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Game 123 Open Thread: August 20, 2006

today's pinch-hit blogger is Tim Dierkes, who runs two blogs -- Roto Authority and MLB Trade Rumors -- and contributes to Hardball Times, Rotoworld, and other sites. he also publishes the annual Roto Authority Guide. many thanks to Tim, who is the last of our guest hosts; i fly home today and return to active duty tomorrow.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

When LBoros decided to give me the keys to his blog, I figured I'd write about the offseason and roster-building. It's probably my favorite part of the game (I'm a Cubs fan; we're more about hope than actually winning). Since I'm not a Cardinals supporter, I can take an objective look at the club's construction for 2007. If I had Walt Jocketty's job, here's what I would do to ensure the club's success in next season.

  • Pick up Jim Edmonds's option. To me, this is a no-brainer. The choice is to pay Edmonds $3MM to go away or give him $10MM to stay. You really just have to decide if he's worth $7MM for 2007. Well, of course he is. Even entering his age 37 season, with his defense slipping, 130 games of Edmonds is easily worth $7MM. And what's the alternative here? Gary Matthews Jr., Dave Roberts, maybe Kenny Lofton? Those guys might save you a few mil but it's not worth it. The average NL CF has a .752 OPS this year; Edmonds hasn't been that bad since 1994. (For the 2006 season, he's at .837 as of today.) No-brainer.
  • Sign David Dellucci to play left field. It's been an incredible 150-odd at-bats for Chris Duncan, but adding Dellucci for $3MM would be very reassuring. You could throw Dellucci out in center field when Edmonds inevitably goes day-to-day. Too many outfielders is a good problem; relying on Duncan seems unwise. And there needs to be less So Taguchi.
  • Sign Jason Schmidt. I know, easy for me to say. Schmidt will probably command $13-14MM annually for four or five years. The 2007 Cardinals are a "win now" team, and Chris Carpenter can't do it alone. It's not often a team has two aces, but the Cards have that chance given Carpenter's favorable contract. Walt Jocketty was close to signing A.J. Burnett last winter, so I think he likes the idea of two stud starters rather than Carpenter and some decent guys.
  • Anthony Reyes is your #3 starter. I think he can provide 180 innings of 3.70 ball. Maybe not mind-blowing, but that's about what Josh Beckett does. Guarantee the kid a rotation spot, but skip him when possible to keep his innings down. I was surprised to see that Reyes will be 25 in October -- no more fooling around in Triple A. But he needs to be babied somewhat.
  • Round out the rotation with cheap guys and/or projects. This is a Duncan/La Russa talent, even if it didn't happen this year. Buy low on Bruce Chen, Jason Johnson, Wade Miller, Mark Redman, John Thomson, Jeff Weaver, or Woody Williams. Mix and match and find a gem. Dave Duncan can see if anything can be done with Jorge Sosa while he's at it.
  • Keep Adam Wainwright in the bullpen; don't sign any relievers. We know that good bullpens are not built by spending money, and the Cards already owe Jason Isringhausen and Braden Looper $13MM next year. Groom Wainwright as Izzy's successor. This is how good closers are made, and it's a lot better than signing Bob Wickman. I'm not so sure Wainwright's success would hold up in the rotation. He never really owned Triple A as a starter, and we see what happened with Ryan Madson this year.
  • Don't worry about second base. Hector Luna would've been fine, but that ship has sailed. Regardless, it's just second base. Sure, Mark Loretta would be a nice fit. But if the Cards have an extra $4 mil lying around it should go towards starting pitching. Surf the waiver wire and find something that works without spending money at second base.
By my estimate, these moves put the payroll in the mid-90s and leave no glaring weaknesses. Mistakes to avoid: relying on Duncan to keep it up over a full season; counting on Wainwright to convert back to starting successfully; paying good money for Ron Belliard or the equivalent; messing with or trading Anthony Reyes; and/or adding Gil Meche for 3/$24MM.

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Pinch Hit Blogging
Thanks Tim for the post.  I only discovered the blogging world last off season when I was sure there was a modern way to get realtime info from the web of off season moves.  Roto world was a quick find and a favorite daily check.  after reading all of the different card bloggers, i finally reduced to veb alone which is increasingly hard to keep up with due to the number of posts rising.

Your summation for the off season is right on by my account, and we will look forward to following it when we get there.  Many thanks for all of your contributions.

For now there is baseball to be played, and game management to debate.  I will post my comments on that separately.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 20, 2006 9:28 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A Parallel Post...
I, too, used to read all the various Cards blogs along with a few other baseball blogs, but have simplified to just VEB. A great site; updated daily without fail whenever I first log on no matter if its morning, noon or night; an excellent and intelligent host and, save for the Cubs bringing out the worst Saturday, a site typically offering good baseball discussion and debate, not full of rants or comments ripping into fellow posters.

Dispite the alarm of reading the guest host was a Cubs fan, Tim offers an on-target, objective assesment. However, I admittedly pine for Mark Loretta in a Cardinal uniform playing 2B. Good job by all the guest hosts. It was enjoyable. Hopefully the founding host was refreshed by the ocean air and drinks with umbrellas in them.  

Baily

by Baily on Aug 20, 2006 9:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rookie Magic
My take on Yesterday's Event:

It seams to me that the difference maker for many playoff clubs, is the unanticipated over-achievement of one or more rookie additions to the team.  Veb posters have debated many times whether or not this can occur for the cards while under the reigns of tlr & dunc.  Regardless of one's leaning on that issue, the `06 cards do appear to have a trio of rookies that will have shared the task of getting the club to the playoffs, and could be well prepared to play significant roles once there.  The trio is of course: wainright, reyes, and duncan.  I don't think we've seen a cards team with this much rookie participation in a long time, and it is very exciting as we root for their success while holding our collective breath because we're not sure if they can routinely perform like they have to date.

Managing the rookies' playing time and appearance situations to gradually increase confidence (of the player, the coaches, and the fans) is an interesting task throughout the season.  It should also be noted that how they are introduced has a lot to do with what level of performance the club is playing at and the situation in the standings whether chasing or conserving a lead.

With those things in mind, and in view of the phenomenal august performance of Duncan, and his game performance Yesterday that included single handedly giving the club one more chance with a hr in the 8th; the managing decision in the 9th was nothing short of astonishing.  It was predictable that tlr would be crucified for this decision (at least I predicted this, but did not participate in the crucification).  A flurry of Veb posters were enjoying the discussions of ROY in the preceding innings.  After tying the game in the 8th, to then have the chance to stroke the game winner in the 9th, appeared a fortuitous situation.  Sufficient confidence had been inspired at least among these fans that having this rookie thrust in this situation at just that moment was perfect; not just for winning the game, and beating the despised cubbies, but launching dunc's candidature for ROY with a truly heroic total game performance.

Imagining all that, then seeing dunc removed from the game at that moment was the singular most shocking managing decision that I can recall tlr ever making.  The shock was then compounded by the choice of players to substitute.  Without researching the actual numbers, the replacement may well be leading the team in LOB, GIDP's, and even SO's.  Whether or not this game decision was responsible for the outcome of the game is not this issue, nor is one's general regard for the decision maker.  The original prospective outcome favorable to the club and the rookie was denied the chance.  The turning point that might have been, is instead made into a turning point all together different.  Even a successful outcome by the replacement, could never remove the shock of the decision itself.  For the club, the fans, and more importantly the player, the specter of doubt instilled by the manager can set aside weeks of brewing confidence.

What was tlr thinking, or even do I care?  That decision alone was so astonishing, the rest of the game didn't really matter (to me).  I guess in this respect I may be alone, as the game wraps on mlb or espn failed to even notice this event.  The home team web page of course would not highlight it, but even the local paper said nothing of it this morning.  I am again in shock.  I wonder if any ROY has ever been pulled in the 9th with the bases loaded.  I wonder just how many game winning hits ROY's typically have, and how many dunc has so far.  I wonder if dunc will be looking over his shoulder the next time he gets to bat with the sacks jammed, and what might happen when he does get to hit.  I wonder if the same situation of having tied the game in the 8th, and the chance to win it in the 9th will ever reproduce itself, at any time let alone against an archrival.

There; I've vented (and hopefully respectfully).  Any help on the ROY questions above are more than welcome.  

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 20, 2006 9:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Check out Bernie's column today
It's all about the Encarnacion for Duncan decision.  You're not alone.

by stlmapman on Aug 20, 2006 12:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It just bummed me
I was walking back and forth between the TV and the kitchen working on something.

I stopped in front of the TV, thinking "ROCK.  The kid is coming up!"

Encarnacion came up, I thought "sigh.  K or double play" and went to the kitchen and ignored the rest of the game.   I knew the outcome.

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2006 12:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know the other thing that worries me?
Remember that at-bat early in the season last year, game on the line in the late innings, and TLR left Molina in the game to do the at bat?  He scratched out a hit?   People said that was a season changer for Molina?

What if TLR yanking Duncan is a season changer for Duncan?

Let's hope not.

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2006 12:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was utterly excited when I thought we had bases
loaded for Duncan.  I then heard the announcers state Tony was sending up a pinch hitter and I was stunned.  Shell-shocked really.  Family members came by me and asked why Tony was doing that and I just sat there, staring at the screen saying "I don't know".  After the inning was over, I just kept muttering, "I can't believe he did that.  I can't believe he did that."

It took the wind right out of my sails.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off-season
Tim-
Great post.  I think most of the ideas you lay out are very good.  Especially the point about Gil Meche vs. Jason Schmidt.  I would add to your list (although the Schmidt signing implies it) do not attempt to resign Mark Mulder. Unless he sets the world on fire this last month and can prove that he is healthy, pass.  I would like to give Wainwright a chance in the spring to start, but like you I think he will end up in the bullpen.

SD

by sdangler on Aug 20, 2006 9:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Mulder can be resigned
for a cheap one year, incentive-laden, make good conract, I could see keeping him.  This team committed a lot to get him, and perhaps he could return the favor and bet on us.  

That being said, I'm sure he'll end up with a more expensive multi-year contract.

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 11:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure that if he pitched well in the playoffs..
...we'd give him the AJ Burnett contract we had out there.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 11:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope not
that'd be a mistake.  This offseason's going to be weird, that's for sure.

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 11:45 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks
I'm glad you folks liked the post.  Definitely agreed on Mulder, unless he takes a very cheap one-year deal and is one of those projects.

But there's gotta be some people out there who would do it differently...

by Tim Dierkes on Aug 20, 2006 10:18 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heard from a mets fan...
"glavine may have a blood clot or twisted artery in his arm.  could be done for the season."  

tha worldwide leader has a link also:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555246

by sjoshi on Aug 20, 2006 10:43 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Mets are not a juggernaut
They are definitely beatable and their weakness is in their starting rotation.  After Pedro and Glavine, they're really no better than we are.  Granted, their offense is stout but I think that we can pitch with them in the postseason, especially if Glavine is hurt.  Who are they gonna run out there -- Trachsel, El Duque?  Yuck!

by chuckb on Aug 20, 2006 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pedro is ailing too--last start: 6 ER, 1 IP
They are beatable, and we'll find out more about that in three days.  That series is going to be huge, for the division and as an idicator of the future (though with this team, there are no real indicators)

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 11:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Glavine goes down...
..there playoff rotation is:
Pedro
Traschal
El Duque
J Maine

Yeah...I think WE even have a better rotation than that.

Cardinals
Carp
Weaver
Mulder
Suppan

Reds
Arroyo
Harrang
Milton
Lohse

Dodgers
Lowe
Penny
Maddux
Hendrickson

The Dodger suddenly look like World Series contenders with that rotation.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 11:48 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

glavine
+ we stink vs. lefties and getting rid of any lefty we might face can only help us.  

by chuckb on Aug 20, 2006 11:52 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pedro
I wouldn't count on him "staying down"

by Zubin on Aug 20, 2006 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't count on it
but the guy's always been fragile, and he's just getting older.

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, the NL keeps getting weaker and weaker....
...I've said it all year: If we can GET to the playoffs, I think we can GET to the World Series.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 11:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
Jason Schmidt would be a wonderful addition. But won't there be a huge bidding war for him? As great as that sounds, it just seems like his price will end up being too high to pay.

I completely agree about Edmonds. I don't even see why Walt would consider buying out his cotract for $3 mil. Sure, he's had a rough year, but those numbers are still a lot better than what's out there. Plus, his defense is still among the best in the league, and with Enc and Dunc at his side for now, we need that.

I have to wonder about the whole Dunc/Delucci idea. I love the idea of Delucci, I think he'd be a great addition to the Cardinals, but I also love Duncan. His numbers are very similar to those of Ryan Howard in his rookie season, and look at where he is now. It seems like so often with rookies who have a horrible sophomore season, it's because they came into the league on fire an dwindled off, but in Duncan's case, he game into the league doing well, but progressively got even better, and now, more than two months into his MLB career is when he's getting hot. He just seems like a pretty solid investment to me. Maybe we sign Delucci if he'd be willing to platoon with an aging edmonds?

Just some thoughts - thanks for a great guest post

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 11:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Honestly,
I like the idea of overpaying for Schmidt--but being very careful not to put a no-trade clause in his contract.

Let him play out the year, make your drive for a WS championship, and in the 2007 offseason, trade him off to the east coast for salary prospects--the mets should be peaking around then.  Then the rebuilding phase goes a little more quickly, and it's not a financial disaster.

Risky, but it might minimize the amount of time spent in the inevitable and impending dark ages.

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 11:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree...
We'll see though. Our management is not known for it's willingness to overpay. Jason Schmidt is the best pitcher in the FA market this offseason, alot of teams will be making a push for him. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the Yankees bought him and Zito.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The beauty of doing the above
would be that $15M for one year of Schmidt would not be overpaying.  Ship him off to someone else for the other three years, and let them deal with his decline phase.  It's alywas the years that kill you in these contracts.  So long as he's signed without a no-trade, the years won't be a problem.

by Valatan on Aug 20, 2006 12:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus
If Walt would sign him to an esclating contract that averaged 15 MM per, we could have him for 10-12 MM next year.

by Just Rope Ball on Aug 20, 2006 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I agree.
I agree with you. I should've made it more clear. I meant the price would probably be too high considering how our front office has acted in the last few offseasons. They don't seem to want to overpay, and that's why as much as I'd love Schmidt, it doesn't seem likely.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 1:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we'd be in better shape for this year
if we woulda just traded some journeyman minor leaguer for delucci at the trade deadline...i think he woulda been available for that...plus signing him for next season woulda been easier

by johnstjc on Aug 20, 2006 12:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doubtful
I doubt Dellucci was truly available at that price.  Once the Phils moved Abreu, Dellucci became an everyday outfielder.

by stlmapman on Aug 20, 2006 12:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While I really wanted
Dellucci, I don't agree we'd be in better shape.  I think he's underrated and great...but we do not need another left handed batting outfielder who kills righties and can't stay in the lineup vs. lefties.

Edmonds
Duncan
JRod
Dellucci

and still marginal vs righties with JEnc/So/Wilson

by RedbirdRay on Aug 20, 2006 2:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting perspective on Wainright
and I gotta admit, I'm a bit down on Izzy right now (though I haven't been this season).

If Wainright can do it, sure.   I place a lot of value on a good closer.  

I wouldn't have asked this a month ago, but could Izzy be traded for something valuable?

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2006 12:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FA/roster moves
CF - I don't understand the logic in signing Edmonds for $10 mil as his production continues to slip rather than spending up for Hunter or roughly the same for Cameron.

Corner OF - Sorry, but I don't see the sense in picking up Delucci, whose career year has come at age 33, has only a handful more of ABs than Duncan -- and doesn't hit LHP any better -- and is no gem defensively (especially a weak arm). The Cardinals have been grooming Schumacher and Rodriguez, and I think that's the right way to go.

2B - Dropping Belliard and picking up Kennedy would save money and give the Cardinals the best defensive 2B since Herr. Actually, 2B has been an annual sore spot for the Cardinals, having not had the same one in back-to-back seasons since Vina. If Derek Wathan isn't a legitimate prospect (and he's doing pretty well at Memphis), then trade for a young one rather than continue to patch that hole. Loretta, of course, would be great -- but the price tag would be very high, even if the Sox let him go (they won't). I wonder if the Cardinals could get Alberto Callaspo from Arizona or Dustin Pedroia from the Sox.

P - I believe Wainwright could be turned into a closer, and as soon as next year -- if Izzy keeps sliding. Looper and Flores are solid set-up guys, but middle relief is a problem. I'm thinking that's where Sosa would best fit, or that Kinney may be ready for that role next season. If Buehrle gets locked up, then I'd go for Schmidt. For the 3-5 spots, Weaver and Reyes may be good enough -- then add in a FA (Johnson, Armas, Chen, Ohka and Eaton are the ones I'd target).

by MoCrash on Aug 20, 2006 12:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FA/ Roster moves
  1. The options with JEd are to (a) pay him $3M  to walk or (b) pay him $10M to stay.  The $3M is a sunk cost so the marginal cost of JEd is $7M.  You won't get Hunter or Cameron for that.
  2. Delucci is insurance.  The logic is that if CDunc cools off (as he likely will) Delucci will offer some degree of steady production
  3. Last I checked Kennedy's OPS is about the same as Mile's or Eckstein's.  Personally I'd save some cash.

by Zubin on Aug 20, 2006 1:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess I need to clarify
  1. I think Cameron will go for about $7 mil, but even if it's marginally more you pay it for a player who has several more productive years left. Hunter, as I noted, would be substantially more. The idea is to build a contending team, and hopefully one which can be that for several years.
  2. Why sign Delucci as insurance when you have guys in the minors who could be every bit as good than a a 33-year-old whose FA price is going to be substantially higher? That's a more expensive policy than necessary. And you didn't want to spend extra for an everyday CF? You skimp on corner OFs, not CF.
  3. My priority, as I mentioned, would be to find an up-and-coming 2B instead of looking around for a FA or making a trade every year. Loretta would be nice, but the Cardinals aren't going to get him. Kennedy's OPS is only near Miles' this season, when he was injured early; career-wise it's .727, which is higher than Miles' has ever been (and you get more speed, too). Defensively, there's no comparison, and I think the Cardinals would be substantially improved with more range at 2B -- especially for a team without power pitchers and has only had one LHP in the rotation over the past three years. When did middle infield defense become irrelevent? Could it be that the rise in the Cardinals' team ERA this year from last be partly attributable to the change at 2B between Grudzielanek, who had an outstanding season defensively in '05, and the Luna-Miles-Belliard triumvirate? It also may not be coincidental that the Eckstein-Kennedy keystone was good enough for the Angels to win a World Series.

by MoCrash on Aug 20, 2006 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wathan
is not a prospect, he's a journeyman.

Schumaker is ok, but he's a 5th outfielder.  Rodriguez is similar.

Edmonds, as has been mentioned, really only costs $7MM to keep...that's worth it, IMO.

by whopperman on Aug 20, 2006 11:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think
Good post Tim just want to make a couple comments. - Decline Edmonds contract and then re-sign him to a contract where it works out to $14m/2years this includes the $3 million buy out. He wants to retire a Cardinal and we need him at least 2 more years. - Schmidt is really the key to this all for me. He is the one guy that can convince me this ownership cares about this Team. - LaRussa just said today that Wainwright is still projected to be in the Rotation next year. I think he has enough pitchs to become a major league #3. - I think you guys are under valuing Delluchi big time. He is having a carreer year so far. WIth Abreu gone he is getting more time this year. This is his line this year .328/.400/.624/1.024 He is utilized correctly though. Only bats against Righties. - We need a guy that can bat against lefties to protect our OF weakness with two lefties. Just a bench guy, Taguchi HAS to go. - Sign a decent backup catcher that can't play D but can hit the ball better. I would be even happy if we traded Molina in a package for whatever. This guy just can't hit and his defense does not cover it. - We need a bench guy that can play Short stop and 2b. As bad as this sounds I am really like forward to the 2009/2010 seasons. Our lower level A squad is just simply packed with studs.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 20, 2006 12:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GRRRR I HATE YOU
Good post Tim just want to make a couple comments. - Decline Edmonds contract and then re-sign him to a contract where it works out to $14m/2years this includes the $3 million buy out. He wants to retire a Cardinal and we need him at least 2 more years.
  • Schmidt is really the key to this all for me. He is the one guy that can convince me this ownership cares about this Team.
  • LaRussa just said today that Wainwright is still projected to be in the Rotation next year. I think he has enough pitchs to become a major league #3.
  • I think you guys are under valuing Delluchi big time. He is having a carreer year so far. WIth Abreu gone he is getting more time this year. This is his line this year .328/.400/.624/1.024
He is utilized correctly though. Only bats against Righties.

 - We need a guy that can bat against lefties to protect our OF weakness with two lefties. Just a bench guy, Taguchi HAS to go.

  • Sign a decent backup catcher that can't play D but can hit the ball better. I would be even happy if we traded Molina in a package for whatever. This guy just can't hit and his defense does not cover it.
  • We need a bench guy that can play Short stop and 2b. As bad as this sounds I am really like forward to the 2009/2010 seasons. Our lower level A squad is just simply packed with studs.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 20, 2006 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 years 14 million is not going to get Edmonds...
Why would Edmonds sign for 2 years 14 million?  He's guaranteed 10 million next year.  Do you really think he couldn't go through next year at 10 million and then sign for MORE than 4 million the year after that?  I think it's more realistic to think he is after a 3 year 21 million or 2 year 16 million in my humble opinion.

There is no way we get Schmidt next year unless he has some aversion to the American League East.  The Yankees/Red Sox/ Orioles will open up the vault for him and Zito.  I believe we SHOULD try to overpay for him, but that doesn't mean we can meet any price...

"It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable". Joe Garagiola

by MRCARD on Aug 20, 2006 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In General I agree with TD
But I really doubt that the Card will or should sign Schmidt.  They have shown themselves to be hesitant in signing long term contracts of FA pitchers.

As far as 2nd base goes, I'd still like to see if Tagucci can play there.  No one would complain about his ~700 ops there.  More to the point, the Guch really needs to be a backup OF/IF if he wants to be valuable to this team.  And I think any money spent for a FA SS (and moving Eck to 2nd) would be well spent.

by Zubin on Aug 20, 2006 1:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey hey
"former cardinal" juan mateo is starting today for the cubs

by sjoshi on Aug 20, 2006 1:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mlbtraderumors
Thanks tim, i check your site every day right after veb
Cardinals Jayhawks all the way.

by birdland on Aug 20, 2006 1:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Quick Comment
Okay, about Wainwright, as much as it would be interesting to see Wainwright at the closer's role. Management seems pretty set on him joining the rotation. Because of that, I think we need to plan otherwise, because that's where he's most likely going.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 1:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Next Year
I agree to this..... next year our rotation would like:
Carpenter
??????
Wainwright
Radke??
Suppan

TLR, loves Soup, he will be back.  Wainwright will be in the rotation via Cardinals management.  I agree on Schmidty.  I want him badly.  If we get him in the offseason, next year could be absolutely the most exciting I have seen in a long time.

I like this around the horn
C - Yadier Molina
1B - King Albert
2B - Belliard (waits for the shots on this one)
3B - Scotty
SS - Eckstein
LF - Duncan
CF - Edmonds
RF - Juan

4th OF - David Dellucci

by stlcardi70 on Aug 20, 2006 2:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rotation Filler
I'd like to see the Cardinals sign Carlos Silva in the offseason. I don't expect the Twins to pick up his option after the bad year he's had and think he'd put up good numbers for the Cardinals. Argue with the Cardinals' pitching philosophy all you want, but Silva is a prototypical pitch-to-contact right-hander on a team with a porous defense.

Assuming his knee is healthy, of course.

by liam on Aug 20, 2006 3:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wainwright as closer
is an interesting idea in that I think a pre-arb kid with electric stuff is the most cost-effective solution for filling the traditional closer role.

That said, we have Izzy for at least one more year (barring a trade or injury), so the Wainwright-as-closer idea is moot.

I'd like to think that Chris Perez, drafted this spring out of Tha U, is on the relatively fast track and could set up in 2008 (if Izzy's option is picked up) then take over full time in 2009.

by 26thMan on Aug 20, 2006 1:55 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wainwright
He doesn't have electric stuff.  He's 90-92 with a hammer curve...a functional cutter/slider (at least it doesn't look like a true cutter nor slider) and a change.  That's not electric and that's not closers stuff.  You don't waste a guy that has 4 major league pitches, one of them very very good, who has good command as a guy who pitches one inning at a time.  He's much more valuable as a starter.  
A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Aug 20, 2006 2:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well put
but I wasn't necessarily advocating Wainwright, just the idea of a nasty but cheap kid as closer.

We agree that he is much more valuable as a starter than as closer. It would have been nice to see a start or 32 out of him this season.

by 26thMan on Aug 20, 2006 2:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

after "cheap kid as closer" add
a la Huston Street or Chad Cordero, hence the Chris Perez reference above.

For once, I'd like to see the Cardinals among the leaders of an emerging trend (college closers fast-tracked to the bigs) instead of straggling on the back end.

I know nothing about the Perez boy, but with the early successes of Street and Cordero, a fella can hope.

by 26thMan on Aug 20, 2006 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Guillen Responds to Cheating Comments
Guillen gets fired up over finger-pointers

By Mark Gonzales
Tribune staff reporter
Published August 20, 2006

MINNEAPOLIS -- Manager Ozzie Guillen fired back Saturday night at several targets, from those who have accused the White Sox of cheating to his own pitchers.

Guillen responded to suspicions raised by St. Louis pitching coach Dave Duncan, Detroit manager Jim Leyland and Boston owner John Henry that the White Sox had stolen signs.

"If we played National League teams, the Central Division, we might win 150 games," Guillen said.

"They think I cheat? We faced two good pitchers in the [NL]. Our division, they have to go through [Justin] Verlander, [Nate] Robertson, [Jeremy] Bonderman, [Kenny] Rogers, then you go to the White Sox and face all our guys?

"The American League Central? That's baseball right here. Go hard one after another."

Guillen said Cardinals left-hander Mark Mulder "wouldn't even make our team. He couldn't start for us, and he's not better than [Neal] Cotts or [Matt] Thornton in our bullpen.

"I hope [the suspicions] keep happening. What happened in the playoffs and World Series? We won so many one-run games, more than anyone in baseball.

"If we're cheating, how come we don't help Brian Anderson or [Juan] Uribe? If we're going to cheat, we're not just going to cheat for a few guys. We're cheating on the mound? Our pitching staff gets beat up once in a while."

As for Henry, who wondered in the Boston Globe whether the Sox were stealing signs in a game against the Yankees, "he doesn't even know what a field looks like," Guillen said.

Guillen also blamed his own pitchers for not preventing most of the 91 stolen bases against the Sox this season, including three in Friday night's loss to Minnesota.

"We really stink at holding baserunners," Guillen said. "Stink. The worst I've ever seen, and I'm not going to blame it on my catchers. I think some people just go out and forget they have people on base. They don't give A.J. [Pierzynski] an opportunity.

"I told them I'm not going to call a pitchout because I'm not a genius. That's not our run there, that's your run. Take care of that. We've got to be better than that. That's a free pass for people to score runs."

Guillen also took a mild shot at Freddy Garcia, who has been critical of his lack of run support.

"Well, when you give up five runs, it's a funny thing," Guillen said. "Players can say whatever they want to say because it's their right, but we gave the lead to Freddy a couple of times, and they tied the games a couple of times.

"Sometimes people should blame themselves when things happen."

Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune

by sgfcards on Aug 20, 2006 2:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grrr
Wouldn't it be awesome to see an NL team win the world series? I mean, don't get be wrong, I'm cheering for the Cardinals, but if they get to the playoffs and lose it would still make me VERY happy to see an NL team win it all. We've been getting a lot of crap this season (some of it deserved) but our teams are better than they're made out to be.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since when
is stealing signs considered cheating? I thought it was called "baseball."

If a team is gaffling signs, then the other team isn't doing a very good job of disguising them.

If you are gifted an advantage, you take it. Is it considered cheating to take advantage of a tipped pitch?

Regarding the Southside O.G.'s comments re the NL Central and Mark Mulder, he's dead right.

by 26thMan on Aug 20, 2006 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good god
Why didn't this kid hit yesterday.  hahahah.

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2006 2:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hee hee hee
You show'um, Dunc!  Good thing the Blue Angels weren't flying overhead today, or he'd be on a terrorist watch list.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 2:27 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha
Let's he hope he's on the Rookie of the year watch list instead.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 games
Just each game this series. He went a game without one in Cincy.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it seems like
he's got 5 multi-hit games in a row

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
He does, and all he needs is one more today to make it 6. That's ridiculous.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh no
Pujols limped around first on his single, then jogged on the 2nd steal attempt when Rolen walked.

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2006 2:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He wasn't limping
Atleast it didnt look like it to me, and the announcers made no comment about it. Albert just runs like a lumberjack.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Juan..
where was that swing yesterday?! :P
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

juanny
styled on that one for awhile.  personality...i like that.

by sjoshi on Aug 20, 2006 2:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

duncan
res ipsa loquitur.

and how about Juan? nice

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 2:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pour it on Today!!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 2:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when juan homered
I was just starting to wonder a couple things about Duncan....
  1. is Duncan a dead-pull hitter? I don't recall ever seeing him HR to left, but I could be wrong.
  2. Is it just me or does Duncan not seem like a typical 2-hitter? He seems like a 3/4/5 hole hitter....maybe #2 is the best spot for him in this lineup, and maybe hitting in front of God Himself is the reason he's seeing so much to hit.

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 2:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yesterday
he hit one to left center, didn't he?

by sjoshi on Aug 20, 2006 2:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not dead pull..
I've seen Duncan go the opposite way with plenty of pitches. Most of his homeruns are pulled or blasted to dead center, but he gets alot of singles/doubles the opposite way.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well...
  1. no, Dunc hits the ball to left and left-center. he hits more line drives to left... gappers and some slash hits. he's got a few homers to left-center, but i'm not sure he's got any to straight left.
  2. Dunc has hit well in the 6-hole and 7-hole this year as well. he's just on a tear. and i think he is a good 2-hitter: high OBP with power.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 2:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thx for answers
I don't get to watch on TV much, and GameDay or whatever just ain't the same....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Juan looked...
... pissed to me. let's hope this whole pinch-hit controversy sends him on a tear.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 2:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no kidding he did
That look reminded me of Albert's look in bat flip off Perez(?) incident.  I'm cautiously optimistic, but this series might have the makings of getting everybody back on track.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Belly
How the crap did he get thrown out on that?  He is really slow.

by OCCardsFan on Aug 20, 2006 2:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dear Mr. LaRussa,...
..in the spirit of being ever so polite and giving you all the respect to which you are due, bowing humbly on bended knee and worshiping at the alter that is your genius, if I may so trouble you being the meaningless peon that I am and recognizing that compared to your eminence I know less than nothing about the great game of baseball that you have conquered with your infinite wisdom, perchance did you notice who just hit a home run for the Cardinals? Was this the same individual that would have batted yesterday but was removed from the game by you even though he is the hottest hitter on the team? Please do not think that I am questioning your almighty wisdom and baseball acumen, nothing could be further from the truth. It's just I want to be like you and so I want to understand your managerial thought processes.Thank you, I love you and would never call you a nasty name because you are a baseball genius, just like you said you were.

An adoring fan of yours!

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 20, 2006 2:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In all fairness...
It wasn't against lefty and Juan also hit a homerun.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Personally
I'm just glad that Duncan came out hitting again, there was a little worry in me that that pinch hit move might hurt Dunc's confidence, but nope, all is well it appears.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now THAT is FUNNY!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 2:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To Tim, our guest host
Just wanted to say thanks and that I really enjoy your MLB Trade Rumors site.  Go there everyday and you always have good info.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 2:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moyer to Phillies
I'm kinda surprised the M's traded Moyer. I mean, it makes sense, but it's just gonna be strange to see Moyer in another uniform.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 2:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You Mean...
compared to the what 5 other teams Moyer has already played on in his career?

by FunkeeC on Aug 20, 2006 2:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um
He's been with Mariners for 10 years. . . he's got the longest tenure of anyone on that team . . . so yeah, the Mariners.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
your comment was that you couldnt imagine him in another uniform. I cant imagine Ripken or Gwynn in other uniforms, but a guy who has been on as many teams as Moyer, sure.

by FunkeeC on Aug 20, 2006 3:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
The thing is the only team he actually really played full seasons with were the Cubs. . . so I really have always thought of him as a Mariner, and he's been the only consistency in their rotation for the past decade. Maybe it's more of a personal thing, but it'd be like seeing Edmonds on another team. Even though he started his career with the Angels and was there for awhile, it would still be strange to see him in another uniform than the Cardinals.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't it be splendid...
If Duncan was just this good and never came down to earth (kinda like Mr. Pujols). I know it's highly unlikely, but it sure would be sweet.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why is it not likely?
hey....Chris Duncan has just as good a chance of becoming a great hitting Left Fielder as he does being a bust...and from what I've seen of him so far?...I'd go with this kid over Delucci next year without a doubt.  What I'd like to see to tell you the truth?... is the the Cardinals go after Julio Lugo in the off season to play SS. I'm sure that is a unpopular opinion, but I'd move Eck to 2nd  for the last year of his contract, and then see if one of the kids in the minors would be available to take over in 08..

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 2:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know
It is possible, and like I said, I hope he just turns out to be a stud. I just look at his AAA numbers, and you have to wonder if he can keep it up. However, you can actually see the kid getting better with every at bat. Compare him now, to when he first came up, and he is almost an entirely different player.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think some players....
Just have to get to the show to shine...and I'm really starting to believe that Mr.Duncan is perhaps one of those guys.. I think Chris could be a huge part of the Cards in years to come, and I really hope that it is a trend that continues. I love seeing the farm system produce and building a team from within....something that we haven't seen in the Cardinals in some time.

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 2:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
I agree. Some players just need the confidence of making it there and knowing they have to prove themselves.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look at
Look at Jim Thome's minor league numbers and they don't really compare to his Major league numbers at all. He never got power till he got the Majors. But Duncan has also got a great Avg so I just don't know.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bob Brenley on MLB TV said
"Chris Duncan can go ahead and give up his apartment in Memphis."
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what the darn?
I thought this game was pushed back to accomodate the Worldwide Leader's "Sunday Night Baseball"?

I stand corrected.

by 26thMan on Aug 20, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no...
... next week against the Cubs it's ESPN's Sunday night game. this week it's Yanks/Sox (of course).

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 2:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shannon just called that Ramirez fly-out
as a no-doubt homer at first. Sounds like the wind really knocked it down...?

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 20, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off the bat...
I thought it was gone. Wind definitely brought it back.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gee golly gosh
I love Carpenter's silly grin and mouthful of bubble gum.  It's a pleasure to watch him pitch for us, even if it means he has to bat.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and look!
He's moved onto the interstate with a single!

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gameday on Yahoo...
is a complete joke....they don't even have the game STARTED yet....nice work over there guys.

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 3:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm at Yahoo Sports Gamechannel,
and they have the game updated before I hear the call from Shannon and Rooney online. Do they have another service called Gameday, or is Gameday another site?

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 20, 2006 3:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No.....
I meant game Channel....sorry if that confused you.

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GameDay, GameCast, GameChannel...
Those are some clever names. Maybe somewhere there's also a DayChannel, or a ChannelCast, or maybe even a GameGame.

by BTown Birds fan on Aug 20, 2006 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gamechannel's working fine for me too
All these services have similar names, I get them confused....I use Yahoo's because there are no ads....MLB.com's is GameDay (IIRC)....I was using that yesterday (because GameChannel wasn't working) while trying to get some work done and noticed my computer was running slow....GameDay hogs CPU resources like nobody's business....I have a 2.8GHz P4 with 1G of RAM and it was still eating ~90% of my CPU....GC runs without my processor breaking a sweat, apparently.

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ouch
Horrible call at second.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no way!!
the Cubs traded Neifi to the Tigers?  Dusty must be heartbroken.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 3:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cedeno never had that
should be bases loaded dagnammit!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

carpenter is cruising
and now he gets a base hit. sweetness

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and naturally miles GIDPs
probably for the best....get him off the base paths ;)

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Way to go Carp
Base hit!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aaron Miles...
how I hate thee.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno
He played well yesterday.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a little harsh...
... I'm sure you meant to say, "Mr. Miles , that was a terribly disappointing AB, but I know that you gave it your best effort and in appreciation of that effort I want you to know how much I love you."

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 20, 2006 3:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Way to go Miles
Double play!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh yeah wtg Miles
You had two hits yesterday and one today.  Yet we still hate you.

(end sarcasm)

geez what is it with some of you people.  Not everyone is Albert Pujols.

by stltrav09 on Aug 20, 2006 3:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lighten up!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I miss Edmonds...
Oh my goodness...
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh boy...
... if Carp isn't careful, this game could get close.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 3:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was easily the worst
play in centerfield I have EVER seen.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to be on Tony again...
...however, last inning after Carp's single:

Why didn't Miles bunt him over?

It would create 1 out, runner at 2nd with Duncan, Pujols and Rolen availible to drive that run or any other runs in.

Frustrating that he can't make a simple baseball move like that, but micromanages other situations.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From watching carp
I get the feeling that Carp doesn't like running the basepaths and or isn't good at it at all. That could be why?

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good question
maybe cause Carp is a pitcher and as such probably isn't greased lightning on the basepaths....he could still get thrown out on even a halfway decent bunt....plus we're up four runs in the 4th inning....might as well let Miles try for the base hit. I dunno if that was his thinking but it sounds plausible to me.

Agreed that TLR's off-again/on-again micromanagement drives me nuts sometimes....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but on a solid bunt...
...at worst it's a fielder choice...cause no way should Miles be thrown out in the DP.  It just minimizes the chance of the DP.

I dunno, seemed like a no brainer to me.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah!
Nice play Scotty!

by stlmapman on Aug 20, 2006 3:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice play Scotty...
... also, Eddie Guardado place on the DL.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 3:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thank you
Mr. Nevin....you owed us one.

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was the DP we needed
with Nevin batting yesterday.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp
mentally tough. Yesterday Suppan just melted down in somewhat of a similiar situation, looking completely lost and unconfident. Carp just never seems to get rattled.

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 3:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL screw u all
i already apologized but i guess it wasnt enough... YEA ok......

LOL

who the fuck are u to tell me that you're a better fan than i am.... thinkin u allll that..

half of u are jokes... oooo i like 'intelligent' topics.... LOL... what tony did to duncan yesterday WAS uncalled for u bitches!!!!!

keep BANNING me....

I'll be baaaack....

sorry for the other half of the 'real' cardinal fans here... just that the other half are stuck up as a mother fucker trying to act like baseball is matter of life or death....

i'll come crusin around here and there (on different names since all my others ones keep gettin banned.... LOL) to leave my 'ranting' u fucks....

by cubHaterisBACK on Aug 20, 2006 3:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grow up.
Seriously.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dag, Yo
What's up with the LOLocaust there, Pottymouth?

by liam on Aug 20, 2006 3:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where did the Pittsburgh
team that played us go?  Reds cruising 5-1 in the bottom of the 8th.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No kidding...
come on Pirates....play some damn ball will ya?

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently Mateo has turned in Cy Young...
good thing we already got some runs off him.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow
Mateo fanned Pujols on three pitches. I know his 1st inning was rough,but he's looking pretty sharp. I know we ended up with Hancock anyway, but wouldn't mind having Mateo

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 3:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Juan got robbed....
Man, that was a great play by Izturis.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm perplexed.
AP still appears to be fishing on anything outside and low, and not even trying to go to right field on those pitches?

I've been able to see two TV games in a row here, and he doesn't look as good as usual.

Is there something I'm missing.

by Intheway on Aug 20, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's human...
I agree with you that Albert just doesn't seem to be hitting the ball with the same frequency and drive as he did in the 1st part of the season....I think you have to make sure to also take into account that the league's pitchers are learning how to pitch to him better also...but I would imagine if he is getting that elbow drained as was reported here a couple of days ago..that he is playing through some pain and hurt... but half a Albert is still better than most....

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 3:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Were Duncan or Enc's homers bombs or what?
i am just joining the action.  Thanks.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was surprised
that no mushroom cloud appeared when Dunc's homer landed.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes and No
Duncs was a mammoth shot that just missed leaving the stadium. Enc's was a no doubter, but it was a line drive not a boomer.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice. I wonder if he has a shot at ROY
if he finishes strong?
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 3:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The NL is a tough ROY to call
but Ethier (sp?) in LA has a good shot.  In the AL, my guy would have to be Weaver's little brother.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: cubhater
people like are you why we can't buy a beer at a stadium after the 7th inning.

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

people like are me???
yes i agree nonetheless....

at least i aint fake...

sorry for my pottymouth everyone  :)

lets go carp!!!!!!!!

by cubHaterisBACK on Aug 20, 2006 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When you consider the wind is
blowing in at Wrigley and they were both no doubters... then yes they were very well hit.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 HR;s brought back that inning
by the wind. Ronnie and Yadi both should've had HR's.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cardinals just hit two Wrigley Specials...
...It'd be 6-0 right now if the wind wasn't blowing in.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Technically
it'd be 6-1 :P Aramis had a wrigley special as well.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, it would be 6-1
Ramirez hit one that should have gone out. The wind must really be blowing in today.

by jdubya on Aug 20, 2006 3:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the wind just saved
the Cubs again.  Belly and Yadi's both had possibilities if they weren't knocked down.  The good thing about it is that Carp is pitching and has that in his favor also.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp needs to K the side here to help fullfill
my Cy Young predictor fantasy.  6 Ks, 7 scoreless and he's in the Top 2 for Cy Young this year.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:47 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
Mainly he needs a win. And as long as he doesn't walk guys, that'll help his cause. But a big deal about him is he needs to improve his record.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does Juan Pierre...
play good against anyone but us?!
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

do the cubs...
play well against anyone but us?

by sjoshi on Aug 20, 2006 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dammit
leadoff triple....not good

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You forgot this is Carp
and not EVERY other Cardinals pitcher.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp's ERA back up over 3...
..I was hoping for a classic Carp gem.  I hope it doesn't come undone here.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well
I was hoping Carp could hold onto the shutout....I was at the last game he pitched on Tuesday (vs. Harang), so that's the first run he's given up in a long time, 15+ innings....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice post Tim D
I think I'm inclined to disagree on Wainwright staying in the bullpen. He's showed last season he can throw a lot of innings in AAA. But I suppose I could see him as a very good closer in the near future with that nasty curve of his.

I'm all for Schmidt and then some. That's exactly what we need is a dominant starter, and this team is dead last w/K's so a rotation with Carp, Reyes and Schmidt would turn that around.

Feel ya on the 5th starter situation. I think Weaver could be back for cheap, maybe a 1 year deal. Like the Dellucci idea, though it's gonna be harder for the Cards to see the need the way Dunc is hitting, though he is probably way over his head right now.

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 3:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here it comes...
the Wrigley meltdown for the Cardinals.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh no
it doesn't. not today. i'd be tempted to jump into doom and gloom again, but I'm gonna stay positive here. Carp will get Nevin and hold the lead.

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 3:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doh
OK....DP here, c'mon....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love Scott Rolen
but what is his Wrigley curse.  He misplayed that ball.  It was tough, granted, but usually he makes that DP.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh Man
That was a nasty curve ball.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 3:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how many pitches is Mateo up to?
It's a close game so hopefully Dempster will come in again [rubs hands]....better go make some popcorn....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you think Carp will bat for himself here?
He's only at 88 pitches.  I'm hoping TLR lets him come back out in the 7th.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

alright...
... let's get those runs back. Dunc, Pujols, i'm looking at you guys.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry guys
I switched chairs for that inning, my bad. I'm back to where I started.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 3:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Miles will homer here.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or he'll reach on an E4
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry to report bad news
but the Reds just beat the Pirates.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does anyone
know how many players the team can call up when the expand the rosters Sept 1.

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 4:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think
its open to the whole 40 man roster
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Aug 20, 2006 7:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My thoughts on 07
Good post today.  Nothing is funner than the if I was Jock posts...  If I was Jock...
  1.  No Schmidt - I live is SF and think the future schmidt is the 05 vs. 06 version.  He is pitching well but is losing velo (not the kind of pitcher I am paying big money for:
  2.  I agree with Timber - Sign Lugo and move Eck to second (unless we can find another SS or a 2B with a Bat
  3.  Resign Edmonds at 3Y 20M.  Decent money for a 37 YO or 2Y 17M if that is his preference
  4.  Extend Carpenter an extra YR at $14M or so (i.e. recognize that we are underpaying him so when we overpay for another starter he gets his due)
  5.  Package Reyes or Wainright with Duncan and any Double A or lower prospect (except Hawksworth) for Dontrelle in the offseason.  We have to give up alot to get Dontrelle...
  6.  Start promoting our minor league relievers (i.e. we have Perez, Sillman, Worrell, Cavazos, AA Setup man excapes me, lets get this group to triple A and pitch relief games if he have to find someone with ML stuff) AND sign/trade for a top tier setup man
  7.  Try to pry away a Devil Rays outfielder (if we can give up a package of 3-4 starter ceiling prospects or low minors prospects)
OK - Now lets see it happen!

-K  

by Lawless on Aug 20, 2006 4:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You want to give up a potential....
..everyday left fielder and 2 cheap starters for 1 pitcher who may or may not be wearing thin from overwork?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Understand but don't agree
Agreed - could be another Mulder, but you have to roll the dice to get an Ace that you didn't develop...  I can see why some wouldn't.

by Lawless on Aug 20, 2006 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Go look at Willis' pitch count the last 3 yrs...
This yr especially. He has thrown 4 games of 120+ pitches. He routinely throws over 110+ pitches.

Either he has a rubber arm or it's going to give out soon. Look at Carp. He threw a lot of pitches and then had shoulder problems.

I would rather have 3 good, young & CHEAP players in Reyes, Wainwright and Duncan.

by jdubya on Aug 20, 2006 4:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's the Ricky Williams conundrum
selling out the future for one guy dooms your team if that one guy gets hurt....I like the idea of Dontrelle in red but Duncan, Reyes, and Wain have to be off-limits....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eck
Why move Eck to second? He's a possible candidate for gold glove this year . . .

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep
I just don't see Eckstein keeping it up.  I like him, but can't see him as our SS over the next 3,4 years.  Would like Eckstein much better as a 7 or 8 slot hitter...  

To further point out my ingnorance I will never complain about Aaron Miles again.  I read the article in ESPN the magazine about his taking on his captor in FLA (when M. Ensberg was take hostage, etc.) and will never be able to be pissed at him again.  

-K

by Lawless on Aug 20, 2006 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I vaguely remember that . . .
Can you link that Miles story? Or is it only in the actual magazine?

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 4:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Link
The article from the Post-Dispatch has sunk into their archive morass, but here's a similar story from the Houston Chronicle.

The player in the other room was Aaron Miles, who'd been out eating dinner with his father and returned to the adjoining room to find the armed headbussas (using the preferred term from the Evening Whirl). He called the cops and wrestled one of the thieves to the ground.

by liam on Aug 20, 2006 4:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Miles Story
Did a quick search at ESPN and couldn't find the story.  Readers Digest Version:
  1.  Ensberg and Several Other Astros Minor Leaguers held at gunpoint (not simple robbery seemed worse)
  2.  One of the bad guys rounds up Miles in the next room.  
  3.  Cops show up and Miles (son of a heavyweight professional boxer believe it or not) bites his captor and struggles for the gune.  The captor bites Miles, they struggle outside and the cops shoot the captor five times with Miles on top of him
  4.  Miles comes screaming back to Ensberg and his friends with pieces of the other guys face on him
  5.  Miles is out playing the next day (gritty signle A infielder at the time)
Just can't get mad at him anymore...

by Lawless on Aug 20, 2006 4:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
It's even more amazing that he did that when you see him standing next to Chris Duncan. He must be one tough cookie.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 7:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought the same thing
Miles is a stud.  Took on a guy with a gun to his head.  Wow!

by OCCardsFan on Aug 20, 2006 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Our offense shut down...
after the first inning. Jeez.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Redlegs defeat the Pirates...
...by a score of 5-1 to solidify their hold on the wildcard and to further pressure the cards.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 20, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

damn
so much for that idea

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 4:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very Nice
He's really developed defensively this season. Dave McKay must be a better outfield coach than he gets credit for.

by liam on Aug 20, 2006 4:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mateo out
we're into the bullpen now....AP, Rolen, Enc up in the 8th....who do they have warming up?

PS we may need an overflow thread....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 4:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Aardvark time
Whoops, I mean Aardsma.

Anyone else notice his goofy Gameday photo?

"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Aug 20, 2006 4:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
It looks like he just took a hard line drive in the keister.

by punditmoi on Aug 20, 2006 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Albert...
can't be healthy. Aardsma just blew it right by him.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I sit here with a stunned look
Albert just doesn't seem right.  2 of those pitches were in his wheelhouse.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont understand why KTRS puts these clowns
in the booth? 8th inning against the cubs - I dont care what John Fogerty is up to.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 20, 2006 4:15 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fogerty
Maybe they'll let him play (dum da da) center field.

by punditmoi on Aug 20, 2006 4:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno....
...if he quickly retires Murton, he'll be at 114.

Bet he sends Izzy out there in the 9th.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barrett...
anyone else afraid of seeing him in the 9th? I sure am.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AP does deserve a gold glove
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp
Nice inning.  Great D, by AP

by OCCardsFan on Aug 20, 2006 4:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp!
8 inn, 7 Ks. nice. with help from AP.

by jdubya on Aug 20, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

114 pitches ties Carps...
...highest pitch count of the season.

I would be SHOCKED to see him back out there, though I'd love it.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes!!!
I love you, Chris Carpenter. Ace indeed.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." -- Ozzy Osbourne

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 20, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great inning
I'd feel a LOT better if we could scratch a run across the plate this inning.

by stltrav09 on Aug 20, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least let him throw to the 1st batter.
Who really wants to see Izzy gonna?....
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp out...
Means it is Izzy time...
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothinig scares me more....
Than...1) Chicks in big trucks.
       2) Izzy in the 9th with less than a 3 run lead...

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 4:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha
"Chicks in big trucks." haha.

Well, you got your wish. 3 run lead now.

by aet15 on Aug 20, 2006 4:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well dammit
Yadi made the choice for TLR with a double and 2 outs.  Love the hit... worried about Izzy.  Prove me wrong Izzy!!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How many pitches did Izzy throw yesterday?
Seems like he might not be available.
"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Aug 20, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

izzy?
maybe, but he could be gassed. he's had a lot of work the past few days.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

another double for Yadi
I never suspected he'd be third in team doubles, but I suppose power hitting is about his only shot at getting on base.

by Elle on Aug 20, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yadi
has had horrible luck the last 2 seasons. I really think he's a better hitter then the results he's has got.

PrOPS, developed by THT writer JC Bradbury and which is a formula for predicting what a player's OPS is likely to be in the future based on his batted balls, strikeouts, home runs and walks.

Anyway, according to PrOPS Yadi should have a .288 average and a .740 OPS. I think the outcry against Yadier's offense would be silenced a bit if he ever hit that well.

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 4:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PrOPS
Rev--I'd noticed the same thing in previous visits to hardball times. This pattern fits with our intuitions:  Yadi often hits the ball hard but seems to have bad luck with his location.  In the long run, the expectation is that he will "regress up" to these projected numbers.  His real numbers underestimate what he should do over time.

I know his OPS vs. PrOPS gap was huge last year as well.

In the last month or so I haven't seen Yadi showing up on the THT stats list. You should post a diary with the stats or links.

by ncgostl on Aug 20, 2006 7:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on you Speziatics!!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh well..
come on Izzy, please  do this is uneventful fashion.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES SPEZIATICS!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe...
... we'll get to see Dunc hit against Ohman after all.

by kindred on Aug 20, 2006 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HA...
...with Izzy coming in, you may be right.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that last run
Might keep Izzy out of the game...

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 4:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes...Im aware of that...
but just thinking long term ...and wear and tear...key word was MIGHT....

by Timbo02 on Aug 20, 2006 4:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speezo comes through
it'll probably be Wainwright in the 9th, right? Izzy threw two innings yesterday....

by nota bene on Aug 20, 2006 4:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm still betting Izzy gonna
Still a save situation.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Aug 20, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate you Izzy
so much.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 20, 2006 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha
watch your tone!!

take your ranting elsewhere......

.... on a brighter note for all you all.....

i leave to go back to school tomorrow so i doubt all you fake ass people wont get to see much of me as much as u all love me...

but dont worry.. i'll come back around to cause a fuss every now and then....

LOL

by cubHaterisBACK on Aug 20, 2006 4:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Back to school no doubt...
...to repeat the ninth grade. Hope it's not a long walk from the trailer park.
Baily

by Baily on Aug 20, 2006 6:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wish u wouldnt put your childhood
shame on someone else Son....

by cubsHATER on Aug 21, 2006 12:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHAHAHAHAHA
So flipping predictable at this point.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 20, 2006 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

all right
now that is out of the way let's get 3 outs, shall we?

by erik on Aug 20, 2006 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs