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Around SBN: The Animated GIFs Of January

so long to flaccid at-bats

here's how the cardinals began the 2d half last season -- slightly diff'nt situation, insofar as that game-winner brought the cardinals back from 1 run down, but i still like the parallel. the other big difference is that, at this time last year, game-winning feats hadn't yet become albert's forte. on the contrary, there was genuine concern about his pattern of taking bad at-bats in the clutch.

now we almost take it for granted when -- for the 2d time in 3 games -- he hits a game-winner in extra innings. that's just workaday stuff, nothing special. the real thrills were supplied by edmonds, whose re-animation is nothing short of miraculous. this 36-year-old, injury-wracked player rode a full year's worth of flagging play into july; his month-by-month slugging percentages:

july 05 .443
aug 05 .443
sep 05 .600
apr 06 .427
may 06 .329
jun 06 .443

profiles like usually mean that the player is slower and weaker, with a leaden bat and reflexes that no longer obey. so to see edmonds suddenly turning on pitches again and yanking them out of the park . . . . as i said a few days ago, i had concluded that we would never see that out of edmonds again.

back on june 30, after a maddening loss to the royals, TLR singled out edmonds (who'd gone 1 for 6) for his flaccid at-bats. since then, jimmy has delivered at least one rbi and an extra-base hit in 7 of his 9 starts. st louis is 5-2 in those games. for the month of july, edmonds is slugging .771 -- 2d-best in the league among players with at least 30 at-bats.

his confrontation with carerra last night lasted a full 5 minutes; nothing flabby about it. indeed, this was a particularly stout effort by the cardinals, tauter and tighter than the two close ones they won down in houston. they actually played well in the field last night, also pitched well. the whole game had the quality of that edmonds at-bat -- stay alive, extend the game, don't give in, hope the other guy makes a mistake before you do.

*******************************************************

a few more thoughts on the cincinnati-washington trade. this deal fascinates me for some reason -- i guess because it spits so fearlessly into the face of perception. if the trade works out for cincinnati -- if majewski and bray help pitch the reds into the postseason -- somebody will be compelled to go back and sift through the data to find some "tell" that krivsky must have spotted that ev'yone missed. maybe there'll even be some new statistics invented to explain what happened.

but i don't think this trade was based on statistics. i think it was an old-fashioned roll of the dice, a guy just trusting his gut. it vaguely reminds me of the december 1980 trade that got whitey herzog branded a genius -- the deal that sent simmons, fingers, and vukovich to milwaukee for lezcano, sorenson, lapoint, and david green. herzog dealt away the cardinals' best hitter, their best pitcher, and a hall-of-fame closer for a couple of journeymen and two totally unproven players. the cardinals gave milwaukee enough talent to propel that franchise -- which had never been to the playoffs -- into the postseason for the next two seasons.

but when the brewers got to the world series in 1982, the cardinals were there to meet them.

herzog inherited a team that was much like the current edition of the reds -- it could hit like crazy but couldn't do anything else. so he resculpted the roster, got rid of some extraneous hitting (and the hitters' reputations exceeded their actual ability anyway) and made the cardinals' weaknesses throughout the 1970s -- pitching and defense -- into their hallmarks in the 1980s. i see krivsky attempting to do a similar thing, with the same no-looking-back aggression. he's spent his surplus of slugging, one-dimensional outfielders to broaden the talent base on the pitching staff. the reds still have two 40-hr outfielders on the roster, plus denorfia and freel, so i don't think they're gonna miss kearns all that much. and now krivsky has created the payroll flexibility to go after zito or schmidt or one of those guys in the off-season. so by next year the trade may actually translate to: kearns / lopez for majewski / bray / schmidt.

which would be a pretty damn good trade.

another analog: two and a half years ago, the cardinals sent jd drew and eli marrero -- two young, established hitters not unlike kearns and lopez -- to the braves for a couple of unproven pitchers (marquis wainwright) and a journeyman middle reliever (king). lot of people thought jocketty was nuts. but the cardinals of 2003 didn't need bats, they needed arms -- and the deal yielded not only marquis but also jeff suppan, whose signing was made possible by the payroll space the trade created.

however it works out for the reds, i appreciate the risk-taking -- the willingness to let go of a known, and tolerable, but unsatisfactory thing and embrace something that is less certain but gives one an opportunity to advance.

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Walk Off Home Runs
To repost a question that was asked after the game, does anyone know who is the all time leader for walk off homers?  I've been looking, but I haven't found anything yet.  

by Arambar on Jul 14, 2006 6:48 AM EDT reply actions  

someone said
something about bonds having 10.  but he may be the active leader...

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 14, 2006 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, Bonds is the active leader...
... i'm not sure who the career leader is, but i'll bet it's not much more than 10.

by kindred on Jul 14, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thome
has the lead among active players in extra-inning walkoffs.  From the ESPN Game Recap: "Albert Pujols' home run in the bottom of the 14th inning gave the Cardinals a 3-2 win over the Dodgers. It's the fifth time in his career that Pujols has hit a game-ending home run in extra innings. Only three other active players have ever done that at least five times: Jim Thome (6), Barry Bonds (5) and Tim Salmon (5). While Pujols has only been in the major leagues since 2001, the other three all debuted in 1992 or earlier."

by john vb on Jul 14, 2006 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert
Sometime around the seventh inning last night, I starting looking forward in the batting order, figuring that as long as the game was still tied, Albert would come up in the 9th and hit a walkoff. And if the weather was a little different, he would have.

Fast forward a half hour or so, and I was getting ready to leave the house and go into work. Unfortunatly, I had to leave right in the middle of the 14th, so I calculated my route and I figured I'd be on I-44, somewhere around Shrewsbury, when Albert would hit the game winner. And my calculations were incredibly precise.

The man is like freaking clockwork. Amazing.

(Also, if you were the car next to me on 44 when I started honking my horn like a madman, I'm sorry. I got excited.)

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2006 6:56 AM EDT reply actions  

PLUS
It happens so often now, they are getting creative with the celebrations.  

ummm..  this time, just to keep it fresh, let's let him run past us and we can chase him.  Everyone alright with that?

by Schnake on Jul 14, 2006 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you see
Edmonds yelling at the rest of the guys as Pujols ran down the 3rd base line?  I wonder what he was saying.

by john vb on Jul 14, 2006 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

thankful
I was just glad that nobody attempted to tackle him and the oblique.

by Elle on Jul 14, 2006 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also
When I first heard about that Reds trade, I thought it was a joke. That would be bad in a fantasy league. But the more I've thought about it, it very well could make sense. In addition to the bullpen help (which was much, much needed), it frees up Ryan Freel to play more.

Losing Lopez would probably not make me happy if I was a Reds fan, but his defense was suspect at best and you've got to break a few eggs, ya know?

Your right L, this is one of those HIGH RISK/high reward trades that make fake-GMing fun. It very well could pay off.

Of course, if Walt made this move I would totally freak out.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2006 7:09 AM EDT reply actions  

The Money
But I don't see how the Reds are saving that much money here. Kearns makes 1.85 million this year and is arb eligible next year, so he'll make what, maybe 2.75 next year? Same deal with Lopez, he makes 2.7 this year so he'lll make maybe 3.7 next year? You're going to have to replace the corpse of Royce Clayton with someone else at SS next year, which will cut into your savings considerably.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 14, 2006 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

arb eligible...
... i would think that Kearns would get more than 2.7 mill. Lopez would certainly get more than 3.5.

even still, you could look at this sort of the like the Nomar-for-Cabrera deal the Red Sox made a few years back. before the trade, they were a pretty good team. after the trade, they became World Series champions.

i'm not saying the Reds are now a World Series team. what i am saying is that they trading from their strength (offense) to improve their weaknesses (defense and pitching).

the prospects they got could be packaged in another trade or kept. the money they saved could be spent now in a big trade or in the off-season in a blockbuster move. they've already got a young SS (Castro) that they seem to like. they've got a couple of good replacement OFs (Dinofrio and Freel) that weren't getting enough playing time. it makes sense.

i still think that Nats got the better players. and it was the right deal for them to make. but i think this could end up being a savvy move for the Reds. maybe.

by kindred on Jul 14, 2006 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, except that...
The relievers they brought in aren't all that good.

If they traded those two for a group of good to very good relievers that'd be one thing, but I just don't see it.

The relievers aren't terrible, and they ARE an upgrade, I'm just not sure how much of one.

by whopperman on Jul 14, 2006 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

bill bray might be good
he's a former 1st-round pick who leaped through the system in 2 years, got to the majors at age 23 and is holding his own. he could be closer material.

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Wagner redux...
Ryan Wagner, included in this deal, was also selected in the first round of the draft (2003), also made it to the majors in two years. Swapping him for Bill Bray seems to cancel each other out, wouldn't you say?

by taiko on Jul 14, 2006 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you might say that
if you only compare their biographies without looking at actual performance.

wagner can't throw strikes. even in the minors, his k/w ratio was only 2 to 1. bray's k/w in the minors was 4:1. he's holding his own so far in the big leagues, while wagner has pitched himself out of the majors.

other than that, they're a complete wash.

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Closer of the future"
It was the "closer of the future" line that grabbed me. Seems I remember Wagner being touted for that role in the past. And this year he was supplanted at the bridesmaid position by Todd Coffey. Now Coffey gets supplanted by Bray. Haven't paid close attention to their performance, though. Thanks for the numbers check.

by taiko on Jul 14, 2006 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's only a best-case scenario
of course. bray may end up being no better than coffey or wagner; he may end up being worse.

but i think krivsky's being bashed for giving up a vast amount of value in exchange for middle relief, and i'm just saying he got back more value than that --- at least, more potential value.

and i guess i'm discounting felipe lopez to some extent. he's really not that good; has only had one good season in the big leagues (last year), and that was at least partly fueled by his home park. put him in a neutral park -- or a pitcher-friendly park, like rfk, where his power numbers will be neutralized -- and i'm not sure he's much better than an average ss.

but because of arbitration, he's going to be paid a lot more than a position-average guy, moving forward. he's going to be a lousy value. so it's no real loss to the reds, imho.

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
It can be a plus if Freel and Denofira play more. The Reds had a surplus there. They become ALOT better defensively right away. Both in the OF and at SS. This should help the pitchers some.

I dont think its as big a fleecing as I originally thought. Good for both teams probably.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 14, 2006 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

re: lopez
uh, have you checked out lopez road splits? he is horrendous away from GAB. the one reds fans are more upset about losing is kearns since he hits well all around. wagner seems to be a bust. they got some good young relievers. an upgrade on defense at short stop and opened a spot for freel to get more playing time.

by lopey986 on Jul 14, 2006 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

My immediate thought...
was that the Reds will probably now pony up to obtain Julio Lugo from the D-Rays.  

by Brock20 on Jul 14, 2006 8:24 AM EDT reply actions  

The D-Rays
just moved BJ Upton to 3rd down on the farm, presumably so Lugo will be their SS for a while to come.

by cardsrul on Jul 14, 2006 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

its my understanding...
that Lugo is in his walk year.  I don't know if that is true, but I believe I've heard that a couple of places.  

by Brock20 on Jul 14, 2006 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stabs at the unkown....
I was thinking about the last line of the post about how the reds gave up the tolerable known for the potentially better unkown.  Like ya'know, thing types of deals are a lot about timing.  The Reds in this case are a few games back, with nothing to lose.  This is the perfect time for them to gamble.  The perfect time for the Birds to have done this was last off-season.  We could have easily have parted with one of the pitch to contact 4 in a risky trade.  This would have been viewed at the time as a "What do we have to lose?" kinda deal.  It would have been a good time to gamble.  THe season wasn't on the line yet, and if it did go astray, jock would have had time to recover during the year.  Alas, it has passed...

by BigJawnMize on Jul 14, 2006 9:05 AM EDT reply actions  

You got that right
Nailed it right on the sweet spot, IMO.
Baily

by Baily on Jul 14, 2006 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why bring in...
Perez before Baez? Did they want to have someone fresh for today? Managers should go for it in these types of games... Go with Baez to face Pujols and Rolen, then resort to Perez for Edmonds and beyond.

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

in the 14th, you're not "going for it"
at that point you've got to be prepared for a long game so you don't ruin one of your last pitcher's arms for weeks afterward. what they should've done is intentionally walked Pujols. Glad they didn't!

by effin fisk on Jul 14, 2006 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why would...
pitching to Pujols and Rolen ruin Baez's arm for weeks afterward?

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

IF
one uses Baez AT ALL in an extra-inning game, it MUST be at the start of an inning.  At that point, the only options Little had were Baez and Perez.  In the best-case scenario, the Dodgers get through the 14th and send the game into the 15th inning.  So, Little could have used Baez to pitch the 14th and 15th... but if the game was to last even longer than that, you're back to Perez as your last remaining pitcher.

Perez has been a starter, so he's the most logical choice to pitch multiple innings.  If you take out Perez and pitch Baez against Pujols, you're committing your closer for the rest of the game... no matter how long it takes.

Of course, that final pitch Perez threw reminded me of an Ian Dury and the Blockheads song:

"Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick!
     Hit me slowly, Hit me quick!
     HIT me! HIT me!
     HIIIIITTTTTTTT MMMMEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 14, 2006 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right...
I forgot Taguchi led off the inning. Still, Perez against Pujols and Rolen is suicide: they were 15 for 28 with 9 xtrabasehits... Baez in the 14th, then Perez might buy you a couple more innings to score...
Even Sele could have been an option. He doesn't pitch until the 17th. I suppose they had to go with Perez at some point though... The Dodgers are really in a bind with him. He's their Ponson except he's owed another $12 million.

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baez was sick
accoording to this article.

Aaron Sele (their other starter) was sent to the bullpen to prepare to pitch if and when Perez ran out of gas, but Peres was the only guy left.

Why they didn't just walk Pujols is beyond my comprehension.

by lawman3842 on Jul 14, 2006 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...
and that article says Perez is owed $16mil, not 12. Sounds like his attitude could get him shipped out soon. I'd take a flyer on him... He was quite good not too long ago.

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baez is nothing special
He was the closer in April, but lost the job after four consecutive blown saves to Takashi Saito. Granted, Albert may not "own" Baez like he does Odalis, but Odalis had posted a 2.25 ERA in relief before that bomb.

Using Baez over Perez there wouldn't be "going for it" by any means. Just swapping one unhappy pitcher for another.

Speaking of unhappy, did anyone read Odalis's rant after the game? "I've been treated like trash," he says. Also, he says that Pujols hit ball four over the wall for that homer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518866

by taiko on Jul 14, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goold Mulder Post
On Derrick Goold's Birdland blog for the P-D site, he has this post on Mulder in which he reports, "Mulder, recovering from shoulder impingement syndrome, met with team doctor George Paletta on Thursday, and based on the comfort he showed in that checkup the lefty will begin a long toss program today that will evolve into light mound workouts by the end of this home stand."

You can read the whole thing--which I recommend doing--at:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2006/07/mulder-update-mound-bound/

by bgh on Jul 14, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Interesting
though I disagree strongly with A-Rod being on the 'most overpaid' list, especially if Manny Ramirez isn't there.  He is being paid exactly the market rate for a Gold Glove SS with speed that hits 50 homers and 140 RBI a year.

I'm not saying that the Cardinals should go and get him, but the dollar value of his absurd production is the reason that the Cardinals can never afford players like him.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I may get hit with rocks but...
....when you are the best all-around player of your generation (ARod), I'm not sure that you can ever be 'overpaid'.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2006 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummmm......
yeah...he was overpaid down here in dallas (arlington).  $225 million ($25 per) is overpaid.  period.

but i will agree with you, with a qualification, that pay-rod is the best ball player, not named albert pujols, of his generation.

by busch league on Jul 14, 2006 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

My main complaint is
If A-Rod is overpaid, then Manny Ramirez is overpaid.  A-Rod is clearly superior to Manny, and their pay is roughly similar.    You can't have one guy on the list and not the other.  And not to mention the guys he's grouped with are aging superstars undergoing steep decline.  

Another way of putting it is:  Is A-Rod worth five Juan Encarnacions?  A team of A-Rod and four guys making the league minimum would probably beat a team of five Juans.  

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heck
a team of a-rod and 5 hs all stars would likely beat the 5 juans.

by sdesserman on Jul 14, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquis
I realize Im a Jason apologist but the guy has been pitching better lately. I like the use of the curve, gives him a strikeout pitch occasionally.

Did a quick look of his numbers. If it weren't for those darned AL teams he would be having a solid year. Numbers versus non-devil AL Central squads.

11-6, 3.61 ERA, 1.34 WHIP

I mean, thats liveable right? Honestly, Marquis is the least of our worries, IMO.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 14, 2006 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

when he only walks
2 guys in 8 innings, i'm a believer. he's shown that he can sustain his success as long as he's hitting the strike zone.

he's just got to do that for more than 5 starts at a time. maybe this will be the time it finally sticks . . . .

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

control is the key
you hit the nail on the head Lboros. I'm a big Marquis backer, but the guy isn't good enough to be able to walk 5 a game and get away with it. If he can post a 2-1 k/bb ratio (shouldn't be too hard), he can be successful.

When does Weaver pitch!? I'm excited to see that.

Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 14, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beano, yer numbers are fuzzy
I couldn't believe that Marquis had been that good this year, if you remove his AL starts...

Andf he hasn't had that good of a year....

To arrive at the 3.61 figure, you apparently subtracted all the earned runs Marquis allowed in his 18 innings vs. the AL, and instead, substituted 18 shutout innings, lowering his era from 5.34 to 3.61.

But the right way to do it is to remove both the IP and the ER, which puts Marquis at 4.21. Not bad, but if you tale any crappy starter in the league and renove three bad starts, almost every one will have a decent-looking ERA.

by salvomania on Jul 14, 2006 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

correct
Sorry about that. I realize that. I did it quickly.

Im still saying, those numbers arent awful. As Ive said before, I dont think hes as bad as many on here think, and probably not as good as I think.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 14, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Marquis as a No. 4 starter...
...who has the potential to move up to a No. 3 starter if he can harness his emotions and his talent. Not to mention keeping that sinker working consistently. Dare I say he has the potential to one day be a No. 2 starter? Not sure about that one. I still think Cards needs to come up with a rock solid No. 2 starter for 2007(I'm assuming Mulder is a goner and not so sure he's a No. 2 anymore anyways) and see Reyes and Mulder fighting for the No. 3 rotation spot (the lesser pitcher falls to the 4-spot) and Wainwright and Weaver fighting for the No. 5 spot. Odd man out goes to long relief or traded.  
Baily

by Baily on Jul 14, 2006 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Juan's Sore Wrist
Funny sentence in the P-D's write-up on Encarnacion's sore wrist:

"Right fielder Juan Encarnacion was not in the starting lineup Thursday as he continues to rest a sore left wrist. Encarnacion injured the wrist on a swing several weeks ago and has played through the ache, batting .220 over his last 10 games. Trainer Barry Weinberg said the wrist hurts him most on a bad or awkward swing."

So, um, does that mean it hurts him most on about 90% of his swings?

Link:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/92EFA9BAE1F6FA18862571AB0019A190 ?OpenDocument

by bgh on Jul 14, 2006 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Terry Evans update 7/14
Check out his stats with Arkansas since the deal.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Terry%20Evans&pos=OF&sid=milb& amp;t=p_pbp&pid=458000

He may never stop hitting :).

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 14, 2006 10:56 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah, but he is 24
His career is practically over ;)

by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds trade...
I'm with you lboros. The Reds trade is not as bad as it appears with the following caveats; Reds make another trade with the prospects they received and Majewski and Bray help to solidify a horrible bullpen.

I'm not sure why people are so down on this deal. Everyone wanted more, like Soriano or Guillen. Soriano would have been great but the Reds need pitching. Guillen is overrated and he is a head case  - already played for 7 teams in his 10 year career and heading out of Washington.

Also, Majewski & Bray are not that bad. They are young guys with decent arms. Majewski is 26, Bray is 23. They could continue to develop if they learn to pitch in the band-box that is Great America Ballpark.

by jdubya on Jul 14, 2006 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

GAB
I dont have the numbers to back it up, but I've heard on numerous occasions that GAB is not nearly the hitters park that people continue to talk about. Its almost become an urban myth.

Its not a pitchers park by any means, but the numbers haven't proven that it is awful place to pitch. Hopefully I can find some data to back this up.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 14, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah
I always thought that park factors were kinda screwy--the only real way to do it would be to compare JUST the home team's away performance to it's home performance, as the away team is always facing the home team's pitching and always pitching to the home team, and thus the away performances are always skewed and shoudln't be weighted equally.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

And with the Reds of the near past in particular,
one would see why it would seem even more of a super-hitter's park, since they had a million sluggers and horrendously bad pitchers.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

According to this site...
http://www.hittrackeronline.com

GAB has the most homers of any stadium in the NL. I'm not sure how many games have been played but GAB leads by a large margin over #2 Minute Maid (another band-box).

GAB - 138
Minute Maid - 121
Citizens - 114
Miller Park - 110
Turner Field - 108

Not the most scientific (number of games, home vs road, etc) but gives a snapshot.
This site has last nights HRs for the Cards, so it's up-to-date.

by jdubya on Jul 14, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coors field
The humidor must be working... Coors doesn't even crack the top 5, which is almost unthinkable.

by taiko on Jul 14, 2006 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's my point
the raw number of HR hit says more about the Reds than it does about the park--you can see a TON of variance in number of BB allowed by park, too.  Noone would choose to attribute that to the ballpark, though.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds Team splits since 2003
accoring to Day-by-Day Database

Home: 286 G, 386 HR, .257/.335/.436
Away: 290 G, 342 HR, .251/.329/.416

by Just Rope Ball on Jul 14, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

And there ya go
They are better at home, indicating a hitters' park, but not WAAAAY better

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

so since no one has said it
ensberg to the DL...i think that takes away some from the huff trade..struggling or not ensberg is still good.

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

so i wonder
how long it will take for someone to be negative about Alberts home run actions today? It wasnt even close to what edmonds did in the 7th but somone will complain oh yes someone will

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

well
He could have hit it in the 9th and saved the bullpen ...

by dontEATnachos on Jul 14, 2006 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish Albert
didn't have the kind of home run actions he showed last night.

by salvomania on Jul 14, 2006 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

link?
i've ready about the celebration, but i can't find a link anywhere to view it.  

i'm assuming you are referring to him running from the mob at home rather than his typical bat flip.  honestly...neither of which bother me.  

by busch league on Jul 14, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought
El Hombre and the boys were chasing "birthday boy" Yadier Molina after Pu touched home plate.

On the HR, he just tossed the bat, put his head down, and ran around the bases.  I didn't think he watched that bomb for any unusual length of time.

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 14, 2006 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

read
should say that i've READ about the celebration.  not i've READY about the celebration.  

sorr.

by busch league on Jul 14, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh i wasnt
bothered, but people on here sometimes analize the guys every move...like did you see how he did that thng in the seventh in that one game..no class...like the PItt thing way way overdone.

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You may remember
that PUjols himself said the thing in Pittsburg was overdone and apologized for it.

by sdrone on Jul 14, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes i
know he did, thats not what im reacting too...like it or not people pick at the guy, and i thought people picked at his bat flip way too much..apology or not...the guy can tget mad..angry? anyway my post this morning was sarcasm, but i figured someone would say something about last night..he looked too long lingured too long..etc

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he want's to
take a step and flex his muscles (Mr. Universe Style) after he hits a game winning homerun off of perez.  I wouldn't care.  What will people say?  He is showing up Perez?!?  

He shows up perez just by getting in the box against him.  he could take a Home Equity Line of Credit out on perez!  he owns him.

by Schnake on Jul 14, 2006 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice
funny...you almost buy into perez's what did i do wrong thing on ESPN...by little putting him out there knowing the matchups you wonder

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I miss something?
What was so gratuitous about last nite's walk-off? I was watching the game and thought the game of tag was neat, but I guess I did secretly worry about the chance of injury.

Didn't want to see him go all Gramatica or something.

by 26thMan on Jul 14, 2006 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh no......
quote on the boards of my yahoo fantasy league...

"Jim Molony, of MLB.com, reports the St. Louis Cardinals recently scouted Washington Nationals 2B Jose Vidro."

surely not.  i mean....surely not.  there's no way.  right?  please say i'm right.  please.

or at least tell me that it could be part of a package deal.  like we give the nats a handful of average 2 sackers, an average arm and a good young arm for soriano and vidro.  (i just made that last part up.)

by busch league on Jul 14, 2006 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Thinking it would be a pacage deal
Something like this.

Cards get
Hernadez and Vidro

for

Nats

4 prospects
Worrell
Pomranz
Skip Shumacher
Carmen Cali

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 14, 2006 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's Livan making?
I've pitched the Vidro idea a few times.  Livan worries me as he has thrown a lot of innings the past three years.  He seems to get tired down the stretch.  

by Brock20 on Jul 14, 2006 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's not exactly a Cy candidate this year either..
5.94 ERA, 66 K/48 BB and 143 Hits in 113.6 IP, with 18 HR on top of that.

In a pitcher's park.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers..
Slightly OT, and maybe I'm a bit slow, but I just noticed that we'll have 6 starting pitchers sometime in august. What are the odds of someone like Suppan being thrown into any of our prospective trade deals? Or if someone got booted from the rotation and into the pen, who would it be?

by Birds on the Matt on Jul 14, 2006 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Keith Law of Scouts Inc on ESPN
put this up re: the Cardinals needs.  I realize we have problems but man is he over the top in dismissing our lineup.

"St. Louis Cardinals

Starters needed: Three, and that's assuming Anthony Reyes keeps up his solid early work.
The Cardinals are a mess. It's hard to see this team within sniffing distance of .500 if it played in the AL East or Central divisions. The entire offense is wrapped up in three players (Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds), and the team is locked into suffocating contracts with nonproductive hitters in right field and at shortstop. Manager Tony La Russa still regularly benches his one good second baseman, Hector Luna, further handicapping the team's offense. Left field is the easiest upgrade here, in part because the players St. Louis has run out there -- mainly So Taguchi and John Rodriguez -- are so bad.

The rotation is in worse shape than the offense, which can at least still score runs due to the three monsters in the heart of the lineup. Chris Carpenter is having another All-Star caliber season, and Reyes is off to a good start. Jason Marquis has the next-lowest ERA among starters at 5.55, exactly a full run worse than the league's ERA of 4.55. Mark Mulder could come back from his shoulder problem, but is that even a good thing? Adam Wainwright could be the Cardinals' Aaron Heilman, filling a role but not filling the need for a No. 2 or No. 3 starter. "

by dccardsfan on Jul 14, 2006 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

This was linked yesterday...
and this Law sounds like a blowhard.  
However, can't say I completely disagree with the "It's hard to see this team within sniffing distance of .500 if it played in the AL East or Central divisions." comment.  
"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Jul 14, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keith Law is an idiot...
Another guy who doesn't know what he is talking about. Taguchi is bad? Really. He is a 4th OF. He is not a starter but he is a good 4th OF. He is hitting .292 with a .359 OBP. He plays excellent defense.

What happens if our starters turn it around and pitch like they are capable? Marquis has already back-to-back quality starts. Suppan has not been good but I don't think he is done yet. What if Mulder comes back and is the old Mulder.

Will Keith Law eat his words? No, because ESPN is paying him to be a big mouth. Nuff said.

I keep remembering Andy Benes in 2002. I was at Bank One ballpark on April 15, 2002. Andy gave up 8 runs (or something) in a couple of innings and the Cards lost 14-5. I thought he was done. Low and behold, the Cards acquired Chuck Finley and he showed Andy a new pitch and Benes was one of the best pitchers for the Cards in the 2nd half.

Anything can happen. I don't think our rotation is that bad. We definitely need a solid #2 (hopefully that's Mulder). Let's see what they can do the 2nd half.

by jdubya on Jul 14, 2006 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't Forget...
Law was one of the big names early on in Baseball Prospectus's development -- and especially early on, BP was known for being snarky, over the top, etc.  I mean, they still are, but not quite to the extent they  used to.

by whopperman on Jul 14, 2006 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

CNNSI edited an article...
...from earlier today that repeated 3 times that the Cardinals had not hit a homerun in 10 games.  Which, was odd, since they talked about how Albert has hit game winning HRs in 2 of the last 3.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2006 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

not to mention
jrds,jimmy(afew times)rolen i think..those are all from the houston series and last night

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

ESPN.com article
I don't know if anyone saw this on the ESPN site, but they have broken down the 10 biggest contract busts since the end of the 2004 season. Unfortunately, the Cards have three of them that have played, currently play, or will play for us this season. Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2518991

by bsutherland on Jul 14, 2006 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

One is ours
Ponson is making $8.5M this season combined. It was ruled that the O's had to pay him. His STL contract is not the contract in question. The same can be said for Weaver. He has been overvalued for the last five years. The Angels are picking up some of his '06 tab.

As for Looper, well, I might declare it a toss-up between him and Rincon...

by bgh on Jul 14, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That article...
says his Baltimore contract was terminated, but that he's getting paid on it still. If so, he's getting paid by three different teams simultaneously. All the while stinking up the joint...

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Can't Be Right
He didn't win his arbitration, did he?  Otherwise, he can't get paid on a terminated contract, so why would he received $8.5 million?  Doesn't make sense.  In any event, the Cards definately only went in for, what was it, $1.5 on Ponson, right?  
So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jul 14, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somebody said...
he won his grievance against Baltimore.

Either way, I was always under the impression that if a released player signed elsewhere, his new contract replaced his old contract, but apparently the Yanks are only required to pay him league minimum for the rest of the season.  The article I read about it said that would be $150k-175k.  Ponson's base was only $1M, so that means by season's end, we'll have paid him about $825k-850k.  What I wonder though, is what happens to his contract incentives?  Is NY responsible for them, or do they go away?

by john vb on Jul 14, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have to clear waivers
before another team can sign them for the leauge min.  If the yanks had really, really wnted to sing him last week, they would have had to assume his entire contract.

by Valatan on Jul 14, 2006 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

from a legal perspective
he would have a new contract with the Yankees independent of his contract with the Cardinals.  I can't imagine the Cardinals having to pay any incentives he might acheive with another team that formed a new contract with him, unless there is some part of the CBA that requires this.
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Jul 14, 2006 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It will never happen but what if
What if players got paid for what they actually did on the field?  Its really a simple concept.  Everyone starts with a base pay and earn bonuses as they produce on the field.  Stats such as HR, RBI, Strikeouts, Wins, Stolen Bases, Walks, Saves, Total Bases would pay out as they reach the bonus numbers like 30 HRs get you X amount of dollars, 40 gets another X amount of dollars.  Season stats like ERA, Fielding %, Slugging % and Batting average would pay out at the end of the year.  You could also have bonuses for making the All Star game, MVP, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, CY Award like they do now.  

Could you imagine how much better baseball would be if guys were actually earning their paychecks every game?  You would rarely have the problem of over paying for a player like you do now.  Free agents would still be a hot market but you could get a player by having signing bonuses so you still could over pay but it would be much less often.  You wouldnt be paying guys for what they have done but paying them for what they are doing.

Lonedawg I see the ball, I hit the ball.

by Lonedawg on Jul 14, 2006 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Idea
That's how it should be for all team sports.

by busch bird on Jul 14, 2006 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

so...
small-market teams would have to release players because they are playing too well?  That would definitely be an interesting way to arrange things.

by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2006 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...
They pretty much are.  They're just paid after their contributions a lot of times.

Remember, this cuts both ways.  Pujols made $1.7 million, COMBINED, from 2001 to 2003.

Now, he's getting paid for a combination of that and what he'll probably do in the future.

That's why it's so critical to have a strong farm system.  The first three years of MLB service, you tell the player how much he'll make, he cannot negotiate.  Then you get three more years of arbitration where you probably get him for less than the open market would give him.  And if you're smart about it -- like the Cardinals were, you can buy out the arbitration years and a couple of years of free agency with an extension.

by whopperman on Jul 14, 2006 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

nationals sign luis matos
since the nats are signing and trading for outfield help, you've got to think that guillen and/or alfonso soriano are as good as gone, right?
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Jul 14, 2006 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't call Matos
outfield "help."  Let's put it this way, he makes Bigbie look good in comparison.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 14, 2006 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

wasnt he
batting somewhere near the Mendoza line?..oh and maddux not having a good "interview" for teams today..unraveling in 4th

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

something
way off topic...Steve stone got the cubs game on ESPN today...i grew up in Central IL where your a cubs fan or cards fan...(hr 1/2 from stl) used to watch cubs games growing up since i just love baseball...i dont get WGN anymore since i moved away(WA now) but it was wrong when they got rid of him, and just seems right to hear him do a cubs game..

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Here's where
we part company on Stone. I never liked him, and if he's doing a Cards game, I'll mute the tv and turn on Shannon/Rooney.

by cardsrul on Jul 14, 2006 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

i didnt say i liked
him, but it never seemed right not having him do  a cubs game...for instance..you may not like the cards radio crew but some have been there so long it would seem weird to replace themIMO

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

we would all
agree that htis team is not as good as in the past. I think this si interesting..in the early season when D lee went down that was the reason for the cubs bad play(per media)

here is the cards list...i may have forgot some now this list may not be people who went to dl
Biggbie2x
Ponson..letf his magic on dl
Mulder
Pujols
Rincon
Carpenter
Edmonds dinged up early
Spezio
rolen
yadi

alot of those are key people..i think you have to take this into consideration when evaluating the cards this year..makes a huge difference

by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2006 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

The trade analog...
seems kind of rickety. King, the third man in the Drew-Marquis deal, was superior to Majewski b/c he was lights out against lefties, whereas Majewski is so-so against everyone. Wainwright was much more highly touted, if my memory serves, than Bray is now, and then you've got Marquis who was kind of an enigma. Kearns-Lopez might be roughly equivalent to Drew-Marrero.

Jocketty in '03 did better than Krivsky, but I think there might be some addition by subtraction going for the Reds. Especially if they can get Freel in the lineup more.

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

in value terms
king was worse than majewski. gary is still making the minimum wage and providing better-than-league-avg return for that. king got paid $2m one year and $2.5m the next; he was worth the money in '04 but definitely wasn't in '05.

wainwright was a more heralded prospect than any of the guys cincinnati got, i will agree with you there.

all the "experts" are bashing the trade -- baseball prospectus, hardball times, roto times etc etc -- so i should prob'y stop trying to defend it . . . . i just think people there are considerations that have been overlooked (chiefly the $$$$) that may, over time, balance out the deal somewhat. it's easy to bash krivsky, so people are lining up to take their shots. and if you strip the trade of context, it's obviously an imbalanced trade in the nats' favor. but placed within a broader context, i don't think it's so crazy.

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Matthew Leach
Called your take, LB, "intriguing"

http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/

I think he makes a good point that is just seems like the Reds could have gotten more.  I would think if they had just given up Lopez for Bray/Majewski this trade would seem more balanced.    

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jul 14, 2006 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

where is the market
for lopez? how many teams out there would upgrade their ss position by adding felipe? how many are not already committed to another player contractually? let's just look at the NL

stl has eckstein
brewers - jj hardy, better player
cubs - cedeno, younger cheaper better fielder
pirates - committed big $$$ to jack wilson
houston -- everett's a better value $$$wise

mets --- reyes
braves -- renteria
florida -- hanley ramirez
nats --- WE HAVE A WINNER
phillies -- rollins (long-term deal)

dodgers -- furcal
giants -- vizquel deal has another year to run
padres -- greene is a better player
arizona --- have stephen drew in minors
rockies -- could use him

so in the national league, that's only 2 or 3 teams that would really be improved by adding lopez --- and are in a position to do so. the situation is similar in the a.l. --- most teams either have an entrenched ss or are grooming one.

i think we're all overstating felipe lopez's value because he hit 24 hr last season, and not being realistic about his limitations as a player. the market for a player with those limitations is not very great.

by lboros on Jul 14, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're right...
... but the experts are looking at this trade in "objective" terms. in those terms, the Nats got better players.

in subjective ways the Reds might come out on top in this deal. they are going for a "BoSox '04" kind of move. no one would argue that Orlando Cabrera in 2004 was a better SS than Nomar, but the Sox had a surplus in offense, a shortage in defense, so they took the gamble. the Cards did the same thing before the season with the Drew deal. both were "pretty good" teams before that, but the impact of those deals propelled them to be the two best. it worked pretty well for them. it may not prove to be the best for the Reds, but that remains to be seen.

not only that, but the Reds have capable guys to replace the ones they gave up.

but the reason why it looks lopsided is because the Reds are taking a gamble. the Nats aren't. it could end up good for both, or may end up being a huge blunder. time will tell.

by kindred on Jul 14, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just off the AP wire:
"Reliever Esteban Yan was designated for assignment..."

Any trade that allows you to do that is defensible on some level.

by guayzimi on Jul 14, 2006 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

An Excellent Point
Nothing else needs to be said.
Baily

by Baily on Jul 14, 2006 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

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