red ridden

by lboros on Jun 6, 2006 8:27 AM EDT in News Comment 48 comments

beaten by esteban yan -- that's the worst part of it. . . .

it's a bad loss, no question; a terrible one, made all the more painful by the circumstances. it was shaping up as such a satisfying win, chapter two of the let's-all-pull-together story they began writing on sunday. so it feels like they lost more than one game; they lost some good mojo, too. a stunning blow, but the cardinals will shake it off. of greater significance, in my opinion, is the effect of that late-inning reversal upon the reds. a comeback like that can make a team believe. instead of dragging ass back to the clubhouse muttering we outhit 'em, we punished the ball for 9 innings, they're undermanned, and they STILL beat us . . . , the reds can instead tell themselves: we kept battling, banging on the door, until we finally busted it down. we can beat these guys. cincinnati now has a "play a hard 9" moment, a rallying cry; that may prove to be the most costly thing about last night's defeat.

having said that, i still have a hard time believing the reds are serious threats to win the division. they're 9th in the league in pitching, with a shaky rotation and an even worse bullpen. they have allowed the 2d-highest home-run total in the nl and committed the 2d-highest number of errors -- oh, and they're 14th in the league in double plays. pitching and defense, they ain't got. . . . right? no, i guess they don't. but since may 1, they have posted a 4.10 era to the cards' 4.25. . . . . .and taking the season as a whole, they have allowed the league's fewest walks and are 1st in k/w ratio. last night's win leaves them 22-12 against nl central foes; the cardinals are now a woeful 14-15. and cincinnati has the league's best road record, at 18-13.

nah, still not buying it; not yet. show me.

i've been a defender of isringhausen, but these last two blown saves have me concerned. he's lost the feel for his cut fastball again; same problem that plagued him the 1st week of the season. he quickly got the pitch under control back then, but his command has been eroding over the last couple of weeks and it has returned to crisis proportions. last night he was missing consistently to the 1st-base side of the plate -- ie, missing outside to right-handed hitters and inside to lefties. and missing badly. on the 3-2 to aurilia, molina set up on the inside corner, but the pitch was a foot outside. on the 3-2 to junior, yadi set up on the same corner -- the 3d-base corner, calling for an outside pitch to the left-handed griffey -- and jason missed to the right again, threw it straight down the middle. seems like that should be a correctable problem, but they've already been through one round of corrections . . . .

check out his postgame remarks at the official site. that's a frustrated pitcher.

combining this year with last, when his control first emerged as a problem, izzy has walked 50 guys in his last 82 innings pitched, or 5.5 men per 9 innings. that's about twice the walk rate (2.9 per 9) he posted in his first three years with the cardinals. in part, the inflated total reflects jason's recently adopted pitch-around-em m.o., but he wasn't pitching around anyone last night; he simply couldn't find the plate.

he has had only four 1-2-3 innings all season.

all four of izzy's blown saves have come against divisional foes -- 2 vs the cubs, one each vs the reds and pirates. as a group, the bullpen has blown 7 saves this year -- all within the nl central. which, all by itself, explains the team's lousy record in the division.

hey, here's an interesting item: the official site lists marquis as friday's starter; that should be mulder's turn. the starter for saturday is named as "to be determined." i wonder what's up. mulder's back, you'll recall, flared up on him in april. maybe he's hurt.

maybe he's being traded . . . . .

Update [2006-6-6 11:36:9 by lboros]: they've updated the site as of 10:30 a.m. CDT -- mulder is now listed as saturday's starter, meaning he's going on 7 days' rest. marquis remains listed as friday's starter, which means he essentially is hop-frogging mulder in the rotation. [end update]

saturday would be the natural turn for anthony reyes, who pitched last night and threw 6 innings of 1-run ball against new orleans; allowed 4 hits (one a dinger), walked 1, struck out 5.

the amateur draft takes place today, and i'll have a separate thread going on the diary sidebar, with updates as available.

0 recs | Comment 48 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

most intriguing

Even before you posted that item about the Saturday starter, I was intrigued by this, the last sentence in the P-D article on Carpenter return from the DL:

When asked what the move could be, La Russa
offered only the tease that his conversations
with the front office had revealed a "move that
I hadn't expected being available."

I've been scratching my head to think of what this might possibly be. I was thinking maybe that it had something to do with Spiezio's return (thus easing the excruciating pain of returning Timo to AAA), though I doubted that even Tony the Communicator would have learned about Spiezio's condition from the front office.

Could we be trading away a starting pitcher, clearing a spot for Reyes? If so, Reyes wouldn't have to be called up right away. Of course, one would hope we're adding a major leaguer in return, but perhaps what TLR is getting at is: "Once we get Abreu/Green/Wilson, I won't feel so bad about sending Timo back to AAA."

It's all tea leaves, but one needs hope after a night like last night.

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Jun 6, 2006 8:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that line in the p-d

does make it sound like a trade's in the works, doesn't it?

i have sent out feelers to a couple of my spies . . .

by lboros on Jun 6, 2006 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade?

doesnt seem like a trade to me. i think they would be keeping it a little more secret. doesnt make sense, and doesnt seem in character, for them to announce a change in starting pitcher on saturday before a trade is final. they usually keep that stuff wrapped up pretty tight. i'm putting my money on the mulder injury/reyes call up theory.

by dmb60614 on Jun 6, 2006 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OTOH

They could be saying either Reyes or a new Cardinal will pitch.

Or they could be saying crap, and all this Dew is getting to me.

by sdrone on Jun 6, 2006 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the quote in context....

didnt really seem to have anything to do with the pitching situation.

The scheduled move was to place Edmonds on the 15-day disabled list, but his ability to play first base means another move is forthcoming. Scott Spiezio, whose throat inflammation makes him a candidate for a retroactive DL assignment, was at the ballpark Monday and planned to be available to hit. When asked what the move could be, La Russa offered only the tease that his conversations with the front office had revealed a "move that I hadn't expected being available."

maybe its something stupid like activating ankiel.

by dmb60614 on Jun 6, 2006 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wouldn't have to be about pitching...

Trade Mulder for a bat, like Cabrera (doubtful) or Soriano (increasing rumors).

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mulder is of no use

to the marlins (cabrera) or the nationals (soriano). those are rebuilding teams; they want young, cheap players. an expensive free-agent-to-be like mulder is of zero interest to those teams. they wouldn't give us a bucket of balls for mulder, much less a good player

by lboros on Jun 6, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would imagine any trade wouldn't involve

Mulder staying in either of those places:

Cards: Mulder and minor leaguer
Nationals or Marlins: Cabrera or Soriano (not that I think either is happening)
Third team: Minor league prospects

Cards get whatever Star bat, Nationals or Marlins get the prospects, Third team gets Mulder.

Know what I mean?

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that could work

might be only way to move this guy

by lboros on Jun 6, 2006 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason it peaked my interest..

..is because for some reason I remember reading in the past two weeks that the Cardinals and Yankees are the only two team actively interested in Soriano...may have even been Buster Olney reporting it. Anyways, with the Post-Dispatch also saying the Cardinals may be working a 3 team deal for Willis, I just began to wonder if you combine the two rumors, the Cards may be working with a team that needs pitching but has prospects, the Marlins or the Nationals and themselves for a Mulder/Star Bat or Willis/prospects shuffle.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Craig Wilson

I hope to god that this isnt the move. Craig Wilson is not that good. I would much rather see Kevin Mench in the mix. He's only hitting .273 with marginal power (He's on pace for 27 HRs this year). He also is a defensive liability. He started as a catcher, then was moved to first base, and is now in the OF. No thanks. Not to mention I heard that their asking price would be Reyes. Reyes for Wilson? No thanks!

by BigMac545 on Jun 6, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd much rather see a pitcher.

The game scores lately are nuts.

by sdrone on Jun 6, 2006 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is why...

I have a problem giving a big long-term contract to any reliever not named Rivera. They are just too unpredictable from year to year and relievers are already overpriced in the market as it is. Izzy is making 8.75M this year and next, according to BP he is only worth 3.025M even if he hits his PECOTA projection of 3.56 ERA with about a 2/1 K/BB ratio. So even if performs to expectations and we bump what he is "worth" up to 5M to account for everyone else overpaying relievers he is way overpayed.

I think the smart thing to do is devote more mid-round draft picks to guys that project as relievers and grow your own for the most part. Let the other teams overpay for relievers while we devote more free agent dollars to other areas.

by mikedallas23 on Jun 6, 2006 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Bullpens shouldn't cost more than 10 million total. Drafting guys in round 4 on that could fill the bulpen seems to be a good strategy for resource allocation. Notice Oakland, Boston, and Texas have used late first round pick on college closers that made it to the show quickly. This also appears like a good thing to do every three or four.

by BigJawnMize on Jun 6, 2006 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velocity and control

That is really all you need for a closer. young arms bounce back quicker. There is no need to invest so much in a closer. but I really like Izzy. I hope the big guy can bounce back and get his control back. And Fast.

by Schnake on Jun 6, 2006 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But if we don't HAVE the draft picks

to FILL the bullpen, we have to pay up.....

by sdrone on Jun 6, 2006 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Am I cursed?

Seems like everytime I get a chance to see the Cardinals on TV, I watch Izzy play especially poor. If anyone feels like doing some meaningless statistical analysis, tell if there is a correlation between the way Izzy plays and if the game can be viewed in Cincinnati.

by CincyCard on Jun 6, 2006 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Can't we just make Wainwright the closer?

and demote Izzy to middle-reliever?

by craig3410 on Jun 6, 2006 9:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't know about that move

psychologically speaking. true, izzy needs to be smacked upside the head with a first basemen's glove, but it might spook wainwright. we need that guy in the rotation next year (this year?); making him closer this year adds uncertainty to that possibility.

by gthedamned on Jun 6, 2006 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's Stop the Crazy Talk

Every team goes into a season with some elements that are fixed, and some that are in flux. Every team hopes that its fixed elements will allow it to complete, and that any elements that it has in flux can be altered to make the team even better.

We need to face facts: Izzy is a fixed element on our team. We cannot "fix" the closer slot until the off season. The reason is simple. If we have to expend resources fixing the closer slot, we won't be able to patch up our other glaring holes. The bottom line: If Izzy fails, we scap 2006 and start looking forward to '07.

Wainwright's not a closer. We don't have any other closers. That's why Izzy is a "fixed" component of this team.

Now let's just hope that our "fixed" component can fix himself in time for the next save opportunity.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jun 6, 2006 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well stated dude

they'll sink or swim with izzy. i still think he'll hold it together, but am less confident of that than i was a week ago . . . .

by lboros on Jun 6, 2006 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally agree... unlikely Izzy will be replaced

The Cards will not replace Izzy unless he totally falls off a cliff. 18 saves in 22 chances is not great but not horrible either. However, the walks and HRs are a big concern. Wainwright should remain as a setup man in the bullpen.

Let's just hope that Izzy gets it together for the playoffs (If we even make the playoffs. I'm trying to stay positive).

I would much rather have Izzy pitching well in Oct than June.

by jdubya on Jun 6, 2006 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Closer

Wainwright's not a closer. We don't have any other closers. That's why Izzy is a "fixed" component of this team.

-----

I agree Wainwright is no closer, but we do have Braden Looper who was a closer for the past 2 or 3 seasons with the Mets. Just an option.

by lopey986 on Jun 6, 2006 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you think Izzy gives you heartburn...

just make Looper the closer. His platoon split vs. lefties could be beaten by a double-A callup.

by Matt on Jun 6, 2006 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Familiarity breeds...

Izzy seems to struggle more against Central teams. I have heard people talk about the fact that the current unbalanced schedule leads to too much familiarity. How many times over the last few years have hitters like Barrett faced Izzy? I'm not sure if this is empircally correct, but I think there may be something to it. Izzy's real problem, as LBoros pointed out, seems to be control, but I just wonder if that is somehow exacerbated by the fact that these hitters really have the book on him.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 6, 2006 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good point

See Mariano Rivera vs. Boston.

by flynn on Jun 6, 2006 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

control

and just bad pitching.How come he doesn't just walk Griffey.I was at the game and everyone was like full count don't give him anything to hit throw a curve in the dirt, pitch to Dunn.You don't let a guy like griff get a chance like that at least Dunn could K.I have no clue what the anwsers are if we don't start playing good baseball soon were gonna be in trouble.Last night all started with Pooper giving up base hits and letting them back in.Our bullpen is falling apart.I mean the 8th,9th guys are suppose to shut em down.I've defended izzy in the past but i think i'm done.Izzy can be good but then look like poop.I give it three weeks and if we a falling you got to retool or revise this roster its like every other team we had in the past execpt 04 in terms of offense always a starter short.We need a solid #2 and power outfielder to win its that easy.

by sportsmanspark78 on Jun 6, 2006 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

irony

Jason Isringhausen named winner of the "DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Month" for May

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060606&content_id=1490824& ;vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

by Elle on Jun 6, 2006 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The maddening thing

about Izzy is that it's so hard to tell his "good" outings from his bad ones. For instance, last night's 9th was standard-issue Izzy up until that pitch to Griffey. If he had gotten out of that jam it would have been just another day at the office for our guy.

Iboros, I'd love to see a breakdown of how many 1-2-3 innings Izzy has pitched in a Cardinal uniform. We could even give him the benefit of the doubt and look instead at complete innings in which he faced only 3 hitters, i.e., so that would include cases where he put a man on but got a DP. I'm betting his 3-hitter innings constitutes no more than 1/4 of the total.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 6, 2006 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let me put it this way...

...if Mulder isn't traded by Saturday, I'll be left asking why yet again we have him pitching on Saturday, the worst day of the week for him.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

probably

for that very reason. got to maximize his ineffectiveness you know.

The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on Jun 6, 2006 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why

would they trade mulder? and why would we replace izzy? I think they central comment is right on with famliararity(spelling)...Id live and die with izzy i think there are more glaring issues right now

by punchinjudy on Jun 6, 2006 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Because of all the pitchers to trade...

...Mulder makes the most sense because we very likely won't be resigning him,especially if he is traded for another 'star' level player.

At this point in the season, Reyes and Suppan are just as effective as Mulder is. Sure, Mulder has shown he can be better than he has in recent outings, but when's he going to get back to that?

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As bad as that loss felt...

it shouldn't cause us or the team to give up anything. That was Izzy's loss. The team played well--seven runs on seven hits is usually a victory and they know it. It does make me even more nervous about Izzy (is that possible?), but the offense is not collapsing ala Chicago (at least not yet--admittedly two games isn't much to go on). But as long as they keep scoring runs, I'm not gonna get too worked up. And it does sound like some kinda help may be on the way.

by rockin redbird on Jun 6, 2006 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I am more concerned about the Pitching

I was pretty worried about the hitting but now I am really startng to worry about our Pitching across the board. No one seems to be doing that good as they were in the begining of the season.

I miss Carpenter tons right now. God, I just want Reyes to pitch too. He is shown he could be our #2. Which I don't even consinder it a good thing just how bad everyone else has been. Ponson number 3.

How sad is that? The 3 guys battling for the #5 starter position are all having fine years. But #2,#3,#4 and pitching like complete crap to the tune of

1.35 SO/BB, 4.28 K/9, WHIP 1.4, 4.92 ERA, 20/36 GS, that are 18-12 in 225.1 IP

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 6, 2006 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

First round pick

We just took Adam Ottavino RHP from Northeastern University

by BigMac545 on Jun 6, 2006 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

with all the

ups and downs and the bumpas and bruises if they cards stay afloat and do something i think TLR could be in line for Mangaer of year honors...i know its early but this is reminding me of 02

by punchinjudy on Jun 6, 2006 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dont jump of cliffs yet

the home plate ump was retarded..izzy was being squeezed, suppan was being squeezed, but to be fair to the ump he was squeezing the reds pitchers as well.

the score coulda been 25-24 because the pitchers had to throw everything right down the middle to even get a chance at a call...

worst strike zone i seen all season..

by 2ndprize on Jun 6, 2006 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The only place it was consistent...

...is where Izzy tried to throw that slider, before it tailed back in.

make a 4 x 4 box and put out just off the black on both sides of the plate and that was the strike zone. You get it there and you get a called strike. Otherwise, everything else was a ball.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 6, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

p.s.

TLR should have gotten manager of the year last year..dan or al on FSN mentioned a stat, and it was something like we only had rolen edmonds and pujols in the lineup together last year 43 times or some shit..

thats crazy..

we won a 100 games with 1/3 to 1/2 the lineup triple AAA memphis guys and bench players..thats managing..something like 17 succesful squeeze bunts too?

by 2ndprize on Jun 6, 2006 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I believe the Cards can overcome the temporary lose of Pujols, unlike the Cubs who fell flat on their face when Lee went down. We are a FAR better organization and have much better management!

by BGFOOT17 on Jun 6, 2006 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs