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Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

the road to wellsville

you know the cliche: desperate times call for flabby, obnoxious, bald 43-year-old pitchers. now that they're finally convinced that mulder is toast --- and they are convinced now, aren't they . . . ? --- the cardinals are scouting david wells. a boston beat writer says st louis is taking a serious run at him. and the awful truth is that he would probably improve the rotation.

typical laduncan hurler: veteran, throws strikes, gets grounders, pitches to contact. i thought i'd puke when i first heard this idea, but after checking out wells's game log i've decided i can live with the acquisition if it happens. for the last month he has pitched quite effectively --- 2.65 era in august, 4 quality starts in 5 outings, a respectable k rate (5.3 per 9 innings) and an excellent k:w ratio (4:1). on the other hand, he's yielding a .287 opp average over that span and a .448 slugging avg, not impressive figures. he has survived by keeping the ball in the park (mostly) and not walking anybody --- thin margin for error, and he's only stayed within it for 4 or 5 starts. it's a total coin flip as to whether he can keep getting guys out over his next 5 starts; just as likely it all blows up on him. but really, what choice do the cardinals have? yeah, there's reyes, but tony/dave obviously have no intention of giving him a postseason start anyway, not under any circumstances; if the cards don't go out and get wells or some other replacement for mulder, then we're gonna have to watch both weaver and marquis make october starts --- if october lasts more than 3 games.

so the choice really isn't between wells and reyes; it's between wells and marquis. and if those are my two options, i'll take wells. stupid options, but that's reality.

the cardinals undoubtedly find wells' long record of postseason success attractive, but at his age that's fairly meaningless. to my knowledge, only 1 pitcher as old as 43 years old has ever started and won a postseason game: roger clemens, who did it last season vs the cardinals in the nlcs. i'm not 100 pct sure of myself on that; there may be a geezerer postseason winner in the record books somewhere. if you know who that might be, post a comment. i do know that 43-year-old dennis martinez won a playoff game in relief for the '98 braves; also that the cards' last championship team fielded a 43-year-old relief pitcher -- jim kaat, who pitched in a career-high 62 games for the '82 club (a career high in games at age 43?) and made another 4 appearances in the world series.

man, the greybeards are gonna be everywhere come october. randy johnson (43) will be making playoff starts for the yankees, and jamie moyer (pert near 44) will be doing the same for the phillies if that team wins the wild card; glavine (mets) and maddux (dodgers) are both 40, kenny rogers (tigers) is 41, and orlando hernandez (mets) is 40 going on 47 or something. so if the cards pin their hopes on a weary old arm, they won't be alone. best-case --- they pick up wells to replace mulder, come to their senses on reyes and give him marquis' slot, and go into october with carp supps wells and reyes in the rotation. a presentable group -- and likely the best st louis can muster in 2006.

re mulder's awfulness: his era is now 7.14, the 2d-worst single-season mark in franchise history among pitchers with 10 or more starts. here are the 10 worst era's:

year starts era
an benes 2001 19 7.38
mulder 2006 17 7.14
bu smith 2002 10 6.94
brooks 1955 10 6.56
sutcliffe 1994 14 6.52
briles 1970 19 6.24
sykes 1979 11 6.18
kline 1960 17 6.04
forsch 1984 11 6.02
aybar 1998 14 5.98

i'm on the road all day, back just before game time with an open thread.

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Manny Aybar
I hate you.  "Pitcher of the future" my ass.

The legend of Aybar (and of Ankiel, for that matter), is the primary reason why I trust no prospect to actually produce at the MLB level

by Valatan on Aug 30, 2006 3:48 AM EDT reply actions  

In the words of Lou Brock.............
"Do you know what a prospect is? Someone that has not done shit in the major leagues."

This is the honest to god truth. Came straight from his mouth in spring training a while ago.

by Poooo Daddy on Aug 30, 2006 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh...
1994 Rick Sutcliffe, I had such high hopes for you.

For shame.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Aug 30, 2006 4:12 AM EDT reply actions  

David Wells
My first instinct was to make some crack about longing for the Manny Aybar days but I see Valatan has already touched on that. Still, ever think you'd see the day when some of these ERAs would look good?

I'm all for getting Wells, but the truth is this team is flawed and if they give up much of anything to get him I'll be disappointed. He might push them over the top of the NL (might) but, even in a short series, I don't think the Birds are good enough to win the Series. Not with this starting pitching. Too bad Carp can't be cloned, or pitch effectively on one day's rest. Maybe that's the problem- Carpenter is soft...

by Pokey Joe on Aug 30, 2006 7:17 AM EDT reply actions  

I dunno
Wells is an experienced post-season pitcher. If our offence is hot, Carpenter and Wells won't be too bad of a 1-2 punch. And remember, you don't need a 5-man rotation in the playoffs. Our offence is going to be huge in deciding our playoff future.

by aet15 on Aug 30, 2006 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate our pitching corps
lets just leave it at that.  There can only be differing levels of hatred at this point.  

And I hate that we are teaching "pitch to contact" to kids in A ball.  *&%^#$(

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 30, 2006 7:45 AM EDT reply actions  

could
This whole "pitch to contact" thing be any more overblown?

Half of the Cardinal fans wouldnt know that term if it hit em in the head....now they read it a few times and are ready to jump off the Poplar Street Bridge.

Its one of those "baseball terms" that fans grab on to and make WAY too big a deal out of. Its not a big deal for those in the game and know...its fans who overreact to this stuff.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to think
that more than a few of us on this board have a decent idea of what "pitch to contact" means. Here is my read on the philosophy:

The purpose of a "pitch to contact" approach is to minimize the number of pitches thrown per batter and to minimize the damage caused by balls put into play. This is done by getting ahead of the hitters and to change speed & location (preferably low in the zone) in an attempt to get groundballs and other weakly struck outs. And the reason for doing this is to allow the hurlers to work longer into games, both from effectiveness and efficiency.

The problem that I see with our starters (outside of Carpenter) is that they don't throw enough strikes, especially early in the count, and that they are too predictable with their location in the zone. If I want a batter to swing at pitches out of the zone, he needs to be behind in the count to cause him to expand his zone. If I want a struck ball to be hit meekly to a fielder, I need to vary speed and location WITHIN the zone so he can't put a clean swing at the pitch. If I want to fool the batter into taking a less than perfect hack at my less than perfect pitches, I can't limit myself to one or two types of pitches in the bottom half of the zone.

Get ahead, keep them off balance, keep them guessing. Not fall behind and give in, go to the same pitch over and over, and stick to the same gameplan all the time.

Beano, if you have any thoughts that can add to or correct my earlier statements, I seriously welcome your input.

As for young Master Reyes, it is most certainly possible for a majority of his struggles to be attributed to his lack of experience and normal growing pains in his first real taste of the Majors. He has enjoyed success at nearly every level of his development, so he may be unaccustomed to failure and may be unable at this time to work his way out of it. It is also possible that his early, high-profile success caused his own failures, as opposing teams would have looked to video of the White Sox game for tips on how he tries to get batters out.

But to think that switching a significant portion of his pitch usage to an option he is unfamiliar and unsuccessful with would not have a profound effect is ridiculous. The amount of two-seamers that he is asked to throw (through game-planning and pitch selection offered by his catchers) is something that I would expect out of a spring training or rehabilitation start.

If a particular pitch isn't working during an outing, you try it a few more times to see if you can get it back or you scrap it for the rest of the night. For Duncan to have one of his pitchers throw something that is obviously not working, irregardless of the results, is foolish. One, it potentially ruins the pitcher's confidence because he can't go back to something that works. Two, you've basically broadcast to the hitters, "Guess what? I'm gonna throw this worthless sinker again. Have a rip!" (Would you want Izzy to continually throw his cutter because "it can be a great pitch", all the while he's being lit up like a Christmas tree? Oh shit, that already happened. OK, bad analogy ...)

I think Duncan is a hell of a pitching coach, worthy of all of the praise that is heaped on him. He has fixed many pitchers, the suspect veterans and the untamed. He has made the unwashed masses mediocre and the league-average league-leaders. I also think that Anthony has plenty to learn from Duncan and the other pitchers on the staff.

But to shove a process down the throat of the young hurler just because it's worked before with some other guys is just a bad idea. Let Reyes implement the two-seamer 5-10 times a game. Work with him during spring training to make sure he gets it; let him take his lumps down there.

Most importantly, let him overcome one hurdle at a time. Let him fail with his best stuff and learn from it; then you can come in with the perfect solution.

by Solanus on Aug 30, 2006 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention...
...that Reyes was clearly a flyball pitcher with good to great command all the way through the minors and up until July 1 in the majors...and then the month of July he's magically a groundball pitcher who walks a ton of batters -- but doesn't get people out at nearly the same clip.

by whopperman on Aug 30, 2006 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not just the phrase that evokes my wrath
I understand what they are going for.  The implementation is poorly done though.  Rather than making Reyes try and throw some damn 2-seam let him throw the 4 seam low in the zone.  

Or here's another idea.  If a pitcher has a pedigree of winning games and being effective w/o a 2-seam fastball or throwing low in the zone or pitching to contact, LET THEM.

Call it what you will but DD and TLR have tried to impose changes on a 24 year old player who has a track record of success.  That is foolish.  Why are we fixing things that aren't broken?  Just because DD/TLR think it might be a problem in the future?  It's a bad organization philosophy to want 5 pitching clones in your rotation that all lob the same slop over the bottom corners of the plate.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 30, 2006 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would rather
I would rather they teach them it in A ball then on the plane ride up from Memphis to St.Louis like they did with Reyes.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 30, 2006 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes
Im sure thats what they did. Is there any chance we can stop driving this into the ground or is that a pie in the sky wish?
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, relax
Pitching to contact is a fine philosophy, as long as  you also have some guys who can get outs on their own.

Regarding Reyes, he had success in the minors as a fastball-changeup guy. He's had little success in the majors as a sinkerballer.

I know there's light years of diff between AAA and the bigs, but what's wrong with letting him pitch the way he knows how? Then if he continually gets knocked around, then you can start tinkering with the sinker.

For a team that has started a sucky Marquis and an injured Mulder over and over, it seems that they should give Reyes the same chance as a four-seam guy.

Or maybe it's just more evidence that TLR and Dunc don't like young pitchers. >;-)

by 26thMan on Aug 30, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

hey
Im relaxed. I just dont see why we have to keep talking about the same thing, over and over and over again.

Again, I think people are making things up with Reyes regarding Duncan/LaRussa/pitch to contact. Never once has there been a quote or evidence that Duncan asked Reyes to never strike people out and never throw the four seamer. This is an urban legend that has taken on a life of its own.

What Duncan HAS done is ask Anthony to INCORPORATE a sinker into his repetoire. He hasnt said "you must change to exactly" this. He has just asked him to learn a new pitch. A pitch that will make him a more complete pitcher.

I only get pissed when I read these comments that Duncan is completely changing him. No, he isnt. He is ADDING to the arsenal he already has. If someone can find evidence to the contrary, let er rip. Until then, lets not make stuff up.

Many of the Reyes worshipers feel his success/struggles on the major league level are based EXCLUSIVELY on the fact that he has been asked to throw a sinker now and again. As for me, I kind of figure his successes/struggles on the major league level have to do with the fact that he is facing really good hitters...teams who are learning how to gameplan against him...basically he is doing what many, many, many other rookie pitchers have done before him. Have some good starts, and then some bad ones.

Case in point..Scott Olsen last night. He had been awful his previous three or so starts. Last night, he was great. So was that because he was asked to pitch completely different or was he just going through the normal bumps/bruises that almost all rookie hurlers go through?

Why would Reyes be immune to such early career struggles?

Again, can someone please point to actual quotes/articles/evidence that Duncan is trying to completely change Reyes?? I would love to see it. But, of course, people will still talk as if its the gospel.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not Reyes worship
It's the fact that Mulder and Marquis have been truly horrendous, and it's difficult to see why they have roster spots while Reyes, who has alternated between very good and below average does not merit a roster spot while these two consistently horrendous guys do.

by Valatan on Aug 30, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I actually
dont dispute this. If I were the manager Reyes would have stayed in the rotation while Mulder got things worked out. I thought that was the wrong move. I think Reyes should be back in the roation now.

However, this is an entirely different issue than the obession with the two-seam/pitch-to-contact/changing Reyes debate. They arent the same thing.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're looking for 'hard' evidence
but there's some logic at work here as well.  Maybe there's a relationship between the 2seam/ptc debate.

Question:  if all of us can see that reyes is one of the best five starting pitchers currently on the 40 man roster and should be with the major league club, wouldn't it lead you to believe that tlr/dunc who (as you indicate) know more about baseball than most of us would want him on the roster and pitching?

If he's not in the rotation, then wouldn't that indicate that he MAY have done something to displease one or both of them?  Such as NOT adopting a particular pitch or change in philosophy that has been "suggested?"

I'm not getting into whether he should or shouldn't change his repetoire/philosophy.  
One side:  tlr/dunc know what a picher needs to do to succeed in the majors.  
The other side:  Reyes has been successful thus far in his career with a different style than they are suggesting.  
I'm not sure which of those is more persuasive.

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think this is "Logic"
You are proposing an assumption. Logic stems from knowing ALL of the facts possible and deducing an observation. You really don't have very many facts. You have taken two pieces of info and suggested an assumption to correlate the two. That is NOT logic.

by foolish on Aug 30, 2006 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

foolish,
log‧ic  /ˈ[loj-ik]
-noun
1.    the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

Yep, that's what I did.

2.    a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: "We were unable to follow his logic."

Yep, that too.

3.    the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

Not so much.

4.    reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.

You may disagree whether or not it's sound, but not whether or not it's logic.

5.    convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

It seems that this is the definition that you were referring to.

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to start an argument man,
but i don't think your last post did any of those cool definitions. I think you took two pieces of info and filled in the blank between them. You don't have anywhere near "reliable" source, etc. that your definitions refer to.

by foolish on Aug 30, 2006 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that...
... nowhere you can find that Duncan asked Reyes to use the sinker exclusively, but you can easily find sentences where Duncan asked him to keep the ball low. Reyes is a high heat/changeup pitcher, a swing-and-miss apprach vs the pitch-to-contact one that Duncan seems to advice suggesting to keep the ball low and to throw a sinker. And even though I completely agree that adding a sinker to his arsenal would be devastating, this is at least painful for him to incorporate in his game plan, even more than throwing a good sinker.

I really believe that the advice Duncan gave Reyes is a good one, but it seems that there is something to work onto for Reyes to adopt it, maybe more mentally than physically.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Aug 30, 2006 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

understood
Duncan knows that pitches up in the zone generally result in more home runs than those lower in the zone. So far Anthony has been giving up far too many home runs at the major league level. I think we can agree on this.

If he cuts down on walks and home runs, he will be fine.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

he gives up the most homeruns
When he tries to throw the 2 seamer instead of pitching his 4 seamer and change-up.

The reason he pitches the 2 seamer is because Dunc tells him to.  When he pitches to his strengths instead of the one forced by TLR and Dunc (as he does in AAA or a couple games this year) he does better.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly
Is there any evidence that his home runs have come on his two-seamer as opposed to the four? I highly doubt this.
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

See an earlier post
It may not just be HR's but he gets hit harder in general when he uses the 2-seamer.

See the post here or here.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

again
Those were opinions. Did we actually see how many seams he was throwing the ball with?
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok
I give up.  I've given you a number of examples of why people believe that his 2-seamer is causing problems.  Now you're trying to argue that I don't know that it was a 2-seamer.

I do not have physical proof of this because a) I don't watch most of the games b) I probably wouldn't be able to tell you based on how it looks whether it is or isn't a 2/4 seamer.

Other people who do keep track of this stuff have made the comments I linked to above.

Again I'm not saying that Duncan is a bad pitching coach.  I'm just saying that in this case the evidence seems to support that when Reyes tries to throw that way he gets abused.

I'm not saying that if his 2-seamer was good, throwing it would be a bad idea, I'm just saying that there's evidence that at this point in time it's not really working for him ... and when he pitches it he gets hit more.

If you disagree with that I'm going to let someone else try to convince you because I don't know what else I can do.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes
Has been prone to the home run even in the minors. Again, this isnt a new thing. I dont care if its the four or two seamer, I would just like to see less home runs.

I blame Hurricane Katrina on the two-seamer.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's cause
George Bush doesn't care about the 2-seamer

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Making things up?
Truth be told, I don't have a list of facts and figures to throw out, but it doesn't take much to realize that the Cardinals pitching, aside from Carp, isn't built for overpowering opposing lineups.  Not many NL corps are built that way.  

Reyes, through his minor league career, has shown that he can absolutely overpower batters...he doesn't have to pitch to contact.  He pitches to no-contact.

Perhaps (and I'm just thinking aloud, like we're allowed to on this blog, I think) using the pitch-to-contact philosophy with power pitchers is the wrong idea.

Nobody knows for sure, except for perhaps Anthony himself.  But I don't think anyone here has made the definitive claim that Dave and Tony's pitching philosophy have "ruined" Reyes.  We see potential, and we're itchy to see him become who we think he can.

So, slow down with the "urban myth" stuff and realize this is a blog where people can say things and propose ideas and not necessarily have a research paper written to back it up.

Just admit it, the possibility of Reyes' change of character on the mound (between AAA and the majors) being attributable to TLR's and Duncan's philosophy exists.  Thats all some people here (myself included) are trying to say.

by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 30, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair
The possibility is there and that it has played a role. As long as you will admit that the possibility of his change of results on the mound is attributed to him facing better hitters, scouting reports, and the normal bumps/bruises that almost all rookie pitchers go through.

Again, Anthony ain't the first young pitcher to have some up and down results early in his career.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt...
...that he's adjusting to the big leagues as well, and will have to do that for some time to come.  No doubt also that this is affecting his performance.

We all wanted the guy to step in and be an instant barn-burner, but I think we'll settle for a transition period for what he's shown he's capable of.  I've got Cole Hamels on my fantasy team, and everytime he pitches, I think to myself, Reyes is as good or better.

I have total confidence in Duncan and his views on pitching, by the way.  The man has been nothing but successful, putting up what, 7 Cy Youngers?  And there's been no reports that I've seen, rumor or otherwise, saying that Reyes is angry or frustrated with any changes put on him by Dunc or TLR.  But it does take a certain type of player to take constructive criticism on needing adjustments or adding pitches to succeed.  I wonder what kind of emotions the guy feels after being the best thing since corn dogs in the minor league and coming up to the next level and being told he needs more.

by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 30, 2006 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

true
But he probably isnt the first guy to hear that they need more when the get to the majors. In fact, Im sure most guys have heard that.

I just read a couple different articles on Felix Hernandez of the Mariners. A much higher rated prospect that Reyes who has struggled. He has been told to "pitch" more and "throw" less. These types of struggles arent unique to Reyes.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that there is a certain
rookie element to it.  young players have rough spots.  

But at the beginning of the year Reyes was sent down to the minors to explixcity work on the sinking fastball.

I just don't understand... why do we want Reyes to add a sinking fastball?  Isn't a 4-seam, changeup, curve enough?  I don't understand the motivation behind having him master that ONE pitch when he didn't need it before (last year in the bigs or earlier this year).

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 30, 2006 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duncan changing Reyes
I don't have any documented evidence, but I did talk to a couple of Cardinal players at a restaurant during spring training and these were the interesting comments.
  1. Management was very worried about Reyes mechanics because they were so similar to those of Mark Prior and they fear durability issues.
  2. Duncan constantly makes the pitchers throw 2 seamers instead of 4 seamers. (So much so that pitchers who desperately want to make the roster have nearly stopped throwing 4 seamers.)
  3. The players recognized that they had a 2nd Base problem by the end of the first week of spring training games.
  4. Marquis hates the pitch to contact philosophy and wants desperately to strike guys out. (Macho thing)(He tried it early in the year by throwing more 4 seamers and curveballs...with mixed results.)
  5. John Mabry would have played in St. Louis for nearly nothing in 2006, had the Cards wanted him.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Aug 30, 2006 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

truthfully
i feel bad for mulder
it hasnt been lack of effort or trying
he just doesnt have anything to offer
is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Aug 30, 2006 8:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Why feel bad?
Sure, it's not a great thing.  But he's made a ton of cash this year to play a game.

by sdrone on Aug 30, 2006 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

and to build a house in AZ
where he will be playing next year.

by Poooo Daddy on Aug 30, 2006 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope Mulder
Invested his money wisely. Looks like an awful lot like his career may be over. However, i'm sure some team will take a 1 year flyer on him this off season for a million or so.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 30, 2006 8:32 AM EDT reply actions  

just a million
talk to Nomar

Mulder will get a year @ 4-5 million + incentives

pitching is that expensive right now

talk to Oswalt

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 30, 2006 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

he isn't done
He needs to shut it down for a long time (3-4 months).  If the shoulder has no structural damage, then this is just weakness.  Time will heal most of this. After that religious physical therapy and strength training will heal the rest.

by BigJawnMize on Aug 30, 2006 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

The question will be....
whether or the not the cardinals are willing to gamble 5 million dollars on that idea. personally, I'm not.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Aug 30, 2006 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

nah, me neither
he have to be willing to go two years for 1.5 million per + incentives, before I would even consider it.  He is in a situation not unlike carps a couple years back, although his ailments aren't as severe.

by BigJawnMize on Aug 30, 2006 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

The situation is similiar
to Carpenter, but in this case I think there will be a lot of teams willing to overpay for mulder. Carp didn't necessarily have that luxury. due to the fact,like you said, Carpenter's injuries were more severe.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Aug 30, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Wells??
Well, the up-side is, he could keep Albert's restaraunt in business all by himself!

by fuegophil on Aug 30, 2006 8:33 AM EDT reply actions  

well after
picking up ponson, sosa, and belliard, i guess wells is just the next logical step in increasing the team's waistline

by MarcGldstn on Aug 30, 2006 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Rub-A-Dub-Dub
...Cards could have had two flub tubs. It's hard to believe the Cardinals didn't acquire Bob Wickman from Cleveland before the Braves did given Izzy's erratics. Then we could potentially have seen Wickman come in to save the game for Wells. Yadi would simply have had to glue a picture of a pizza on the inside of his catcher's mitt for those guys to hit his target.
Baily

by Baily on Aug 30, 2006 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

mmm, baseball pizza
what and ruin a perfectly good pizza?  maybe they should try a picture of dr atkins... then when they're good an mad, you might get a little extra oomph.

by gthedamned on Aug 30, 2006 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wells
I'd give up the whole farm system to see that fat man wearing the birds on the bat.

by stlmapman on Aug 30, 2006 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

They could always
call me to come and pitch. I fit LaDuncan's profile to the T.. I'm old(54), will most definitely pitch to contact, since I have no life in my arm, and I'll be cheap to sign.

by cardsrul on Aug 30, 2006 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahaha
i love it

I think my 5 year old brother could have hit that 69mph "changeup" Mulder threw last night...sad to see someone who was so good fall so fast (esp. while playing for the Cardinals - not so sad when its Wood/Prior)

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 30, 2006 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bud Smith
got figured out pretty quick, huh?

At least he has that no hitter.

by Schnake on Aug 30, 2006 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm confused
about why so many people feel sorry/bad for Mulder.

I mean, here's a guy who is making 7,750,000 this year to perform poorly.  

I recognize it's difficult/sad to watch anyone just fall apart at something that they used to do so well, but, if his career is over, he made more money than most us us will likely make in our lifetimes.

For throwing a baseball, playing a game.  

It's not like Tom Browning whose arm broke while he was throwing the pill, or Dravecky who lost his arm to cancer.  

and, if earlier posts here are true and he's going back for another mri, he's a fool for having been pitching hurt and or not knowing he was hurt.

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

sd...
check out Matt Leach's blog for some interesting info and words from Mulder himself...

by cardsrul on Aug 30, 2006 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks rul
but I'm still perplexed about feeling sorry for him.  

It's almost worse:  he knows something is wrong and keeps going out there.  

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel bad for him
I'm not asking people to hold a candlelight vigil for him or anything, and I realize that he's taken home a lot of coin this year and over the course of his career. Still, regardless of how well-compensated someone is or not, it's hard not to feel at least somewhat bad for someone struggling so mightily and so publicly.

by steve in georgia on Aug 30, 2006 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know
about you but it I don't enjoy seeing people struggle like that. Especially someone you like.

How much money he makes means nothing in this equation. Again, no one said we should hold a candlelight vigil but it doesnt give me joy to see someone who used to be so good, be so bad in such a short period of time.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not suggesting "joy"
but I also acknowledged in the intial post that "I recognize it's difficult/sad to watch anyone just fall apart at something that they used to do so well."  

I feel sorry for people affected by katrina, for people with cancer, for people dealing with a variety of adversitites; but a multimillionaire (yes, money has something to do with it) who may only be hurt and worse case is moving on with his life?

Nah, I can't feel sorry for him.

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree
about the money. Its relative. What is alot to someone isnt alot to someone else. It should be taken out of the equation here.
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm
I don't know if I can jump on your bandwagon there.  I feel sympathy for a guy who can't go out and pitch like that but it's kind of a awe that's too bad sort of feeling.  Kind of like when you see a kitten that can't get up on the couch kind of way.

I'm not going to shed a tear for a guy who's made more money than I'll probably ever see in my life and can now spend the rest of his life chilling out and playing golf.

I think the point is that there are lots of people who face tragic situations who deserver more sympathy than a major league pitcher with some arm slot problems.

What this has to do with baseball in general ... who knows.  I guess it gets back to the continued debate about whether "he has heart" or not.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel syndrome?
It's either that he lost the ability to pitch or something is wrong with his arm.

He shouldn't be pitching like the way he is.  He should have had a surgery in June.

by cardsfan84 on Aug 30, 2006 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again with the surgery...
.. you cant just cut a guy open when there is nothing structurally wrong. What is surgery going to do when there is nothing to put back together in there? Its not surgery he needs its a Shrink!!

by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 30, 2006 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

w/ apologies to bernstein
what this boy needs is...

a social worker

some discipline

a loving home

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2006 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has it been mentioned that Well's contract...
calls for a 200K bonus for each start made beginning with his 11th start?

David Wells p
2 years/$8M (2005-06)

    * signed as free agent 12/04
    * $3M signing bonus
    * 05:$2.5M, 06:$2.5M
    * may earn additional $10M in incentives based on starts:
          o $0.2M for 11-20 GS, $0.3M for 21-30 GS

Yow!  I'm not lobbying against it, I just wonder if ownership will.

He's made 8 starts, so the next two are already paid for.  He's scheduled to take his turn Thursday, IIRC, so if you acquired him and he started Thursday he'd likely make 7 starts before the end of the regular season.  That's 2.5MM...for a month.  

That'll be a hard sell for Jocketty.

youneverknow

by meat on Aug 30, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

what else can they do?
Wells...I can't say I'm jumping up and down over the thought of him joining the Cards...but really at this point?..what else can they do? Anyone else of quality would have to clear waviers and that is not going to happen...so what the hell, pile that fat man onto the stack  of other disgards and bargain basement replacements that the Cards have picked up this season.  But my question then is...what about the lack of offense?  I mean lets face it..if ANY team throws a left handed starter at us, we seem to just be toast. Wells will possibly help one weakness, but there may be just too many others for this team to go far in the next couple of months...

by Timbo02 on Aug 30, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Oswalt
Somebody mentioned him earlier, and I really hope there's a chance we could pick him up for next year. It would be worth it just so he didn't pitch against us..... I think he's fairly young too??

by fuegophil on Aug 30, 2006 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Frick
Oh well, another dream shattered.................

by fuegophil on Aug 30, 2006 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

$73m for 5 years
$14.6m/year, thereabouts.

Is that the sound of Mulder crying?

by sdrone on Aug 30, 2006 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice home-town discount
2007  $13M
2008  $13M
2009  $14M
2010  $15M
2011  $16M
2012  $12M club option w/2M buyout

And a complete no trade clause.

FWIW pecota says he maxed out at $13M this year and will fall from $11M next year to $6M in 2010.  And that is assuming he never gets hurt!

Of course pecota is awful for predicting performance but still, it is a brave move for the astros- they are setting themselves up for bagwell pt 2.  Now if we can talk them into signing clemens again next year...

You either get all the glory or all the... goat hair. -mike shannon

by SleepyCA on Aug 30, 2006 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

46 year old Hoyt Wilhelm
pitched 72 games in 1968, one off his career high.  The next two years he pitched in 52 and 53 games.

by Mad Lithuanian on Aug 30, 2006 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Izzy
Not to get the dump Izzy debate going again, but just to pass on an interesting factoid -- Buster Olney had a list of the top ten closers by efficiency all time and Izzy was the 8th.  

I guess it just makes me want to give him a bit of pass for what has been an off year.  Here's hoping he finishes the year strong.

by OCCardsFan on Aug 30, 2006 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

david wells
hey, if bronson arroyo can be in the mix for the nl cy young, the cardinals can get six functional starts from david wells.  at this point, a rotation of

carp
suppan
marquis
reyes
wells

looks better than if those last 2 lines were

mulder
weaver

by sjoshi on Aug 30, 2006 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Oswalt and Ankiel
Is it me or has Oswalt looked less "stellar this year" he has lloked very beatable IMO. I always feared him more than the rocket.

Ankiel I always thought another fat boy was responsible for some of his problems Carlos hernandez. I was a cathcer not great but certain pitchers preferd me due to hustle. even though the other guy had a better arm.

Pitchers prefer certain guys..ask tim wakefield. I think with matheny out it affected him some. not all some

by punchinjudy on Aug 30, 2006 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

You always look less stellar
when your team doesn't score any runs for you.

by sdrone on Aug 30, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats not what im refering too
he just doesnt give me the fear that he once did. Maybe your partially right if he was on the yankess id fear him cause of the O. To me it just seemed like he was once a shut down guy everytime out and now seems beatable. That said id still take him on any team. He better than the guys the cards have.

by punchinjudy on Aug 30, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Red Sox are asking the world for Wells...
or atleast alot more than he is worth. Epstein asked for Matt Kemp + a prospect from the Dodgers for Wells. Matt Kemp is worth much more than wells. You can pretty much guarantee the names Reyes and Wainwright will be used if the Cardinals want to acquire him.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 30, 2006 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I see
a Stu Pomeranz in the Sox' future.

by DCGreg on Aug 30, 2006 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

then...
Walt would laugh them out of the room...
"Seeing a great catch is like watching girls walk by, the last one you see is always the prettiest." Bob Gibson

by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 30, 2006 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Edmonds and Mulder both done for season?
I just saw this story:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=cardinalsinjuries&prov=st&type=lgns

ST. LOUIS (TICKER)  -- The St. Louis Cardinals reportedly could be without lefthander Mark Mulder and center fielder Jim Edmonds for the rest of the season.

The web site of the St. Louis Post Dispatch reported Wednesday that Mulder will undergo an MRI and further testing on his ailing left shoulder after lasting just 1 2/3 innings in Tuesday's start.

In a separate story, the website also reported that Edmonds, who has been suffering from post-concussion syndrome, also will undergo tests this week. The Cardinals are uncertain whether he will return this season.

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 30, 2006 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

just read that too
I read that on the RSS feed.  I can believe Mulder, because he just doesn't have it.  But Edmonds?  Would it seriously just be PCS?  I'm not a doctor but that seems weird.

by jroman on Aug 30, 2006 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

PCS
can, at times, be completely debillitating. Just moving your head from side to side can be a problem. Blurry vision and dizziness are also common effects. If he can't see well or stand up without getting light-headed, he sure as hell can't play.

by cardsrul on Aug 30, 2006 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup
Just look at what happened to Mike Matheny this year.
Invisible Gophers---2006 Tempe, AZ Slow Pitch Softball Champs!!!

by BigdJC on Aug 30, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

LaRussa can't decide if progress has been made?
I liked this line from the article:

<QUOTE>"We were looking for the next step (in his progress)," Cardinals manager Tony La Russa said. "We'll discuss whether it was made or not."</QUOTE>

Reminds me of a post that lboros made the other day about Tony making comments just like this one.

Now, I realize I'm not the manager, but uh, I don't think you need to discuss whether giving up 5 runs in 1 and 1/3 innings is good progress.  It's not.

by sgfcards on Aug 30, 2006 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think what Tony may look at is this...
...Mulder would have gotten out of the first had Rolen not gotten cute with the ball down the line.

Mulder had gotten to 2 outs in the 2nd without giving up any runs in the 2nd and in fact had a chance of getting out of that inning had he gloved the ball hit right back to him.

While, you...me and Dupree over there know that Mulder had none stuff out there on the mound, as far as situationally, Mulder did improve to an extent.

The worst part of the whole evening was watching him get back up on the bump and get the signs after every pitch.  He was breathing heavy, trying to take deep breaths and saying to himself under his breath "Okay....Okay" like he was trying to remember how to pitch.

Yikes.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 30, 2006 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW the last name of the guy in 1955
was Lawrence. His first name was Brooks.

He was a black guy that got a late start in pro ball and had a fine season in 1954 and then a couple of really good seasons for the Reds.

I think somebody here posted an all-time Cardinal black player lineup. Lawrence would fit into the rotation.

By the way, I think they had Dmitri Young at first base.

Somehow, Bill White must've been overlooked.

by DizzyDean17 on Aug 30, 2006 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

A flyer on Wells
Actually there is a preidence in the Cardinals acquireing alcholic, over the hill pitchers for the strech run...Grover Cleveland Alexander and we know what happened with him.

by Birds on the Bat in AZ on Aug 30, 2006 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh
Did he become President?

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 30, 2006 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just wondering
Can anyone let me know the status of Al Reyes? Is he going to try and make a comback and if so, will it be with the Cardinals?
Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Aug 30, 2006 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

he's in
the devil rays system last i heard... signed with them in the off season, pitching rehab in the minors.

by gthedamned on Aug 30, 2006 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Al Reyes
He recently started pitching in relief for the Durham Bulls.  I'm not sure about the specifics of his contract, but a return with St. Louis doesn't look imminent.  stats

by Elle on Aug 30, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

From ESPN.com's preview of tonight's game
Quote:"The Cardinals counter with Jason Marquis (13-12, 5.77), who will be making his team-high 28th start and first against Florida.

Marquis was not sharp in his last start Wednesday, giving up seven runs in six innings in a 6-2 loss to the New York Mets. The righthander has struggled in his last six starts, going 1-5 with a 6.44 ERA."

  1. Damn it!  Marquis has made the most starts for us.  Not good.
  2. He's so bad, that in his last start, he gave up runs that didn't even show up on the scoreboard!
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 30, 2006 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Why are all Mets fans...
Total tools? Whether it's on message boards or in real life, EVERY Met fan i've ever encountered this year is a total ass. Like 10x worse than Yankees fans. I can't wait for them to take it up the arse in the playoffs from the Dodgers or whatever AL Team is in the World Series.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 30, 2006 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Mets will not go all the way this year
The baseball gods are watching...and eventually, they will make the Mets pay for "Our Team, Our Time".

The reckoning is coming...BOOK IT! :-)
 

END OF LINE...

by iron duke75 on Aug 30, 2006 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh-oh...
get ready for no Zito and no Schmidt this winter. DeWitt is emerging as the leader of the "let's do it the Twins way" movement.

From Ken Rosenthal on the amazing Marlins:

"...even certain owners are figuring out that decision-making is as important as money-making for a franchise to achieve long-term success.

Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr., defending his team's budget, inadvertently violated the owners' code last week, telling the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, "Everybody wants there to be a linear relationship between payroll and winning. The facts don't support that."

Memo to Ken and Bill: You need to spend money AND make good decisions to win the World Series!!!

Is this really so difficult to understand?

by guayzimi on Aug 30, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

"the facts don't support that"??
What the crap is he talking about?? Hasn't he ever heard of this little team from New York that has won 26 World Series, amost three times what the Cardinals have won??

Rosenthal should have interviewed Steinbrenner.

by fuegophil on Aug 30, 2006 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, that would specifically be the team
that blows the linear relationship to hell.

by sdrone on Aug 30, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but...
... the Mets, Cubs, Phillies, and Astros have been near the top of payroll the past few seasons without much to show for it.

they aren't talking about spending 215 million (like the Yankees) because it isn't feasible. they are talking about the difference between 95-100 million or 90-95 million.

and they are right. it's about decision-making, not just throwing money around. if it were about simply throwing money around, then Steve Phillips would still have a job somewhere.

by kindred on Aug 30, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bernie says no-go on Wells
From his forum:

Forget about it...
It's over....

Red Sox about 2 hours ago rejected the Cardinals' offer of a prospect or two from the lower levels of the minors.

The Red Sox told the Cardinals they could have Wells in exchange for one of these three players:

Adam Wainwright
Chris Duncan
Colby Rasmus

Oh, sure...

Jocketty was right to turn that down. Wells could blow up at anytime. He's one pitch away from a season-ending injury.

--B

by DCGreg on Aug 30, 2006 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

He's right, of course
It's not clear that giving up Duncan or Wainwright would leave the team any better off for THIS year, let alone 07, 08 and 09.

If this is the kind of trade the Sox are demanding, I don't see how they make a deal at all.

by DCGreg on Aug 30, 2006 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like the Red Sox are not very serious about
dealing him. Of course, the way this season has gone, I fully expect Wells to now go to the Reds for some 25-year-old, sub-Mendoza-line fourth outfielder from Single A.

by steve in georgia on Aug 30, 2006 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is the same logic
Asking for the moon led to Washington not trading Soriano, when it would have been the highly logical thing to do:

Trade a player for something, even a low-level prospect, now, or lose him at the end of the season and get zilch?  Seems like a no-brainer, especially for the Sox.  Wells has indicated he might retire, in which case they truly get nothing.  At least Washington will get a draft pick when Soriano signs elsewhere.

This also smells like a ploy...the Sox watched Mulder last night, too.  They were hoping to catch Walt in panic mode.  They may still come back when they find out no one else will give them a ML-ready player for a month's worth of Wells, either.

by blove121 on Aug 30, 2006 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's interesting
Is that supposedly there is going to be a change in the draft pick compensation for the loss of free agents in the offseason.

Essentially there would no longer be compensation for that.

You can read a little about it here.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 30, 2006 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

not surprised
given what they supposedly asked of the Dodgers.  If they asked the Dodgers for one of the top CF prospects around, why would they settle for a AA suspect from us?

All this is not meant to be an explanation for what Epstein is thinking/doing.  He will have Wells for a month, miss the playoffs, and wind up with nothing because he held out for an unrealistic trade.

by tdawg on Aug 30, 2006 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

he wanted
that for a 1 month rental. What is Theo Jim Bowden now? Give me a break.
aka "the Rev"

by erik on Aug 30, 2006 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Surgery for Mulder
From the FoxSports website:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5919530

I wonder if continuing to trot him out there in May/June and July/August made it worse....

by wildman on Aug 30, 2006 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

and from his replacement candidate...
"RHP Anthony Reyes, demoted to Triple-A Memphis earlier this month, was the Pacific Coast League pitcher of the week after going 2-0 and allowing no runs in 13 innings with 17 strikeouts"

from ESPN.com

by wildman on Aug 30, 2006 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't blame him
for seeking a 2nd opinion. I'm not sure I trust Paletta anymore...

by cardsrul on Aug 30, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rolen didn't trust Paletta....
....he went to that doc in Cincinnati for his shoulder surgery last year.

by wildman on Aug 30, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...
Cubs climb back from a 7-3 hole to take a 9-7 lead in the eleventh and Dempster gives up 3 in the bottom half. Swept by the Pirates... Just when you think they've hit a floor they go crashing through... And they extended Hendry and are threatening to bring back Baker. Unbelievable...

by guayzimi on Aug 30, 2006 4:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Larussa Glossary
a post from Bernie's Pressbox:

You saw what I saw = I've got no answers
Pitch to contact = 2 run HR
Lefthanded pitching = another L
Play a hard nine = trot out the struggling pitcher de jour and hope the offense shows up
Chris Carpenter = Cy Young winner with ANY support from the bullpen (e.g., Isringhausen)
Neatest guy ever = So Taguchi
Our best available option = fans' worst nightmare
He did some good things out there = He had no clue out there
We just couldn't make a pitch to get out of the inning = I left him out there too long again.
I don't know if he's going to be available = Our medical staff has no idea what they're doing
Physically he''s fine = No, he's not
It's mental = I'm mental
Izzy's our only option = We're hosed
The only mistake he made was walking the leadoff batter = That's the kind of intelligence we look for in a pitcher
He was good to go a couple days ago = No, he wasn't
His results were mixed = His results varied between awful and horrendous
We gave it an outstanding shot = We played a hard eight.
No excuses = It wasn't me
It was exciting in the first inning = And then our opponent batted.
When our pitching is vulnerable we protect it = When our pitching is vulnerable they crush it.
I think he just tried to press early - I think he's just making up his own game plan.
I think his pitch selection wasn't very good in the first half = His pitch selection wasn't any better the second half.

by cardsfan2222 on Aug 30, 2006 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

why
post this?
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

why
be such a jerk to everyone who has posted on here today?

by cardsfan2222 on Aug 30, 2006 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

who
Have I been a jerk to? I've disagreed with some opinions but thats the beauty of the forum.

Please provide an example where I was a "jerk" to someone.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

why?...
because a little levity is always welcome here I think man....and what is the harm anyway?..

by Timbo02 on Aug 30, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

well
Its basically just a rip Tony post. Thats one thing I like about this forum. The personal stuff stays away. We dont always agree but its usually just baseball discussion not something like this.

FYI, it isn't even funny. If your gonna post that, make it funny :)

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Aug 30, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay....
but humor is in the eye of the beholder yes?...and there are over 110 posts here that do address baseball....so really?...was it nesessary to jump on Cardsfan about it? ...you could have just moved past it and posted something that you found more interesting...but some of us obviously found the humor in it...so perhaps?... just let it go next time... This IS a great site..and allowing someone to express their frustrations with a little humor is not such a bad thing..now is it?..

by Timbo02 on Aug 30, 2006 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's harmless tongue-in-cheek humor
I like Tony as a manager and I still found it funny.

There are plenty of humorous posts on this site (see the Gary Bennett diary for example).

by bailorg on Aug 30, 2006 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mulder reportedly has
fraying around his labrum. He is seeking a second opinion. He may decide to have season ending surgury and be ready to start throwing by January.

by cards19 on Aug 30, 2006 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe he'll have surgery
and we can sign him cheap, and he'll come back and be a decent pitcher for a couple of years. Or am I mistaken? Is this something that is career-ending and cannot be repaired surgically?

by fuegophil on Aug 30, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I do not understand
is why this diagnosis is coming as a surprise to anyone?  

It should have been obvious to anyone that Mulder was not capable of getting Major League batters out before he threw five pitches.  Who the hell is accountable?  Even if Mulder could be accused of overconfidence, he didn't warm up in the dark.  I've got to put this on Duncan to start, and LaRussa for not stopping it before it began.

And forget the idea of a bullpen game this weekend, we had one last night.

by Intheway on Aug 30, 2006 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

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