just win baby
if jason marquis keeps this up, he'll join a very select list of pitchers: guys who finished among the top 3 in wins in their league while posting an era of 5.00 or above. it has only happened 5 times since 1900:
| name | team | year | w-l | era | wins rank |
era rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ray kremer | pit | 1930 | 20-12 | 5.02 | T1st | 23/30 |
| bobo newsom | stl (a) | 1938 | 20-16 | 5.08 | 2d | 24/30 |
| roxie lawson | det | 1937 | 18-7 | 5.26 | 3d | 27/31 |
| bartolo colon | cle | 2004 | 18-12 | 5.01 | T3d | 32/40 |
| kevin ritz | col | 1996 | 17-11 | 5.28 | T3d | 37/41 |
in the "era rank" column in the table, the 2d number is the overall number of era-title qualifiers in the league -- to qualify, your innings pitched must be at least as high as the number of games your team played. so, for instance, ray kremer finished 23d in the league in era; there were 30 qualifiers overall. so his 5.02 era was still better than that of nearly 1/4 of the nl's pitchers.
this is not a terrible group of guys to get lumped in with. kremer didn't reach the major leagues until age 31 but still won 143 games in 10 years, plus 2 world series games (including the clincher in 1925); he twice led the league in era. newsom, one of the more colorful players of the 1930s and 40s, was on the 2d of his 3 tours of duty with the browns; he would follow this season with two more 20-win campaigns. he won 2 games in the 1940 world series and came within 9 outs of a 3d, but he took a 2-1 loss in a classic game 7. newsom led the league in losses four times and ranks 25th on the all-time list but still managed 211 wins, which ain't shabby.
colon you're familiar with; won a cy young award last season, is approaching 150 career wins and may well get to 200. finally there are lawson and ritz, neither of whom was much to speak of; marquis already has surpassed both of them in career wins. ritz's era, by the way, was very good; he was pitching at coors field at the height of its terror, so his park-adjusted era is better than league average.
marquis also has a shot at another, even more exclusive list: guys who won 15 or more games while finishing dead last in their league among era qualifiers. only two have achieved this honor: wayne lamaster in 1930 (his rookie season) and dan spillner 50 years later. spillner that season set career highs in wins, innings, starts, winning pct, and complete games while posting the worst era of his life. marquis moved out of last place with his performance yesterday; he is now 47th among the national league's 48 qualifiers.
on a third list, marquis has nearly reached the summit: most wins in franchise history (post-1900) by a pitcher with a 5.00 era or higher. the current record is 13, shared by bret tomko in 2003 (5.28 era) and hall-of-famer jesse haines in 1929 (5.71). i note, however, that bob tewksbury rightfully deserves that record; he had racked up 12 wins with a 5.32 era in 1994 when they called off the season.
tough luck for tewksie. jason's a lock to set a new standard, less'n he ruins ev'ything and drags his era down into the 4s. . . . . which he can do by posting an era of roughly 3.80 from here on out. should he backslide instead, marquis still has a shot at breaking the all-time franchise mark for highest era by a qualifier -- 5.93 by bill sherdel, also in 1929. (he and haines must have anchored a hell of a staff.) as of yesterday morning jason actually had sherdel beat by 0.04; his 8 shutout innings yesterday dropped his era to 5.62, still good for 4th on the franchise's worst-era list.
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Comments
Kinney
by Pokey Joe on Jul 24, 2006 8:59 AM EDT 0 recs
Timo, in person
In the first inning, the Cubs had the bases loaded, and a single came to Perez who proceeded to throw a high-arching floater over the cut-off man's head that allowed the hitter to advance to second. Then, in the later innings, a lazy fly ball down the line found open grass when Timo either got a bad read or took an awful path. (I don't know; I was watching the ball since it looked like might have had a chance at a keepsake.) After the play, a Cubs fan yelled, "Nice job, Timo! Way to attack that fly ball!"
I just wanted to pass along how bad his outfield play is when it is occuring twenty feet from you.
by bgh on Jul 24, 2006 9:11 AM EDT 0 recs
That's what's funny about pro baseball...
It's amazing how little one game can tell you, either way, about a player.
by whopperman on
Jul 24, 2006 12:19 PM EDT
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#21
by fop197 on Jul 24, 2006 10:28 AM EDT 0 recs
his record
by gthedamned on
Jul 24, 2006 11:00 AM EDT
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hey
Take away the two slow-pitch softball games and Marquis is 12-5 with a 4.30 ERA and 1.245 WHIP. Really, over 19 starts thats decent for a #4 starter type--which is what he is.
The problem is you never know when that game will come. If he would just forewarn us I think we would all like him a bit more :)
by beanocook on
Jul 24, 2006 11:32 AM EDT
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Bi-polar Betty
According to WPA, he's had 8 starts in which his pitching has hurt the team's chance to win by at least 10 points (50 pts constitutes a win/loss) and 10 in which he's helped the team by at least 10 points. That leaves only three starts in which he's only "kept his team in it."
As a whole, his pitching arm has helped the team win more than he's he's caused them to lose (overall WPA: 23.7). If he was performing like a #2 starter, he'd be closer to 150 by now. But that's not what he's here for; he's a #3 at best.
by Solanus on
Jul 24, 2006 12:46 PM EDT
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here's an interesting article
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/phranklin/
"A typical ERA qualifier with a bad season will improve his ERA by about a full run if you take out his four worst performances. . . . "
but as he goes on to show, that doesn't obviate the fact that they're lousy pitchers.
jason marquis is the type of starter no playoff team ever wants to throw --- there's too great a chance he will lose the game singlehanded.
by lboros on
Jul 24, 2006 1:16 PM EDT
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but
by lopey986 on
Jul 24, 2006 1:49 PM EDT
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Streaky
Sure, we have the usual reliable players like Pujols, Rolen, and Eckstein. Most of the other guys on the team, however, are streaky -- Edmonds, Encarnacion, Marquis, Izzy, and even Carpenter has been a little streaky this year (at least more than normal . . . it hardly seems fair to mention him in the same sentence as Izzy).
I point this out because I kind of like it. I firmly believe that the team that gets hot at the right time does well in the playoffs, with the hottest team winning it all. I know the 06' Cards aren't as good as the 04' Cards, but IF the Cards get hot, I like their chances. Even if they don't get hot in the regular season, I think they still win the division, which gives them A CHANCE to catch fire in the playoffs. I'm just rambling now, but what does everyone think?
by Ray Lankford on Jul 24, 2006 10:29 AM EDT 0 recs
I kind of feel the same way,
But ... if we just run with this for a second and think about possible psychological mechanisms, there might be something to it. Maybe a team that kicks ass every day (like the '04 Cardinals) gets so used to things going their way that they are unprepared for a sudden bout of adversity. I think about the Rams when they were at their peak, toying with almost everyone. On those rare occasions when someone threw something new at them (i.e., the Patriots in the Super Bowl), the facade comes crumbling down and they don't know how to cope with it. A streaky team, on the other hand, knows disaster can strike any time, in fact they expect it since it happens once a week, so don't get so easily flustered when it comes along.
Or not. My rational self may regret this post by tomorrow.
by MdRedbirdFreak on
Jul 24, 2006 11:17 AM EDT
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Hot teams
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 24, 2006 12:01 PM EDT
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consistency
I thought this year might be his breakout year. He's what, 28 now? About the time when SP's start to come into their own and figure it out. I've still got my hopes up for him but it's no wonder that LaRussa has had little faith in him the last 2 postseasons. How will it work out this October if Suppan is back on track, Mulder comes back w/ healthy and with good mechanics, and Weaver establishes some consistency? I guess that's why LaRussa gets the big bucks!
by houstoncardinal on Jul 24, 2006 10:43 AM EDT 0 recs
Carpenter streaky?
by Pokey Joe on Jul 24, 2006 10:46 AM EDT 0 recs
Good point
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 24, 2006 10:51 AM EDT
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Community #18 Cardinals Prospect
Please, head over to the Community Top 20 Cardinals Prospects diary and vote for the #18 prospect ASAP. Here is the link:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/story/2006/7/24/105425/301
Thanks for voting.
by DJ87 on Jul 24, 2006 11:03 AM EDT 0 recs
OUT OF IT
What is everyones thoughts on our hot streak before the trade deadline? does this mean we are better off because the other teams don't think we aren't as needy and therefore helps in our bargaining, or does this make the cardinals less likely to trade? I was relegated to getting news through the hospital TV.. ie ESPN. they said we were in the running for a philly Pat Burrell or Bobby Abreau... thoughts?
by Schnake on Jul 24, 2006 11:52 AM EDT 0 recs
that double negative was
by Schnake on
Jul 24, 2006 11:57 AM EDT
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First off,
About Burrell and Abreu... don't hold your breath. Gillick is literally asking for the farm for Abreu. He just turned down a deal with the Yankee$, because it didn't include Phillip Hughes. Any team not willing to trade high end talent will get a "thanks, but no thanks" from Philly. He might accept a little less for Burrell, but it'll still be expensive.
by cardsrul on
Jul 24, 2006 12:06 PM EDT
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"Maddox," huh?
by salvomania on
Jul 24, 2006 12:34 PM EDT
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actually
by lopey986 on
Jul 24, 2006 2:01 PM EDT
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Burrell
by BigMac545 on Jul 24, 2006 12:30 PM EDT 0 recs
I agree...
by DJ87 on
Jul 24, 2006 12:32 PM EDT
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Cost
by bgh on
Jul 24, 2006 12:43 PM EDT
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I too have been on the Burrell bandwagon
However, I completely disagree that the Phils would take Marquis. Why on earth would they want him? They're pretty much out of the playoff race. They are six games out of the WC, but more importantly have about 9 teams ahead of them. Why would they want a rent-a-wreck like Marquis?
So realistically I think the cost is much higher than what you suggest.
by OCCardsFan on
Jul 24, 2006 1:03 PM EDT
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Marquis
by BigMac545 on
Jul 24, 2006 1:45 PM EDT
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Soriano
The problem with Soriano is that I really dont want Soriano anywhere near the top of the lineup. If we were to trade for him I think the best lineup would be something like this...
Eck
Jimmy
Albert
Rolen
Soriano
Juan
Luna
Yadi
by BigMac545 on Jul 24, 2006 12:50 PM EDT 0 recs
soriano
by lopey986 on
Jul 24, 2006 1:56 PM EDT
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2 hole
by BigMac545 on
Jul 24, 2006 2:29 PM EDT
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I'd much rather . . .
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 24, 2006 2:38 PM EDT
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This all could be a moot point
by cardsrul on
Jul 24, 2006 5:40 PM EDT
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The cost...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on
Jul 24, 2006 2:19 PM EDT
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ESPN says
by PGeorge on
Jul 24, 2006 3:50 PM EDT
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OT: New blog ad

:-D
by iron duke75 on Jul 24, 2006 2:19 PM EDT 0 recs
he's kind of like
by lboros on
Jul 24, 2006 5:43 PM EDT
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haines and sherdel
please remember that the cards won the pennantin 1928 and 1930 with those two stalwarts as anchors on their pitching staff. also keep in mind that those were halcyon days for the major league hitters reaching the zenith of hitting prowess in 1930 when the league average was damned near .300. and those 2 guys most likely had to stay in the game and face the music no matter how badly things were going for them. no 6 inning wonders, those 2.
to compare those days with these is quite a stretch, even though i believe that the hitters today are a far better prepared crew and probably better in every respect.
by dembitz on Jul 24, 2006 2:29 PM EDT 0 recs
fair criticism
haines won 2 games (including #7) in the '26 series; he pitched in 6 series games overall for st louis with a 1.67 era in 32 innings.
by lboros on
Jul 24, 2006 5:51 PM EDT
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jason
by dembitz on Jul 24, 2006 2:32 PM EDT 0 recs
soriano to white sox
and they are gettin mcdougal. i dont think a second WS is too far off.
by lopey986 on Jul 24, 2006 3:33 PM EDT 0 recs
Well, it ain't done yet
Plus, if they trade McCarthy, that payroll is gonna get even higher, since he was gonna be cheap for a few years.
by sdrone on
Jul 24, 2006 3:46 PM EDT
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It's not going to happen....(trust me)
by stanchar on
Jul 24, 2006 4:01 PM EDT
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Call Kenny back and tell him to give us a pitcher
by sdrone on
Jul 24, 2006 4:15 PM EDT
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Yes.........
by stanchar on
Jul 24, 2006 4:20 PM EDT
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hah. But you just said
Which is the odds on call to make, but you can't have it both ways!
by sdrone on
Jul 24, 2006 5:02 PM EDT
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WHITE SOX TRADE........
by stanchar on Jul 24, 2006 4:15 PM EDT 0 recs
White Sox-Soriano---Put Up the White Flag Now
Maybe I'm still bruising from the thrashing they gave the Cards, but I can't think of any team that needs Soriano less.
I guess the question for the National League will be, "Which team wants the honor of getting bulldozed in the Fall Classic?" Personally, I don't know that I'm up for another WS sweep.
by Titus Pullo on Jul 24, 2006 4:29 PM EDT 0 recs
Don't throw in the towel.
In no year from 2000 to 2005 did the team with the best regular season record win the Series (sadly, that includes the 2004 Redbirds). In four of those years, the team with the best regular season record didn't make it to the Series (Seattle in 2001 won 116(!) in the regular season but didn't survive the playoffs). No team that won 100 or more regular season games has won the World Series since 2000.
The average number of regular season wins by Series winners from 2000 - 2005 is 94.3; the average number of wins by Series losers from 2000 - 2005 is 96.5.
by madridbend on
Jul 24, 2006 6:22 PM EDT
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Community #19 Prospect
Please vote for the Cards #19 prospect over at the Community Top 20 diary. The Nicks (Stavinoha and Webber) are locked in a close race, so get your votes in. Here is the link:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/story/2006/7/24/133328/411
Thanks for voting.
by DJ87 on Jul 24, 2006 4:36 PM EDT 0 recs
FYI
by DJ87 on
Jul 24, 2006 5:38 PM EDT
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mlbtraderumors.com
by TNFan32 on Jul 24, 2006 5:09 PM EDT 0 recs
and cuban
by PGeorge on
Jul 24, 2006 5:11 PM EDT
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Cards trades
However, I could see Walt pulling an August deal for Luis Gonzalez if he clear waivers (like Walker or Woody Williams). I think that is the most likely scenario.
by DJ87 on Jul 24, 2006 5:10 PM EDT 0 recs










