Game 142 Open Thread: September 10, 2006

suppan gonzalez
11-7, 4.39 3-7, 5.64
Well, we just got Carp'd last night, plain and simple. At least this time it wasn't Ramon Ortiz doing the dirty work. It took Webb 96 pitches and an hour and 45 minutes to carve up the Cards; even Gibby would be proud. Webb certainly has a solid case for NL Cy Young. Webb's tied for 1st in the NL in the win column with 15 W's, and his 3.00 ERA is 2nd behind only Carpenter. Coming into the game Webb's Win Probability Added was 3rd in the NL with 2.92 and you can imagine throwing a 1 hit compete game shut out will only boost that up all the more higher. His 19 Win Shares is also tops among all NL pitchers. It'll be interesting to see how Carpenter, Webb and Oswalt pitch the last month of the season in a race for the hardware.
Marquis was good, but not great and managed to cough up his league leading 33rd homerun. But the alarming trend as of late is how anemic the offense has been, scoring an average of 2.55 runs per game in the month of September. Outside of Albert and some good games from Molina and Spiezio, not a soul is hitting much of a lick. So while the pitching has begun to somewhat stabilize (Reyes rough outing aside), the offense has gone to pot. So it's been with this strange 06 version of the Cardinals.
The Cards go for the split with Jeff Suppan versus Enrique Gonzalez. Suppan has been a different pitcher since the All Star Break. I don't have lboros's table-drawing skills, so you'll have to work with bullet points here.
- ERA pre/post All Star-5.83/2.24
- K per 9 4.6/5.6
- BB per 9 3.1/3.4
- HR/9 1.32/0.84
- Hits/9 11/8.4
This isn't the first time Suppan has turned it on in the 2nd half. Last season Soup went 7-3 with a 2.78 ERA after the AS break.
Out of all the Cardinal starters that are becoming free agents this offseason, Jeff Suppan may be the most desired to return. It can't be because he has the best stuff of any of them, it's just because for the most part you know what you're gonna get with Suppan. You know he's gonna chew innings, you know he's gonna usually keep you in ball games, and I think most of us know he doesn't have a head full off broccoli and cheese. He's not as easily rattled as Weaver, nor is he as flaky as Marquis. He's not a pretty boy like Mulder. He's Jeff Suppan, who keeps his mouth shut, does his job, and gives the tv announcers their "word of the day" and is religiously devout. He's likeable, or at least I like him. He's a California guy, so I wouldn't be shocked if he bolted for LA or San Diego next season. But I do hope to see him around still in Cardinal red next year and I can't say that about any of our other FA to be starting pitchers.
As for Enrique Gonzalez, he's a rookie facing the Cardinals for the first time in his life so who knows what we'll get here. Looking at his minor league numbers, he projects to be a solid middle of the rotation guy who has just hit some rough bumps in the road thus far. Hopefully the offense can wake up and take advantage of someone who's been quite hittable. Enjoy the game.
Oh, and one last thing. Vote Pujols for the "Marvin Miller Man of the Year Award" this season. Can't have DUI'er Ryan Freel represent the NL Central.
mini-disclaimer:That's not to say Freel is a horrible person for havin' a DUI or 2, and I can't say I'm not glad he is doing some good in the community. It's just that a lot of us know what the superstar Pujols does on his off days in order to do some good. [UPDATED]Joe Strauss at the P-D ran a story this morning about the upcoming free agency market, be sure to check it out. It mentions the prospect of resigning Suppan, as well as waiving bye-bye to Jimmy Edmonds. I think what struck me the most was the title of the article "What could the Cardinals buy with $26 million?" Is this an indication that payroll will stay around the same in 07? And is 26 mil enough to get a top of the line starting pitcher, a #4 and possibly #5 starter, a new center fielder, and a 2nd baseman? Just getting a top flight starter like a Jason Schmidt and a CFer (Strauss mentioned Torii Hunter, not a move that would thrill me. Sooner see Juan moved to center.) will cost the biggest chunk of $26 mil alone. What also could be seen as worrisome is the fact that now the club seems to be rather sold that Duncan will continue to produce and therefore the the aging Jimmy could be shown the door. $26 doesn't seem like enough to replenish the rotation with 2 or 3 starters, get a regular 2nd baseman not in the Miles mold, a CFer, and some bullpen arms and bench to boot. It'll be interesting to see what happens this winter.
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207 comments
Comments
Nice synopis on on the Soup-Can
Jeff. Suppan. Outpitched. Roger. Clemmens.
by Zubin on Sep 10, 2006 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't worry about Freel
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 2:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
October sighting...
I hope they can have a surge when needed.
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on Sep 10, 2006 3:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points lboros.......
Boy. That's like 2 hits off 2 starting pitchers. I guess not even Albert is swinging the bat?
As for FA pitchers, maybe Supp will realize he's by far the most appreciated starting pitcher in St. Louis, outside of Carp. And he is one case where TLR's tendency to stick with moderately good veterans often pays off. The thing that is often overlooked is how often he gets matched up with a great pitcher, and goes out and matches them, raising his game to another level to keep the Birds in contention. I hope he's in Cardinal red next year.
by fuegophil on Sep 10, 2006 7:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great post erik
by azruavatar on Sep 10, 2006 8:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hair and pitching
Marquis - His head is shaved. He is bad
Weaver (Joe Dirt) - He has a mop on his head. He is bad.
Suppan - nice head of hair. He's pretty good
Reyes - He has good hair, but his hat throws off his potential. He is pretty good.
Carpenter - His hair makes women cry. He is awesome.
Now obviously I think too much. But if every player cut their hair like carpenter, we might have 5 aces on our staff...
(I am being sarcastic)
by OKCardsfan on Sep 10, 2006 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't necessarily have to be
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And have you noticed
by Zubin on Sep 10, 2006 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes has a good haircut?
by liam on Sep 10, 2006 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The P-D Article
by BigMac545 on Sep 10, 2006 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OT: Who You?
by DimitroffVodka on Sep 10, 2006 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm not a broncos fan
my winter sport is college hoops --- i root primarily for mizzou, secondarily for the other in-state schools (slu, missouri state).
by lboros on Sep 10, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
free agency
by Bullet Bob Gibson on Sep 10, 2006 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damaged goods...
by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2006 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, every time I read about him
by sdrone on Sep 10, 2006 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm pass
He's projected to have a negative VORP for the next 5 years. He doesn't hit for great average (only one EqA over .260 in the previous 3 years), doesn't hit for ANY power(03-05 had 4,7,7 HR totals respectively) and doesn't walk enough to compensate for his other deficiencies(high in OBP is a .354 from 03-05). And o yeah...he gets hurt alot(02-05 played 67,125,153,29 games). I hope the Cardinals stay FAR away from him.
I don't want someone who is fun or gives 100% effort if they aren't very good.
by azruavatar on Sep 10, 2006 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, today we get
Well, at least he's not a lefty too (shudder)...
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rams football...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Control pitchers
I'm not concerned with a 9 game sample size in reference to an ailing offense. Little soon to be worried. After all, we did score 6 runs in a third of those games.
by RedbirdRay on Sep 10, 2006 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Make that...
I think the concern is still the same. A short span of games didn't mean or offense went down the drain. Unfortunatly, it didn't really mean our pitching got better either. Regress to the mean, regress to the mean, regress to the mean.
by RedbirdRay on Sep 10, 2006 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go Cards!
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of a homegrown replacement
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 10, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mets
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
trade idea
by thefordhamflash on Sep 10, 2006 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no thank you
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 10, 2006 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
el lineup del birdos
C. Duncan lf
A. Pujols 1b
S. Rolen 3b
S. Spiezio 2b
J. Encarnacion rf
J. Vizcaino ss
Y. Molina c
J. Suppan p
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 10, 2006 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
now that's a different look
by erik on Sep 10, 2006 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes to miss his next start
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis on short rest
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and
"them" isn't specified, only referred to previously as the Cardinals, but I assume it refers to TLR/Duncan.
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dontrelle Willis just three-hit the Phillies...
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 10, 2006 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we found our bats
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where was Hudson?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 10, 2006 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Leadoff walks
by Intheway on Sep 10, 2006 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a pathetic team...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ugh
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone seeing that
This is the kind of thing that will freeze Gameday for a halfhour
by Intheway on Sep 10, 2006 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All Molina had to do was
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This team
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok not really..
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have mercy
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 5:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
next yr CF options
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'd sooner see
after seeing that play, i'd like to see juan on a plane elsewhere...ergh. poor soup.
by erik on Sep 10, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Yadier
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi through to 2B
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soup picked him off 1st.
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is setting us up
by Intheway on Sep 10, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pathetic
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When is the last time...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably a Rhetorical Question
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 10, 2006 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on Soup
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
defense...
by cardsfan2222 on Sep 10, 2006 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gameday still has
by Intheway on Sep 10, 2006 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this is like
by lawman3842 on Sep 10, 2006 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just signed in...
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
God that was pathetic
Get your heads out of your asses guys, damn...
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched a lot of the Little League WS
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and now Soup is crumbling...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
end of a horrible inning
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's that....
No way on this planet can we score the 6 runs it is going to take us to win this game.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2006 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's even harder to watch us lose
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well so much for the split
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thank your deity
Argument at the plate!
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
arguing over strikes?
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
presumably
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they called
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who is the old moron
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Garaglia (sp?)
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's definately lost it.
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All they seem to want to talk about
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was Garagiola
What the hell is he doing calling a D'Backs game anyway?
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stunning commentary
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure his kid
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that would be SOUL patch
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgive me...
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Garigiola...
Joe is best known as a long time broadcaster starting with KMOX, with Harry, then went on to do the NBC game of the week for many many years (some of the time with Vin Scully). Joe was also on the Today Show for many years.
I know his son was/is GM and later VP with the Diamondbacks. I actually didn't know Joe was alive until I started picking him up on MLB.TV.
Joe is as St. Louis as they come.
Bob Uecker was always the poor man's Joe G. as Joe made a career of poking fun at himself.
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 10, 2006 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard the humor alright
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One season
He was referring to Yogi Berra.
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Joe
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey,maybe Tony getting tossed
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What did he get tossed for anyway?
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't see him get tossed
by liam on Sep 10, 2006 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never Mind That
Today?
by liam on Sep 10, 2006 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and every other cardinal
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
who thinks Tony got ejected to
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, was Tony ejected?
by Squeaky on Sep 10, 2006 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Consequently...
Nice one, Hombre! Cards up 5-4
by liam on Sep 10, 2006 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugly strikeout by kid dunc
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
45!
And the Cards have the lead again.
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dumbass
by Big Red on Sep 10, 2006 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to think it is a manager
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EL HOMBRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well gamecast is way messed up
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You should try MLB TV at
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now some good defense
by liam on Sep 10, 2006 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GWRBI
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope that's the case but
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Niice Defense, Speeeeezzzio
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone else getting sick of these little kids..
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 10, 2006 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Spezio!
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By God, Speizio I want for next year too
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this pitcher Tony Pena's son?
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tony pena pitching
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So
by aet15 on Sep 10, 2006 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his ERA must be 99.99
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love to see our guys battlin'
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
way to go suppan
by mattybobo on Sep 10, 2006 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i already apologize for the dumbness of that post.
by mattybobo on Sep 10, 2006 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was clever
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 10, 2006 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here
headache two days in a row
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
squeeze play
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Suppan impresses the hell out of me today
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Izzy out for season
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Edmonds?
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 10, 2006 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of expected that
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no Wainwright today
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Congrats Adam
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyler Johnson
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
someone on here mentioned umps
oh and brother jared got some jeff luck Figgins loses one in sun that knocks him out of game..
by punchinjudy on Sep 10, 2006 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
speez
by erik on Sep 10, 2006 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank God for Speez today
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This may have already been posted earlier
Instead, Marquis will pitch the series closer on three-days' rest.
According to Goold, Reyes approached the training staff after Friday's start complaining of a tired arm. Hopefully, it's nothing more than that.
by steve in georgia on Sep 10, 2006 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say this but that walk to bring up Gonzo
by BozoJones on Sep 10, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Flores...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So who closes?
Thompson?
by Intheway on Sep 10, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
close?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flores sucks...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So does Josh Kinney....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
flores is terrible with inherited runners
by erik on Sep 10, 2006 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Darn it
by cardsfan84 on Sep 10, 2006 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
damn
by jdub176 on Sep 10, 2006 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the good thing is
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Abner just
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
apparently not
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
grrrrrrr....
Suppan really got jobbed today... freakin bullpen
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
back to back...
this game sucks.
by mattybobo on Sep 10, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's time to roll over and die...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 10, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am really tired of watching this team.
by steve in georgia on Sep 10, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
End the Sosa Experiment...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 10, 2006 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Choke, Choke, Choke
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 7:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When did we
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
June
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they need to
by lawman3842 on Sep 10, 2006 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's worse than useless
by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 10, 2006 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess when you use
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel for Soup today
by iron duke75 on Sep 10, 2006 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think abstl is right
by 1985kid on Sep 10, 2006 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oo oo oo
by Elle on Sep 10, 2006 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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