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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Game 112 Open Thread: August 8, 2006


marquis             milton
12-9, 5.68          7-7, 5.20

jeff gordon has love for chris duncan in today's paper; calls him "the key to the outfield equation." the kid's hanging in there pretty well; i'd noticed he started out august 2 for 15 with 6 strikeouts and was thinking "mmm hmmmm," league's caught up to him . . . so last night he goes 3 for 5 with a walk and a dinger. similar thing at the outset of last month, when he poked just 4 singles in his first 17 at-bats; the kid hit ~.350 the rest of the month with power. his 8 hr make him the cardinals' 4th most prolific rookie home-run hitter of the la russa era:

  1. 37, pujols, 2001
  2. 13, drew, 1999
  3. 9, mcewing, 1999
  4. 8, duncan, 2006
  5. 5, rodriguez, 2005
  6. 5, d young, 1997
duncan's a sure bet to move up to 3d on that list, and 2d place is well within reach.

for that matter, duncan is getting more playing time than most rookies under la russa. he currently stands 14th on the list of rookie at-bats in the TLR era. if he matches his july at-bat total (68) in the last two months of the year, he'll finish with ~250 at-bats, placing just outside the top 5:

  1. 590, albert pujols, 2001
  2. 513, joe mcewing, 1999
  3. 368, jd drew, 1999
  4. 333, dmitri young, 1997
  5. 296, bo hart, 2003
  6. 260, mike difelice, 1997   
  7. 254, eli marrero, 1998
  8. 186, kerry robinson, 2001
  9. 173, hector luna, 2004
  10. 170, mark sweeney, 1996
  11. 149, john rodriguez, 2005
  12. 145, placido polanco, 1998
  13. 135, yadier molina, 2004
  14. 128, chris duncan, 2006
  15. 102, adam kennedy, 1999
that's a pretty thin list of ballplayers -- and a pretty light usage of rookies overall. i would have thought, without counting them up, that more than two cardinal rookies had accumulated 500 at-bats in the TLR era. i wonder how the cardinals' rookie usage compares to that of other playoff-perennial teams of the era -- the giants, braves, yankees, boxos, astros. don't have time to look that up just now; maybe tomorrow a.m.

i want to make clear, i'm not criticizing la russa; there aren't many guys on that list who merited more than 500 ab in their rookie years. maybe jd drew, maybe dmitri; those are the only two you could make a compelling argument for. but dmitri lost his playing time to mark mcgwire, and the main reason drew fell so short of 500 ab is because he spent 45 games on the dl in his rookie year. no, this isn't a TLR issue; it's an organizational issue.

one more duncan item: there's an interesting discussion of his cousin, eric, at Minor League Ball; same great power potential, same youthful struggles with strike-zone judgment, same defensive limitations. but he's put up better numbers than his cousin; maybe the yanks' 1st baseman / dh someday.

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I thought the left justification
was some sort of vodoo thing for Marquis not to suck.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

as per wikipedia
Eric's his cousin, though I'd never even heard of that; I thought they weren't related. His brother Shelley's with the Yankees in AAA, and he looks even more like Dave than Chris; he's got absolutely no chin. If he had the Power Mullet like Dave used to have it'd be pretty eerie.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

my boo boo
thanks danup; they're both yankees, both duncans . . . .

by lboros on Aug 8, 2006 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

makes me go back
Seeing that list makes me think of how much I like Joe McEwing. Man I miss him.
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 8, 2006 5:35 PM EDT reply actions  

where in the world is joe mc ewing?
i think he'd be a MUCH better fit than miles.  he's faster, could play a decent back-up SS and much more versatile than miles.

by stlspecialsauce on Aug 8, 2006 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think...
... he was released by the Mets earlier this year. he may be in someone's AAA team, but i don't think he's in the bigs.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's with the astros
playing for thier AAA team i believe.
The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on Aug 8, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha
Bring back Lil' Mac Land.

by liam on Aug 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

here's hoping...
... McRae learned something from that last drubbing Milton gave the Cardinal bats.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

yankees
I love that rookie playing time list. I eyeballed one for the Yankees; I might have missed a few, and I guessed at rookie eligibility, but this is what I came up with:

  1. 582, Derek Jeter, 1996
  2. 574, Alfonso Soriano, 2001
  3. 522, Robby Cano, 2005
  4. 378, Nick Johnson, 2002
  5. 283, Melky Cabrera, 2006
  6. 250, Ricky Ledee, 1999
  7. 224, Andy Phillips, 2006
  8. 205, Shane Spencer, 1999
  9. 189, Andy Fox, 1996
  10. 180, Jorge Posada, 1997
  11. 173, Juan Rivera, 2003
  12. 100, Erick Almonte, 2003
  13. 98, Bubba Crosby, 2005
  14. 71, Homer Bush, 1998

Thins out even faster, but more regulars at the top end.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

apples and oranges, tho...
... because for much of that time the Yanks have had a payroll that is twice that of the Cards. they buy All-Stars at every position, so reliance upon youngsters isn't necessary except in case of injury (see: Cano, Cabrera, Crosby, etc.). the Yanks farm system has actually been decent, but they just trade a lot of guys for proven vets (Ledee, Rivera, etc.).

the Cardinals have been using re-treads and cast-offs instead of younger talent. the main reason for that is that the Cards don't have much young talent, and we have had has gone to trades for Finley, Renteria, and others.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cano
He didn't replace anyone who was injured.  Unless you count Tony Womack's sucking as an injury.  
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Womack wasn't injured...
... but Bernie and Sheffield were both hurt, IIRC, so Womack got moved to the OF.

when those guys came back, Cano was playing better than Womack, so he kept the job.

Soriano got his shot because Knoblauch forgot how to throw to first.

Jeter and Posada both came up in mid-90s before Steinbrenner really started spending a ton of money.

also, one has to consider that the Yanks field one more hitter than any NL team because of the DH, so there's one extra spot. Nick Johnson probably wouldn't have played were there no DH... the Yanks already had Giambi in '02.

but all those things aside, does anyone really believe that the Cards have had the available talent in the minors that the Yanks have had in the past 10 years? Jeter, Posada, Johnson, Soriano, Cano, (Juan) Rivera.

excepting Pujols and Drew, the Cards really haven't had any guys that compare. so perhaps the fault shouldn't lie with TLR; perhaps it should lie with the Cards scouting/drafting squad.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also
in addition to Cano the buying all-stars thing doesn't explain Jeter, Soriano, or Nick Johnson.  The Yankees frequently give 1 or 2 rookies a shot each year.  Of course they are surrounded by mostly all-stars, so they do not have as much pressure and if they struggle it doesn't hurt the team as much.  But they give young players a chance more than the Cardinals do.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

soriano doesn't really count
He started his career in Japan and was purchased by the yankees as a free agent.

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2006 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

he still played...
in the minors for the yankees and they gave him a chance to play everyday as a rookie.  doesn't matter where he came from.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duncan is riding the pine tonight though...
As is every left on the team.

eckstein 6
belliard 4
pujols 3
rolen 5
spiezio 7
encarnacion 9
taguchi 8
molina 2
marquis 1

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 8, 2006 5:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I think...
even with a lefty pitcher I'd still rather see JEd than the GOOCH.  Dispite wishing Duncan would get some ABs against a lefty, I do like Speezer in there though.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speeze in the 5-hole?
he must have good #'s against Milton or something.

ah, at least Gooch isn't batting 2nd.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speezer...
... HAS been good against Milton.

.357 / .438 / .643 - 10 for 28 w/ 2HR.

Gooch

2 for 9 with a dinger and K'd twice.

JEd

2 for 12 with a double and K'd 4X.

I'm OK with giving Jimmie a little extra rest under the circumstances.

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't have time
to look this up right now, but I thought his brother in the Yankee system was Shelley (sp?) Duncan, not Eric.

by Solanus on Aug 8, 2006 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

yep, my bad
corrected above; thanks for pointing out.

by lboros on Aug 8, 2006 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey isnt....
.. Shelley his brother and Eric his cousin??
HA HA thought I would be annoying as well and post something that has already been said 2 or 3 times.

by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Chinatown
It's his brother.

His cousin.

His brother.

His cousin.

It's his brother AND his cousin... (sob)

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you forgot the slaps
it's his brother

[slap]

his cousin

[slap]

his brother [slap] cousin [slap] brothercousinbrothercousin sobbbbbb

it's his brother ANND his cousin . . . .

[stunned silence]

clear enough for you?

 . . . . . if it's not obvious, chinatown is one of me favorite films . . .. .

by lboros on Aug 8, 2006 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry
I've never been good at sound effects.  :-)

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh-oh
lead off hit.  I hope this isn't the Bad Marquis.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Horton
"Marquis has been better then we have given him credit for"...not Rick, he's been worse.

by erik on Aug 8, 2006 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

oh boy...........
Two batters, two hits. This doesn't look like good Marquis. I am worried.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Marquis
He just ins't a good pitcher.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Bad Jason...
Bad....Bad Jason...don't let them gets hits it or give up runs.  Bad.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Silly Dan Mc....
... Bill Hall has more homers than Jenkins this season.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

what was
gooch swinging at?. Gameday has it on the ground.

by erik on Aug 8, 2006 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

attaboy Yadi!!
and thanks for the gift, Ross.

by kindred on Aug 8, 2006 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Lucky...
Enc should have been out by a mile.  THAT was lucky.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:39 PM EDT reply actions  

He took a ridculously wide turn...
...it amazes me that MLB players never seem to get the footwork right on rounding bases.  High school players seemingly take better angles.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquis
Is the worst pitcher on the face of the earth.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 8, 2006 7:42 PM EDT reply actions  

CRAP
bad Jason. BAD.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Get the pen up...
...Marquis gets DFA'd, Weaver moved to the #4 spot, Reyes holds on to the #5.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 7:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Marquis...
got lucky on that one.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Luck
Is all that is gonna keep Jason from getting shelled. I can't stand this.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 7:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it me
or does Jason show absolutely no heart out there. And that was  strike to Albert on the last pitch

by Poooo Daddy on Aug 8, 2006 7:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Frick
I thought Scotty had that one.....

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

ugh
come on Eck.  Marquis doesn't need help giving up runs.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 7:55 PM EDT reply actions  

He's worthless...
He's below average defensively, and he can't even reach base anymore....If he doesn't break out of the slump, I see no reason in not trying to deal him in the winter.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 8, 2006 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummm
I wouldn't go that far.  Although it would make a nice pun to say Eck puts the "crappy" in scrappy
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a little extreme
I think the fact that he's been off ever since the concussion says something.  Maybe it's just been some personal stuff or maybe it's a nagging physical issue.

To call him worthless seems a little harsh though.

If you were referring to Jason Marquis on the other hand ...

by dontEATnachos on Aug 8, 2006 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody else...
...getting a really choppy FSN Ohio feed on mlb.tv?

by Big Red on Aug 8, 2006 8:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah
like watching reel to reel in color

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

off and on....
...it's choppy. But still better than mosaic.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 8, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

True!!
Anyway, good it's not just me.  Figured since the other games were fine, it wasn't my computer...but, just wanted to make sure.

by Big Red on Aug 8, 2006 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we finally put to rest
that "good Jason after a win" superstition?

Get him out of there.  Get him out of town.

by Intheway on Aug 8, 2006 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

DFA Marquis
After this game, any hope?

I really hope Tony pulls him before this game is out of reach, instead of letting him stay in there and ruining the game. (Although we are already out of it with the way we hit against lefties)

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 8, 2006 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I really hope they get rid of him very soon
I cant stand his cockiness and careless attitude on the mound.

by Poooo Daddy on Aug 8, 2006 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He really does look
like he couldn't care less. At least Weaver looks like his dog died when he pitches.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm so sick of watching Jason Marquis
When Mulder comes off the DL, he better replace Marquis. I'm not holding my breath, though. Here's hoping young Reyes makes a strong case for himself on Thursday.

by steve in georgia on Aug 8, 2006 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

not watching the game, so...
these 9 hits that jason has given up so far, are they line-drive bullets or are they little bloop shots?

by stlspecialsauce on Aug 8, 2006 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Mostly well hit balls....
......and he just walked the bases loaded.

Wainwright, time for you to go 4 innings tonight.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

thank god
I hope he never pitches again for the cards

by Poooo Daddy on Aug 8, 2006 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Hopefully
this doesn't end any sort of momentum we might have been building. Just when I start to feel positive about this team, Jason Marquis takes the mound. I can't believe I used to support this guy. Now he's loaded the bases.

by Brownale on Aug 8, 2006 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Sosa?!?
No offense, Tony...but I know Sosa has done well since we got him.  However, you don't want a guy who is near the lead league in homeruns coming into a game with the bases loaded.

Play with fire too often and you're libel to get burned.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Huh
maybe Tony knows best   ;)

by Big Red on Aug 8, 2006 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's hard to watch this when.....
...Weaver's little brother is pitching so well, again, against Cleveland.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 8, 2006 8:13 PM EDT reply actions  

No Joke
La Russa sure has a lot of faith in Sosa for a guy that just joined the team after being DFA's.

In 2 days Cruz Jr will be completly released from the Dodgers and can be signed for league minimum or minor league contract.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 8, 2006 8:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Royce Clayton
I guess Royce Clayton was only batting .167 carreer agaisnt Sosa.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 8, 2006 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Next Innining
If Sosa stays in

Milton: .000
Freel .333 in 6abs w/ 1 SO
Hatteberg .556 in 9abs

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 8, 2006 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least
they're the ones with royce

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 8:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe Sosa
has been reborn since his arrival. He sure hasn't looked like his numbers so far.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 8:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow
Color me impressed with Sosa: did Duncan fix something simple, or have we just been lucky?

by SirVLCIV on Aug 8, 2006 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

wow
home field advantage on that bunt.  damn.  

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 8:18 PM EDT reply actions  

The Reds may win a few games in this series....
....but they clearly don't look like a division champion.  They should just put 'Merry Go-Round Broke Down' on constant repeat whenever they are in the field or on the basepaths.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

In fairness...
The Cards don't either.  Only the Mets look like a division champion in the NL.

by whopperman on Aug 8, 2006 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

great ab for yadi
he's been looking pretty good the last few days

by sjoshi on Aug 8, 2006 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

If Sosa hits a HR...
....he should do the hop down the basepath.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

if that would have happened
Albert would be spitting up teeth for a week. Or Narron is a big wus.
What ever happened to John Romonosky?

by Columbus Jets on Aug 8, 2006 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So...
Maybe we should put Sosa in the rotation and Marquis in the bullpen.  That would solve hitters sitting on his sinker.  Its worth a shot.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

No...cause it removes Sosa from the game....
...waste his arm early isn't a good idea.  Need him to eat some innings here.

Runs will come.  The Reds have no bullpen to speak of.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least...
the Reds bullpen sucks.  As long as we keep it close we should have a shot.  Once they go to a righty we have a lot of LH pop on the bench.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Umm on second thought
Maybe we should have pinch hit.

I was just thinking something positive about Sosa, but man do I hate for the pitcher to get a hit.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Aug 8, 2006 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

On third thought..
Good decision keeping him in.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Belliard's FSN photo...
...is hilarious.  He's got this 'Yeah, I did it...so what, wanna fight about it?'-look on his face.  The hat doesn't even match up with his head.  Terrible photoshop job there.  Might as well give him the Weaver facial tatoo as well.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Eck!
Nice to see him get a hit.  I finally pulled the plug on him today in fantasy baseball.  Dropped him and picked up Freddy Sanchez.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 8:35 PM EDT reply actions  

sanchez
is on the downslope.  he has eligibility at a bunch of places, but he's been slumping the last month

by sjoshi on Aug 8, 2006 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nomar is on my team.
and I needed a guy like Sanchez who can fill in at a lot of positions.  I also picked up Valentin from the Tigers.  

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just outta curiosity
what do you guys think I should do with Helton, all of the leagues I have him in are fairly deep.
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 8, 2006 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG
THAT WAS FRICKIN' AWESOME, even we must admit it.
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 8, 2006 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

wow
that was incredible.  what a catch.  

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Edmondsesque
That's the big advantage of that trade with the Nationals - gives Freel a true spot and role.

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I'm the Reds
I'd rather trade Freel and give Kearns a true spot and role. It was a great play, but Kearns is one of the best defensive right fielders in baseball anyway--and he can keep his slugging percentage over .400.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh... WOW.
Nominee for play of the year.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

NOMINEE???
IMO, that won it, the game and the award, never seen a better catch, ever.
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 8, 2006 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you miss
Gary Mathew's catch for the Rangers?  That could arguably be the best play of all time.  

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I saw it
It was cool too, but I think this one was better anyway.
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 8, 2006 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gary Matthews Jr.
This year. Not sure of the situation (runners on, etc.), but that catch stuns me every time I see it.

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You ever seen
Jimmy's catch at Kauffman when he played for Anaheim?

Now THAT was awesome...

"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was one
of the best catches I've ever seen

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 8:38 PM EDT reply actions  

tagging from second
I'm not watching the game, could Eckstein have tagged up?

by TopekaCardinal on Aug 8, 2006 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

There would have been no reason too...
...that should have been a double easy.  Great play caught everyone off guard.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea
easily.  it was a diving catch at the warning track.  but eckstein was at third when he caught it

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2006 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

probably
He might just have been assuming there was no way on god's green earth Freel would catch that ball.
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Aug 8, 2006 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Way to shut that home crowd up...
...got one of the two back.  Let's get the other one here Juan!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

so
are they playing like the bad club or just losing? there is a difference I think you know what I mean...like is the team playing ok, but Jason is sucking?

by punchinjudy on Aug 8, 2006 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I haven't watched
every play, but that's an excellent question to ask. I'll take a hard-fought loss against the bs that they brought to the field during, say, the Cubs series.

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

couple of years ago
on the BBTN web gem midseason special, they had a segment where they had all of freel's great plays.  he's a good little fielder wherever he plays.

by sjoshi on Aug 8, 2006 8:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I was kinda worried
when I saw on ESPN GC that he swung at the first pitch, but hey, good result...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone miss
Woody Williams? I'm not saying they shouldn't have moved past him, but remember how competitive he was and what a veteran leader he seemed? Always came up big in games like this. Compare that to Marquis...

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I miss
Jose Jimenez or Manny Aybar, hell even Rick Ankiel when it comes to Jason Marquis...I'm done thinking he's gonna turn it around and be a good pitcher again...when you come up this poorly in this big a game, it's time to go...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just
love competitiveness in a pitcher. I love seeing it. With the exception of Carpenter, I just don't see it in the Cards pitchers this year.

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scratch that
Wainwright.

by dayimetmusial on Aug 8, 2006 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

coincidentally
they're also the best pitchers on the team. I don't think Marquis lacks any competitive drive and spirit, he just isn't all that good.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think
not only is he not very good, he just doesn't have any heart. He thinks he's better than he is and doesn't seem to make adjustments between poundings.

by Brownale on Aug 8, 2006 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What adjustments would he make?
Say the guy sucks if he does, but I see nothing that suggests that he doesn't want desperately to contribute--"heart" is one of the baseball descriptors I hate the most, because we have nothing that could really measure it, or no good definition for it. He's "made adjustments" several times since joining the Cardinals, but nothing works long term.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

woody
he's a free agent this year.  Wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a one year deal as a back of the rotation starter somewhere in the 3-5 mix with Reyes and Wainwright.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's establish a charity ...
... to buy Juan a ruler and some phase-shifting goggles.

Or ballet shoes.

It's bad luck to be superstitious.

by red menace on Aug 8, 2006 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit
This FSN Ohio feed is pissing me off. It's like watching the game under a strobe light...
"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 8:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Just put the game on mute
and turn on some blazin' techno music.  Then the feed will seem normal.
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is the very first time
I have EVER seen that goofy fake-to-third pickoff work.

We're going to win this one.

by Intheway on Aug 8, 2006 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I was wondering why GC said
"pitcher to second to first"...

Way to get out of a jam, Sosa!!!

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

three things
  1.  I saw y'all saying things about this MLB.TV feed.  So it's not just me?  It's all jerky, right?  Strobe light, perfect description.
  2.  I vote Edmondsesque.  Sort of as ridiculous as Kafka, no?
  3.  Shoot, I forget the third one.  My friend Sam Adams was talking to me.
;)
Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2006 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

when bigbie comes back...
who gets sent down?  i think only duncan can be sent down without losing him (and that includes bigbie), if i'm not mistaken.  i would hate to see duncan go, but bigbie can sitll hit, and is an average-above average defender, unlike duncan who is average-below (albeit with limited chances).

by sjoshi on Aug 8, 2006 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd rather dump Bigbie, honestly
he's basically the same player as J-Rod. While I think Duncan's due for some big-time regression, he at least gives them a different skill-set to work with.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bigbie
I don't think he'll be back before rosters expand.  I think he injured himself or something during his rehab.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did
but now he's back rehabbing in AA. He was replaced for a pinch hitter (Haerther) after one at-bat for some reason today, though, so who knows.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bigbie's Rehab
His rehab was put on hold since he reinjured himself. His 20-day rehab clock restarted on August 2nd, so he'll have to be brought up or released before rosters expand. Unless an outfielder is injured, I'd expect Rodriguez to go down to AAA for the week or so between when Bigbie comes up and September 1. He's been hitting all right on this rehab stint.

It may be moot, though. Bigbie was lifted in the third inning tonight for Cody Haerther. He was the lead runner in a double play (after singling) in the first. The way his luck has gone, it wouldn't be shocking if he injured himself on the play. It would be disappointing, though.

by liam on Aug 8, 2006 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't think
Bigbie will be back on the team.. before the roster expansion that is.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Already have it on mute
But I don't have any techno music...

:-)

"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, third one
I wanted to know if you found George Grande to be as obnoxious as us Reds fans do?  Maybe not because you don't have to put up with him for 100+ games, but the guy is an idiot.  What do you think?
Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2006 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Which one is he?
Is he the one that sounds like Reed and Malloy's boss (Sgt MacDonald) from Adam 12?
"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's the one who sounds like
he knows nothing about baseball.  the main guy who says that fly balls are "bloops."
Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2006 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could this be
Sosa's audition for Marquis' spot in the rotation? Cause I actually like what I see.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed
we should see what marquis has out of the pen.  Move Sosa into the rotation.  (I'd rather see Wainwright there, but we know that won't happen)
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

reds fan asking
you mean for next year?  is he a free agent?  

i know is ERA in in the clouds, but he's what, 12-5? ok, maybe i have the loses wrong, but why would you want to replace him.

just asking.

Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2006 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's "losses"
Come worship at the Church of Baseball with Sister Daedalus!

by Daedalus on Aug 8, 2006 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

We want to replace him because
he gives up more runs than the number of innings he pitches more often than not (see: tonight).  He's done nothing but gotten worse over the course of this year, and as you can read above, everyone sees he has no heart and is full of himself.
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

As far as pitchers with ERAs over 6 go
he's a good one, because he pitches well on occasion and gets his head kicked in the other times, instead of pitching badly every outing. But Cardinals fans have been frustrated by the guy's inconsistency for two and a half years now.

I'd definitely be eager to see what the guy could do in the bullpen, though, because he's got one pitch and it's a hard fastball.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquis to the 'pen
On one hand it would be a shame to send him to the bullpen in his season before being FA eligible, on the other, we're not helping out his numbers or reputation leaving him in the rotation when he's struggling there. If it happens, it'd be when Mulder comes back, I'd think--and if Marquis struggles in his one or two starts between now and then.

He could be one of those so-called "rubber-armed" relievers who can pitch effectively when he comes into every other game--and I'm inclined to think La Russa would give him every opportunity to establish himself as a solid cross-platoon relief pitcher if he'd agree to go to the bullpen.

On the other hand, the Marquis first-inning ineffectiveness (real or not) coupled with his poor numbers (this year) with runners on make him look like a less-than-promising reliever.

by liam on Aug 8, 2006 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because my
therapist won't refill my valium every time he pitches, and Marquis insist on being more bipolar than a ..............I can't think of anything to describe it.

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sosa looks like a stud out there....
...could Duncan have worked his magic yet again?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question
They base a free agent's draft "class" (or whatever it's called) on multiple years right?  Because if they go back 3 years for Marquis as a free agent we should get some good draft picks for him.  Better to send him to the bullpen than just DFA a pitcher with 12 wins regardless of his ups and downs.

Don't get me wrong - i think Marquis is kinda egotistical and not really any good...but I'd rather get something for nothing than nothing for nothing...

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2006 9:08 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah
they base what kind of picks you get back on the last 3 years I think.  I'd rather not lose possible 1st or 2nd round pick if we DFA Marquis.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But...
What if he accepts arbitration?  Then you're stuck with him.

by whopperman on Aug 8, 2006 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind...
bring on the Reds bullpen!!
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Milton done, Weathers warming up...
...meaning lefty pop comes back in the game and Pujols next inning gets and AB against David Weathers.

Things are looking up.  Just get us out of this inning Sosa.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW
Sosa is just plain nasty since we got him!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is he just throwing junk down and away
I know he's got some good mileage out of that arm...I hope he blows one by them on occassion or we just have another version of Marquis/Ponson/Weaver.

(Yes I know Weaver was good last night but color me skeptical...guys been off all year.  Good career numbers but let me see another start like that...then we'll talk)

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

his breaking pitch
is basically a nominal splitter, and yeah, he keeps it down and away. But he was striking people out on 95 mph fastballs that faded in on right-handers.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

92-96
with movement. It looks pretty good.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where is he locating them
I'm hoping your going to tell me inside...

stupid being at work and not being able to watch the game...

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2006 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

up and in, down and on the outside corner
There was pretty much nothing bad to take from his outing today. I'm not going to get irrationally exuberant this early, just like I didn't call a hit in on Weaver after he sucked for his first several starts, but today he looked unhittable.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 8, 2006 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
but I like having some zip on some of our pitches

we're just now starting to see that some more with Reyes and Sosa who throw a little bit harder than anyone not named Carpenter on the cardinals

it still has a lot to do with movement...but mph can cover some pitching sins quite nicely.

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2006 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you
Sosa for keeping us in this game and saving the rest of the Pen.  Aside from the closer, did Sosa just become our #2 guy out of the pen?

Let's hope the Cards jump all over the Reds bullpen.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd like to see him in the rotation myself
if he pitches like this all the time when wearing the Birds on the Bat...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judging by Weathers' pic on GC
it looks like he has Down's syndrome or something
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

How did Weathers
NOT get tossed there?  Shows him up on the mound, then gets in his face after the inning...

Wow

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Okay Tony...
Are you gonna leave Sosa out there until he fails or what?  Freakin give the guy a break and bring someone else in!

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

aight TJ
show us the LOOGY in you

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2006 9:22 PM EDT reply actions  

LOOGY
Lefthanded One Out Guy
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes...
... I know what LOOGY means, but "show us the LOOGY in you" just doesn't sound good.  

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

F-ing Belliard
you have to make that play.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:26 PM EDT reply actions  

not watching
but all too often i hear a shot past belliard, ball past belliard.

by erik on Aug 8, 2006 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, I'm watching the game on MLBTV
when all of a sudden, it kicks me off and says I'm in the stupid Cinci blackout region. I watch seven, and then they kick me off?

by fuegophil on Aug 8, 2006 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I using Mosaic...
and it's fine for me. I've had none of the problems that others are saying. Using in full-screen mode.

by jdubya on Aug 8, 2006 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did Griff get to 2nd
on a fielder's choice to the plate?
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2006 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Freel caught in a rundown
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

2-5-3-2-1
rountine play
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:30 PM EDT reply actions  

So do you have to be in the dugout
before you are considered out of the baseline?

What IS the rule on that?

"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 9:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Well...
You have to be attempting to avoid a tag to be called out for leaving the baselines.  I thought a tag was imminent enough on that play to justify the call, though.

by whopperman on Aug 8, 2006 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean back when our lefty specialists
could retire lefties consistently?
"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

by iron duke75 on Aug 8, 2006 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

DAMN IT TYLER JOHNSON
we NEED better LH relief pitching
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

1st pitch fastball?!?!?!
Why why why?

Just stupid.  Throw your best pitch (slider).  Dunn is sitting nothing but dead red fastball.

stupid.

by stltrav09 on Aug 8, 2006 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

So, Tyler Johnson...
...yeah, why do we leave our LOOGY guys our there after they've clearly not done their jobs?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Rats
I had a good feeling about a potential comeback until now.

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

We've scored 9 runs in the top of the 9th...
..against this team before.  It ain't over till it's over.  Still got pop (Edmonds, Duncan) on the bench.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2006 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

True enough...
Maybe it's a sign that State College just won it in the bottom of the ninth.  I love the name of Mahoning Valley's RF... sounds made up.

State College Bottom 9th

Pitcher Change: Matthew Meyer replaces Hart Hering.
Willian Sandoval singles on a fly ball to right fielder Cirilo Cumberbatch.
With Nathan Southard batting, Willian Sandoval steals (10) 2nd base.
With Nathan Southard batting, Willian Sandoval steals (11) 3rd base.
Nathan Southard triples (3) on a fly ball to right fielder Cirilo Cumberbatch. Willian Sandoval scores.
Allen Craig singles on a line drive to right fielder Cirilo Cumberbatch. Nathan Southard scores.

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Southard
When does he get the call to Quad Citites?  I guess when Jay moves up to Palm Beach.  Which probably won't happen until next year.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 8, 2006 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good question
He must have some speed as well as pop.  He had a walk-off (run off?) inside the parker about a week ago.  Tonight, he ties the game with a triple and then scores the winning run.

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just can't believe
We walked edwin encarnacion to pitch to ADAM DUNN with the bases loaded.

<3 tony's little cards.

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2006 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

2 Run single
by Will Farrell...thanks TJ!

by Big Rev on Aug 8, 2006 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

overflow thread is up
just in time for the comeback !!!!

by lboros on Aug 8, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

anyone on here
a lefty? maybe you could replace johnson...ohg and listening on sattelite radio reds guys suck

by punchinjudy on Aug 8, 2006 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Did Hancock...
... just replace BLooper mid-AB?  If so, any word on what happened to the Bloopmeister?

by punditmoi on Aug 8, 2006 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

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