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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

of jason and jimmy

marquis has apparently stopped trying, and la russa has finally had it w him; might even be that marquis, and not reyes or weaver, will be the odd man out when mulder returns. we can hope; the team looks ill whenever marquis pitches. both reyes and weaver will make starts before jason's next scheduled turn (on sunday vs pittsburgh) and thus will have the opportunity to impress. since the all-star break:

w-l era whip hr/9
reyes 2-2 5.91 1.73 1.27
marquis 1-4 6.75 1.83 1.62
weaver 2-2 6.93 1.86 2.55

the way sosa has pitched, he may even have forced his way into the discussion -- but wait, won't he have to re-condition his arm for the rotation, same as wainwright? he hasn't started in two months, has made nearly 20 relief appearances since then. . . . . that'd be amusing, wouldn't it, if the cards carried two DFA pitchers in the rotation, while their two strong rookie pitchers man the bullpen and the triple A rotation? if it means we've seen the last of marquis, that would almost be worth it.

a writer at the Hardball Times, apparently unaware that reyes is fighting for a roster spot, thinks anthony can be a postseason factor:

Everyone knows who Jered Weaver is, but how many know that the 24-year-old Anthony Reyes has arguably been the Cardinals' best pitcher since being called up in late May? If he were not a rookie facing major league hitters for the first time, his 4.06 ERA in 51 innings probably wouldn't be as impressive, but his minor league performance record and scouting reports suggest that he could be a good number two or three starter. . . . . . when the Cardinals make the playoffs, he will likely get a chance to make a name for himself with a playoff start or two.
or so logic would dictate. . . . .

edmonds is feeling sorry for himself? i'll grant that it makes no sense for him to be platooning with so taguchi -- if they face a tough lefty in the playoffs, does gooch get the start? i didn't think so --- in which case, edmonds ought to face some lhp down the stretch . . . . that part of the plaint, i'll sign on to. the part about his 2007 option (but they promised!!!), i'm not weeping tears of sympathy over. if edmonds wants to finish out his career in st louis (and what fan would be opposed to that?), he can play like he's worth that $10m option the rest of the season; if he doesn't raise his game and the option's not picked up, he can take the $3m buyout and re-sign here for $4m, or waive the buyout and sign a 2-year extension for something reasonable -- $14 million, say.

i kinda don't think his statements have increased the likelihood that the owners will grant him extra credit for loyalty . . . .

lotta frustration afoot in the clubhouse. read joe strauss' "bird droppings" article from last weekend if you haven't yet; it explains an awful lot about this team's up-n-downness. the good news is, it's august -- per david pinto, the cardinals since 1999 have posted the nat'l league's best august record, playing .592 ball overall. that doesn't include last night's game, which drops the cards to 3-5 for the month. the astros rate second on pinto's list; true to form, they're off to a 5-2 start for the month and remain within striking distance, 7 games back (3.5 back in the wild card). houston's pitching is rounding into stretch-run form; they're 2d in the league in post-all-star era (colorado is 1st), and 3 of the 5 current members of their rotation have era's of 3.69 or better. even pettitte is pitching well lately --- 3.30 era over his last 8 starts (50 innings). houston still can't hit worth a damn . . . . the cardinals play them 6 more times and -- youneverknow -- could yet face them in the postseason.

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F'in Marquis
I listened to the game on the radio with my buddy who is a Reds fan (just moved into a new house and don't have cable yet) and I could pretty much tell how horrible Marquis was pitching just by listening to the announcers voices. I never want to see him in a Cardinal uniform again. If they bring him back it may be the biggest mistake they can make.

by lopey986 on Aug 9, 2006 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Work to do
I love the way Edmonds plays the game and I agree that if we rely on So to play center in the playoffs against lefties, I would rather the Cards not make it. Edmonds needs to step up his hitting against whoever is pitching. I would love to see him hang around a few more years and hand off the thrown to Rasmus. As for management.... they better do a lot of work and bring in some new faces this off season becasue if they do as much as they did towards the trade deadline.... We will be having this conversation next year as well.
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 9, 2006 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Hmmm...
With a name and comment like that, it begs the question: Are you Jim Edmonds?  Are you searching for a multi-year extension after your contract is up next year?  

If you are Jimmy, I was wondering if you came back after next year do you think you would need to move to one of the corner outfield spots?

by BigJawnMize on Aug 9, 2006 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

why move JEd?
his defense as a centerfielder is his stongest asset right now.  moving him to either corner just means we're accepting less offensive production from what are considered to be more offense oriented positions.  i really like jim edmonds and want him to retire in stl, but i think he needs to restucture his next year's deal to free up some money (for starting pitching, perhaps?).

by gthedamned on Aug 9, 2006 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

OTOH
Edmonds has lost a step.  you can see it when he chases balls.

I want him back next year, but I'm realizing that I can't keep marking players as "we gotta have this guy".

by sdrone on Aug 9, 2006 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would rather
make the playoffs with Aaron Miles batting cleanup and Pedro Borbon as the #1 starter than not make the playoffs.

That said, I think TLR is mixing his OF around -- he's playing Edmonds against lefties, just not all of them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Edmonds is really just speaking out of overall frustration, with the losing streak, not hitting like he's used to, etc.

by whopperman on Aug 9, 2006 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
... with you.  Edmonds had been particularly stinky against Milton in the past and So had a HR off him.  Considering Gooch's 2 for 4 night with a triple and an RBI, I'd say it was a good decision.

by punditmoi on Aug 9, 2006 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gary Mathews Jr.
Is a free agent CF after this season. Doubt we can afford him after his breakout year this year.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 9, 2006 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

that catch
is worth 5yr/$75mil to someone...

by gthedamned on Aug 9, 2006 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

that catch ain't worth a penny in my book
he's having an aberrant statistical year and teams would be foolish t pay based solely on the catch or this year.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe not
but there's no shortage of managerial foolishness in major league basball, is there?

by gthedamned on Aug 9, 2006 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to see
Jimmy stay a Redbird till he hangs em up. And what can we really get for 7 mil? I would like to see him refigure a new deal, but if he won't, is 7mil, minus a great centerfielder and a decent bat a good deal for us? Because then we get the money, but we lose an everyday baller....

by fuegophil on Aug 9, 2006 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm assuming you are losing the term
everyday loosely...

between injuries and the not hitting lefties, jimmy hasn't been an everyday player this year.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

using not losing
dammit - coffee hasn't kicked in this morning yet

well that and work makes me want to crawl under my desk and sleep from boredom...

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope he stays
No I only wish I was Jimmy. I want him to stay and hang em up with the Cards as well, but I want him to restructure his deal to be able to give the Cards a little money to go out and get us a baller to make it back to the series. I think he would do that. Thats why I have the name. I like the way Jimmy goes out there and plays. The catch he made last year always stands out in my mind. It was great, but not his greatest. But when he caught it, he didn't try to play if off like "yeh I am that good" he was all smiles and happy. I was at Busch II for the walk off and the catch against the Astros in the playoffs. He said that was the greatest feelings of his life. I think he would do what he can to take the Cards back to the series because he knows he can't anywhere else.... Oh yeah, as for Matthews Jr. He has brought his value to the moon this year, but his play won't be there next year... Just my own opinion.
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 9, 2006 10:38 AM EDT reply actions  

even if he doesn't restructure the deal
can anyone name a OF that will be worth 7 million more so than jimmy?

with the exception of Soriano or Lee (who will price themselves way to high) you can't find a CF or corner OF that is going to be worth 7 million next year.  Stick with Jimmy through the decline phase and worry about replacing him when we have to.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

the resources have to go
to a pitcher. i'd accept a downgrade in center if they used the savings to upgrade the front of the rotation. that has to be 1st priority, imho; they can't tie up $10m in edmonds if it would prevent them from bringing in the pitching help they're gonna need.

if need be they can shift en'cion to cf, then get a value-priced hitter (craig wilson? dellucci?) for lf/rf, save themselves a few million without losing all that much on the field --- and more than make up the difference by upgrading the pitching staff.

by lboros on Aug 9, 2006 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wilson/Delucci would...
demand multiple years at no less than $5million per I'm guessing... Isn't a 1yr/$7million deal for Jed preferable from a financial standpoint to another 3yr/$15million, jenc-type deal?

by guayzimi on Aug 9, 2006 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

those guys won't get
anywhere near that amount. i mean, you saw what the market for craig wilson was --- nobody's willing to pay anything for that guy. it's not that he's a terrible player; he's just not highly valued.

guys like that, who are not viewed as everyday players, are gonna get offered 1- or 2-year deals at $2m to $3m per.

by lboros on Aug 9, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm...
at that price you might be right... I wonder though, just b/c teams were reluctant to pay in prospects doesn't mean they won't pay in cash... Checking out the outfield free agents over at Cot's Contracts, it's extremely thin and CLee and Sheffield are going to stay where they are. Prices could rise...

by guayzimi on Aug 9, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If this team can't afford to retain jim edmonds
at 7 million and get a top of the line pitcher than these owners are seriously penny pinching.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive by any means.  We already have about 6 million being spent between our corner outfield positions w/ Enc and Duncan.  A 13 million dollar outfield is less than any one position in the Yankee's outfield.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree
brian giles settled for a 3yr/30 million dollar deal last offseason.  jimmy is a much more productive player both offensively and defensively at a much more important position.

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Amen...
given the lack of options in the minors and on the open market, why would they cut him loose?We'd be left with jenc, duncan, and ?, which amounts to just about the worst outfield in mlb.

Up until this year, he absolutely ripped left handed pitching... It's definitely possible the 88 abs he's had so far against them is something of an aberration.

Even if he can't be used against lefties at all - which is quite a stretch - a centerfielder that plays above average defense and puts up a .295 .404 .536 against righties is worth $7 million. Get Jose Cruz for peanuts to bat against lefties and dump So!!!

by guayzimi on Aug 9, 2006 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Failing an Edmonds resurgence...
...next year's OF:

LF--Duncan, RH (Marti?) platoon
CF--Juan Encarnacion
RF--Free Agent like Trot Nixon (2 years/12M)

I'm cringing as I type this but, IMO, Juan was signed as the CF backup plan in case Edmonds doesn't return in '07 or '08. (Much like Looper signed for '08 closer role.)  With the pool of FA CF's thin (Pierre, Cameron, Hunter, ack!) it opens up the number of guys that you can sign.  And since Duncan isn't locked into LF or RF, that opens it up to all FA outfielders.  This makes it more likely that you'll get the bat you need and less likely that you'll overpay.  

Look, we're not getting Cameron and paying him the same amount as Edmonds would get next year.  We're not going to overpay for Hunter.  We sure as hell better not get Juan Pierre.  

If you could live with the hit you take defensively with Juan in CF, it would buy you a year to get to Aaron Rowand and Vernon Wells, FA after '07.  Or, it at least gets you a year or two closer to the Colby Rasmus Experience.

meat

youneverknow

by meat on Aug 9, 2006 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

JEd
I hope we sign him to a 2 year 12-14 mil extension.  Or at least pick up the option.  But Jimmy can't complain, he's been paid pretty well here.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 9, 2006 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

How bout
Jose Cruz Jr. line against lefties .313/.420/.522/.942

He was DFA'd on August 1st so on August 11 he is just completly released. Meaning we could even sign him for the league minimum or a minor league contract. He can play all OF positions well enough.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 9, 2006 11:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Jose Cruz Jr.
Perfect platoon in left with Duncan.

by lopey986 on Aug 9, 2006 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Amen...
and he can play center and platoon with Jed too.

by guayzimi on Aug 9, 2006 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cruz
Platoon split for 2003-2005:

against righties: .232/.340/.415
against lefties: .291/.392/.497

Me likey. He has even played a little center, if TLR is going to keep insisting on the sit Jimmy against tough lefties bit, but I too would prefer a platoon with Duncan.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 9, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has been
He has just been DFA'd so we would have to work out a deal with the Dodgers to some sort but after 10 days he is just realsed as a free agent.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 9, 2006 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

No
The article says he has already been released.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 9, 2006 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone think
the Reds would be willing to take Marquis for Freel?  ;-)

by cardsrul on Aug 9, 2006 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I really hope
the Cardinals don't decline Edmonds' option so that they can make room for the dumb signing of a starting pitcher.

by ryanisforever on Aug 9, 2006 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Marquis de Sadde
It is torture watching/listening to games in which this guy pitches. Get him out of here. Usually, I'm more thought out than this but last night was it. I cancelled plans to watch the game and everything. He is hurting morale and our record. DFA him. Pass him through waivers for Conine.

BE GONE, MARQUIS.

by bgh on Aug 9, 2006 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

larry bigbie
when i first saw him, i thought of larry walker.  he wears the same number, plays the same position, has a similar type of open batting stance, and even reacts at the plate similarly to walker (this sequence of images is indellibly burned into my head: larry fouling off a pitch, backing off from the plate, standing the bat on end, and re-strapping  his batting gloves while cursing under his breath).  and then there is this.  is this guy ever gonna be healthy?  

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

For all I'm concerned
I don't ever want to hear about that guy ever again either.  A guy who's more damaged-goods than Kerry Wood and probably wouldn't help much even if he did get back to the bigs.  Good riddance, BigB.

by EBroglio on Aug 9, 2006 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bigbie gives us
all the health of JD Drew and none of the talent.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 9, 2006 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha
A truly damning statement.

by EBroglio on Aug 9, 2006 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Tony Long for STL
After reading Dewiitt's comments about prospects having priority in yesterdays Post, I'm wondering who's going to be the skipper, because we know TLR does not like to play prospects.

by Birds on the Bat in AZ on Aug 9, 2006 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

my choices would be
oquendo, first, because he is a great teacher of the game, or this guy, for what he's done this year.

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes...
Right on! Giradi keeps popping into my mind as well.  We can get a former cathcher to manage and actually get a former pitcher to be pitching coach.

by BigJawnMize on Aug 9, 2006 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

See!
This is why Jocketty's refusal to negiotiate contracts in season can come back to hurt him.  Some guys don't play well when they are in the final year of a contract because they have the added pressure on them to perform well.  If they could just resign Edmonds now, it would be a huge weight off his shoulders and maybe... just maybe we could see the slugging Jim Edmonds we all love, just in time for the postseason stretch.

by stltrav09 on Aug 9, 2006 1:40 PM EDT reply actions  

They don't need to sign Edmonds
They just need to come out and say they want to.

by sdrone on Aug 9, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

People wonder why there is clubhouse 'frustration'
Four starting pitchers and our starting CF don't know if they'll be back next year.  While they aren't all superstars, they all aren't the Mike Mussina's of the world, only trying in contract years.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 9, 2006 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

The last straw
This actually comes a week late, but since we are bashing Marquis, I want to join the fun.

Because I live near Philadelphia, I was forced to watch the Cards-Phils games on the local Comcast channel (MLB Extra Innings was blacked out so I could not watch the FSN Midwest broadcast).  Therefore, I don't know if anyone else saw this.

In the first inning of last Thursday's game against the Phillies, Marquis gave up a single to Utley, then Taguchi bobbled the ball in the OF allowing Utley to go to second.  The Comcast camera then showed a close-up shot of Marquis glaring at Taguchi (I have to assume he was glaring at Taguchi, but he was definitely glaring toward CF).  My immediate thought was "What a punk!"  The way he has been pitching, he should NEVER glare at another player for making an error.  Even my wife, who is just learning the game, commented on how bad it was.  

After that, I definitely do not want Marquis on this team anymore (that and he stinks).  I am almost glad that he is pitching so poorly - maybe it will make the Cardinals' decision easier.

Anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

by stlfaninpa on Aug 9, 2006 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I didnt see it..
But I sure as hell believe it.  Marquis attitude and personality pisses me off just as much as his horrid pitching.  

When Molina/Duncan come out to the mound you can tell he's not even listening to them.  

by stltrav09 on Aug 9, 2006 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blackouts?
Can someone please explain to me what a blackout is and why they are frustrating to people?

by Big Rev on Aug 9, 2006 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

blackout
Seriously?  It's when one channel can't show a game because some other channel paid for exclusive rights to showing it.  Half the time though, things are blacked out that shouldn't really be blacked out.

So say Fox pays for the rights to broadcast a Saturday game.  In the midwest they're showing Cards-Cubs but on the east coast they're showing Yankees-Red Sox.  People on the east coast who pay for MLB Extra Innings, which is supposed to provide all games that are not available to watch on local broadcast or cable networks should be showing the game.

However, since you live on the east coast, the game isn't on fox, but is already blacked out of MLB Extra Innings so you don't get to see the game, even though you paid a bunch of money for it.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 9, 2006 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you!
Thank you. I haven't had cable for awhile, and have to GameCast my Cards' games. I also live in Cubbie/Sox land with no chance to get FSN MW.

by Big Rev on Aug 9, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's one thing I'll never understand
about blackouts.

If they have the technology to see that you're in a region that should be blacked out, why can't they also recognise which "nationally" broadcast game Fox is showing in your region and then let you have access to the others?  It can't be that complicated.

by calico30 on Aug 9, 2006 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is a
very entertaining and accurate explanation of the blackout situtaion.

by lawman3842 on Aug 9, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jonah...
He's our Jonah.. let's throw him off the ship....

by TNFan32 on Aug 9, 2006 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Jonah
A guy who

1)Obstinately refused to do what he was told & went the opposite direction.

2) Was given a second chance, grudgingly obeyed, but never learned his lesson.

That does sound awfully familiar, doesn't it?

by calico30 on Aug 9, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait.....
Jonah's middle name was Marquis!!!!

by TNFan32 on Aug 9, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those crazy Reds are at it again...
Acquired Todd Hollandsworth today. What's better? Not making moves (Cardinals)? Or making moves for mediocre players (Reds)?
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 9, 2006 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

We are making moves for mediocre players
See: Weaver, Belliard, and all of our offseason signings last year

by dontEATnachos on Aug 9, 2006 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Belliards not mediocre, IMO
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 9, 2006 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edmonds value
Despite its flaws, the Winshare statistic and related still gives a fair idea of the value of a player to his team.

Current Cards values are here: http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&linesToDisplay=50&season _filter[0]=2006&league_filter[0]=NL&team_filter[0]=STL&pos_filter[0]=All&Submit=Submit& orderBy=wsp&direction=DESC&page=1

Albert the great accounts for 27 shares, Rolen 18, Carp 13...who's next?  Edmonds with 11 tied with Encarnacion with 11.

However, if we look at Winshares prorated to playing time (the WSP), while Pujols, Rolen, and Carp are still at the top (joined, interestingly, by Wainwright and !Sosa), Edmonds falls to the middle of the pack.  His expected Winshares over bench is 4, one above Enc @ 3.  So, as others have suggested, even a sub-MVP Jim Edmonds is better than your average center fielder, and probably worth the resigning...

Interesting thing on the winshares...the bottom of the list.  Of the regulars, Weaver is (not surprisingly) at the bottom, good for -1 win shares.  Next up -- Belliard, also in negative numbers (compared with Luna who had earned 7 before the trade).  Flores, Marquis, and Johnson form a triumvirate at about 0, all with 0 value over bench replacement.  Next up -- Molina, whose 6 winshares all come from his defense.

Which brings me to a last question -- Yadi seems to be protected from a lot of the finger pointing from this frustrating season.  All concede his batting is a detriment to the team, but in the TLR system a great defensive catcher somehow makes up for this.  Seems to me a major sign of the effectiveness of a catcher is the ability to handle the staff -- and this year has been one of the worst pitching years in recent memories.  Would a veteran everyday catcher give the boost the middle-of-the-rotation guys need?

by brdsnbt on Aug 9, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Regarding Yadi...
He was our everyday catcher last year, and our pitching staff was leagues better than it is this year. Therefore it's hard to point the finger at him.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 9, 2006 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yadi
I must admit that I don't know what all goes into handling pitchers, but part of it would be calling the pitches and giving a good target for the pitcher.  I don't think Yadi's performance in those 2 areas is bad at all.  In fact, there are a lot of instances where he is giving a low target (and really emphasizing the low target) and the pitch comes in belt high.  Other times, he will set up outside, and the pitch comes in over the plate.

A veteran catcher might have some more weight with the veteran pitchers, but I don't think Yadi's handling of the staff can be blamed.  I think the blame should fall squarely on the pitcher's location.

by stlfaninpa on Aug 9, 2006 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been meaning to ask
Does Yadi call the pitches or does TLR?   Or is it a combo?

by sdrone on Aug 9, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Earlier in the year
I think I read that LaRussa liked the way Yadi called a game.  I took that to mean that Yadi gets to call most, if not all, the pitches.  However, I have noticed that Yadi looks into the dugout a lot between pitches, although that is usually with a runner on base - probably for a "throw to first" sign or pitch out sign.

by stlfaninpa on Aug 9, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which could lead to why TLR made the comments he
did.  Yadi may call for the splitter and Marquis throws the 4 seamer.  Yadi has had to make a lot of trips to the mound this year with some of our struggling pitchers, one has to wonder if they simply refuse to agree to his first sign given.

I noticed the other night, Yadi ran over and put his arm around Sosa between innings at one point.  They clearly are on the same page and you'd have to believe it shows in Sosa's sucess.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 9, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

YES!
I love Yadi to death and think that he is going to be one of the greatest catchers we have ever seen......but MATHENY was the man. Period. We should have spent some money, WOW what a concept, and kept Matheny for a few more years to teach Yadi a little more and then become an awesome backup. Look at Matheny now, he is too old to be an everyday catcher and got put on the DL. Come on, the man didn't have a passed ball for 2 and 1/2 years!
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 9, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

there's one thing yadi needs to learn
and I don't think Matheny can teach him how to not suck at hitting.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 9, 2006 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not too old
He got nailed in the head with three foul tips in one game.

by liam on Aug 9, 2006 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blackouts?
Can someone please explain to me what a blackout is and why they are frustrating to people?

by Big Rev on Aug 9, 2006 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Blackouts
I can only speak for the MLB Extra Innings package.  All games involving your home market team are blacked out, meaning that game is not shown.  The game is blacked out even if the home market team is playing an away game.  Therefore, since I am in the Philadelphia home market, I cannot watch any game involving the Phillies on MLB Extra Innings.  I have to watch those games on local channels.  Same would go for someone in St. Louis - all Cardinals games would be blacked out in St. Louis.

I get frustrated by the blackouts because, at least with the case of the Phillies-Cardinals games, I want to watch the FSN Midwest broadcast instead of the local idiots doing the Phillies broadcast.

Also, I have noticed that some ESPN games involving the Phillies have been blacked out locally.  Last Wednesday was one example.

by stlfaninpa on Aug 9, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

also
I dunno if this is still the case (it is with the NFL) but if games don't sell out, they get blacked out locally. Its an 'incentive' (in the sense that getting your mouth washed out with soap for cursing as a kid was an incentive to not cuss) to go to the game.

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 9, 2006 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLB doesn't do that
Otherwise I wouldn't have seen a single Nats game all year ...

by dontEATnachos on Aug 9, 2006 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I live in Virginia
and am in the "home area" of the O's and Nats. The O's have a local affiliate here, but the Nats don't.  BTW, the Nats are getting the high hard one from Peter Angelos when it comes to broadcasting.
Anyway, when the Cards play the Nats, I can't watch the games, because they're blacked out on EI.

by cardsrul on Aug 9, 2006 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah
doesn't angelos' own the nats' broadcasting rights or something like that as part of the settlement that allowed them the bedouin expos franchise to settle?

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...
If I live in Chicago and order Extra Innings I shouldn't have a problem having Cards'games blacked out?

by Big Rev on Aug 9, 2006 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not unless
they play the Cubs or White Sox.  You will be limited to watching all Cards-Cubs games on the local Chicago network(s).

The other thing I am not wild about with Extra Innings is that you usually get the home team's broadcast.  Although I like watching as many Cards's games as I can, I don't always like the opponent's broadcasters.  They, of course, focus their attention on their team, and you don't get the inside stuff on the Cardinals that you would get from Al, Dan or Joe on FSN Midwest.

I wish Extra Innings would set it up like the MLB radio broadcasts on the internet where you can pick which broadcast you want to listen to.

by stlfaninpa on Aug 9, 2006 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

TV
I live in Memphis and have Direct Tv. If a Cardinals game is on ESPN, it is blacked out because they are shown on FSN MW, which in my case, you have to order to see it some of the time. Its just a huge headache
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 9, 2006 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Let me be the first to go on record
I know the Reds are a crappy team, but the way they responded to Freel's catch was inspiring.  Not to mention their management is taking steps (although questionable ones) to show this team they want to do what it takes to win this year.  
I look for them to go on a big run.  I just hope the Cards hang on and get white hot before the playoffs.  Maybe what it takes is for the Reds to pass them in the standings to wake them up.  But I do think the Reds are playoff contenders this year.
"The good Lord was good to me. He gave me a strong body, a good right arm, and a weak mind." -Dizzy Dean

by vince eating tarp on Aug 9, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

We shouldn't be having this conversation
right now, and neither should Edmonds and the Cardinals.  If Jed wants to stay in St. Louis, he should focus on his game.  I believe he's capable of picking his play up a notch, and that should be his primary concern.  

Management should tell Jimbo to stop worrying about next year.  Concentrate on playing well this year, and next year will take care of itself.  

If Edmonds' hits 25 homeruns this year, I wouldn't hestitate to pick up the last year of his contract.  But he's got to get there first.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Aug 9, 2006 4:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Brad Thompson called up....
JRod sent down.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 9, 2006 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

13 pitchers?
really?  i gotta think there is more to this, unless brad thompson has been swinging a hot bat in memphis...

by gthedamned on Aug 9, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bernie...
is reporting it on his forums.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 9, 2006 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could this be
a prelude to sending Sophie or Betty to Memphis, with Big B being healthy enough to return to the big club?

by Solanus on Aug 9, 2006 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

where
does thompson fit into the analogy??

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's
your best friend's kid sister.
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Aug 9, 2006 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like DCGreg's idea
it seems to fit perfectly.

Eventually I will have prom-date-nicknames for everybody in the bullpen and maybe the lineup. Although I'm a little worried about Hancock. The problem is that he looks remarkably like my 8-year-old nephew if you aged him by twenty years.

by Solanus on Aug 9, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

JRod never got the chance he deserved
I still think he is of the late-bloomer type.

We'll let Yadi of the .220 AVG bat everyday but JRod can't even find a platoon with his ~.300 avg.  Why they wouldn't give him LF after last season and see what he could do, I will never understand...

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

JRod
Being screwed slightly less than John Gall was before.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 9, 2006 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

yadis
gotta hell of an arm...i think TLR doesnt give a crap what he bats.

by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 9, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that his arm is good
but at best that makes him replacement level when factoring in his defense...

at worst he's still liablity for a contending team.

I tend to think of him more as a liability.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does JRod play outfield
the way Yadi plays behind the plate?

I was interested in JRod too, but he hasn't blown anyone away.

by sdrone on Aug 9, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

his defense
yeah, his defense was unacceptable and he wasn't hitting for power.  I can understand why he got benched.  After the bullpen's consecutive 3 run innings last night, I can understand why they'd be calling Thompson back up though.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 9, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does Yadi hit at the plate the way
JRod does?  JRod was hardly an overwhelming defensive liability in LF and I think you'd be hard pressed to prove to me Duncan is anything more than marginally better.

My point is this.  Yadi sucks something fierce offensively behind the plate and is given 3-4 ABs a game for at least 2/3 of our games.  JRod who may have been going through a power funk was hitting .300 w/ .379 OBP.  Why was he not put in the 2-hole???  That OBP would be perfect there.  He's been good in clutch situations (althuogh I don't take much value from that).

I think JRod got the shaft.  It's not about how many balls leave the park.  JRod also had a .449 SLG and I recall him hitting some long balls that got caught (i.e. Houston CF Hill) In 307 career ABs JRod now has a .300/.380/.443 line.  That's enough of a sample size to take some meaning from and I think it's within reason to expect a .800 OPS from JRod (or at least give him a chance to play full time and prove that wrong) - something you aren't getting from Luna, Encarnacion or Gooch.  Yet they (most notably TLR's pet Gooch) got more at bats despite having discernably worse numbers.

Short answer - JRod deserved a fulltime look and never got it despite producing better than other regulars and semi-regulars.

by azruavatar on Aug 9, 2006 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked J-Rod
I think J-Rod really could do all what was of expected of him. TLR just simply did not like him. Shame though. Cruz Jr anyone?

Cardinals 2006 - DFA'd All-Star team

"Your Trash is our Treasure"

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 9, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's unfortunate too
Because I think the guy just might've been our best outfielder of the bunch. Maybe not, but that's why you platoon guys. I couldn't stand it earlier in the year when it seemed So got 80% of the starts in LF. I like JR, even more than Speeze or Dunc or So. I know he hasn't hit the homeruns this year, but he has shown he can now hit a breaking ball. Just have to wonder why J-Rod and Luna never got extended looks, while C-Dunc and Miles have.

by fuegophil on Aug 9, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can't send down Marquis without him passing...
...through, correct?  I would imagine that they sent JRod down because they can, and brought Thompson up because Marquis is utterly useless at this point.  Carry an extra pitcher until Mulder gets back.  Send down Thomspon, move Marquis to the pen and then call JRod back up with September call-ups.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 9, 2006 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

so i just saw
it seems blooper has a sore back, and sosa and wainwright won't be available tonight.

by gthedamned on Aug 9, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Correction
Not Wainwright but Hancock will not be available

"Ran into him as he was getting out of a cab at Great American Ballpark -- you're the first to know, sort of.

I don't know what the corresponding move is.

But Looper's back was hurting (spasms). They don't want to push him. They are short. Hancock can't pitch tonight. Sosa can't, either.

They sent John Rodriguez to Memphis.

Reds acquired OF Todd Hollandsworth.

--B"

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 9, 2006 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

something else must be in the works
they don't usually bring in extra bullpen help on a day by day basis, especially when their ace is taking the mound.  i wonder if carp's thumb isn't up to par, or maybe looper is going on the dl or something

by sjoshi on Aug 9, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

J-Rod
Was gimpy too.  Probably get him back from Memphis sooner than if we DL him.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 9, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

good point
I had forgotten about that...  I'm still more than a little mad though.

by SleepyCA on Aug 9, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grrr
OT: But Did you see that the Rams game is going to get blacked out?

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 9, 2006 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

soo stupid...
that is one reason football sucks compared to baseball.  Can you imagine the outrage if Cardinals games were blacked-out b/c they didn't sell out?  (Wouldn't be a problem this year, but in past years)  There is no way that would happen and if they did they would get ripped for alienating their fan base.  However in football it is totally acceptable to blackout a game that doesn't sell out.  I guess its good that everyone holds baseball to a higher standard (example: steroids, just as rampant in other sports esp. football, but people only complain out them in baseball mostly).
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 9, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

if they
miss out on jimmy what about tori hunter? but if they replace jimmy with another platoon guy then i say pay him the 10...

by punchinjudy on Aug 9, 2006 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Hunter may cost 10 mil...
... and i'm not sure he's any better than JED.

plus, Edmonds isn't really costing 10 million, as so many have pointed out. he's really only costing 7, because we've gotta pay the 3 million buyout regardless.

i doubt there will be a better FA CF option for 7 million.

by kindred on Aug 9, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers just to blame?
Could the fact that our pitchers are so inconsistent have something to do with the game-calling? What if Yadi calls a horrible game and Betty or Red Snappa, or No-Soup-for-You gets shelled? Has anyone at VEB thought or discussed this?

by Big Rev on Aug 9, 2006 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Yadi
was calling games last year too when our pitchers were doing a lot better than they are capable of.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 9, 2006 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

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