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
id like to clarify my cubs stros cards statements
I hate getting beat by the cubs, but at least i know some of there fans are true die hards..i guess i hate the stros cause of there park, and the fair weather fans..
Historically the stros cards isnt as great as cubs cards, but as far as pennants or division titles go it has meant alot more in that category for at least 5 plus yrs..
so i guess i needed to stay on point and say yes cubs is the greater rivarly but im statring to hate stros more, but if the cubs start to play good then itd turn things the thought of the cubs ina world series??? ick
by punchinjudy on Jan 18, 2007 1:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cards vs. Cubs/Stros
I feel sorry for the Cubs
I HATE the Astros
The Cubs are a quality MLB Franchise that has had some serious bad luck for a long, long time. While they have been are longest running rival, we have had much success and they haven't. Thus, they don't bother me that much.
The Astros, on the other hand, we've had to face in the NLCS in 04 & 05. Both were nail-biters. Their ball park is a joke, and so are their fans.
I think the feelings really stem from who gives us more of a serious challenge.
by El Birdo Rojo on Jan 18, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, Cubs suck worse
And I don't know how you can call the Cubs a quality MLB franchise. They've made the playoffs just four times since 1945.
Worth Noting: We have more World Championships in the past three months than the Cubs and Astros have combined for since 1908
by Fitz on Jan 18, 2007 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is not possible to hate
But the Scrubs? To know them is to despise them.
Hey, hey!
by Red in Chicago on Jan 18, 2007 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cubs?
by rockin redbird on Jan 18, 2007 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The sad part
On the pitching side TLR refuses to acknowledge Reyes is a lock for a starting position and has shown no desire to start wainwright either.
Also not yet another optimistic projection for Thompson who should be the opening day #5 starter. But we will likely sign Weaver to make sure that the likely better pitcher thats 10% of the cost doesn't get to start.
The team has talent, too bad most of the best players won't be playing.
It would be interesting to rank the 2006 team by "productivity at position" and then look t just how much time was given to the poor options.
by DriverZn on Jan 18, 2007 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2006 Playoffs....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jan 18, 2007 3:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mediocre offense?
Avg/OBP/Slg/OPS
San Diego .279/.346/.443/.789
NY Mets .272/.339/.455/.794
Detroit .276/.330/.472/.802
While slightly behind the Mets and Tigers offensively per the above "neutral site" stats, San Diego was 2nd in the NL and 5th in MLB in road OPS. Using these figures you can safely say that our staff did a great job against 3 of the 5 best offenses in baseball. No small task - and, as you point out, that should give us a lot of hope coming into 2007 for our bullpen.
by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Craig Wilson
by TICY on Jan 18, 2007 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
amaury marti!!!
by SleepyCA on Jan 18, 2007 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2M dollars
total miss for the cardinals, imho.
Especially if they go to sign Preston Wilson now...
by azruavatar on Jan 18, 2007 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never did see
by chuckb on Jan 18, 2007 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not being offered a full time job in ATL
Assuming Spiezio gets most of the ABs against RHP, Taguchi is the defensive replcament in the outfield and Miles is the "defensive" replacement for the middle infield, the only thing that's clearly lacking was someone to hit LHP. They won't let JRod at lefties (or so it seems) and if they're going to give the lion's share of at bats to Spiezio they'd have been better off trading JRod and signing Wilson.
I think it's a mismanagement of resources (albeit not one that's going to cripple the club) and their passing up some very cheap players that would upgrade the bench for the sake of Taguchi and possible Preston Wilson. I just don't get it.
by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flipping edit button
by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe... maybe not
by Zubin on Jan 19, 2007 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gooch shouldn't preclude
it could have been that Wilson didn't want to come here but I never read of the cardinals even expressing interest.
by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Three million ain't chump change
Frankly, I would rather they saved the money and worked on a mid-season trade for an everyday outfielder or big-time starter.
by Red in Chicago on Jan 19, 2007 2:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand the point of this article at al
is this newsworthy? no, not really.
by madding on Jan 19, 2007 6:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, leave me out of this!
by Alxfritz on Jan 19, 2007 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is newsworthy to me...
The thought of Scooter being 100% from the get go, really makes me happy!
by CardinalsfanIraq on Jan 19, 2007 7:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My turn......
Most underrated: Scott Spezio. The one truly vital cog on the bench-we win nothing last year withouth his major contributions. Honorable mention goes to the entire middle relief pitching staff. They kept it together when the starting staff imploded.
Walt Jocketty:knows when to hold 'em, knows when to fold 'em.
Tony LaRussa: Most responsible for the 3 hour baseball game. Really, would we know anything about LOOGY'S or ROOGY'S if he hadn't been a manager for the last 971 years?
by jillsinmo on Jan 20, 2007 9:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs




















