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sizing up the mvp candidates

those of you who read Reverend Redbird have heard by now that the blog will be discontinued. that's a loss for the card-blogosphere --- the rev will be missed. but he won't disappear entirely; erik manning, aka the rev, has agreed to write a weekly post here at VEB. i'm psyched to have him on board --- he's a great writer who knows the game, knows the organization, and knows the cardinal tradition. he does tend to overuse capital letters, but just let that go --- he'll do a great job anyway. erik's gonna be posting every sunday -- fitting day to hear from a reverend, no? -- starting this week. i'm really looking forward to his contributions. so welcome, erik, and thank you for adding your voice to the site.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

ken rosenthal opined on sunday that st louis native ryan howard ranks right up there with pujols and beltran as a leading contender for the nl mvp trophy heading into september. yesterday joe sheehan at baseball prospectus wrote (subscrip only) that the marlins' miguel cabrera belongs on the short list. and i'll add my own dark-horse candidate: lance berkman, a one-man offense who very quietly ranks among the league leaders in almost everything.

there's still a month left to play, so it's way too soon to be handing out the award --- but not too soon to size up the race. coming out of an off day, this morning seems a fine time to do some comparin' n contrastin'.

without further ado, then, i give you this table: the numbers in parentheses indicate the player's rank among nl hitters in that particular category:

pujols beltran howard cabrera berkman
HR 38 (t3) 38 (t3) 46 (1) 23 (t17) 36 (6)
RBI 107 (4) 108 (3) 121 (1) 97 (6) 110 (2)
R 94 (7) 104 (3) 79 (22) 92 (8) 75 (t27)
AVG .323 (5) .286 (34) .292 (26) .340 (2) .308 (12)
OBP .424 (2) .390 (11) .381 (17) .429 (1) .414 (4)
SLG .665 (1) .633 (2) .623 (3) .590 (6) .614 (4)
OPS 1.089 (1) 1.022 (3) 1.004 (5) 1.018 (4) 1.027 (2)

if you worship at the altar of OPS, then you like this quintet of candidates --- they're 1 through 5 in the nl in that category, widely used as a quick-dirty shorthand for overall offensive production. as i read these numbers, pujols currently has the strongest claim on the award, for a simple reason: he's the only one of these five players to rate among the nl's top 10 in all 7 of these categories. just scan down his column: he's a top-five player on 6 of the 7 leaderboards; his lowest ranking is 7th place (runs scored), and even there he has the 2d-highest total among these candidates. albert also leads the national league in two of the categories (slugging and ops); among the other candidates, only howard (hr, rbi) and cabrera (obp) are league leaders in anything.

let's turn now to some of the more popular sabermetric measurements and see how the contenders stack up. to the numbers:

pujols beltran howard cabrera berkman
VORP 65.4 (2) 62.8 (3) 48.5 (7) 66.0 (1) 54.6 (4)
WinSh 27 (t1) 27 (t1) 17 (18) 21 (5) 24 (3)
EqAv .337 (1) .321 (4) .312 (7) .330 (2) .323 (3)
RC/27 9.63 (1) 8.85 (3) 8.44 (6) 8.79 (4) 9.21 (2)
WPA 6.93 (1) 4.63 (3) 5.55 (2) 4.01 (4) 3.61 (5)

pujols' case burns even brighter by these lights. scan down his column again --- he holds or shares the national league lead in 4 of these 5 categories, and ranks a close 2d in the last one. while both beltran and cabrera also fare very well on these charts, it would appear that the award is albert's to lose . . . . well, that's too strong. let's put it this way: my 1st-place vote would be his to lose, if'n i had a ballot. but i don't, of course, and each of the men who do have a vote tends to have his own way of looking at things. some will find ry howard's gaudy hr and rbi totals irresistible; others will be persuaded by beltran's all-around excellence and his team's league-best won-lost record. beltran's point total will probably be goosed just a tad by virtue of his playing in the Center of the Known Universe; he also will (and should) get extra credit for playing a key defensive position and playing it well. but albert's got a high profile and is a likely gold-glove defender this season, so he may neutralize beltran's advantages. if the vote were held today, i think it would be a pretty close call between those two; the other three are all within striking distance, though, and with a hot september any of them could get in position to win the award. cabrera appears to have nearly as viable a candidacy as beltran, and berkman isn't far behind; if either guy's team wins 20 september games and makes the playoffs, one of them could sneak off with the award.

the stat that might represent pujols' strongest argument is also the one that's least understood: WPA, or win probability added. i've referred to it enough times that most of you know it by now; for those who don't, read up here. WPA puts players' production into context, reflecting how much it contributed toward actual wins. in this system, a walkoff three-run homer like the one pujols hit vs the reds easter sunday counts for infinitely more than a three-run homer that comes in the 9th inning of a 10-run blowout. pujols leads the major leagues in WPA; not even david ortiz, with all his walkoff hits, has directly improved his team's fortunes more than el hombre. voters are constantly groping for the essence of "valuable," looking beyond the numbers --- or deeper into them --- to sift through intangibles like which guy hits in the clutch, which guy executes the "little" things, which guy leads by example, which guy raises the game of the players around him, and so on and so forth. these are all valid considerations, imho, albeit completely subjective in most cases. most voters want to base their vote on more than what's in a guy's stat line; WPA gives them an excellent benchmark for doing so. it reflects not just how many hits a guy got but also how meaningful they were. evidently pujols has gotten a lot of meaningful hits --- more than any of his rivals for the mvp award; more, indeed, than any player in baseball.

remind me at the end of the season, and i'll re-run these tables with the full-year data. for now, suffice to say that albert is mounting a tremendous defense of his mvp trophy.

0 recs  |  Comment 87 comments

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I believe that
More then Howard or Beltran, the real threats are Berkman and Cabrera, the only other players that carry the team on their shoulders. But I believe that El Hombre is carrying a heavier weight.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Aug 29, 2006 6:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who is the NL MVP?
Sorry guys, but it's none of the above. The correct answer is Gary Bennett.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Aug 29, 2006 7:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You mean...
Future Hall of Famer Gary Bennett?
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 29, 2006 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there
any other?
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Aug 29, 2006 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is the fund drive going?
for the GB statue to go next to Stan's?

by Intheway on Aug 29, 2006 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he keeps smacking the Cubs
I'll fund the thing myself!

by sdrone on Aug 29, 2006 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thnx again larry...and about lance
for the opp. it's really on honor, veb is a must read for me every day. i'm looking forward to it and i hope i can do a good job.

as far as berkman goes, yes he does deserve mention...but i still can't stand the guy. can there be a most valuable jerk award?

looking at those numbers i think most of us will take pujols, but i'm guessing beltran will win it. we'll see how the last month of the season plays out.

(all small case post)

aka "the Rev"

by erik on Aug 29, 2006 8:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What is it about Berkman that you don't like?
He seems like a pretty nice dude, all things considered. Granted, I might not feel that way after he's bruised and battered Cardinals pitching yet again.

by steve in georgia on Aug 29, 2006 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: most valuable jerk award
That goes to Jeff Kent, hands down...

by cardsrul on Aug 29, 2006 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny Lofton? the good ol' double B?
Of course, Albert Belle gets to sit as the king of the hall of fame--those career numbers are hard to reach...

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and don't forget
Carlos "Loose-Cannon" Zambrano... he's got to be in the running, right? Especially after that game last year when he plunked Edmonds twice in the same spot?

by ArachNerd on Aug 29, 2006 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was 2004
I believe the day went Edmonds plunk in the asscheek, Edmonds 460 foot shot out onto the street. Edmonds strike out, Edmonds plunk. Same series Pujols hit 3 homeruns in one game.
"Seeing a great catch is like watching girls walk by, the last one you see is always the prettiest." Bob Gibson

by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 29, 2006 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the
And Carp's "you'd better talk to your boys" comment to Sosa.  And Rolen's home run.

by sdrone on Aug 29, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so...
I'm pretty sure Carp's talk to your boy comment to Corky was at Busch, and I KNOW Jed's bomb was at Wrigley.

by whopperman on Aug 29, 2006 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Though I guess I should have also
brought up Ty Cobb and Rogers Hornsby into this discussion, so long as we're talking about the jerk baseball players' hall of fame.

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
But none of these guys seem to hit as many cheap out...cough...home runs into a short porch in left field in the playoffs against the Cardinals like "Twinkle Toes".
A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Aug 29, 2006 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
it's not like being able to hit flies to the short porch makes you a jerk.  It just means you want to win.

I'd nominate the crazy person who designed that stadium.  "What it really needs is a hill and three flag poles in the middle of the outfield.  OOH OOH AND TRAIN!!!"

by dontEATnachos on Aug 29, 2006 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think in that case
he deserves the Ned Williamson 196-footer lifetime achievement award. The Jerk Award can go to erstwhile teammate Roger Clemens.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 29, 2006 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Fella's... come on!..
How can you hate a guy with the best nickname in baseball  FAT ELVIS....!!  I love it.

by Timbo02 on Aug 29, 2006 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, god
how did I forget the Rog when I was compiling a list of assholes in the majors?

Throwing at your pregnant wife's head when she "shows you up" gets a total lifetime achievement award in and of itself.

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
he just seems like an arrogant sonuvagun but the thing that clinched it to me was the post game interview he did game 6 of the nlcs last season.

i was already a little sour and when they asked berkman about how he felt about playing in the last ever game at busch, he said he could care less. like i said, i was already sour, and i didn't need that kinda crap right then. jerk.

aka "the Rev"

by erik on Aug 29, 2006 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

erik --- you'll be great
especially if you keep using those lowercase letters . . . .

:]

do you think pujols needs to win one of the triple crown categories outright to get this award? he's not gonna catch howard in homers, but he's stil capable of winning either the batting or rbi title.

to the extent voters overemphasize the trip-crown stats, it would seem to hurt both pujols and beltran and favor howard. on that basis, pujols trumps beltran --- even in hr / rbi (actually ahead of him, once you adjust for playing time lost to injury) and 50 points better in batting avg. but howard trumps 'em both --- league leader in two of the three categories.

by lboros on Aug 29, 2006 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If howard wasn't so far down in AVG
I betcha that it would give Howard a big leg up on the competition.  As it is, I would think that it still has to be even.

I also wonder if the voters are going to try to use Beltran's speed as a justification for voting for him, though I guess he really hasn't stolen as many bases this year as he is normally accustomed to.  

Unless someone goes on a major tear, I have a feeling that the voting is going to be very close...

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am guessing
That Albert will win the award, because:
  1. He won it last year, which automatically gives him plenty of folks that are watching him intently.
  2. Beltran will not be playing quite as much as Albert in September, with the NL East firmly in hand, it's time to rest some guys for October. Since the Reds are licking at our heels, Albert will play almost every game.
  3. Beltran's team is better. Without Carlos, I think the Mets still win the East, without Albert we'd be lucky to be chasing the Cubs.
  4. I think that most voters will take into account Albert's injury earlier in the year, and though they probably shouldn't, will give him the "Can you imagine what he'd have done without that?" vote.
  5. And finally, Albert doesn't use a glove the size of hot-air balloon.

by fuegophil on Aug 29, 2006 9:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, but . . .
The reason I am nervous about Pujols' chances is that he is going against two people who are media favorites: Beltran and Howard.  

Howard, like someone already pointed out, is this year's equivalent of Andruw Jones: eye-popping HR and RBI totals.  Beltran plays in NY, and it seems that the attention NY players get on ESPN could sway votes.  Don't believe me?  At the all star break, ESPN was ready to give David Wright the MVP because of his bat, and his defense which one commentator noted "could be the best defensive third baseman in the league."

While there is no question in my mind that Pujols is the MVP, there are lots of people who take Kruk's mentality: the MVP should be the best player on the best team.  (which I think is bullshit, by the way)  In the NL, that means the best player on the Mets, which would be Beltran.

I could also talk myself into believing the theory that denied a Cardinal the MVP in 2004: they will take each other's votes away.  That means Reyes and Wright could take votes away from Beltran, leaving Pujols wide open for the trophy.

What does everyone think?

by Ray Lankford on Aug 29, 2006 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you really think that Howard is more of a media
darling than Albert?  I don't.  Howard is more quiet and less flashy than Pujols, and hasn't been around as long as him, either.  That homerun in game 5 last year really did seem a bit like a coming out party for Pujols, and now, everytime I see a montage of awesome MLBers, I see a montage of Ortiz, Jeter, Ramirez, A-Rod, Pujols and maybe Clemens and Pedro.  I don't see the media throwing Howard out into that mix every single time just yet.

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All Excellent points..but?
The East Coast bias will raise it's ugly head I think and Beltran will win... he's had an amazing year, no doubt, but Pujols's has been better for sure....but I think we will see them give it to the New York player ....

by Timbo02 on Aug 29, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Given American baseball media,
does the season's earlier cloud of suspicion raised around albert regarding grimsley's testimony have some impact on voting?

by sdesserman on Aug 29, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt it
Since it came from Deadspin rather than from inside media circles.

by whopperman on Aug 29, 2006 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols and WPA
Pujols by month:
  • April  +3.137 (unbelievably good)
  • May  +1.717
  • June  -0.278
  • July  +2.073
  • August  +0.283
On July 16th, he was standing at +6.537. Since then he's only totalled +0.395, bested by six players on the squad (Bennett, Duncan, Carpenter, Suppan, Flores, Looper). [Note: for combined value - pitching & hitting - Suppan is the best player since then, at +0.916.]

by Solanus on Aug 29, 2006 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

NL Cy Young Race - WPA
Here are the leading contenders for the NL Cy Young Award, as seen by WPA:
  • Chris Carpenter  +3.65
  • Brandon Webb  +3.36
  • Jason Schmidt  +3.25
  • Roy Oswalt  +3.05
  • Trevor Hoffman  +2.86
  • Billy Wagner  +2.85
  • John Smoltz  +2.80
  • Takashi Saito  +2.77
  • Carlos Zambrano  +2.70
  • Mike Gonzalez  +2.47

by Solanus on Aug 29, 2006 10:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Any reason why....
Carpenter shouldn't be looked at for MVP as well? Honestly his value to this club may be equal to or slightly out weigh that of Pujols. Not to take anything away from Albert, but with the lack of effective pitching, I think Carpenter's numbers are that much more impressive. He has stopped the bleeding on numerous occasions. Albert can only do so much, i.e the game in NY (2hr 7rbi). Pitching is what makes or usually breaks this team. Just a thought.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Aug 29, 2006 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Berkman a jerk?
Wow, I was suprised to read that because I was going to nominate for just the opposite, a quiet guy who goes about doing his job and does it well.  It seems that Berkman always gets lost in the shuffle.  

by Brock20 on Aug 29, 2006 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd take him
on the Cards in a second, for both attitude and production...be he does look funny when he runs.

by Toddius396 on Aug 29, 2006 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Berkman is a class act...
if anything Pujols is a jerk. Lost alittle respect for him after the whole Jersey off the back thing on Saturday after the game. The rest of the players personally came out to hand the winners the jersey and autograph it. Pujols on the other hand, was too good for that, and sent a trainer out to hand the person his jersey.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 29, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Albert a jerk?
Are you serious? I've seen nothing but the opposite. Have you heard anything from his teammates or coaches that suggest he is a jerk? His hands on work with disabled kids makes me think that he is the furthest thing from a jerk..... seriously.

by fuegophil on Aug 29, 2006 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the jerk store called...
Albert's a moody guy, plain and simple. I think he feels overwhelmed by the amount of attention he gets, and it freaks him out. That's my take on things.

I'd love to have Lance Berkman on the Cards. He seems like a good guy stuck on a crappy team.

by matt reeder on Aug 29, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always thought that it would be funny
to have Berkman and Dunn as teammates--I would bet that those two guys would get along

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn is hilarious
If you can find the clip of him calling the Bananaphone (It's apparently what Reds broadcasters do during rain delays, taking calls from fans and what not). He called it up, not saying who he is and started saying that Scott Hatteberg is overrated and stuff. I never laughed so hard.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 29, 2006 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a jerk
but it seems he is becoming more jaded as his career has gone on. I do not think he is a jerk, but like I said, I have lost some respect for him after what he did Saturday. I'm really hoping to find out that he had a good reason for not coming out and giving the person his jersey himself.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 29, 2006 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares?
  1. Doing nice things for some people doesn't mean you can't be a jerk to other people, sometimes.
  2. As long as it's not criminal or morally reprehensible, his off-the-field conduct is completely irrelevant to me.

by blove121 on Aug 29, 2006 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way......
can a guy who does so much charity work be considered a jerk. Pujols is a class act who just doesn't like to be the center of attention. And going back to the conversation of biggest jerk in baseball, that title belongs to Barry Bonds. By far the biggest ass in baseball.

by cards19 on Aug 29, 2006 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who will get called up?
I haven't heard any discussion on who will get called up when the rosters expand.  I'd like to hear everybody's opinion.  
"The good Lord was good to me. He gave me a strong body, a good right arm, and a weak mind." -Dizzy Dean

by vince eating tarp on Aug 29, 2006 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

TLR has been weird about this stuff in the past
He seems not to like messing with the chemistry of the team, or with the playing time of the regulars, or something.

I think we'll see J-Rod back up on 9/1.  Not sure if there are other position players worth having around; maybe Schumaker and Bigbie.  Hopefully no one is tempted to call up Bo Hart for old times sake.

As far as pitchers, I think we'll see Thompson and Reyes right away, and perhaps Kinney and Falkenborg relatively soon.  I'd love to see Narveson get a real shot at the second LOOGY role down the stretch -- how can he not do better than Johnson?

My understanding is that the ratio of pitchers:position players on the roster as of September 1 has to be replicated for each round of the playoffs, so it will be interesting to see if we carry 12 pitchers as of that date.

by tdawg on Aug 29, 2006 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Skip
will be available September 5 or 6.

TLR said Reyes will start in Memphis on Friday and then come up.

I think J-Rod, Thompson, and Kinney will be brought up, probably Schumaker too.  But I'm not sure how much else the Redbirds have that could help in St. Louis (since Spivey is hurt).

by whopperman on Aug 29, 2006 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine
they'd bring up more than a couple. They have to pay these kids, you know.

by 26thMan on Aug 29, 2006 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Catcher
They said that they will bring up a third catcher. Most likely to be Micheal Hernandez. Probably will see Tompson, Kinney, Reyes, and maybe Falkernborg. Infield possibly Brenden Ryan, john Nelson, or even Bo Hart. Outfield John Rod, Skip, and possibly Amury Marti. Remember They called up Chris Duncun last year and that was a surprise and this years could be Marti.

by cards19 on Aug 29, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols for MVP
At a basic, nonstatistical level, I think the the case for Pujols is that he would improve any team he joined, and no one would seriously consider trading him away straight up for any of the other candidates. The only argument on that issue might be Howard, whose potential is great, and who is leading two high visiblity categories; but Albert fields better, runs the bases better, and consistently has a much higher batting average.  

On the statistical front, Albert's WPA and other stats confirm the commonsense judgment.  This isn't even a hard choice, unless Albert and the Cards completely tank in September.

by madridbend on Aug 29, 2006 11:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

howard is having a great season
and he's a legit candidate. but i have a couple of problems w calling him mvp --- viz., he may not even be the mvp of his own team. howard only ranks 2d on the phillies in VORP (chase utley is 1st), and he's just 3d in win shares. those stats aren't the be-all and end-all ---- no stat is --- but they do undermine his candidacy imho. i think howard this year is somewhat akin to andruw jones last year ---- attention-getting numbers in hr and rbi, but not a great all-around game. if he ends up in the high 50s in homers, and the phillies win the wild card, i wouldn't bet against him.

by lboros on Aug 29, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Howards Potential
not sure if you implied his future potential, but he is already 27 and is actually older than Albert

I'm not denying that he still has potential, but he is older than what a lot of people think.

by Just Rope Ball on Aug 29, 2006 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorrry,
he turns 27 November 19th

Albert is 27 on January 16th.

by Just Rope Ball on Aug 29, 2006 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Howard's potential
I wasn't referring to a slight age difference in one direction or another, because age is a tricky issue. Howard seems to be a couple of months older, but there is some uncertainty about Dominican birth dates. My main point is that no one would trade Pujols for Howard, unless you see unrealized potential in Howard.

Deciding whether to trade might take into account that Howard has played only 234 games - Pujols over 900 - and more experience could allow some defensive and baserunning improvement for Howard as it did for Pujols (e. g., I remember Albert seeming very slow on the basepaths at first, more effective and confident later).

by madridbend on Aug 29, 2006 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's gotta be Bert
Albert has got to win this years MVP award.  If the numbers don't drastically change from now until the end of the year, which they shouldn't, Pujols is definitely the front runner.  If the Phillies miss the playoffs, Ryan Howard is out.  If the Marlins don't sneak the wild card, Cabrera is out.  Berkman's numbers are a joke.  All he has to do batting lefty is poke the ball in the opposite field for a homerun which instantly gives him another rbi and a run scored, not to mention average on a ball that would have been caught anywhere else.  The same goes for Ryan Howard playing in hitter-friendly Philly.

To me, it's a 2-horse race between El Hombre and Beltran.  Both teams will win their respective divisions and both play gold glove calibur defense.  Both can run the bases well although one must give the stolen bases by Beltran a little attention.

It's Bert though.  Look at his numbers.  He's the best hitter in baseball and its his title.  

At least we're not in 2005 and people are talking about giving the MVP to Andruw Jones with an average under .250

by Bird Watcher on Aug 29, 2006 12:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I keep waiting for the announcement...
that Mulder has stubbed his toe or something and Sosa will be making the emergency start... Can anyone remember a more obviously bad decision on the part of a Cardinal's skipper than throwing Mulder out there during a pennant race?

Now I know how Cubs fans feel watching Neifi Perez hit at the top of the lineup a few hundred times every year...

by guayzimi on Aug 29, 2006 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great article...
It really points out all of the things that have led us to our current position in a timelined kind of way. Thanks for the link.

by bsutherland on Aug 29, 2006 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he understands

Most of the article was interesting but then he ended with this quote

If they can win a round or two in October, the flopping around of the last three months won't seem terribly important.
I don't think he understands that as fans we aren't going to be satisfied with just making the playoffs.

We've done that a number of times in the past 10 years and that's not what we want. We want a WS win and a team that has respectable fundamentals and fun playing the game.

Obviously a losing team isn't going to be having much fun but I'd rather have a team like the Marlins with a bunch of young guys giving it all they've got than a bunch of old haggard vets trying to squeak into the playoffs only to lose in teh first round.

by dontEATnachos on Aug 29, 2006 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes
just making the playoffs won't cut it. just getting to the NLCS won't cut it. getting to the world series? that might go a long way toward redeeming the season --- but if the cards were to get there, only to be embarrassed again, i don't know how impressed i would be

by lboros on Aug 29, 2006 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if by "embarrassed"...
you mean, "swept like a dust bunny into a Dyson vacuum"... then I agree. I wouldn't be totally devestated if they lost the WS - as long as they put up a decent fight & actually showed up this time.

by ArachNerd on Aug 29, 2006 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

same here
all you can ask is that a team put on a good show. if they were to get there and lose in 6 or 7 games, i'd be damn proud of them.

by lboros on Aug 29, 2006 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as well as
stunned and amazed.

by sdesserman on Aug 29, 2006 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also
stupified. struck mute. bumfuzzled. monkey's uncled.

by lboros on Aug 29, 2006 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A couple of minor quibbles
An overall nice article, but I did notice a couple of foofaws:

Rogers mentions "an embarrassing sweep at the hands of the Kansas City Royals." Wrong. We lost two of three in K.C.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I no longer associate the St. Louis Cardinals with Aneheuser-Busch. When he says "That's when the handling of the Clydesdale's wagon got a little squirrelly," apparently he does. Or does he not know that A-B sold the team a decade ago?

Check your facts, Phil.

by 26thMan on Aug 29, 2006 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
If you remember Bluto's rant in Animal House.

Don't stop him - he's on a roll.

by madridbend on Aug 29, 2006 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or Jerome Brown's classic rant
When he said..." Did the Japanese sit down and have dinner with Pearl Harbor before they bombed her?"...

by Timbo02 on Aug 29, 2006 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was 2 of 3 at Busch
The Cards swept at Kauffman.

by whopperman on Aug 29, 2006 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al Reyes?
He's pitching in minor leagues.  How did tampa bay get our best reliever from last year?

by Schnake on Aug 29, 2006 2:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Free agency...
it happens... They didn't work hard to bring him back b/c they felt he wasn't going to be able to come back this year.

by guayzimi on Aug 29, 2006 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a real bummer for him
The only other postseason apperance for him was 2004 where, according to bbref, he threw just 1.3 innings in the WS (and none in the NLDS or NLCS?? doesn't seem right...).  And he blows out his arm in the 162nd game of the schedule.  

He was set to get the biggest payday of his career.

I sure do miss that guy.  He was fearless.

youneverknow

by meat on Aug 29, 2006 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention
that if we had him, Adam Wainwright would almost certainly be in the rotation by now

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

one more thing.
steve phillips is an idiot.  He said in one sentence "pitching will get teams into the playoffs." He then said refused to say the reds would win the Central.

Steve....The reds pitchers suck too.

by Schnake on Aug 29, 2006 2:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

correction
He refused to back off the CLAIM "the reds will win the central."

Steve is still an idiot.  no correction needed there.

by Schnake on Aug 29, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols
Pujols is the logical candidate. Unfortunately logics and New York get along like church and sodomy. People have such a hard-on for the Mets being a decent baseball team that you know will carry on into the voting. Pujols is the team, while Beltran isn't even the best player on most nights. Now if it were a contract year however....
"Seeing a great catch is like watching girls walk by, the last one you see is always the prettiest." Bob Gibson

by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 29, 2006 3:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

From espn.. Any comments
On the possibility of going after David wells..

"Among the contending teams that make sense as possible suitors for Wells would include the Mets, Twins, Diamondbacks, Padres, Dodgers, Phillies, Cardinals, A's and the Reds."

by toris34 on Aug 29, 2006 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jeez...
wouldn't it be easier to list the teams NOT interested in him..

by Timbo02 on Aug 29, 2006 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

El Gordo
He looks like an unmade bed in his uniform. He looks like a giant penis with a goatee. He is a jerk of a person. I would hate to see him take an AB. He would be a GREAT pickup. A lefthanded strikeout guy....wow, like when we picked up Finley in 2002..
"Seeing a great catch is like watching girls walk by, the last one you see is always the prettiest." Bob Gibson

by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 29, 2006 3:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Steve Phillips is a Robot!
Watch him when he's delivering his "expert" commentary. He always stares straight into the camera, rocks his head up and down and punctuates every syllable with double chops of his hands in front of him. Usually ESPN throws a text box on the bottom of the screen when he's talking...methinks to hide those hands! I defy you to find an example to prove any of this wrong, and to not be annoyed by this!

by Big Rev on Aug 29, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant post lboros...
...it really puts into perspective how good Pujols has been for the season as a whole.  Last week, following the first Mets game, Pujols had pulled himself to within striking distance of Howard in HRs and RBIS, seemingly he was 5 or 6 homeruns back and 7 RBIs (if memory serves).  I really thought that at following that game, Pujols was going to catch fire and put this whole debate to rest.  Unfortunately, he ran into his nemesis this season, the Cubs, and cooled off a bit.

Hopefully, we can get a week out of him with maybe 11 RBIs, 4 or 5 homeruns and let the trophy engravers get to work early.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 29, 2006 4:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if only the oblique strain had never happened
what a season that coulda been
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Aug 29, 2006 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

d. wells
Any body just hear that the BoSox are trying to trade Wells?......interesting?

by eglasier on Aug 29, 2006 4:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

meh
The Red Sox have been having almost as many rotation problems as we have--if they're dumping Wells, we probably don't want him.  Not to mention that he seems the most anti-St. Louis player I could think of.

Though it would be funny that we would have had signed the two most alcoholic players in MLB for the same season.

by Valatan on Aug 29, 2006 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops
sorry, didn't see the previous posts

by eglasier on Aug 29, 2006 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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