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team projections: PECOTA

last week we aggregated the cardinals' ZIPS projections to derive team projections for the hitters and the pitchers. today we'll do the same thing with the PECOTA projections. as i mentioned on tuesday, PECOTAs are proprietary, so it's not cool to publish a full team's worth of them; accordingly i will be publishing the cumulative numbers only today, without the accompanying player-by-player breakdowns.

before i get to those team projections, here's some cool but useless PECOTA trivia:

  • how highly does PECOTA think of albert pujols? he ranks first in all of baseball in projected batting average, slugging, runs scored, equivalent average, VORP (or value over replacement player), and WARP (wins over replacement). he ranks 2d in on-base percentage, behind barry bonds; he's 3d in rbi.
  • carpenter's four top comparables are 1 gaylord perry, 2 roger clemens, 3 rick reuschel, and 4 orel hershiser. reuschel seems like the odd man out here; he had a good career, won 200+ games, but was less special than the other three.
  • among pitchers who are projected to make 20 or more starts, st louis has 3 of the 11 lowest projected eras in the national league: carpenter, reyes, and wainwright. the top 15 are: 1 sheets, 2 peavy, 3 carpenter, 4 oswalt, 5 webb, 6 smoltz, 7 zambrano, 8 hamels, 9 maddux, 10 an reyes, 11 wainwright, 12 glavine, 13 chr young, 14 dontrelle, 15 schmidt. observations: the padres have 3 of the top 13 (peavey, maddux, and young); also, per this list all three anchors of the late great atlanta braves' rotation remain among the nl's best starters; the trio were last teammates in 2002, and haven't been together in the same rotation since 1999, yet if you got them together today they'd still constitute a formidable staff.
  • continuing to look at rotations: the cards' top three starters project to rack up a total of 13.2 wins over replacement, which ranks 4th in the league and second in the nl central; the brewers' top 3 starters (sheets, capuano, and bush) have the highest combined WARP in the nl, at 13.6. given the card threesome's low eras, why don't they rank first? simple answer: reyes and wainwright only project to throw about 160 innings apiece, which reduces their projected impact on the win column. the top 4 are milwaukee, the dbacks (with webb and big unit), philadelphia, and st louis.
ok, so much for that; on to the feature presentation. without further ado, here's roughly how PECOTA sees the cardinal offense performing at the team level; ZIPS projections and actual 2006 stats included for context:
AB H 2B 3B HR BB | AVG OBP SLG | runs
created
PECOTA 5540 1464 284 31 172 564 | .264 .338 .420 | 788
ZIPS 5540 1468 289 20 172 551 | .265 .338 .419 | 780
2006 5552 1484 292 27 184 531 | .269 .337 .431 | 804

remember, last year's actual runs-scored total was 781, not 804; the latter is merely the number of runs we would have predicted based on the cards' distribution of hits, walks, and extra bases. so PECOTA projects the team to stay at about the same level offensively, and it's ever so slightly more bullish than ZIPS on the st louis offense -- by roughly one win. the distribution of at-bats i used in this exercise is essentially the same as the one used in the ZIPS team projection; refer back to that table if you want to see the breakdown. the only real difference between ZIPS and PECOTA is in the triples category; PECOTA, for some reason, has the cards hitting 11 three-baggers more, a totally meaningless blip. in the important categories --- homers, avg, obp, slg --- these two systems are almost entirely in synch.

i'll look at the pitching staff after the jump.

Star-divide

things have changed rather dramatically since we ran the ZIPS-based projection last week. the cardinals signed two starting pitchers, mulder and franklin; accordingly, we'll need to adjust our assumptions about playing time. because ZIPS figures are freely distributed, i can use them to illustrate how i see things breaking down now. in the original exercise, i had brad thompson as the 5th starter, making 28 starts. let's move him back to the `pen, and assign some starts to the two new signees:

GS IP H ER BB SO HR | ERA WHIP | total
runs
carpenter 30 209 187 71 42 170 21 | 3.06 1.096
reyes 28 166 158 71 42 140 26 | 3.85 1.208
wainwright 28 165 174 71 53 102 22 | 3.87 1.378
wells 28 154 154 85 85 116 23 | 4.97 1.554
franklin 22 131 144 73 38  60 20 | 5.02 1.389
mulder 14  80  85 41 30  46  9 | 4.61 1.438
repl starter 12  60  70 38 30  33 12 | 5.70 1.667
is'hausen  0  61  50 24 30  56  6 | 3.54 1.311
looper  0  60  61 24 19  35  4 | 3.60 1.333
thompson  0  62  62 25 17  38  7 | 3.63 1.274
springer  0  50  46 23 18  40  7 | 4.14 1.280
kinney  0  60  55 27 29  47  6 | 4.05 1.400
hancock  0  60  58 27 18  38  7 | 4.05 1.267
flores  0  42  43 21 18  35  4 | 4.50 1.452
t johnson  0  45  40 26 35  47  6 | 5.20 1.667
repl relievrs  0  35  41 20 18  25  7 | 5.14 1.686
new ZIPS 162 1440 1428 666 521 1028 184 | 4.16 1.354 | 722
old ZIPS 162 1441 1431 667 546 1054 190 | 4.17 1.371 | 723
2006 161 1430 1475 721 504 970 193 | 4.54 1.383 | 762

mulder's raw ZIPS projection calls for 27 starts; i simply cut that in half. originally i also put franklin at 14 starts, with the remaining 20 starts on the schedule assigned to a generic replacement starter. but then i decided franklin is a generic replacement starter --- if the cardinals need an emergency fill-in, he'll be the first guy they go to --- so i shifted some of those assignments onto his line. his unadjusted ZIPS projection calls for 22 starts; that's just what i gave him. then i stuck thompson back in the bullpen and pro-rated the other relievers' innings . . . . and ended up about back where i started. the new ZIPS projection is almost identical to the old; mulder/franklin is more or less a wash with brad thompson.

i applied the same distribution of starts to the team PECOTA projection. here's how it came out:

GS IP H ER BB SO HR | ERA WHIP | total
runs
PECOTA 162 1440 1460 681 534 1049 178 | 4.26 1.385 | 737
new ZIPS 162 1440 1428 666 521 1028 184 | 4.16 1.354 | 722
2006 161 1430 1475 721 504 970 193 | 4.54 1.383 | 762

yeesh. . . . not encouraging. but what happened? PECOTA loves the top of the st louis rotation --- 3 of the best 11 eras in the league, remember? so why is the overall team projection so much worse per PECOTA than per ZIPS? surprisingly enough, it's the bullpen. here's how the units compare:

GS IP H ER BB SO HR | ERA WHIP | total
runs
PECOTA rotation 162 940 961 446 325 667 118 | 4.27 1.368 | 482
ZIPS rotation 162 965 972 450 320 667 129 | 4.20 1.340 | 487
PECOTA pen    0 500 499 235 209 372 60 | 4.23 1.416 | 254
ZIPS pen    0 475 456 217 202 361  54 | 4.11 1.385 | 235

like ZIPS, PECOTA projects the cardinal rotation as considerably better than league average; only 3 nl starting corps had eras lower than 4.27 last season. but the projected 4.30 bullpen era would have ranked 9th in the league last year. . . . . and PECOTA is assigning the 'pen a larger number of innings than ZIPS.

i'm thinking right along with some of you: if the pen's in that bad of shape, suppose the cards could get jeff weaver on their terms (ie, a two-year deal) and sent wainwright back to shore up the relief staff? here's that projection:

GS IP H ER BB SO HR | ERA WHIP | total
runs
OVERALL 162 1440 1463 679 524 1047 181 | 4.24 1.381 | 735
rotation 162 941 975 454 319 653 122 | 4.34 1.376 | 490
bullpen    0 499 488 225 205 394 59 | 4.23 1.416 | 244

PECOTA doesn't project wainwright as a reliever, but we do have a ZIPS projection for him in that role, so i used it; that lowers his era by two-thirds of a run. to fit adam into the bullpen, i simply kicked braden looper off the team; he has the worst PECOTA projection among the relievers. these two maneuvers optimized the marginal gain in the bullpen --- a 9-run improvement, or one win in the standings. and it's canceled out by the 8-run hit the rotation takes with the addition of weaver, whose PECOTA era is nearly half a run higher than wainwright's. so if a weaver signing precipitates the return of wagonmaker to the bullpen, it's a useless idea --- per these assumptions, anyway. worse than useless, since it interferes with the organizational imperative to develop young starting pitchers.

but suppose they signed weaver and bumped franklin from the rotation, while wagonmaker stayed there? different story:

GS IP H ER BB SO HR | ERA WHIP | total
runs
PECOTA 1 162 1440 1460 681 534 1049 178 | 4.26 1.385 | 737
PECOTA 2 162 1440 1463 679 524 1047 181 | 4.24 1.381 | 735
PECOTA 3 162 1440 1440 669 514 1061 171 | 4.18 1.356 | 725

just to refresh your memory here, "PECOTA 1" is the weaverless projection; franklin takes 22 starts, mulder 14, etc etc. in "PECOTA 2," weaver replaces wainwright in the rotation, and wainwright replaces looper in the bullpen. under "PECOTA 3," weaver signs and ryan franklin doesn't make the team. the great improvement under this scenario lies in the rotation's stability; in PECOTA 3, carpenter takes 30 starts, reyes wainwright wells and weaver get 28 apiece, and mulder gets 14, which means we only have to assign 6 to our generic replacement starter --- the stiff with the 5.75 era. the rotation's collective era drops to 4.16, and the bullpen gets assigned a smaller number of innings; both of those things drive the overall team era downward.

it's still only a 1-game improvement, though; nothing to break the bank over. jocketty should continue to hold the line with boras and offer weaver two years, take it or leave it; maybe add an optional 3d year. if jeff agrees to those terms --- and the manager optimizes the use of the roster resources --- a weaver signing might be worth the trouble.

if anybody's still reading, it's time to add this all up. we run the pythagorean formula on totals of 788 runs scored and 737 runs allowed (ie, the PECOTA 1 projection) to arrive at a projected won-loss record of (drum rollllllllllll. . . . . . . . ) 86-76. if we take the PECOTA 3 projection (weaver's back!), the projected record is 88-74. in truth, the difference is only 1.28 wins; we get 86.41 wins under the first scenario, and 87.73 wins under the second, so rounding off creates the illusion of a 2-win spread. the upshot: PECOTA has the cardinals right where ZIPS did, with a win total in the mid/high 80s.

i feel like i can trust those projections, as they're based on some rather conservative assumptions re playing time. the biggest "if" is the one we've been debating back and forth since november: how reliable are those young starting pitchers? if reyes and wainwright hit their projections, the team's going to contend; if they don't, the team is in trouble. it's almost that simple.

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I feel like I just crammed for a final.
But the only real conclusion I have drawn is that Adam Wainwright is awesome.

I really think that if the Cards wouldn't have signed Frankiln and just made a run at Weaves, things (in theory) would be looking a little more stable. Of course, I'm not even sure Franklin will make the team, and Weaver may remain teamless and desperate, so it may end up that way in the end anyways.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Jan 18, 2007 9:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

reyes and wainwright are.....
going to be very good (i hope). they better be or else the cards wont have a chance to defend their title. i agree with alex, i dont think the cards should have signed franklin, i think they should have just made a run at weaver (of course they still can 'cause he is still available). walt should offer no more than a two year deal with an option for a third to weaver, i really cant see walt giving weavs more than 2 years guaranteed.
www.redbirdramblings.wordpress.com

by cards4life on Jan 18, 2007 9:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like this pretty well
You know, looking at this, you really see just how different this team is from the band of sluggers the Cards were just 3 years ago.  I must say, the team's braintrust has done a pretty damned impressive job of building a strong nucleus of pitching.  These projections do, however, underline my objections to Ryan Franklin, who will most likely make the team despite not offering anything, over pitchers who at the least offer youth and potential.  

This also makes it clear that the Cardinals are actually a little below where they need to be offensively.  I guess we all saw it coming, but it really is still surprising somehow to see it in print.  I think, in order to be an elite team going forward, the Cards need to start looking for possible offensive upgrades.  All the more reason, in my opinion, to start shopping some relievers on the market; beginning to look for a new long term shortstop, rather than just re-upping with Eckstein for emotional reasons, should also be on the radar, I think.  

by the red baron on Jan 18, 2007 9:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, some of these projections
are dang cheerful.  Better starting that last year?  Nice.

by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post
Really enjoyed that post, thanks LB.  I have a question to put out there though.  I am curious to know what could realistically be done by Walt to bump this team up to the next level (projected wins in the low 90s).  Realistically is obviously the key word, but it seems as though there aren't many moves left to be done by Walt and that a lot will depend on what Tony does with the team when they break from Spring Training.  

To me, it seems as though upgrading the outfield would be the key to moving this team to the next plane, but I don't think that is realistic - imho we're stuck with Juan.  Additionally, it seems that Tony could break STL's back by keeping both Reyes and Wainwright out of the rotation.  

by sdelek on Jan 18, 2007 9:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

in my mind
just keep the team as it is and hope things break in stl's favor. there's a chance kip wells will put up an era closer to 4.00 than to 5.00 ---- that'd be worth some extra wins. there's a chance that one of the power hitters (duncan edmonds and rolen) will hit 30+ hr instead of 20+. there's a chance mark buehrle will be pitching well and become available at the trading deadline --- and the cards will grab him.

i think mid/high 80s is ok for this time of year

by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 9:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

upgrades?
lboros - any thoughts on "impact" starters or outfielders that might come on the radar screen?  I could see packaging Encarnacion/Looper/etc. for someone on a team with payroll issues/etc.?

by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand
what all the optimism is with Kip Wells. It's been two or three seasons since he was moderately decent. He was dumped by the Pirates (!!) for a reason. This reminds me of the Brett Tomko experiment a few years back. Everyone was certain that he would suddenly turn into a 15-18 game winner because he was pitching with StL. It didn't work out, obviously. Does Wells have the POTENTIAL to be decent? Sure. But he has an equally good percentage to stink up the place. This is why I (and hopefully many others out there) hope Jocketty isn't done searching for some pitching.
Cards fan in Denver

by TurdFerguson on Jan 18, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what about Mo-Town?
Detroit needs and wants a left handed reliever badly, and supposedly would give up Thames and one of thier pithcing prospects for the right deal. Thames hits for power, though strikes out to much. Average defense(at best) in the outfield. Why not try to move Rincon (pipe dream?) or someone else, Johnson or Flores, and pick up another future starting pitcher and an outfielder?
go crazy folks..........

by wwbd on Jan 18, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whew! Exhausting read...
I can imagine the work that you put into this column. LB, you sir, are a man among boys with these posts. Simply astounding work, and I thought that I was a huge Cardinal fan!

Truthfully, even without all the ZIPS and PECOTAs
and pacing back and forth in front of my monitor and TV, I was thinking all along that the team is about a mid 80's win total. Matter of fact, if I could get an offer of, say, 88 wins this season, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Book em'Danno.

The last sentence of the final paragraph of your post tells the entire story of the 07 season. Reyes and Wainwright meeting the projections means a fun baseball season. If the two guys do not meet projections, well, we will all be in for a long spring and summer.

Nuthin'....I got nuthin'over here.

by Handsome Jimmy on Jan 18, 2007 9:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

thanks hj
glad you liked the post --- but in truth, the spreadsheet did most of the work . . . .

by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 9:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, true
I try to keep up occasional blog posts and that's though.  This stuff is nuts!   Lots of depth here.

by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Expect the unexpected
Obviously a rich post today, lboros!  Thanks for all the work you put into the site.  I continue to find out how much I don't know.....

As 2007 unfolds, this team will turn on the surprises - injuries, etc. on the downside and unexpected pleasures on the upside.  What will those be this year?  Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I have a good feeling.  We could get a lift from a lot of sources:  youngsters stepping up, Rolen/Edmonds health allowing a return to higher offensive production, Duncan blossoming into a consistent offensive threat, Yadi producing at the plate, shrewd spring training/trading deadline deal from Walt, etc.

As much as I love basking in the glow of our WS victory, I am anxious to get going and see how the season unfolds.  Tony/Dave will have a lot of options to work through with the pitching staff and it will be interesting to watch them work - here's to them making wise choices.  I hope they continue the post-season reliance on the young guys and don't take a step backwards with over-using average veterans, or counting on much from Mulder in 2007.

Interesting how projections are always weighted by recent performance, for obvious reasons.  No one saw us coming in 2004 and we blew the doors off the NL.  Everyone wants to talk about our 83-win team not being that great last year, but the Cards began and finished strong (they were cruising through May and obviously ended on the highest note!).  As the team showed during those times, if we stay on the good side of the injury issue this could easily turn into a 95-win team.  Projections won't show that because we didn't make a lot of major moves - hence the high-80's projection.

by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 10:05 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think the bullpen will be better than
PECOTA or ZIPs projects.  TLR and DD are if nothing else good at constructing bullpens.  Sometimes they use guys outside of their roles (see how many RH batters Flores and TJ faced last year) and stick with guys for too long, but on the whole I think they run a damn fine bullpen. One that will outperform the projections.

It's the bench that worries me this year...if Taguchi and Miles each get 300+ ABs and Spiezio returns to his Seattle form we could be in serious trouble.

by azruavatar on Jan 18, 2007 10:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'll second that
If there's any particular problem with the bullpen, there's plenty of young talent that could make the jump this year.  Narveson, Hawksworth, and Cate could all be ready for the show if there are short term problems in the pen.  However, the bench could turn into a real problem if we run into injury problems.  All it would take is Jimmy and Juan not coming back well from surgery and our team would be in serious trouble.  In other words, sign Preston Wilson or somebody similar who can play an outfield bench role.

by Phyrkrakr on Jan 18, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So, on Pujols RBIs.....
which 2 players have more than him?

Man.  I like Eck.   But sometimes I wonder about having some awesome leadoff guy, then Duncan then Pujols......

by sdrone on Jan 18, 2007 10:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great Post, LB
Let's hope at least a few players outperform their projections. Oh, and thanks for a great morning laugh with the new poll--listing the Cubs as "Other". Made my day. HA!

by rockin redbird on Jan 18, 2007 10:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

LB, thanks as always
such fantastic stuff. My one question is, how realistic a projection is it that Reyes, WW and Wells all make 28 starts, i.e. that none of them has a month-long injury? I'd be quite happy if the rotation as a whole was this durable.

by nycbirdo on Jan 18, 2007 12:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

it's likely that at least one of them
will break down for some period of time --- but there's no way to predict which one(s) of them WILL break down, or for how long.

i'm trying to account for that by projecting all 3 of them to only 28 starts. if all 3 were to stay healthy, they'd make 32 starts apiece, or about 96 total. but they're only projected to make 84 starts as a group, with a total of 12 missed starts --- the equivalent of about four 15-day disablements, or one 2-month disablement.

i'm simply distributing the injury time equally among the group.

by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitching Projections...
Carpenter has averaged 32.5 Starts per year the last 2 years.  If he makes 2 of the replacement players starts (or even 3), that has to be worth a win or 2 right?
"It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable". Joe Garagiola

by MRCARD on Jan 18, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if we surmise 3 starts
it would be worth close to one extra win. think about it for a second --- a terrible pitcher wins 1 out of every 3 starts; a great one like carp wins 2 out of 3. so over 3 games, 1 extra win is about right. in rough terms.

that's also roughly how it breaks down w/respect to runs. 3 starts is ~ 20 innings. in that number of innings, carp would average, say, 6 runs, while a replacement pitcher would average 13 runs. that's a 7-run difference --- one win (again, in very rough terms).

don't forget, carpenter has spent time on the DL in 2 of his 3 years with the cards; and he nearly went on the DL in september 2005, when his back flared up and he posted a 9.00-something era in his last 4 or 5 starts. projecting him to 30 starts seems like a realistic thing to do; if we makes 33 starts instead, maybe that's worth a win.

by lboros on Jan 18, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well-rested Carp
As has been noted on VEB before, Carp is lights-out when well-rested and merely human otherwise.  If we could somehow manage him to around 30 starts and not push him, he could easily win 20 games with a very low ERA.  Given his history, those extra three starts would yield more runs than his average - maybe even close to league average (remember those 2 key starts in September when he didn't perform well and basically lost the Cy Young?).  I'm not sure there is an extra win in those starts - and managing him to 30 might result in an extra win there vs. projections.  Make sense?

by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really think
that the bullpen's numbers will be a little better than PECOTA projects and I think Reyes and Wainwright will throw 180-190 IP rather than the 150-160 PECOTA projects.  At least I hope so.  I also think Molina will display a little more power than PECOTA projects.  But I also know that we won't overperform everywhere.  Somewhere someone will underperform.  But overall, it's real good news on Wainwright and Reyes and is also very close to ZIPS' projections on the two.  I think that bodes well.  If we're at 88 wins now, we should be able to find a way to squeeze 3 or 4 more wins together w/ additions or lineup tinkering to take the Central.

by chuckb on Jan 18, 2007 12:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

marginal managerial wins...
I've mentioned it several times, and last time in the similar ZiPS thread... BTF did a study that showed TLR is historically 2-3 wins better than his pythag.  

That pushes us to 90.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 19, 2007 9:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

id like to clarify my cubs stros cards statements
i went a bit far saying id rather them sweep in houston than beat the season series with the cubs..however my comments are based lastr 3-5 yrs so winning the season series with cubs hasnt meant much aside from the rivarly

I hate getting beat by the cubs, but at least i know some of there fans are true die hards..i guess i hate the stros cause of there park, and the fair weather fans..

Historically the stros cards isnt as great as cubs cards, but as far as pennants or division titles go it has meant alot more in that category for at least 5 plus yrs..

so i guess i needed to stay on point and say yes cubs is the greater rivarly but im statring to hate stros more, but if the cubs start to play good then itd turn things the thought of the cubs ina world series??? ick

Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Jan 18, 2007 1:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cards vs. Cubs/Stros
pjudy-

I feel sorry for the Cubs
I HATE the Astros

The Cubs are a quality MLB Franchise that has had some serious bad luck for a long, long time.  While they have been are longest running rival, we have had much success and they haven't.  Thus, they don't bother me that much.

The Astros, on the other hand, we've had to face in the NLCS in 04 & 05.  Both were nail-biters.  Their ball park is a joke, and so are their fans.  

I think the feelings really stem from who gives us more of a serious challenge.

by El Birdo Rojo on Jan 18, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no, Cubs suck worse
Not to stand up for the Astros, but the Cubs definitely suck worse. Minute Maid Park is a mockery, and they did beat us in 2005...but we beat them in 2004, so I feel like it kinda evens out.

And I don't know how you can call the Cubs a quality MLB franchise. They've made the playoffs just four times since 1945.

Worth Noting: We have more World Championships in the past three months than the Cubs and Astros have combined for since 1908

by Fitz on Jan 18, 2007 7:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It is not possible to hate
a team more than the Cubs. Yes, the Astros are completely bogus. They have no tradition, they have a miniature golf course for a ballpark, they have sissified uniforms in garish colors.

But the Scrubs? To know them is to despise them.

Hey, hey!

by Red in Chicago on Jan 18, 2007 1:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cubs?
Oh yeah, the other baseball team in Chicago. Almost forgot about them. Honestly, I've been a Cub-hater for so long it's part of the fabric of my life. But it is a reflex. They haven't earned my hatred in a long time, not counting 03 (which was worth missing playoffs just to see the utter despondency--tears even--on the faces of their fans whom I live amongst--all hail Bartman!), but they haven't really figured into anything for so long that my hatred has lost its flavor like an old, dried-out, overchewed piece of gum. I hope they do contend this year just so I can get riled up and give that hatred a context again. Until they're good enough to consistently threaten us or matter in some way, the Stros are numero uno on my villain list.

by rockin redbird on Jan 18, 2007 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The sad part
Is in both the rotation and OF we will skip over young cheap players with lots of upside for proven mediocre vets.  We have 5 outfields that project better better than Juan and So, yet between them they will get close to 800 ABs.

On the pitching side TLR refuses to acknowledge Reyes is a lock for a starting position and has shown no desire to start wainwright either.

Also not yet another optimistic projection for Thompson who should be the opening day #5 starter.  But we will likely sign Weaver to make sure that the likely better pitcher thats 10% of the cost doesn't get to start.

The team has talent, too bad most of the best players won't be playing.

It would be interesting to rank the 2006 team by "productivity at position" and then look t just how much time was given to the poor options.

by DriverZn on Jan 18, 2007 2:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

2006 Playoffs....
While I realize it's unlikely, what if our bullpen (specifically TJ and Kinney), pitch in the 2k7 regular season like they did in the 2k6 playoffs? It's certainly not out of the question. They fared well against 2 powerful offenses, and one mediocre offense (San Diego). That would be a wonderful thing.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jan 18, 2007 3:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Mediocre offense?
San Diego's numbers for the season don't look that great due to their playing in the extreme pitcher's park of PETCO.  Here's a comparison of the three postseason offenses we faced looking at their away numbers (in each case their road numbers are better than their home numbers - they all play in pitcher's parks):

Avg/OBP/Slg/OPS

San Diego  .279/.346/.443/.789
NY Mets  .272/.339/.455/.794
Detroit  .276/.330/.472/.802

While slightly behind the Mets and Tigers offensively per the above "neutral site" stats, San Diego was 2nd in the NL and 5th in MLB in road OPS.  Using these figures you can safely say that our staff did a great job against 3 of the 5 best offenses in baseball.  No small task - and, as you point out, that should give us a lot of hope coming into 2007 for our bullpen.

by wildman on Jan 18, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Craig Wilson
signs with Hotlanta. Part of me dies inside.

by TICY on Jan 18, 2007 8:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

amaury marti!!!
bah for craig wilson.
"...in winter, when there's no baseball... I stare out the window and wait for spring." -Rogers Hornsby

by SleepyCA on Jan 18, 2007 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2M dollars
great signing for the braves.

total miss for the cardinals, imho.  

Especially if they go to sign Preston Wilson now...

by azruavatar on Jan 18, 2007 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never did see
why Craig Wilson would sign w/ the Cards.  We weren't going to give him a chance to play every day.  He'd get a few AB's in LF, maybe a few in RF, and none at 1B.  I knew someone would offer him more of a chance to play than we would.

by chuckb on Jan 18, 2007 10:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's not being offered a full time job in ATL
he'll platoon with Thurman(?) most likely.  If we had offered Wilson 3 million a few weeks ago, we would have a decent option off the bench against RHP.  Instead we have Taguchi.  

Assuming Spiezio gets most of the ABs against RHP, Taguchi is the defensive replcament in the outfield and Miles is the "defensive" replacement for the middle infield, the only thing that's clearly lacking was someone to hit LHP.  They won't let JRod at lefties (or so it seems) and if they're going to give the lion's share of at bats to Spiezio they'd have been better off trading JRod and signing Wilson.

I think it's a mismanagement of resources (albeit not one that's going to cripple the club) and their passing up some very cheap players that would upgrade the bench for the sake of Taguchi and possible Preston Wilson.  I just don't get it.

by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 12:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

flipping edit button
obviously C. Wilson and Taguchi are used primarily against lefties.

by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 12:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe... maybe not
most likely we didn't pursue Wilson because we already have the Gooch.  But, it just might have been that Wilson wasn't interested in the Birds.

by Zubin on Jan 19, 2007 1:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gooch shouldn't preclude
a pickup of C. Wilson since the Gooch doesn't hit for any significant offense.

it could have been that Wilson didn't want to come here but I never read of the cardinals even expressing interest.

by azruavatar on Jan 19, 2007 1:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Three million ain't chump change
The Cardinals rarely pay that kind of dough for part-time players. They wouldn't give Mabry $2MM and Speizio is only at $2.3. Everybody else is a million or less.

Frankly, I would rather they saved the money and worked on a mid-season trade for an everyday outfielder or big-time starter.

by Red in Chicago on Jan 19, 2007 2:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I concur.
We don't need another part-time OF.  We need a RF with an impact bat and/or a #2 starter.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Jan 19, 2007 5:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

al = all
I need to go to sleep

by madding on Jan 19, 2007 6:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, leave me out of this!
I'm sure Tony and Scott normally used talk every day for hours on the phone and go out on weekend holidays to St Barts during past offseasons. Oh, how things have changed!
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Jan 19, 2007 7:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is newsworthy to me...
"I'm doing everything I've done in the past. I'm totally free from any limitations."

The thought of Scooter being 100% from the get go, really makes me happy!

by CardinalsfanIraq on Jan 19, 2007 7:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My turn......
Most Overrated:  Everyone who said David Eckstein is correct.  That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team-he's a good fit for now, but a truly great player, he ain't.
Most underrated:  Scott Spezio.  The one truly vital cog on the bench-we win nothing last year withouth his major contributions.  Honorable mention goes to the entire middle relief pitching staff.  They kept it together when the starting staff imploded.
Walt Jocketty:knows when to hold 'em, knows when to fold 'em.
Tony LaRussa:  Most responsible for the 3 hour baseball game.  Really, would we know anything about LOOGY'S or ROOGY'S if he hadn't been a manager for the last 971 years?

by jillsinmo on Jan 20, 2007 9:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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