Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

lonely little game

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in St. Louis Cardinals News

the irony. after nearly a full season of skepticism, emphasizing the cardinals' flaws and waving red flags -- their lousy strikeout rate, their negative homerun differential, their imbalanced rotation and misappropriation of roster resources -- after months and months of, in essence, issuing "sell" recommendations on st louis cardinals stock, i come to find that, at the very end, i may have overestimated this team.

i knew they weren't good, but i thought they were good enough to win the division. now i'm not so sure.

as the astros have gotten closer and closer and closer -- and as the st louis bats went limp, the izzy-less bullpen disintegrated, the staff ace faltered -- even as all those things happened, the cards always had dumb luck and the schedule on their side. but luck is no longer quite so one-sided an asset, and they can't run the clock out on the schedule. the astros want this; they're really playing for something. whereas the cardinals seem to want nothing more than a negative -- ie, they want not to go down as the biggest chokers in history. houston's got the initiative, and that might prove to be more important than the one lonely little game in the loss column the cardinals still possess.

if i turn out to be wrong and the cardinals finish 2d, i'll accept the verdict of the scoreboard; it don't lie. whatever their fate turns out to be, they will have earned it -- and i will be able to live with it. i suggested a few days ago that the cardinals' last 7 games amounted to a de facto playoff series -- win 4 of the 7 and they (probably) advance. they're now down in that "series," 2 games to 1; they need 3 more wins. they'll have up to 5 games to get them. if the cardinals aren't up to that very small challenge, then they don't belong in the playoffs -- plain and simple.

i mean, they don't belong in the playoffs anyway -- not under any circumstances, not even if they win out. in a best-case scenario, the cardinals will finish with 85 wins; relying strictly on memory, i think that would make them the 4th-worst postseason team of all time, after the '05 padres (82 wins), the '73 mets (also 82), and the '84 royals (84). they currently have the 13th-best record in baseball; they'd be no better than a 3d-place club in any of the 5 other divisions, and a 4th-place club in two of'm. the texas rangers still have a chance to flag down the cardinals in the win column on this final weekend.

they already don't belong in the playoffs.

so if the cardinals do, in fact, miss the playoffs, i won't lose a minute of sleep over it. the guys losing sleep will be the new york mets and all their fans. you think they want to face clemens oswalt and pettitte? they're all rooting like hell for the cardinals -- probably harder than some of us are. they, not we, may be the real losers if st louis completes its collapse. i daresay even some of those american league teams are pulling for our guys; of all the nl teams they might wish to avoid in the world series, houston probably ranks at the top of the list. just what we've always wanted -- the whole baseball world is rooting for the cardinals!

if it should come down to a one-game playoff between st louis and houston -- an increasingly likely scenario -- the projected pitching pairing would be jason marquis vs roy oswalt. after last night's game, la russa wouldn't commit to naming marquis as his starter; it seems to have dawned on him, somewhat belatedly, that jason isn't very good and that he, as the manager, has the discretion to use another pitcher. marquis' era now stands at 6.02; unless he gets in for another couple of (scoreless) innings between now and sunday/monday/tuesday, he will set a new record for the worst era in franchise history by an era qualifier. that's a 77-year-old record, set in 1929 by bill sherdel, who posted a 5.93 era. since 1950, only 12 qualifiers in all of baseball have posted worse era's than 6.02 -- and 4 of those guys pitched in coors field, including darryl kile, whose  6.61 era in 1999 is the 4th worst since 1950. also on the list is our own chris carpenter (6.22 in 2000 for toronto, 7th-worst). heck, dave n' tony turned kile and carpenter around; maybe . . . . . ?

just kidding.

jason's 16 losses are the most by a st louis pitcher since 1990, when the last-place cardinals had two 17-game losers (magrane and deleon). if tony comes to his senses and finally cuts bait on marquis, here are are his options for tuesday:

  1. weaver on three days' rest
  2. narveson
  3. thompson
  4. sosa
  5. hancock
i think i would go with thompson, with hancock next in line to take the baton. i also -- and this is not a strategy i would normally advocate, but these are special circumstances -- might order the pitcher (whoever it is) to hit a batter early in the game. and make no bones about the intention. the cardinal players are no cowards, but they look like a frightened team; perhaps it's been so long since they were in a streetfight that they're wary of close contact. or maybe they know -- with no izzy, no eckstein, half an edmonds -- that they're fighting with one arm tied behind their backs. whatever. i think they need to be pushed headlong into the scrum, forced to start throwing punches. if they don't get out of that crouch and unwrap their arms from their heads, they're going to get beaten to a pulp.

Comment 198 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The truth hurts
Well said, lboros.  While this is awfully depressing to watch "it is what it is."  Pressure peels away the veneer and brings true character to light.  Unfortunately our Cards numerous weaknesses are being exposed for all to see.  I agree with their need to enter the fray - they need something to get them engaged in the fight.  It's ridiculious that they still have a chance - let's see what they do with it.  Whether it's hitting a batter or something else, I see that as TLR's job.  True leadership demands that his troops come to the fight ready to go and determined to win - something we haven't seen much of the past two weeks.  Houston is focused and serious - and we need to be.

Is TLR's future in question if we pull "the biggest collapse ever?"

by wildman on Sep 29, 2006 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Couldn't Agree More
"they already don't belong in the playoffs.

so if the cardinals do, in fact, miss the playoffs, i won't lose a minute of sleep over it. the guys losing sleep will be the new york mets and all their fans. you think they want to face clemens oswalt and pettitte? they're all rooting like hell for the cardinals -- probably harder than some of us are. they, not we, may be the real losers if st louis completes its collapse. i daresay even some of those american league teams are pulling for our guys; of all the nl teams they might wish to avoid in the world series, houston probably ranks at the top of the list. just what we've always wanted -- the whole baseball world is rooting for the cardinals!"

I couldn't agree more.  I have a friend who's a Mets fan and he's scared shitless that the Astros are going to make it and steamroll everyone else in the NL playoffs.  He's rooting for the Cardinals pretty hard now, especially considering the latest developments with Pedro.  Imagine if the Mets had pulled off that trade deadline deal and acquired Oswalt?  We wouldn't be talking about the Astros right now.  

I hope we miss the playoffs and it wakes management up.  Is it even worth making the playoffs at this point?  The team is a shell of its' former self.  I think it's better to not make it and avoid suffering the humiliation of a first round knockout by San Diego or the Mets or whoever we'd end up playing.  

"I only am who I am because I was born that way. I have a gift and I'm trying to not be selfish about it, but to use it, OK? Jealousy will get you nowhere!"

by I Bleed Cardinal Red on Sep 29, 2006 9:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Mood Rings and Thermometers
If Card fans were polled this morning, what would be the split if queried concerning Marquis remaining in the rotation? 85-15? 90-10? 95-5? 100%?

This forum features the voices of grim realists, and rose-colored optimists, and all the shades in between. I count myself closer to the former than the latter. Being a baseball fan since '67 has taught me how many ways things can go wrong, if nothing else.

My first reality check this season came during the Great Trampling of June, when the Cards visited the South Side, then Detroit, then experienced further ignominious humiliation at the hands of the ROYALS, and so on. The ship listed then, and has never quite righted itself. At that point, I experienced the bitter deja vu of the '04 Series, and overwhelming feelings of being mismatched (outgunned?). My first sensations of "this-team-may-make-the-playoffs-but-do-I-really-want-to-go-through-this-kind-of-rout-again?" surfaced. If nothing else, the LaRussa years have made us somewhat accustomed to October baseball (Hello, Cub fans!), imbuing us with a "Hey, no big deal, bring it on" attitude. Playing these first and second rounds is no longer the end-all scenario. We expect bigger things. 100 win seasons will do that to you. But with this team, after that horrible stretch in June, I suddenly lost my great reserve of October Anticipation. It just didn't feel right. I waited for the team to prove me wrong in July. In August. In September. But, aside from a few glimmers of competence (thank you Albert and Chris) they haven't.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 29, 2006 9:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Somebody start a fight....
I still think a Cardinal team, leaping from the bench to collectively punch Oswalt (insert name of your most infamous Cardinal villain here) in the face, would have done more to fire this team up than anything else they've done.

Last night, I was hoping and praying that Duncan would've punched Marquis out there. Knock him on his rear, and show the rest of the club that they deserve better than that "I don't give a rip how I pitch" Jason Marquis. I have stood up for players that just didn't play well; shoot, I even stuck up for Mulder this year, but for crying out loud, the whole team walks into the ballpark knowing they are gonna have to push for double digits at the least, whenever JM was pitching.

I still cannot believe that he has gotten worse and worse (wanton profanity omitted for the sake of other readers).

So, our season comes down to Weaver. Hopefully we can get Blondo a lead, and hopefully he looks far better than that (wanton profanity omitted again) thing we had on the mound last night.

And to think, Redbird fans started the season booing Encarnacion and Izzy!

by fuegophil on Sep 29, 2006 9:25 AM EDT reply actions  

That's great ...
now we're entertaining the idea of mass pugilism to chase away Cardinal incompetence? Gimme a break.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 29, 2006 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
The Cards hopes need to be based on something more baseball-talent-related than throwing at a hitter.  I was excited after reading AP comments after the last win, but that didn't translate into anything yesterday.  Nor did the fans' booing.  I was at the game, and I overheard several fans calling for the pitcher to hit a batter or for a runner to take someone out.  But this is not what good teams need to do for a win, and it only makes a bad game situation worse.  "Lighting the fire?"  "Shake up the players?"  Why can't these adult millionaires be self-motivated consistently.  Side note: the fans sure gave Edmonds some love last night.

by redrey on Sep 29, 2006 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question
the 1 game playoff w/ the astros is considered a regular season game, right?  with the extended 40 man roster and not the playoff roster, thus making narveson a possibility?  just making sure b/c narveson won't be on the playoff roster, marquis or no marquis.

I still can't help but think that this team will get it done.  (of course, I didn't watch last night's game either).  We can't win 2 of 3 at home vs. Milwaukee w/ Weaver, Suppan, and Carp going?  I can't see the Astros sweeping the Braves and extending their winning streak to what, 11?  Too far fetched.  We may have to play Monday but I still think we'll get it done.  Maybe this season's driven me completely insane.

by chuckb on Sep 29, 2006 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

yes, the one-gamer
would be a reg-season game, so all the september callups would be available

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet
Dennis Tankersly to the rescue!
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Screw that...
call Gibby up for one more start.  I'm confident that even now, 45 has more gas in the tank than Marquis, Narveson, Tankersley or anyone not named Chris Carpenter.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

There was an awards dinner late last year
or early this year.

Rolen was standing - he didn't grab a seat for some reason.   Gibson had just sat down near him; someone asked Rolen why he hadn't just grabbed that seat.

"I was afraid Gibson would kick my ass."

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

This team really needs...
someone with Gibson's temperament.  We're missing that "knock you in the mouth, don't f-ing mess with me" attitude.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

or the talent
that that attitude sometimes comes with.

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was there
That was the second to last game at Busch II, when they presented the All-Busch team or whatever they called it. I noticed that Rolen gave up his seat for Gibby from section 304.

by liam on Sep 29, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

A one game playoff
would be considered a regular season game - both teams could play with their 40 man.

One other thing to consider.  Lets say:

St. Louis goes 1-3 in it's last four
Houston goes 1-2 in it's last three
Cinci goes 3-0 in it's last three (vs Pittsburgh)

Now you've got a three way even after the Monday Cards/Giants game.

The possibilities are facinating.

A Cubs fan just visiting

by brianp88 on Sep 29, 2006 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

there could also
be a three-way (or four-way) tie involving the wild card. ie, houston and st louis (and/or cincy) could end up tied for 1st -- and have the same record as philly or los angeles for the wild card.

i bet fox would love that . . .

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its unlikely the Cards or Houston can catch the wi
could catch the wild card at this stage.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Management
There are several ways in wich we can evaluate this 2006 team:

The apologists will point to injuries.  Honestly, how can we not give them SOME credence.  Any team that loses their 2nd or 3rd best bat, a gold-glove center-fielder, their leadoff hitter, their #2 starter, and their closer SHOULDN'T win.  

Take Oswalt, Taveras, Burke, and Lidge from the 'Stros, and you basically have no team left.  Notice that their dramatic comeback has coincided with the rebound of the team's health.  The basically got Clemens back from the DL after the All-Star break.  

From this point of view, we should be ecstatic that we even have a chance to make the playoffs.  The Cubbies have seen much the same injury trouble we have seen, and they have fallen to the worst team in the national league.  

With that being said, I still believe that TLR has to take SOME of the blame for the gross mishandling of this team.  LaDuncan had to know that Izzy was hurt earlier in the year.  Maybe if they shut him down for a month earlier, he could have come back.  AT LEAST he could have had his surgery and been ready for opening day next year.  Heck, I don't know, maybe we are all scapegoat hunting, and it is easy to villify the manager.  I'll use the Cubbies again.  Dusty Baker took a thin, aging Giants team to the playoffs time and time again, even with personalities like Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds in his clubhouse.  Now, the Cubs can't keep a healthy pitcher, Lee goes down with injury too, and somehow it is Baker's fault that the Cubs can't win with what amounts to a triple-A ballclub!?  

Look, as I see it, I very much agree with you LBoros, if, in April, we were told that we would hold a 1/2 game lead over the 'Stros, wouldn't we be satisfied with that?  I mean, most of the pundits and even us, the fans, expected us to win the division, but with a razor-thin margin of error.  

Anyhoo,  I still think that TLR is not the man for this team any longer.  We have gotten younger, and he cannot manage young players.  I hope for our sake that we don't trade away all our great young talent just to keep LaDuncan happy next year.  I can handle inconsistency from young guys.  They will learn how to win.  I am really excited about a future team with Pujols, Wainwright, Reyes, Duncan, Hancock, Narveson, and company.  We just have to be willing to endure a bump or two in the road to get there.  

Lboros, sorry for my continued rantings, but it sure does make me feel better.  Thanks for the great site!!!  

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Sep 29, 2006 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

You also have to look at management
When the biggest trade you can swing is Belliard for Luna or picking up a DFA'd Weaver when you've got all those injuries you've listed, there's clearly a problem.

The fact that management didn't pick up more guys to bail us out as the ship was sinking just seems to indicate that they thought that what we had and making it to the playoffs (cross your fingers::hopefully).

Obviously there are plenty of people who have at least some measure of responsibility.  You'd think the ownership would be willing to spend a little more money this year just so that people wouldn't associating us not being that great with the new ball park and new radio station.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want to sound like a TLR apologist
but, while he has screwed up some moves, I just can't help but turn away from him and point to Jocketty/Dewitt.  

I know that, given the precipitious dropoff in talent as you go down this roster, let ALONE go down the pitching staff, I couldn't have done crap with this team.

OTOH, that makes me appreciate the bright spots.    All hail Reyes, Wainright, and Duncan.  And maybe even some of our young/cheap relievers.

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd add
that i don't think that tlr has managed appreciably worse this year than previous years.  he's going to account for a certain range of losses a year (let's say 10-15 - a bickerable number), and he has certainly accomplished that number this year, but he's not the difference in this year's team in comparison to 04-05

by sdesserman on Sep 29, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sunday's start
Great perspective as always, lboros.

On the subject of the rotation, if anyone is interested, I've got a diary here making the case that, if the team has a chance to clinch Sunday, it might make sense to hold Carp until Monday. No evidence that Tony is listening to me.

by DCGreg on Sep 29, 2006 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I say no
clinch when we have the chance and let's get the day off Monday if possible.  Plus, pushing carp back a day would have implications for the playoffs, assuming we might play more than 3 games.

by chuckb on Sep 29, 2006 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

but it won't
because Friday would be an off day in the NLDS, he could start game 3 (next Saturday) on regular rest regardless of whether he pitched Sunday or Monday

by DCGreg on Sep 29, 2006 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

play with some rage or something
steve phillips on espn flat out said noone wants to see us in the playoffs because we are just uninteresting, others root for us because we will be an "easy" first round opponent. get mad boys. hell, at least maybe end the season with 1 stinking win?

on a side note, if by some miracle we make the playoffs marquis will be upset he is not on the playoff roster, marquis is clinically insane. if he had sanity he would not be able to show his face to his teammates EVER again. id like to see him committ sepuku myself. you are garbage marquis. go home.

by 2ndprize on Sep 29, 2006 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Can we...
insert Marquis as a pinch-hitter and make a deal with the Brewers staff to throw at him?  ;)

Seriously, it's well past time to give up on him, and yet I have this horrible feeling that he's going to get re-signed because of a weak FA pitching market.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 10:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't have high hopes
for the coming offseason, but I don't think we need to worry about Marquis gracing a Cardinal uniform again.  He's burned all his bridges, plus the ferry, the launches, every canoe and all the jetskis.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 29, 2006 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget
the paddle boats and that goofy three-wheeler thing with the giant wheels that floats. And sailboats, battleships, aircraft carriers, submarines....
Be Selective

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

NOT THE DUCKS!
How will we ever tour the Wisconsin Dells now?
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

In
quiet solitude. RIP ducks.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha
This post inspired me to kill a little friday time with this, our worst of nightmares.  Like the Friday the 13th movies ... Jason won't just stay gone:

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is classic.
You win the comments.  Game over.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did
that really just happen? That's WAY too much free time...LOL
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah
it was just maybe 5-10 minutes.  Find the duck photo, find the marquis photo resize in Photoshop and paste.  Cut out around the steering wheel and Voila!

Can you imagine the Halloween haunted house that has people dressed up as Jason Marquis running at you with a contract extension and a pen.  Frightening.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm laughing so hard...
i think im going to pass out. best picture ever.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rough Week
Per the Elias column on ESPN.com, the Cards lost something else this week:

"Minnesota's victory and Detroit's loss creates a tie for first place in the AL Central. It's the first time this season that the Twins (who've played 159 games) have been in first place. It's the latest point in a season that a team reached first place for the first time. The previous record was held by the 1964 Cardinals, who gained a share of the top spot for the first time following their 158th game."

by Cardinal70 on Sep 29, 2006 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

lets at least learn from this...
if we have the biggest collapse in the history of MLB, hopefully the front office learns one thing. what is important is pitching, pitching, pitching, then pitching, some more pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, more pitching, and lastly, pitching. then you can worry about who is in CF or 2B.

i just dont understand how tony la russa teams can have these collapses. in the WS in 2004, that NLCS with atlanta, he even got swept with an A's team by a vastly inferior reds team.. maybe tony should change the way he goes about approaching and preparing his teams for playoff situations.

by 2ndprize on Sep 29, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Bingo.
You hit the nail on the head.  Personnaly I think for whatever reason he puts too much pressure on his guys and they cave mostly.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

why I *need* the Birds in the playoffs
Two weeks ago, I visited a Cubs-fan friend for his 40th birthday.  Several jokes were made ("any team can have a bad century", etc.) at the expense of my friend's allegiance to his team.

He asked, almost pathetically, "When do I get to start razzing the Cardinals' fans?  The Cardinals haven't won a World Series since 1982."

This is the primary reason I need the Cardinals to make the playoffs.  Obnoxious Cubs fans (not all, just the obnoxious ones) will be talking about 2006 for years if they think they had any hand in keeping the Cardinals out of the postseason.

Looking at the season as a whole body of work, I completely agree with lboros that the Cardinals don't deserve an appearance in the postseason.  However, if they can pick themselves up and dust themselves off and make it in, they'll "deserve" it in the sense that when they had to (this final weekend), they won.  (Sort of a relative maximum thing.)  If they don't, it's gonna be a long offseason.

Quietude, MdRedbirdFreak:  I'm starting the rumor right now that TLR is planning to teach Marquis to play middle infield so he can keep his bat on the roster for 2007.  :-)

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 29, 2006 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

And when they talk about it
you'll just laugh out loud and slap your knee, right?

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cub Fans ...
have zero leverage in this argument. Just laugh.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 29, 2006 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

But the Cubs
didn't have any more more to do with this than the Pirates, the Royals, the White Sox, the Astros, etc etc etc--every team that beat the crap out of us all season long. In fact, when the Cubs actually could have personally knocked us out of first place (the last two series) they rolled over and died as usual. Remind your pals of that.  

by rockin redbird on Sep 29, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

All good points, but
my experience has been that logic doesn't matter to most (not all, most) central Illinois Cubs fans.

However, Alberticus Maximus and Preston Wilson took care of last night and somebody (didn't get to see the last 3 innings today) took care of today, so hopefully, at this point, my concerns are moot.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 30, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

So I Go
Hi all. I've been a silent follower of this site all year; I can't remember a day, in fact, in which I haven't awoken and headed to the computer to see what lboros would have to say about the team, along with the other posters here, no matter where i've been on the road. And it's been a long year. I live in Atlanta (hence the tag) and grew up near St. Louis, and this has been one of my most cherished ways to follow the team (along with MLB Extra Innings).

The Astros are in town tonight, of course, and it appears as though they are riding in like a rabid foal. It just dawned on me this morning ... I mean, not that they are coming to town .... but after all the sleep I've been losing in the last week-and-a-half; after all the silent moments on my couch, in front of the TV, in the dark of the room, letting the remote fall uselessly from my lap, without the energy to pick it up; with the rally cap turned in and then back out and then several more rally caps drug out of the back of the closet; with my framed Busch Stadium picture from 1996 collecting dust on the wall (the year they brought the fences in and put the grass in and started playing Baseball Like it Oughta Be played); the Post-Dispatch white playoff towels; the seats I ordered from old Busch; you know, all these things, these reminders, they are just too much to absorb every day and not wind up in this situation and not get my ass up and take it to Turner Field, where I will be tonight, representing everyone here--the anger of everyone here; the frustrations of everyone here; the hopes of everyone here ...

and I'll have a cold beer in my hand, and I'll be sitting somewhere cheap,  but I'll be louder than anyone in a half-empty Turner Field screaming for the Braves to kick the Astros' ass and for the Cardinals to make the playoffs.  

by AtlantaBird on Sep 29, 2006 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

That's the spirit!
i wonder if the actual players are capapble of waking up like that.

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

another Atlanta Cards fan
I live in Atlanta as well and have always enjoyed rooting for the Braves (except when they play the Cards, of course!).  I have always admired the class and character of their organization, thinking that it was so similar to what the Cardinals represent.  After this year, I'm not so sure.......  Anyway, my cheering for the Bravos will reach an all-time high this weekend!  I can't make it tonight but am planning to go Saturday & Sunday.  Represent us well tonight - go forth and conquer!

by wildman on Sep 29, 2006 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be there on Sunday...
doing much the same thing. We usually only go to the Ted when the Cards are in town, but this weekend is way to important to leave to Braves fans to cheer on their boys without help.

by bkwelker on Sep 29, 2006 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

great post
thanks for weighing in AtlantaBird --- and for representing the Nation at turner tonight.

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

The hours nearly gone
I really appreciate it. I love the site, really, I do. I decided it was time for me to post, in this dark hour--I don't know why I haven't posted all year. The Cardinals are a huge part of my life, and have been since I can remember them playing the Twins when I was seven years old; and even though they've been a terrible team for most of the year, all the ups and downs, mostly downs now in these past few months, they're still the Cardinals, and I still want them to win the World Series--yeah, I know, that sounds inane--but when it comes down to it, every year, that's what I want, and by god we're still in first, even though we hang there like a piece of gum from under a schooldesk.  

Even now I hope there can be magic. I desperately root for it. Like game 5 last year, in the NLCS, when I was resigned to the off-season and what was to come, that feeling ... and then it all changed in one swing.

That's why I'm going. Besides .... the Braves owe the Astros one.

Go Cards.

by AtlantaBird on Sep 29, 2006 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent post ABird
You captured all the Cards fans emotions of the past week in one eloquent post.
"Don't fail to miss tomorrow's game!" - Dizzy Dean

by jdubya on Sep 29, 2006 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's just me
but this Cardinals team doesn't seem as good as the last couple of versions. Idunno.

by Pokey Joe on Sep 29, 2006 10:31 AM EDT reply actions  

What?
You're crazy!!
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Scary Scenarios
Lboros and a few others have touched on this, but take a quick peak at the rotation and how it will play out over the remainder of this year and possibly into the playoffs...

Fri - Weaver
Sat - Suppan
Sun - Carpenter

I'm assuming we HAVE to win 2 of those or Monday won't even be an issue. Preferably, we need to win Fri and Sat and get that 1.5 game lead back heading into Sunday. Then you can save Carp for Gm 1.

If that doesn't happen, we go to

Mon - Reyes ---- the kid is solid, but our entire season resting on him? I won't feel good about that.

Tue - Marquis v Oswalt in Houston. If this happens, why even bother making the trip down there? Disgusts me to even think about it.

BUT, what if....what if Reyes and Marquis come through and we claw our way into that 1st round matchup with the Mets...then what?

Gm1 on Wed at Shea and who takes the mound to face the lefty loaded lineup? Jeff Weaver.

Ugh.

Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Sep 29, 2006 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah
the possibilities are ugly.  If we have to play that game in Houston we'll need to  find a way to sneak the pitching rubber in about 10 feet every half inning.  

I'm OK w/ Reyes vs. the Giants, they won't be thrilled about making the trip, in fact Alou already said as much.  It'll be like a playoff game, the crowd should be pumped, etc.

So if we can find a way to avoid using Carp on Sunday, we should but I'd say that train left the station last night.  We absolutely have to win 2 out of 3 b/c the Braves will win at least 1, won't they?  And Smoltz goes on Sunday if the game matters.

by chuckb on Sep 29, 2006 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean
sneak the rubber in every inning.  And maybe move it back to 70 feet when Oswalt's pitching.

by chuckb on Sep 29, 2006 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong
But no scenario has us facing the Mets in Round 1 unless the Phillies win the wild card.  Since that looks unlikely, we'd probably be playing at the Padres or Dodgers depending on which team wins the West.

by stlmapman on Sep 29, 2006 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

correct
yeah, if everything ended today we'd be heading to San Diego ... I guess I just got caught up thinking of all the bad matchups and weaver vs the mets was too bad to not mention...
Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Sep 29, 2006 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's it.
The Albert Pujols miracle jersey goes on today--I was saving it in reserve for the playoffs, but seeing the team not hang their head and die is more important.  

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

This may be
the worst collapse according to numbers (7 game lead lost), but really, I don't see this as a "collapse" or "choke". Those terms should be reserved for good teams that unexpectedly fall apart at the last minute, ala Cardinals WS '04. Now THAT was a choke. This is just the chickens coming home to roost. It sucks, but to look at it as some mindblowing tragic end to an otherwise decent season is to ignore the fact that they have sucked all season long and only the otherworldly suckiness of the entire division allowed them to remain in first place at all. The only surprise to me is that it took till now for one team (Stros) to remember how to play baseball. "Historic" collapse or no, this will not go down in my memory as the horror it's being advertised as. We've all known since AS break this was gonna happen--either in regular season or playoffs. My only hope is that the owners feel some kind of embarrassment from all the bad press and actually do something about it in the offseason. Unfortunately, I think we're gonna have to deal with at least a couple more seasons like this before anything changes. Welcome back to the 1970's.    

by rockin redbird on Sep 29, 2006 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

i am with you rockin
but obviously the management isn't feeling too embarrassed. if you read miklasz's column today and heard hrabosky and mclaughlin on tv last night, the ownership is once again feeling victimized --- they take any criticism as an unjust affront.

that sort of attitude does not bode well at all for our little fan base . . . .

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yikes...
that is an absolutely awful reaction by Jocketty as portrayed in Bernie's column... He's got to get on the radio or something and clear things up.

He has generally been a stand up guy in his years here. Granted it has been mostly good times, but after '99 and '03 I don't remember him scapegoating... he just buckled down and made the team better.

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bull crap
This was a choke.  They Cards are getting 2 hit by guys with 5.XX ERAs.  The pitchers they are faceing as losing to are replacement level AAA guys.  Its a chocke in every sense.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope...
A choke is when you are a good team, that lets the pressure of a tough situation make you suck. This is a bad team, playing bad.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're wrong zubin
about the quality of pitchers they are facing and losing to.

going back to the series in milwaukee, when this whole mess started --- they lost a game started by chris capuano (no shame in that), beat ben sheets (kudos), and lost to a hot rookie -- a bad loss. in houston they lost games started by pettitte, oswalt, and clemens -- and scored runs off all of them, only to have the bullpen (or carp) lose the games late. in their one game vs a replacement-level pitcher, when houston started jason hirsh, the cards beat the hell out of hirsh only to have the bullpen blow the game.

vs the padres, they beat the hell out of the replacement pitcher (thompson), but carpenter blew the lead and they lost. they faced sd's two best pitchers, era-wise, the next two nights (williams and young) and split vs them.

last night was an ugly loss --- but not because they failed to hit. they lost because they got put in an insurmountable hole early. that's on marquis, and more to the point it's on the stubborn manager who keeps running him out there.

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Respectfully, I disagree.
If they lost 5 or 6/9, I say its a run of bad luck and tough opponents, but 8/9 is extremely unlikely.  I know the bullpen is bad but it just can't be that bad that consistently.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not disagreeing
with your premise --- if they don't win the division, it can only be described as a choke job.

i'm only disagreeing with the portion of your post that states they're losing to AAA replacement-level pitchers. that is not true; the only replacement-level pitcher they lost to was milwaukee's villanueva, in the 1st game of the losing streak --- and he, don't forget, threw a no-hitter at triple A earlier this year.

and his ERA in 10 big-league starts is better than any st louis pitcher's except for carpenter, so it's not exactly fair to characterize him as a pushover.

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

to qualify further
i still maintain that, no matter how it turns out, this doesn't compare to 1964. to repeat for the zillionth time: the phillies were a good team who suddenly turned bad. the cardinals are a so-so team who suddenly turned bad.

big, big difference.

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on that point,
but in the end, history won't considered it much, especially if Houston goes all the way.  (Think of the Cardinals like a Mercedes,  the percieved quality higher than the actual quality.)  In the end, people will just remember how the ownership, team and its fans choked.  
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm confused
I thought the Giants game got rained out @ Busch. Wouldn't they come to St. Louis? Why would we go there?

Also I have been thinking really hard about this and although it might not work everytime it is something that should be considered. I think the Cardinals need an Eddie Gaedel type player to pinch-hit in front of Pujols in close game situations. Or pinch hit when we are down by 1-run in any part of the line-up during the ninth. It's a guaranteed base-runner. Then pinch-run for him when he gets on. I am writing this half-humoredly but when you sit and think about it, it kinda makes sense. There probably is some rule about it now though.

Eddie Gaedel was the St. Louis Browns player that was about 3' 7" and wore the number 1/8

Be Selective

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

They would
come to St. Louis.

And I think midgets were outlawed from baseball after the Gaedel stunt.

by Nate811 on Sep 29, 2006 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't
think you can outlaw anybody. Bill V. did it as a publicity stunt. The Browns were in last place and it was all for getting butts in the seats. But it is a legitimate idea. If it worked every team would start doing it. I really don't care how you get a baserunner, just that you do. This way almost guarantees it.
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

They did
There is a minimum height requirment in MLB

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is it?
Have the "league minimum" then. Is it short enough? Just need a razor thin strike zone. Need walks. Wouldn't it be cool to have a player that never took an at bat but was instrumental?
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, someone should challenge it
no way it stands up in a court of law.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Questions
Ok under what circumstances would they play Houston? I thought a tie wnet to the stros because of the season series? so why would they play?

and how do the Ginats figure into all of this?

Could you guys make it clear on both levels for me...

by punchinjudy on Sep 29, 2006 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

tie going to a team based on the series record
only works if it's a two teams tie and one of the teams would make it as the wild card regardless. Since both teams make the postseason anyway, it really doesn't matter who the "champ" is. Like that stupid Houston - StL thing from, what, 2002?
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Will we be better next year?
Please Ownership, I beg you, allow Walt the financial flexibility needed to fix this team.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Backup Team
I call Dibs on becoming a Twins fan.

by DimitroffVodka on Sep 29, 2006 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

I'll take the easy route...
and root for the Yankees. They will steamroll their way through October, leaving only the broken empty dreams of the other teams in their wake.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I live in Brooklyn, so
I'll take the dodgers (for history's sake)

by redbirdbrain on Sep 29, 2006 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Monday Start
Great post iboros

I think everyone underestimates the weird, personal damage that the Ankiel debacle had on Tony.  I've seen him talk about that awful game against the Braves like other people talk about combat or a car wreck.  He feels personally responsible for the kids' professional and personal demise - and it eats at him.

This, I believe, accounts for his unwillingness to rely on young players in pressure situations.  He certainly did not have that problem in Chicago or Oakland.

If that's right, that means we're looking at Weaver (on three days' rest) or Sosa.  I think Sosa could give you 5 innings and 2 or 3 solo home runs.  Not too bad for a team that has an offense.  But we don't.  And we don't have a 9-inning 3-hit shutout option.  So better bring the bats, boys.

Remember, we're likely to have to win 2 of 3 w/ Brew-Has to make Monday matter.  I think Weaver's the right guy tonight, but I doubt it'll matter b/c our whole team curls up in a fetal position anytime somebody steps up on the pitchers mound with a glove on their right hand.  Count on 4-1, 5-1 loss tonight.  That's a BIG load on SoupCan and Carp.  

I'd LOVE to wait Carp til Monday's game, or even to a playoff(s) on Tuesday (and Wednesday, in a 3-way) but I dont' think we'll have that luxury.  After tonight, we will have must-wins Sat and Sun, followed by a must-win v SF on Monday, followed by must win playoff v HOU (with maybe a must-win v. CIN in the middle just for fun) -- and IF we win ALL of these must-wins, we get to go to NY or SD to start the playoffs.  The pressure will be "off" for the first 2 games of the LDS in the since that, if by some bizarre quirk of fate we make it there, they'll be the first two non-must-win games in more than a week!

Good luck.

Weave me a dream, tonight, Jeff.
Get lots of sleep, Soup and Carp.
Sosa - stay ready.

by ITouchedMcGee on Sep 29, 2006 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: the one-game playoff...
with Houston...

Wouldn't it be fun (and potentially effective) if TLR lined up Weaver to start, then, a la Whitey, sent Narveson into right field so he could swap him in to face the 2-3-4-5 lefty part of the Astros lineup?

This sounds kind of nutty now, but Whitey used to do it, although I can't remember if it ever really worked...

What makes it practicable is that the Stros bat Lamb-Berkman-Scott-Huff all back to back instead of alternating them. Or at least they did that last time the teams played.

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 11:35 AM EDT reply actions  

At some point after Whitey had been
doing that with Daley and Worrell, I believe a rule was passed to keep managers from doing that.

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...
wasn't aware of that...

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rule?
What rule?  There can't be any limit on how a manager employs his personnel, however wackily.  The situation described is no different from pitching a position player in a blowout or having a pitcher pinch-run.  Folks have proposed limiting the number of pitching changes that can be made in an inning, but to my knowledge no such rule is in effect.

by jfs on Sep 29, 2006 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...
how you'd craft a rule to combat the Whitey gambit, but from a strategy perspective it would seem to work well with the Stros practice of lining up their lefties against Weaver.

The reality is that Marquis can't pitch. That leaves Narveson or Weaver.

Lamb-Berkman-Scott-Huff, in the two games on 9/12 and 9/24 against Weaver, went a combined 8 for 20 with 4 doubles, a triple, a home run, 3 walks and a sac fly.

Righties went 5 for 20 with a double, hr, 2 bbs and 5ks.

Narveson, in his two games against the Stros on 9/13 and 9/22, got the aforementioned lefties to go 1 for 5 with a double, 2 walks, and 3 ks. Strangely, the righties actually did worse - 2 for 14 with a double, a homer and a walk.

Bottom line: Narveson seems all around better, but after seeing him a couple times I suspect the Stros could tee off. Weaver can truly be dominating against righties but he's equally bad against lefties.

Also, putting Narveson in right field would likely make Garner's head spin and he might do something crazy like pinch hit for Scott or Huff in the first inning.

We are desperate after all.

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe the rule
states something about swapping a pitcher out and bringing him back.  If I have time this afternoon, I'll try to find it.

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes
but as long as he never leaves the field, it's still cool to bring him back to the mound. Hence, it would work, legally. Will never happen, of course, but would be legal.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

look at rule 3:03
link

it states:


Rule 3.03 Comment: A pitcher may change to another position only once during the same inning; e.g. the pitcher will not be allowed to assume a position other than a pitcher more than once in the same inning. Any player other than a pitcher substituted for an injured player shall be allowed five warm-up throws. (See Rule 8.03 for pitchers.)

8:03 simply refers to the number of warm-up pitches that can be thrown.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay
So you can basically rotate between two pitchers as long as they are both on the field at the same time, but you can only swap them out once an inning, right?

It's not going to happen, but these silly rules are still fun and why I would never want to be an ump or official scorer.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This rule would be a problem...
if they alternated lefties and righties, but the Stros don't do that.

Announce Weaver as the starter, let him pitch to Taveras/Biggio leading off, then swap him for Narveson to face the next four lefties. In the second inning start off Weaver again on the mound, swap him out if it gets around to Lamb, and so forth. You only need to swap them once per inning.

Ok, fantasy hour is up, let's talk about something that might actually occur.

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technically
there is a catch there. It doesn't say that you couldn't bring in a lefty to get the last out of the 8th and the first out of the 9th, while parking your righty who can't get out lefties (Looper, maybe?) in the outfiled, bringing him back when the danger has passed.

Purely hypothetical questions: in that hightened circumstance, could you have a reliever pick up a hold and a save in the same game? Or have a starting pitcher save his own game? I'm guessing common sense would have to intrude at that point.

Oh, the burden of stupid people.

by Solanus on Sep 29, 2006 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need someone...
to leaf through the box scores on retrosheet during the Whitey years to see how they score that... Start around 1983 or so...

I'd do it myself but the paint is almost dry...

by guayzimi on Sep 29, 2006 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

If pulling this stunt
kills the save rule, then it will have already done a massive service to baseball

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that rule is silly
if you're willing to eat up two dead spots in the order, it should be totally ok to do this.

Regardless, with the way that HOU stacks its lineup, this rule wouldn't much get in the way of doing what was suggested above.

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't wait to see the first
"switch-pitcher," i.e., a guy who can pitch with both arms.  Yeah, I know, the odds against it are incalculable (at least the odds against such a guy being a major-league caliber pitcher from BOTH sides).  But think of the possibilities ... 1 guy filling 2 spots in the rotation, for instance?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 29, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe that there has been one
wore a six fingered glove so that he could switch it from one hand to another

by Valatan on Sep 29, 2006 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd imagine...
Antonio Alfonseca wears a six-fingered glove, but for other reasons.  :D
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

His name was
Curtis King I think.  He played for Philly- though I am unsure he switch-threw in the majors.

I believe several ninteenth century ball players also threw from both sides.

The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Expos pitcher, maybe?
They actually showed him on Sportscenter in the last day or 2.  Or maybe it was the 30s I saw of Pardon the Interruption.  

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greg Harris
He did it once in a game, I think.  Also think there was one back in the 1880s or so.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 29, 2006 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy Van Slyke
was quoted about him (paraphrasing): He can throw with both arms, right? That makes him amphibious.

His Baseball-Almanac page lists him as throwing (and batting) both ways. They also list three other players (all pitchers) as being ambidextrous: Tony Mullane (1881-1894), George Wheeler (1896-99), & Moxie Manuel (1905-08). No mention of Curtis King, though.

Oh, the burden of stupid people.

by Solanus on Sep 29, 2006 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pat Venditte Jr.
He's at Creighton:
"If another guy throws 30 pitches one day, I know I'm not going to be able to use him the next day," Servais said. "With Pat, if he throws 30 pitches, and 15 are right-handed and 15 are left-handed, I know I can come back to him tomorrow."

Entering his Junior year, now.

by liam on Sep 29, 2006 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tony Mullane
Mullane was the guy in the late 19th century, I think. He's mentioned in that article linked from the word "Creighton" in the post above.
Mullane, who pitched in the 1880s and '90s, wore no glove and would face the batter with both hands on the ball before throwing it with either one.
The article also says that Greg Harris switch-pitched an inning for the Expos on 9/28/95.

by liam on Sep 29, 2006 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Problem with it is...
you can't change arms in the middle of an at-bat.  All pitches have to be delivered to the batter with the same arm.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there really a rule
about that?  And even if there is, no problem, as long as you could change arms after each batter.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 29, 2006 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not in the official rules...
but the AL had a set of umpire guidelines for it:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news_story.jsp?article_id=mlb_20000303_holtzman_cols& team_id=mlb

Of course, it's been 11 years since it even came up, so who knows what the reaction would be now.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Makes Sense
You can't switch a pitcher more than once in an at-bat.  I would think the arguement could be made that the pitcher could go from one side to the other in the at-bat, but that's it.

But really, would you want to, since it's all about getting the side advantage?

by Cardinal70 on Sep 29, 2006 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the reason for it
is because it might conflict with the balk rule. You would have to establish & maintain a certain way of pitching so as not to deliberately fool the baserunner. But you could change it from batter to batter.
Oh, the burden of stupid people.

by Solanus on Sep 29, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Devil Rays
I get the Rays so there is no chance that I will ever get my hopes up and have another disappointing season like the one the Cards are having. We will forever just SUCK! Ha HA on you!
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Sep 29, 2006 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Chances in the playoffs
There's a slim chance.... don't forget that at one point last september, the white sox won just 4 games during a 14 game span.  They were on the verge of collapsing out of the playoffs before they kicked it in the last week and went on to win the WS.

Okay we're waiting for the last week-end instead, but we can still pull this thing out.  And like lboros says... its just 3 series, anything could happen.  If Bennett gets on fire again or Duncan has another hot streak, or even spiez, we could pull it off!  Really!

Btw, anyone really look at marquis on the mound last night?  Have you ever seen a more uncomfortable looking pitcher ever?   I wanted to jump through the TV and just scream at him "GET THE BALL, PITCH, GET THE BALL, PITCH!"

Maybe it was "I need to soak this in, because it's the last time I'll ever pitch." searching he was doing.

by redbird2006in on Sep 29, 2006 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks Pokey Joe
Everyone, please scroll up to see this comment if you missed it:

--------------------------------------------------
Maybe it's just me
but this Cardinals team doesn't seem as good as the last couple of versions. Idunno.

by Pokey Joe on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 06:31:38 AM PST

--------------------------------------------------

That had me laughing pretty hard.  I needed that.  

The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Please somebody check Weaver before the game
if he has the "deer in the headlights" look that Osborne had in the 7th game of the '96 playoffs, please SOS the Cardinals dugout.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Clemens
heres my thoughts tonight...
Dear Roger,
I know tonight is possibly your last regular season start, at least for this year. We all admire you for the great pitcher you are, and all the sharades you have done over the past 3-4 years. Who else in baseball has ever had several farewell parties. You my friend are the "KISS" of baseball. With that said I hope you just fall apart tonight in ATL, because we all know we will see you again next year around February deciding who to play for and when. Yes you may have earned the right, but not the right to escape critisim. The only thing better than you loseing tonight, would be a one game playoff where the Birds chase Oswalt and you come into relieve and we all hear how you are on short rest, and about all your great relief appearences, and the brids give you a hefty parting gift...

You may say Im a dreamer...

Truly yours

Punchinjudy

by punchinjudy on Sep 29, 2006 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

playoff favorites
if houston makes it in, i like their chances better than the yankees. we could see an oakland/houston WS and how painful would that be? watching the team that dumped mulder on us and stole haren go against the team i hate more than any team in any sport, even more than the detroit redwings. damn you houston, and damn you billy beane!

by 2ndprize on Sep 29, 2006 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Gee,
2004 and 2005 sure were fun.  All good things must come to an end.  Bummer.
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Sep 29, 2006 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Gee,
2004 and 2005 sure were fun.  All good things must come to an end.  Bummer.
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Sep 29, 2006 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

HECK
everybody in the NL is not very good. If we get in, who knows? This team isn't great, but it isn't horrible.(For the NL) Houston CAN'T keep this up! The Braves are no push-overs! Cincy Shmincy! Boo Brew Crew! Yeah Cards! We have stripped this team down statiscally, we know what we got, all we got left is to cheer and hope (pray) for the best. I'm going down in a blaze of glory with my team and not jumping off the wagon!

We are the Cardinals!
The Mighty Mighty Cardinals!
Everywhere we go, people want to know!
Who we are, so we tell them!
We are the Cardinals!
The Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm trying to
keep us paid here. I like to have that "reassuarance" that my rents paid.
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good to see...
Mostly upbeat comments this morning from everyone. By that I mean it seems that everyone is pretty well resigned to the fact that the Cardinals are what they are...a mediocre overall team...that is in 1st PLACE with three or four games to play.  If we make it to the playoffs?...I agree with those that are saying that anything could happen as there really is not one dominate, overpowering team in the NL. If they don't make it to the playoffs, well..they pretty much are getting what they deserve. As to the future...well I for one don't think we are going to see this ownership pull a "Arte Moreno" and say publicly, for all to hear...the check book is open over the winter! I don't think we will ever see them go out and really pursue top dollar FA's to tell you the truth.  I do think we will see  more deals of the Encarnacion, Bigbie, type..and unfortunely more DFA pick up's when and if they become available.  I guess it comes down to this for me...I don't belive we have owners who LOVE the game of baseball, or have a inbred LOVE of the Cardinals and thier tradition. I think we have finally come to the same reality as many teams in Baseball. Guys like Gussie Busch and Wrigley, and the O'Malley's...are things of the past in baseball...owners who didn't know perhaps much about the in's and out's of the game...but LOVED it with all their hearts. It's a corporate world now, and I think we have to come to grips with that as our future.

by Timbo02 on Sep 29, 2006 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I disagree about the owners'
love of baseball.  I think the main guys really do love the sport, I just think their business interests are just a little stronger than their love of the game. And if I were playing with millions of $$$ of my own money, mine might be too.  But of course, I agree with you about what they'll probably do in the offseason.  And I do expect to see a lowering of expectations this winter.  A lot of talk about how we need to rebuild, it may be rough going for a couple of years, etc.  And I'd really like to see a true rebuilding job, and a team being honest about it.  In fact, I believe that the brain trust might have come to that conclusion themselves by the time of the ASB.  For whatever reason, the word "rebuild" hasn't crossed their lips publicly, but I'll bet more than a few people in the front office gave up on this team in July.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 29, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are probably right...
about them loving the game also...It just seems to me that there is a loss of personality and uniqueness in the overall ownership of MLB.
I find your thoughts on the ownership pretty much giving up at the AS break an interesting concept. And after watching the Marlins...I'm not so sure that perhaps they might have the right idea. Their payroll is what? 15 million? and they had as good a season as the Cards did...well mostly.
I wouldn't mind seeing them re-build for a couple of years...and find some young guns to put around Albert.

by Timbo02 on Sep 29, 2006 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't think they gave up at all
if they were giving up, they wouldn't have taken on the extra salary from weaver and belliard's contracts. even sosa added close to $1m in payroll.

sadly enough, i think they believed those moves would shore up weaknesses and position the team for a run in october.

by lboros on Sep 29, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely off topic post.
Is our good old boy Al Reyes out of baseball for good? He was huge for us, and after he went down he really vanished from the face of the earth.

by dan8260 on Sep 29, 2006 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

been asked earlier
As I understand it he had surgery and was rehabbing.   Now he's pitching in the minors for the Tampa Bay organization I think.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tampa Bay AAA
so, yeah, pretty close to vanishing from the face of earth.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahem
As the Durham Bulls are the closest I can get to MLB, (without making a 4 hr trek to DC) I resent your characterization, Alex. ;-).

I never saw Reyes pitch this summer, but I wasn't at very many games.

by calico30 on Sep 29, 2006 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh
don't get me wrong... when I used to live out in NC (Emerald Isle) the Bulls were the closest we could get to semi-decent good baseball (The Tide, Kingston Indians, and whatever the hell that Raligh team were all sucked) and I always enjoyed doing a weekend road trip to Durham w/ my boys whenever the surf was down, but Al Reyes deserved a better fate than that of tampa Bay AAA.

Either way, though: Hit Bull. Win Steak.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha
Hit grass. Win salad.

For me, the trips to the minor league ballparks are mostly about feeding my need to sit in a ballpark in the sun & watch professional baseball being played.   My husband (not a big sports fan in general) has asked me to explain why I need this every summer, and I have no answer for him.  It just makes me happy.

I agree with you about Reyes.  Hopefully, he will see better things next year.

by calico30 on Sep 29, 2006 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget about next year
Don't be shortsighted here folks.  Those of us who are waivering about whether or not we even want to see the Cardinals make the playoffs this year need to keep in mind that revenues coming in from home playoff games could (in theory) be applied to payroll for next year's club.  It is clear to me that they are going to have to shell out money for a top-flight pitcher (Schmidt?  Zito? --though I am not too big on him) to help out Carp, Reyes, and Wainright.  Hosting 1 or 2 games will not put the Cards in a place to have a $100 million payroll next year, but bringing in some money is a whole lot better than not bringing in any.

by Irishman on Sep 29, 2006 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Crazy talk..
they've brought in boatloads all year, a couple playoff games wont make any difference. Maybe it would let Bill Dewitt buy another beach house in Malibu.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's about
equal to a $10M increase in revenue overall from making the playoffs and then about $1.5M/game, according to hardball times, with a few more $M for making the WS.  They used it to make the argument that Houston actually wasn't paying anything to resign Clemens if he got them to the playoffs.

Definitely not trivial.

You either get all the glory or all the... goat hair. -mike shannon

by SleepyCA on Sep 29, 2006 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tonight
Tonight is a night that I'm going to stop thinking about baseball.  I'm going to drink some beers and I'm going to watch two of my favorite bands.  I'm going to refrain from thinking about baseball.  And when I get home, I'm going to find us 1.5 games up again.  I've tried alot of things this year, so maybe the proper thing is to completely ignore the team.

Though, one of the bands is from Chicago, and are Cubs fans, seems pretty likely they're going to give us all a hard time...oh well.

Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Sep 29, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

What bands
Bowen?

Perhaps they could bring us some mojo.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

the bands are
The Lawrence Arms and The Draft.  Playing at the Creepy Crawl in St. Louis if anyone happens to be interested.  Doors open @ 7.  I dunno about mojo though, one band from Chicago, the other from Gainesville.
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Sep 29, 2006 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahh the creepy crawl...
I haven't been since they switched locations. The old one was such a dive, but I still loved it.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep
The old Creepy surely was a great place to see a show.  I'm looking forward to checking out the new location.  It's really the only punk club left in St. Louis since the Hi-Pointe closed last month and the Galaxy has been closed for a couple years.  Mississippi Nights is still cool, but not even close to the same vibe.
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Sep 29, 2006 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember back in the day
I went to go see Descendents, Guttermouth, and Less Than Jake at Mississippi Nights.  That was a great show.  The venue on the other hand ...

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

sweet
I would like to see the Descendents some day.  I really like Mississippi Nights.  I saw some of my all-time favorite shows there.  
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Sep 29, 2006 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

lawrence arms
wow, im jealous bowen.  I love the Lawrence Arms, have all the albums, but they never come east.  and consequently I haven't seen them since i left the midwest.  

by jroman on Sep 29, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am
pretty lucky.  Being from Chicago they play here in St. Louis at least two or three times per year.  And The Draft is 3/4 of Hot Water Music, so there's no way in the world that they're not amazing.
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Sep 29, 2006 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

tonight
I'm going to drinks some beers and follow every damn pitch I can.  Why?  Because I'm a Cards fan and that's what I do.  No matter what happens from here until the end of the season, I'll still look forward to opening day and more cardnials bb.

by redrey on Sep 29, 2006 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

My plans
I'm DVRing the game and attending the Illini Hockey season opener. Jon Spencer's sideband, Heavy Trash is in town, too. May see them after.

And whenever I see a TV, the peepers will be glued to it.

by liam on Sep 29, 2006 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

College hockey...
is one of my newer passions...and I just got my confirmation for the Frozen Four in April 2007 in St.Louis. Went to the Frozen Four in Boston a couple of years ago and it was one of the best times I can remember.  

by Timbo02 on Sep 29, 2006 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

here is a thought on payroll
I have lived in TX,IL,ID,WI,WA...and have traveled alot of places...in any given sports shop you can always find these teams but not limited to....UNC Yanks BOSOX and several mlbs teams at least have one hat if not all of them...But you will find a variety of Yanks stuff..Bosox as I said UNC....Dallas, and STL i have always found a STL hat wherever i go, and at times ones that I havent found closer to STL...I say that just to say that this orginization is within the top teams as far as market goes..IMO Ynaks would be #1 worldiwde..but cards have to be in the top 20 if not 10...

in my understandings MLB and the teams I believe share these proceeds

by punchinjudy on Sep 29, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

oh man...
that was Brutal to read.....

by Timbo02 on Sep 29, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a little disappointed...
that he didn't mention the originator of the "Brad Lidge face."

Some guy named Al...

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Sep 29, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's all about the pitching
always has been always will be. management needs to recognize that since they don't have any top tier starters coming out of the minors next year they have to spend on Schmidt or Zito.  everyone knows my preference but if they don't go out and acquire some pitching next year, we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Albert and a healthier Rolen can keep the offense at a reasonable level but the pitching has to get better.  

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Sep 29, 2006 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Man
I'm at a lost on who we should try to pick up, though... who do you recomend? Zito?
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 29, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we are going to
subject ourselves to mediocrity and not go after a "big-name" pitcher, I think we should go after every available Colorado pitcher.(I don't care about how high thier ERA is either) Colorado adds at least 1 ER to a pitchers stats. They would be going from super thin air to air so thick you can cut it with a knife. (It's the Humidity!) Breaking balls would bite, sliders would sink, fastballs would tail. Confidence would grow. There is Zito and Schmidt, then there is everyone else. It doesn't matter who we get.
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Jennings and Josh Francis...
would look great on our roster.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there a stat
on what ex-colorado pitchers did after they left?
Eddie Gaedel for the 2-hole!

by OKCardsfan on Sep 29, 2006 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

From Hardball Times
              Home R/G       Road R/G
Pitchers       4.74           4.87
Hitters        5.53           4.31

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/out-of-thin-air-mdash-the-new-coors/

by sdrone on Sep 29, 2006 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anybody know if it's possible...
to get a usb cord and run a feed of the game tonight from my laptop to the tv? I'm being told that it can be done but that the picture wouldn't be great.  Any suggestions?

by toris34 on Sep 29, 2006 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

laptop
what kind of tv will you be using?

by jeff abs on Sep 29, 2006 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm
If your PC doesn't already have video out then it's really nothing simple.

There are plenty of USB dongles that let you get TV on your laptop but there isn't really a usb device that will convert video on the screen out to composite or whatever.

This is assuming you've got the games streaming to your laptop (via the internet) and you're trying to get that on your television.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 29, 2006 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO Usb cord
No usb cord can do it but your laptop might have a yellow slot in the back for AV output to a TV.

by DimitroffVodka on Sep 29, 2006 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easiest way
Would be to convert your VGA out to composite (RCA-style) video using something like this. You could probably pick up something like that at Radio Shack. You'd need a 1/8" TRS to stereo RCA for the sound, too.

by liam on Sep 29, 2006 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think the way you do it
is get a video card that has an S-video output jack, which takes a coax cable. There might be a way to do it over USB if your TV has a USB input on it, but I doubt it.

by nota bene on Sep 29, 2006 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its easy
If you have a s-video connection.  just hook your computer to the s-video and extend the desktp to the tv.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but you need audio
so you are going to need to split the earphone jack into to left and right RCA jacks.  You can get most of this stuff a Radio Shack.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 29, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

IHBP
i think i would go with thompson, with hancock next in line to take the baton. i also -- and this is not a strategy i would normally advocate, but these are special circumstances -- might order the pitcher (whoever it is) to hit a batter early in the game. and make no bones about the intention.

Pretty sad that we're reduced to this but I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I wanted Duncan Sr to tell Marquis to plunk somebody on purpose, just to get some fight back in him. The batters opposing Marquis in particular are just not afraid of him (and why should they be?). He needs to be throwing inside, and if the pitches get close enough to count the stitches, well....maybe he can start getting the outside corner.

Mercifully, I think Marquis will be relegated to the pen from here on out, if we ever do see him wearing the Birds on the Bat again....

PS I'd suggest starting Narveson instead of Thompson, but it's a tossup either way.

by nota bene on Sep 29, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

spit soda out on my tie
Short excerpt from ESPN story:

This is a rattletrap car of a club . . . .  These guys are gamers, no doubt, but there's just too great a chance that the kids at home would be exposed to sustained periods of Preston Wilson and Scott Spiezio if [Eck, JEd or Rotten] go down, and that's just not fair to the kids.

by ITouchedMcGee on Sep 29, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Been listening to ESPN radio all day
I don't think we received this much press in the 04 Series!  Nothing like an impending catastrophic collapse to get some national media attention! But I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope we could WAKE UP and shut the naysayers up in a hurry....

by I heart eckstein on Sep 29, 2006 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

hehe
amen about need for pitching, id like to see us overpay for suppan and sign a bigtime #1/#2 starter type. one thing ill take away from marquis is, a league average pitcher is not to be taken for granted, and i would say suppan is slightly bove league average with the ability to pitch above his head in big games.

as far as the talk of a pitcher who can throw from both sides, cold pizza had a college guy on, and he said he can only switch once, if he changes its done for the game, cant change per batter, or even per inning. id imagine mlb rules are even stricter. there wouldnt be much point to it.

as far as this collapse thing, i dont want it to happen even if to us it isnt that big of a collapse, because we seen em lose 8 in a row twice and 7 and seen plenty of other periods where oru boys were just plain bad. the problem is everyone outside st louis will see it as the biggest collapse ever, regardless.  

by 2ndprize on Sep 29, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

John Smoltz was on KFNS today...
and he has every intention of treating his start on Sunday vs the Astros as if it were a playoff game. Go Braves.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Umm, do we want the Braves in playoff mode?
For some reason the word "winning" isn't what comes to mind when I think of the Braves in playoff mode.

by bailorg on Sep 29, 2006 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man everybody is taling about a one game play-off
or possible Mets matchups?  I am scared shi+less that by Sunday we will be 2 (1.5) games back and the SF make-up, much less any kind of play-off just won't matter.

Go Braves!

The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow
you make me look like an optimist.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 29, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitching for next season
I honestly think we should make a run for Zito, but here's my justification:

He's younger than the other stud (Schmidt). He provides an EXCELLENT contrast to Carpenter going 1-2 (as opposed to this year's Carpenter and a bunch of pitchers not as good throwing similarly).

Someone mentioned this last month: if you want to make a run, one last run, for the WS, you overpay for a 5 year stud contract, and then, at the end of the first or second year, trade him (make sure it doesn't have a no-trade ;)). SOMEONE will bite.

by SirVLCIV on Sep 29, 2006 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

ironic to me...
i got into baseball when i was about 12 or so due to basic cable stations like WGN/TBS that broadcast games natinwide. much like a previous  generation became cardinals fans cause of the strength of the radio signal going so far out..  (dont worry, i liked the sox not the cubs, robin ventura/frank thomas/black jack mcdowell were my boys) the braves at the time were breakin in rookie pitchers like glavine and smoltz. a young exciting team with potential. those two teams got me hooked..i watched smoltz grow up.

ive moved around and always been a hometown team guy, but you dont escape kansas without being a jayhawk fan, you dont get outta montreal without rooting for the canadiens, and even if i left st louis/missouri ill be a cardinals fan for life.

and now, smoltz, a pitcher who made me a fan of the game 15 years ago, i will depend on to help save my cardinals from the worst collapse in the history of the game. i like it.

i cant think of another pitcher id want out there going up against the astros with cardinal pride on the line. espn had a neat stat, smoltz, the winningest right hander in post season history, will face off against andy pettite the winningest left hander in postseason history. what a game..

i love baseball, and im right handed, go smoltz! beat that lefty so bad he wants to become a righty!!

by 2ndprize on Sep 29, 2006 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Is there any chance we put up
a big inning early?  Ease my tortured soul?

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 29, 2006 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Its completely possible,
but be prepared for our starting pitchers to oblige the other team to score equally.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

back to fuegophil's point....
It is sad that we started out booing Marquis and JuanE.  As you said, the truth of the matter is that the fans haven't changed, it's just that the team evolved into a worse mess than it was at the beginning of the year.  

Although Juan got a bit better (league avg player?), Izzy sure as hell didn't.  But the other players have been so poor that I have actually come to think of Juan as our 2nd best hitter right now.  Really, it's that bad...

Here's to the hope that the Cards find something to play for, even if it is the hottie in the front row.  And pray that the Jeff is Weaving tonight, not bobbing.

by DuncanDipper on Sep 29, 2006 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I have nothing against guys like Juan'cion.
or Miles.  They are playing at or above their ability.
The '06 Cards- The New '64 Phillies?

by Zubin on Sep 29, 2006 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
Although I didn't like starting Miles at 2nd instead of Luna, the guy has stepped it up and played EXTREMELY well in place of David.

About guys like Aaron and Izzy - I don't think any one of us questions their effort. They try, and Miles hustles, and Izzy tried to play hurt for the team (we've been sooo great without him, AW is what? 2 for 4 in save oppurtunities?). You may question Juan's hustle, but I don't even think that is justified.

by fuegophil on Sep 29, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Marquis looks like
and has for the entire second half, like he just couldn't care less about the game, the team, the fans, or even his teammates. That's the only reason I CANNOT STAND the guy.

by fuegophil on Sep 29, 2006 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

would you...
seem to care if a home crowd of 40k+ were booing you the majority of the time?  not an excuse, but understandable reaction, even from a 28 year old adult millionaire.

by redrey on Sep 29, 2006 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at Marquis' start against Cleveland
And he looked like he couldn't care when he walked to the mound. We were in the middle of an 8-game losing streak, and he acted like, oh, who cares if I pitch like an AA pitcher.

I will never believe that the fans caused or enhanced his performance. To me, if he was concerned about what fans thought, he would step up and perform better. Grief, you have to earn fan support, and giving up as many runs as outs you get is not the way to do it.

You have to show effort. IMO, Marquis didn't. When he did, he was a better pitcher than what we have grown accustomed to seeing.

by fuegophil on Sep 29, 2006 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree
Marquis isn't hurt, he's just not competing. I feel bad that Enc got booed, but Marquis started sucking ass and then got booed. Not the other way around. Marquis has earned the boos.

by nota bene on Sep 29, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course
bad performance before boos ensued.  But my point was that maybe he doesn't show that he cares because the fans don't give a hoot about him.  I'm certainly not arguing that the fans caused his terrible performances- I don't think anyone knows the answer to that for sure.

by redrey on Sep 29, 2006 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe
he doesn't show he cares because he doesn't.  maybe it's his lack of caring (and performance) that caused people to boo.  i'm not sure there's an answer to your chicken/egg conundrum here.  does he appear to not care because people booed as he was virtually single-handedly crapping away the remnants of the season, or people booed because he appears not to care as he virtually single-handedly craps away the remanants of the season?

by sdesserman on Sep 29, 2006 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquis maybe the first
pitcher with a great sinking fastball who refuses to keep in down in the zone.

by TBender on Sep 29, 2006 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

About Izzy . . .
Although I don't know what we can judge about Izzy's year since we have no idea how long he was injured.

If I've lost massive trust in anyone this year it's the Cardinals brain trust regarding medical issues.  It's their responsibility to find out how injured their players are and get issues fixed instead of just hoping things will magically get better.  The team's handling of Izzy and Mulder utterly shocked and depressed me.  That isn't even mentioning the hitters. I think this team would be in a far better position now had TLR seen fit to give Eckstein, Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds a few more days off throughout the season.  

by bailorg on Sep 29, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed

Search

User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

N1046613005_8392_small
Our 2010-2011 strays

by d-dee 1 day ago

29 comments | 14 recs

649494__1__small
Hall of WAR: Part 2

by stlcardsfan4 12 days ago

20 comments | 6 recs

Recent FanPosts

Hahaha_small
These were a few of my favorite things (fink reminisces about the 2011 regular season)

by a fink about 15 hours ago

9 comments | 4 recs

Dsc01844_small
Cardinals take the Governor's Joplin Challenge, will help build 35 homes for torando victims

by MizzouCus 5 days ago

0 comments | 2 recs

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Relief Pitching Edition

by stlfan 7 days ago

16 comments | 3 recs

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Starting Pitching Edition

by stlfan 8 days ago

11 comments | 2 recs

Small
Two Trades That Set the Cards Back in the 70s

by Hammer_83 8 days ago

6 comments

Nyc_small
Cardinals Offense vs. Reds Offense - 2012

by Religiously Reds 9 days ago

19 comments

Nyc_small
Cardinals Rotation vs. Reds Rotation - 2012

by Religiously Reds 10 days ago

31 comments

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Center Fielders

by stlfan 10 days ago

12 comments | 1 recs

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Recent Posts

In Association With

Baseball Nation Recent Stories

Juan Pierre of the Chicago White Sox waves to the fans at U.S. Cellular Field in Chicago, Illinois. (Photo by David Banks/Getty Images)

Juan Pierre Could Set A Major League Record In 2012

SCOTTSDALE, AZ: Buster Posey #28 of the San Francisco Giants runs drills before a spring training game against the Los Angeles Dodgers at Scottsdale Stadium in Scottsdale, Arizona. (Photo by Rob Tringali/Getty Images)

SI.com: Buster Posey's Comeback Trail

ANAHEIM, CA: Angels owner Arturo Moreno stands between Albert Pujols #5 and C.J. Wilson #33 at a public press conference introducing them as newly signed Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim players at Angel Stadium in Anaheim, California. (Photo by Stephen Dunn/Getty Images)

Baseball Teams Set To Get Even Richer Thanks To Local TV

More from Baseball Nation >

Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols