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Game 124 postgame piss n moan thread

izzy, izzy, izzy . . . . .

and down at memphis, anthony reyes threw six shutout innings --- 5 singles, 2 walks, 9 strikeouts. go-fo ratio of 2-7.

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I'm over it...
It's weird. This has become so commonplace now, that it takes less and less time for me to get over these devastating losses. Honestly, I expect it to happen, and it's a pleasant surprise if it doesn't.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 22, 2006 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

while you were gone
we had a big discussion over izzy
all i can say is he leads the league in blown saves.....

i still say if we started a team from zero he would be about my tenth choice as a closer
i put the list of the nine i would take before him in the chat

he has no shut down pitch anymore
looper looked way better tonight

sad sad game to lose, wasting 7 rbis by albert
he looked more disappointed than i have ever seen him walking off that field

is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Aug 22, 2006 10:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the positives
I'll try something different for once and dwell on the positives...

It was nice to see that Albert can turn the switch anytime he needs to, hopefully his recent swell in k's is an aberation.

It was great to see Duncan play great defense in left field.  He's giving mgm't more and more reasons to make him an everyday starter, or perhaps less not to.  Belliard had a good play to rob Reyes of a hit.

Except for some small spots, the bullpen looked good.

Miles still looking like a suitable temporary replacement for David.

Just take this one as it was: a close one between two pretty good teams full of players that love to compete.

by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 22, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm really not all that bent out of shape...
..from this loss.  Sure, Albert hid the Cardinals 'weaknesses' as he was doing in earlier in the season...however, those 5 baserunners he knocked in didn't miracle their way onto base.

If you are looking for someone to blame, blame Oquendo (just for a change of pace ;P)  We'd have score 8 runs if he hadn't sent Belliard.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 22, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did anybody see Izzy...
...hold up his glove and wait for a ball to be thrown to him after...the game ending home run?  Seriously, watch closely on any replay you see.

Hellllloooooo.  The game is over.  You just lost it, brah.  

Was he lookin' for a souvenir?  What the hell was that?

   

youneverknow

by meat on Aug 22, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As to the discussion re: the new closer
how about Reyes?  His 4-seamer won't be nearly as objectionable to DD in the 'pen,and they clearly don't trust him in the rotation--perhaps this'd kill two birds with one stone?

by Valatan on Aug 22, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That wouldn't be a bad idea...
but I think they want him to learn how to pitch in a way that allows him to get past the 5th inning as a starter, which seems reasonable given his importance in the future.

by guayzimi on Aug 22, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for most teams,
this is a crushing loss.  for the 2006 cardinals, it's tuesday.

by sjoshi on Aug 22, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

see below
lo...(sob,sob)...(more sobs)...l
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 22, 2006 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closer
Would rather train Wainwright to be our closer than Reyes.

by lopey986 on Aug 22, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I know you know the numbers
but in my frustration I will once again point out..... 30 Saves, 9 Blown Saves.... 3 Blown for every 10 saved.... That is right at 23% of the time, damn near 1 out of every 4 he comes into with the chance.  And that does not count ones he blew and gave up the tie.  We have dwindled to a 1 game lead in the Central and I fully expect that will be gone by the end of this Mets series. TLR needs badly to make a statement like they did with Lidge in Houston. Same with Turnbow in Milwaukee.  Izzy is done.  At least for a while. Let's face it.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 22, 2006 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He won't
a few weeks ago i said we have the two worst pitchers in the league - one is leading it in wins and the other is leading it in saves.  and some people jumped all over me!  whatever - that guy is so demoralizing to the club.  This is one step closer to the Yankees for Albert.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 22, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its going to be bad
We are going to get completly rocked tommorow. Mulder is going to just be destroyed than we all know how Marquis pitches after a bad loss.

This could really be the begining of the end.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 22, 2006 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way dude......
those teams that Memphis and Quad Cities face are way tougher than this Mets lineup.  Piece of cake.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 22, 2006 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

11 blown saves...
if you count the home games he's blown the lead only to have Albert save his butt in the bottom of the 9th and the games he's given up the go-ahead run after coming in with the tie...

I agree.  Sit him, switch his role with Wainwright for awhile.  Lidge only had 5 blown saves this year before garner sent his message.

That being said, I'd be sitting him more for the other 10 games than this one.  Its not like he gave up a home run to a bad player.

by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 22, 2006 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction
...that would be 9 blown saves and three outright losses for 12 bad late-inning apperances.

by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 22, 2006 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closer by Committee?
What about Sosa?  Give him a shot...live arm, can strike guys out, seems to give a crap when he is pitching.  What I can't stand is defending Izzy based on the fact that he has been effective in previous years.  That is not doing us a damned thing right now.  

9 blown saves!  Are you kidding me?  Even Rivera will blow 3, 4 saves but 9!  Izzy is the difference between our 1 game lead and a very possible 6-7 game lead if we had an effective and relaible closer.

I am all for the dreaded closer by committee approach at this point.

by pitchout487 on Aug 22, 2006 11:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That Pitch
Izzy has no control. Did you guys see where Molina set up? Inside and low. The ball was High and Outside. He has nothing left.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 22, 2006 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looked like it was right down the middle to me.
Either way, it was a horrible pitch and you're right he didn't come close to Molina.

by jdubya on Aug 22, 2006 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes you wonder...
how long Tony will stick with Izzy if he keeps blowing saves. Tony can be stubborn. I think he will sink or swim with Izzy. He will want to show everyone he is right and also give the dreaded "vote of confidence" to Izzy.

I agree, I'm all for a closer by committee. Sosa, Wainwright, Looper. Whatever.

by jdubya on Aug 22, 2006 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tonight's various game 124 threads
have garnered something like 500 comments.  If you go to the Blue Jay's equivalent of VEB (Bluebird Banter) you'll see they have about 15 comments over 15 games...and nothing about that fight last night.  Still good to be a Cardinal fan!  F it.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 22, 2006 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Izzy
Check out what one blogger had to say on www.cardsfanschicago.com pretty funny stuff about Izzy.

by joemoney on Aug 22, 2006 11:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I Was at the Game
...like I mentioned earlier today, and...well...Damn it, Izzy.

Weaver's body language--I watched him really carefully, because I truly was curious.  He's a complete schizophrenic.  Half the time charging off the mound like "gimme the ball, gimme the ball," the other half all slumped shoulders and trudging off the field.  When he broke his bat during his second AB, he turned and tossed it like a spoiled child.  He needed to pick Duncan up after the drop of Reyes' pop, and he didn't.  After the good will engendered by his last start, this was one he needed to cement that confidence.  He blew it.  Both HR pitches to Delgado were tee-jobs.  Horrid.

I don't think So had a shot at LoDuca's single; I had a pretty good angle on it, and if he dove it ~might~ have been close.  But it also might have zipped by him.  I'm 80% sure his play on it--pulling up--was the right one.

Albert is a monster.  No outfielders budged on either blast.  (And I can say I was at the game where he hit 2 taters, drove in seven...and it didn't matter).  Scotty looked lost and overmatched by each Mets' pitcher, especially Maine (who lost it spectacularly once my girlfriend looked at this scoreboard picture, and said "he's hot."  I thought she successfully jinxed him and them.  No such luck).

Flores did a great job through the heart of the order.  Looper did great, too.  Came in (his reception was violently nasty) and threw strikes.

When Beltran came up in the 9th, the stadium was not as rockin' as I'd imagined it would be.  But the moment the ball left the bat, it was like an earthquake, and in the parking lot, it kept going.

Most of the fans I encountered (I wore my Birds on a Bat hat) were cool.  On the way up to the subway, there were a couple of doinks taunting an older (at least 70) Cards' fan.  Idjits.

Gut check tomorrow.  For me, I'm glad I went, but...man, I'd like a do-over...

by glennrwordman on Aug 22, 2006 11:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks for the report
wordman ---- excellent stuff. the post, i mean --- not the result of the game.

i'm sorry your 1st in-person look at the cards ended that way

by lboros on Aug 22, 2006 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great game to see...
bad result for the Cards.

I went to a Mets/Cards game last year at Shea. The fans were cool. I got some grief from a couple of teen-agers in front of us but it was good natured.

Not much of a ballpark is it? How many planes flew overhead? I saw quite a few and they were LOUD. Sounded like they were flying right over my head.

by jdubya on Aug 22, 2006 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reyes
Was throwing GAS tonight.  They either fixed the radar gun in Memphis or he was working his 4-seamer 94 to 97 all night.  He was throwing mostly fastballs, more 4's than 2's.  Change was devastating when he used it, curve was ok too.

Derek Wathan was removed from the game after the bottom of the first inning -- I'm assuming they told him he's got a plane ticket for New York first thing in the morning, because he wasn't obviously hurt.

by whopperman on Aug 22, 2006 11:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Was wondering why Wathan left.
Not injured, eh? You'd think Nelson would be first up.

by liam on Aug 22, 2006 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...
Nelson's not a MLB player.

He hits a few homers, sure, but he's hitting under .220 in one of the best hitter's leagues there is.  Doesn't walk nearly enough to offset that either.

Forgot to mention, Reyes was more wild than usual tonight.  I think, like jdubya said, Reyes was pissed and was trying to throw too hard.

It was much more convenient to blame my dad for it though, since he pointed out that Reyes has 8 walks before the game.  :)  (Not that I didn't already know)

by whopperman on Aug 23, 2006 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting...
Great report whopperman! Looks like Reyes was mad and throwing heat. I say DFA Weaver and bring up Reyes tomorrow. Won't happen. Reyes has to "work on the 2-seamer".

Interesting. I was wondering if they would bring someone up from AAA. Wathan, career minor leaguer might be getting his first taste of the bigs.

by jdubya on Aug 22, 2006 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
Derek Wathan, huh?

He would give us three sons of major leaguers on the team.  Is that good luck?

youneverknow

by meat on Aug 22, 2006 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Albert
Albert has to be pissed at IZZY for blowing it. Weaver too. He goes off for the first time this month, and our pitching once again let us down.

Face it everyone. The 2006 Cards are a .500 club. No better. We simply do not have the pitching to win ANYTHING. If we can not hold a 7-1 lead, when the greatest player of all time gives you all 7 runs. Then we DO NOT DESERVE TO WIN ANYTHING.

Yes, they had plenty of chances to add runs in the middle innings. But still, Weaver gives back 4 runs. And IZZY blows another one with a walk off.

What has everyone mad is all the back and forth, up and down bullcrap. They play well for a series, then bend over for the next two. I wish this team had the pitching to win 8-10 games in a row, then keep winning every series in a season like we had in 04 & 05. But we dont. And honestly if our offence can't do anything more than hit into double plays from the sixth inning on, then in all honesty with our pitching, once again, we do no deserve to win anything.

What happened to Rolen? I know he and Albert when back to back over the weekend, But,am I wrong, or has his bat completly vanished since the All Star break?

Don't give up. Don't ever give up. After all, GOD is a Cardinal Fan too.

by gdm426 on Aug 22, 2006 11:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rolen
Rolen deserves no fault tonight.  On Albert's first four AB's, he struck two mighty homers and ended two innings with a K and a DP.  Scotty never batted with anyone on.

Weaver lost this one.  

by mikeoat on Aug 23, 2006 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Once again the starting pitcher kills the spirit of the team.

by deanj on Aug 23, 2006 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I missed everything but the end of Weaver's....
...meltdown inning, but weren't there 2 errors in that inning?  Didn't Weaver also have a blister on his finger?

I mean, yes, giving back 4 runs after being spotted 6 isn't good, but I don't think we should throw Weaver under the bus either.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 23, 2006 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point...
... but this has been happening all year. No matter what the offense does the starters or relievers undo it. It has to be demoralizing to know it is just a matter of time before the pitching blows the game. Bad pitching magnifies everything. Rolen made some 9th inning errors this year that were huge costly errors only because Izzy puts so many runners on and puts the team in a position to fail almost every time out.

by deanj on Aug 23, 2006 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I generally agree...but look what happened....
*MIDDLE 5TH

Bottom 5TH B:0 S:0 O:0
Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter Ricky Ledee replaces John Maine.  

Bottom 5TH B:4 S:2 O:0
Ricky Ledee walks.  

Bottom 5TH B:3 S:1 O:0
With Jose Reyes batting, passed ball by Yadier Molina, Ricky Ledee to 2nd.  

Bottom 5TH B:3 S:1 O:0
Jose Reyes reaches on fielding error by left fielder Chris Duncan.  

Bottom 5TH B:0 S:1 O:0
Paul Lo Duca singles on a line drive to right fielder Preston Wilson.    Ricky Ledee to 3rd.    Jose Reyes to 2nd.  

Bottom 5TH B:1 S:2 O:1
Carlos Beltran grounds into a force out, pitcher Jeff Weaver to catcher Yadier Molina.    Ricky Ledee out at home.    Jose Reyes to 3rd.    Paul Lo Duca to 2nd.    Carlos Beltran to 1st.  

Bottom 5TH B:3 S:1 O:1
Carlos Delgado hits a grand slam (31) to right field.   Jose Reyes scores.    Paul Lo Duca scores.    Carlos Beltran scores.  

Bottom 5TH B:2 S:3 O:2
David Wright strikes out swinging.  

Bottom 5TH B:2 S:3 O:3
Michael Tucker strikes out swinging.  
*

Yadi shouldn't have lost that ball, keeping Ledee at 1st.  Next batter should be out on the fly out.  Lo Duca singles.  Runners at 1st and 2nd.  Beltran grounds back to the pitcher which was possibly a DP, but probably just 1.  So, now 2 outs, runner at 2nd and 3rd.  

Delgado probably still hits a HR, take 3 runs there. Maybe he gets walked with the open base and we face Wright (who subsequently struck out).

It was a snowball effect that really I don't know how much was Weaver's fault (as opposed to Izzy's Chicago/Rolen errors problem).  Sure, Weaver needs to nut up and get outs.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 23, 2006 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's having a great August
315/406/704 Only 10 RBI but he's swinging well. The problem is pitching. It's actually amazing to me that we are over .500. This team has been nothing short of awful for the majority of the season and 90% of the blame has to go on the pitching staff. This staff has demoralized the team all year. Tonight may be the last straw. I fully expect a sweep in this series and for the Reds to be in first by the end of the week. I don't think it will last because the Reds have a tough road trip coming up. Either way doesn't matter because this division become more inconsequential every day.

by deanj on Aug 23, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scotty
Well there goes my theory. I guess what I ment was Scotty has not had any meaningful hits in a while. At least it seams like that to me. I very well could be wrong.

Also its all on our pitching. If you cant pitch, you cant win. The only way we are above .500 is our first two months were really really good. Ever since then we are something like 10 games under.

I said a couple weeks ago that this team had lost their heart and will and desire to win. And I dont think thats the case. What is the case is we are out gunned big time. Only one good starter. Only two good relivers. And Albert & Scotty & Duncan. Baby Dunc cant keep this up can he? So I am not ready to give up this devision yet. But the Reds do seam to have more ammo right now than we do. And sadly, they just might take this division from us.

Don't give up. Don't ever give up. After all, GOD is a Cardinal Fan too.

by gdm426 on Aug 23, 2006 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't he single handedly beat the Reds
the other day with a HR and then a walk-off single?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 23, 2006 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i've noticed
that when izzy gives up a homer, it's always wayyyyyy out of the park.  when people are teeing off like that, it's not a good sign.

by jdub176 on Aug 22, 2006 11:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

BBTN crew did 'Who you got'
Mets/Cards

Hitting: Mets
Both said it's not even close

Fielding: Split, Kruk took the Mets with Beltran in CF.  Olney said the Cardinals have great defense with Rolen, Pujols, Molina, Eckstein and even Edmonds not being as good as usual.

This one is the kicker:
Kruk: The Cardinals.  They have a deeper rotation.  Sure, the back end of their bullpen is shaky, but with Carpenter, Mulder, Marquis, Suppan and Weaver, the Cardinals have a better rotation.

At this point, I have to wonder if Olney could control his laughter, but he did:
Olney: I'm going to take the Mets.  They've got Glavine and Pedro and their bullpen is stronger.  Their pitchers are a whole half run better than the Cardinals and they've got Wagner at the backend of the pen who is clearly stronger.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 23, 2006 12:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kruk is hilarious.
I like Kruk but he does makes some bizzare comments. Our starting staff is the worst that I can remember, which is back to the 1970's. I know it was bad for stretches in the 90's. But statistically, when have the Cards had a worse starting staff in the last 30 years?

by deanj on Aug 23, 2006 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They've got Glavin and Pedro?
Well, right now they don't.  heh.

by sdrone on Aug 23, 2006 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why I'm not worried
I think we have to take the positives from this game, and there are a few:

-King Albert is back. Yeah, he's been hitting well lately average wise. But finally we saw his power triggered, and against a pitcher who's been having a strong season.

-Chris Duncan survived not only the NL player of the week honors, but a day off and kept up his strong play with a diving catch, and 2 walks and a double. Only got out once. If he keeps getting on, and Albert keeps up his power, that's big news.

We need to realize that while our pitching isn't improving, it isn't getting worse. Our hitting on the other hand is getting a lot better. Finally they're playing like they're alive. Finally there's some pop in our bat.

Remember - We're playing the best team in the league right now. And we were oh so close to put a stomping on them. Even if we do struggle this series, if our hitting keeps up, we're gonna rack up a lot of wins against the rest of the league. And if we rack up runs, maybe the pitching will gain confidence, and if the pitching gains confidence, maybe, oh just maybe, we'll see some ERAs under 5? Can we dream?

by aet15 on Aug 23, 2006 12:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I blame Belliard
Made an error in the field, choked (again) with a runner on first, GIDP...man this guy needs to pick it up...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 23, 2006 12:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In case you haven't seen El Hombre's gloves...
...awesome that he has 'MVP' stitched on them:

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 23, 2006 1:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good evening fans....
I missed out on the chatter during tonights game as I was with my niece's husband who was here in LA for business from STL and we were in a local pub in Santa Monica cathing the last few innings of the Cards game......oh my...
 I know there are a lot of reasons for the loss tonight... Weaver giving up two homers to DelGado ,who just owns him...lack of hitting by guys in the middle and bottom of the line-up...and of course Izzy...9th blown save to lead the majors I believe in that catagory.. but I'm just amazed that we could lose a game where Albert has SEVEN RBI's...but not ONE from anyone else..
 At the end of the Cards win on Sunday I mentioned that I was happy BUT Izzy AGAIN gave up a run...and someone responded yeah...but better get used to it , he's all we have got.. and you know?...He was right. He is all we have. Wainwright is not going to be a better closer at this point. We are stuck with Izzy and that is that. BUT..
I often wonder why ...when someone like Looper comes in and is pitching pretty well...that strike out to end the 8th was awesome, ...WHY doesn't Tony just let him continue into the 9th and IF he starts to get into trouble?..bring in Izzy then..but he NEVER does. Why can't you have him pitch longer in a game like tonights? ..Why? Would we have won if Looper had stayed out there?...I have no idea...but I can tell you this with all honesty?...when they showed Izzy warming up to come in ...my nephew and I looked at each other and both said at the same time..."He's not going to hold 'em"....and ...well...the rest is history.

by Timbo02 on Aug 23, 2006 1:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What really sucks.....
Is that ESPN will replay that walk-off 1,000,000 times because a New York team did it..... If the Cardinals did it, i wouldn't count on it getting nearly that much attention.

by TNFan32 on Aug 23, 2006 2:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ronnie Belliard.....
Looks uncomfortable in his body.  This leads me to believe that while he obviously is carrying too much weight, it appears to be enough to effect the way he plays....if he's coming back to the team next year, I hope they convince him to drop a few pounds......I don't have a particular complaint about his play at second base-it's been refreshing to have a second baseman who actually KNOWS what he's supposed to do.  A little more patience at the plate would help.....I don't know what to make of the statements in the paper about Mulder-I've already got knots in my stomach.  I don't think I'm going to watch.  If the Cardinals want to have lower payroll they are going to have to do a better job drafting/developing players.  I think TLR is not going to be the right manager for that kind of team.  When his contract is up, they should let him walk.  Buh-bye.  In the meantime, they should go to where the good young prospects are blocked...Marlins, Diamondbacks, Braves, Yankees, Devil Rays-get some rule 5 guys.  Oh, wait....we don't have anyone to trade for these guys.....we're screwed. I'm going to open the window and scream

by jillsinmo on Aug 23, 2006 5:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And one last thing..........
ESPN makes me crazy....if a game didn't involve New York, Boston or Los Angeles (Dodgers), was it really a game?  Do we even have to hear about it?  Nah, they scroll the scores across the bottom....what else ya want?  Someday we're going to have a Rockies-Twins World Series----I hope ESPN realized THEY are baseball teams....

by jillsinmo on Aug 23, 2006 5:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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