greenie goblins
as far as i can tell, the regular media aren't touching yesterday's disclosures at deadspin re albert pujols' trainer. haven't found an article anywhere; checked the dailies in st louis, phoenix, and kansas city, and there's nothing in print. yet. but keith olbermann mentioned it on his tv news show last night, according to somebody over at bernie miklasz's forum, and they say dan patrick and olbermann -- without naming names, although they claim to have seen them -- were talking about how the (inevitable) leaking of the blacked-out names will "rock baseball."
how prominent of a player would have to be implicated, directly or indirectly, for baseball to be "rocked" by this scandal? i can only think of three: roger clemens. derek jeter. albert pujols. these are the only guys who transcend the sport -- are household names as joe dimaggio used to be -- and haven't already been linked to steroids.
but if deadspin's information is accurate -- and i believe that it is -- does that truly implicate albert as a steroid abuser? you'd have to be high on some pretty strong amphetamines to draw that conclusion, based on current information. all the affadavit says is that 'redacted' (presumably mihlfeld) -- and i'm now quoting from page 14 of the affadavit -- "once referred him [grimsley] to an amphetamine source." redacted probably shouldn't have done that, but let's put it into context. on page 12 of the affadavit, grimsley says that "until last year, Major League clubhouses had coffee pots labeled 'leaded' and 'unleaded' for the players, indicating coffee with amphetamines and without." until last year -- ie, through the 2004 season -- mihlfeld worked for grimsley's team, the kansas city royals. so if the statement about spiked coffee is accurate -- and it's right there in the affadavit, with no redactions -- then the royals were directly supplying amphetamines to grimsley and all the other guys in mihlfeld's clubhouse. the team was doing that -- mihlfeld's employer.
if his employer was openly supplying these drugs in the clubhouse to every player, why would mihlfeld hesitate to direct one player to other sources of amphetamines? why would he consider that an ethical breach of some kind? for that matter, why should we be surprised that mihlfeld knew where to send grimsley for greenies? somebody was supplying the royals' training staff with whatever they brewed into their "leaded" coffee.
if that's as far as it goes -- mihlfeld referred grimsley to a source who could provide amphetamines -- well whoooooop-de-doo. that don't prove nothin' -- not about chris mihlfeld, and certainly not about albert pujols.
but what if it goes farther than that?
what if we learn that mihlfeld routinely sent players to the same drug pusher he referred grimsley to -- that it was part of a pattern? what if we find out that greenie usage was an integral part of mihlfeld's training methods -- that he "prescribed" them, if you will, to enhance his clients' results? then it becomes considerably murkier. and if it should surface that grimsley was not the only mihlfeld client to use hgh, i will have a hard time believing that pujols is clean.
we don't know these things yet, so it's way too soon to accuse pujols of anything. but it's also too soon to say, with full confidence, that he has never taken hgh. i'm sure we'll learn a lot more about chris mihlfeld in the coming days and weeks -- and what we learn will either deflect suspicion away from albert, or intensify it.
may it be the former.
joe strauss claims the cardinals' trade talks are intensifying. wasn't that really, really important a couple days ago? yesterday morning? . . . it still is, and will soon return to the forefront of our thoughts. the sooner the better.
a final note: gateway redbirds has posted an interview with colby rasmus, using questions submitted by forum members.
0 recs |
114 comments
Comments
It's still too early
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pujols getting tested...
by lopey986 on Jun 9, 2006 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds, or Redlegs?
I talked about this at the end of the last post, but doesn't this smell like the communist witch hunt? Anytime somebody has "links" to somebody else that "knows" a drug supplier, they are guilty in the court of public opinion. They are now under strong suspicion of using illegal performance enhancing drugs. Really? We can make that leap?
Seriously folks, this is getting out of hand. I respect your opinion tremendously lboros, but you're feeding the monster right now. Let it die unless there is some actual proof.
P.S. For those of you that don't know, the Reds changed their name to the Redlegs for a while due to communist scare of the 50's.
by MRCARD on Jun 9, 2006 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see your point
taking hgh is neither legal nor constitutionally protected.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legalily
P.S. The whole argument against people that had a communist connection is that they were spying on the government (treason). That is a much worse crime than taking HGH.
by MRCARD on Jun 9, 2006 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's still no comparison
whereas in this case, even guilty parties continue to ply their trade. no innocent party has been significantly harmed, as far as i can tell --- beyond having unflattering things said and whispered about them. but who (that is innocent) has lost work because of mere suspicion? who has been shunned by their community? how many guys have been hauled before congress and forced to testify?
that's what happened in the mccarthy era -- and it wasn't about rooting out spies (altho that's what mccarthy claimed), it was about intimidating people with certain political leanings.
i just don't think the analogy holds
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it was
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if...
Don't you think that's like the many actors in Hollywood that couldn't find work after they were "implicated"? Maybe it's not a perfect analogy, but I definitely think you can see a corollation.
by MRCARD on Jun 9, 2006 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if mihlfeld is cleared
sort of like the todd helton thing from last year. wayne hagin specifically named his as a steroid user ---- helton vigorously denied using, and hagin had to backpedal like crazy. last i heard, no harm to helton; on the contrary, he's widely regarded as beyond suspicion.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree lboros....
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1996 Atlanta
by flynn on Jun 9, 2006 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no comparison
that hasn't happened to mihlfeld.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure there's a comparison
Jewell was initially tabbed as a villian on information and belief, was dissected ad nasuem by the press, and then had his claims of innocence vindicated when the truth was revealed.
Mihlfeld, so far, has been tabbed as a bad guy on the basis of an unidentified source claiming to know what's behind a black smear on an affidavit, and has been discussed at great length in the blogworld. Hopefully, his claims of innocence will be vindicated when (if?) the truth is revealed.
The severity of their charges differ, but their positions immediately after their names were dragged into the middle of an unfortunate event- guilty in the court of public opinion - are the same.
I'm just echoing what most are saying here: let's see some proof before we start convicting anyone.
by flynn on Jun 9, 2006 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, i and about
he has had defenders elsewhere as well.
i still don't think there's any comparison between what happened jewell and what happened to mihlfeld. here's what would be analogous: the feds stage a raid of mihlfeld's shop, and the 6 o'clock news is full of footage of white-gloved agents carrying "evidence" away from the "crime scene." copies of the warrants are publicized, full of inaccurate information about mihlfeld's activities. a grand jury is convened to indict mihlfeld . . . .
that would be analogous. what happened to jewell was on a scale that materially changed his life circumstances. (ditto that scientist down at los alamos, can't think of his name . . . . wei?)
whereas, if mihlfeld turns out not to be mr 'redacted,' this will blow over and he'll go on training athletes just as he did before his name ever came up.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I said.
I never claimed that Mihlfeld had to deal with what Jewell went through exactly, or that the magnitude of what he was purportedly involved in was the same. You did. I used Jewell as my comparison because I hope Mihlfeld, like Jewell, will go down as a person initially charged with somehting only to eventually have his name cleared. Comparisons can be made between disparate people who have only certain things in common. You just limit your comparison to certain things, which is what I did when I spelled it all out. Hopefully, most people caught my drift.
by flynn on Jun 9, 2006 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are saying
and i'm saying the experiences of these two men are not comparable at all. what chris mihlfeld is experiencing is not at all comparable to what richard jewell is experiencing. it is comparable to what todd helton experienced.
for that matter, we don't even know if mihlfeld is falsely accused. he says his name isn't in the report; we'll find out sooner or later if he's telling the truth.
by lboros on Jun 10, 2006 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
excuse me,
as long as back in here, more hot air: the severity of the charges isn't the distinction i'm drawing. what makes these two cases different is the authority of the accuser. mihlfeld has been accused by a website that has no legal standing, and only a modest standing in the court of public opinion; jewell was accused by the f-b-freakin-i, which had the power to seize his property, compel the testimony of his family and friends, and initiate a prosecution that might lead to jewell's being put in jail for years and years.
that's why i don't think you can compare them. mihlfeld is a suspect in the court of public opinion; jewell was a suspect in the actual court system. big difference.
by lboros on Jun 10, 2006 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all I'm saying is...
Yes. And that's all I'm saying. I thought I qualified that by the disclaimers of "not under the same microscope" and "not the same severity." You keep going beyond what I'm saying in order to ridicule my comparison.
by flynn on Jun 10, 2006 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not trying to ridicule the comparison
i disagree with those comparisons, and i think they are faulty. that's not ridicule, it's just a diff'nce of opinion.
i've already explained why your disclaimers (viz "less severe" and "not under same microscope") don't wash with me. no need to repeat myself. but i'm not reading too much into what you said; "richard jewell" carries very specific connotations, and if you didn't mean to invoke them then you shouldn't have brought up his name.
by lboros on Jun 11, 2006 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point but...
I'm also not sure how Helton has come off better by being implicated. I don't see any new endorsements coming his way and he went through a lot of crap. I doubt if HE would say that he's better off. The only thing that has happened is that the speculation has died down. Maybe in some people's minds they think he was exhonerated, but I bet you there are other people that think Hagin just didn't have any proof and that he's guilty. Every time the Cards play the Rockies and Hagen is around it gets brought up again.
by MRCARD on Jun 9, 2006 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i live in denver
if i could have all that at the cost of somebody occasionally whispering that i was a cheater, i would grab it in a heartbeat
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well aware of the Redlegs,
by bgh on Jun 9, 2006 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said MRCARD
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of the Reds
Lets all hope that Albert is clean and can join Griffey in that truly elite status.
by Columbus Jets on Jun 9, 2006 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh come on
by PGeorge on Jun 9, 2006 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
alex rodriguez
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ethics
however, even if he did only refer Grimsley, it does mean that he recommended to one of his clients using substances such as HGH to enhance his results.
I have no idea what kind of code of ethics governs athletic trainers, but i can't imagine that recommending harmful substances is an ethically sound practice for an athletic trainer.
I said it earlier today, Albert needs to drop this guy if it does in fact come out that he connected Grimsley to a pusher. ties with that will easily lead to instant assumptions and he'll be forever guilty in the eyes of the public
by VanRam on Jun 9, 2006 9:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but there's no evidence
if we call out mihlfeld, then there are probably a lot of head trainers for big-league clubs who have at least as much to answer for . . .
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
it also brings up another question, why would Mihlfeld suggest another source for amphetamines if the club was providing it? The first rule of drug use is to get it where you can in the easiest, least risky way. (we all know finding speed in Jackson County, MO isn't a difficult proposition.)
So, no, it's not particularly alarming, but it is still unethical and VERY suspicious.
if the trainers are key links in the supply of drugs to ball players, then go after them.
I still think that when/if Mihlfeld's name comes out that AP will have to dump him. Look at all the speculation about AP now, can you imagine what will happen if he's still connected to this guy?
Look at it this way, Tom Delay is a good friend to lots of schmucks on capitol hill, but because he's so tied to scandal the other elected bozos have to distance themselves from a know crook, even when that known crook is a good friend and even better fund raiser.
by VanRam on Jun 9, 2006 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is suspicious, no doubt
i need to see evidence of a pattern of HGH (or other steroid) use among his clients before i conclude that mihlfeld knowingly helped grimsley obtain HGH.
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, the guy has to make a living
by sdrone on Jun 9, 2006 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greenies
Now, HGH is a whole 'nother story. IF (big IF) Albert were to be implicated as an HGH user, it could very well ruin baseball for me. The next couple weeks this story will definately heat up and we will find out some names and once someone questions Albert about his trainer we will get his side of the story. Should be interesting.
by lopey986 on Jun 9, 2006 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Too early to worry
Living in Phoenix, we get a lot of information on this ordeal. A local news station here did an interview with Lance Williams (co-author of Game of Shadows), and he said that most of the names come from the Orioles team that Grimsley played with. Another name that would "rock baseball" would be Cal Ripken, wouldn't it? I believe that Grimsley played with him, but then again I could be wrong.
by BigdJC on Jun 9, 2006 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mihlfield
by dmb60614 on Jun 9, 2006 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very interesting
Not definitive, but certainly another reason to suspend judgment.
by DCGreg on Jun 9, 2006 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i
To me its like deffending a friend..albert says he's clean i support him..if that friend lie you at least support them until the bitter end..And i have been wrong when people lied to me...just my opinion
by punchinjudy on Jun 9, 2006 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"no solid proof on bonds"?
Unknowingly or not, there's your Bonds proof.
by 26thMan on Jun 9, 2006 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, ripken
but he did play on the yankees when they were in the midst of their world champ'ship run. jeter, clemens, mussina, rivera . . . .
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Pujols Clean?
I am hoping that he is clean. I want to believe that he is clean but I will not be naive about this and blatantly trump his innocence before knowing all the facts.
I do know that the court of public opinion has already begun. I live in NY. If Chris Mihlfeld is implicated in the affidavit and people in NY hear of the connection between Mihlfeld and Pujols, most people will accuse him of using. This is not fair but it's a fact of life. Human nature at it's worst. Of course, if it was Derek Jeter's personal trainer then he would be clean because he is Derek Jeter and he is a Yankee and he can do no wrong.
The problem is that we are now seeing that performance enhancing drugs have been and maybe continue to be prevalent in MLB. Because of this, everyone will be guilty until proven innocent. A couple of weeks ago, Trevor Hoffman had an interesting quote in the San Diego Union-Trib: "Can people trust again?"
Here is the quote:
"Maybe he's being unfairly judged because of what's gone on," says Padres closer Trevor Hoffman, who often has spoken out against drugs. "Too much has gone on now to have that trust. Obviously, you have to look at his division (the NL Central) and that every ballpark is a joke and he's getting pitched to. And he's in the prime of his life (26). He's not doing it at 35.
"I know Albert made that comment about seeing the ball and hitting the ball, but we have guys taking 40 home run seasons into 60 home run seasons. Until you find out what's inside a particular animal, you can't pass judgment, but your eyes don't deceive you. The quick answer is not going to come. Can people trust again? It's nice to have a policy in place, but I don't know if we can get the trust back with this policy. Let's start taking blood and tissue samples."
by jdubya on Jun 9, 2006 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but if pitchers around the league...
by gthedamned on Jun 9, 2006 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I think you are all over looking
by BigMac545 on Jun 9, 2006 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes, but grimsley
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the
He technically didn't ask for an HGH/roids course, and redacted technically didn't provide him with a source for those things. the trick is whether or not he made this referral knowing that Grimsley could get those extras. question for the lawyers out there, isn't this called plausible deniability or something like that?
by VanRam on Jun 9, 2006 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don't disagree
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
still, what nasty situation all of this is.
side note: check out King Kaufman's column at Salon from yesterday for really good perspective on this Grimsley/drugs in baseball mess.
http://www.salon.com/sports/col/kaufman/2006/06/08/thursday/index.html
by VanRam on Jun 9, 2006 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Referral
We don't really know the situation. And we can spend all our time trying to divine the names from the affadavit but we still don't know for sure.
After arguing that there is some implicit guilt most of yesterday, I can certainly see the doubt now (after a nights sleep on it).
by dontEATnachos on Jun 9, 2006 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont want to admit it but...
by BigMac545 on Jun 9, 2006 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but...
by BigMac545 on Jun 9, 2006 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the affidavit
The point is, these affidavits are carefully worded to be as broad and inclusive as possible, while still being truthful testimony. The fact that information is not included is important. We should not assume anything that is not in the affidavit (and in some respects, it actually suggests that information not included is not true, or else it would have been included).
by Westy on Jun 9, 2006 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What needs to happen...
The questions are going to come and that is going to make the story credible for mainstream media. However, if the Cardinals get out there and put all the information they can out to clear Albert's name, then they can save his reputation. Otherwise, once this hits the local news around the country, Albert Pujols (the future of baseball) will be nothing but the butt of jokes.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2006 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we saw what happened the last time Albert got
-SIGH- His career numbers have not had the dramatic changes of other performance enhancers. He has that going for him.
by Schnake on Jun 9, 2006 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
by rockin redbird on Jun 9, 2006 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the distinction is that
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Colin Cowherd
He has been fairly balanced on how this implicates Pujols.
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mulder
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what I thought too
by secretweapon on Jun 9, 2006 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the site changed
as of last night, mulder had resumed his normal spot in the rotation.
all of this suggests a health issue --- they weren't sure he'd be ready to go, then they thought he'd be ready to go with some extra rest, and ultimately he must have responded well enough to his treatment (all legal, pretty please???) to be in shape for his normal turn.
that's how i read it
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still fail to see
by rockin redbird on Jun 9, 2006 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post
by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 9, 2006 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks redbird
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Idolatry
Which is why I get so exasperated with this city's worship of its baseball team. I love the Cardinals and I want so see them win, but the Cardinals are not a proxy for the worth of the city. The fans should stop treating its baseball players like roman gods.
It's really astonishing - and sad -- that a city would derive so much of its self-worth from a babeball team.
It's idolatry pure and simple. We can't acknowledge any wrongdoing because - somehow -- that would mean St. Louis is not a good place.
It's ridiculous.
by lerwin1 on Jun 9, 2006 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
by rockin redbird on Jun 9, 2006 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair Enough
by lerwin1 on Jun 9, 2006 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I beg to differ
I disagree. I have lived in serveral cities and spent considerable time in many more and I can say with conviction that there are very few professional sports franchises that are as embedded in the identity of a city as the Cardinals are in St. Louis. What if they were to leave? Consider that.
St. Louis is most assuredly not "big time," which is why people so strongly identify with the team. The city is not "world class" like New York, San Francisco, or Chicago and, although a tremendous place to grow up and live, does not have a national "identity" like cities such as Seattle, Santa Fe, and Miami. What it does have, though, is the Cardinals.
The Cardinals are most assuredly "big time" in MLB. They have a tradition second only to the Yankees, and are currently very much a marquee team. So, of course people are going to flock like lemmings to them. It's our chance to be big time, to associate with a winner, to have a chance to "beat" larger, more famous and popular cities. The best analogy I can think of is the Green Bay Packers or the old Bud Wilkenson OU Sooners - (we may be small and podunk, but we'll beat your ass on the field.)
I'm not pretending to know what you mean by "the worth of the city." Perhaps I'm way off. I just think its awfully hard to fault people for treating the Cardinals "like Roman gods," when those players are, in a lot of people's minds, the ambassadors of this inferiority-complex-ridden city, which I happen to love. (And no, I'm not implying you don't love STL, and I don't care if you don't.)
by flynn on Jun 9, 2006 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greenies and Pujols
There is a whole different leap, though, to translate that to "Pujols is taking HGH," becuase despite what schedule the DEA places these drugs on, there is a qualitative difference between the two.
But what trap does this place Pujols in? He comes out and says, look, all these HGH rumors are silly. The next question, though, is about greenies, and if he did (along with everyone else in baseball) use them at one time or another, what does he say?
by knieriemd on Jun 9, 2006 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he says nothing
"i took them, but i didn't gain any competitive advantage because everyone took them. not just 10 or 20 percent of the players; 80 or 90 percent. and the stuff was supplied to me by my team. the manager knew about it; the gm knew; the owner knew. it was an accepted, normal part of our sport. when my sport banned it, and my team stopped providing these drugs in the clubhouse, then i stopped using them."
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he did them--
by rockin redbird on Jun 9, 2006 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would a bat have helped?
9 IP, 10 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 6 SO, 6 BB, 1 HR
In Game 2 vs. the Reds:
9 IP, 15 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 7 SO, 4 BB, 2 HR
Game 1:
9 IP, 13 H, 8 R, 8 ER, 4 BB, 3 SO, 2 HR
I know that the offense was not excellent, but our pitching was rather poor. If we get the pitching, I think that we have enough offense to weather the Missing Pujols Storm. The problem with that is how poorly our pitchers have performed as of late. Even with Pujols in the lineup, how much difference would he have been when the Reds get 38 hits and 22 runs in a three-game series?
by bgh on Jun 9, 2006 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Lord.....
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not arguing guilt
We're trying to figure out IF this ends up coming out what implications does it really have on Pujols. We're not saying he's guilty of anything we're just trying to get a handle on what it would actually mean.
by dontEATnachos on Jun 9, 2006 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
by MRCARD on Jun 9, 2006 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
deadspin update
Here's hoping for that 20 percent from his source when he's wrong.
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Deja Vu For Some
Yesterday that one Mets guy was saying that AP getting busted with steroids would have been good for baseball. Why? Because then they'd actually have to get more serious, this 'savior' that they're using to get everyone to forget about the steroids mess would be gone and fans would demand action. While he may have been trolling some, I think that in there was at least point with some shred of validity.
I'm not saying that I want AP to get busted, quite the contrary. But I can understand why we still have doubt about his drug use with the system we have in place. Look at how MLB handled the Palmeiro thing last year, they let him appeal, appeal, appeal and all of it was kept extremely private.
Sure we'd like to believe Pujols, just like we all wanted to believe McGwire. But in an industry where so much money is at stake, it seems like we're never going to get these smoking guns that prompt the kind of necesary action. Fans for every team will hide behind the plausible deniability of steroid use when a better system could make it so this isn't even a factor.
So while I sincerely hope Pujols isn't guilty and I'll give continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. I am certain that in the unlikely event that something does come out I don't want to end up like those Bonds defenders with my fingers in my ears yelling 'lalalalalala' and trying to avoid the truth.
Maybe some of the negative reaction by some here is the fear that we could end up like that. I don't know.
by dontEATnachos on Jun 9, 2006 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mizzou
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i can't find it
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
It seems to me that as a recent first round draft pick he will be extra careful.
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is a good clip from that article
"But right now, truth has little to do with this. The rumors are running.
And the story has taken on a life of its own."
by punchinjudy on Jun 9, 2006 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not upset with SI
by Schnake on Jun 9, 2006 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"story has taken on a life of its own."
There needs to be accountablity for stuff like this. At least publicize the names of the anonymous sources so that people know they can't lie and get away with it.
by SleepyCA on Jun 9, 2006 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
scruples
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure...
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he means Keith Olbermann who
by Schnake on Jun 9, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard that
by lboros on Jun 9, 2006 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, i sort of meant deadspin
Sticking a caveat on that says "I hope this isn't true" does not make it any better. Deadspin chose to say something that was probably not true, and that is not right. Maybe it was unintentional, maybe the dude just got carried away, maybe it was poorly written and he didn't mean to say what he said, but it was NOT right to report on this the way it was reported on.
Of course what goes for deadspin goes x100 for SI or ESPN or whoever that olbermann dude is (I don't have time to watch tv).
by SleepyCA on Jun 9, 2006 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Olbermann is...
That would be scary:
"Today, Dem/Rep majority blah blah blah, came under heat, but the opposition was cool as the other side of the pillow... blah blah."
p.s. I agree with you about the accusations via their "source" and if the source is wrong, his ass should get flogged in public on these blogs. I think they owe it to Mihlfield and Pujols, and the fans to reveal this supposed source if he's got his head up his ass on this one.
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols on ESPN Pod Cast
by BigMac545 on Jun 9, 2006 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Arizona Republic comments on the allegations
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0609grimsley0609.html
It's the usual high-handed big media sneering at "anonymous bloggers" though...
by AZ Snake Pit on Jun 9, 2006 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Colby Rasmus Interview
by GatewayRedbirds on Jun 9, 2006 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Colby Interview
by BigJawnMize on Jun 9, 2006 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mihlfeld says it isnt him
he trainer said both Grimsley and Grimsley's attorney told him he was not in the document. Edward Novak, a Phoenix criminal defense lawyer representing the pitcher, didn't immediately return a voice mail and an e-mail seeking comment.
by dmb60614 on Jun 9, 2006 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great article
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a mess...
by sdrone on Jun 9, 2006 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, if Mihlfeld says that
by cmat on Jun 9, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The quote from deadspin reads
by cmat on Jun 9, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don't really have a confirmation...
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't really blame the media for reporting
by rob is back on Jun 9, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to go...
by robdouth on Jun 12, 2006 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pure speculation...
by dmb60614 on Jun 9, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It won't surprise me at all
I used to say the same thing about McGwire, with his numbers and everything. I mean in his rookie year, he hit 49 home runs. So I didn't think that his record breaking year was of any surprise. But Bonds, on the other hand, didn't hit any more that 39 (I believe) homeruns in a season until he hit 73. That immediately raised up a white flag. McGwire still remains my favorite player to ever play the game. I am in the TLR school of thought that he was just "over-coached" on his testimony in the Congressional joke....I mean hearing.
by BigdJC on Jun 9, 2006 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ok
This whole mess reminds me of this saying "you know what they say about assuiming? it makes a A*& out of you and me.
by punchinjudy on Jun 9, 2006 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel has knee surgery
Knee surgery will keep him out for season.
by ibby001 on Jun 9, 2006 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's his secret identity
Kind of like Samuel L. Jackson in Unbreakale ...
by dontEATnachos on Jun 9, 2006 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have meaning now...
by robdouth on Jun 9, 2006 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to those
by punchinjudy on Jun 9, 2006 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ Burnett to sign with Cardinals
Sorry. That was just a knee jerk reaction to all this "80% sure," and "inside sources" talk. I had a flasback to December....
by flynn on Jun 9, 2006 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs



















