#1 similar pitcher to Dave Veres on BR.com:

Braden Looper!

i'm sure a lot of old geezers like me are having nightmarish flashbacks to mark littell . . . .

Dave Veres:  I remember him being a really good closer one year(probably that 162 ERA+ year), and then the next two years, he was "awful"(in quotes, because as the stats show, he really wasn't, but in my mind he was).

I feared him coming in the game.

Similarly, I'm sure there will be plenty of people to say Izzy with the current team.

It seemed like even when he was getting 30 save seasons, every save was overly dramatic, usually getting the tying run at least to 2nd base before he dropped in one of his knucklecurves for the 27th out or induced the game-winning groundout.

I swear every time he stepped on the warning track outside of the bullpen, we had already lost the game regardless of the current score.  A 1.8 WHIP?????

Brantley probably takes the crumbs that Ricky left over...every time I see him say something on BBTN about pitching, I always think "Yeah how the hell would you know".  What a pathetic season that guy had.

Seemed like he blew every game I attended as a kid.  Including a big Cards-Cubs game my whole church attended.  

Looking back, his stats weren't that bad.   Of course, I haven't done anything in depth to find his inherited runners ratio.

I was partial to Tony Fossas and Jeff Fassero.

When I say "partial," I am referring to where my hatred was directed to the most.

I remember my dad calling him "gopher ball."  In looking at his Cardinal stats (played for the Redbirds in 1974-75) he was actually pretty good.  Must have been one of my dad's scapegoats during those frustrating '70's - clearly more an emotional choice than a rational one!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garmami01.shtml

Ray King by a mile. Not only did I cringe whenever he came in, but I prayed that whatever team had lots o' righties.

Honorable mention on the left side -- Steve Kline.

As for the right side, Izzy makes it a little too interesting, but he gets the job done.

Seared in my mind is what a great team King and Kline were from the left side in 2004 (a year when I savored every game, for obvious reasons).

They had ERA+ of 160 (King) and 234 (Kline).  Their WHIPs were 1.07 and 1.08.  

King obviously regressed the next year, and that seems to be a theme in how these perceptions are shaped:  If a player raises our expectations one season, he's judged pretty harshly if his numbers drop even if he puts in above average numbers the next year.

And of course memorable home runs, etc., distort our memories too....

For me it has to be Jeff Brantley. Partly because he was brought in with so much postive talk. It got my hopes up and then they were all so quickly dashed away. It makes me even madder now to watch him blather away on ESPN. My favorite is when he talks about what it takes to be a closer or discussing his "analysis" of Tony's moves. I just can't take him seriously.

BOOOOOOOOOO Jeff Brantley!!!

On a side note, I will just say that Jose Jimenez was and still is one of my favorite cardinals. I still think that given some more time he could have made it as a good young back of the rotation pitcher for the Cards. His sinker was fun to watch. Sending a sinkerballer to Coors is a sure way to end a career that never was...

my brother-in-law and I always bend at the hips, hanging our gut out as far as possible, while dangling our left arm, with the right hand tucked securely under our chin at the mention of Burger King.

Ray King always looked like a goofball when staring in for the sign.

Jeff Tabaka because of this game.

After 2004, I really liked King. But at the end of 2005, when management seemed to keep giving him chance after chance not to blow a game, I blamed him for the difference between a 105-win season and a 100-win season--justly or not.

More like permanently crippled it.

So many that I don't even want to ruin the rest of my day recalling all of the games that were torched because of these guys. In a nutshell, I'll just say that the guys that got beat because the opposing hitters simply beat their best pitch never really bothered me for more than a few hours. The stay-up-all-niter's-because-I-couldn't-sleep relievers is what I am talking about. The absolute worst are the relievers that walked the first batter faced, then nibbled, loading the bases to face the big hitters, who'd then deliver the game winner for the opposing teams. No need to name individuals, we all are haunted by these guys.

Julian Tavarez used to scare the hell out of me.  I know he was better than average but you never knew what you'd get w/ him.  Would it be 1, 2, 3, or an HBP, a double, a homer, and then 2 more HBP's.  

Of course Esteban Yan and Pedro Borbon, Jr.  Who can forget the dreaded Mike Mathews?  And my brother and I used to call Bryan Eversgerd "kerosene boy" b/c an explosion was about to take place every time he took the ball!

no new info here. but even though i have been slurping weaver here for about a week, i still have to say that i think weaver would make more sense than mulder at this point. if we sign mulder, i don't think we go after weaver, and it baffles me why we chose that way when it appears we had to get into a bidding war for mulder, when we may have been the only team really in on weaver, who had already appeared willing to give us a hometown discount to stay. i foresee 2-3 months of brad thompson, followed by a month and a half beginning around the all-star break of mulder coming back and pitching about as well as thompson did, followed by neither being in the postseason rotation, if there is one.

Comes to mind first (altough Ray King is a close second)when I read this post.
There was more than a couple times this season the following scenario would happen:  I would keep up with the games over the internet (games aren't televised in WI) most nights and be in bed by the 6th or 7th inning (I'm boring, I know) and felt comfortable with a 2 or 3 run lead. I would turn on sportscenter in the morning to see the highlights, but before I saw highlights I would see the score along the ticker at the bottom, Cardinals lose by 1 or 2.  It became habit that I turned to the wife and tell her that Looper must have fucked it up.  Sure enough, Looper fucked it up whenver those words were uttered by me.
It became a running joke that everytime in the morning I'd say the Cardinals lost, first words out of her mouth were "Did Looper fuck it up?".  It makes for good laughs.  What made her laugh even more was when I told her they were considering Looper as a starter.

juan acevedo
slocumb
luebbers
sodowsky
journell
painter
hermanson

but never seemed to get his shot?

This guy.

like when Ted Williams left major league baseball to become a fighter pilot?

Is that the sort of "sacrifice" Ali made? I must have missed it.

but we're talking bad emotional responses to relievers so I'd have to say good ole Al Hrabosky when he was a reliever for the Royals (wasn't paying much attention when he was with the Cards).  The Royals were my favorite team then because they were my dad's favorite team and I was like 9 years old.  It just seemed like every time he went out there in a big situation and did that psyching himself up mad Hungarian routine behind the mound, he'd give up the game winning hit - usually a home run - and usually to the damn Yankees.      

I know I know he is not a reliever, but he is the starter/reliever who stands for everything (I hope) the Cardinals are not.  Tons of talent, no ability to get it.

Random favorite:  John Costello?

I loved that guy and can't explain why...

That SOB always made me work extra innings. It would be top of the ninth and we'd be up by one run. Here comes good ol Jeff Brantley. One pitch, one homerun, and we'd be in extras. Oh and another guy that always pissed me off was Kent Mercker. Ok that's all I got.

... hands down. if only for giving up that extra-inning walk off homer to Sosa during that 5-game series shellacking the Cubs gave us in late- '03.

He wrote some nice stories about his experiences with Dave Veres at O,YNAG. Good stuff.

accodring to bernie

"One source just told me via text message it's done...Mulder will remain with STL.

I'm trying to confirm...

--B"

but Neil Allen is the guy that drove me nuts. In retrospect I suppose it was because '84 was such a bummer and the hated Mets ripped us off for one of our best players...

Herzog was a great manager but he was such a hayseed moralist. So what if Hernandez liked to party a little...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2726841

Free-agent left-hander Mark Mulder, opting for continuity as he recovers from shoulder surgery, has reached agreement on a two-year, $13 million contract with the Cardinals, FOXSports.com has learned.

The contract includes an $11 million option for 2009, and could be worth as much as $45 million over three years if the Cardinals exercise the option and Mulder realizes all of his incentive bonuses.
Mulder, 29, will receive a guaranteed $5 million in '07 and $6.5 million in '08 with a $1.5 million buyout if the Cardinals decline his option.

He can earn as much as $6.525 million in incentives based on his number of starts next season. That number then would be added to his guaranteed salary in '08, and he also would receive incentives in '08 for every start he makes between 21 and 35. His option for '09 would be worth at least what he earned in '08.

Thus, if Mulder returns as expected around the All-Star break and pitches on a regular turn through '08, he will paid market value for a pitcher of his caliber.

Mulder rejected similar offers from the Rangers and Indians to remain with the defending world champions, who lost free-agent right-hander Jeff Suppan to the Brewers and are still trying to retain free-agent right-hander Jeff Weaver.

The signing of Mulder would not produce an immediate return -- the pitcher, recovering from surgery to repair a partially torn rotator cuff, is not expected to be available until July. Relievers Adam Wainwright and Braden Looper are among the options the Cardinals are considering for their rotation, which is questionable beyond right-hander Chris Carpenter.

The loss of Mulder marks the Rangers' latest setback in a trying off-season in which the team lost five free free agents and failed to land free-agent left-hander Barry Zito. Without Mulder, the Rangers' rotation is expected to include right-handers Kevin Millwood, Vicente Padilla, Brandon McCarthy and Kameron Loe along with lefty John Koronka.

The Indians emerged as a finalist for Mulder in part due to their impressive history of rehabilitating injured pitchers. Their need for a starter, however, was less urgent than the Cardinals' and Rangers'. Four veterans -- lefties C.C. Sabathia and Cliff Lee and righties Jake Westbrook and Paul Byrd -- will head their rotation.

Mulder, 103-57 lifetime with a 4.11 ERA, tied Angels right-hander Bartolo Colon for the major-league lead with 88 victories from 2001 to '05. However, he struggled with his mechanics in his two seasons with the Cardinals, then underwent surgery in early September.

I get pissed every time he comes in.  Yes, I think he is a pretty good closer.  I think his great days are over, but i think he's far better than average.  Top ten guy....
BUT HE IS A MOOOOROONNNN
I have to leave the room when he comes in.  He reminds me of Marquis.  Zero Confidence.

P.S.
Ha...Marquis' a Cub!!!!
: )