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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

Cards get Belliard?

So sayeth Ken Rosenthal:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5830214

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Indians second baseman Ron Belliard is expected to be traded to the Cardinals if he makes it through Sunday's game healthy, FOXSports.com has learned.

The Cardinals also could acquire right-handed reliever Guillermo Mota in the deal, but the Indians are still talking about Mota with other clubs.
Belliard, 31, recently missed six games with a hamstring injury, but returned to the Indians' lineup Saturday. The Cardinals want to make sure that he is fully recovered before completing the deal.
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Now on official Tribe website
It's Belliard for Luna:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060730&content_id=1583916& ;vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

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The Cardinals needed a second-base solution for the stretch run, and the Indians needed middle-infield depth for the long haul.
Both sides got what they wanted Sunday afternoon, as the Indians are believed to have shipped veteran second baseman Ronnie Belliard to the Cards for utility infielder Hector Luna.
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by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 30, 2006 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

i like...
i like getting belliard, but i think we overpaid.  i dont like giving up luna who is cheaper, under contract longer, and might be just as good.  plus i guess miles is now the back up SS?

by dmb60614 on Jul 30, 2006 6:49 PM EDT reply actions  

OMG!!!
I just saw this on ESPN's website. Tony is lathering Luna with praise:

La Russa said he thinks Luna can become a "special" player.

"There isn't anybody who's had more confidence in him than our staff," La Russa said. "We've given him playing time. He's responded. I think he has a chance to be a special player and he's still learning."

What?! You're kidding me?! Well then WHY DIDN'T YOU PLAY HIM EVERYDAY!! I can't stand this kind of insincere horse-shit.

Here's the link:

Indians send Belliard to Cardinals for Luna

by jdubya on Jul 30, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand
We pay more for Belliard's line...

.281 BA/.337 OBP/.420 SLG/.757 OPS

8 HR/44 RBI

Compared to our 2B production...

.271 BA/.337 OBP/.364 SLG/.702 OPS

4 HR/35 RBI

$340K for Luna this season. $350K for Miles. $4M for Belliard. So, we pay more than four times as much for a 10 percentage point increase in BA, no increase in OBP, a 56 point increase in SLG and a corresponding 55 point increase in OPS. Is this worth it?

Career fielding numbers show Luna with 5.23 range factor and .835 zone rating at 2B compared to a 5.08 range factor and .823 zone rating at 2B for Belliard.

Why did we make this trade?

by bgh on Jul 30, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Let's be real here
Luna is not a difference maker, Miles is not a difference maker, Belliard is better than these two, but is he a difference maker? That is the question. I personally feel we have done too little too late, however there is still 22 hours left to make more deals. We still have a platoon in the OF and our pitching is suspect. Luckily our division is weak. But does that not mean we are the best weakest team out there? We absolutely need another big bat or we'll see Pujols getting pitched around and a quick exit in the playoffs.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." -Bob Gibson

by OKCardsfan on Jul 30, 2006 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW...
I like the trade. Luna was never going to get a shot in STL. Why, I'll never know. Especially, since Tony thinks Luna is such a "special" player.

Belliard is now our starting 2B, which means that Miles goes to the bench. That is an upgrade. Belliard also is a better overall player than either Luna or Miles.

Since he is a free agent and will cost some money to re-sign, looks like he could be a rental player. Unless he takes the "Home Town Discount" as Walt like to say.

In hindsight, we should have just re-signed Gruz.

by jdubya on Jul 30, 2006 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree
that its an upgrade in the sense of no longer seeing miles out there at 2b.  i just dont understand giving up luna.  how many people were after belliard?  walt overpaid in my opinion.

i dont mind the small changes as long as there are more of them and they are made with non-prospects.  bring in delucci or craig wilson for the outfield.   bring in lieber or kip wells to try out in the rotation.  bring in cormier or someone else for the bullpen.  shake the team up a little.

by dmb60614 on Jul 30, 2006 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

A small upgrade
but Belliard is still not the answer. The Cards pitching staff is getting rocked again.  I am so mad about this series with the Cubs that I told my brother who is a Cubs fan, that I would just settle for a forfeit for the rest of the season against the Cubs.

by fop197 on Jul 30, 2006 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

2B OR NOT 2B
So they feed us this crap about heavy contracts on the corners means going cheap up the middle.  Of course they pitched the big number to Edgar too, but lucked into an economy dfa that worked to satisfaction at least through year one.  So we're advised that using 2B as the spot for utility guys to contend for their spot, and the competition brings a parade with a few good surprises like Womack, Hart, Nunez, and Grudz.  Then despite setting a club record for DP's, we're reminded that we need to stick to the economy plan, and have another spring time tryout of wanabees and never-weres.  We even had a few inspired faithfull imagining that this year's crop including Spivey would end up better than the previous seasons of Grudz, Womack, and Vina.

Alas, it didn't work quite as planned.  Some of us had hope that Luna was prepared to fulfill his promise sooner than other's expected, and we'd have to live with Miles off the bench.  Maybe not as good, but certainly stuck to the plan of being cheap (so the money goes elsewhere).  Then Miles does his Bo Hart imitation and lays claim to part of a platoon.  I wonder if there isn't also some sentiment that with Bigbie perpetually sidelined, this is also an opportunity to prove some merit to the dump trade of Ray King.  Then again, how do you justify paying for Miles, Spivey, and Cruz, just to play the guy you already had on the roster at the minimum?

So now what.  They have continued the charade (parade) through LF and SP.  Why not take another half assed gamble at 2B?  But Belliard for Luna, please.  Other posters have noted plenty of reasons why this makes no sense, (Salary, FA status, etc.) and yet some are willing to shrug it off as an upgrade so what the hell.  I differ on that account as well.  A serious comparison of Belliard, Luna, and Grudz over at Fangraphs won't prove any significant difference to my eye.  Except maybe that Belliard can't steal a base, and he can GIDP more often., and Luna can draw a walk more often.  Perhaps RISP is in Beliard's favor, but I don't know where to find that stat.

If then you say, but he's an upgrade defensively, that doesn't appear to be certain either.  Fielding percentage is very close between Luna and Belliard, while Grudz is at Gold Glove level.  Even turning the DP doesn't appear to be obviously in favor of Belliard.  So then what is the point.  We take on the Salary we previously refused, for a rental player with no upside.  Worse yet we gave away the player we had, that did in fact still possess an upside.  Is this how we posture for Playoffs or placate fans looking for any evidence of effort to do something to improve the team.  Frankly, I think this fails either consideration.

With the pathetically reduced performance of the pitching staff, both starters and bullpen, no improvement of 2B and LF could offset the decline to mediocrity.  The only reason this club's not sitting at .500 is the overwhelming performance of our MVP.  There are more good reasons to expect this club to miss the WC, or get knocked out in round one should they hang on somehow.  The about face on the 2B plan, coupled with a senseless trade, is more unsettling regarding the outlook for the club than it is compelling reassurance that we are now loading up for a stretch run.

Busch III with it's 17 tier pricing is sold out.  The cost/return ratio to add a few playoff games appears too steep, or the real improvements necessary (pitching) are unobtainable at any price.  Even if WJ can get Green through waivers, the magic touch of making this club a contender is lost.  Duncan can only work so many miracles with a pitching staff of never-weres and never will-bees.  In fact it is very often discussed that the will-bees won't because of the preference for retro-projects.

So What?  So with the pitching giving away runs faster than we can score, mediocrity here we are.  Senseless gestures like this trade at 2B only serve to confirm the direction this club will go.  The fans having already paid for those sold out games to the end have only to proceed from disheartened to disillusioned to disgusted and then disenfranchised.

Not the way we envisionned this playing out.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 30, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Luna's our disignated runner
I haven't even though of that yet. While it's probably not that big of a deal, it could be a factor.

by rob is back on Jul 31, 2006 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

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