Marquis for Heilman (and Jason Schmidt)

by Toddius396 on Jul 30, 2006 11:57 PM EDT Comment 38 comments

I don't know if the rumor is legit or has already been mentioned here - but Will Carroll alleges that Heilman for Marquis is being discussed - two guys who are not in the highest favor with their teams. fwiw - I hope we do it. heilman throws harder, improves our bullpen, and might join the rotation next year. he might also start until mulder comes back. UPDATE price on schmidt could be driven up by all the teams that will be interested. I doubt anyone will offer a player as good as Reyes, though - but I don't know if we can afford to trade him with our rotation situation next year. This could also stop the heilman trade, as the mets are definitely interested. Billy Beane also wants heilman as part of the Zito package.

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do it!

Heilman is gonna be special.

Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 31, 2006 12:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it's a no-brainer

mets must really be desperate for a pitcher if they're even considering this trade

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

mlbtraderumors.com

and Jason Stark are reporting that schmidt is available - giants are falling out of contention. Possible fire sale?

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OMG

how many people here have been telling me this will never happen...

I've been SCREAMING for this trade for weeks...

I really hope we get Schmidt!!!

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

please

oh, please oh please oh please let this be true. I'd be giddy!!!

I don't believe in jinxes, so don't get mad at me for saying this...but today i had a feeling that we'd get Heilman somehow...I don't know why I was thinking about it, it was after the game way before the rumors.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 31, 2006 12:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's interesting

Were you watching the Mets play or something?

I don't believe in jinxes either, but I do believe that it's possible to have an insight and not recognize it. Perhaps you just recognized that the Mets were gonna get rid of Heilman and that Marquis for Heilman would work great for both teams?

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or i have

ESPN or something. Yeah, probably just realized it. :)

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 31, 2006 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This would be a steal for the Cards

Heilman would be a guy who would help both immediately and long-term, and do it cheaply enough to give Walt room to go after a big name. It's apparent Marquis will never fully get it together while in St. Louis, so getting this much value for him and his 5+ ERA would be awesome.

Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Jul 31, 2006 12:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

who do u think...

we would have to give up for schmidt if he indeed is available? reyes, wainwright, rasmus, probably one of the SP's and rasmus withanother prospect

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WOW

I really doubt it. Schmidt is a FA at end of year. Step one you take on his entire contract. Then you package Duncan, Reyes a midlevel pitching prospect (Parisi, Lambert) and perhaps a Tyler Greene and I think you could land him.

Then if you acquire a Craig Wilson or Shawn Green for LF - voila you have a WS contender. 1-2 hammer at the top of the rotation and a good offense.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it wouldn't take that much

two decent prospects would do it, because he's an impending f.a.

here's the problem: the giants want mlb-ready position-player prospects, of which we have virtually zero. we could offer, say, duncan and rasmus.

we could offer them rasmus and juan'cion . . . . .

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they could use any position

do they want mlb ready or close to mlb ready?
because they are old at every position

C Matheny (37 by end of year)
1B Shea Hillenbrand (FA; 32)
2B Durham (FA; 35 this year)
SS Vizquel (39)
3B Feliz (31)
LF Bonds (42)
CF Finley/Winn (41/32)
RF Alou (40)

wow! that's got to be one of the oldest teams ever

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walkers in the outfield

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 31, 2006 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as pricy as pitch is I'm not sure I agree

Why do you think they would want position players over cheap pitchers.

They have Lowry, Morris, Cain and Wright in their rotaiton (w/ Schmidt). Reyes would fill that out nicely for the rest of the year.

Duncan seems to fit well with them however. Their outfield is practically on walkers.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This may not be popular

But I wouldn't want to deal Encarnacion. He's actually been very productive lately and I tend to think that he's better then we give him credit for being. The main reason, however, is that we need him in the outfield, because Edmonds and Taguchi are the only reliable outfielders we have without him and Taguchi is in a major slump offensively.

In other words, would we really want to start Taguchi, with his .124 BA since the all-star break, in RF and Duncan in LF every day? We can debate how good Encarnacion is on offense and defense, but other than Edmonds, I think we'd all agree that he's better at both then any of our other options.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If any team offered us Major League talent...

...for JuanEnc, I as a fan would be jumping for joy. He has produced, no doubt. However, he is the laziest ass I've ever seen in the field. He's made some great catches this year, but I almost wonder if they were really that tough or if he was just jogging to the ball and then diving.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On my own note there...

...Santo said today that 'Yeah.........yeah...well, you see what happened there is that Juan Encar-encar..carnacion has a great arm so they had to hold him at third. A shame."

If Juan's got such a good arm that baseball guru Ron Santo respects it, why does he refuse to EVER attempt to throw a runner out?

Is it the 'secret weapon' he's going to unleash in Game 5 of the NLCS this year or what?

Juan, you freaking sly ninja you!

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not just about Juan though

I don't consider Encarnacion to be too lazy, but a "lazy" Encarnacion is better then a energetic Duncan in RF imo. Rodriguez may be better then people give him credit for being defensively, but he only fills one corner spot and I'm skeptical that TLR will start him regularly anyhow. Taguchi's great in the field, but has been awful, as of late, offensively and wouldn't begin to fill Encarnacion's offensive production. The only one left is Spiezio, who like Taguchi, has been awful since the all-start break, but more importantly, is our backup at 2nd and 3rd.

So we're left with Spiezio, Taguchi, Rodriguez and Duncan to fill the corner spots in the outfield. Only Taguchi is better defensively, and even though Duncan and Rodriguez have had hot bats lately, neither can match Encarnacion's 1.115 OPS since the all-start break.

All things considered, Encarnacion's the best player and trading him would result in a significant loss either on offense or defense, depending on who you choose to replace him.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Juan's OPS since the All-star break is....

....1.074,
Duncan's is .974
JRod's (small sample size) is .992

Yes, they are .080 to .100 points lower, but the drop off weighed against trading his lazy self doesn't seem so bad. And this is with Juan playing some of his best baseball.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trading him for pitching...

...it should read.

Not just trading him to trade him. HA!

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I tend to agree with you

I think Enc is lazy and sometimes he pisses me off (re: today's game thread - DP swinging at the fist pitch) but he plays CF and that may make that 07 or 08 contract more attractive.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure what it would take....

but I think getting Heilman would help make Reyes a bit more expendable, even if Schmidt ended up being nothing more than a couple months' rental. We'd still have three starters locked up for next year in that case, so I could definitely see Jocketty being more willing to part with Reyes.

Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Jul 31, 2006 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to have Schmidt

But not if it means giving up Reyes or Wainwright. I'd be willing to give up Rasmus, but Reyes and Wainwright are key pieces to our future pitching staff and signing Schmidt doesn't guarantee a WS title.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would give them Reyes & Rasmus..

Schmidt is a legitimate #1 starter. That would give us Carp & Schmidt to combat all the other teams; Mets - Pedro & Glavine, Astros - Clemens & Oswalt, etc.

Schmidt does not guarantee a WS title but he would really help! Schmidt might give us the extra we need to get over the hump. Plus Walt might just be able to get Dewitt to loosen the purse strings and sign him during the off-season. Ok, wait, I'm dreaming here. That probably won't happen.

I would hate to give up Reyes & Rasmus but sometimes you have to give up something to get something. Lboros suggestion of Rasmus & Encarnacion would be even better.

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they can resign Schmidt

then bring him on! But I have to say that I'm quite skeptical that Dewitt would open the purse strings enough to entice him back and I'd hate to lose several years of inexpensive Reyes for a couple of months of dazzling Schmidt.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just

don't understand why the heck they would trade Heilman for Marquis...? If Walt does this, he really is The Master.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 31, 2006 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is the same organization

that sent Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. I badly want this deal to happen, which means that it won't.

by ryanisforever on Jul 31, 2006 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this seems to good to be true

unless they really have soured on Heilman that much.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

Can I get a link to this rumor? Because frankly, it does sound to good to be a true, and it'd be nice to see in print.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 1:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

here

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5361&PHPSESSID=1fda3ce579d7cac9ebd42bb1a 110e19c
subscription required

The Mets haven't made the most of Aaron Heilman. Once expected to be a rotation fixture, the pitcher has instead found a home in the bullpen. He could find a home closer to his midwest roots if the information I got from a Mets official pans out. I'm told that the Mets are discussing shipping Heilman to the Cardinals in return for free-agent-to-be Jason Marquis. The Mets would need to fill the bullpen slot, possibly reaching out for Roberto Hernandez or shifting Brian Bannister to the pen.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright.

Thanks.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ISchmidt's price

could be driven up by all the teams that will be interested. I doubt anyone will offer a player as good as Reyes, though - but I don't know if we can afford to trade him with our rotation situation next year.

This could also stop the heilman trade, as the mets are definitely interested.

Billy Beane also wants heilman as part of the Zito package.

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 1:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Someone please enlighten me...

If Aaron Heilman is so great, why would the Mets trade him? True this is the same team that traded Scott Kazmir....but not the same GM. I'm not saying that Marquis is awesome, but he has 125 major league starts vs. Heilman's 25. Is Heilman's ceiling really that much higher than Marquis'?

by nzach54 on Jul 31, 2006 2:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The differences between Heilman and Marquis

We'll have Heilman for a few years, while Marquis is a soon-to-be free agent.
Heilman would probably be satisified pitching out of the bullpen, whereas Marquis would not. This is important when considering that someone has to go when/if Mulder returns and considering that we need some bullpen help.
I'm not qualified to say whether Heilman's ceiling is higher, but he does have significantly higher k/9 and k/bb rates, although they mostly represent him as a reliever, unlike with Marquis.
Marquis has had 3 years to prove himself under Duncan's tutelage and seems to be digressing. It wouldn't hurt to shake things up a bit and give someone else a chance.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the mets are trading with only

one thing in mind: getting to the world series. their regular season is over; they've already made the playoffs.

if they think marquis can improve their chances of getting through the 1st two rounds of the playoffs, they might make that trade.

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

newsday says...

NY newsday says heilman doesn't want to stay in the pen...

Quote:

"I still think of myself as a starter," Heilman said. "That's certainly something I want to get back to. But right now, and probably for the rest of this season, it doesn't make sense to do that. Eventually, I'd like to get back to it."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spminside284832043jul28,0,7055019.story?coll=ny-longi sland-homepage

by jroman on Jul 31, 2006 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heilman is on the outs with NY mgmt & fans...

I live in NY and watch some of the Mets games. He has made some bonehead plays this year and has not pitched as well as last year.

The most recent bonehead play was on defense. He jogged to first base after receiving a ground ball from Delgado and the runner bet him to the bag. The fans were all over him. Willie Randolph was not happy. I think that was the last straw.

NY media and fans will turn on you in a second if they think you are not performing. They are nothing like STL fans. I remember Giambi being roasted during the steriod allegations and it wasn't the steroids. He wasn't hitting. They wanted to void his contract. Now, they love him. "Steriods, what steroids?"

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs